I need some advice in my next projector purchase. Currently the two projectors that I am looking at is the PTAE3000 or the PRO-FPJ1 (as the price has dropped). I have a dedicated home theater room, where currently I have a panasonic PTAE900. The room is large, with not much light coming into it, with the projector about 26 feet back and the screen "120. I watch mostly movies, but I do sometimes have some light in the back of the room if I an running on the treadmill (also in the room), or the occasional sporting event. Which would you recommend?
Thanks.

Personally, I chose the Panny. You have to decide if you want the extra features the Panny offers....They are both great projectors. I love the frame interpolation on the Panny and the lens memory...The blacks are close on both.

Personally, I chose the Panny. You have to decide if you want the extra features the Panny offers....They are both great projectors. I love the frame interpolation on the Panny and the lens memory...The blacks are close on both.

Have you seen an FPJ1 in person?

The blacks are close on both.
Ummmm, not EVEN close to each other. I HAVE seen both (well the RS2) and the 3000 side by side. No.... not even close, but the Panny does have a different feature set.
Also, I do not have an ax to grind with either. I have had a Panny 1000, 2000, ax100, ax200, and you Panny 900 as well as Sony vpl-vw50, vpl-vw60 and now the vpl-200. Epson 1080 Pro, mitsubishi hc4900, hc5500, and Sanyo 2000.
I just bought a pioneer for my bedroom set-up....
I personally do like the frame interpolation, but NOT for movies (which is 99% of my viewing)
Either choice is a good one but your screen size with ambient lite MIGHT be a problem with the Pioneer.
Sporting events and ambient light make me say Panny.
Best,
Chris

Dogone, though the Panny is a great projector, I have said it before and I will say it again, on a whole the Pioneer is a better unit (though usually more money as well). To each his own I guess...

Dogone, though the Panny is a great projector, I have said it before and I will say it again, on a whole the Pioneer is a better unit (though usually more money as well). To each his own I guess...

Actually, "on a whole" The Panny is a better unit...at least for me, because when you say, "whole" you are talking, "all" and the Panny flat out has more "all". It has great colors, great blacks, and in addition, it has more lumens, frame interpolation, lens memory, more lens shift, hell the list goes on...So as a "whole" I'll take the Panny any day...;)

Have you seen an FPJ1 in person?

Yes, I have 2 sitting here in my living room...Going to re-sell them on ebay.

Yes, I have 2 sitting here in my living room...Going to re-sell them on ebay.

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:
I second that...

Yes, I have 2 sitting here in my living room...Going to re-sell them on ebay.

No I mean have you seen one up and running, properly set up.

At the current price - barely a $500 delta - the improvement in PQ on the FPJ1 over the Panny makes the Panny a hard pill to swallow.

The RS2/FPJ1 has:

- Higher calibrated light output
- Significantly higher contrast, even when compared against real life dynamic (iris-based) contrast on the Panny (actual dynamic specs are inflated)
- Superior optics
- 11-point parametric greyscale/gamma controls for precise calibration
- Better mx record and fewer issues out of the box

For any kind of critical (movie) viewing application, especially when considering price, the FPJ1 easily beats the Panny. The only advantages that the Panny has over the FPJ1 is the ability to calibrate the gamut, the lens memory (only useful for lens-less CIH setups), and the ability to output more light at the expense of greyscale/color accuracy (for sporting events and the like).

Everyone here who's been around knows that you'll champion the AE3000 over any other projector without reason, so I'd strongly urge the OP to consider opinions other than yours when making a decision. I'm not saying he shouldn't choose the AE3000, just that he shouldn't consider your less-than-experienced opinions.

All this talk about an RS2 realy makes me want to jump on the Pioneer deal.... what is the absolute biggest screen you can get by with in an almost cave (light colored walls)?

Yes, I have 2 sitting here in my living room...Going to re-sell them on ebay.

Let me save you the trouble of Ebay. Since "on a whole" Pannys are better, I'd be happy to give you two new Pannys for your Pioneers! You can enjoy that lovely feature set that makes these AE3000s so irresitible... Let me know, serious offer!

Btw, if you got a Porsche I can trade you for a Corolla, you will not believe the child anchor in the back and the trunk net, awesome feature set:D

All this talk about an RS2 realy makes me want to jump on the Pioneer deal.... what is the absolute biggest screen you can get by with in an almost cave (light colored walls)?

I saw an RS1 go 147" High Power ecently. OLD bulb. FPJ1 should match this.
We viewed at 11' :eek:

I need some advice in my next projector purchase. Currently the two projectors that I am looking at is the PTAE3000 or the PRO-FPJ1 (as the price has dropped). I have a dedicated home theater room, where currently I have a panasonic PTAE900. The room is large, with not much light coming into it, with the projector about 26 feet back and the screen "120. I watch mostly movies, but I do sometimes have some light in the back of the room if I an running on the treadmill (also in the room), or the occasional sporting event. Which would you recommend?
Thanks.

Stats lie. Your eyeballs wont.
I chose FPJ1.

AE3000 sounds like a very mediocre pj picture-quality wise, despite its features, from everything I've read at least (can't see myself unfortunately). The inferior contrast to epson 6500ub and mits hc7000 + soft "smoothscreened" picture are turn-offs for me. If had to spend no more than $2500 I'd find a used benq w20000 personally. But for $3k fpj1 is a no brainer, imo.

Just pulled the trigger on the fpj1. I have never seen in action but with the deals going on right now I just can't pass it up. Do you think it's going to be bright enough for my wilsonart 92" screen with a throw of 12ft? I watch mostly sports and movies. Thanks

All this talk about an RS2 realy makes me want to jump on the Pioneer deal.... what is the absolute biggest screen you can get by with in an almost cave (light colored walls)?

Deends on screen choice, but assuming realtively conservative screen choice of 1.3...at around 600 lumens average for the RS2, shooting for say 20 footlamberts to start, that works out to about 110-119" diagonal. Of course there are factors that come into play, such as the specific projector you get, the actual screen choice, bulb dimming, etc... Also some people don't need that much might output, in which case you can go larger. What I would probably do is get the projector and fire it onto a white wall/sheet to get a feel for what you are comfortable with and then go from there.

For any kind of critical (movie) viewing application, especially when considering price, the FPJ1 easily beats the Panny. The only advantages that the Panny has over the FPJ1 is the ability to calibrate the gamut, the lens memory (only useful for lens-less CIH setups), and the ability to output more light at the expense of greyscale/color accuracy (for sporting events and the like).

Very good points, indeed. If one is searching for optimum picture quality, the FPJ1 probably is the best choice. I only say probably because I have not compared them personally. No doubt the feedback and data here on the forums supports this.

However, for me, having a CIH setup and being able to view a 2.35 movie in 2.35 full screen, is more important than a little bit more contrast or black level. I realize, without seeing them, that it's difficult for me to assume what the difference in PQ would be. However, I'm making assumptions based on various competing PJ's that I have viewed, comparing what the differences are stated to be here, and assuming the difference here would be something similar. To me, there is a bit of difference, but it's difficult to notice, especially without ideal viewing conditions, proper setup, and proper calibration.

I guess my point is, I will NOTICE the lens memory feature every time I watch a 2.35 movie, and it will please me. I'm not convinced I will notice the difference in contrast or black level. For those who like the frame interpolation (personally I can't stand it), that will be obviously noticed every time it's used as well. While I can understand the theory of wanting the best PQ for the price (which many seem to embrace here), there are many real world application factors that can make features just as important as picture quality, to some folks. So, to each his own. If PQ is your one and only thing, it seems the FPJ1 is the obvious choice in the price range. However, if CIH or frame interpolation are important to you, your only going to get them with the Panny, which also has a very respectable PQ. I'm actually quite surprised that Panasonic was the only one to implement the lens memory and frame interpolation features in this years batch of pj's.

