Over the weekend I finally decided on a seat to go with and in my many hours of searching and reading I kept coming across sites that are offering certain Berkline's (including the 13175s that I'm after) in "New Bonded Leather Option". It seems that everyone that offering these bonded ones have a ton instock and can ship within 24hrs and the ones listing "leather match" are weeks and weeks of waiting? Is that a sign within itself? Or could that be just b/c Berkline wants to get the "bonded" ones out there are dealers were able to get them at great deals being new?

I have no experience with this bonded leather and would greatly appreciate any feedback good or bad about the one Berkline is using. I'm sure there are many many furniture manufactures using this newer bonded leather option and I'm sure there are different quality levels of it as well, so I am really looking for those of you have ones from Berkline to get a real apples to apples opinion and details!

Would like to hear anything you can offer up on them! Thanks

Bonded leather is like using plywood for your fine wood finish.

William,

Have you actually seen and tried the last generation of bonded leather that the Berkline offers now?

Bonded leather is like using plywood for your fine wood finish.

Hmm, I have to admit, I have seen some very fine finished ply in my day.. Maybe not so bad. :)

I have the 12003 in bonded brown. It has less visible grain than the regular leather. I had berkline send me a swatch before I bought that was freakin' butter soft. The actual chair was not quite as nice, but still very nice. I put a little leather conditioner on and it made a big difference (I thought so. my wife well...).

The stuff does seem to be durable. I've unleashed the wrath of my 2 and 4 year old on them and they haven't put a mark on it (yet :))

My local Costco was selling a massage recliner/chair in bonded leather (it says bonded right on the sign) and it seemed to be the exact same stuff. That might be a way to check it out yourself.

Overall, I'd say its equivalent in feel to the lower grade leather but cheaper and probably more durable. If you are after the best I'd go for the high grade leather.

K

I just bought some 12006s in Bonded Brown Leather and I do like the feel of it as well. Very soft and buttery feeling, as the other guy mentioned. It seems durable, but these are too new to me for me to really tell.

It does make "fart" :eek: like sounds when you are reclining up and down though.

Old

Old,

Many Berkline recliners that come in leather/vinyl combo or bonded leather/vinyl combo will produce a squeaking sound. It all depends how close the seating cushion is to the armrest. Try not to push the chairs together too close. Also some people use baby powder to eliminate the noise. You can also try finding a product from Stain Safe called Leather Revitalizer.

My chairs farted and I used the baby powder in the crease where the cushions and armrests meet. Just put a little on your hand and reach in there and spread it around. Problem solved.

Thanks for the tip guys. Will try it out :)
Old.

Bonded leather (as it was explained to me) is made in a similar fashion as vinyl with some leather thrown in the mix- literally. It's made out of an emulsion of glues and whatever stuff it takes to make up the rolls of the product, i.e. bonded leather.

I just received my Berks in January and i almost went with the bonded stuff but ended up going with #3 grade leather insted- now that's buttery smooth witn none off that "fart" sound going on unless (of course) it's the real thing:D
To save some money I used the leather match option which imho is OK for a dimly lit HT but probably not too good for a great room or living room where there is a bunch more light. I give away is that leather usually is no wider than 24", so you have to seam it more often which drives the cost up.

I don't think the farting is due to the bonded leather. I have grade 4 leather with vinyl match and they fart.

From Furniture Today

"Bonded technology — a leather-look polyurethane face on a fabric core made up of leather pieces joined with adhesive — is regarded by some as an affordable alternative to genuine hides. While it has gained some converts, rawhide diehards continue to view it as an imposter."

"Ashley's bonded brand UltraBlend, containing 17% leather, is still selling, but said President Kerry Lebensburger, “We are noticing more suppliers switching to leather match as a way to combat higher leather costs and the rush of promotions on blended products. What has been a staple of motion furniture may be coming back to stationary.”

I recently purchased a leather loveseat, sofa and chair and had a darned difficult time deciphering the various qualities of leather, bycast leather (leather splits coated with polyurethane), and bonded leather. In Australia and Great Britain it is illegal to call bycast leather "leather" as it is allowed here. And bycast leather is a step up in terms of leather content than Bonded leather.

