OK, so I've been looking for months to purchase a TV.
I thought I was decided on the PN50A550, and am about to purchase it.

But I ran across the Sony KDL-46Z4100 LCD set.
(yeah, I know, LCD vs. plasma, but that isn't what this is about)
I love the features of the Sony, and it is just a little more expensive. Overall seems like a better TV than the Samsung... The only issue is that it's 4-inches smaller.

I guess my biggest concern is losing that 4-inches to gain 24p capability.

I watch a lot of movies, and that is what this TV will primarily be doing... I plan to get a blu-ray player to go with it.

Tell me, after never having a TV that could even do 24p. Should I even worry about it? Or just get the Samsung and be done with it?

Thanks

Well I didn't worry about 24p. I think it's just over hyped and your not going to know the difference. You'll instead notice other problems with a LCD display over the Plasma. I watch a lot of movies. I probably own around 600 or so with DVD's, HD DVD's, and Blu-Ray's and it all looks great on my Plasma to me. Hell got another 24 HD DVD's and 2 Blu-Ray Movies Yesterday. 6 of the HD DVD's are Duplicates and so will sell off with my low end Toshiba HD-A3 HD DVD player. Still will leave me with 4, with 2 being the top high end Toshiba HD-A35 players that can bitstream the Audio like my Panasonic BD35 Blu-Ray player. My Onkyo 806 will decode it all then and also display what it is. TrueHD, DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby Digital+, etc. All going out though a single HDMI cable to my 50" Panasonic Plasma! Great picture and Great sound and NO 24p. 3:2 pulldown has never bothered me watching movies.

Just my $.02 but I've always felt that screen size is by far the most important factor when choosing a TV--certainly more important than 24p.

Just my $.02 but I've always felt that screen size is by far the most important factor when choosing a TV--certainly more important than 24p.

hehe... So, I constructed some cardboard and placed it where the TV is going to be...
I really do not want 46" now that I've done that...
I agree with you... The larger set will have that "impact" that I'm looking for.

Go for the size. The 24fps feature is overhyped.

No.

/thread

Just get the Sammy and don't even give the 24p thing a thought.

Just get the Sammy and don't even give the 24p thing a thought.

Or buy a 50" Panny 850 - I did, , it has 24P - and let me assure you, it is a hell of a lot better than the Sony (and cheaper too).

After 15 minutes of watching the Sony, you will notice a strange judder on left-right panning.

Will I regret not getting a 24p set?Only if you plan to watch a lot of HD content on Blu-ray disc.

the biggest set you could afford and goes with your decor will be better than 24p, 24P is done correctly only by pioneer.

Go with the Plasma. I just upgraded from a Sony LCD to a plasma and it was way better. Neither TV I have natively support 24p but I can output blu-ray in 24p and on the plasma it looks better than the LCD. I do not see judder or anything of the sort.

I bought a panny 50pz85u. Black levels and screen size and viewing angles make the plasma a better choice across the board.

In all honesty, I think only a fool would pass up a Pio 5020 at the prices they can be had these days.

I have my Pio 6020 now (did own a Sony XBR4) and the difference is real.

I'll never own another LCD in their current state again.

James

"no" any set in that $ size range will not suffer from no 24p. There are other areas of a panel in this price bracket that will affect picture more than it missing 24p. If it were a top end for a manufacturers set, then with most of the problems dealt with, the 24p difference is more aparant.

Analagy. On a piece of steel buffed with 500 grit sandpapper, how much does removing removing some of the scratches help, when after you do there are lots left.

On a piece of steel buffed with 3000 grit paste, there are few faults, now remove the few faults remaining, it is more apparant, since they stand out more against a nearer perfect backdrop.

24p makes images on screen more cinema like. It actually makes the moving scenes have cinema judder, but the frames are crisp and vivid.

without 24p movement is smoother, softer, less vivd.

I think the benifits of 24p are more lost on a mid grade set, than the not having 24p and blending in as almost no effect on the same panel.

Plus most of the Plasmas have a higher "motion resolution" which should help improve the image even when not using 24p. Many LCD's arent even above 500 lines of "motion resolution".

the biggest set you could afford and goes with your decor will be better than 24p, 24P is done correctly only by pioneer.Precisely, buy a 1080p/24fps capable PRO-151FD before they are going... going... gone!

Yeah in the world of HD, Size is rule number 1.

