I'm trying to redo things in my HT a bit and need some help. I have Macs in the house so when considering a HTPC, Mac Mini is my first choice, but not sure of what the limitations are, especially for what I want to do.

Currently, I have a TiVo Series 3 HD, PS3 and Tvix 4100-SH (http://www.tvix.co.kr/Eng/products/4100sh.aspx) solely for video streaming, all hooked up to a Denon AVR-3808CI, which connects to a Pioneer PDP-505CMX 1080i display. The Denon does the switching of sources.

The TiVo can do Netflix, Amazon downloads, YouTube and does them well. We use the PS3 for Blu-Ray and games, and the TVIX for streaming movies. I have all my DVDs ripped to a RAID 0 setup that is connected to my iMac and the TVIX attaches to it via NFS and streams them. The TVIX also allows me to stream HD content with some limitations on the content package type.

I WISH there was a way to have one unit that could handle all these things together, but alas, that isn't to be. So my goal is to replace the TVIX with something that will stream this content, but give me some other abilities, such as better iTunes playing than the TiVo, photos and slide shows, Internet browsing and having the movies directly connected to the storage device (the streaming works just fine, but would be nice to have things self contained). I'm sure there are other things I could do with Mini, but at this point I don't know what.

My questions are:

1) what is the minimum spec for a Mac Mini that I would need to get regarding processor and memory?

2) what is the limit on video output of the Mac Mini over the DVI port? Would I be able to get 1080i out of it cleanly with no jerkiness, etc.?

3) what options other than FrontRow are there for controlling things? I don't keep my photos in iPhoto (I use Adobe Lightroom), so would need something to just browse a directory.

4) I have read here that with a simple adapter, you can get optical audio from a Mac Mini allowing for Dolby Digital and DTS. Is this all that is needed? What is the minimum model Mac Mini this option/feature is on?

5) what limitations are there in using a Mac Mini that I need to keep in mind as I consider doing this?

I'm sure there are things I need to consider that I haven't asked about, so please feel free to fill in any blanks. Thanks in advance for your help!

Scott

Scott, short quick answer: since you're keeping the Tivo and PS3 in place and really just looking to swap a Mac in for the TViX, I don't think you'll have much of a problem.

I WISH there was a way to have one unit that could handle all these things together, but alas, that isn't to be.

Some of us very happily use a Mac instead of a cable DVR/Tivo S3 to record HD, and if that were the case you'd probably want something better than a Mini to handle recording and glitch-free playback of multiple QAM/ATSC programs...even so, you're right about the blu-ray situation...

So my goal is to replace the TVIX with something that will stream this content, but give me some other abilities, such as better iTunes playing than the TiVo, photos and slide shows, Internet browsing and having the movies directly connected to the storage device

but since you're keeping the Tivo, any of the C2D models will handle things like ripped dvds, iTunes, Front Row, alternatives like Plex, playback of most 720p torrents, etc and in a Mac OS X environment it will certainly network and share much more seamlessly, requiring much less "user maintenance" than any of those no-name media players.

One quick observation, though, RAID 0 is risky, unwise and completely unnecessary for media storage, but if you're stuck for the moment with an enclosure that just gives you the option of RAID 0 or 1, and not better options like JBOD or Span, connecting it locally to your mini should work out for you just fine as well. You'll have to assess whether the added noise in the HT would be a factor, it's nice when storage like that is tucked away somewhere.

My questions are:

1) what is the minimum spec for a Mac Mini that I would need to get regarding processor and memory?

2) what is the limit on video output of the Mac Mini over the DVI port? Would I be able to get 1080i out of it cleanly with no jerkiness, etc.?

The current C2D minis haven't been updated in 1.5 years--yes, you read that correctly, 1.5 years--are underpowered, RAM limited, still have "g" wireless, weak GMA950 graphics, slow hard drives and crappy optical drives. However, since you're not planning to game with it or need it to play back high def content, any CD or C2D mini will meet your needs. If you happen to find a great deal on an older used mini, it will do every bit as good a job, say, with dvd playback, as the newest model.