I have 8 Berkline 090s that are leather match and I think they are great. I bought them at 2 different times on Craigslist and paid just $150 per chair and they are in great condition. I was even able to find 2 separate matching sets of 4 in a deep burgundy leather match. If you are looking to save money, I think Craigslist is the way to go, you just have to be patient.

I think if Durahide or some kind of vinyl product is suitable for you, then bonded leather would be fine. However, I wouldn't make the mistake of thinking you are getting leather chairs. From my reading, the durability of bonded leather could be a concern and they haven't been around long to know for sure.

My opinion, for what its worth. You get what you pay for.

Bob

All those articles, unless you are quoting something different were wrote a while back. We are talking about the second generation of the bonded leather here which is quite different from the first one that came amount a couple of years ago...

A couple of years ago, one manufacturer went on a smear campaign against Bonded Leather because they did not use it as one of their covers and at least one of their competitors did. Now that they have seen the positives and changed their minds and started to us it, they have ended their campaign against it. As Roman has said, most of the negative things you will find were from a few years back and most likely correlate to this campaign. Take a look at the latest swatch(es) if you get a chance. I think you will be impressed. Of the swatches and seats I have seen covered in it I have been very impressed.

Bonded leather is like using plywood for your fine wood finish.

You are right, no matter what anyone says about "new and improved" bonded leather, bonded leather is still scraps of leather put in an emulsion and glued together to make a roll of "bonded" leather. Over time with use the emulsion breaks down and cracks, chips, flakes, rips and tears because it is not one piece of leather but scraps of leather glued together.

People on AVS know what "bonded leather" is if they hare ever had a "genuine" leather belt that has literally fallen to pieces after it has been used for a while. Regarding durability and longevity there is no comparison when "bonded" leather is compared to actual leather. I have real leather belts that have lasted well over 15 years while bonded leather lasted a year maybe two if your lucky before they fall apart.

Like a belt, a theater seat gets a tremendous amount of use and wear and tear; hence you are always better off with leather over bonded leather. That is not an opinion, that is a fact.

That is not an opinion, that is a fact.

Fact based on what? The bonded leather has not been around that long to actually make statements like that. You maybe 100% right, and the leather can serve longer (although I had a top grain leather loveseat where the leather cracked and got really ugly in a couple of years, and it was not abused at all). On the other hand I tried really hard to scratch the bonded leather, and I could not do it. It would not get damaged, and I used my key while doing it.

Basically, only time will tell...

Not very old.

Does a small amount of ground up leather added make the product "leather"? I think not.

Bob

Now that the "new" bonded leather has been out for a few months, anyone have any problems to report.

This stuff feels good, looks pretty good and is cheaper. I'm really leaning towards getting it.

i wouldn't consider it leather either. i think that was thrown in there as a selling point. but still, it is a nice material. i think your MAIN focus should be on fit and ergonomics.

it can't stand up to cat claws. i have the evidence. luckily its very minor. i don't know how well real leather would stand up. i doubt any better. cat claws can scratch steel. but they can't scratch granite.

I recently purchased 5 Berkline 13175's with bonded leather. My wife and I really like the feel of the bonded leather. Guests have commented on how much they like the comfort of the seats and in particular the leather. I have no idea how well they will hold up but with the cost savings I could not pass them up. So far the only "test" has been my 80 lb. dog jumping up on them and they passed so far. My three year old has had a few minor spills that have wiped right off but nothing major yet. This is without any conditioner on them yet. Still working on getting some conditioner. Real leather does not always mean durability either. My wife has a Lincoln Towncar with "upgraded leather" that has not held up as well as I would have liked. I'll admit that she is hard on things and it did not get the TLC it deserved but I would have still liked it to have held up better. So only time will tell. One thing for sure as has been mentioned the newer bonded leather is much better for comfort than the "faux leather" products of the past. I also purchased a five year warranty that covers everything for about $250 for the five chairs.

On the other hand I tried really hard to scratch the bonded leather, and I could not do it. It would not get damaged, and I used my key while doing it.




Roman. before i bought my chairs from you. i looked at the k-mart chairs.
i tried to damage the vinyl/whatever it is(on the underside). using my key, i had to push on it a pretty lot to make a mark.


btw. i had forgot what conditioner you said to use. what was it ? any alternatives ? tia

I have never heard of bonded leather, but if it is anything like bicast then I would be wary of long term durability. I would say that bicast represents about twenty percent of my repair calls. Some of these bicast leathers might be bonded, as it is difficult to tell what is what sometimes. Not sure how long this new bonded leather has been out, so it may be better in the durability department.

