Bic F-12 for $185
Bic V1220 for $200
or PA-120 for $230

Which one to buy? I have Polk monitor 50s and cs1. Looking for a sub and also an new receiver but sub first for now. Thanks.

From what I heard, most people would suggest the pa-120 which I believe is the new h100 but don't quote me. this sub has a lot of hype and crazed followers who swear by it. Trust me I know they came after me and almost killed me because I was hating on the sub.

haha evolvo from the other thread. I know what you mean. I used to have a bic h 100 and that thing was pure wash with music. HT it did a pretty decent job as an extremely low budget sub could do.

Your right man those entry level subs do sound awesome with movies compared to HTIB. I mean if you get one of these for movies you will love it if your coming from something cheap becuase it will rumble your house. But for music it's just kind of boomy, but then again if your coming from nothing or from HTIB you'll love it for music. You gotta start somewhere. Thanks though bro for agreeing with me. Finally someone who's willing to get off of their high horse and tell it how it is. Seriously though, if I were you I'd go with the Cadence. I haven't heard the h100 but heard the vk 12 and it was not better than my Cadence. The Xsub I have, has a more solid cabinet and you can tell my weight alone. The vk12 was the lightest subwoofer I've ever seen and this may contribute to it's boominess. But Cadence makes a good solid beast and I hear they updated their driver. I believe it's 299 on Ebay, but the h100 at its price maybe a better value.

how can pa-120 be the new h100? aren't they made by two different companies. I thought the bic f12 was the new h100. From what I've gathered people like the pa-120 and h100 but I was just wondering if I should go with the bic f12 instead since it's the new h100 for cheaper. I just couldn't find any trusted review on the f12 so I'm still looking for some more info before I jump. I mean if the f12 sounds as good as pa-120, I'd rather save myself 50 bucks and get the f12 instead.

how can pa-120 be the new h100? aren't they made by two different companies. I thought the bic f12 was the new h100. From what I've gathered people like the pa-120 and h100 but I was just wondering if I should go with the bic f12 instead since it's the new h100 for cheaper. I just couldn't find any trusted review on the f12 so I'm still looking for some more info before I jump. I mean if the f12 sounds as good as pa-120, I'd rather save myself 50 bucks and get the f12 instead.

The F12 is the updated H-100. The cheaper price I believe would be contributed to it not having he Piano Gloss top of the H-100. The other thing that changed is the color of the driver, which I heard was due to a disagreement with Klipsh due to using the same color driver-but I have no proof of that, anyway they changed the color. There is a an owners thread on the F12 in this forum with users comments and reviews. As far as pro reviews, it's doubtful you'll see any on it or any sub in this price range, they usually stick with more expensive products to review.

Thanks for the excellent info. Hopefully the sound quality didn't suffer from the price reduction. I don't mind about the cosmetic changes. Kinda wish others reduce cosmetic effects to keep price down.

I have the PA-120 and it sounds great with movies and music. You should look into the PA-120 thread. What size room is your room?

I have decided to go with the Bic F12 since it's 60 bucks cheaper than the Pa-120 and performs at about the same level as far as I know.

Has anyone bought this from the Twister Group or from Keenzo? I just want to know the chances of a DOA.

http://www.thetwistergroup.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=F12%20D45847&source=fr
http://www.keenzo.com/showproduct.asp?M=BIC-AMERICA&ID=3547770&ref=GB

Thank guys

Has anyone bought this from the Twister Group or from Keenzo? I just want to know the chances of a DOA.

http://www.thetwistergroup.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=F12%20D45847&source=fr
http://www.keenzo.com/showproduct.asp?M=BIC-AMERICA&ID=3547770&ref=GB

Thank guys


I doubt you would get a doa. Mine came delivered in it's factory box with a mailing address on it. No issues, they pack these things pretty good at the manufacturing facility.

Just make sure those retailers have a good exchange policy if you get a dead one from the factory...that's highly unlikely.

i second the PA120. i'm a concert DVD fan so i listen to music alot and i can tell you this sub is not boomy. i fact my previous sub which was a velodyne VX10 had much more boominess than the PA120. this sub just fills in the lowend very nicely with a smoothe mellow bass. but for movies it can definately rock!

I doubt you would get a doa. Mine came delivered in it's factory box with a mailing address on it. No issues, they pack these things pretty good at the manufacturing facility.

Just make sure those retailers have a good exchange policy if you get a dead one from the factory...that's highly unlikely.

What do you think about shipping damage. I know it's hard to predict, but for some of you that have bought subs online...this place ships with UPS...are the chances high for damage?

I doubt it with a subwoofer. UPS tends to damage thin, or more flatter boxes.

This thing is a big rectangle and is awkward for them to move around. It has handles on the box, and I would think given the weight of it, whoever moves it is going to use those handles.

