This weekend I went to a Best Buy and they had the Canon HF11.

I fell in love.

The camera fits so nicely in my hand and the buttons are perfectly placed plus the form factor is beautiful that I pretty much have my mind set on buying this one.

However, the Canon HF200 is coming out just before I leave for vacation (I'm going in the beginning of May most likely) but it has some pros and cons.

HF11:
* Bigger sensor, better for low light.
* Built-in 32 GB.
* Proven to be a solid camera.

HF200:
* Smaller sensor but higher resolution. Better for day light?
* Larger zoom (15x) versus HF11's 12x zoom.
* Newer DIGIC chip. Might be worse than older chip?
* No built-in memory. (not a horrible thing I suppose)
* Slated to be $50 cheaper than current price of HF11.

What do you guys think?

I was considering waiting for the HF200 as well, but jumped on the HF100 about a week ago.

I have not heard anything mentioned as far as improvements in compression performance goes, which was really my main concern with the HF100/10/11 models. After seeing that the HF200 had a smaller CMOS chip, I figured there is no way it could be significantly better...

I decided on the HF100 as an acceptable compromise. I figure we're a couple of years away from truely mature AVCHD cameras. I must admit, the HF100 performs better then I expected.

24P footage looks worse then I hoped, but maybe I should just accept that I'm not skilled enough to shoot in 24P...

What do you guys think?


If the image quality of the HF200 is on par or better than the HF11, I'd most likely get the HF200. If it's worse than the HF11, then I'd definitely get the HF11. I'm just waiting for some in-depth reviews that concentrate on the smaller sensor's performance.

If the image quality of the HF200 is on par or better than the HF11, I'd most likely get the HF200. If it's worse than the HF11, then I'd definitely get the HF11. I'm just waiting for some in-depth reviews that concentrate on the smaller sensor's performance.

As mentioned before..same here.

The HF20/200 has the smaller sensor, but higher resolution. Seeing 1/4-inch in the specs has a negative effect on my perception, only because of other cams that have had that sensor size.

But what I'm really taking into consideration is that it's newer technology. The newer image processor might handle the 24mbps better and have a smoother playback as a result.
I don't know, but I'm considering they have probably tweaked a lot of things since the HF10/11; things that won't necessarily be mentioned in the specs; like firmware or maybe the camcorder doesn't get as hot, etc.

Unless a review site, like camcorderinfo, gives some major warning on the quality of the small sensor, I'm leaning towards the HF20. Canon has a reputation to maintain; I doubt they would release something with unacceptable quality.

Do major review sites (Camcorderinfo.com, etc) typically do reviews before the cameras are released?

Like I've mentioned before, I'm worried because the HF200 is coming out just about two weeks before I leave for vacation (if Amazon.com's April 15th release date is correct).

Also, the HF20 looks nice but is out of my price range. However, it looks like both feature "Pre-3" which records 3-seconds before you push record. That's a pretty awesome feature and yet another reason to buy the HF200/HF20 over the HF11. I just wish the darn sensor wasn't so much smaller!

Do major review sites (Camcorderinfo.com, etc) typically do reviews before the cameras are released?

Like I've mentioned before, I'm worried because the HF200 is coming out just about two weeks before I leave for vacation (if Amazon.com's April 15th release date is correct).

Also, the HF20 looks nice but is out of my price range. However, it looks like both feature "Pre-3" which records 3-seconds before you push record. That's a pretty awesome feature and yet another reason to buy the HF200/HF20 over the HF11. I just wish the darn sensor wasn't so much smaller!

I'm pretty sure they will review it before release; they get advanced/loaned a camcorder by the company.

I hear you about the sensor - but you don't know if that really will matter - it might not matter considering other factors.

It's a shame that you have to buy a camcorder right when it's released. If you're willing to pay $750 for the HF200, when it's released, then you actually could afford the HF20 if you were able to wait a couple of months because it will definitely go down.

sofakng, I just wanted to add that, if the HF11 drops a bit in the next month - like you can find it for $750, it wouldn't be a bad choice to get it. It's already been proven to be a good choice: 2008 "Camcorder of the Year" at camcorderinfo.

When I say things like the new processor may handle the data better, I don't know if this will be the case - I haven't read that anywhere; I'm just speculating on these things.

I just wanted to clarify that.