Roman,
Take a swatch of this bonded leather over to Jeff at Refinish Coatings (www.refinishcoatings.com) and see what he has to say. I know he sells coatings to some manufacturers in China, but I have never heard him mention it being used with a bonded leather. At the very least, your trip should give you a good knowledge of leather. Tell him Eric with Quality Leather sent you.

Eric,

The new bonded leather that I personally liked (great product for the money) was shown last fall at the Market in NC, so it is quite new. Again, while no one knows for sure how well it will ware, I tried to scratch it really hard, and I could not leave a mark on it. Some of the leathers are quite more sensible to abuse like that.

Thanks for the link. When I have a chance I will definitely stop by Jeff's place and see what he has to say.

I have 3 bonded leather Berks and they seem great. They are soft, they feel and look great. I may not have bought them for my living room, but they are perfect for the theater.

Let's face it, real, high quality leather is fantastic if you can afford it. For us, and for the room, the bonded leather was a good alternative.

I purchased 2 bonded leather Berkline 12003's from Roman a few months back, in the black bonded leather.

Chairs haven't gotten a ton of use yet, but so far, no problems to report whatsoever. I would say though that I am pretty particular with my HT equipment and furniture, and I definitely act cautiously around them. But I see no reason why they won't hold up long term.

And the bonded leather is definitely soft and smooth, and very comfortable.

When I got quotes from different online vendors for some Berk 12000's there wasn't a price difference between bonded leather and leather/vinyl match. For the same money I would rather have leather.

There is definitely price difference between bonded leather/vinyl combo and leather/vinyl combo...

If that's the case then the vendors that quoted me on the leather/vinyl must have discounted the price more than the on the bonded/vinyl quote I got.

or those who quoted bonded leather/vinyl combo discounted less :)

bud and heeb,
That is great, but I would still be concerned about long term durability. If they don't get much use, then it shouldn't be an issue in the short to medium term. That being said, I have had multiple customers tell me that there couch, etc. is only a year old and is starting to fall apart. To be quite honest, I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig on this.

For this type of leather or any finished leather, the best thing you can do for them is keep them clean. Use a clean, wet rag to wipe the leather down. Kneed the leather with the rag if you have to. Any stains can be usually cleaned in this manner. If it is a difficult area, then use a little dishwashing liquid. Mix it in a bottle of about 3% dl and the rest water.

i wouldn't consider it leather either. i think that was thrown in there as a selling point. but still, it is a nice material. i think your MAIN focus should be on fit and ergonomics.

it can't stand up to cat claws. i have the evidence. luckily its very minor. i don't know how well real leather would stand up. i doubt any better. cat claws can scratch steel. but they can't scratch granite.

This is a very good point.

For example, I have granite counter tops in my bar and "engineered stone" (Silestone) in the kitchen. I HATE the granite! It has water marks despite the fact that I baby it and reseal it regularly. I LOVE the engineered stone. Clean it with 409, and heck even occasionally use it as a cutting board (bad for my knives though). After my experiences, I'd never have granite.

I'd say it is more important to look at your needs, budget and wants. I'm way past the point to have the need to impress anyone.

hmmm. my granite is AWESOME.

the point being that just because something isn't "genuine" or whatever doesn't make it a bad product. I took some heat my not going with granite in the kitchen. But I'm glad I didn't.

The original bonded leathers we stiff and not very leather-like. The newer versions feel just as good if not better than most leathers - especially treated leathers. The surface is actually a polyurethane. The "bonded" leather portion is applied to the back of the material so you never see or feel that part. I was very skeptical of this product at first. But the latest versions are better than any vinyl I've seen and vinyl has been used for seating for many, many years.

Even if your HT gets regular use, bonded is a great alternative if you don't want to pay for all leather or L/V.

Randy Bowman
Berkline Marketing

My chairs farted and I used the baby powder in the crease where the cushions and armrests meet. Just put a little on your hand and reach in there and spread it around. Problem solved.

If you do this and then you really Fart, you can't blame it on the chair :D.

