Bic Vk-12 Is an entry level sub.
I just bought a Bic vk-12 and expected it to be something amazing. It was not. All the reviews everywhere are lies about the performance of this sub. Well lets not says lies, but there is a lotta hype out there.

Here's my probably people attempt to compare this sub with Klipsch and other decent subwooffers @ $500 and there is no comparison. David or whatever his name is over at Sound Distributors told me that this sub was close to a Klipsch reference sub. Thats a bold faced lie. About all I can say about the bic is that it has bass. It's boomy and not puchy. It can get somewhat loud. I'm not saying the sub is a bad sub, its just not a real low frequency. The sub does sound decent for movies cause it can provide shaking and rumbling, but as far as music goes, it's way to boomy.

When looking at reviews, I believe people must keep in mind that people review products based on their price range and not quality. So when someone only pays $300 for this sub, they are going to say it is great. This leads others to believe that the sub is something is not. The sub is great at it's price, but it's not a real sub in terms of audiophile type of sound. What I will say though is that if your coming from a HTIB system then this subwoofer will blow the socks off of whatever you had before. If given the choice to get this sub or the klipsch synergy, I'd say go with synergy.

Currently I have a Cadence X-sub which is a cheap sub just like the vk-12. I think the Cadence cost me $249 or $300. The Cadence sub is better. I bought this with the expectations that the vk-12 would blow the socks off of my Cadence. My girl heard the Vic and told me wow the cadence sounds better. Know if a girl can hear the difference in audio then you know there is a problem. The other ironic this is that the Cadence sub I have is like 5 Years old. I'm not even talking about the new model. If you get the new CSX-12 then this is probably definately better than the Vic.

As I wanted an upgrade, boxed up the Vic and am sending it back today. I literally listened to it for like 5 minutes, realized all the reviews were hype and individuals who can't afford high quality sub, and don't know better probably because they've never heard a real good sub.

I just ordered a AV123 MWF-15 which weighs 120 shipped and has the 6th highest rating on his sub list. The H-100 which is suppose to be Vic little brother is rated for all intensive purposes last. of like 30 subs.

All in all I would only suggest this sub if your coming up from a HTIB sub, or you just don't have money. Otherwise look into SVS, HSU, AV123, and others and don't be fooled by the hype or reviews of cheap audiophiles.

Please feel free to put in your 2 cents on comparisons between this subs and other, and explain the difference between this subs and other high level subs, so people understand the differences in quality.

Wow, you tried different locations, crossover points, volume settings, and other frequently discussed ways of going about setting a sub up properly in 5 minutes.

Then you jump to an $830 delivered sub.

Thanks for your exhaustive trial.

He's really fast. (What you did not realize is he typed up the entire post in 4.2 seconds)

He has to be a "bass" expert as far as cheap subs go. He admits that he listened to the Vk-12 for all of 5 minutes before he gave his expert opinion on it.

Bill

6th highest on his sub list..."who list is that?"

6th highest on his sub list..."who list is that?"

http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11

You guys must own that crappy sub. I don't need to adjust anything. I had the sub hooked and was switching the sub in and out with my cadence xsub. You can clearly hear that the sub sounds boomy no matter what you do with it. This subs little brother was rated last on craigsub list. It's a cheap inexpensive sub and it's no way either one of you guys can say that this sub can compare with a HSU OR SVS. Yeah to an entry level audio person they may say this sub sounds good. But once you've heard quality you know what it is. I just got rid of an rsw-12 Klipsch that was worth 2500 new. Know that sounded good.

The whole point I'm making is that people go around acting like this sub is somekind of miracle that resembles a high level sub and it doesn't its a cheap entry level sub and that's what it sounds like. I hope you guys never hear what a real sub sounds like because you will feel like you've been cheated.

It's definatly did not sound better than the cadence xsub which is in the same price bracket. Tell me something when you hook up a pair of speakers and you hear a song, you know whether the speakers are good or not without doing anything to them. I don't need hours to decide whether this sub sounds good or not, because I had it right next to a sub which sounded better. I thought the bic would be an upgrade but it played lower volumes and didn't have as much thump as the cadence, so why waste my time trying to even put it in a corner or playing around with the thing when right off the bat it sounds boomy and not as tight as my other sub. It also played at lower levels at the same volume, which means it's DB rating sucks.

Coming from the RSW 12, I know what a real sub should sound like. I didn't have to calibrate anything for that sub. I hooked it up turned it on it shook the walls off and sounded amazing. You heard and felt it immediately, there is no question or second guessing.

To tell me you can't figure out whether a sub is good or not in 5 minutes is ridiculous. If you listen to a $100 sub then you listen to the Bic, you will know instantly that the bic is way better. You don't need to do anything. It will naturally have way more power and will shake your house like never before. You don't need anything to figure this out. Apparently you guys haven't heard a real sub. Are you guys trying to tell me that if you listened to HSU or SVS or ED, you think you would'nt be able to tell the difference in a heartbeat between a high level sub and one's that is not. Of course you would. Maybe it's my fault for expecting so much from this sub at such a cheap price. I was looking for an upgrade from my cadence and it was very apparent right from the start that this sub was at the same price range and level of my current sub. I want an upgrade not the same thing or worse. I know it sounds like I hate this sub, but I don't It's a good sub at its price but it's not a good sub compared to more expensive models.

