The epson costs around $2,500 with rebate while the JVC costs around $3,800.

What do you guys think?

Between those two I'd pick...Pioneer fpj1 (rs2) for under $3k

That's like apples to oranges in so many ways...

Both great units in their own regard, but the situation, room layout, seating, screen if already have one, and budget also have something to play in this.

Post some more details, but I have that "can of worms" feeling about this thread.

What is the Pioneer fpj1?

Why is the msrp $9,000 when you can buy it for $3,000?

It's just a jvc rs2/hd100 with a pioneer logo on it. rs2 has better contrast than rs10, and better overall picture according to some - but not the others.

It's just a jvc rs2/hd100 with a pioneer logo on it. rs2 has better contrast than rs10, and better overall picture according to some - but not the others.

But why does it have a $9,000 msrp and only cost around $2,750 on eBay?

Something about pioneer closing down and selling off the inventory.

Something about pioneer closing down and selling off the inventory.

Really? So that means the stores might sell out soon?

The epson costs around $2,500 with rebate while the JVC costs around $3,800.

What do you guys think?


Something_Soft,

I went through the same thing, except I was comparing the JVC HD750 with the Epson 7500ub, but while demoing both units, I also demoed the HD350 side by side with the Epson 7500ub (same as 6500ub but black and supports vertical stretching to use with Anamorphic lens).

The short story, is that I though the HD350 was hands down the better projector when compared with the Epson, but you will have to make that decision yourself after you demo both units. Which ever brand you go with, make sure you buy it from an anuthorized dealer, to verify check out JVC or Epson's site or call them to make sure the seller/dealer is authorized.

For your reading pleasure, click on the link below which will take you to my JVC versus Epson comparison thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1115897&page=4

Why don't you fans of/experts on the RS2 and RS10 list the pros and cons compared to the 6500UB? That might be a nice start. Known "issues" should also be included. No projector is perfect.

Edit: Also, it doesn't look like the RS2 is all that bright. So maybe the RS10 is worth the extra cost over the closeout RS2 (Pioneer version).

I'm a first time projector buyer. Never had experience with projectors. At the end of this month my cinemaroom will be ready. So I researched alot on this and other forums. But as many say: in the end, I only trust my eyes, so I went for a demo.

I 've seen both (DLA-RS10 and 6500UB) in the same demoroom last friday.

6500UB was sharp. Colors were very accurate. I was very impressed at the first look.

Than the JVC was put on. Not really as sharp as the 6500UB but a very nice 'smoothness' of the screen. I didn 't feel the picture missed detail. It was very cinematic and I liked it (a lot) more then the 6500UB.

Colors were a tad oversaturated on the JVC, which wasn 't a big problem for me. Skin tones were natural on most movies. (all but Indiana Jones, with skintones a bit reddish. But still very watchable) Depth was tremendous thanx to the mindblowing ON/OFF. The Dark Knight was VERY impressive. The daytime IMAX-parts were VERY SHARP. The nighttime IMAX-parts were very sharp with MINDBLOWING contrast. Cars was very nice. The opening sequence with the 'cut to blacks' was impressive thanks to the exeptional black level. Images were very sharp. I had seen parts of this movie on a IN81 of a friend, and I didn't feel it was less sharp on the JVC.

At this point we switched a few times back to the Epson. I knew immediatly I liked the JVC way more.

I was glad to see the 'motion blur' wasn 't an issue to me. Perhaps because I watched a couple of years a really bad LCD-tv on that matter. But still, I was afraid the size of the image would exagerate the blur. (Almost) none seen. Maybe at the very beginning, but I felt my eyes adapted to it quickly.

After the demo, I decided to order a JVC. Alone... I was torn between the RS10 and RS20. Not because of black levels, because I believe the difference isn 't that big. Even in a fully lightcontroled room, according to the forums. But the colour. I was affraid sooner or later I would notice the offcolours more and more. But I cannot be sure of that.
So now I decided to get the RS10, and IF the colours appear to be problematic for me, I 'll order a Radiance later.