I agree with you completely - hence my caveat regarding the Panny's lens memory. If you're looking to do CIH on the cheap, it's a very attractive package.

I've seen the AE3000 in person and I was very impressed with its ability to work in a room with a lot of ambient light. Its light-controlled theater performance was very nice as well, and I'm sure lots of people would be happy with it. However, when considering each projector's strengths and weaknesses, I think the Pio would give him an overall better experience.

It all depends on ones needs/wants really. To each his own. :)

...However, for me, having a CIH setup and being able to view a 2.35 movie in 2.35 full screen, is more important than a little bit more contrast or black level. ....You are implying that the FPJ1 does not support 2.35:1 screen, which is not true. The difference is that the Pany will 1 click zoom between 1.89:1 and 2.35:1 and the FPJ1 requires holding down the zoom button. :)

You are implying that the FPJ1 does not support 2.35:1 screen, which is not true. The difference is that the Pany will 1 click zoom between 1.89:1 and 2.35:1 and the FPJ1 requires holding down the zoom button. :)

Or using an anamorphic lens.

You are implying that the FPJ1 does not support 2.35:1 screen, which is not true. The difference is that the Pany will 1 click zoom between 1.89:1 and 2.35:1 and the FPJ1 requires holding down the zoom button. :)

What about vertical shift (I think it's still manual on the Pioneer)? Unless the projector is dead center of the screen, shift is needed too.

Sorry to be pedantic, but the AE3000 requires slightly more than 'one click' to achieve AR change (which I would have liked to have been made more obvious to me before I bought my AE3000).

You can map the lens memory menu to the one 'function' button, but this still only brings up the menu; you then have to use the up, down and enter buttons to select which one of the three memories you require. Then, while changing the setting, the word 'Processing' is displayed in the middle of the screen, until it is complete (10 seconds or so). Then the menu pops back up, so you have to press the 'return' button to clear the screen. Why oh why they couldn't just have three buttons on the remote to select directly, with the option of not displaying any menus/messages during the process? :mad:

It's still a useful feature, that I use all the time as I have a 2.35:1 screen and occasionally watch 16:9 content. However, my recent Lumagen HDQ purchase should allow me to do a true 'one button' AR change that will allow me to 'shrink' the 16:9 disc menu into a 'window' with the zoomed 2.35:1 image (PQ wouldn't be important just to select options and start the film). I figure this will help save on wear and tear on the AE3000 lens as I'll only need to use the 16:9 lens memory position when I'm going to watch a whole 16:9 film.

Which one of these is more "versatile" based on input? The consensus here seems to be for movies / cinema that the fpj1 has the upper hand. How does it perform with the AE3000 with HD Broadcast / cable, SD (ugh no ESPNU HD in my area), gaming, and possible PC display output?

Let me save you the trouble of Ebay. Since "on a whole" Pannys are better, I'd be happy to give you two new Pannys for your Pioneers! You can enjoy that lovely feature set that makes these AE3000s so irresitible... Let me know, serious offer!

Btw, if you got a Porsche I can trade you for a Corolla, you will not believe the child anchor in the back and the trunk net, awesome feature set:D

Actually I think Porsches are junk and ugly to look at... you couldn't pay me to own one....(on the other hand, I couldn't stomach a Corolla either)....How bout a new electric car?...now that would interest me. Listen, the Pioneer is shiny black, and nice to look at, but the Panny simply chops it down in features...For me, it wouldn't work...Not enough light output, and no interpolation...The Panny is simply the better choice. As far as trade, well why would I trade the Pioneer when I can find a sucker on ebay to give me 1000.00 more for it?...:D

This is nearly a Kuro vs. Samsung LCD debate.

Frame interpolation, are you kidding me?

:rolleyes: It almost sounds like a cult..."the sky is green and that's how it is because it is that way and there's simply no questioning it"

The dogone broken AE3000 record keeps on playing...

I must say this is the first time I heard that the AE3000 blacks were close, or that it was a better overall PJ......

Since the AE3K is a better PJ at $2499 Retail, I would expect those FPJ1's that are collecting dust, to go for substantially less when put on Fleabay....

No Reserve....

I must say this is the first time I heard that the AE3000 blacks were close, or that it was a better overall PJ......

They're not close, he just says that because the recitation is part of his ritual worship.

Since the AE3K is a better PJ at $2499 Retail, I would expect those FPJ1's that are collecting dust, to go for substantially less when put on Fleabay....

No Reserve....

Yeah, I think people looking to buy the Pios "cheap" and then sell them at a big profit are going to be in for a rude awakening...

This is nearly a Kuro vs. Samsung LCD debate.

Frame interpolation, are you kidding me?

QFT

This is just silly. If the easier zoom method is the reason for choosing the panny, so be it. It should be noted though that you can achieve the same functionality with the pioneer - it would just take a bit more effort.

Picture quality wise, while the panny is a nice projector, it is not nearly as nice as the pioneer. I've seen them both side by side. Given the price of the pioneer, I couldn't fathom spending as much on the panny.

Dogone - can you post a link to your pioneers when you list them on eBay?

I saw the Panny vs the Pioneer (the JVC HD100) and the JVC produced the better image - better contrast, more dimensional. I was actually surprised that the JVC looked more dimensional and more solid in brighter scenes, given Projector Central's lauding of the Panny's new higher ANSI contrast.

So from what I've seen the Pioneer would definitely produce a better image.

Sorry to jump in here, but I was about to buy the ae3k until I saw the fpj1 selling for seriously way under msrp. I'm a pj noob for sure, but I read that it doesn't have digital keystone. Is this a big deal if it's ceiling mounted? I'm also a bit concerned about having a short throw distance for a 10' screen. Would anybody recommend using a screen with gain? Thanks again.

If the fpj1 is such a great projector and such a fantastic deal at 2800.00, why aren't they selling as fast as they hit ebay? Or for that matter, "why" are they selling for so cheap?...:rolleyes: I'll tell you why...because there are other projectors just as good or better for the same price and even less...;) And with Pioneer going out of the projector business, no one wants to take a chance. I saw these two projectors side by side, and trust me...the Pioneer is over-rated...(big time)...;) Yep...lovin my frame interpolation and lens memory as well as the other feaures that the dim Pioneer doesn't have...;)

:rolleyes:

The broken record of buffoonery continues...

I have to give you credit though, you pull more and more creative BS out of your posterior every time.

:rolleyes:

The broken record of buffoonery continues...

I have to give you credit though, you pull more and more creative bs out of your posterior every time.

:d

If the fpj1 is such a great projector and such a fantastic deal at 2800.00, why aren't they selling as fast as they hit ebay? Or for that matter, "why" are they selling for so cheap?...:rolleyes: I'll tell you why...because there are other projectors just as good or better for the same price and even less...;) And with Pioneer going out of the projector business, no one wants to take a chance. I saw these two projectors side by side, and trust me...the Pioneer is over-rated...(big time)...;) Yep...lovin my frame interpolation and lens memory as well as the other feaures that the dim Pioneer doesn't have...;)

Just keep telling yourself that ... someday you'll actually believe your own BS! :p

You are implying that the FPJ1 does not support 2.35:1 screen, which is not true. The difference is that the Pany will 1 click zoom between 1.89:1 and 2.35:1 and the FPJ1 requires holding down the zoom button. :)

I didn't mean to imply that. I suppose I assumed that everyone had proper knowledge in how CIH works. Sure, it can be done with zoom and lens shift.. it's just not as nice of a solution as a preset memory.