Can I get anybody with a real sub to chime in and help me out here. Apparently I'm just getting those who must own this sub.

Also I didn't pay no $930. I got a B stock Black one for 450 plus shipping of 130, and I bought store credit from a guy at 10% discount, so I got my sub for $522. So I'm pretty much getting a $1000 sub which is rated the same as $1500 sub for a Cheapo price. You can't beat that. Everyone on this forum knows that the MFW will kill the Bic and for $200 who would turn down this deal. By the way if you don't know who rated these type in craigsub list. It's a list of subwoofer ratings, based on several test, and you will see where this sub rates and where that bic rates at the bottom.

Thank you blast. I just have to hope my amp is ok. But I'm definately not going to be gental with it. I'm going to try to play this thing loud and push it too it's limit, so that if it's going to die on me it will happen way before the warranty ever expires.

Its a good thing he only listens to his subs for five minutes because that's just about how long the amps in the MFW-15 last.

You guys must own that crappy sub. I don't need to adjust anything. I had the sub hooked and was switching the sub in and out with my cadence xsub. You can clearly hear that the sub sounds boomy no matter what you do with it. This subs little brother was rated last on craigsub list. It's a cheap inexpensive sub and it's no way either one of you guys can say that this sub can compare with a HSU OR SVS. Yeah to an entry level audio person they may say this sub sounds good. But once you've heard quality you know what it is. I just got rid of an rsw-12 Klipsch that was worth 2500 new. Know that sounded good.

The whole point I'm making is that people go around acting like this sub is somekind of miracle that resembles a high level sub and it doesn't its a cheap entry level sub and that's what it sounds like. I hope you guys never hear what a real sub sounds like because you will feel like you've been cheated.

It's definatly did not sound better than the cadence xsub which is in the same price bracket. Tell me something when you hook up a pair of speakers and you hear a song, you know whether the speakers are good or not without doing anything to them. I don't need hours to decide whether this sub sounds good or not, because I had it right next to a sub which sounded better. I thought the bic would be an upgrade but it played lower volumes and didn't have as much thump as the cadence, so why waste my time trying to even put it in a corner or playing around with the thing when right off the bat it sounds boomy and not as tight as my other sub. It also played at lower levels at the same volume, which means it's DB rating sucks.

Coming from the RSW 12, I know what a real sub should sound like. I didn't have to calibrate anything for that sub. I hooked it up turned it on it shook the walls off and sounded amazing. You heard and felt it immediately, there is no question or second guessing.

To tell me you can't figure out whether a sub is good or not in 5 minutes is ridiculous. If you listen to a $100 sub then you listen to the Bic, you will know instantly that the bic is way better. You don't need to do anything. It will naturally have way more power and will shake your house like never before. You don't need anything to figure this out. Apparently you guys haven't heard a real sub. Are you guys trying to tell me that if you listened to HSU or SVS or ED, you think you would'nt be able to tell the difference in a heartbeat between a high level sub and one's that is not. Of course you would. Maybe it's my fault for expecting so much from this sub at such a cheap price. I was looking for an upgrade from my cadence and it was very apparent right from the start that this sub was at the same price range and level of my current sub. I want an upgrade not the same thing or worse. I know it sounds like I hate this sub, but I don't It's a good sub at its price but it's not a good sub compared to more expensive models.

Can I get anybody with a real sub to chime in and help me out here. Apparently I'm just getting those who must own this sub.

Also I didn't pay no $930. I got a B stock Black one for 450 plus shipping of 130, and I bought store credit from a guy at 10% discount, so I got my sub for $522. So I'm pretty much getting a $1000 sub which is rated the same as $1500 sub for a Cheapo price. You can't beat that. Everyone on this forum knows that the MFW will kill the Bic and for $200 who would turn down this deal. By the way if you don't know who rated these type in craigsub list. It's a list of subwoofer ratings, based on several test, and you will see where this sub rates and where that bic rates at the bottom.
I own a pair of JL Audio F112's. I suppose that qualifies me as someone with a real sub. :D

The point everyone is trying to make is that there is a lot more to subwoofer setup than just plugging it in, turning it on and listening for 5 minutes. That sub may well be a lousy little sub, but at this point your opinion has little credibility until you've spent some time trying to optimize it. At *least* calibrate it properly and make sure your Bass Management settings are appropriate. Then try it in some different locations. (You *do* understand how much impact the room and sub position can have on the sound quality, correct? A sub can sound boomy in one location and smooth and articulate in another, all dependent on how the room modes are excited.)

If you do these things and still have the opinion that this is a lousy little sub, we'll probably believe you.

Craig

Funny I did not notice any klipsch subs ons craig subs list;)For the price key word (price) you will have a hard time finding a sub the quality of the bic sub every sub that scored higher is signficantly more expensive with the next best bang for the buck being the ed a2-300 at $ 350 and a month wait time.If you had $800 bucks to spend on a sub and consider yourself an audiophile I am curious as to why you bought $230 dollar sub anyways. and yeah I did used to have the h100.

Bic Vk-12 Is an entry level sub.

True

I just bought a Bic vk-12 and expected it to be something amazing.

Why? considering what you paid.