I have the Elite 141 which is a 24 fps set and don't use that feature as can't get the sound to sync up properly using the analog outputs on my BD55 and A35. The sound syncs up perfectly when the 24 fps feature is disabled

I have the Elite 141 which is a 24 fps set and don't use that feature as can't get the sound to sync up properly using the analog outputs on my BD55 and A35. The sound syncs up perfectly when the 24 fps feature is disabled

Same thing occurs on the Panny 850s. On 24P out form a Panny BD35 player, the Picture is delayed approx 140ms from the sound, and looks unnatural.

As I am using the optical SPDIF from the player to a DSP-A1 Yammy amp, I purchased a digital delay box for the audio, and can synch the A/V perfectly.

Disabling the 24P function in the BD35, makes the picture (as seen on on a Panny 850) look bad.

the biggest set you could afford and goes with your decor will be better than 24p, 24P is done correctly only by pioneer.

Not true. I compared the Pio LX508 side by side with Panny 50PX850, the 24P flicker was exactly the same on either sets, such is the nature of 24P !

But, the EURO and Austalian 850s (I have one of these), and the new Panny models (I believe) have a frame doubling function that effectively eliminates the 24P flicker, and makes 24P look very, very nice.

Not true. I compared the Pio LX508 side by side with Panny 50PX850, the 24P flicker was exactly the same on either sets, such is the nature of 24P !

But, the EURO and Austalian 850s (I have one of these), and the new Panny models (I believe) have a frame doubling function that effectively eliminates the 24P flicker, and makes 24P look very, very nice.

No, that's not the nature of 24p, especially when the frames are shown multiple times (48, 72, 96, 120, etc). 24p is inherent "jerky," due to the low frame rate, but it's not necessarily going to flicker.

Also, European TVs and standards are so different that discussing them only confuses things. Your movies don't suffer from judder because they're sped up to 25 fps.

No, that's not the nature of 24p, especially when the frames are shown multiple times (48, 72, 96, 120, etc). 24p is inherent "jerky," due to the low frame rate, but it's not necessarily going to flicker.

Also, European TVs and standards are so different that discussing them only confuses things. Your movies don't suffer from judder because they're sped up to 25 fps.

Sorry Chris, I may have used the wrong term. I am not a fan of 24fps. When I go to the cinema, all I see is flicker (judder?). Yes, I understand that 24fps was the highest tech available 70years ago, but in 2009, we can do better than that.

When I turn the frame doubling circuit on on the Panny, the motion becomes smooth and fluid, and the hackneyed phrase 'suspension of disbelief' occurs. It is what we get used to. After a few days of smooth motion, you will get used to this too, and on switching back, I am now very conscious of 24P flicker/judder.

I highly recommend that;
a) Avoid buying a LCD - the motion problems are not fixed in the latest 200Hz models, and,
b) Buy a plasma with an frame doubling function - you do not know what you have been missing.

I watched some scratchy old 1940s B+W newsreel of the English Queen mother, the other day, and due to having the frame doubling function on, I was amazed at how good this function made the old footage look - very smooth and lifelike !

Sorry Chris, I may have used the wrong term. I am not a fan of 24fps. When I go to the cinema, all I see is flicker (judder?). Yes, I understand that 24fps was the highest tech available 70years ago, but in 2009, we can do better than that.

When I turn the frame doubling circuit on on the Panny, the motion becomes smooth and fluid, and the hackneyed phrase 'suspension of disbelief' occurs. It is what we get used to. After a few days of smooth motion, you will get used to this too, and on switching back, I am now very conscious of 24P flicker/judder.

I highly recommend that;
a) Avoid buying a LCD - the motion problems are not fixed in the latest 200Hz models, and,
b) Buy a plasma with an frame doubling function - you do not know what you have been missing.

I watched some scratchy old 1940s B+W newsreel of the English Queen mother, the other day, and due to having the frame doubling function on, I was amazed at how good this function made the old footage look - very smooth and lifelike !

What you describe isn't really flicker but a lack of smooth motion. That is the nature of 24p and there are many TVs which will smooth it out -- 120hz/200hz/240hz LCDs, Pioneers in "smooth" mode, etc. Personally I hate these motion interpolation schemes.

What you describe isn't really flicker but a lack of smooth motion. That is the nature of 24p and there are many TVs which will smooth it out -- 120hz/200hz/240hz LCDs, Pioneers in "smooth" mode, etc. Personally I hate these motion interpolation schemes.