Or using an anamorphic lens.

So now the FPJ1 with/CIH costs... $4k? Or more, or less.. depending how badly you want to further degrade that 'best in class' picture your getting.


Let's take two scenarios, for arguments sake. I wonder how many people out of 10 would say the FPJ1 has a better picture IF viewed side by side on the same screen (assuming all other factors equal). From the conclusions here, we can assume 10/10 will, provided dogone is not one of them. Of course, this is also assuming bat cave darkness. If we introduce ambient light, the choice may not be so easy.

However, to me at least, that is not a 'real world' way to choose. Instead, lets put the two projectors in different rooms (again, all other equipment/factors equal). Now we let the viewers watch one, then after a few minutes they move to the other room and watch the other. How many would then pick the FPJ1? I'd be willing to bet it would be less than if viewed side by side, perhaps 8 or 9 out of 10. Why? Because, while there may in fact be a difference, I'm argueing that it's slight enough to the AVERAGE viewer that they might not reliably pick the FPJ1.

Now, if we were to take the same 2 room example, and show them both 1.89 and 2.35 material in the same sitting, I bet 10/10 will be able to pick out which one has to be "fiddled" with and which one doesn't, to fill the 2.35 screen height. I realize CIH is not important to everyone, but if it is, then the panny is a nice choice for this feature alone (and yes, I read the comments about how you have to enter the menu to change memories.. somewhat of a bummer, but still way more convienent).

Obviously that's a hypothetical argument and will be picked apart. Just keep in mind that the average viewer probably doesn't even have their display properly calibrated, so it's possible the 'better' projector will never be realized anyway, making the features an even more prominent part of the decision making.

If the fpj1 is such a great projector and such a fantastic deal at 2800.00, why aren't they selling as fast as they hit ebay? Or for that matter, "why" are they selling for so cheap?...:rolleyes: I'll tell you why...because there are other projectors just as good or better for the same price and even less...;)

Really? Like which cheaper projectors?

I already know the Panny 3000 isn't as good; I've seen it demoed in the same room with the same source material as the JVC HD100 (same as the Pioneer projector) and the JVC looked better in every way.

So which other projectors would you be hinting at, out of curiosity?

Probably hinting at the Epson 6500UB I would presume since after rebate it's in the ballpark.

So noone has used mixed material on the fpj1? Really this is at least a year and a half old on the technology roadmap (Yes I know it was released in 08 but the JVC it's 99.995% based on was released late '07) and without seeing this in person to try was hoping that someone here "put it through the gauntlet" so to speak.

I'm going to keep my FPJ1 till the next big wave of technology hits which to me is 2.35:1 projectors.
Preparing for that with my current screen selection. Going oversize and may mask down to 16:9.

Someone asked if 10' throw was OK with FPJ. It has a 2:1 zoom so should be fine.
Go to Projector Central and use their calculator.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Pioneer-Elite_PRO-FPJ1-projection-calculator-pro.htm

Just keep telling yourself that ... someday you'll actually believe your own BS! :p

You know something, I think I am going to take my 18 years of AV knowledge and throw it out the door...the Panny is the one for me! :)

Ok, I've read as much as I can on the AE3000, 6500ub; and now Pioneer has dropped the floor out on the FPJ1, so now I have a quick question.

How well does the Pioneer handle some ambient light? I have a light controlled room, but if there is a little light will the fpj1 still be bright enough, or should I stick to either the 3000 vs the 6500ub?

Almost pulled the trigger on the 6500, but the problems they have with them I am weary.

Tried looking for pioneer reviews, but I couldn't find anything off of google. :(

Ok, I've read as much as I can on the AE3000, 6500ub; and now Pioneer has dropped the floor out on the FPJ1, so now I have a quick question.

How well does the Pioneer handle some ambient light? I have a light controlled room, but if there is a little light will the fpj1 still be bright enough, or should I stick to either the 3000 vs the 6500ub?

Almost pulled the trigger on the 6500, but the problems they have with them I am weary.

Tried looking for pioneer reviews, but I couldn't find anything off of google. :(

Look at JVC RS2 reviews...many of them and they are the same thing.

RE: Brightnes...what size and type screen do you have?

Look at JVC RS2 reviews...many of them and they are the same thing.

RE: Brightnes...what size and type screen do you have?

From what I've read here on avs, buying the screen last is most beneficial. I was going with the D.Y.I. mode with either the 3k or 6500ub, but if I go with the Rs2, I will want the most gain I can get I think. I can try to get the highest gain for the Rs2 (err pioneer :p) after I get it home. I have plenty of flexibility where I can mount my potential pj. My room is 23' long x 11' wide.

From what I've read here on avs, buying the screen last is most beneficial. I was going with the D.Y.I. mode with either the 3k or 6500ub, but if I go with the Rs2, I will want the most gain I can get I think. I can try to get the highest gain for the Rs2 (err pioneer :p) after I get it home. I have plenty of flexibility where I can mount my potential pj. My room is 23' long x 11' wide.

High gain doesn't necessarily mean best performance. In fact with ambient light many of the high gain screens are a BAD idea. That being said, it still depends on how big you want to go in part. Do you have any specific mounting requirements for the projector?

High gain doesn't necessarily mean best performance. In fact with ambient light many of the high gain screens are a BAD idea. That being said, it still depends on how big you want to go in part. Do you have any specific mounting requirements for the projector?

No specific mounting requirements per say. I can either ceiling mount the projector, or build a platform in the back of the room to house the pj. I'm in the construction field, so I can do anything that I need to, quickly. Thanks for the heads-up on the screen gain.

I do have a soffit housing my central air duct in the middle of the room, but it doesn't really interfere with any projector angle, no matter where I place any potential pj. If it does...I'll re-frame the ducts into the ceiling. :D

I would love to go about 100" diagonal with the space I have.

Also, thanks so much for the help here Jason.

Darin

I have seen the pj at 100 inches or so and it was fine. The issue I have is that I want to fill a 119 inch diagonal. Will it be able to do the job? My room is brown and light controlled. My screen is 1.3 gain. I can vary the distance to the screen as needed.
Jason, any words of advice? Can the pioneer handle it?

No specific mounting requirements per say. I can either ceiling mount the projector, or build a platform in the back of the room to house the pj. I'm in the construction field, so I can do anything that I need to, quickly. Thanks for the heads-up on the screen gain.

I do have a soffit housing my central air duct in the middle of the room, but it doesn't really interfere with any projector angle, no matter where I place any potential pj. If it does...I'll re-frame the ducts into the ceiling. :D

I would love to go about 100" diagonal with the space I have.

Also, thanks so much for the help here Jason.

Darin

Hi Power might be a good option to consider then as it does well with the ambient light, but you certainly would be better lowering the projector on a rear shelf-type mount to maximize the benefits of the gain.

I have seen the pj at 100 inches or so and it was fine. The issue I have is that I want to fill a 119 inch diagonal. Will it be able to do the job? My room is brown and light controlled. My screen is 1.3 gain. I can vary the distance to the screen as needed.
Jason, any words of advice? Can the pioneer handle it?

At 58"x104" (119" diag. 16:9) you are at roughly 42'...so figuring average 600 lumens, you will be at 14.3 footcandles, and with a 1.3 gain 18.6 footlamberts. This is assuming new lamp, max output (not taking into consideration lamp dimming and such). So you would be okay yes, but it won't be super bright either and definitely best with external lighting to a minimum.