All the reviews everywhere are lies about the performance of this sub. Well lets not says lies, but there is a lotta hype out there.

What hype? The hype is about the H-100 at the $200 price mark and they are all true at that price, I've owned one. Every comparison I've seen between it and the VK says go with the H, it's the best value and performance and from my experience with the H-100 I would believe that to be true.

Here's my probably people attempt to compare this sub with Klipsch and other decent subwooffers @ $500 and there is no comparison.

And you think their should be at such different price points?

When looking at reviews, I believe people must keep in mind that people review products based on their price range and not quality.

Well duhh, do you expect Lexus performance and comfort from a KIA?

What I will say though is that if your coming from a HTIB system then this subwoofer will blow the socks off of whatever you had before.

That's the general consensus and people in the market at this price range are generally coming from HTIB or trying to build a budget system. There's not much of an alternative at a lower price other than HTIB.

Currently I have a Cadence X-sub which is a cheap sub just like the vk-12. I think the Cadence cost me $249 or $300. The Cadence sub is better.

Maybe, I haven't heard the VK, but I have done a side by side comparison in the same system between the X-sub and H-100, they are very comparable subs at the same price point. I preferred the H-100 slightly, I thought it sounded a tad better but measurements and objective listening showed them to be very comparable to each other at the same price point.

I bought this with the expectations that the vk-12 would blow the socks off of my Cadence.

Why, I haven't seen any reviews that showed the VK to be better than the X-sub and only a few with comparable feelings between the H-100 and X-sub.

My girl heard the Vic and told me wow the cadence sounds better. Know if a girl can hear the difference in audio then you know there is a problem.

Why diss girls. They have ears to and when thinking logically should know the difference in what they hear.

The other ironic this is that the Cadence sub I have is like 5 Years old. I'm not even talking about the new model. If you get the new CSX-12 then this is probably definately better than the Vic.

Actually the X-sub and CSX-12 is very comparable, tried them both. The amp has been upgraded in the CSX, performance may be a tad better but pretty much the same and I would agree both should be better than the VK-12, the H-100 or it's updated version is a different story.

I just ordered a AV123 MWF-15 which weighs 120 shipped and has the 6th highest rating on his sub list.

Congrats, It's an excellent sub, barring amp issues and if you have them they should take care of you. I'm totally confused as to why you didn't order it in the first place if you had the money. Why even consider a BIC?, which is a budget sub for budget systems? They aren't even comparable except they both make sound.

The H-100 which is suppose to be Vic little brother.

Never heard that one before. I've always heard the H-100 was the price/performance leader from Bic and the only one worth considering.

All in all I would only suggest this sub if your coming up from a HTIB sub, or you just don't have money. Otherwise look into SVS, HSU, AV123.

Well duhh, you get what you pay for. You shouldn't expect PB12 performance at a H-100 price. That's just logic.

Please feel free to put in your 2 cents on comparisons between this subs and other, and explain the difference between this subs and other high level subs, so people understand the differences in quality.

That horse has been beat to death. There are many threads in here that can be found with a search that explains these differences in detail from many views and for the most part they end up with the same message, you get what you pay for. Set a budget and look within that class and don't expect MFW-15 performance from a VK-12.

Know if a girl can hear the difference in audio then you know there is a problem.

Wow did you seriously just say that? Women tend to have more acute hearing then men by the way.

Dude whats with the taking every sentence and trying to decipher it somehow. I made a simple point and you guys want to take it out of context. My original post was meant for those like me, who believe that bic or h100 would perform better than it's price range based on the numerous reviews done. The guy who is taking all my sentences and responding to them, it just sounds like your affirming everthing that I said, I really don't see an arguments or disagreements so thank you for your agreement and praise.

As far as the guy after him, telling me girls have better ears, that is not the point I am making. Generally women don't care as much as men about a difference in quality of sound, nor do they try to listen for it. If any guy on this forum girlfriend all of a sudden started to comment on the quality of sound coming from their home theater system, Frankly I would be amazed, cause it just doesn't happen. So when my girl starts commenting on quality, then I listen (Cause women have such good ears right). Whats with the guy talking about me hating on girls and sound. Seems like you just want to make me the bad guy.

Why didn't I get the mwf in the first place? Because I thought with all the hype that the bic vk was a sub that performed above it's value, but it doesn't. You may want to say that it does, but it sounds, just like the cadence and other subs in it's price range. Yeah it may sound a little better but not enough to make it sounds like it the greatest thing off all time.

Here's is an analogy to dispute the, you get what you pay for comment. Hopefully this will make you guys stop your bickering and understand what the problem I have with this sub is.

The MWF-15 is $699 the B stock is 499. Know this sub is rated 6th on Craigsub. Which means this subs rank puts it at a level where it is in the $1500 price bracket. That is how much this sub should cost if you price it on performance. You guys got me so far. So that means that this sub, you can believe all the hype, and that makes this sub way undervalued at it's current price.

know lets go back to the good ol' Bic. Through reading all the post and super amazing reviews, I thought that the Bic was an undervalued sub, like the mwf. Based on the reviews and the way people made it sound, I thought it was not really comparable to HSU or SVS, but close to it, because of all the hype. Are you telling me that I am wrong for this. No, I'm not wrong, The only mistake I made was believing all the hype.