Standard advice applies, there may be a new mini/device lurking right around the corner, so if you can wait, wait. But some folks here have been waiting for years already...

The second question isn't easy to answer, unfortunately; plenty of Mini owners connect directly to 1080i displays just fine but you might have a problem, not least of which is because you're planning to go through your Denon. You won't know for sure until you try it, or unless someone with that hardware weighs in. But, it's theoretically possible to do it, some users here DO go through their AVR and connect to 1080i displays on the other side. It also won't make a difference which C2D mini you get, they all have the same GMA950.

3) what options other than FrontRow are there for controlling things? I don't keep my photos in iPhoto (I use Adobe Lightroom), so would need something to just browse a directory

3) Of the alternatives like Plex, Boxee and XMBC, Plex gets the most love within this forum. I happily use Front Row because my priorities are a working EyeTV plugin and handling music and iTS better. But this scene is in flux...

4) I have read here that with a simple adapter, you can get optical audio from a Mac Mini allowing for Dolby Digital and DTS. Is this all that is needed? What is the minimum model Mac Mini this option/feature is on?

Every Intel mini has optical audio built-in and the adaptor is a few bucks. But, the AC-3/DTS passthrough issue is slightly more complicated, kind of like connecting to a particular display or going through an AVR. The good thing, for you, is that it doesn't matter which model you get, if you're gonna have a problem with a particular file or container or software or Quicktime or Perian or Front Row et al, you'd have it with every mini. For the most part, though, if you stick to Apple dvd player app and VLC, you won't have any AC-3/DTS issues...there are some Front Row/Quicktime/Perian issues, but these are out of our control (and much discussed elsewhere.)

5) what limitations are there in using a Mac Mini that I need to keep in mind as I consider doing this?

None that I can think of, beside the very well known limitations:

1) that in terms of value and performance, now isn't a good time to buy new,
2) that the wireless is "g" and not "n" (admittedly not an issue if you can run gigabit,)
3) that you do risk damaging the mini opening it up to put RAM and upgrade the drive,
4) there's no way to upgrade the GMA950

These limitations are also why some of use a Macbook instead: full 4GB RAM support, "n" wireless, ridiculously easy access for hard drive and RAM upgrades and better graphics than the GMA950. But, in your situation, if you really truly plan to keep the Tivo S3 and PS3, and don't harbor any hopes that your Mac could do more than what you stated, a Macbook like this would be overkill for you.

Still, if I were in your shoes, and right now was thinking about buying a mini as my first choice, unless I found a great deal on a mini that I couldn't refuse, I'd either 1) wait some more, 2) buy the best Mac home theater value going, also known as a white Macbook with the 9400M or 3) buy an AppleTV. Basically anything besides a mini.

Tremendous amount of info, thanks!

My frustration is that because of the DRM crap, people are afraid to build one unit that will do it all. It wouldn't be that difficult. I actually like the TiVo for what it does, how easy it is to find and record shows, etc. But, if you want to archive a show, or watch something you have recorded or ripped from other source, it just won't do that. If they would allow you to stream stuff from another source I think I would be good for quite a while. Netflix streams and doesn't store it locally, so it is possible, they just don't want the legal issues I guess.

The TVIX has been ok, and was the only device at the time that would handle the content. I got this about the time the first Apple TV came out and at that time, it wouldn't do digital output (that I was aware of) and anything you watched HAD to be stored on it's harddrive. These things may have changed and I need to do a little research.

The problem is that the TVIX isn't as robust as I would like and it has issues on occasion of rebooting for unknown reasons (I think it has to do with NFS but not sure). So I started looking into what other options I had.

While we use the PS3 for games as well as BR, having it hooked up to the 50" with surround sound means the kids come take over the room on occasion which is ok to a point. Having something else to play BR and moving the PS3 to another room wouldn't be an issue (other than having to get another TV/monitor).