Either camcorder is probably a good choice/just find a good price.

whatever you buy will become out dated a few months after release. Personaly just buy a camera when you need it. I bought the hf11 because my nephew was born last two weeks ago so picked it up for a christmas gift for myself in late nov to film my sister when she was pregnet wand what not and to get the babys first days in the hospital and the baby shower and all that fun stuff.

I plan on keeping the hf 11 untill something comes out that is better than it in every way I figure i have a good 4-5 years before that really happens and mabye then i will be ready to film my kid

Relase date for HF20/200 is 24th of march here in Norway.
If tested by norwegian magazine I could provide some feedback.

I have already ordered the HF200 :)

Relase date for HF20/200 is 24th of march here in Norway.
If tested by norwegian magazine I could provide some feedback.

I have already ordered the HF200 :)

Can you post some video examples then?

Can you post some video examples then?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1128709

I can hardly wait to hear feedback on the HF200.
Just a matter of is it worth the price over the HF100.

I have been quite surprised by the lack of reviews on the new models. I decided to hold off on a purchase until they came out..but didn't imagine it would be so soon before the release dates.

I have been quite surprised by the lack of reviews on the new models. I decided to hold off on a purchase until they came out..but didn't imagine it would be so soon before the release dates.

Same here

HF20 review is up on camcorderinfo.com. They seem to be reporting that the HF11 is better, especially in low light.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-Vixia-HF20-Camcorder-Review-36314.htm

look at the resolution numbers, tho:

"The Canon HF20 has the best video resolution we've ever recorded on a consumer camcorder and its scores are comparable to some of the professional models we've tested (like the Sony HDR-FX1000 (Review, Specs, Recent News, $3069.00) and Canon XL H1A (Specs, Recent News, $5999.00)). The camcorder measured an approximate video resolution of 800 line widths per picture height (lw/ph) horizontal and 900 lw/ph vertical. This is a huge bump up from the 675 lw/ph horizontal and 600 lw/ph vertical recorded by last year's Canon HF11..."

HF20 review is up on camcorderinfo.com. They seem to be reporting that the HF11 is better, especially in low light.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-Vixia-HF20-Camcorder-Review-36314.htm
Just read through this. It looks like I'll be ordering the HF11 or HF10.

I've posted another topic asking about the difference (between the HF10 and HF11) because it seems like the cameras are identical except for the extra internal storage (which is NOT worth an extra $100 or $200).

look at the resolution numbers, tho:

"The Canon HF20 has the best video resolution we've ever recorded on a consumer camcorder and its scores are comparable to some of the professional models we've tested (like the Sony HDR-FX1000 (Review, Specs, Recent News, $3069.00) and Canon XL H1A (Specs, Recent News, $5999.00)). The camcorder measured an approximate video resolution of 800 line widths per picture height (lw/ph) horizontal and 900 lw/ph vertical. This is a huge bump up from the 675 lw/ph horizontal and 600 lw/ph vertical recorded by last year's Canon HF11..."

Yeah, but it's a tradeoff with noise. I'd sacrifice some resolution if it means no noise, but it would still be nice to get my hands on some sample footage so that I can make my own call.

Hmmm, that makes it seem like the HF20 is in-fact better except for maybe low-light?

I'm confused though because CamcorderInfo said the camera was a disappointment and made it sound like the HF11 was the better purchase.

Hmmm, that makes it seem like the HF20 is in-fact better except for maybe low-light?

Poor low light sensitivity and very high noise levels

Compared to its older sister, the HF20 is a significantly worse low light performer and it consistently measured high levels of noise in our testing.


Probably because of an over-zealous sharpening algorithm. Detail is obviously a great thing to have, but not at the expense of added, visible, noise. Hopefully we'll start seeing some video samples the first week of April when people start getting them in the mail.

I'm confused though because CamcorderInfo said the camera was a disappointment and made it sound like the HF11 was the better purchase.

In general, that's what I got out of their review as well.

it's a tradeoff... the hf20 has 15x zoom, compared to the 13x zoom on the hf11.

i'm wondering if camcorderinfo had a defective unit... maybe the way to do this is to take your sd card down to the local best buy or whatever, and shoot some footage inside the store, just to test the low-light performance.