See the problem is, is that people who review the bic love the sub because it's all they know and the people who buy HSU say it's good because it's probably the best sub they've had, and the people who by buy 2 thousand dollar subs think they have the S#$%, because they just upgraded from a HSU and of course it sounds better. My problem is that there is no reference point. The only thing I did in my original posting was give a reference point and to say look this sub is no HSU or SVS it is entry level and boomy which the others are not. So don't go getting all mad on me because I squashed your sub, it is a good sub at $300 or $200, but the MWF at $600 is a fatastic supervalued subwoofer which the bic is not.

Now what are you guys going to say, your going to keep telling me that I should have calibrated it and put it in a corner. Look I'm not stupid, as soon as I heard the sub, I realized that it was an entry level sub, that sounded on the same level as the Xsub, which many of you have confirmed already. So why is it, you guys keep telling me, that I should have listened to it more, when right from the start, I knew it was the same level sub as the Xsub, by the way it sounded. I had both subs in the same place and could here the vic was boomier. I knew exactly what kind of sound would come from a good sub, and that sound did not come out of the Vic and that's it. There's nothing more to argue about. You guys said it yourself they are comparable so my initial five minute analysis of the sub was correct.

Another tad bit of info. For those of you who say why didn't you go off the Craigsub list ratings before you purchased the Vic. For one it's not on there. Secondly I never knew the list existed until after I bought the Bic. It wasn't until later that I noticed it's LITTLE BROTHER WAS RATED LAST. And don't try to say it's not it's little brother. The Vic has more wattage and if you call Sound Distributors David will tell you it's better. I think that's his name.

Also I'm not going to put all the blame on the reviews on here. The main reason I bought this sub was because the guy at SoundDistributors, told me that this sub was better than Klipsch sub 12 and was more comparable to the reference series subwoofer from Kliipsch, Are you kidding me. That was a total lie, and when I pulled that entry level sub out the box, I knew it, and know it's gone and here comes the MFW a truly great sub I hope.

Also I'm not the only one, saying that the sub is boomy, there are other posting stating this. Hopefully he's not getting his A hole Chewed out like me. Here's something else I've come to realize on here. The reason I'm getting chewed out so much and not getting any help form anyone is because, no one with a real sub or money would even look at a post about a cheap bic sub. LOL:)

Guys I just want you to know that I'm not mad at all, and that I'm having fun writing this, I'm actually smiling right know. I didn't think I would get this kind of response. I thought that I would just be helping those who thought the bic was more of a sub than it was. In fact I don't hate Bic, because I have an Xsub which is essentially the same sub, and my system sounds good, just not as good as it will next week. I just thought that the bic was a way better sub thats all, so lets be friends again.:D:D

As has been pointed out, the Bic that was getting major attention before was the H-100 (closer to $200), not the Vk-12.

The sub is great at it's price, but it's not a real sub in terms of audiophile type of sound.

Of course not...it's a glorified Bic H-100 with a bit more amp power that costs $100 more.

I literally listened to it for like 5 minutes, realized all the reviews were hype and individuals who can't afford high quality sub, and don't know better probably because they've never heard a real good sub.

Yes, that's probably true. People who have heard high-end subs won't have any interest in, nor will they rave about, a cheap $300 sub. As you yourself admitted, it sounds fine for the price, but it's not audiophile quality.

All in all I would only suggest this sub if your coming up from a HTIB sub, or you just don't have money.

Finally a worthwhile statement. That's exactly the target market for this sub. They don't have an audiophile product and aren't gunning for the high-end market. What they do have is a decent sub to compete with <$500 brick and mortar subs.

The MFW-15 is a good sub for sure, but don't get too caught up in the hype about it, either. Let's just say some people who have heard it and some of the other subs on "the list" wouldn't rank it quite as high. This isn't me trying to talk crap about the MFW-15...I've never heard it and I'm sure it's a quality sub. But it might not be the "supersub" it's cracked up to be either...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post
Bic Vk-12 Is an entry level sub.
True

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post
I just bought a Bic vk-12 and expected it to be something amazing.
Why? considering what you paid.

This was stated in the above post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post
All the reviews everywhere are lies about the performance of this sub. Well lets not says lies, but there is a lotta hype out there.
What hype? The hype is about the H-100 at the $200 price mark and they are all true at that price, I've owned one. Every comparison I've seen between it and the VK says go with the H, it's the best value and performance and from my experience with the H-100 I would believe that to be true.

I'm not looking for value, I'm looking for performance and Value and this sub Performance to Value is not as great something like the MWF. Most 300 subs sound like 300, just as the Bic does

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post
Here's my probably people attempt to compare this sub with Klipsch and other decent subwooffers @ $500 and there is no comparison.
And you think their should be at such different price points?

As the MWF shows your conclusion here is also not accurate, it performs at 1500 dollar level, so why can't I expect Bic to perform at $500 level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post
When looking at reviews, I believe people must keep in mind that people review products based on their price range and not quality.
Well duhh, do you expect Lexus performance and comfort from a KIA?

Again same analogy as above AV123 did it, they turned a kia into a lexus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post
What I will say though is that if your coming from a HTIB system then this subwoofer will blow the socks off of whatever you had before.
That's the general consensus and people in the market at this price range are generally coming from HTIB or trying to build a budget system. There's not much of an alternative at a lower price other than HTIB.

