Just thought I'd share this info. Winegard has a new product called the Wingman for their Sensar series of antennas. Supposed to increase the signal on UHF band for High Def. This attaches to your Sensar antenna. I've got a Sensar in my attic and I'm going to give it a try.

http://www.winegard.com/images/h_wingman.jpg

http://www.winegard.com/wingman/index.php

It has a positive review here with test data...
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/22423030.cfm

It's a dandy idea for those who already have the GS-1100/2200 and who are right on the edge of capturing stable UHF signals. Advice for those who don't have a Sensar: Get a Winegard HD-7694 instead. It will smoke the Sensar for roughly the same money as a GS-1100 plus a Wingman, particularly on UHF.

How does smarty-pants know this? Finding engineering specs on a 7694 is easy. Try nailing down the same numbers on a Sensar. Good luck, because W-G doesn't publish them. That alone speaks volumes about its performance.

(OK, I see the guy's point at the RV site: A Sensar/Wingman might well be quite practical in that niche. Otherwise, no.)

It's a dandy idea for those who already have the GS-1100/2200 and who are right on the edge of capturing stable UHF signals. Advice for those who don't have a Sensar: Get a Winegard HD-7694 instead. It will smoke the Sensar for roughly the same money as a GS-1100 plus a Wingman, particularly on UHF.

How does smarty-pants know this? Finding engineering specs on a 7694 is easy. Try nailing down the same numbers on a Sensar. Good luck, because W-G doesn't publish them. That alone speaks volumes about its performance.

(OK, I see the guy's point at the RV site: A Sensar/Wingman might well be quite practical in that niche. Otherwise, no.)

Winegard is very open and pretty honest with their specs on what I call "real" antennas. They were forced to produce what I call "gimmick" antennas to compete and not loose that market.

And absolutely, why pay in the $50/60 range for those type of antenna for a fixed location when you can get a 7694P for the same price?

I keep repeating over and over, what are now sold as "compact" HD antennas were for years considered an RV TV antenna. They have no place in a location that install an attic or outdoor antenna.

That said I know I know they will work where someone needs just a little bit of help on many UHF signals. I still think the best indoor antenna for VHF are rabbit ears or a folded dipole in a window.

I like Winegard but beware of their website's "OTA antenna selector" recommendations. When I entered my address, Winegard's AS suggested only 3 antennas. The SS-3000, SS-1000 and GS-2200. None of which are really suitable for my location or needs. I almost ordered a GS-2200 until I emailed them and they recommended against it. I am 5-16 miles from Baltimore stations and 28-30 miles from DC stations. Winegard recommended a yagi-style antenna and rotor but I didn't want a rotor so I considered the HD-1080 but bought a cheaper, higher gain DB4 instead. I think I made a good choice but haven't received the DB4 yet to test.

BTW, why does Antennaweb say that I need a yellow/red antenna to receive local Baltimore stations that I pick up with an old RS single-bowtie in a SE facing window when Baltimore towers are NE? TVFool shows my Baltimore stations as green and yellow, which I find much more credible.

I like Winegard but beware of their website's "OTA antenna selector" recommendations. When I entered my address, Winegard's AS suggested only 3 antennas. The SS-3000, SS-1000 and GS-2200. None of which are really suitable for my location or needs. I almost ordered a GS-2200 until I emailed them and they recommended against it. I am 5-16 miles from Baltimore stations and 28-30 miles from DC stations. Winegard recommended a yagi-style antenna and rotor but I didn't want a rotor so I considered the HD-1080 but bought a cheaper, higher gain DB4 instead. I think I made a good choice but haven't received the DB4 yet to test.

BTW, why does Antennaweb say that I need a yellow/red antenna to receive local Baltimore stations that I pick up with an old RS single-bowtie in a SE facing window when Baltimore towers are NE? TVFool shows my Baltimore stations as green and yellow, which I find much more credible.

I have noticed that about the antenna selector. I think it's fueled by homeowner associations, etc, in the small good enough antenna that costs more than what I call a real antenna.

However, if you call or email them, as you found, they give very good information. The HD-1080 is about $10 less than a DB4 at solidsignal.com
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=HD-1080

However that doesn't mean it's the best antenna.

I think you are going to find out a problem that is arising all over the country. Pre Transition, many most digital stations were all on UHF. Post Transition, many are moving to VHF.

You DB4 antenna is not good at all at VHF unless you are within 5 to 10 miles of a station. It "may" work on the Baltimore stations. For example WBAL your NBC out of Baltimore is moving back to channel 11 after June 12.

In Washington WUSA and WJLA are moving back to their VHF channels after June 12. And your DB4 most likely will not work for the Washington VHF channels.

A lot of other factors. Are you in a valley? what is the angle between most of the DC vs Baltimore stations.

I know you already ordered a DB4, but it's not to late now to see what would really be your best solution after June 12. They just are not informing the public of this problem that they need a VHF/UHF antenna in most locations. There is also the perception if you don't know any difference by probably hanging out here or other forums that many stations that were VHF analog, UHF digital now after June will be back on VHF.