I read camcorderinfo review of HF20 and I do not agree with their conclusion. The only problem is low-light performance and low-light noise. But I think this can be corrected with manual settings. Opposite, I like video resolution and bright light performance. I will buy HF200 as soon as they will have it in stock here in Slovakia - maybe next week

To be fair, let me just say that the camcorder I end up buying will only be used for travel. I have no need to record something in low light, unless I'm shooting the interior of a building or such. Having said that, I'm still a bit perplexed by the wording of the review:

The Canon HF20 registered a high level of noise, averaging roughly 0.93% in our bright light testing. Canon usually has high noise levels on its HD camcorders and the HF S100 showed us similar numbers. Keep in mind, however, that in bright light this noise can be difficult to notice. It's really not until you start recording in low or moderate light situations that it becomes a problem.

I wonder what they consider to be "moderate light situations." I can't find a value from the HF11 review to reflect the noise in bright light, so I can't really compare one to the other, which is unfortunate. Still waiting to hear from real world owners and see some sample footage sometime in the next couple of weeks.

If you go in the comments section, bottom of any page of the HF20 review, camcorderinfo editor Jeremy Stamas posted additional data on the HF11. (Mar 27, 2009 11:23 AM)

Editor Kaitlyn also makes some comments a couple posts before him.

I've never followed camcorder releases before, but what is a guesstimate as to when prices might start dropping on the new releases such as the HF20? I'm assuming real soon since few places actually sell at MSRP.

I've never followed camcorder releases before, but what is a guesstimate as to when prices might start dropping on the new releases such as the HF20? I'm assuming real soon since few places actually sell at MSRP.

go to http://www.nextag.com type in a product name, for example "HG20" and then click on the link for the camcorder...It will show a graph with the price history of the product from the total retailers.. how fast it dropped over months/years.

I read camcorderinfo review of HF20 and I do not agree with their conclusion. The only problem is low-light performance and low-light noise. But I think this can be corrected with manual settings. Opposite, I like video resolution and bright light performance. I will buy HF200 as soon as they will have it in stock here in Slovakia - maybe next week

I agree.

Low-light ability is near the bottom of my list. This camcorder is
800 line widths per picture height (lw/ph) horizontal and 900 lw/ph vertical!

My HF100 is 675 x 600 this camcorder is near pro level at 800x900!

I never use gain on my HF100, it's ALWAYS set at sunset mode(or Spotlight).

So in my book line width>low-light

ABT has the HF 20 in stock for the best price I have seen so far. Rod

Wow, this is such a tough decision!

I'm still up in the air between the HG20, HF11, and HF20.

I'm almost willing to pull the trigger on the HF20 but I would like decent low-light performance (eg. fireworks at Disney, etc). Anybody know if any comparison video footage is available? That would be very, very helpful.

ABT has the HF 20 in stock for the best price I have seen so far. Rod

I was ready to buy it, but when I placed it into my cart, it was back to $899. That was a short sale.

Damn!!!

I was just about to order this too!

Camcorderinfo editor posted this update in the comments section of the HF20 review:
David Kender
89 Posts - Member Since Feb 08 Mar 30, 2009 3:22 PM
This review has been edited.

Please note that all the 2009 consumer camcorder reviews received a small adjustment in their scoring.
- The formula for deriving the Video Noise score (tested under bright light settings) was adjusted.
- The weighting for Noise (in bright light) was decreased.
- The weighting for Color accuracy (in bright light) was increased.
- The weighting for Video Resolution was increased.

No testing methods were changed. This is just the editorial staff making final adjustments on the new 2009-2010 scoring rubric.

Thank you,

- Editor in Chief
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-Vixia-HF20-Camcorder-Review-36314/Specs-and-Ratings.htm

Damn!!!

I was just about to order this too!

I'm pretty sure it's 100% related to them having it in stock. When I wanted to click "buy," it was stating that it was out of stock. Maybe when they get it back in the price will be $100 less again. It's probably a good thing though, as I'm really interested to hear from owners & their opinions of the new Sanyo FH1.

I'm in a similar boat, and am looking for some opinions. The Saga? I ordered an HF11 from Canon 2 weeks ago. Today it "shipped" (though it hasn't left the Amazon warehouse and could be called back). Ended up paying $799 for it. Why did I order the HF11 so close to the new releases? Well, I didn't think the new camcorders were going to be here until 4/15, and my wife and I have a baby due to arrive soon (after 4/15, but I wanted to play with it a bit beforehand).

So now, my question is: Keep the HF11, or go to the HFS100? While money is not an issue, if it isn't worth it, I'd prefer not to spend another $350.00 ($300 more for the HFS100, $50 for the SD card).