Sounds like your agreeing with me or telling me something I already know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post
Currently I have a Cadence X-sub which is a cheap sub just like the vk-12. I think the Cadence cost me $249 or $300. The Cadence sub is better.
Maybe, I haven't heard the VK, but I have done a side by side comparison in the same system between the X-sub and H-100, they are very comparable subs at the same price point. I preferred the H-100 slightly, I thought it sounded a tad better but measurements and objective listening showed them to be very comparable to each other at the same price point.

I pretty much came to the same conclusionis, thanks for the agreement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post
I bought this with the expectations that the vk-12 would blow the socks off of my Cadence.
Why, I haven't seen any reviews that showed the VK to be better than the X-sub and only a few with comparable feelings between the H-100 and X-sub.

I haven't either that's probably why I bought it, cause I didn't see any. The whole point is that I didn't know who the H100 sounded just that the vic sounded better, per the sound distributors rep. And don't try to tell me I shouldn't have trusted this guy, I have to trust someone and people on here talk about the guy all the time so I thought he was giving accurate info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post
My girl heard the Vic and told me wow the cadence sounds better. Know if a girl can hear the difference in audio then you know there is a problem.
Why diss girls. They have ears to and when thinking logically should know the difference in what they hear.

I responding to this in above post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post
The other ironic this is that the Cadence sub I have is like 5 Years old. I'm not even talking about the new model. If you get the new CSX-12 then this is probably definately better than the Vic.
Actually the X-sub and CSX-12 is very comparable, tried them both. The amp has been upgraded in the CSX, performance may be a tad better but pretty much the same and I would agree both should be better than the VK-12, the H-100 or it's updated version is a different story.

Again you agree with me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post
I just ordered a AV123 MWF-15 which weighs 120 shipped and has the 6th highest rating on his sub list.
Congrats, It's an excellent sub, barring amp issues and if you have them they should take care of you. I'm totally confused as to why you didn't order it in the first place if you had the money. Why even consider a BIC?, which is a budget sub for budget systems? They aren't even comparable except they both make sound.

Ah here in lies the whole reason behind the initial post, please read above post for clarification, this is answered there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post
The H-100 which is suppose to be Vic little brother.
Never heard that one before. I've always heard the H-100 was the price/performance leader from Bic and the only one worth considering.

The bic is somewhat new and there aren't as many reviews, and as many reviews. Again the sounddistributor guy said it was better. As far as beeing it's big brother, it's made by the same company with just more amps. Also I'm aware that there is suppose to be a H200 which is truly the big brother but the people on one of these forums, not sure if it was this one, said that it was pretty much a bic in a different box for more money, so that's why I call it it's big brother, but maybe more like illigitimate stepchild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post
All in all I would only suggest this sub if your coming up from a HTIB sub, or you just don't have money. Otherwise look into SVS, HSU, AV123.
Well duhh, you get what you pay for. You shouldn't expect PB12 performance at a H-100 price. That's just logic.

Again your wrong here, the MWF is rated to be as good as a sub as the PB13, at half the price, so that's why I expect miracles, because AV123 makes them happen. So that's just logic won't win here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evolvo View Post
Please feel free to put in your 2 cents on comparisons between this subs and other, and explain the difference between this subs and other high level subs, so people understand the differences in quality.

That horse has been beat to death. There are many threads in here that can be found with a search that explains these differences in detail from many views and for the most part they end up with the same message, you get what you pay for. Set a budget and look within that class and don't expect MFW-15 performance from a VK-12.

Maybe that horse has been beat to death, I just didn't see it happen. Trust me I never again will expect anything from Bic, but what I will expect is PB13 performance out of a MWF 15, Boo yowh baby:D.

I understand what your saying about the bic, and it being entry level, but my whole point is that a person like me, could easily come into this forum and believe that this sub is the sheezy based on HTIB ugraders reviews, and I just didn't want them to get caught up like I did with a sub that was not the real deal, but still a good deal.

Maybe that horse has been beat to death, I just didn't see it happen. Trust me I never again will expect anything from Bic, but what I will expect is PB13 performance out of a MWF 15, Boo yowh baby:D.

Prepare to be disappointed again...well, unless you never hear a PB13-Ultra ;)

How about this: Try setting your expectations in-line with the price you're paying. That way, if the sub exceeds these expectations, you can be happy. If not, you still got a great $600 sub :)

I know this subs will at least perform at the 500-600 range and thats what I initially intended to get, so I'm sure I'll be fine until my amp blows. But I'm hoping by that point they will have the new amps in from the new supplier. Thanks dude for not hating on me. These guys hurt my ego and almost made me cry, nah JJ.

WOW.....not sure exactly what I just finished reading. Was doing a search and stumbled here. Not exactly sure what the beef is.

Making a suggestion, I guess the bottom line, I think tweaking any sub will net better results than just throwing money at bigger subs.

That's where I'd start first. Move the sub around to different locations. Match SPLs to the front soundstage. Maybe do some EQ first....and then decide if spending more money for a different sub is in order.

