I am sure this issue has been covered before,but after today, I felt starting a discussion might be in order.
With all the firmware updates required to remain functional or compatible, I am thinking about changing our byline from "Home Electronics Specialists", to "Firmware Update Specialists"
The last couple of days have been a good example.
On one big home theater we updated the firmware on the DPI Titan projector,PS3,Sony BDP300 Bluray player and Lumagen Radiance Processor. Of course there are improvements to be had with such firmware updates.The picture actually might have improved just a little,but the funny part is that after all our good intentions, our client called this evening to indicate the Guide was reading backwards on Directv?
The only possible reason for this is the DPI projector must have changed or reset its geometry setting after we powered it down at the end of our time on site.Bummer! I am going to be on the phone with DPI tomorrow to see what is going on.Some kind of new firmware glitch I am sure.
We did have to write down our settings for geometry and other areas before loading the firmware update.As per DPI's instructions.We put all the settings back when we restarted the Titan.The guide was reading properly when we left. No save mode required on settings in the Titan.So who knows.Customer without a functioning system for tonight :(
The main reason for our service call was to eliminate intermittent HDCP handshake issues with several of the components. Especially the Lumagen and DPI projector. The projector uses a DVI connection which as opposed to HDMI connections, does not use any form of equalization on the signal, so even a short distance at 1080p 60hz is causing problems.We are going to add a repeater equalizer of some sort tomorrow.We already tried different cables and swapped out the Radiance without success.All the firmware upgrades did not help with the HDCP problems at all.
I can see how some installation companies are sticking with component signals! I would not be continuing to troubleshoot a bunch of HDCP related issues with components. About 15 man hours worth.
Just venting,but I would be interested in hearing how other individuals or companies are handling these potential nightmare connection issues!
Thanks

Even an idiot (like me) can update firmware on the Lumagen Radiance. I have many, many times. And I did this before on my prior Lumagen video processors/scalers, too. And Blu Ray and HD DVD player updates, too. Even my Sim2 C3X 1080 projector!!!

As for your projector, if the guide reads backwards on DirecTV, sounds like simply a position setting in the projector menu, that when you updated the projector firmware it went to default settings. I can't see how the projector would have the picture correct for everything but a DirecTV menu, that doesn't make sense.

Nice of you to use the digital video. My impression is lotsa installers use analog component video to avoid HDMI digital video type hassles that come up, despite being an inferior picture in many cases in doing so.

I placed in wall a 50' DVI Gear Super High Resolution cable, with an EQer, and no problems with my picture. However, if I take off the EQer from the cable end, then I get the sparklies, and other problems.

HDMI cable is subject to funny things if angled too much, etc. On our plasma in our family room, the HDMI cable was tight against the back wall, no picture. So we cutout the wall just a tad to give the HDMI cable breathing room and picture is fine.

Hah yeah, most of the last few weeks we've been running around upgrading PS3s, BD players, receivers, projectors etc. There's not enough time in the year to upgrade every customer's everything!

The Radiance XD is HDMI 1.1. The PS 3 is 1.3. If I set the PS 3 to 1080p 60hz and hook directly(same cable) to the DPI projector, no sparklies.The new XE Radiance with 1.3 would certainly eliminate the problem. It just irks me to have to jump through so many hoops just to watch tv?
The repeater hopefully will do the trick,without having to update the Radiance.I also wonder why DPI uses DVI on a home theater projector?
Hopefully they also have an explanation and or fix for the geometry glitch.

I don't think the Radiance HDMI 1.1 vs 1.3 has anything to do with your sparklies. You have a long HDMI cable length to the projector which should have a cable with EQ.
HDMI 1.1 vs 1.3 has been discussed ad nauseum here at AVS and the only true benefit is 1.3 allows bitstream transmission of new high rez audio formats whereas 1.1 allows only PCM transmission of those formats. With 1.1 the player decodes hi rez audio, with 1.3 the receiver/surround processor can do the decoding.

My Radiance comes back as an HDMI 1.3 tomorrow!!!

"Even an idiot (like me) can update firmware on the Lumagen Radiance. I have many, many times. And I did this before on my prior Lumagen video processors/scalers, too. And Blu Ray and HD DVD player updates, too. Even my Sim2 C3X 1080 projector!"

I like to buy stuff that works out of the box. I like to install it and have it live a long life in the home with out me ever seeing it again.

There is a very distinct "good enough to ship fix it later" mentality in this industry and it costs the installers a lot of money.