Thanks a lot. You've mostly appeased my worries!

hey guys, just a quick question...

given that i am still in school and have 0 time to set up any speakers (i have the receiver, but am waiting to buy speakers), what would be the fastest way to know if a subwoofer works without hooking it up to a receiver? I might have to jump on this sub as it the best deal i can find for something that big, but want to make sure it works when i get it instead of waiting ~ 2 months with it in the box only to be surprised that it doesn't, and is no longer returnable.

would the audio-out on the back of the tv work...i mean, just for the low frequencies obviously. like maybe i can connect one of the r/l rca cables to the back of the tv and that same one to the back of the sub? i don't currently have any coaxial cable in my house...

thanks

You can probably hook it up to your pc and use it as a high end pc sub in the mean time. I think all you need is a 3.5mm to rca cable something like this (http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-F8V235-12-12-Foot-Audio-Cable/dp/B000067RBT/ref=pd_cp_e_1?pf_rd_p=413863501&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0016LFN2C&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=00Z08WBJVF1B923VSSY2) and connect that to the center/sub jack on your sound card. I haven't tried it myself but I believe it should work.

hey guys, just a quick question...

given that i am still in school and have 0 time to set up any speakers (i have the receiver, but am waiting to buy speakers), what would be the fastes way to know if a subwoofer works without hooking it up to a receiver? I might have to jump on this sub as it the best deal i can find for something that big, but want to make sure it works when i get it instead of waiting ~ 2 months with it in the box only to be surprised that it doesn't, and is no longer returnable.

would the audio-out on the back of the tv work...i mean, just for the low frequencies obviously. like maybe i can connect one of the r/l rca cables to the back of the tv and that same one to the back of the sub? i don't currently have any coaxial cable in my house...

thanks

Yes since it's a powered sub the audio out that delivers a full range signal should work for testing from your TV or a dvd player for instance. It'll probably sound like crap as you won't be getting full range on it but for testing it'll work.

Yes since it's a powered sub the audio out that delivers a full range signal should work for testing from your TV or a dvd player for instance. It'll probably sound like crap as you won't be getting full range on it but for testing it'll work.

thanks that's all i need....to see if it works.

appreciate it

just pulled the trigger...we'll see when it gets here, hopefully it won't be busted up. also, can't wait for the duty!!!

Unless I change my mind, AGAIN, I will be putting order in for an F12 tomorrow. Since I started researching subwoofers a couple of weeks ago, I have bounced around from the F12, V1220, PA-120, T250, Boston HPS-12HO, and some others I can't remember right now. I even thought hard about an HSU STF-1 but, since every penny counts. I had to let it go for now. My budget is also torn by my interest in road cycling so not much funds to work with.
I recently pieced together an Onkyo 7.1 system off of Ebay. The speakers and sub are from an Onkyo HT-S790 HTIB and the reciever is refurb HT-R560. listening area is approximately 16' x 14' carpeted but it opens up into dining area that is about same size. I don't really have another sub to compare with the Onkyo since this is only one I've had. I did put together and install a Boston G51244 12" sub with sealed enclosure in my car a few months ago which I dearly love.
Now, the F12 will be used mostly for movies. My wife & I watch a lot of movies like Jurassic Park, Godzilla, Volcano, Blade. I especially love the star wars and LOTR movies.
Am I right in expecting the F12 to be a vast improvement over the Onkyo sub? I live in rural area with no neighbors close enough to be upset by home theater so we can play it as loud as we can stand it. And boy, this Onkyo will sure go loud!
I have been reading and re-reading thread on this forum as well as some others and, even though the SVS and HSU's would be wonderful, it all comes back to "I sure could that extra money for other things". So, here I am back at the F12.
Thanks to everyone on this forum for sharing the info.
Steve

Unless I change my mind, AGAIN, I will be putting order in for an F12 tomorrow. Since I started researching subwoofers a couple of weeks ago, I have bounced around from the F12, V1220, PA-120, T250, Boston HPS-12HO, and some others I can't remember right now. I even thought hard about an HSU STF-1 but, since every penny counts. I had to let it go for now. My budget is also torn by my interest in road cycling so not much funds to work with.
I recently pieced together an Onkyo 7.1 system off of Ebay. The speakers and sub are from an Onkyo HT-S790 HTIB and the reciever is refurb HT-R560. listening area is approximately 16' x 14' carpeted but it opens up into dining area that is about same size. I don't really have another sub to compare with the Onkyo since this is only one I've had. I did put together and install a Boston G51244 12" sub with sealed enclosure in my car a few months ago which I dearly love.
Now, the F12 will be used mostly for movies. My wife & I watch a lot of movies like Jurassic Park, Godzilla, Volcano, Blade. I especially love the star wars and LOTR movies.
Am I right in expecting the F12 to be a vast improvement over the Onkyo sub? I live in rural area with no neighbors close enough to be upset by home theater so we can play it as loud as we can stand it. And boy, this Onkyo will sure go loud!
I have been reading and re-reading thread on this forum as well as some others and, even though the SVS and HSU's would be wonderful, it all comes back to "I sure could that extra money for other things". So, here I am back at the F12.
Thanks to everyone on this forum for sharing the info.
Steve

I think you'll be very impressed with the difference between your existing subwoofer and an F12. It's not alot of money to add alot of kick to your movies and you can always add a second F12 down the road just to make things even more complete. The subwoofer is probably the most important part of a speaker system and I think it's worth spending a bit extra on. Go for the F12 if you have the urge...you'll be happy you did.