MFW is a fine sub (excluding amp issues)....lots of "bang for the buck". I've also heard a system that was all BIC (with a BIC sub). The owner got it dialed in well. Sounded very good....especially for the price he paid. He said he bought it at Costco a couple of years ago. I was impressed.

Again, he spent some time "dialing" in the sub and it paid big dividends (without spending a lot of money).

I don't want a cheap Bic sub, I want a real sub, why is it hard for you guys to understand this. I don't care where you place my XSub or do to it, it won't sound anywhere near a PB13 or High end Klipsch. So what are you talking about. That battle has already been won already when the other guys told you that the Xsub sounds on the Same level as the Bic, so what your saying doesn't make since. I don't want a cheap sub, so stop tell me to place an entry level crappy sub in a better location. It's like you telling me to polish my kia and get rims on it. I want a lexus.

What I do not understand is why did Evolvo believe the BIC was remotely a good sub compared to any of the popular higher end subs? I have not even seen the 'Hype', really I didn't it had ANY HYPE. :eek:

BIC is an entry level sub for those that do not know anything about subs. Its worth $200 until you realize what a $200 DIY sub can do....My daily DIY plug ;)

Evolvo, you have just found out the BIC sub isnt a well designed sub at all, of couse what $200 sub is (except DIY) ;) People are not argueing that point they are just mocking the amount of time you took to figure that out ;)

Making a suggestion, I guess the bottom line, I think tweaking any sub will net better results than just throwing money at bigger subs.


I have to support the OP, you can tell a bad sub when you hear it. You do not need to tweak, place it 15 different ways to know it just is not a good sub. On the there side, you know when you hear a great Sub (JLs, PB13s, HSU, well built DIYs)

Now what are you guys going to say, your going to keep telling me that I should have calibrated it and put it in a corner. Look I'm not stupid, as soon as I heard the sub, I realized that it was an entry level sub, that sounded on the same level as the Xsub, which many of you have confirmed already. So why is it, you guys keep telling me, that I should have listened to it more, when right from the start, I knew it was the same level sub as the Xsub, by the way it sounded.

People are bored with their jobs and love to debate audio supremacy online ;)

Don't get too bent out of shape over it, I think you're lucky to spend little time on a crap sub...more time to spend on good subs :D

I'm done with you guys, I got me a good sub and I'm happy. There is a new post which debates the issues concerning this sub and once people search it, I'm sure now they will make a more educated decision based on everyone's here info whether good or bad.

Well this whole thread makes me sad. I am expecting my VK-12 in a couple days and now I'm not looking forward to it as much! Oh well, thing is I am coming up from a HTIB and, to be honest, have never really heard a "real" sub. That being said and from other reviews I think (and hope) that I will be happy with the VK-12 at least for a year or two...

I'm done with you guys, I got me a good sub and I'm happy. There is a new post which debates the issues concerning this sub and once people search it, I'm sure now they will make a more educated decision based on everyone's here info whether good or bad.

How do you know your happy, if you haven't heard it yet?

Wow did you seriously just say that? Women tend to have more acute hearing then men by the way.

Ya think? Especially if they think you are up to no good. I swear I had a gal once who could hear yesterday! :p

Well this whole thread makes me sad. I am expecting my VK-12 in a couple days and now I'm not looking forward to it as much! Oh well, thing is I am coming up from a HTIB and, to be honest, have never really heard a "real" sub. That being said and from other reviews I think (and hope) that I will be happy with the VK-12 at least for a year or two...


Take all opinion with a grain of salt, your expectations could be entirely different then ours. I have owned BIC subs, I thought they filled my certain needs back then and $$$ wise it isnt bad but its still low $$$s.

I GAVE the BIC to a friend of mine, 2 years now and he still enjoys it in his system. Heck I gave my old Polk Sub to another friend and he too just loves it STILL.

Expectations are definitely different and people can enjoy many levels of sonic bliss. BOTH of those friends just can not get enough of my Custom HT room but they still go home and have fun with their system.

How do you know your happy, if you haven't heard it yet?


He did hear it long enough to know and it was not for him!

Why do people have a problem with him formulating an opinion faster then others. We all make decisions differently?

He did hear it long enough to know and it was not for him!

Why do people have a problem with him formulating an opinion faster then others. We all make decisions differently?


The Old Adage, Go BIG or Go Home, certainly applies to subs...

He did hear it long enough to know and it was not for him!

Why do people have a problem with him formulating an opinion faster then others. We all make decisions differently?

Because everyone is an expert. ;)

BdSouth, You will love this sub. If your coming from HTIB it will sound amazing. Your making me feel bad know. I didn't mean to hate on the Bic like that, I was just merely trying to say it was no HSU or SVS.

To all of you are mad at my post. I'm sorry I offended the sub, I honestly didn't mean it like that. I just thought it was more of a sub that it really was, mostly based on the Sound Distrbutor guy telling me it was like Klipsch reference.

I don't want any people upgrading from HTIB to doubt the validity of this sub as many reviews will tell you it is the Sheezy. Buy this sub man and you will be happy, trust me.

See what happened to me was that I already have that level of sub and I wanted an ugrade. So listening to the reviews and Sound Distributors, sort of gave me a false since of hope that this sub was somewhat better than the one I already had, but it was exactly the same. This is why I was so dissapointed.

