I've heard about projectors that are "real 3D ready" or "compatable." I also heard about this video game software that makes any regular PC game appear 3D with the combination of this technology that the game runs through and these special pair of glasses. But the people on tv talking about it said you need a real 3D capable display, which they said meant it has to be "true 120hz." Does that mean 60hz displays can't play 3D movies or anything else?

How does this latest 3D technology even work? I am completely new to it.

Anyway, I have an Infocus IN83 projector, and just a regular 16:9 screen. Is my IN83 capable of displaying 3D content? (even though I think it is only 50 or 60hz). Do I need a special type of screen for a 3D display? I know da-lite makes a screen that's specifically for 3D projection, so I'm wondering if you need something like that or not, or what other things I might need.

Thanks for the wisdom and the time!

There are lots of different versions of 3d. No the Infocus won't work for the upcoming new 3d stuff as it stands alone. But there are companies that make add on boxes and such to make it work (and I am sure more will come out as 3d becomes more popular.

This will get you started:

http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewforum.php?f=65&sid=d4bf32281eff676d0ef97e1431eec6a8

http://www.stereo3d.com/3dhome.htm

http://www.stereo3d.com/recommend.htm

http://www.inition.co.uk/inition/products.php?CatID_=5

http://www.viewsonic.com/products/projectors/pjd62203d.htm

http://www.iz3d.com/

http://www.depthq.com/faq.html

There are two types of >60hz displays/projectors for page flipping/alternating eye type shutter glasses. Shutterglasses do not require a special screen.

1. 60hz-120hz dvi/hdmi input and full resolution stereo 3d...this is the best approach but displays in this category are hard to find. Some people say 85hz is the minimum and others 100hz to avoid flicker.

Even though most dlp projectors will appear to synch to 85hz or 100hz signals, the actual refresh rate isn't changed and remains at 60hz. There are a few dlp projectors that will synch and refresh at 85hz but manufacturer specifications rarely are accurate for stereod 3d.

2. 60hz dvi/hdmi input whose refresh rate is doubled in the TV to 120hz...these are only half resolution stereo 3D and can show visible artifacts depending on content. This is what all 3D DLP rear projection sets as well as the Viewsonic 3d listed above use.

Stereo 3D content can also be displayed with polarized glasses and a polarized screen. This requires two projectors with separate polarizers and a silver screen to preserve polarization.

Glasses-free 3D is achieved through autostereoscopic displays which project separate images to each eye. The limitation here is seating distance and the number of viewing angles available. There are some semi-affordable displays in the inition link above for around $2000.

NVIDIA GeForce 3D Vision, iz3d, ddd/tridef all offer support for PC 3D Gaming.

Good luck! :)

actually there is another option where they use 2 projector for 3D. The pc will need to output stereo in 2 different DVI connector (60hz each). You still need the shutterglass to view in 3D. Check out the thread pointed above for recommended projector and equipment.

I believe that is the best solution. Shutter glasses give the best 3D image and having two PJ's will perfectly compensate for 50% reduced brightness. Also, with this solution, you can get a second PJ to match one you already have.

actually there is another option where they use 2 projector for 3D. The pc will need to output stereo in 2 different DVI connector (60hz each). You still need the shutterglass to view in 3D. Check out the thread pointed above for recommended projector and equipment.

Interesting, I've been looking for more information on that as well. That gets you around the 60hz limitation of most displays. You need either a software or hardware demultiplexer. Here is a link for that:

http://www.stereo3d.com/projection.htm

I believe that is the best solution. Shutter glasses give the best 3D image and having two PJ's will perfectly compensate for 50% reduced brightness. Also, with this solution, you can get a second PJ to match one you already have.

Isnt that what JVC used to demo the 3D version of Beowulf? They used two RS20's side by side with shutter or polarized glasses, and supposedly it looked AMAZING! So would I just have to buy another RS20 and ceiling-mount it side by side with my other RS20 and use the RealD glasses? Do I need a special screen or can a 1.16 gain white AT screen do the trick?