Hi Power might be a good option to consider then as it does well with the ambient light, but you certainly would be better lowering the projector on a rear shelf-type mount to maximize the benefits of the gain.

Perfect! I think I'll go with the pioneer. I won't be watching any tv ( wife doesn't know this yet) on this. Only movies/video and an occasional videogame. I might look into getting a lowering ceiling mount if I need to be closer to the middle of the room for the best picture quality. My room is in a basement with one window at the far end of an adjacent room, so I can achieve a cave if I really need to.

The throw distance would be at around 21' if I went with a shelf at the back of the room. I think I need to keep at a closer range with this pj. Am I correct?

21' with PJF1 = 106" to 212" :eek:

On a 100" diagonal 16:9 screen, the max throw is 20.3'...at 21' you are slightly too far. But at 106" diagonal, your max throw is 21.47'...better range. The difference in light output is negligable, as is the real world size, so to make things easier it might be a better bet on screen size.

On a 100" diagonal 16:9 screen, the max throw is 20.3'...at 21' you are slightly too far. But at 106" diagonal, your max throw is 21.47'...better range. The difference in light output is negligable, as is the real world size, so to make things easier it might be a better bet on screen size.

Ok. Thanks guys for all the input. Now I need to sell my Panny 46" plasma.:D...and find a FPJ1.

No problem. Happy to help.

I agree,
Thanks for the advice Jason.

No specific mounting requirements per say. I can either ceiling mount the projector, or build a platform in the back of the room to house the pj. I'm in the construction field, so I can do anything that I need to, quickly. Thanks for the heads-up on the screen gain.

I do have a soffit housing my central air duct in the middle of the room, but it doesn't really interfere with any projector angle, no matter where I place any potential pj. If it does...I'll re-frame the ducts into the ceiling. :D

I would love to go about 100" diagonal with the space I have.

Also, thanks so much for the help here Jason.

Darin

Another option is putting the projector up close and hang from ceiling. If the projector is close to the screen it will be brighter (less light lost through zoom lens). You said you had ducts in the middle of the room, maybe it would work out it could go in front of a duct and is more hidden.

If you were at 9' 7" minimum for 100", a 1.0 screen would give you 20 FL, 1.3 gain would give you 26 FL. Very bright.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/JVC-DLA-RS2-projection-calculator-pro.htm

Actually I think Porsches are junk and ugly to look at... you couldn't pay me to own one...

So, now you have made it clear you haven't seen a properly set up RS2/FPJ1 or driven a Porsche.

Another option is putting the projector up close and hang from ceiling. If the projector is close to the screen it will be brighter (less light lost through zoom lens). You said you had ducts in the middle of the room, maybe it would work out it could go in front of a duct and is more hidden.

If you were at 9' 7" minimum for 100", a 1.0 screen would give you 20 FL, 1.3 gain would give you 26 FL. Very bright.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/JVC-DLA-RS2-projection-calculator-pro.htm

I was thinking about this too. I'm definitely going to buy my screen after I have a chance to try different placements. Thanks for the general numbers mike.

Actually I think Porsches are junk and ugly to look at... you couldn't pay me to own one....(on the other hand, I couldn't stomach a Corolla either)....How bout a new electric car?...now that would interest me. Listen, the Pioneer is shiny black, and nice to look at, but the Panny simply chops it down in features...For me, it wouldn't work...Not enough light output, and no interpolation...The Panny is simply the better choice. As far as trade, well why would I trade the Pioneer when I can find a sucker on ebay to give me 1000.00 more for it?...:D


Damn, I should PM you for advice prior to making a purchase next time. I keep buying junk!!! :( I was about to buy an Elite 111FD plasma but I better reconsider. Its probably sheeyit too! :rolleyes:


http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/798/loweredside.jpg (http://imageshack.us)





http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/45/elitefpj1rj3.jpg

High gain doesn't necessarily mean best performance. In fact with ambient light many of the high gain screens are a BAD idea. That being said, it still depends on how big you want to go in part. Do you have any specific mounting requirements for the projector?
Hi Jason! I'm also trying to find a good screen for Pioneer. What do you think, would 100" 16:9 Carada BW (gain 1.4) pair with PRO-FPJ1 in light controlled room?

I have both the HD1 and the AE3000. The HD1 is currently in storage. Happened to have an old AE700 that I was able to trade in for the AE3000 so wanted to test it out.

The HD1 has better blacks than the AE3000.

By inference, the HD100 (on which the Kuro is based on) should have even better blacks than the AE3000.

No question about it.

But what I did gain were some things that made the AE3000 a more easy to like package: some smaller, some bigger.

I liked the more accurate colors initially in Cinema1 mode and later using an old 81EF filter in Normal mode.

I also liked the faster sync times. When my BR player and TVIX player switches between 1080p60 and 1080p24 modes, it takes ages to sync on the HD1. I believe it's still about as slow on the newer RS750/350. I just didn't like missing the first few seconds of the show

And the Frame Creation mode really works for me. Even in Mode 2.

And to be honest, the differences between the HD1 and the AE3000's black levels and contrast and that obvious in most of the material I am watching these days. The only time I do notice it is when the scenes fade to black.

My two cents :)

ps I am more of a GTR kind of person... Boxster money for Turbo performance (WHOA! Wait till you guys see the flame wars on THAT subject)

:P

Hi Jason! I'm also trying to find a good screen for Pioneer. What do you think, would 100" 16:9 Carada BW (gain 1.4) pair with PRO-FPJ1 in light controlled room?

That would work fine, and the BW is a great fabric as well so a good match.

I have both the HD1 and the AE3000. The HD1 is currently in storage. Happened to have an old AE700 that I was able to trade in for the AE3000 so wanted to test it out.

The HD1 has better blacks than the AE3000.

By inference, the HD100 (on which the Kuro is based on) should have even better blacks than the AE3000.

No question about it.

But what I did gain were some things that made the AE3000 a more easy to like package: some smaller, some bigger.

I liked the more accurate colors initially in Cinema1 mode and later using an old 81EF filter in Normal mode.

I also liked the faster sync times. When my BR player and TVIX player switches between 1080p60 and 1080p24 modes, it takes ages to sync on the HD1. I believe it's still about as slow on the newer RS750/350. I just didn't like missing the first few seconds of the show

And the Frame Creation mode really works for me. Even in Mode 2.

And to be honest, the differences between the HD1 and the AE3000's black levels and contrast and that obvious in most of the material I am watching these days. The only time I do notice it is when the scenes fade to black.

My two cents :)

ps I am more of a GTR kind of person... Boxster money for Turbo performance (WHOA! Wait till you guys see the flame wars on THAT subject)

:P

As for the cars you really can't go wrong in that price range of GTR, Porsche, Vette Z06, and at the high end the R8. I'm sure I failed to mention a bunch, but you get the picture. Different strengths and weaknesses in each but all in all good choices throughout.

I think the same can be said for both of these, and oh hell the Epson 6500UB as well. Thanks for the input! It was hard to wade through a bunch of the pretenses in previous posts to see if the info was really an objective difference or if a bit of "starstruck with a good deal" price-wise came into play. I'm still going to keep an eye on this thread, but it seems that the PQ difference is slightly better with the Pio and the feature set leans towards the Panny but you can't really go "wrong" either way depending on your needs.

As for the cars you really can't go wrong in that price range of GTR, Porsche, Vette Z06, and at the high end the R8. I'm sure I failed to mention a bunch, but you get the picture. Different strengths and weaknesses in each but all in all good choices throughout.