Once your ready to move up you will understand. I would liken it to if you got the sub and it sounded just like your HTIB, you'd be pissed off. That's pretty much what happened to me. But it's all good I'm going to get what I wanted in the first place, and I'm sure you will get what you want. Actually I can almost guarantee once you hear the Bic it will blow away your expectations come from where you are now.

So there hopefully that makes all you bic owners feel better, and get off my case. But I'm sure it won't, someone will post again and again how you get what you pay for and you should have known better. I get it alright.

Thank you penn for trying to make these guys understand about me listening to it for 5 minutes. If you guys were to listen to a HSU or SVS(which I haven't, I'm sure as soon as you took it out the box and hook it up, you'd be like damn. Maybe I'm wrong HSU people or SVS people throw in your 2 cents.

When you first hooked up your HSU, SVS, AV123 sub, did you immediately know it was the sheezy.

The only thing I know is when I hooked up the RSW 12, it immediately showed pure power and raw talent, You new in beat of the drumstick this sub was the real deal.

5 minutes????

5 minutes????

I think that has been address...some brains make work faster then others I guess.

You could play it for 2 minutes and I will tell you its not for me at all ;)

Here we go again.:D

For those who haven't read it yet, this is an interesting write-up on a pair of HSU subs by Craigsub. It is appropriate reading for this thread.

http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=547

Mike, that link is for the Outlaw LFM-1 EX review.

Mike, that link is for the Outlaw LFM-1 EX review.

I'm well aware of that. The point is how Craig's opinion of those subs evolved over the time it took to setup, calibrate, and "dial in" the subs.

I'm well aware of that.

Oh, you said it was a pair of HSU subs.. I guess the Outlaws ARE HSU designs rebadged.

Good subs do evolve over time with in room tweaking but anyone that has experienced good clean bass can hear a crap sub in the first couple of minutes. People can also know what their impressions should be and therefore do not need to waste time tweaking something they initially hate anyways.

The point here is that the sub in this thread is not a HSU, Outlaw, SVS, etc caliber subs. Its a budget sub and with that comes a specific expectation.

IMO, you do not need hours to pick what you want if the initial sound is so drastically different then your expectations. To rag on the OP about 5 minutes being too short is kind of silly when the topic is discussing a budget sub.

We might as well argue that his room isnt treated or that he didnt buy the right subwoofer EQing system too. We should maybe suggest 3 BICs together would drastically improve the overall performance ;)

Oh, you said it was a pair of HSU subs.. I guess the Outlaws ARE HSU designs rebadged.



That is a misnomer on my part. I do have tendency to see Outlaws as HSU's.

We might as well argue that his room isnt treated or that he didnt buy the right subwoofer EQing system too. We should maybe suggest 3 BICs together would drastically improve the overall performance ;)


Do you want to invite Dr. Geddes over here? :D

He did hear it long enough to know and it was not for him!

Why do people have a problem with him formulating an opinion faster then others. We all make decisions differently?

No one has a problem with him disliking the sub. Its that he writes a review bashing the sub after spending only 5 minutes listening to it. Imagine if a critic watched only 5 minutes of a movie before writing a review.

I for one don't really believe his story. I think he ordered a Bic VK-12 and in the mean time he stumbled on to Craigsub's review. It seems to me he already had an MFW-15 picked out and possibly even ordered by the time his Bic VK-12 arrived. There is again absolutely nothing wrong with that, but to post multiple "reviews" all over AVS after 5 minutes is pretty ignorant.

That is a misnomer on my part. I do have tendency to see Outlaws as HSU's.

No worries, I actually forget that they are HSU so its a good reminder ;)

I for one don't really believe his story. I think he ordered a Bic VK-12 and in the mean time he stumbled on to Craigsub's review. It seems to me he already had an MFW-15 picked out and possibly even ordered by the time his Bic VK-12 arrived. There is again absolutely nothing wrong with that, but to post multiple "reviews" all over AVS after 5 minutes is pretty ignorant.

Ah, I get the point. Its the idea that this is some sort of "review" rather then just an opinion.

What the heck is an "intensive purpose"

;)

Funny I did not notice any klipsch subs ons craig subs list;)

There are a lot of excellent subs that aren't on his list, that doesn't mean they aren't as good as many that did. The RSW series are very good subwoofers for the time they were built, excellent even.

I may not be an expert, but I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night. :D

I just ordered a AV123 MWF-15 which weighs 120 shipped and has the 6th highest rating on his sub list. The H-100 which is suppose to be Vic little brother is rated for all intensive purposes last. of like 30 subs.



Your complaints about the VK-12, while somewhat valid, became absolutely worthless once I read that.

Intensive purposes?

For all intents and purposes is the correct phrase you are looking for ;)

He did hear it long enough to know and it was not for him!

Why do people have a problem with him formulating an opinion faster then others. We all make decisions differently?

Uh, I believe rickneuropa was referring to the MFW-15, not the BIC. Kind of obvious that he's heard the BIC, at least for 5 minutes.

If was unclear whether the OP has even heard the MFW-15; it's ordered, but not received, yet.

I just reread my original post and I don't understand what is wrong with it. I told the complete truth and all the facts that surrounded my purchase. You guys act like I lied about something.

I stated that it was entry level. It is

I stated that it doesn't sound like HSU SVS. It doesn't

I stated that Klipsch Synergy is better. It is.