That was all. I 'll report back when my JVC is installed. Should be before the end of march. Sorry for my bad English.

Why don't you fans of/experts on the RS2 and RS10 list the pros and cons compared to the 6500UB? That might be a nice start. Known "issues" should also be included. No projector is perfect.

Edit: Also, it doesn't look like the RS2 is all that bright. So maybe the RS10 is worth the extra cost over the closeout RS2 (Pioneer version).

I agree, I would not spent a dime on last year's JVC RS2/HD100 unless you have a screen smaller than 110" and can fully control lighting down to bat cave settings. The RS2 lumens may be good the first 500 hours, but brightness will wear down in a room with uncontrolled amboent lighting. Thats the reason why I sold my HD100 back in September in favor of the RS20 which I should be FINALLY receiving today :D

On the other hand, regarding the comparison between the 6500/7500ub and the RS10/RS20, I can sit here all day long and compare Epson's overblown paper specs with JVC's. I had started a comparison thread (see link above in my last post) and I wanted to save $2500 so bad by buying the 7500ub over the RS20, no matter how many JVC fans hounded me to buy the JVC and ditch the Epson. My wife and I were pretty convinced that we're going to get the Epson 7500ub until we had compared it side by side with the RS20 and RS10. In brief, my wife and I thought the Epson was aesthetically very ugly, very loud, and did not throw a good picture compared to what the RS20 and RS10 did. We were willing to ignore how bad it looked if it werent so darn loud and we spent a good 2 hours player in different color/brightness/sharpness/contrast/mode settings, the the Epson 7500 couldnt not touch the prestine RS10/RS20 picture. If you were to demo the Epson 6500/7500 it will look amazing but once you put it side by side with the RS10 or RS20 all of the sudden it doesn't look that good anymore. Like I said I can list and compare paper specs you already from both projectors, or I can just tell you what my eyes saw when I did the side by side demo. The blacks were So much blacker and and all the colors shined on the JVC, the yellow was so much yellower and the red was so much red-er, I mean when you have such a large greyscale range from such a high AI-free native CR, this is exactly what you get, a PURE color rendition that can be dialed up or down, but its about as film-like as it can get, no FI gimmicks, its about as close as you could get to a theater experience in my opinion.

Now is the RS20/HD750 the best PJ out there? Hell no....I bet you the Planar 8150 and possibly the HD8200 will throw a slightly better picture, but I was not interested in DLP, and the RS20 had most of the PRO's we all look for with the least amount of Conns, so in other words it was the lesser evil, but in a good way. The only bad things I could list about the RS20 is the currently broken CMS, everything else was near perfect IMHO. This is the best projector you could get under $6000, and I will tell you that the RS10 will be the next best projector, then the rest of the PJs come as a far 3rd.

This is coming from someone who is a projector newb, I am not a JVC or DILA fanboy, I honestly do not think that JVC makes Anything good, other than their DILA projectors, everything else they make sucks!! But I know a good picture when I see one.


Back to the OP (something_soft),
You really have to go out and demo the RS10 and the Epson 7500/6500ub, and side by side if possible. I am not going to force my preference on you, you have to make that decision. I just think that if you do see the difference in picture and end up prefering the JVC over the Epson like I did, then its so worth it to spend the extra $1000, if you dont have the extra funds to buy the RS10, then wait a couple of months and save up the extra money, it will be well worth the wait IMHO. But stay away from the RS2, Pioneer, asd they will not have enough lumens, unless you have a fairly medium-small size screen, the RS2 and the Pioneer reboxed JVC-RS2 will probably only throw 500 lumens in best mode, and that is not enough to continuously fill up a 110" or larger screen for more than 1000 hours on the bulb. So you will be changing $400 bulbs on every year or so, in a couple of years you would have spent almost the same amount of money you would have saved from not buying the brighter RS10.