I think the same can be said for both of these, and oh hell the Epson 6500UB as well. Thanks for the input! It was hard to wade through a bunch of the pretenses in previous posts to see if the info was really an objective difference or if a bit of "starstruck with a good deal" price-wise came into play. I'm still going to keep an eye on this thread, but it seems that the PQ difference is slightly better with the Pio and the feature set leans towards the Panny but you can't really go "wrong" either way depending on your needs.

Just to add to this for others looking... In this entire thread, there are about 4 people I would consider experts. They ALL recommended the Pioneer.

Just to add to this for others looking... In this entire thread, there are about 4 people I would consider experts. They ALL recommended the Pioneer.

I find this rather offensive. Perhaps this is why my time in the video section is typically short lived. The arrogance in this section really tends to reek at times, and is quite a turn off.

I don't consider myself an expert, and perhaps that could be a good thing. All the 'experts' seem to be concerned with is black level and shadow detail. There is more to life than that. In the real world (not some room with two projectors with the same input on the same screen) there are factors that can make as big or bigger difference. Pretty much all of the newest crop of 1080p will produce a stunning image to the average viewer (I've seen some 'good' ones and some 'bad' ones, and they all look quite good), making features even more important, to some.

In this price range, there are going to be tradeoffs no matter what projector you select. Assuming that these so called 'experts' priorities are the same as everyone else's is foolish.

.. but it seems that the PQ difference is slightly better with the Pio and the feature set leans towards the Panny but you can't really go "wrong" either way depending on your needs.

ding ding, we have a winner. Decide what's important to you and go with it, either is a good choice if it fits what you wanted.

I find this rather offensive. Perhaps this is why my time in the video section is typically short lived. The arrogance in this section really tends to reek at times, and is quite a turn off.

I don't consider myself an expert, and perhaps that could be a good thing. All the 'experts' seem to be concerned with is black level and shadow detail. There is more to life than that. In the real world (not some room with two projectors with the same input on the same screen) there are factors that can make as big or bigger difference. Pretty much all of the newest crop of 1080p will produce a stunning image to the average viewer (I've seen some 'good' ones and some 'bad' ones, and they all look quite good), making features even more important, to some.

In this price range, there are going to be tradeoffs no matter what projector you select. Assuming that these so called 'experts' priorities are the same as everyone else's is foolish.

Why do you find this offensive?? It would be very easy for a new guy to come in here, and from reading this thread, think the two are equal without realizing who's saying what. I'm simply stating out of the names here that I do recognize and trust... they all recommend the Pioneer. (if I missed any experts that recommended the panny, I apologize).

Why do you find this offensive?? It would be very easy for a new guy to come in here, and from reading this thread, think the two are equal without realizing who's saying what. I'm simply stating out of the names here that I do recognize and trust... they all recommend the Pioneer. (if I missed any experts that recommended the panny, I apologize).

What I got from your post was "Ignore what all these fools are talking about, listen to the experts and take the Pio". My point was, the Pio may or may not be the best choice for any given individual, so your statement was very generalized and belittled the opinions of anyone other than the so called experts.

Experts also often state DLP PJ's have the most pop and best picture, but some people CAN'T EVEN MOUNT THEM IN THEIR ROOM! Point is, there's more to a projector than worrying about which one has better black levels and shadow detail, in some cases only discernable by putting them side by side on the same screen.

Don't get me wrong either, I'm not discounting PQ as an important feature of a projector, I'm just trying to point out that it isn't the only feature.

I don't think anyone here has made blanket statements that the FPJ1 is a superior projector in every way to the AE3000 - however given the constraints of the OP's setup and marginal price difference between units, I don't think one could reasonably argue that the AE3000 would be a better choice for him.

As I said a couple pages ago, if he were planning on doing a zoom-based CIH setup, or if he insisted on a highly accurate gamut, the AE3000 would be a more serious contender. But given what the OP asked, I think the FPJ1 will be the best bang for the buck for him.

I don't think anyone here has made blanket statements that the FPJ1 is a superior projector in every way to the AE3000 - however given the constraints of the OP's setup and marginal price difference between units, I don't think one could reasonably argue that the AE3000 would be a better choice for him.

As I said a couple pages ago, if he were planning on doing a zoom-based CIH setup, or if he insisted on a highly accurate gamut, the AE3000 would be a more serious contender. But given what the OP asked, I think the FPJ1 will be the best bang for the buck for him.

Possibly so. My opinion is that we never really got enough info from him to begin with. Is he interested in CIH? We don't know. Does he like/want frame interpolation for those sporting events? We don't know. Does he care about the gamut? We don't know. Since he hasn't posted back again in the thread, it's hard to say.

What we do know, is that others are viewing this thread as well, and some have posted notifying us that they too are considering both projectors. If we simply state that the OP's best choice is the Pio, and don't clarify why, we are doing the others a disservice and misleading them into believing the Pio is the best choice no matter what.

That would work fine, and the BW is a great fabric as well so a good match.
Thanks for the advice!

Why do you find this offensive?? It would be very easy for a new guy to come in here, and from reading this thread, think the two are equal without realizing who's saying what. I'm simply stating out of the names here that I do recognize and trust... they all recommend the Pioneer. (if I missed any experts that recommended the panny, I apologize).

I found it offensive as after reading your posts here and on the deal thread, it came off as vehemently defending what you purchased without you even having it setup and viewed content for yourself with it, objective comparison be damned.

I didn't recommend anything in my post, I just summarized and took out all of the bashing of doggone and his somewhat off-base responses to get what I posted. The Pio has better PQ and the Panny has more features. And that's from the posters on this thread that I trust.

What's a shame is I couldn't get a straight answer about how the Pio can handle different content (HD broadcast, HD Sports, Games, PC input) vs. the Panny from anyone so I'm a bit on edge as to if this is a real-deal versatile unit or meant specifically for low-light BD/DVD source viewing.

:confused:

Possibly so. My opinion is that we never really got enough info from him to begin with. Is he interested in CIH? We don't know. Does he like/want frame interpolation for those sporting events? We don't know. Does he care about the gamut? We don't know. Since he hasn't posted back again in the thread, it's hard to say.

What we do know, is that others are viewing this thread as well, and some have posted notifying us that they too are considering both projectors. If we simply state that the OP's best choice is the Pio, and don't clarify why, we are doing the others a disservice and misleading them into believing the Pio is the best choice no matter what.

The CIH stipulation has been pointed out several times, so if it's something the OP or others are interested in, they've been made aware that the Panny would be an attractive unit.

The OP also said most of his viewing is cinematic, with the "occasional" (his words) sporting event. It is reasonable to therefore suggest the projector that would better suit the large majority of his viewing. Again, if the frame interpolation is THAT important to the OP for the occasional sporting event, and he's aware of what he'll sacrifice PQ-wise for his majority viewing, then again that info has been made available.

As to the gamut issue...I have owned 2 RS1s, and now have the FPJ1. I used my Radiance to dial in the gamut with my i1Pro and CalMAN, so I am lucky enough to have the advantages of the RSX without the oversaturated gamut. Since the CMS on the Radiance can be easily toggled on and off, I have spent quite a bit of time doing so with various material - both film and computer animated - and in all honesty, although there is material where the gamut oversaturation is noticable, most of the time the difference is very minor. Scenes with lots of saturated greens tended to be the worst, and to a lesser degree the oversaturated reds would sometimes affect skin tones. But on the whole, unless the OP spends a LOT of time viewing a properly calibrated display, the difference to him will probably be minimal.

For a fixed 1.78:1 cinematic setup, I still think the FPJ1 is a better choice for the OP. Hopefully others who are interested in the comparison will specify their wants/needs, which - as you have pointed out - may tip the scales in the opposite direction.