Hence, you are right antennaweb.org is not very good. One would think with the money and companies behind that site it would be top notch, it's NOT!

TVFool.com run by a volunteer is 10 times better as you found. The guy that runs it has his own thread here and is very active.

From this point we have two choices. In a way we are trolling on someone else's topic talking here, though I think the main conversation of this thread is over.

You can probably get better advice in your home town thread.
Baltimore/DC thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793124&page=281
Is a link to the most current page of posts. It is probably a good idea to read the last 10 pages of posts and you learn most of what you need.

But still then post there with an image from TVFool of your Pre and Post Transition plots. It won't show your exact address, name, etc.

But it will show everyone what your view of the local stations are like.

I skimmed the last page and just on there were many good ideas.

I will be glad to go over there and throw in my 2 cents. I recognize some of the locals there from them posting in some of the nationwide threads, so there are so smart people in your home thread.

You may find you need a combo antenna with VHF and UHF. You might want to combine two antenna not to need a rotor.

From what I saw you would be best to start this over in that thread I listed above and upload your images or Pre and Post Transition to your post.

fred_pohl,

The DB-4 or Winegard 1080 are too weak on VHF for your situation.(Especially for 7 & 9 out of DC) The Channel Master 2016 is the least antenna you can get by with. The Winegard 7694 suggested by Don M is also an excellent choice. You are so close to Baltimore that you may get by with the antenna pointed toward DC and pick up Baltimore from the back of the antenna.

BTW, why does Antennaweb say that I need a yellow/red antenna to receive local Baltimore stations... TVFool shows my Baltimore stations as green and yellow, which I find much more credible.

Apples and oranges, Fred. In order of strongest to weakest signal, AntennaWeb classifications are yellow, green, light green, red, blue, violet and sometimes pink; TVFool is green, yellow, red and purple. As a very rough guide: AW's yellow through green correspond to TVF's green; AW red falls between TVF green and yellow; AW blue and violet are TVF yellow shading to red; and AW pink is TVF red. AW doesn't report stations that fall in TVF's purple range at all, but please note TVFool's suggestion that most people won't get such weak stations without resorting to "extreme" (read: very costly) measures.

Many of us find TVFool "more credible" as well. While not perfect, it's much more precise.

The furthest station away from me is 26 miles and they are within 129-132 azmuth. All the stations, except for two, dropped analog and xmit in digital only. The stations I'm having problems with are the ones my Dish 811 can't lock onto and the picture comes and goes, the tuner in this is not very sensitive. My Samsung DTB-H260F on my Plasma is able to lock on but some times pixellation occurs. I'm hoping adding the Wingman to the Sensar GS-2000 in my attic will be enough to correct this.

I could subscribe to the locals through satellite but I don't want to give them any more money than I have to. If this doesn't quite do it I'll probably give the Winegard HD-7694 a try.

fred_pohl,

The DB-4 or Winegard 1080 are too weak on VHF for your situation.(Especially for 7 & 9 out of DC) The Channel Master 2016 is the least antenna you can get by with. The Winegard 7694 suggested by Don M is also an excellent choice. You are so close to Baltimore that you may get by with the antenna pointed toward DC and pick up Baltimore from the back of the antenna.

From reading threads and people experimenting locally, I find the Winegard HD-1080 and the CM 2016 are only good for someone that gets VHF on rabbit ears but it's touchy, but has bigger problems on UHF.

Then by putting either above antenna outside it normally gives the VHF enough signal and both of them have some real gain at UHF for harder to get signals. The HD-1080 seems to work good in town or near towers in many directions, where an inside antenna gets the signals but you have to adjust it or it's touchy. The HD-1080 is not as directional at the CM2016.

But the Winegard 7694P is in the next class of antennas, a leap above either the 1080 or 2016, but more directional, hence back to the rotor.

A 7694P "might and a big might" get the closer stations while pointed to the distant stations, but it's a LONG way from a certainty. Why when he called Winegard, their safest happy customer answer was a rotor.

I should have added this earlier, better late than never....

Piggie, Digital Rules & Don_M,

Thanks to all of you for the great info and help. I apologize for not replying to you individually but I don't want to totally hijack this Sensar Wingman thread. In short, what I hope to accomplish with the DB4 is this: Aim it at DC (SW) to receive the UHF channels and hopefully get the Balt UHF (NE) from the backside. For VHF, I hope to get WBAL (11 post transition) but assume that I will need a separate VHF antenna to get 7 & 9 from DC. I assumed that the 7694 and CM2016 would be too directional for this scenerio due to their high F/B ratios.

That said, what do you guys think of my nooby plan? If I add a VHF antenna, will a passive antenna VHF/UHF antenna coupler work okay or should I use a pre-amp like the CM7777? I plan to feed 2 TVs with a RG6 run of 50' to splitter and 20' to each TV. Can you recommend a small, inexpensive VHF antenna to use with the DB4? TIA.