Pioneer made a mess of their 'smooth mode', according to CNET. Link:
http://kowabunga-cnet.com.com/flat-panel-tvs/pioneer-kuro-pdp-5020fd/4505-6482_7-33002523-2.html
"The worst effect was breakup during movement. For example, as the red Mustang speeds around a corner onto 34th Street, its white stripe appeared to separate from the car and trail behind briefly, before catching up again. Similar breakup occurred around Smith's head as he moved through a record store. Neither of these effects was visible on the Samsung."

I can understand why you would 'hate' Pioneer's "smooth" mode.

But, Panasonic has implemented the frame doubling function very well indeed, very smooth, and I feel confident that you would 'love' this.

I do not understand why people cling to 24fps - this frame rate will never be smooth. It is a bit like having only 16Khz sampling rate for audio.

Pioneer made a mess of their 'smooth mode', according to CNET. Link:
http://kowabunga-cnet.com.com/flat-panel-tvs/pioneer-kuro-pdp-5020fd/4505-6482_7-33002523-2.html
"The worst effect was breakup during movement. For example, as the red Mustang speeds around a corner onto 34th Street, its white stripe appeared to separate from the car and trail behind briefly, before catching up again. Similar breakup occurred around Smith's head as he moved through a record store. Neither of these effects was visible on the Samsung."

I can understand why you would 'hate' Pioneer's "smooth" mode.

But, Panasonic has implemented the frame doubling function very well indeed, very smooth, and I feel confident that you would 'love' this.

I do not understand why people cling to 24fps - this frame rate will never be smooth. It is a bit like having only 16Khz sampling rate for audio.

I hate all motion interpolation, whether it's from Samsung, Sony, Pioneer, or Philips (who had something like this years before it became popular, called "Pixel Plus").

I don't have a problems with frame rates over 24 fps but the content needs to be filmed that way, I don't want the TV to invent the missing frames. It looks awful.

Same thing occurs on the Panny 850s. On 24P out form a Panny BD35 player, the Picture is delayed approx 140ms from the sound, and looks unnatural.

As I am using the optical SPDIF from the player to a DSP-A1 Yammy amp, I purchased a digital delay box for the audio, and can synch the A/V perfectly.

Disabling the 24P function in the BD35, makes the picture (as seen on on a Panny 850) look bad.

Not on the 141 with the BD 55. The picture looks amazing. What type of delay box are you using? I am sure that it can't be used with multichannel audio outs. One of the benefits of BD is the high rez sound which doesn't work with optical or coax digital outputs.

Not on the 141 with the BD 55. The picture looks amazing. What type of delay box are you using? I am sure that it can't be used with multichannel audio outs. One of the benefits of BD is the high rez sound which doesn't work with optical or coax digital outputs.

I use a Felston DD740 Audio Delay. Link:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/felston_dd740.htm
and it works.

I use the delay box on TV broadcasts - it has 36 preset delays - accessible by remote.

Q - Which do you thinks sounds better;
a) TRUE HS / MASTER DTS converted to analogue by the BD55, or
b) TRUE HS / MASTER DTS down mixed to DD/ DTS, then converted to analogue by the A-Ds of a class amp like the DSP-A1. ?

You may be surprised.

I'll take the decoding by the BD 55 feed through a great pre/pro like a Rotel any day.

Pioneer made a mess of their 'smooth mode', according to CNET. Link:
http://kowabunga-cnet.com.com/flat-panel-tvs/pioneer-kuro-pdp-5020fd/4505-6482_7-33002523-2.html
"The worst effect was breakup during movement. For example, as the red Mustang speeds around a corner onto 34th Street, its white stripe appeared to separate from the car and trail behind briefly, before catching up again. Similar breakup occurred around Smith's head as he moved through a record store. Neither of these effects was visible on the Samsung."

I can understand why you would 'hate' Pioneer's "smooth" mode.

But, Panasonic has implemented the frame doubling function very well indeed, very smooth, and I feel confident that you would 'love' this.

I do not understand why people cling to 24fps - this frame rate will never be smooth. It is a bit like having only 16Khz sampling rate for audio.Has Pioneer changed their implementation of PureCinema:Smooth from the 8G to the 9G series?

I have used the PureCinema:Smooth setting with BD quite often and never experienced the issues described by CNET's review.

go for the size. The 24fps feature is overhyped.

+10000