For a fixed 1.78:1 cinematic setup, I still think the FPJ1 is a better choice for the OP. Hopefully others who are interested in the comparison will specify their wants/needs, which - as you have pointed out - may tip the scales in the opposite direction.

I have no problems with folks making recommendations. What I took offense to were the "take the Pio, says me and all the 'experts'" posts, without qualification. You've done a good job of pointing out pro's and con's, and I have no issues with your recommendation Hog. Others, however, have not done such a good job of pointing out pro's and con's, and have simply said take the Pio, it has a better picture and that's that.. I just wanted to make a point to let potential readers know that the panny does have some redeeming qualities. It seems Speednut (one of those 'others' I spoke of) came to the right conclusion, so I guess my work (read: nagging) here is done.

......I have no issues with your recommendation Hog.


I find it offensive that you call him that. How do you know he is not just big boned? ;)

Sorry, sometimes I just can't help it. Carry on.

I can point out a few things that would make me opt for the Panny.

1.Quieter
2.Could be considered portable and easily shelf mountable due to it's size, weight and structure. It is likely more suitable for small room or BR setups than the Pioneer/JVC.
3.Brighter in it's non-optimal mode (for sports, etc)
4. Will likely resell quicker (Ebay, etc) due to popularity.
5.You can buy one and try it out (for less than 4 hours)

How does the Panny deal with miscovergence? Is there an adjustment or are you stuck with it?

Since the FPJ1's lumens are at D65 and is at least as bright if not brighter than the Panny at D65, how much brighter can the FPJ1 get when grayscale accuracy is set aside? How much greater does the contrast ratio get as well?

Another issue to think about when going with the Panasonic is dust blobs. Do you want to worry about that? Burnt polarizers? General reliability of the two units?

What is the zoom ratio of the Panasonic? The FPJ1 has a zoom ratio of 2.0X with a throw of 1.4 to 2.8. It also has a fair amount of both horizontal and vertical lens shift.

Poor man's CIH is not as easy as with the Panasonic, but I would personally not accept an inferior picture quality for the convenience of being able to zoom 2.35:1 more easily.

The Panasonic does have frame interpolation, which I personally did not like when I viewed the unit, but some do. IMO, if frame interpolation is important, I would look at one of the Sony's as I think their PQ probably beats the Panny, based on reviews and not firsthand knowledge. The Epson 1080UB I saw looked better to me than the Panasonic 3000 and the RS2 beat both. I saw all three in the same room on Stewart Firehawks with no amibient light. If ambient light is an issue, I would go with one of the Epsons over the Panasonic, if easier zoom method CIH was not a priority.

What's a shame is I couldn't get a straight answer about how the Pio can handle different content (HD broadcast, HD Sports, Games, PC input) vs. the Panny from anyone so I'm a bit on edge as to if this is a real-deal versatile unit or meant specifically for low-light BD/DVD source viewing.

:confused:

I never noticed any issues watching HD broadcast, HD sports or playing games on either and RS1 or RS20. I play FPS online for well over half my projector usage and have never once noticed motion blur or any problems gaming. I rarely watch television on the pj as I find the quality of HD broadcast over cable to be poor enough on a 50" kuro and even worse when shown on 110".

Low light viewing should be a requirement for any front projector installation. If you can't control ambient light, a flat screen or RPTV will be a better choice.

In this price range, there are going to be tradeoffs no matter what projector you select. Assuming that these so called 'experts' priorities are the same as everyone else's is foolish.

One also have to remember these projectors are not in the same price range. The FPJ1's MSRP is $8995 and the AE3000 is $3499. Now the only reason a comparison is being made is that the FPJ1 is being closed out for under $3k because Pioneer is leaving the TV business.

The FPJ1 should have a lot fewer trade offs since it is not a budget projector. Yes it is not the high end $50k range, but high end of the mainstream projector range.

It is not really fair to Panasonic. They have an excellent projector for the price, if they wanted it to cost $5.5k more they probably could produce a much better one. It would be much more fair if the Panasonic was being closed out for $1500 and the debate was if the FPJ1 gave 2x the performance for 2x the price.

One also have to remember these projectors are not in the same price range. The FPJ1's MSRP is $8995 and the AE3000 is $3499. Now the only reason a comparison is being made is that the FPJ1 is being closed out for under $3k because Pioneer is leaving the TV business.


Where can I get the FPJ1 at the closeout price? Will the FPJ1 work at 12' distance? I'm currently running a BenQ 8700+, and have not visited this forum much recently ...

I found it offensive as after reading your posts here and on the deal thread, it came off as vehemently defending what you purchased without you even having it setup and viewed content for yourself with it, objective comparison be damned.

I didn't recommend anything in my post, I just summarized and took out all of the bashing of doggone and his somewhat off-base responses to get what I posted. The Pio has better PQ and the Panny has more features. And that's from the posters on this thread that I trust.

What's a shame is I couldn't get a straight answer about how the Pio can handle different content (HD broadcast, HD Sports, Games, PC input) vs. the Panny from anyone so I'm a bit on edge as to if this is a real-deal versatile unit or meant specifically for low-light BD/DVD source viewing.

:confused:
Geez.... your offended too? I added to your post cause I agreed with it. My response was mostly towards the dogones of the thread. By the way, i never recommended the pioneer myself... just simply stated what the people i trust said.

I find it offensive that you call him that. How do you know he is not just big boned? ;)

Sorry, sometimes I just can't help it. Carry on.

Actually, I'm a pretty big dude - my gym time is horribly lopsided as I really love lifting. In pilot training, when you land after your initial solo, if you can make it back into your Flight room without being caught, everyone in your class owes you a 6-pack of beer of your choice. I made it halfway back before my classmates got to me, and after it took 6 of them to take me down, I was still low-crawling towards the flight with all of them on my back. They called me "El Toro" for a while because toro (bull) sounds like the beginning of my last name (and it was also my favrorite Mexican place by the base). So the "big" jokes are really just par for me :)

Geez.... your offended too? I added to your post cause I agreed with it. My response was mostly towards the dogones of the thread. By the way, i never recommended the pioneer myself... just simply stated what the people i trust said.

Really? I guess it just came off wrong. It read to me like we shouldn't even have the discussion. Oh well, no worries here :)

Thanks MrLittle for the feedback, I appreciate it!

As for my first REAL FP journey (have a relic Sharp-XVNG1U, so anything I get would be light years better, but it served its purpose and planted the seed for this go around), it still continues, and I'm still down to the fpj1, the AE3000U and the Epson 6500UB, but the Epson is running in 3rd with all of the screwed up issues with it, not something that gives me the "warm and fuzzies" that I won't have to explain to the Mrs. why it's back for repairs for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th time.

Any recommendations for this setup?

120" 16:9 1.1 gain screen, light controlled env. Throw distance right at 12' or if I get creative, 17' behind/below the 5 foot wide ductwork. Seating at about 12', with two 60w lamps that theoretically could be on at the same distance (12').

I've been reading day in and day out and still seem to be where I started, go figure.

I know the Panny would be at full zoom to fill the screen at that throw distance, and the Pio would probably be a few inches shorter due to that ductwork I mentioned, so that's a consideration as well, plus the ability to adapt to a different setup would be a plus.

I guess my biggest concern is that I got buy-in to get all of this from the wife, and if I screw it up the venture capital for a 2.0, 3.0, 20.0 would be slim to nonexistant.