As for recording content, my TiVo has 2 tuners which is quite nice. But there are occasions where there are 3 things on at the same time, so having a HTPC that could record HD content, it would be a bonus.

From what you are saying, I should probably look at a white Macbook (what is the exact model or spec? what should I expect to pay?) so I can have some future expansion abilities if I need them.

Overall, it seems there is no exact answer, but I am used to being on the bleeding edge and am quite the geek at heart, so playing and trying to get things working is fun. But the end solution has to be pretty straight forward for the family or they give me evil looks every time they turn things on or have to ask me how to get something (for now, I have a Universal MX-900 remote I have programmed so they can select "watch Tivo" or "watch movies" and it does all the switching for them).

So I guess I need to get some more info on what the Apple TV could do for me and it's limitations, and also look at what a Macbook would cost and what additional things I could do with that (other than having a full blown Mac hooked up to a 50" monitor)

I actually like the TiVo for what it does, how easy it is to find and record shows, etc. But, if you want to archive a show, or watch something you have recorded or ripped from other source, it just won't do that. If they would allow you to stream stuff from another source I think I would be good for quite a while.

Agree totally, back in the day I loved my Series 2 Tivos, got my whole family hooked on them, changed the way we all watched TV, and spoiled us with a simple user friendly interface. As soon as Comcast started offering HD and we got our first HDTV, though, Tivo didn't have a product for us. (And as it turned out wouldn't have one for years...) That's when I turned to the Mac for high def, found out about EyeTV and discovered that Mac users had already been recording HD over firewire right from their cable boxes, and having a whole lot more success at it than Windows PC users trying the same. Once I made that decision, it seemed a natural evolution to start using the Mac for other things in the HT as well, I used Airport Expresses to stream Apple lossless around the house, gradually putting a Mac everywhere in the house that had a TV and wiring everything up over gigabit. Recent developments like an improved aTV and using an iPod touch with the remote app to control iTunes are just icing on an already nice cake.

It's gotten more complicated since then, no doubt, we're still behind the blu-ray curve, and decent download & streaming models aren't quite here yet, but I find I'm happier with a Mac OS X household where the Mac is a hub rather than hoping for more functionality from or a firmware update for any other single device. Things can change so quickly, that by the time some long-desired feature is added, like Tivo to Go for Mac, you've probably already moved on to an alternative because we're an impatient society.

As for recording content, my TiVo has 2 tuners which is quite nice. But there are occasions where there are 3 things on at the same time, so having a HTPC that could record HD content, it would be a bonus

well, with an iMac you already have the ability to plug a tuner into it, but yes, there are rare times two tuners aren't enough...at the moment we have 4 connected to our Macs, 3 firewire and 1 USB, and archive sharing is pretty effortless with EyeTV. Plus I also record high def content over firewire that isn't clear QAM and so isn't available to the El Gato tuners, things like Mad Men, Burn Notice and Battlestar Galactica. You're probably already getting these just fine with a CableCARD Tivo, but besides the HDCP and DRM issues, what always annoyed me, probably irrationally so, were the attempts by the cablecos and device manufacturers cutting deals with content providers to restrict what I could do with these recordings. So, starting years ago, just about every decision I made was guided by the principle that I wanted to be able move "my" content around, get it on and off devices at my whim, around the house and take it on the road with me if I so desired. I'm sure I'm in the minority on that, though...

From what you are saying, I should probably look at a white Macbook (what is the exact model or spec? what should I expect to pay?) so I can have some future expansion abilities if I need them.

well, what I'm really saying is just don't lie to yourself--a $400-500 mini could do a nice job for you for the time being, there are plenty of perfectly happy mini users here, but don't settle for a mini now, which can barely keep pace, if you really hope to assign more challenging tasks to it. The MB I'm using at the moment is the 2.0 C2D Santa Rosa from Oct 2007, that was the first NOT to have the GMA950. It or anything since would be fine for you--and while taken in isolation the X3100 is only nominally better than the GMA950--it's the current white MB with the 9400M that's a significant jump forward. If you find that as a refurb that's the way to go. Yes, that's several hundred more than a mini, but you'd make it all back on resale.