A 7694P "might and a big might" get the closer stations while pointed to the distant stations, but it's a LONG way from a certainty.Fred seemed to be looking for a small antenna solution, so that is why I recommended trying the 2016 or 7694. That is why I said it "may" work.:)

I tried myself, & get all but 2 of the Baltimore channels here with my 91-XG antenna pointed 180 degrees opposite of Baltimore.(40 miles out)The 91-XG has a much higher front to back ratio than the CM2016 or Winegard 7694. Even the best antennas have somewhat of a weakness @ 180 degrees with a moderately strong signal.

That said, what do you guys think of my nooby plan? ...

See private message.

Piggie, Digital Rules & Don_M,

Thanks to all of you for the great info and help. I apologize for not replying to you individually but I don't want to totally hijack this Sensar Wingman thread. In short, what I hope to accomplish with the DB4 is this: Aim it at DC (SW) to receive the UHF channels and hopefully get the Balt UHF (NE) from the backside. For VHF, I hope to get WBAL (11 post transition) but assume that I will need a separate VHF antenna to get 7 & 9 from DC. I assumed that the 7694 and CM2016 would be too directional for this scenerio due to their high F/B ratios.

That said, what do you guys think of my nooby plan? If I add a VHF antenna, will a passive antenna VHF/UHF antenna coupler work okay or should I use a pre-amp like the CM7777? I plan to feed 2 TVs with a RG6 run of 50' to splitter and 20' to each TV. Can you recommend a small, inexpensive VHF antenna to use with the DB4? TIA.

One answer is easy. The Pico Macom UVSJ is the best I have found and it's $9 shipped. It will combine U and V antenna with very little loss (0.5db claimed). The question in your plans is depending on how strong or weak the DC stations are will determine if you need a little VHF or big VHF. Either a little or big VHF will pick up both DC and Balt at one setting.

If you go to TVFool.com and grab your post transition plot and post or attach it here it would help. Plus I think you will graphically see one antenna won't do your VHF, well without a rotor. (then again without that plot any wild combination can't be contrived.

One answer is easy. The Pico Macom UVSJ is the best I have found and it's $9 shipped. It will combine U and V antenna with very little loss (0.5db claimed). The question in your plans is depending on how strong or weak the DC stations are will determine if you need a little VHF or big VHF. Either a little or big VHF will pick up both DC and Balt at one setting.

If you go to TVFool.com and grab your post transition plot and post or attach it here it would help. Plus I think you will graphically see one antenna won't do your VHF, well without a rotor. (then again without that plot any wild combination can't be contrived.

Thanks, Piggie. I'll get that Pico Macom UVJS if and when I need it. For now, all of my stations are UHF and I think I'll wait until PT before adding a VHF antenna. Hopefully I won't even need it. I'm not even sure if I want those 2 VHF DC stations enough to justify the trouble. Without them, I'll still get ABC and CBS from Baltimore.

I received my DB4 a few days ago and tested it indoors where it performed a little better than my homemade 2 bay and a little better still than a RS single bowtie but still only 10 digital channels. I next mounted it outside on my deck railing and picked up another 10 dig-channels (from DC). A few channels have problems but I haven't even tweaked the antenna aiming yet. I'm pleased so far. Here is my TVFool PT plot:

136242

http://www.tvfool.com/modeling/tmp/1f319c356e/Radar-Digital2.png

Thanks again,

Fred

Fred seemed to be looking for a small antenna solution, so that is why I recommended trying the 2016 or 7694. That is why I said it "may" work.:)

You were correct. I am only interested in relatively small antennas and although ultimately I may have no choice, not very keen on a 2 antenna solution. The CM2016 may well be my best small, single antenna solution but I ordered the DB4 before realizing how poor it's gain is for 7-13. I wanted a DB2 or CM4220 for the wide beamwidth and low F/B ratio but SolidSignal talked me into the DB4 for it's higher gain. So far the DB4 is working very well for UHF but I'll have to wait until PT to see how it copes with 13 (Balt) and 7/9 (DC).

I plan to add some 36" reflector rods to the DB4 but any VHF-Hi benefit remains to be seen.

So far the DB4 is working very well for UHF but I'll have to wait until PT to see how it copes with 13 (Balt) and 7/9 (DC)I'm most concerned with WBAL-DT 11. They will only be running 5 kw, post transition. They will most certainly lose many viewers. I hope I'm not one of them.:(

I'm most concerned with WBAL-DT 11. They will only be running 5 kw, post transition. They will most certainly lose many viewers. I hope I'm not one of them.:(

5kw? I have heard CB stations running more than that.
They are obviously relying on cable and the "must carry" rules to get an audience.

I'm most concerned with WBAL-DT 11. They will only be running 5 kw, post transition. They will most certainly lose many viewers. I hope I'm not one of them.:(

I don't know why I typed '13' instead of '11'. It's bad enough that WBAL is changing from 59 to 11 but cutting power to only 5kw really sucks.

5kw? I have heard CB stations running more than that.
They are obviously relying on cable and the "must carry" rules to get an audience.

WNBW runs 4.9KW and they are directional, giving me 860 W ERP (0.86KW) on my radial from their tower.
AT 37 miles from the tower it's a challenge even though I stacked a pair of YA-1713s.

Yeah, I have built 160M amps that came close to that PEP, not that I should say I ever did that! lol.