Isnt that what JVC used to demo the 3D version of Beowulf? They used two RS20's side by side with shutter or polarized glasses, and supposedly it looked AMAZING! So would I just have to buy another RS20 and ceiling-mount it side by side with my other RS20 and use the RealD glasses? Do I need a special screen or can a 1.16 gain white AT screen do the trick?

Depends on the approach you take. Shutter glasses do not require a special screen; whereas, polarized projectors and glasses require a silver screen.

Panasonic is working on a 3D blu-ray format that should be out in 2010.

Panasonic is working on a 3D blu-ray format that should be out in 2010.

I am aware of Panasonic's 3D BD, but unless everyone jumps in on that bandwagon, it won't see the light, and if does see the light no one is going to buy it. Everyone (manufacturers, studios, and filmmakers) needs to get their $hit together and agree on an input and output method of delivering 3D content at the home, otherwise it will be another 3D gimmick that will nevr reach mass or half-ass adoption.

I'm not actually interested in 3D PC gaming. I just heard them talking about it and hte need for 120hz and I wondered if that applied to all 3D content (movies, tv, etc). I'd like a 3D setup to watch movies like Bolt with 3D glasses and such.

I have a quesiton though. What about DVD's like "Spy kids 3D" with the 3D glasses from years ago? And more recently journey to the center of the earth 3D with the 3D glasses? Aren't those meant to be watched on any tv? Or do you need 120hz for that too?

Depends on the approach you take. Shutter glasses do not require a special screen; whereas, polarized projectors and glasses require a silver screen.

Really? I figured most any screen would work. Is it that a "normal" screen destroys the polarization in the reflection process?

I'm not actually interested in 3D PC gaming. I just heard them talking about it and hte need for 120hz and I wondered if that applied to all 3D content (movies, tv, etc). I'd like a 3D setup to watch movies like Bolt with 3D glasses and such.

Higher is better, because to do 3D correctly with a single display device you need to alternate display of each eye's view, basically this means you have an effective 30Hz refresh rate on a 60Hz display, for a 60Hz refresh rate, you'd need a display refreshing at 120Hz.

But frankly I wouldn't bother even considering it at this point. As noted above, you need special equipment to do 3D in a non-craptacular way. You need something using polarization (like IMAX 3D) using two displays, or one with a device to alternate polarization, or shutter glasses (again, with two displays or one alternating display).

And as near as I can tell, there's nothing even close to bringing this sort of 3D to homes for major Hollywood movies.

I have a quesiton though. What about DVD's like "Spy kids 3D" with the 3D glasses from years ago? And more recently journey to the center of the earth 3D with the 3D glasses? Aren't those meant to be watched on any tv? Or do you need 120hz for that too?

AFAIK, they all use Analglyph to create the 3D effect which 1) doesn't work terribly well in the first place, and 2) destroys the color. I got Shrek 3D out of curiosity and it was a waste of money.

Until there's a shutter/polarization 3D solution for the home, I'll pass on home 3D.

I have a quesiton though. What about DVD's like "Spy kids 3D" with the 3D glasses from years ago? And more recently journey to the center of the earth 3D with the 3D glasses? Aren't those meant to be watched on any tv? Or do you need 120hz for that too?

The current BluRay and DVD 3-D versions of "Journey to the Center of the Earth 3-D" use a variant of the anaglyph process. In place of the more common red/cyan colors, it uses a greenish and off red color encoding process.

"Spy Kids 3D" is an interesting title to bring up, as it has the distinction of having been made available in no less than three 3-D video formats. For the widespread release, red/cyan anaglyph was used. But there was also a HQFS (high quality field-sequential) release ..and a Sensio (side by side squeezed) DVD release. Both of the latter versions offered a far superior 3-D viewing experience, and was even better than the original theatrical release, which was shown in anaglyph. (Spy Kids 3-D ran in theaters before the current Real-D polarized system came into place.)