Tambian, you story is so much like mine, I feel like you were in the same showroom I was in at the same time, even though that is impossible. But I did watch CARS, Transformers, and Phantom of the Opera, and my review on the thread I had posted above, is almost verbatim like yours. The Epson 7500ub looked great until we demoed it side by side with the RS10, there was a world of difference in color and greyscale range, and the blacks! need I say more?

By the way, did you get a chance to turn on FI, I though it was dreadful it made everything look too real as if you're looking out the window, it totally killed the Cinema and Film feel for me, it really did make everything you watched (even the news) look like an underproduced soap opera. Also by the way, if you think the Epson was a tad bit sharper, it may be because of many factory OOB settings that increases perceived sharpness (FI on normal mode, Sharpness is set somewhat high out of the box...etc). While with the exception of colors, the JVC seems to have everything else out of the box dialed down to a medium setting.


I'm a first time projector buyer. Never had experience with projectors. At the end of this month my cinemaroom will be ready. So I researched alot on this and other forums. But as many say: in the end, I only trust my eyes, so I went for a demo.

I 've seen both (DLA-RS10 and 6500UB) in the same demoroom last friday.

6500UB was sharp. Colors were very accurate. I was very impressed at the first look.

Than the JVC was put on. Not really as sharp as the 6500UB but a very nice 'smoothness' of the screen. I didn 't feel the picture missed detail. It was very cinematic and I liked it (a lot) more then the 6500UB.

Colors were a tad oversaturated on the JVC, which wasn 't a big problem for me. Skin tones were natural on most movies. (all but Indiana Jones, with skintones a bit reddish. But still very watchable) Depth was tremendous thanx to the mindblowing ON/OFF. The Dark Knight was VERY impressive. The daytime IMAX-parts were VERY SHARP. The nighttime IMAX-parts were very sharp with MINDBLOWING contrast. Cars was very nice. The opening sequence with the 'cut to blacks' was impressive thanks to the exeptional black level. Images were very sharp. I had seen parts of this movie on a IN81 of a friend, and I didn't feel it was less sharp on the JVC.

At this point we switched a few times back to the Epson. I knew immediatly I liked the JVC way more.

I was glad to see the 'motion blur' wasn 't an issue to me. Perhaps because I watched a couple of years a really bad LCD-tv on that matter. But still, I was afraid the size of the image would exagerate the blur. (Almost) none seen. Maybe at the very beginning, but I felt my eyes adapted to it quickly.

After the demo, I decided to order a JVC. Alone... I was torn between the RS10 and RS20. Not because of black levels, because I believe the difference isn 't that big. Even in a fully lightcontroled room, according to the forums. But the colour. I was affraid sooner or later I would notice the offcolours more and more. But I cannot be sure of that.
So now I decided to get the RS10, and IF the colours appear to be problematic for me, I 'll order a Radiance later.

That was all. I 'll report back when my JVC is installed. Should be before the end of march. Sorry for my bad English.

[QUOTE=damnsam77;15963326]Something_Soft,

I went through the same thing, except I was comparing the JVC HD750 with the Epson 7500ub, but while demoing both units, I also demoed the HD350 side by side with the Epson 7500ub (same as 6500ub but black and supports vertical stretching to use with Anamorphic lens).

The short story, is that I though the HD350 was hands down the better projector when compared with the Epson, but you will have to make that decision yourself after you demo both units. Which ever brand you go with, make sure you buy it from an anuthorized dealer, to verify check out JVC or Epson's site or call them to make sure the seller/dealer is authorized.

For your reading pleasure, click on the link below which will take you to my JVC versus Epson comparison thread (/QUOTE)

I was interested in the JVC too; however, I bought the Epson 7500 because it will do something the JVC units or any of my other projectors won't do and that is produce a stunning 3D like highly detailed image with animation with frame interpolation on. It is also extremely good with live concerts. All the projectors without frame interpolation (smooth motion or whatever) simply cannot do this. If you're not into animation or live concerts then go with a JVC or some other unit, but if you are then you owe it to yourself to have a look at the Epson, Panasonic or Sanyo projectors. Guests to my HT who are use to the image produced by my G90 (incredible blacks) are stunned by what the 7500 does with animation and live concerts.