I don't think the Radiance HDMI 1.1 vs 1.3 has anything to do with your sparklies. You have a long HDMI cable length to the projector which should have a cable with EQ.
HDMI 1.1 vs 1.3 has been discussed ad nauseum here at AVS and the only true benefit is 1.3 allows bitstream transmission of new high rez audio formats whereas 1.1 allows only PCM transmission of those formats. With 1.1 the player decodes hi rez audio, with 1.3 the receiver/surround processor can do the decoding.

My Radiance comes back as an HDMI 1.3 tomorrow!!!

The PS3 is 1.3 and provides a sparkle free image directly to the projectorOn the same cable.
Jim at Lumagen felt an upgrade to 1.3 would solve the issues.The cable is 30 feet or so. As mentioned I am going to try the repeater eq first.
When you get the Radiance back,why not try it without the additional eq? Just to confirm the improved 1.3 performance?
Thanks

The PS3 is 1.3 and provides a sparkle free image directly to the projectorOn the same cable.
Jim at Lumagen felt an upgrade to 1.3 would solve the issues.The cable is 30 feet or so. As mentioned I am going to try the repeater eq first.
When you get the Radiance back,why not try it without the additional eq? Just to confirm the improved 1.3 performance?
Thanks


If you ship the Radiance to Lumagen say on Monday you'll have it back the following week Wed or Thur upgraded to HDMI 1.3

Updating Bluray players must be the worst case situation for firmware updates? Sony's players would not play newer discs without the update!
How does Sony get the majority of Bluray purchasers to upgrade? Best Buy is not going to be a much help? We add a network connection for the Bluray to all our installations.
How many have been returned?
Lumagen uses firmware to upgrade performance as opposed to fixing issues. At least out of beta. That is tolerable.Still requires truck rolls etc.

What custom installers an inexpensive like Atom laptop which is permanently in the theater. It comes on weekly or monthly, automatically checks each component to which its connected via wireless web for any firmware/software update, turns on each component as it does this, and when everything is done, everything shuts off.
Its set to come on say 3 AM.

HA!!!

The product of the future for custom installers. All you need to do is get electronics manufacturers to agree on a connection format (USB, RS-232, etc) so this can be done.
You guys need to complain to CEDIA and get them to work on this product. We can call the mini-laptop the BRUZER (after me of course)!@@@

I have an Acer Atom computer just for this purpose, though the software is not available to just do it automatically and you'd have to have a USB hub and USB to Serial cables. You *could* do it with a remote access program for some gear, but a lot of gear requires you to cut the power and do other functions in order to take the firmware. If only it were as easy as you're thinking. I have suggested to companies to develop a unit that handles RS-232 control and product updates in combination with a remote control. Sonos gear is nice because it upgrades very easily. Probably the best updating software of any gear on the market.

I added the Key Digital HDMI repeater equalizer just before the input to the DPI projector. No sparklies and the HDCP issues are seemingly gone as well.
DPI should transition to HDMI on new models?
I did note that the Lexicon MC12HD EQ processor needs a firmware update. It can lock up with certain Dolby Digital signals. Hopefully the firmware helps with that.
Hopefully things stay reliable for awhile!

I added the Key Digital HDMI repeater equalizer just before the input to the DPI projector. No sparklies and the HDCP issues are seemingly gone as well.
DPI should transition to HDMI on new models?
I did note that the Lexicon MC12HD EQ processor needs a firmware update. It can lock up with certain Dolby Digital signals. Hopefully the firmware helps with that.
Hopefully things stay reliable for awhile!

Told ya EQ is all it was. HAAAAAA!!! Pretty good for a non-custom installer.

The DVI socket on the projector is in front of a fully HDMI 1.3 compliant chipset, however it is extremely sensitive to the cable choice.

The reason to use a DVI socket over HDMI is simple - you can screw the plug in so it won't fall out!

Here in Europe we only use DVI Gear cables which work perfect up to 15m and then 25m with the ACE equaliser. If we are going any longer then it is a no brainer to simply use an optical cable to be certain there are no issues.

Neil

The DVI socket on the projector is in front of a fully HDMI 1.3 compliant chipset, however it is extremely sensitive to the cable choice.

The reason to use a DVI socket over HDMI is simple - you can screw the plug in so it won't fall out!

Here in Europe we only use DVI Gear cables which work perfect up to 15m and then 25m with the ACE equaliser. If we are going any longer then it is a no brainer to simply use an optical cable to be certain there are no issues.

Neil
1.3 is about a week old ;) Most source products are lower versions of HDMI. We have used the Lumagen Radiance(1080p 60hz) on a dozen different projectors and flat panels at distances exceeding 75 feet with no difficulties. I could not make it 25' to the DVI input on the Titan.
I could have updated the Lumagen to 1.3 for about a Grand or the repeater was about 1/10 that price.
I suppose over time everything will be 1.3 and DPI can maintain their DVI connection as a more reliable interface?

my favourite was when i worked for k. when an upgrade went GA, the system seamlessly downloaded it over the internet in the background (it would look for software every night) then the system waited for 4 hours of no activity, ran the upgrade and rebooted. (about a 2 min process) then the next day customers have new features.