But frankly I wouldn't bother even considering it at this point. As noted above, you need special equipment to do 3D in a non-craptacular way. You need something using polarization (like IMAX 3D) using two displays, or one with a device to alternate polarization, or shutter glasses (again, with two displays or one alternating display).

And as near as I can tell, there's nothing even close to bringing this sort of 3D to homes for major Hollywood movies.


What is polarization? Or what makes it happen? I thought you just needed a 120hz display and it will do whatever needs to be done by itself as long as it is 120hz, no?

Why isn't it a good possibility? It sounds like all one needs is a 120hz display, and shutter glasses. And I have no idea what shutter glasses are (what are they?) but they're probably not too expensive right?



On a different note, I thought 3D was just made by like... instead of a clear picture without glasses, you see kind of shadows or outlines of every person that are kind of red and greenish. Like colors surrounding every person and object thatr are kind of blurry and red and green. And I thought that was what made the 3D happen. That without glasses everything looked a little blurry and red and green, but then when you put on the red/green glasses it corrected everything. Are the red and green glasses "shutter" glasses? And if not then what are they for?


Oh and you mentioned Imax 3D. First off, what is "imax" exactly? I mean I've been to an imax theatre before but what exactly constitutes "IMAX?" What makes a theatre Imax? Is it simply the large size or can imax theoretically be achieved in a home?

And then what is imax 3D? And is it the same as "Real3D?"

And then what exactly is real3D? Because you hear of all these movies in theatres being advertised as "see it in REAL3D." What technology are they using there and is it available for the home?

Thank you!

What is polarization? Or what makes it happen? I thought you just needed a 120hz display and it will do whatever needs to be done by itself as long as it is 120hz, no?

Basically to do 3D you need a way to make each eye see a different image, there are several ways to do this:

Analglyph - This is the "red and blue" glasses thing where colors are used to separate the image. This works OK, but destroys color reproduction when viewed (for obvous reasons).
Shutter glasses - This is where the display alternates between frames for each eye, and LCD glasses are worn that block each eye in sync with what's being displayed. This works well, but since you're blocking vision, you need a higher refresh rate (like 120Hz) to avoid flicker and poor motion reproduction.
Polarization - This is what's used by IMAX, where there are (usually) two projectors, each projecting a different perspective, and through polarization filters perpendicular to each other. The viewer wears glasses with polarization filters again perpendicular to each other. The polarization blocks each eye from seeing the other's perspective.

Polarization can also be done by putting a filter in front of one projector that alternates polarization, basically this is like shutter glasses but the "shutter" is the alternating polarization.

Either of the last two will produce great looking 3D images, but obviously they both require special equipment to do.

Why isn't it a good possibility? It sounds like all one needs is a 120hz display, and shutter glasses. And I have no idea what shutter glasses are (what are they?) but they're probably not too expensive right?

Well first, you need a display that refreshes at 120Hz and accepts 120Hz input (ie current "120Hz" displays won't necessary work). And it will work just fine, I see I wasn't clear, it's just the Analglyph technique that's not good.

As far as shutter glasses, they're glasses with Liquid Crystal shutters in them for lenses that alternately block each eye in sync with the perspective being displayed on the screen.

On a different note, I thought 3D was just made by like... instead of a clear picture without glasses, you see kind of shadows or outlines of every person that are kind of red and greenish.

Viewed without glasses, yes, you'll see a double image.

Like colors surrounding every person and object thatr are kind of blurry and red and green. And I thought that was what made the 3D happen.

That's Analgyph, using colors to separate what each eye sees. It works OK, but not near as well as the newer methods.

That without glasses everything looked a little blurry and red and green, but then when you put on the red/green glasses it corrected everything.

Yes, but there's no color reproduction right? It's like a red/blue tinted black and white image...

Are the red and green glasses "shutter" glasses?

No, they're just color filters.

And if not then what are they for?

They use color to block what each eye sees, The red filter only lets you see the red parts of the picture and the blue, the blue.