If you do this and then you really Fart, you can't blame it on the chair .

That's what dogs are for. They are mobile and provide an excuse in MANY locations throughout the house. And particularly in the car.

Back on topic...

Just last night I sat in a Berk with the bonded leather and must say, I was rather pleased. I thought the surface was a little slicker than the surface of the leather, but it was soft and comfortable. If it will actually stand up to my dog jumping on it (and when I say jumping I really mean two front paws first, then the back legs trying to scale the rest of the climb, claws digging in the whole way up. even though he's big enough to just hop on up if he would figure it out), I will seriously consider this fabric.

Just bought a couple of rows of Berkline 12003 in bonded leather from Roman. Hopefully they will arrive tomorrow. I'll give you my feed back when I get them. Don't usually spend this kind of money without touching something first. But I've done it allot over the course of building out my HT. I've found I can trust most of the things I read in this forum.

Noow that I am finally done with the project maybe I'll have time to post some stuff about the project and not worry about being "Loganed". Thanks guys!

If you worry about being LOGANED, then you ARE LOGANED!

Did you get the chairs? How are they?

Sorry for the slow response. Just got back from Alaska. (2 hrs ago!)


The chairs are great! I love them. My 13 yr old daughter asked me "Dad, are these real leather?" I said yep. Hey, she thought there was a Santa Claus for 12 years. I challemge anyone to tell the difference. If I'm choosing between bonded leather and microfiber... go with the bonded leather. If leather is THAT important to you... get full leather. Its a media room. I'm in it 6-8 hours a week. Not allot of wear and tear.

Not worried about being Loganed anymore. Finished out 2000SF of the basement including media room in about 10 months. Hint...HIRE OUT THE DRYWALL!!!

What is the real advantage of getting bonded leather? I'm just curious because on Roman's site it seems that there is only a $50 price difference between that and real leather, which doesn't seem like its a real big deal. It sounds like it may be a bit smoother and comparable to higher grade leather?

This is what I posted in the other thread:

This is Roman's post in his sale thread:
"Quote:Originally Posted by rsh

The bonded leather is a new material (I am talking about the latest generation of it) that is made of leather ground and meshed together with some synthetic components and then stretched into a new cover. The result is really amazing. The cover looks and feels like buttery soft almost lamb skin leather. It is also non-scratchable and because of added synthetic components could hold up quite better than leather (although only time will tell). I actually tried to scratch it with a key, and I could not even leave a mark on it.

So far we have sold quite a few recliners in this cover, and I have not heard any negative comments back. The feedback is actually quite positive.

Now, please understand, this is my opinion only and should be taken as an opinion and nothing else. I do believe that for many people who are trying to find none expensive solution, especially in today's difficult economic conditions, this is a great alternative to leather. It looks and feels great, it is scratch resistable and it is less expensive..."

I spoke with the supplier I recommended Roman to in the other thread. I sent him Roman's quote and asked him to find out if this is any better than bicast. He sent me an email this morning with a reply from one of the largest leather chemical suppliers in the world.

"Quote:If you are truly a leather guy – you should be totally offended – this is just an other cheap way to say you have leather –what you have is a man made imitation – “A CHEAP KNOCK OFF”

If you are a chemical guy – you will love this as you get to sell a lots of chemicals – as this product is nothing more than a painted man made substrate. –



Leather on the other hand can not be duplicated – the soft buttery feel comes from the skins used and enhanced with the coatings that give it it’s unique characteristics – This my friend can not be duplicated.

Real leather is like a fine bottle of wine or the best you can imagine in a beautiful woman!! "

Until Roman makes the five minute trek with a sample over to this supplier, this supplier runs across some samples from somewhere else, myself or another industry friend runs across this new material, I can only say proceed with caution.

Here is a link that a very knowledgeable industry friend sent me:
http://www.mainlychairs.co.nz/leather%20advice.htm

Does the Bonded leather breathe?

Does the Bonded leather breathe?

After skinning it; chopping it up into little pieces; combining it with solvents, glues, and other man-made chemicals; no, it is finally dead.

CJ

PS- sorry at my poor attempt at humor. Not sure about the answer to the question you are really asking.

Does the Bonded leather breathe?

Yes, it does.