As a point of reference for the OP:

1. I have 0 issues with the "noise" of my 7500, I can hear a whisper is I listen for it.

2. The FI can be turned (and left) off.

I was interested in the JVC too; however, I bought the Epson 7500 because it will do something the JVC units or any of my other projectors won't do and that is produce a stunning 3D like highly detailed image with animation with frame interpolation on. It is also extremely good with live concerts. All the projectors without frame interpolation (smooth motion or whatever) simply cannot do this. If you're not into animation or live concerts then go with a JVC or some other unit, but if you are then you owe it to yourself to have a look at the Epson, Panasonic or Sanyo projectors. Guests to my HT who are use to the image produced by my G90 (incredible blacks) are stunned by what the 7500 does with animation and live concerts.

I guess I am more into the natural film-like look, I did not appreciate what FI added to the picture, if I want to look at something with triple and quadruple the frame rate of 24fps or 60fps, I can just look out the window. I see my dedicated theater, with the film-like quality of the RS20 over a 130" wide scope screen, as an escape from reality, the last thing I want to see is a picture that resembled what I would typically see looking outside the window. I just appreciate the film-like quality far more than FI or any over the top digital enhancements, even on animation and sports/concerts. I am just a weirdie like that I guess :cool:

As a point of reference for the OP:

1. I have 0 issues with the "noise" of my 7500, I can hear a whisper is I listen for it.

2. The FI can be turned (and left) off.

Agreed on the FI , if you hate it, turn it off. But on the noise level, have you compared it with the JVC RS10/RS20/HD350/HD750? You may think the Epson is quiet when compared to other PJs like the InFocus IN83, but if you put it in the same room with one of the new JVCs, and test both in all different modes (Best, Brightest, high lamp mode, high altitude mode) you will understand why I thought the Epson 7500 was too loud compared to the near whisper quiet RS20/RS10.

I've read the pioneer is the same as the rs1 and rs2. A professional review said it was the rs1.

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Pioneer-KRP9000FD-D-ILA-Projector-Review.html

I watch a lot of animated movies with my young children and my only major regret on the RS10 is no FI for those types of movies or sports. It is fun to watch the movies and marvel (and pick apart) the picture...while your kids next to you are just enjoying the movie...:p

I watch a lot of animated movies with my young children and my only major regret on the RS10 is no FI for those types of movies or sports. It is fun to watch the movies and marvel (and pick apart) the picture...while your kids next to you are just enjoying the movie...:p

I will add that I did demo the 6500 and for me it was still worth the extra money, and no FI, to go with the rs10. I would have been happy with either though.

Anyone wanna buy a 6500UB? :p

Starting to get the D-ILA "fever". ;)

Seriously, though... for $2500 (or less) after the new $500 rebate, the Epson delivers a very impressive image and sets a new bar for 3LCD contrast/blacks.

Has no one mentioned that the Epson is much much brighter in bright mode. Great feature to have for watching sports, gaming etc... if you wanna be able to have a few lights on. That would be a huge pro for me.

Anyone wanna buy a 6500UB? :p

Starting to get the D-ILA "fever". ;)

Seriously, though... for $2500 (or less) after the new $500 rebate, the Epson delivers a very impressive image and sets a new bar for 3LCD contrast/blacks.

Has no one mentioned that the Epson is much much brighter in bright mode. Great feature to have for watching sports, gaming etc... if you wanna be able to have a few lights on. That would be a huge pro for me.


I agree on both statements, The Epson 6500ub is the best projector money can buy for under $3000, the JVC RS10/HD350 is the best you can buy under $4000, and then the RS20/HD750...at least this is my subjective opionion.

