I feel like a deer in the headlights since I found this forum....

Background: Oct 2008 I started the basement built out including the Home Theater Room.... "Screen, projector and some speakers"....... how tough can it be right? Around mid Nov I decided to research 'screen size to seating distance'.. just so i could see what size screen i could fit in the room.

Thats when I found the AVSFORUM.. and discovered a world of isolation, flanking, absorbtion, risc clips, Green Glue, 2.35, 16:9, GOM, Grafik eye, reflection points, nulls, AT screens, butt shakers and bass traps.
Since then NOTHING signifigant has happend in that basement (the HT is my motivation).

Fortunatly with the discovery of this forum, I also found a wealth of information in an enviornment that "encourages" obsessive compulsive behavior on the subject of Home Theaters.

I spent the last couple of months with more than an occasional interest in alot of the builds happening on here, reading many from start to finish. Hopefully, I have managed to educate myself now to the point that I can ask educated questions. I would appreciate any feedback on my plans for moving forward (which involves moving backwards a little i think).

Below is a layout of my basement, i currently have an area that will be approx 16'8" by 18'8" with 9' ceiling dedicated to the theatre.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/basement.jpg
Here's a pick of the current status. (Notice mandatory single chair and masking tape screen.. one of the many things learned at the AVS site already)
before finding this forum i thought i was about ready for wiring..
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC02359.jpg

As mentioned I now feel I need to redo some of what i have done, my current plan is to take the sawzall to the current soffit and remove it.. i want to pay some attention to sound isolation and my "New" plan includes at least a drywall, GG, drywall room envelope . (possibly even risc and Channel on the ceiling. by removing the current soffit and rebuilding inside the "Room Box" i believe i can reduce some of the flanking sounds, and use the bottom of the soffit for additional bass trap. I'm going to build another wall along the stairwell side to help reduce sound transferance and double the wall at the entry. I also plan on taking an area from the "Storage" area placing a 3' x 7' area for speaker placement behind an AT screen.

Here is an overview of my revised plan
6-8 seats, 2 rows at 11' and 17'
120-140" 2.35 AT screen
equip rack in side wall (please disregard color scheme at this time)
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/Sketchupoption1.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/Theatreoption1.jpg
I am now planning to add the room behind the screen wall for the speakers
I know the speaker chamber behind the screen isnt the ideal size, conceptually i think it adds to the room from a acoustical standpoint giving me a room that is 21'6" deep in esence, but i feel symmetry and the concrete wall limits me to only about 7' wide.. one of my big questions is what does everyone think about having the L&R speakers only 7' apart and 25% inside the screen image? Do I need to rethink this? or will this work?

Any and all other suggestions/questions are more than welcome...i feel i need to nail down at least the basic room, so i can get the the point of running the elec and wiring..... I am a confident-100% DIYer but i recongize when I may be over my head..... SO HERE I AM.
Brad

Brad;
Good luck and I applaud your willingness to tear down what you've down so far.
I was 3 years+ into my basement on/off project before I "found" avsforum.

You'll get advice based on experience here.

One Q - when I looked at your plans the craft room is missing.....:rolleyes:
Based on your thread title I was honestly interested in what you did on hers.

Don't let your wife know that I actually did build mine one as "trade-off" for my HT and all it's stuff.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_FqTNmgNQHz8/SSPsHg3QA_I/AAAAAAAACgs/jcIxxCDw5ds/s400/IMG_9188.JPG

Hello and welcome!

It is always nice to see another Hoosier join the fray. Us "land lubbers" are far outnumbered by those easties and westies living on the coasts. Your story is somewhat like mine, however I stumbled on this site doing research for a home theater before that fist nail was struck and it has been a maddening journey ever since.

I'll be watching your thread with interest, especially as a fellow Hoosier on his own meandering journey on his way to building a home theater.

Regards,

RTROSE

Nice start to your thread and build. As far as you speaker placement I think you will be ok with the 7' especially if you go with the 120" might be pushing it a little if you go with the 140" though not by much, you can slightly toe your speakers out to make up for it. Over in the 2:35 section their was some discussion about this a while back in paticular when it came to masking. I believe CAVX had decided to bring his speakers in towards the center so that the speakers wouldn't be blocked by masking which he was thinking of adding later on and wasn't sure if it would be AT or not. I kind of did the same thing and I am very pleased with the result.

Now let me throw one more thing at you which you didn't mention above about being introduced to when you came to AVS. Infinite Baffle, that area which your building for speakers and the space behind it, really lends itself to an infinite baffle set up. Check out Cathan's build to see how he's doing his. Good luck.

Brad;
Good luck and I applaud your willingness to tear down what you've down so far.
I was 3 years+ into my basement on/off project before I "found" avsforum.