I stated that it's boomy. It is.

I stated people lied about the quality. They Did

I praised it for being a good sub for someone coming from a HTIB. It is

So where did I go wrong. I think I went wrong by offending you guys who own this sub. Maybe I should have to your feelings and love for this sub into consideration, but I didn't think anyone would get emotional. I wasn't trying to offend anyone. I guarantee in the end that this post will be crucial in a lot of people truly understanding what this sub can and can't do. It will guide HTIB people in it's direction and those with similiar subs towards the SVS HSU. In my mind I have provided a great service to anyone looking to by entry level or mid level sub. This was a great debate.

The only thing that I wish is that you guys stop acting like it's so hard to tell a good sub from a mediocre one, when you first hear it. It's pretty easy to tell that the Xsub and the Bic sound just alike and are same level sub, when your right there switching sub cable from one to the other and adjusting volume and frequency, it's not rocket science. I'm no Grandpa, I can hear perfectly well and I'm sure if you were in the same situation you would be able to tell the diff in a matter of seconds.

I stumbled upon this thread looking for info about the Vk-12 as well.

BIC is an entry level sub for those that do not know anything about subs.
Could you possibly have a more elitist attitude? Not everyone that buys entry level equipment necessarily wants to. This may come as a total surprise to you, but not everyone has the same amount of disposable income they can drop on audio/video equipment. Would I love to own an f113? Sure. Is it in the budget? No. I guess I don't know anything about subs since I can't afford the upper echelon equipment.

I would even argue it would be very difficult to do a DIY sub that sounds better than the H-100 for under $230 in materials.

Some of the BIC lines are better values than others, but there's no denying they offer very good value at their price point.

Thank you penn for trying to make these guys understand about me listening to it for 5 minutes. If you guys were to listen to a HSU or SVS(which I haven't, I'm sure as soon as you took it out the box and hook it up, you'd be like damn. Maybe I'm wrong HSU people or SVS people throw in your 2 cents.

When you first hooked up your HSU, SVS, AV123 sub, did you immediately know it was the sheezy.

The only thing I know is when I hooked up the RSW 12, it immediately showed pure power and raw talent, You new in beat of the drumstick this sub was the real deal.

I have an SVS PB13 and was going to respond. But I have no idea what you just said.

I can tell you I knew right off the bat it wasn't cheesy. :p

Sounds like Evolvo has some evolving to do, he's like Splicer over the the F12 forum, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1126588&highlight=bic+vk+12 never anything good to say to or about anything. I went with the BIC F12, little brother to the VK12 and a couple of other BIC subs, I like it, does a great job for me but he tells me I'm worong and don't know what I'm talking about. I do have a buddy who got the VK12 and he is VERY happy with it. He did take a few more minutes to listen, move it, set it up, move it again and again, the 'subwoofer crawl' I think it's called. I've heard his and it is quite impressive for the $$ he paid. I've also heard a multi 6 figure system employing 2 Paradigm Signature Sub 25's and wow! But thats $15,000 worth of subs. He had a problem with his drywall falling down so he had to reinforce his whole room.
You get what you pay for.

While I can understand the massive criticism for OP, I for one think it's good to hear the other side of things.

I've ventured into the BIC threads a few times, and the way they rave about their purchases in there, I often wondered what they were comparing them to. Usually other subs are not mentioned - it's usually generic "before I got this"...

That can be misleading. For that alone, it's nice to have another perspective on it - malapropisms and all.

As for the 5 minute test, it's not much of a comparison, BUT... if he put it in the same spot as his old sub and there is a substantial difference, then it's not completely without merit. There are quite a few more things I would try at a minimum, but quite frankly when I ended up with an entry level sub for around $250 I knew there was something missing even not having heard a real sub simply based on the descriptions of others with real subs.

Not exactly a "reference quality" post due to his lack of testing, but for me at least it helped me to understand where BIC fits in the hierarchy.

I found someone selling two vk-12's for $199.00 a piece brand new with no waranty.I am upgrading from a sony htib thats about 11 years old and a KLH sub thats about the same age.I dont know if i should go for two of those or get the pa-120's with waranty for $258 each.I do not want to spend anymore than $250-$300 per sub.

Its a good thing he only listens to his subs for five minutes because that's just about how long the amps in the MFW-15 last.

I realize this thread is old, but since it has been resurrected I wanted to say this made me laugh out loud.

lol, the Original Poster is hilarious. Im surprised he spent so much time writing all that bullshit. :D

I found someone selling two vk-12's for $199.00 a piece brand new with no waranty.I am upgrading from a sony htib thats about 11 years old and a KLH sub thats about the same age.I dont know if i should go for two of those or get the pa-120's with waranty for $258 each.I do not want to spend anymore than $250-$300 per sub.

Rather than spending $300 each on 2 budget subs I'd highly recommend putting the full budget into a better sub. $600 will get you into SVS, ED, HSU, Outlaw and even Epik territory while the Sentinel is on sale.

Any of those will be a huge upgrade over the $200ish class subwoofers. They will dig deeper with more authority and just sound better, more defined in general.

Either way will be a big upgrade over where you're coming from but imo starting with a quality sub over 2 budget subs will benefit you more now and later.