So, starting years ago, just about every decision I made was guided by the principle that I wanted to be able move "my" content around, get it on and off devices at my whim, around the house and take it on the road with me if I so desired. I'm sure I'm in the minority on that, though...
This is EXACTLY where I am right now. Though I love my TiVo, it is a royal PAIN to try to do anything with it. I can download it to my Mac using Toast, and burn to a disk. But if I want to edit to take out commercials and then store in a particular format to watch again later, or if I want to put on my MBPro to watch upstairs or to put on an iPod, I have to jump through so many hoops that I just never do it.

As for cable companies, we gave up on them. We just get over the air HD stuff with an antenna in the attic because we got tired of Comcast and others pricing and such. Cuts down a bit on what we can get, but with Netflix, we fill the gaps by getting stuff we like such as MythBusters, Dirty Jobs, etc. Still not a complete solution, but works for us and we aren't willing to pay what Comcast and others want.

That being the case, it might work that I record stuff I want to keep on a MB setup, the rest on the TiVo. But I can see how this would drive me and the family nuts trying to remember where a particular program is stored. It's just frustrating that there isn't something to blend all the different stuff together (a front end that would talk to the other units and play whatever it is that you wanted; or a single place that all content was stored regardless of what recorded it, but I know I am dreaming).

The MB I'm using at the moment is the 2.0 C2D Santa Rosa from Oct 2007
If I am looking on eBay or elsewhere, what is the key thing that would let me know if the MB has the GMA950, X3100 or 9400M? I'll start looking just to see what kind of a deal I can find. Worst case I would use it to replace one of the Windows machines the kids use if I don't use it for HT.

It sounds like my biggest hurdle is that I am pretty "married" to my TiVo. If that weren't the case, I could do most everything on a MB and be done with it. Just not sure I am willing to give up the luxury of the TiVo.

Ugh, it's not easy being picky.... ;)

Hey, just a thought. I have a MB Pro that I use for work. While it has an ATI x1600 video setup (I'm assuming that would be better than the 9400M), it might still give me an idea of how things would work with minimal purchases required to try it out. What would you recommend I get/do to create a "proof of concept" setup? And how would you do it?

If I am looking on eBay or elsewhere, what is the key thing that would let me know if the MB has the GMA950, X3100 or 9400M? I'll start looking just to see what kind of a deal I can find.

that's exactly it, look for the graphics, anything but the GMA950. Do Apple online refurb, which carries the same 1 year warranty and Applecare eligibility as new, and Craigslist, which allows you to check the machine out personally, over eBay. Check a site like this to match up specifics of the models:

http://www.lowendmac.com/macbookpro/macbook-index.html

It's just frustrating that there isn't something to blend all the different stuff together (a front end that would talk to the other units and play whatever it is that you wanted; or a single place that all content was stored regardless of what recorded it, but I know I am dreaming)

This is the clarion call of the HTPC.

Just not sure I am willing to give up the luxury of the TiVo.

I wouldn't give it up, keep it since it's a great device and you've already paid the up front cost.

I have a MB Pro that I use for work. While it has an ATI x1600 video setup (I'm assuming that would be better than the 9400M), it might still give me an idea of how things would work with minimal purchases required to try it out. What would you recommend I get/do to create a "proof of concept" setup?

That would still do nicely in the HT. Performance-wise, it's roughly comparable to the Santa Rosa/Penryn Macbooks. It's all you need for a similar proof of concept, you can do closed lid, use Front Row, install Perian, share the screen and stream from the iMac, test your RAID enclosure, see how limiting g wireless is, etc.

it has an ATI x1600 video setup...I'm assuming that would be better than the 9400M

No, the 9400M is the same mobile graphics in the unibody MB and MBPs...

No, the 9400M is the same mobile graphics in the unibody MB and MBPs...
Apple site says my MBP has the ATI X1600, though not sure it matters.