Oh and you mentioned Imax 3D. First off, what is "imax" exactly? I mean I've been to an imax theatre before but what exactly constitutes "IMAX?" What makes a theatre Imax? Is it simply the large size or can imax theoretically be achieved in a home?

That's way beyond the scope of this conversation, suffice to say IMAX 3D is 3D done at an IMAX facility. It uses (AFAIK) two projectors shooting through polarization filters and the audience wears polarized glasses.

And then what is imax 3D? And is it the same as "Real3D?"

I think they're similar technology, mainly different names.

And then what exactly is real3D? Because you hear of all these movies in theatres being advertised as "see it in REAL3D." What technology are they using there and is it available for the home?

Well there's a website for what it is. But no, I don't think it's available for home. Right now there's no standard for delivering 3D content to the home, at least not for use with any of the "good" 3D technologies.

I just finished building my 3D home theater and everyone that have seen it was amazed.

Hardware:
HTPC vista with 3.2GB RAM
Nvidia quadro fx 3700 1GB
DepthHQ 3d HD 1280x720
8 Pair of active LCD wireless shutter glasses

Software:
Stereoscopic 3d player from 3dtv.at

Since you cant buy the depthq projector online (dealer only) a dealer in Cali gave me a big discount..

Total cost of this project was $6700 gave or take.

Review:
Some 3D movies are amazing and some are so so..Spy Kids 3d, Sharkboy & Lavagirl both HQFS was the top. No flickering and absolutely no ghosting. The stereoscopic player can play sensio formatted disk(which is now the standard for home 3D movies). I was able to get Journey to the center of the earth in Field Sequential Format I believe converted from anaglyph, picture quality is very good in full color, not as sharp as Spykids but the experience is still great..I just ordered "Bugs" and still waiting for it to arrive..I also would like to try Friday the 13th when I get a chance. The glasses does not give me eye strain..Color and brightness with the glasses on is plenty bright since the PJ puts out 1800 to 2000 lumens and I projected it on Carada brilliant white. I downloaded the HD 720P sample clips from nvidia and It was stunning. Sensio is going to release more movies soon you can visit their website. They also have 22 adult movies by request only..The reason I went with DeptHQ is because it takes sensio formatted DVD which is futureproof at least for now..If you want the ultimate 3D experience and dont want to buy two projectors, this option is the best I can find. Setup was easy, nvidia fully support the quadro fx 3d driver for vista. I wish sensio will release coraline in the near future..Once you experience this setup you cannot go back to anaglyph. I would say its the best upgrade from 1080p 2D..Its a different experience..

I just finished building my 3D home theater and everyone that have seen it was amazed.

Hardware:
HTPC vista with 3.2GB RAM
Nvidia quadro fx 3700 1GB
DepthHQ 3d HD 1280x720
8 Pair of active LCD wireless shutter glasses

Software:
Stereoscopic 3d player from 3dtv.at


What brand/model of shutter glasses are you using?

NuVision AGP-6000 from depthq.c0m

under accessories..

I just finished building my 3D home theater and everyone that have seen it was amazed.

Hardware:
HTPC vista with 3.2GB RAM
Nvidia quadro fx 3700 1GB
DepthHQ 3d HD 1280x720
8 Pair of active LCD wireless shutter glasses

Software:
Stereoscopic 3d player from 3dtv.at

Since you cant buy the depthq projector online (dealer only) a dealer in Cali gave me a big discount..

Total cost of this project was $6700 gave or take.