The fact is there are feature pros and cons, yes. That will always be the case, and those certainly will depend on the persons needs/wants. If projector A has a feature that a person wants, projector B does not, then that will make projector A a must. However, in the context of this thread, the question posed is which is better between the Pioneer (RS2 clone) or the Panasonic. TAKING OUT FEATURES, the Pioneer is overall a better performer, and not just because of black levels, but a myriad of reasons (I don't need to go into them all as they are discussed all over the place). So it comes down to if 1 puts more emphasis on features or performance. Sure there are instances where people cannot see much of a difference, but my thought is if someone is asking for help, they want just that...help. Most cannot see these projectors locally so they rely on what others say. I for one always put more emphasis on performance when talking projectors as ultimately you buy it to perform, not to tinker with. My 2 cents.

I say, just be thankful that you have such good projectors to choose from (if it were 5 yrs ago you'd be looking at inferior pjs at 3-5X the price, it IS a great time to jump into fpj) if this is your first pj and you are a not super-picky about one particular parameter of image quality (blacks, accurate color, etc), you will love whichever one you get for what it does well because it will give you an immersive theater experience (and that's just so damn cool its unreal-and your friends will be envious and look at you like you might be on the next MTV Cribs!).
Over the years, you will see setups that do things better than yours (regardless of which you choose) and you will have to start making tough decisions like "does my projector do as well as the new ones at X, Y and Z"...the X, Y and Z will become your new criteria for projector upgrades. If FI and Lens Shift Memory and ambient light viewing are not currently a priority, then go with the Pioneer (or any of the JVCs for that matter)...I think you'll prolong getting the upgrade bug.

Sorry to ramble on...

Sorry to ramble on...

Don't ever do it again. :D Kidding.

Hey everyone, just ordered a FPJ1 for a first projector after going back and forth over these 2 and the 6500...hoping it's a good choice. I've never used 2.35 as I've only had LCD TV's. My room is 17x15. Projector will be hanging from ceiling about 12 feet back. The walls and ceiling are painted black, carpet a dark grey. No windows, just a door leading in and out. Essentially...a cave :).

I play ALOT of PS3, watch HD TV (though we might still use the TV for that), watch alot of sports, and alot of blu-rays. The only lights are in the back of the room and can be on/off or dimmed. They will be off for movies, and on/dimmed during gaming or TV most likely.

Did I make a good decision on my projector purchase? Any advice for a screen type or size? Haven't decided if I want to order a 2.35 or a 16:9 screen yet. Also when i look up rec. screens it seems to say that I need the classic white or whatever the regular ones are vs. the Brilliant White or the High Power but most seem to go w/ the latter.

Which one of these is more "versatile" based on input? The consensus here seems to be for movies / cinema that the fpj1 has the upper hand. How does it perform with the AE3000 with HD Broadcast / cable, SD (ugh no ESPNU HD in my area), gaming, and possible PC display output?

I would like to know this too.

I think another way of phrasing what others have said in this thread.. "If picture quality is not your main concern, then the Panasonic might be a better choice."

Another issue to think about when going with the Panasonic is dust blobs. Do you want to worry about that? Burnt polarizers? General reliability of the two units?

Good questions - and maybe I missed the answers in the subtleties of the posts here - what are the answers? Is there a big (expected) longevity difference between the two? Are LCoS PJ's more immune to dust - blobs or otherwise?

And gosh darn it, just when I finally get $2500 pushed through the home budget, you're telling me "...just 400 more..." :p I'll have to go back to my wife, hat in hand, and tell her we need more cash. Now I feel all icky - like Citibank or GM! I suppose once I get the budget approval for $2900 there'll be *another* gotta-have PJ for $3300. Will the madness never end?!?

Bob

And gosh darn it, just when I finally get $2500 pushed through the home budget, you're telling me "...just 400 more..."

Or, you could look at it like this. For the $2500, you are getting a $2500 projector. In the case of the Pioneer, for $2900, you are getting a projector that was selling for $9000 last month. Even forgetting the "inflated" Pioneer retail price, the JVC RS2 that the Pioneer is underneath the name plate lists for $8000. Even today.

Has anyone used the Pioneer PRO-FPJ1 with a 2.35:1 screen with or without masking?

Good questions - and maybe I missed the answers in the subtleties of the posts here - what are the answers? Is there a big (expected) longevity difference between the two? Are LCoS PJ's more immune to dust - blobs or otherwise?

And gosh darn it, just when I finally get $2500 pushed through the home budget, you're telling me "...just 400 more..." :p I'll have to go back to my wife, hat in hand, and tell her we need more cash. Now I feel all icky - like Citibank or GM! I suppose once I get the budget approval for $2900 there'll be *another* gotta-have PJ for $3300. Will the madness never end?!?

Bob

fpj1 has a sealed light path

Would the Sony VPLVW70 handle the vertical stretch mode better than the Pioneer Projo? I am looking at these two projectors along with a Stewart Cinecurve screen.

Good questions - and maybe I missed the answers in the subtleties of the posts here - what are the answers? Is there a big (expected) longevity difference between the two? Are LCoS PJ's more immune to dust - blobs or otherwise?

And gosh darn it, just when I finally get $2500 pushed through the home budget, you're telling me "...just 400 more..." :p I'll have to go back to my wife, hat in hand, and tell her we need more cash. Now I feel all icky - like Citibank or GM! I suppose once I get the budget approval for $2900 there'll be *another* gotta-have PJ for $3300. Will the madness never end?!?

Bob

As long as you don't ask her for the extra money while sipping a $600 glass of Henri IV cognac and smoking a Cuban cigar while having a stripper pole installed in your HT...you'll be a far cry from GM (but you'd be a LOT cooler if you did!)

But seriously, the Panasonic or even Epson is a damn fine piece of machinery for $2499, its equal couldn't be found for three times that 5 years ago (I'd hate to have to go back for more money too) The only way I'd say stretch out that extra 400 is if you have a completely light controlled room, in which case you will see the extra quality in the FPJ1.

My wife gave me the green light for $3K with the understanding that no fp I could buy would impress her as she likes cornea-searing whites and super vivid, over-saturated colors, ala-LCD...now, I've thought've going with a high power and RS10 (or Epson 6500) and seeing if I can etch my name on the sofa with that puppy...anyone else got a better idea for overly bright and punchy pj combos?

Or, you could look at it like this. For the $2500, you are getting a $2500 projector. In the case of the Pioneer, for $2900, you are getting a projector that was selling for $9000 last month. Even forgetting the "inflated" Pioneer retail price, the JVC RS2 that the Pioneer is underneath the name plate lists for $8000. Even today.

I know what you mean! I just recently bought a 100 gig hard drive to upgrade my computer for $50!! That thing was over $300 a few years ago, I got a steal!

fpj1 has a sealed light path
That's good to know, thanks! Any opinions on the longevity issue? I'm in the market now because the LCD's on my old Epson 9000i are dying a slow death (got my 5000 hours out of them). I actually like(d) the picture quality on that old beast, but I suspect that's because I can't A/B it with one of the new ones.

As long as you don't ask her for the extra money while sipping a $600 glass of Henri IV cognac and smoking a Cuban cigar while having a stripper pole installed in your HT...you'll be a far cry from GM (but you'd be a LOT cooler if you did!)

No to mention single...:cool: After the lawyers got done with me I'd have to ask the moderators here at AVS to start a "Display Devices Under $75" Forum topic.

But seriously, the Panasonic or even Epson is a damn fine piece of machinery for $2499, its equal couldn't be found for three times that 5 years ago (I'd hate to have to go back for more money too) The only way I'd say stretch out that extra 400 is if you have a completely light controlled room, in which case you will see the extra quality in the FPJ1.