I'm going to pick up a DVI to HDMI adapter and give things a shot.

Is gma950 really a factor in htpc? Plex, boxee, vlc and frontrow don't use any gpu acceleration, right? New models with 9400 and c2d@2Gig would seem to perform about the same.

a front end that would talk to the other units and play whatever it is that you wanted; or a single place that all content was stored regardless of what recorded it, but I know I am dreaming).Not dreaming - there are several PVR solutions out there that 1) use the frontend/backend concept and 2) work with Macs. Probably the best known is MythTV. It does exactly what you describe - gives you a single place to store all of your content (recorded shows/ripped DVDs/music/photos) and lets you use it wherever you want. I currently have 3 OS X frontends that point at a single backend stuffed full of TB drives in a RAID.

I personally prefer iTunes over Myth's music interface, but that's not an issue. The Macs mount the music directory on the server as a NFS and all of the iTunes' libraries point there.

It sounds like my biggest hurdle is that I am pretty "married" to my TiVo. If that weren't the case, I could do most everything on a MB and be done with it. Just not sure I am willing to give up the luxury of the TiVo.How married are you to that monthly TiVo bill? Particularly since you're receiving your content OTA, switching to your own PVR means your total monthly bill would be, oh, about $0.00. And you've already pointed out the restrictions TiVo places on your content...

The $599 model will work fine, but another $400 will upgrade the processor, graphics, memory, and drive. Mine is on order.

Is gma950 really a factor in htpc? Plex, boxee, vlc and frontrow don't use any gpu acceleration, right? New models with 9400 and c2d@2Gig would seem to perform about the same.

I agree. I have started to do some research as I have the option to buy a friends older generation Core 2 Duo Mini (2.0GhZ and 2GB RAM) with GMA950 graphics. I'm using my MBP (2.4GhZ, Santa Rosa, Nvidia 8600M GT with 256MB) to drive my Epson 6500UB 1080p projector, but I want the Mini to take over.

The MBP clearly runs decently high cpu (80% to 100% of one core) when watching Hulu 480P, Fox On Demand "HD" and EyeTV OTA recorded 720p/1080i content. It's quite clear it's not using the GPU for much for Flash or MPEG-2 decoding. As far as I understand, Apple has still not released (maybe Snow Leopard???) any APIs for using the GPU to decode MPEG-2 or h.264, even if your GPU has support.

Anyway, I'm going to have my friend try a few tests to make sure his Mini is up to the task. He only has a 720p DLP, but I'll try to see what we can arrange. In the meantime, let's look at some requirements:

Hulu HD (http://www.hulu.com/support) (720p flash videos)
Macintosh: Intel Core Duo 1.83GHz or faster processor, 256MB of RAM, 64MB of VRAM

Elgato's EyeTV 3.1 requirements (http://elgato.com/elgato/na/mainmenu/products/software/EyeTV3/product3.en.html):
Note: 720p or 1080i HD features require a Dual PowerPC G5 or an Intel Core Duo processor.

Apple iTunes HD support (http://www.apple.com/itunes/download/)
Playing HD-quality videos purchased on the iTunes Store requires a 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo or faster processor
512MB of RAM; 1GB is required to play HD-quality videos
Playing videos also requires at least 16MB of video RAM

Note the conspicuous lack of GPU requirements!

Now... If you want to play a 3D game like the World of Warcraft, you are out of luck with the GMA 950, even with the Core 2 Duo. Framerates are competitive with my PowerBook G4, which is to say, "teh suck" :) But my assumption is 720p/1080i content should be fine, and I've seen reports on other forums of Macbook's with GMA950 playing H.264 1080p content (at unknown bitrates) without trouble.

Not to distract from a lot of the other great advice, but I'm not sure the anti-GMA 950 business is warranted. But I'll check back in if my friend says his Mini fails any real world tests :)

But my assumption is 720p/1080i content should be fine, and I've seen reports on other forums of Macbook's with GMA950 playing H.264 1080p content (at unknown bitrates) without trouble.