As long as it doesn't snore during the quite parts. It's bad enough when we watch movies with the in laws :rolleyes:

-Suntan

My theater seats are Bonded Leather, and so far I am very pleased with both how they look and how they feel. Bonded seems to have a smoother finish, so they appear to be a flawless leather. They are smooth, soft, and not very cold to the touch when you first sit down. As for durability, being in the dedicated theater room, they will get much less wear and tear than any other room as the only time anyone sits in them is during movie viewing. If they last for several bulbs (or several projectors) I will be happy with the investment as they were cheap. I did get one row of new seats, and one row that was a floor model. The floor model has some marks on the backs of the seats, mainly at the top corners, but very minor and not noticeable. If a floor model can stand up that well, then they should hold up very well in my theater. They were discontinued when I bought them, so they were likely on a sales floor for quite a while. I went from a $500 cloth couch and loveseat set to these, so they were a signifigant upgrade.

Row of 3 / Manual Recline / Bonded Leather $1,107.00
Row of 3 / Manual Recline / Leather $1,387.00

thats the difference. pretty significant if you ask me.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r47/nezff/Leather/DSC02051.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r47/nezff/Leather/DSC02053.jpg
http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r47/nezff/Leather/DSC02055.jpg

The 75062 is OLD bonded leather. The new one is 76067.

so you are saying that the new looks better or what? if it looks shiny like this one, I myself would lean towards the real leather. I like the bonded for the price, but by the time you add the montage warranty it comes to about $90 difference on three seats for my pricing.

post a pic of the new bonded roman and we can compare

$1256 bonded with warranty row of three
$1347 leather with warranty row of three

You need to see and feel the bonded leather in person. Pictures do not do justice. Both bonded leathers OLD and NEW have more sheen than the leather, but the new bonded leather is much softer - feels almost like lamb skin leather. I an email you the picture of new one if you need to see it...

these are my samples, I can feel them fine. please post a pic or email me one up close
nezff@hotmail.com

sent you an email w/picture.

wow, the newer bonded does look pretty good.

It is also feels much better. Of course this is my opinion only...

i went with the real leather, by the time i paid shipping, I got a better price on real leather than bonded. thats a no brainer.

Hey all I am going for the Bonded leather myself. Row of 4 from Roman.

At htmarket.com we don't order any of our containers in bonded just yet. we only order leather match at this time. I am not convinced it's a good product yet. It's less expensive at cost but if you have to replace in shorter time period than it's really not cheaper or less expensive in the long run. I would like to check back with some owners of bonded leather in future to see if it has held up in 3 years so until we find that out I won't sell something we don't know for sure over time will hold up. Buyers should be concerned with lifetime ownership as replacing seats in 3 to 5 years is not a good option and you would not of save any money at all, maybe you save 150 on a set of 3 but you save nothing in long run if you have to replace or the product looks bad after 3 years.

alan hutchinson
President
htmarket.com

received my Bonded Leather from Roman, they feel great, I'm coming from natuzzi sofas.

I have had my bonded leather Berks for probably 8 months now. I and everybody who sits in them love them. Very soft and comfortable. No signs of wear what so ever.

Any updates from the bonded leather users? Have they held up? I have dogs plus a 1 year old, so durability is very important.

Roman, are you going to carry the Lane 176 seats? Do you know when they might be available?

I need a straight 4 of seats, and am considering the Lane 176 Matrix (replacement for Berkline 12011) in black bonded. The upgrade to top grain is $800 for 4 seats, way to big of a price difference for me, unless the bonded is falling apart for people.

Glimmerman911,

Contact me off line. I do not want to violate any forum rules. I will tell you everything about what's available and what is coming... :)

Still love mine!

What about the distinctive smell of leather. Does the bonded leather have the leather smell?

Bonded leather does not smell. Leather will lose the smell in some period of time as well.

Still love mine!

Awesome, good to hear thank you!

Bonded leather does not smell. Leather will lose the smell in some period of time as well.

Will do, thank you Roman.

Polyurethane (bonded leather) is generally considered a better upholstery material than vinyl. And vinyl has been used in upholstery with good success for many years. Just like leather or vinyl, bonded is better if kept out of direct sunlight. Otherwise it is a good choice if you want to avoid the extra cost of real leather.

Bonded leather is definitely the way I am going, thanks u for all your input!