You'll get advice based on experience here.

One Q - when I looked at your plans the craft room is missing.....:rolleyes:
Based on your thread title I was honestly interested in what you did on hers.

Don't let your wife know that I actually did build mine one as "trade-off" for my HT and all it's stuff.



Mike;
Actually, the area designated as storage really will be partioned off (some day) to include a craft room. The thread title originated from my responses to the wife when she asks me what i have been doing "DOWN THERE". I will change the thread title after the theatre picks a name for its self.

However, as of today, and thanks to the suggestions received, the Planning and Zonning commision has officially annexed additional footage from the Storage/Craft community to be put into service for an IB Sub. Im not sure if this announcement will receive a warm welcome from the opposition. :D

By the way, your thread on the 130" curved screen was actually one of the concepts i had previously book marked to be incorporated in to the theatre.

Hello and welcome!

It is always nice to see another Hoosier join the fray. Us "land lubbers" are far outnumbered by those easties and westies living on the coasts. Your story is somewhat like mine, however I stumbled on this site doing research for a home theater before that fist nail was struck and it has been a maddening journey ever since.

I'll be watching your thread with interest, especially as a fellow Hoosier on his own meandering journey on his way to building a home theater.

Regards,

RTROSE


RTROSE;

Howdy neighbor... "Meandering Journey".. great description! That is exactly how i am starting to view this endevour -- as more of a journey than a project. The amount of information/details to consider as a DIY'er can be humbling, particularly on the AV side (im more of a brick and mortor guy), right now I'm trying to break it all down to manageable pieces to "Ponder".

Stop back and keep on eye on me.. I hope to avoid adding as few "What I'd do different nextime" posts as possible.

Nice start to your thread and build. As far as you speaker placement I think you will be ok with the 7' especially if you go with the 120" might be pushing it a little if you go with the 140" though not by much, you can slightly toe your speakers out to make up for it. Over in the 2:35 section their was some discussion about this a while back in paticular when it came to masking. I believe CAVX had decided to bring his speakers in towards the center so that the speakers wouldn't be blocked by masking which he was thinking of adding later on and wasn't sure if it would be AT or not. I kind of did the same thing and I am very pleased with the result.

Now let me throw one more thing at you which you didn't mention above about being introduced to when you came to AVS. Infinite Baffle, that area which your building for speakers and the space behind it, really lends itself to an infinite baffle set up. Check out Cathan's build to see how he's doing his. Good luck.

oman321;

Thanks for the feedback on the speaker placement.. its a relief knowing i can continue that direction. I think that placement fits my overall Plan / Vision better than building out for the speakers in the front corners.

IB Sub...ummmmmm ..... YEA BABY!!! i read Cathan's thread per your recomendation. Your right I had not considered the infinate baffle previously, I definately get the concept / benefit, although some of the science - ie.. opposing placement of the drivers cancelling the mechanical forces, still leaves me scratching my head, however, based on the post from Cathan when he tried it out, :eek: i gotta belive that this is a worthwhile addition. + this concept definately appeals to my bigger, badder, better thought process.

I will be posting an updated plan showing the additional IB Sub behind the current speaker chamber. Thanks again for the recomendation oman321.

Any other suggestions for general room layout are greatly appreciated.

Im heading down to spend a couple of hours on removing the current soffit.. should be fun....

Thanks again guys,

Brad

Hi Brad

Welcome to the madness. All the way to an isolated room with an IB sub. It'll be worth the effort.

Bryan

Hi Brad

Welcome to the madness. All the way to an isolated room with an IB sub. It'll be worth the effort.

Bryan

Bryan Thanks... the amount of information, details and like "Madness" on this forum fits my obsessive compulsive personality perfectly. :D

Well, the destruction is nearly complete... My plan to remove the soffits, shorten the first walls i framed, then add DC04 clips, was going to be more effort than it was worth to save a few 2x4..

After factoring in the price of DC04's, Risc clips, and channel, i decided to go with a true "Room In Room" instead. I have more of a comfort factor with lumber/framing and this approach seemed less "mysterious" to me than the other decoupling methods.

So I fired up the sawzall and went to work.. ( never realized how trigger happy i could get with a framing nailer until i had to cut the nails out 1 at a time)
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/lids022.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/lids018.jpg

The wife also helped me with the destruction last week:mad:
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/lids010.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/lids013.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/lids015.jpg

Replacement spoiler for the highlander = $750
Bottom 2 panels for an 18' x 8' garage door = $905
The wife never asking again why I'm tearing down a room I just built = Priceless


On the way now to rebuy more framing material, --Ding Ding-- ROUND 2:rolleyes:



Brad

My 11 year old already came down stairs looked around and said;
"Dad, you sure like to complicate things" ........... So I've already heard that more than once...but still open for other comments:rolleyes:

THE SECOND GO AROUND...........