Depends on the software--users with that Macbook have reported Plex can handle some downloaded 1080p content just fine, so on that front you should be OK. You're making an incorrect assumption on the 1080i content, though, at least with respect to EyeTV.

Not to distract from a lot of the other great advice, but I'm not sure the anti-GMA 950 business is warranted. But I'll check back in if my friend says his Mini fails any real world tests

No need to check with your friend.

Anyway, I'm going to have my friend try a few tests to make sure his Mini is up to the task.

Again, no need to check with your friend, plenty of us have that exact system and have been reporting "real world advice" for years--before those other forums even existed.

Elgato's EyeTV 3.1 requirements:
Note: 720p or 1080i HD features require a Dual PowerPC G5 or an Intel Core Duo processor.

Have you ever used EyeTV yourself? This is just to record and run the software. EyeTV needs a much more powerful CPU to handle high def at its best deinterlace setting.

Core 2 Duo Mini (2.0GhZ and 2GB RAM) with GMA950 graphics

This mini with a GMA 950 can't play back 720p/1080i QAM and ATSC content at EyeTV's best deinterlace setting without skipping frames. Period, end of story. I know, I had this exact Macbook for a year in the HT. The minute you step up to a Mac with any other graphics, even the X3100, bingo, your problems disappear. It might be the faster FSB or the support for a full 4GB RAM helping, but the fact that the X3100 uses 144 MB of main memory (versus 80 MB with the GMA 950) made a noticeable performance difference.

The newest mini, even without acceleration, will provide a similar boost to EyeTV, right now and in the foreseeable future, since EyeTV is just going to get more bloated and more CPU hungry.

Unless your friend is offering you a very sweet deal, a deal you can't refuse, like $300, you'll probably regret getting that mini with the GMA 950, and likely want to replace it within the first 6 months. When Snow Leopard comes out, wouldn't you prefer to be able to grow with it rather than be left behind?

This mini with a GMA 950 can't play back 720p/1080i QAM and ATSC content at EyeTV's best deinterlace setting without skipping frames. Period, end of story.

There's no deinterlacing on the 720p content, since it is broadcast in progressive scan. Even on my underpowered Mini, watching anything on ABC or FOX through EyeTV looks just as good as on my TV's internal tuner. NBC and CBS...not so much. I get a serious case of the blurries. It is less noticeable on non-sports programming, but still bad enough that I'm looking to upgrade to one of the new minis eventually just for this reason...I watch way too much football to put up with this any more than necessary :)

Other than that, Chef is spot-on as usual. If you are hell-bent on taking your friend's mini for a spin on his projector, try setting it to output 1080i and let the projector downres to 720p...at least that way you'll get a better idea of what the performance will be.

Random side note: I wish there was a way to sync up the EyeTV interlacing timings with the interlaced output from the GPU itself. I can turn off EyeTV's deinterlacing entirely, but of course the EyeTV playback is out of phase with the computer's interlaced output. My TV could do all the heavy lifting for EyeTV, if there was a way to sync them up.

Depends on the software--users with that Macbook have reported Plex can handle some downloaded 1080p content just fine, so on that front you should be OK. You're making an incorrect assumption on the 1080i content, though, at least with respect to EyeTV.


I'm not sure I understand why 1080p is OK but 1080i in EyeTV is not. Perhaps EyeTV's de-interlacing is too CPU intensive?



Have you ever used EyeTV yourself? This is just to record and run the software. EyeTV needs a much more powerful CPU to handle high def at its best deinterlace setting.