As far as brightness, it is true if you have a lot of ambient lighting and no controlled lighting (e.g. cannot have bat cave, dark blinds, natural light leakage and no use of something like Grafikeye) then you will be better off with the brighter 6500ub in Brightest mode, but I did notice that the overall color range and blacks were crushed in Brightest mode on the Epson when compared to brightest mode on the RS10/RS20. If you can 100% control your lighting then the RS10/RS20 is the way to go, if you have a lot of daytime ambient lighting issues that cannot be controlled then the Epson might be the better solution, not better picture in my opinion.

I recently returned a 6500 and replaced it with an RS10. My initial comments posted at the time were:

We just returned an Epson 6500UB due to excessive mis-convergence and rather than chance another one, upgraded to an RS10. First impressions after watching some HDTV, Madagascar on DVD (our 5 year old watched it 4 or 5 times) and Dark Knight on Bluray:
- The RS10 throws an excellent picture, definitely a step up overall from the 6500UB. The detail on Dark Knight was amazing.
- I left the iris open (setting 3). I found settings 1 and 2 too dark. Maybe its an acquired taste. So the 33,000:1 contrast ratio won't likely be experienced in our theater. Never mind, still a great picture.
- Not nearly as bright as the 6500UB on any setting, but bright enough in our light controlled room.
- Out of the box color is way more accurate than the Epson was. The Epson would have required a calibration. The RS10 is pretty good already. Neither are close to the Samsung H710 we used for the past 3 years. If only it had been 1080p or its successors were affordable....
- I think I preferred the Epson remote with its direct access buttons to the various inputs. With the RS10 to move from HDMI 2 to HDMI 1 you have to cycle through all the inputs, which it does slowly. That's a pain.
- The powered zoom, focus and shift are really cool.
- For those who care about aesthetics, the RS10 is beautiful in comparison to the Epson.

After a few hours of viewing, I am very pleased with this projector and don't regret spending the extra dollars.

After a few more hours of viewing I have absolutely no doubt that the RS10 was the right decision for our theater.

I was interested in the JVC too; however, I bought the Epson 7500 because it will do something the JVC units or any of my other projectors won't do and that is produce a stunning 3D like highly detailed image with animation with frame interpolation on. It is also extremely good with live concerts. All the projectors without frame interpolation (smooth motion or whatever) simply cannot do this. If you're not into animation or live concerts then go with a JVC or some other unit, but if you are then you owe it to yourself to have a look at the Epson, Panasonic or Sanyo projectors. Guests to my HT who are use to the image produced by my G90 (incredible blacks) are stunned by what the 7500 does with animation and live concerts.

I can see why some would like this. I first saw this effect on the Samsung 71 LCD in BB. A crowd gathered around the set and we marveled how it looked like the actors were inside the TV walking around. However, after I saw it a few times later movies started looking very fake so to me I suppose the newness wore off. Still, I thought some applications like animated and games and such would look good with this effect. And in your case this sounds like a top priority.

Its been said that the Epson 6500ub being a 1600 lumens projector is brighter than the JVC hd350(1000 lumens) but when I go to projectorcentral.com projection calculator the brightness I get from the JVC is higher than the Epson at the same distance and with the same screen size.

JVC HD-350, 120" screen(1.0 gain),15 feet distance = 18fl

Epson 6500UB, same screen, same distance = 15fl

can someone explain this to me?

Let me try. Epson gets about 680 lumens when in movie mode and calibrated. JVC has about 700-900 lumens in the same mode. Where the epson gets advantage in brightness is the "Dynamic" mode that boosts the lumens by over 2x, but destroys color accuracy and shadow detail. The jvc also has the brightness-optimized mode but brightness gain over the color-optimized mode is much less.

My experience was that the 6500 was brighter in all modes - I still preferred the RS10 picture.