You're right, it seems like we have an embarrassment of riches here. Light does become an issue in the late afternoon for me, since I have a large glass french door that lets a bit of light leak in. Current wood blinds aren't cutting-it. I haven't put up any blackout drapes yet (but they're on an upcoming appropriations bill). I also spend a considerable amount of my HT time watching concert videos (95% are SD DVD) and HD sports, so I'm intrigued by what FI would do for those. Just about every Saturday in the fall my PJ comes on at noon with the first football game and goes off after midnight when the West Coast teams get done playing. I do watch some BDs through my HTPC, but the vast majority of my catalog is SD DVD. I haven't been bitten by the bluray bug too hard yet - hence my collection is small - but I suspect it's because my old Epson doesn't do them justice.

Bob

...Well, I thought about writing "deeper black" but "improved black" seemed like more of a compliment. Too funny - when I first glanced at your user name I thought it was "Sharpton". I immediatly thought "Oh lord, AVS forum is going to be on CNN tonight...I could not understand how someone could confuse Sherardp with Sharpton, so I have chalked it up to "mentally challenged". I thought about writing “extreme retardation caused by generational incest” but “mentally challenged” seemed more of a compliment. It really is important not to have one’s aunt and mother be the same person, but I understand the rules are different in the mountains :D.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, anyone else have thoughts about the longevity/reliability issue of LCoS over LCD? I've read a lot of posts stating that DLP has a big edge there, but not much about LCoS.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way, anyone else have thoughts about the longevity/reliability issue of LCoS over LCD? I've read a lot of posts stating that DLP has a big edge there, but not much about LCoS.

I know this isn't the answer your looking for, but my thoughts are that if any of them make it 5 years, it's plenty for me. Look back 5 years ago. The replacement bulbs for those projectors (if you can find them?) are worth more than the projector. Point being, in 5 years you'll be able to buy a cheap projector to replace one you would buy today for the price of a bulb, and the new one will destroy the old one in PQ and features (not to mention potentially new video spec's and such).

So I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not concerned with long term reliability (short term, yes). We are in a dispose-of-and-replace electronic society now, it's generally the most cost efficient way to do things.

As a side note, I made peace with this theory when I went to buy ink cartridges for my home printer. The black and color cartridges cost more than the $59 new printer I bought, which had fresh new cartridges too.

Yes and no. If the FPJ1 is really all it's being cracked-up to be, then I can't imagine that the PQ on future projectors is going to be dramatically better in 5 years. I have a hard time now telling the difference between good 1080i and 720p content. My point being that my eyes probably won't be able to appreciate the improvement - at least not enough to want to shell out another $3K. Or maybe so. I'm really looking forward to the day we can get rid of these halogen lamps and move to LED.

And I know exactly what you're saying about the printer cartridges, too. Except that that's their business model - lose money selling you the printer, make it back - and then some - by selling you the cartridges. I hope that's not a model that the PJ mfgrs are following. Our landfills are filling-up quickly enough as it is. I'm also one of those guys who's still using a 27" Sony Trinitron that I bought 24 years ago. I'll bet there are a few folks on this forum who still use CRT PJs that they got last century.

I've been reading a lot of horror stories about LCDs taking a dirt nap after less than 2000 hours of use - maybe that's just anecdote and not based on real-world statistics. I know that LCD's will eventually burn up their polarizers. I also hear about how organic panels will go out before inorganic ones. I haven't heard similar stories about LCoS PJs, but don't they have polarizers, too? I'm just trying to increase my odds of having a PJ that will last at least 5 years, hopefully a little longer.

The FPJ1 is a great PJ, but it also has plenty of room for improvement. Lasers coupled with a single chip (LCoS, DLP, whatever) could simultaneously boost on/off CR to near-infinite while allowing more light output and no convergence issues; faster LCoS panels could eliminate display-induced motion blur; a full (and properly functioning) CMS to allow the user to set the gamut would be nice; 4K resolution coupled with the higher laser-based light output could allow zooming for CIH instead of the use of an expensive lens. And that's just off the top of my head.

Yes and no. If the FPJ1 is really all it's being cracked-up to be, then I can't imagine that the PQ on future projectors is going to be dramatically better in 5 years

Well, it's possible what you say is true, but I think it to be unlikely. Take for example, today. What's the cheapest PJ you can get? Probably one around the cost of a replacement bulb right? (less than $500? or even cheaper?). Now, take that PJ and compare it to something that sold 5 years ago, especially something in the $2k price range which was already a year old (and maybe a higher price range). I'll bet you that the current cheap piece o' junk PJ beats that 5 year old model in just about every way. I haven't done any research on this, it's just a theory based on how electronics progress, but one that I'm willing to embrace for my buying decisions nonetheless.

I don't mean to discount your concern over longevity of the current PJ's. Some people like to use stuff for a long time, and that's fine. I used to be one of them, I'm just saying I realized it often doesn't make the most sense (or cents). Alternatively, you may want to use that second PJ in another room in 5 years. So, I'm not saying longevity doesn't matter for you, I'm just saying that for me (and possibly many others like me) I don't really care as long as it makes it 5 years.

So I'm going to read between the lines and surmise that LCoS is NOT generally advertised for having a longer life than LCD. As far as PQ goes, there comes a time when your source material becomes a limiting factor. I've read in a few places where people were non-plus about the FPJ1 viewing SD DVDs (at least in comparison to others in the class). At some point, trying to improve SD material becomes like putting lipstick on a pig (no offense intended, HogPilot :p). I hear many people grouse about the 24 fps rate of most films viewing 1080p24 (which is why so many of the new features in PJs try to improve on that in one way or another: FI, 120 Hz RR, different pulldown ratio support, etc.). I remember watching the remake of "Walking Tall" at the theater and when the camera panned slowly across the white picket fence in front of a house - it looked terrible (stuttered, juddered, fluttered, whatever). I thought to myself "if I get this on DVD I have to remember that this is on the original film and not my HTPC doing a crappy job." Going beyond 1080p resolution would be pointless for most people, since their eyes won't see the difference. Better CR is good, but is a somewhat losing proposition (or let's say diminishing returns) in a non-batcave environment.

Having said all that, people have been predicting the iminent demise of Moore's Law for a long time now, and engineers keep finding a way to prove them wrong. And you guys are right, there's lots of room for improvement, if moreso in implementation than actual PQ. And I probably will get bitten by the upgrade bug long before the next 5 years are up. I just want it to be my choice, not because my new PJ has given up the ghost. And speaking of fences, I guess I need to get off one and pull the trigger on a new FPJ1.

Better CR is good, but is a somewhat losing proposition (or let's say diminishing returns) in a non-batcave environment.



Seriously, I just hooked up my fpj1 and the contrast is fantastic in the scenes that are all dark but I noticed when I was watching tv and a standard def commercial came up (all bright in center with pillar bars) the pillar bars are illuminated by the white carpet (walls painted black).

So I'm going to read between the lines and surmise that LCoS is NOT generally advertised for having a longer life than LCD.

I'm not the expert here but I have seen an RS1 with the original bulb at 3500 hours and no reports of trouble were mentioned. It still looked great.
As far as quality in general I would much prefer JVC over my Panasonic experiences.
Especially "premium" JVC products.

I posted this several replies up. Has anyone tried the 2.35:1 mode on this projo with an anamorphic lens?

Seriously, I just hooked up my fpj1 and the contrast is fantastic in the scenes that are all dark but I noticed when I was watching tv and a standard def commercial came up (all bright in center with pillar bars) the pillar bars are illuminated by the white carpet (walls painted black).

White carpet in a room with black walls? You're almost there, get some black throw rugs that you can keep for watching that extend a few feet out in front of your screen. Or, just go whole hog and get black carpeting!