Yes, I've had my EyeTV 500 for a while, and I recorded Clear QAM HD on my Powerbook G4. It could even play it OK downrezzed in half. I'll give it a try again, since it's been my plan to use it as an interim OTA HD recorder, and I can confirm my recollection or stand corrected ;)



This mini with a GMA 950 can't play back 720p/1080i QAM and ATSC content at EyeTV's best deinterlace setting without skipping frames. Period, end of story. I know, I had this exact Macbook for a year in the HT. The minute you step up to a Mac with any other graphics, even the X3100, bingo, your problems disappear. It might be


I saw you on the Elgato forums saying the exact same thing. So you're not sure why, but you had a Mini with GMA 950 and couldn't play 1080i with EyeTV's de-interlacing. What about with de-interlacing off? My Epson PJ has the Reon HQV upscaler, so everything looks fine on my MBP @ 1920x1080i 60Hz. Do you think it would be ok with de-interlacing off?



Unless your friend is offering you a very sweet deal, a deal you can't refuse, like $300, you'll probably regret getting that mini with the GMA 950, and likely want to replace it within the first 6 months. When Snow Leopard comes out, wouldn't you prefer to be able to grow with it rather than be left behind?

My friend is offering me his 2.0GhZ C2D, 2GB RAM, 120GB HD, with (2) miniStacks v2's with 500GB drives, for $550. He says it plays 720P Hulu HD no problem. mdr25 says 720P EyeTV is fine, but 1080i is "blurry" ... if 1080i is fine letting my projector handle deinterlacing, and it can play some h.264 1080p, seems like it will be fine media center / file server for a few years.

Unfortunately, my friend lives a thousand miles away, so there is no easy way to test at my house ;) I appreciate the warning about the GMA 950, so mostly I'm curious if about skipping the de-interlacing.

Besides, the GMA 950 has some support for video ...

High Definition Hardware Motion Compensation to support high definition hi-bitrate MPEG2 media playback
Up and Down Scaling of Video Content
High Definition Content Decode - up to two stream support
5x3 Overlay Filtering

If we're lucky, Snow Leopard's support for hardware video acceleration will even bump up performance on older hardware. That doesn't seem to be Apple's modis operandi, but, we will see. :)

I saw you on the Elgato forums saying the exact same thing. So you're not sure why, but you had a Mini with GMA 950 and couldn't play 1080i with EyeTV's de-interlacing. What about with de-interlacing off? My Epson PJ has the Reon HQV upscaler, so everything looks fine on my MBP @ 1920x1080i 60Hz. Do you think it would be ok with de-interlacing off?

....

mdr25 says 720P EyeTV is fine, but 1080i is "blurry" ... if 1080i is fine letting my projector handle deinterlacing, and it can play some h.264 1080p, seems like it will be fine media center / file server for a few years.


Sorry I probably wasn't very clear in my original post. There are a few different deinterlace settings in EyeTV. The highest (most CPU intensive) theoretically gives you perfect deinterlacing, but my mini can't keep up so it drops a lot of frames and is pretty much unwatchable (for me). The second-best option doesn't drop any frames, but is only so-so in terms of deinterlacing quality. That causes some blurriness in high-action scenes. How well you tolerate this depends on personal preference and what you watch.

You can set your mac to output a 1080i signal, but EyeTV can't sync the interlaced signal of the recorded video to the interlaced signal coming out of the graphics card. Setting EyeTV to "no deinterlace" uses much less CPU, but results in serious combing (I think that is the term) for 1080i content. Regardless the type of signal your mini itself is outputting, the EyeTV playback will appear as if it has undergone zero deinterlacing. Your eyes will bleed.

So on my system, 1080i content watched through EyeTV is deinterlaced by the EyeTV software, and then reinterlaced by OS X as the computer sends the (interlaced) frames out at 1080i. My TV deinterlaces the 1080i content and displays it as 1080p (whew!).

If the content is not interlaced (i.e., 720p content), obviously no deinterlacing is necessary. Playback is still CPU intensive, but I think all the Core Duos can handle 720p without frame drops assuming there aren't other processes hogging computing resources.

The end of my post was just commenting that it would be really cool if EyeTV could output interlaced TV content in sync with the interlaced GPU signal, but it can't. I'm guessing that is much, much lower-level GPU programming than the EyeTV guys want to handle, if it is even possible.