Thank you, hopefully I will complete transaction later today. Really looking forward to trying one of these out.

My F12 has just been ordered. $181.55 shipped. Maybe the wait will not be too bad.

My F12 has just been ordered. $181.55 shipped. Maybe the wait will not be too bad.

Where did you get it from? I see today amazon bumped it up to $349...:eek:

you should get the pa-120. I was in the same position. You can get the pa-120 for $210 shipped by calling in.

I took the pa because it weighs more and looks ALOT better with the piano finish. it also has more/better internal bracing.

Where did you get it from? I see today amazon bumped it up to $349...:eek:

beach audio has it for $190. I would rather pay $20 more and get the pa-120 though.

Where did you get it from? I see today amazon bumped it up to $349...:eek:

I bought it from Provantage but I have since heard that they are out. I thought I had seen a new one on Ebay a week or so ago.

Where did you get it from? I see today amazon bumped it up to $349...:eek:


I just checked Ebay and a seller called "Twisted Sister" shows to have 8 in stock for $168.99 plus shipping.

I just checked Ebay and a seller called "Twisted Sister" shows to have 8 in stock for $168.99 plus shipping.

I shot off an email to the website, the person (Danielle) stated their inventory is not stating correct stock. Both the store and Ebay store have been sold out since Thursday.

Hope no one placed an order at either place.

I just checked Ebay and a seller called "Twisted Sister" shows to have 8 in stock for $168.99 plus shipping.

I placed an order with them last Friday and was notified today that it'll be on back-order for 2-3 weeks...:(
I guess I'll cancel this order and try somewhere else.

I've been living with the PA-120 for about a year now, and it has been one of the most phenomenal purchases I've ever made.

It's fantastic for both music and movies, not boomy whatsoever - but that goes without saying that you'd have to calibrate it first.

This sub may be overkill (it is for me) - but it leaves room for growth in the future (new house!).

I've been living with the PA-120 for about a year now, and it has been one of the most phenomenal purchases I've ever made.

It's fantastic for both music and movies, not boomy whatsoever - but that goes without saying that you'd have to calibrate it first.

This sub may be overkill (it is for me) - but it leaves room for growth in the future (new house!).

+1

i have dual pa120's and love them..

I placed an order with them last Friday and was notified today that it'll be on back-order for 2-3 weeks...:(
I guess I'll cancel this order and try somewhere else.

Wouldn't want to wait for the F12 to come back in stock, so just ordered the PA-120 from ebay for $210.68 shipped, with the 8% rebate from bing.com. :D

I'm thinking about the PA 120 as well, but it doesn't have a BASH amp, that's what's holding me back at this point.

I'm thinking about the PA 120 as well, but it doesn't have a BASH amp, that's what's holding me back at this point.

I thought about that too, but according to this thread and some others, PA-120 does not sounds bad at all. I guess that's what matters to me~~ ;)

F12 is back in stock at Provantage. Great price too. :)

+1 on the pa-120 sub. Check out the official thread on the pa-120 to see my review of it when I got it this morning.

I've been abusing my PA-120 since Feb and it's held up great. I kinda wish I had another one but this is in my bedroom annnd I don't really have the space. I was watching The Incredible Hulk the other night on HBO and I had to turn the sub down via the receiver because my wall wouldn't stop shaking (subs on 5). I'm at home still (poor college student) so I have to respect the family. However during the day I play music and it sounds great on 60 ;) (Onkyo 606)

to ad my 2 cents worth, a few months ago I opted for the v1220. I have a small room 14X16 and did not want the bass directed in any way. I also read the low at 23hz and that sounded good. down sounded better than outward. high watts sounded like it could drive it just fine for my space.

I can not recall all the place I looked at, searched for reference. but at one place a reviewer stated the speaker quoted at 23hz low performed good through 18 hz. better than spec. with his pro instruments.
that helped in making my choice.

through all the reading and research I read that other downward subs were put on "hard styrofoam." I saw some were made with a piece in that position. I'm not sure if it was installed in that position just to protect the speaker or help direct the sound.

when it arrived it was larger than I thought. it now sits kitty corner for best sound. what I did was went to target and bought a kitchen cutting board for about $15 that was the same dimensions as the box itself. if you already have the cutting board in your kitchen......you could lay it out and see just how much space it takes up.
http://www.target.com/Chefmate-Poly-Cutting-Board-White/dp/B000CSZNK2/sr=1-8/qid=1249506088/ref=sr_1_8/186-4865801-8836703?ie=UTF8&search-alias=tgt-index&frombrowse=0&index=target&rh=k%3Acutting%20board&page=1

I am very pleased with the output and quality.....clean, crisp....no boom.
I think I'm turned down to about 3 1/2 and might go lower still.