Agreed on the FI , if you hate it, turn it off. But on the noise level, have you compared it with the JVC RS10/RS20/HD350/HD750? You may think the Epson is quiet when compared to other PJs like the InFocus IN83, but if you put it in the same room with one of the new JVCs, and test both in all different modes (Best, Brightest, high lamp mode, high altitude mode) you will understand why I thought the Epson 7500 was too loud compared to the near whisper quiet RS20/RS10.

As I said, my 7500 is "whisper quiet" already. The only way for me to hear it is to really try, and even then it is hard to do.

It is what it is.

Let me try. Epson gets about 680 lumens when in movie mode and calibrated. JVC has about 700-900 lumens in the same mode. Where the epson gets advantage in brightness is the "Dynamic" mode that boosts the lumens by over 2x, but destroys color accuracy and shadow detail. The jvc also has the brightness-optimized mode but brightness gain over the color-optimized mode is much less.

The Epson for color correct and higher brightness should be calibrated on Natural/Normal NOT Dynamic. On that mode it's still higher than the JVC.

Dynamic on any projector turns it into as much of a light cannon as possible, picture and color be damned.

As I said, my 7500 is "whisper quiet" already. The only way for me to hear it is to really try, and even then it is hard to do.

It is what it is.

Oh I believe you, its just the Epson 7500ub I demoed was would have been louder than the PS3 and XBOX360 combined, it was annoyingly loud, it was just audibly loud like an xbox360. While the RS20/RS10 were virtually silent. Here in Colorado, you have to turn on High Altitude mode since we're more than 5500 feet above sea level, and from what I understand HighElevation mode is a tad louder.

Let me try. Epson gets about 680 lumens when in movie mode and calibrated. JVC has about 700-900 lumens in the same mode. Where the epson gets advantage in brightness is the "Dynamic" mode that boosts the lumens by over 2x, but destroys color accuracy and shadow detail. The jvc also has the brightness-optimized mode but brightness gain over the color-optimized mode is much less.


So are we to believe that the projectorcental.com projection calculator give us the brightness measurement on projectors set to movie mode?

So are we to believe that the projectorcental.com projection calculator give us the brightness measurement on projectors set to movie mode?

I am pretty sure Art goes through an intensive testing of each mode, but his overall opinion as far as lumens and screen size will be mostly based on Best Mode, and I agree that it should be in Best Mode, because this is the mode that gives you the best combination of best contrasts and brightness without adverselt affecting or crushing colors, blacks and greyscale range. That's why the JVC, IMHO, is the better projector even though the Epson sounds better on paper. So the Epson may be brighter in Brightest mode, but the picture quality is brightest mode on the Epson won't come close to the RS10/RS20/HD750/HD350 in best mode.

I don't know if you've made a decision yet, but I have the Pioneer FPJ1/JVC RS-2 and it is much brighter than I thought. I was considering a 6500UB (never demoed one) and the W5000 but couldn't pass up the deal on the FPJ1. Also, it is an RS-2, not an RS-1. If you look at the Pioneer site they don't come right out and say it's a JVC, but they do say this:
"Three 0.7-inch 1080p D-ILA imagers provide deep, accurate black levels"
If you know your JVC projectors, you know that D-ILA is their trade name.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/EliteProjectors/ci.PRO-FPJ1.Kuro

Even the review at projector central says:
"The Pioneer Elite PRO-FPJ1 projector is manufactured by JVC as the DLA-RS2."
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Pioneer-Elite_PRO-FPJ1.htm

I just got the RS10 up and running over the weekend. My initial impressions:

1. This thing is whisper quiet! I don't even know it's on even on brightest mode. my UPS is much much louder. In short, I can't hear it and it's less than 2 ft above my head while my UPS is much further away.

2. It is very bright. I'm coming from a flat panel LCD which I leave on dynamic (brightest) mode all the time. I have a overhead light between the RS10 and the screen and even with the light on, it still projects a decent, very watchable image which surprisingly isn't that washed out. (maybe because I have less than 10 hours on the bulb)

3. Very nice image.... the blacks? forget about it!