Sorry I probably wasn't very clear in my original post. There are a few different deinterlace settings in EyeTV. The highest (most CPU intensive) theoretically gives you perfect deinterlacing, but my mini can't keep up so it drops a lot of frames and is pretty much unwatchable (for me). The second-best option doesn't drop any frames, but is only so-so in terms of deinterlacing quality. That causes some blurriness in high-action scenes. How well you tolerate this depends on personal preference and what you watch.


I've only tested using last week's "ER" recorded OTA in 1080i. I chose it because I figured it would have some fast moving crash carts, and it was going to start about 15 minutes after I got my 7" UHF loop correctly pointed at the NBC antenna ;)

Using EyeTV 2.5.2, at the best deinterlacing setting (progressive), the 1.8GHZ Core Duo went over 100% CPU for EyeTV's process. And it skipped franes too much to be watchable.

All the other modes kept the CPU below 100% and were skip free. I did agree that sometimes with no deinterlacing, you could see "combing" lines. In the other modes ("motion adaptive" and "always"), it seemed perfectly watchable. Perhaps I will try converting to a h.264 1080p file and see if the quality is noticeably better. But I doubt it will be worth it, unless further watching proves that one of those middle modes doesn't cut it with some content.



So on my system, 1080i content watched through EyeTV is deinterlaced by the EyeTV software, and then reinterlaced by OS X as the computer sends the (interlaced) frames out at 1080i. My TV deinterlaces the 1080i content and displays it as 1080p (whew!).


Hah hah ... Yeah, it really is too bad that EyeTV can't let my TV do the de-interlacing in a DVI-HDMI situation. I even found setting my Mac to 1280x720 looked a little better letting the projector handle the upscaling, but I'm not sure jumping display rez's will be worth it.


If the content is not interlaced (i.e., 720p content), obviously no deinterlacing is necessary. Playback is still CPU intensive, but I think all the Core Duos can handle 720p without frame drops assuming there aren't other processes hogging computing resources.


I agree, 720P content in EyeTV and iTunes HD played fine, although I didn't do any 'under load' testing. I couldn't get Hulu HD 720P flash video to play acceptably, although one poster in that thread said it worked for him and 1.8GHz Mini.

For OP, I'm not worried about the GMA 950 issue. Yes, it sucks that Apple has taken so long to upgrade the Mini's. Yes, if the choice is $574 for a last-gen Mini from MacMall or $599 for a new one, I'd go with the new one. But if you can get a good deal, I'd recommend a Core 2 Duo, since a 2.0 GHZ Core 2 is like 20+% faster than 2.0GhZ Core Duo.

I like the idea of used Mini too for video output options, because from another thread it sounds like the new Mini's don't do DVI-analog output, so standard VGA and S-video outputs don't work. Not that I want to use S-Video out all the time, but being able to connect directly to my 27" CRT sometimes might be handy :)

Cheers.

How is the new (base) mini with DVD Rips? I've been considering turning all my DVDs into digital files and storing them on an external HD and just have them played through Plex...wise choice or should I stick with upconverting them through my Blu-ray player?

You have so many options here.

TIVO - if you really want to save something - Use Toast or similar, it really isn't that difficult and it borrows from EYETV software for editing out commercials. Handbrake comes to mind here as a final tool for file.

PS3 - I use a NAS and store all the "main movie" files as one large VOB and it streams for me with no problems. I can also do "main movie" from my blu ray archived files as well. You can always play your blu ray and dvd discs as you know as well. The main 2 issues with PS3 remain - ugly front end and a lil picky on file types.

Mac Mini - If you are not going beyond TIVO HD 1080i, then it with Plex can be very good. Here is where Handbrake can come in handy converting your TIVO files (now MPG etc thru Toast etc.) to other formats and de-interlacing if you chose.

Candidly, you have a good system, I would keep the PS3 and TIVO and include the Mac Mini but that's just me. I like simple. If the PS3 handled all file types I want, I would just continue with using PS3 only. It is a very good player.

- Phrehdd