Review:
Some 3D movies are amazing and some are so so..Spy Kids 3d, Sharkboy & Lavagirl both HQFS was the top. No flickering and absolutely no ghosting. The stereoscopic player can play sensio formatted disk(which is now the standard for home 3D movies). I was able to get Journey to the center of the earth in Field Sequential Format I believe converted from anaglyph, picture quality is very good in full color, not as sharp as Spykids but the experience is still great..I just ordered "Bugs" and still waiting for it to arrive..I also would like to try Friday the 13th when I get a chance. The glasses does not give me eye strain..Color and brightness with the glasses on is plenty bright since the PJ puts out 1800 to 2000 lumens and I projected it on Carada brilliant white. I downloaded the HD 720P sample clips from nvidia and It was stunning. Sensio is going to release more movies soon you can visit their website. They also have 22 adult movies by request only..The reason I went with DeptHQ is because it takes sensio formatted DVD which is futureproof at least for now..If you want the ultimate 3D experience and dont want to buy two projectors, this option is the best I can find. Setup was easy, nvidia fully support the quadro fx 3d driver for vista. I wish sensio will release coraline in the near future..Once you experience this setup you cannot go back to anaglyph. I would say its the best upgrade from 1080p 2D..Its a different experience..

What is the processor speed of your HTPC?

Thanks http://z09a0222gshv273.imageshacknow.info/img/3044************************

Where do you buy these 3D movies?

This sounds great!
I just finished building my 3D home theater and everyone that have seen it was amazed.

Hardware:
HTPC vista with 3.2GB RAM
Nvidia quadro fx 3700 1GB
DepthHQ 3d HD 1280x720
8 Pair of active LCD wireless shutter glasses

Software:
Stereoscopic 3d player from 3dtv.at

Since you cant buy the depthq projector online (dealer only) a dealer in Cali gave me a big discount..

Total cost of this project was $6700 gave or take.

Review:
Some 3D movies are amazing and some are so so..Spy Kids 3d, Sharkboy & Lavagirl both HQFS was the top. No flickering and absolutely no ghosting. The stereoscopic player can play sensio formatted disk(which is now the standard for home 3D movies). I was able to get Journey to the center of the earth in Field Sequential Format I believe converted from anaglyph, picture quality is very good in full color, not as sharp as Spykids but the experience is still great..I just ordered "Bugs" and still waiting for it to arrive..I also would like to try Friday the 13th when I get a chance. The glasses does not give me eye strain..Color and brightness with the glasses on is plenty bright since the PJ puts out 1800 to 2000 lumens and I projected it on Carada brilliant white. I downloaded the HD 720P sample clips from nvidia and It was stunning. Sensio is going to release more movies soon you can visit their website. They also have 22 adult movies by request only..The reason I went with DeptHQ is because it takes sensio formatted DVD which is futureproof at least for now..If you want the ultimate 3D experience and dont want to buy two projectors, this option is the best I can find. Setup was easy, nvidia fully support the quadro fx 3d driver for vista. I wish sensio will release coraline in the near future..Once you experience this setup you cannot go back to anaglyph. I would say its the best upgrade from 1080p 2D..Its a different experience..

What is the processor speed of your HTPC?

Thanks http://z09a0222gshv273.imageshacknow.info/img/3044************************

I have a quad core intel cpu. Core 2 duo is more than enough as long as you have 2GB RAM and a 512MB card..

I buy my movies in the internet..you can google "sensio" movies, sensio formatted dvd's have a good quality..

Hey Gang,

this whole conversation will be rendered moot probably in less than one year. Please, don't invest in trying to create a 3-D system until the Blu-ray Disc Association has approved their final spec and we find out what the hardware is capable of delivering.

Naturally, those who utilize any form of dual-projection for their 3-D content today will be able to take advantage of any future Blu-ray Disc 3-D spec that provides dual-HDMI output (one for each eye).

A LOT is going on right now with getting real, full-fidelity 3-D on Blu-ray disc for uncompromised 1080p viewing of real 3-D content. No distorted color spectrum is necessary, and the design should also allow compatibility with LCD shutter glasses.

My article here isn't the complete story, but it's a good place to start to get an impression about where we're headed with 3-D on blu-ray Disc. And it will be here very, very soon.

http://www.dvdfile.com/views/article/3-d-heads-to-blu-ray-disc-60009

Great article David!


I suppose that an inexpensive Panny or Sony projector will be able to handle 3D by next year.