I just loved how smooth and transparent it was. there is nothing i have ever seen that can measure up to it.

Vudu is another one that upgrades automatically and easily.

I had developed software for the last line of projectors I had, they could be upgraded remotely if the projector was connected to the Internet. The software is slick I can use it with a few different models out there. I can reset and debug the system too.

I like to buy stuff that works out of the box. I like to install it and have it live a long life in the home with out me ever seeing it again.

There is a very distinct "good enough to ship fix it later" mentality in this industry and it costs the installers a lot of money.

I agree 100%. I spend so much downtime going back to customers houses for updates/fixes because of products that are "not quite ready for primetime". Frustrating to say the least.

I had developed software for the last line of projectors I had, they could be upgraded remotely if the projector was connected to the Internet. The software is slick I can use it with a few different models out there. I can reset and debug the system too.

You mean you designed all this for Wolf Cinema but they are kaput now? Too bad. If you have this patents and could sell it to projector companies and/or custom installers that would be way cool!!!!

I am selling the software, film gammas and irises as upgrades for Runco's Christies and I am looking at Barco's too.

I am selling the software, film gammas and irises as upgrades for Runco's Christies and I am looking at Barco's too.

I must be losing it.

I thought Planar bought Runco.

Did Runco buy Christie? ("Runco's Christies) ???????

Who owns what in the projector world is more confusing to me that watching Lost.

I agree 100%. I spend so much downtime going back to customers houses for updates/fixes because of products that are "not quite ready for primetime". Frustrating to say the least.

Directv has been upgrading firmware on their DVRs for a couple of years now. I recall when I first got an HR20 DVR it mostly produced blank or black recordings. I suggested to them at the time that they really could not call it a "Video Recorder" as it wasn't recording anything ;)
I soon learned how to "force" beta updates from DBStalk forums. After the next update things started to come together for the HR20. Many updates later it is now very reliable and competitive with most any DVR on the market. Most of the firmware changes are for feature upgrades at this point
It would seem that these products like the HR20 are put on the market in response to competition. Not having a current technology DVR would put Directv behind the sinister Dish network or even worse, cable companies.
So they push the product into the marketplace,knowing they can fix it automatically without the customers having being involved. Reboots not withstanding :)
How about the largest updater of all; "Microsoft". It would seem almost impossible to supply a product that would not require updates within a short time of introduction. Even Apple requires huge files of update material when first fired up.
The key is manufacturer's provide "automatic" updates.No trucks rolling for firmware fixes.
Everything will have to be connected to the internet all the time however.

The Radiance XD is HDMI 1.1. The PS 3 is 1.3. If I set the PS 3 to 1080p 60hz and hook directly(same cable) to the DPI projector, no sparklies.The new XE Radiance with 1.3 would certainly eliminate the problem. It just irks me to have to jump through so many hoops just to watch tv?
The repeater hopefully will do the trick,without having to update the Radiance.I also wonder why DPI uses DVI on a home theater projector?
Hopefully they also have an explanation and or fix for the geometry glitch.

Don't get me started on the DPI's DVI input. Terrible terrible terrible. Talk about fulfilling the prophecy that the more money you spend the ******** the product design. This is one of the most finicky, picky, pathetically unresiliant digital inputs I've ever seen. Other displays with the exact same chain will work just fine at high bandwidth (say 1080p60), but the DPI can't do crap with the same signal and gives you sparklies, snow, or nothing at all. It also loves to randomly drop HDCP handshake particularly when resyncing, requiring an input change to reestablish HDCP.

HDMI inputs often have a lot more resiliance because they can incorporate a lot of EQ that helps with long cable runs. Use the absolute best cabling possible(blue jeans HDMI) to the DPI, and run short distances if possible.

I must be losing it.

I thought Planar bought Runco.

Did Runco buy Christie? ("Runco's Christies) ???????

Jim can correct me if wrong,but Runco uses other people's chassis for almost all of their product line. Christie supplies several of the higher end versions.
The Wolf was based on a Christie as well.
I am looking for a Wolf like projector for a late summer installation. DPI has been promoting their Titan HD700 Reference.Uses an Iris of some sort to improve contrast. Has 10,000 lumens to start with,but compromises that level to get better contrast.5000 to 1 as I recall. Fun to be in the "Ferrari" level of performance!