It looks to me like with the HF11, I'd be gaining internal memory, save some money, and 12x zoom. With the HFS100, I'd be getting higher quality video (how much higher quality?), more flexibility with using SD cards. Any thoughts on the low light on the HFS100? Is it worse, like the HF200 is? Or is it a different (larger?) chip?

In other words, for a newly growing family, with a baby, who wants an HD camcorder that will last quite a while, is the HFS100 worth the extra $350? Or should I just stick with the HF11?

you can shoot directly to the sd card on the hf11, that's how i do it these days.

you can also do an internal copy from the hf11 memory to the sd card, but not the other way... copying to the sd card means that you can get the footage off of the camera quicker, because the usb connection is really slow to transfer footage... but that is rather minor in the grand scheme of things.

if the hf11 is better in low-light, you may want to consider keeping it, because most of what you'll be shooting with a new baby is going to be indoors, won't it??

looking at the resolution advances with these camcorders since the hf11 came out, in another year or two the state of the art will be much better than the hfs100, so that may be the time to replace the hf11.

you can shoot directly to the sd card on the hf11, that's how i do it these days.

you can also do an internal copy from the hf11 memory to the sd card, but not the other way... copying to the sd card means that you can get the footage off of the camera quicker, because the usb connection is really slow to transfer footage... but that is rather minor in the grand scheme of things.

if the hf11 is better in low-light, you may want to consider keeping it, because most of what you'll be shooting with a new baby is going to be indoors, won't it??

looking at the resolution advances with these camcorders since the hf11 came out, in another year or two the state of the art will be much better than the hfs100, so that may be the time to replace the hf11.

Thanks for the tidbits.. I think you are confirming what I was already thinking. One of my bigger concerns was shooting in low light. And if the HFS100 did poorly in low light, it would definitely be a nail in the coffin. I also should recognize, that I am new to camcorders, and don't need the latest and greatest.. Part of my photographer side (where I am quite experienced, and have the skill/knowledge that a features of the new generation DSLR can be useful) keeps pushing its "want the latest and greatest" head into the conversation ;).

I didn't realize the HF11 could do SD cards as well. I guess I had read it, but it hadn't really registered with me. For a camcorder, I am really looking at a 5-year plan- I'd like it to comfortably last 5 years, before replacing it, so I didn't want to be "stuck" with an HF11, if I would "outgrow" it quickly (yeah right ;) ).

Well, I called the ABT folks last night and they gave me the $799.99 price but said it wouldn't be in stock for about another 10 days. I went ahead and placed the order but still might cancel it in exchange for the HF11.

Such tough decisions.

I'm also tempted to just order both camcorders and return the one I don't like as much.

Anybody get an HF20 or HF200 yet? If so, what do you think?

Anybody get an HF20 or HF200 yet? If so, what do you think?

I have HF200, it is great camera, picture is very sharp and detailed, but it have bigger noise in low light. This weekend I will try to edit videos on PC

Thanks to everyone for all the inputs in this forum and across the internet, especially camcorderinfo.com, testfreaks.com,camcorder-test.slashcam.com and other sites like vimeo, for all the efforts people have taken to post the screenshots, MTS and/or MPG files for comparisons.

I joined this forum only to thank everyone and share the following info.

I ordered the HF11 online for $700. I then went to Best Buy and with their permission, compared it with both HF20 and HFS10 display models with exactly the same settings (60i, Program AE, AWB).

I focused specifically on the home theater section of the Best Buy which was very dimly lit.

I was surprised at how way superior HF11 was. There is absolutely no confusion now in mind that HF11 beats both HF20 and HFS10 when it comes to this aspect. camcorderinfo.com's reading of HFS10's low light noise is better than HF11, but in reality, HF11 doesn't seem comparable at all. I don't know why though. I am convinced there is a clear reason why camcorderinfo.com rated HF11 the best of 2008.

Hope this helps others. I know HF10/HF100 would have been a more economical choice but I only found HF11 available in reliable(no headaches) stores at the moment.

I don't know if it is normal but HF11 seems to be generating a bit of warmth to sometimes bordering hot/heat, not sure if this is normal for HD camcorders especially the ones processing at 24mbps. Anyone has any inputs on this? Is this normal? Early response is appreciated as I have 14 days to exchange it for a different piece if it is not normal.