Any projector that can do 120 Hz (really do it, like the LCD 120Hz projectors... not DLP that down-sample to 60Hz) will be able to do sequential-field 3-D synchronized with LCD shutter glasses. So that includes many not-too-expensive TVs we have today. The difference is the protocol that folks agree upon to sync with the glasses etc, and there might be subtle firmware issues so that the TV will be able to tell which frame is "left" and which frame is "right"... maybe in subcode sent with the data or maybe some code pattern in the first row of pixels in the 1080 image That's why it makes sense for a manufacturer to wait to market a display product as "3-D ready" until these details are known so they can be beta-tested and confirmed to work properly.

Not sure if your "inexpensive" comment was intended as irony, but in fact there likely will be some inexpensive 3-D capable TVs and projectors given that the 120Hz barrier has been old-hat for a generation or two.

No, no irony. Just wishful thinking.

I also have the impression that any 120hz proj could - but not necessary will - display 3D properly with the active technique. But I heard that polarized proj. panels wouldn't, I don't know why exactly.. I mean, I'ts just a matter of seeing with the left or right eye sequentially!

That is correct, but the best way is to cup your eyes with your hands one eye at a time real fast. Works great. Seriously, it works great for me and I'm blind in one eye

So are we saying that we'll definitely be able have a one projector/ one HDMI cable solution (as opposed to having to use two projectors/two HDMI cables or two HDMI cables going into one projector) that will work with something like the high quality Panasonic 3D implementation?

I'm about to run my cables and wires behind crown molding and would like to know whether I need to run a second HDMI cable to where my projector currently sits in preparation for a future 3D setup.

Any projector that can do 120 Hz (really do it, like the LCD 120Hz projectors... not DLP that down-sample to 60Hz) will be able to do sequential-field 3-D synchronized with LCD shutter glasses. So that includes many not-too-expensive TVs we have today.

If new blu-ray players are required for 3D, this would be an excellent time to add support for decoding 1080p60. Right now only 720p @ 60hz is supported. 1080p60 or 1080p48 would be required anyway for both eyes @ 24 or 30 fps.

I believe current 120hz displays won't accept an input higher than 60hz, which means the 3D blu-ray player would have to send a sync signal to the glasses at 120hz to match the tv's internal processing. This creates a new set of issues because now we have to make sure the tv's pulldown process to reach 120hz/fps matches the shutter rate of the glasses. If the glasses are following a 1:1 left eye off right eye on pattern but the tv's pulldown is 3:2 or an odd number then you will have ghosting.

I'm assuming Panasonic or whoever will also implement the checkerboard approach as that is currently the only solution with 3D ready DLP rear projection.

I believe current 120hz displays won't accept an input higher than 60hz, which means the 3D blu-ray player would have to send a sync signal to the glasses at 120hz to match the tv's internal processing. This creates a new set of issues because now we have to make sure the tv's pulldown process to reach 120hz/fps matches the shutter rate of the glasses. If the glasses are following a 1:1 left eye off right eye on pattern but the tv's pulldown is 3:2 or an odd number then you will have ghosting.

All reasons why it makes sense that manufacturers wait on the confirmed spec before moving forward with "3-D!" ready projectors and TVs.

I meant to say that any display capable of driving native 120Hz on the screen would be capable of doing 3-D *with the proper firmware/sync-software*, of course.


If new blu-ray players are required for 3D, this would be an excellent time to add support for decoding 1080p60. Right now only 720p @ 60hz is supported. 1080p60 or 1080p48 would be required anyway for both eyes @ 24 or 30 fps.

Agreed!!

If new blu-ray players are required for 3D, this would be an excellent time to add support for decoding 1080p60. Right now only 720p @ 60hz is supported. 1080p60 or 1080p48 would be required anyway for both eyes @ 24 or 30 fps.

You should have the option: 2 HDMI calbes for 2 projectors (polarized light), 2 HDMI cables for one projector (yet undefined protocol) and 1 HDMI for 1 projector (yet undefined protocol).

If I were you, I'd run 2 HDMI cables just to be safe, if it's hard to access the chase to fish new cables once construction is complete.