Below is the revised Layout.. Subject to change at any time based on suggestions from people that know more than I do about theaters.

This will be a truely decoupled, Room in a Room, Box in a Box, nothing touching anywhere--Nada. Well.. it touches the concrete.

The soffits will actually be built as part of the ceiling structure
(their is a method to this madness) I hope a little more work upfront with the framing, one thing I'm somewhat confortable with, will make things eaiser in the long run.

The room and inside soffits will be skinned in 1/2" OSB, GG, DW, GG, DW.
OSB for Rigidity, surface to screw into, additional mass and 2nd dampening layer.

Special attention payed to the "aquarium" for sound containment.


New Layout
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir1.jpg

General concept
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir2.jpg

Round 2

Im giving up the opprotunity to have a cool entrance with Marquee etc..
I may lean the other way for effect and have a hidden door to access the equip room/theatre entrance... i felt the door on this side was causing me to try to squeeze to much and limiting my seating to 3 on the back row.

Now i will be able to put bass traps in both back corners have have plenty of access

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir3.jpg

Hauled out the last pile of theater and sawn off nails

Restocked with bigger supplies this time

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir4.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir5.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir6.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir7.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir8.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir9.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir10.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir11.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir12.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir13.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir14.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir15.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir16.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir17.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir18.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir19.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/rir20.jpg

I should have everything wrapped up framing by the end of this weekend.
Hvac by mid next week and drywally before next weekend

I would like to share one experience.. I spoke to John at the Soundproofing Company when i orderd the GG and it was actually an enjoyable experience from a service standpoint.... it was finally nice to find someone that actually wanted to talk about theaters .... My kids, wife, family, friends and strangers in the streets now all roll thier eyes if i even mention the subject.

I would appreciate a Sanity check from you guys regarding a couple of things--

General layout:

I realize the rear row is ideally too close to the back wall and the 120" CIH screen size to seating distance for the front row is pushing it at 1.1, But it seems I see similar ratios in quite a few of the builds.. i m kinda stuck with the space i have to work with and i always sit towars the front in the big theaters.... comments are appreciated....


My wiring plan:

At this time I plan on feed all of my wiring .. speaker, power etc from the equip room to the soffit.. i will not put any elec boxes in the walls,, everything will run down inside my columns to outlets in columns and down the rear columns into the riser, behind the screen wall to the stage etc.. for additional recepticle locations

I basically plan to route all the wiring through the soffits where it needs to go.
If i put several cans around the parameter in the soffit as shown in general layout .. do you all think this is enough light? without cans in the ceiling

for control i will just feed one line for an exposed IR receptor.. or through soffit to front stage wall

projector will be very close if not in rear soffit so the wiring for it will also go through the soffit..

I will make the bass traps like cartridges probably held up by little L brackets on each of the insides of the soffit that just fit between the lights and columns in the soffits so they can be removed when time to change or add cabeling etc..

speakers are currently planned to be hidden in columns

Does anyone see a reason i cant do this from a wiring standpoin?.. Am i missing something.... or anything? Maybe everything??:confused:

Other wise on to the drywall next week.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Code requires outlets in the walls less than 20" high every 12ft on a well extending more than 6'. That's the only wiring problem I see.

Thanks Mapitc0

I think i can still meet that code if i put outlets in the bottom of the columns
as shown in the wireframe below, since the columns should be considered part of the wall.

Here is a wireframe of my concept for approaching the wiring for everything, elec, speakers, projector ......

This view is looking up at the bottom of the soffit.

The bass traps would have frames and would be inset between the lights and columns. they could be removed in the future to access inside the soffit / wiring chase.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/soffit2.jpg
The framed soffit is 8" deep, and about 15" wide, so i could have 3" bass traps and still leave 5" for wiring chase or some combination there of.

This approach would let me really address the "Aquarium" sound leakage issues, since no lights or elec boxes would penetrate the outer shell of the room

I havent seen this done, so I feel i must be missing something.. ???????

Thanks Mapitc0
I havent seen this done, so I feel i must be missing something.. ???????
I am putting everything in my columns as well. The only penetration I have is the wires for the sconces these are small hole. Nice thread!
Jeff

Three weeks since my last ambitious post where i stated i was starting the drywall soon.
It takes the body a little while longer to heal now then a couple of years ago.

I walked around like the hunch back for a week after carrying this load down into the basement.. I havent seen the friend that helped me since then either, free beer doesnt go as far as it used to :rolleyes:
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris013.jpg

I did manage to get the majority of the framing completed. I still need to frame the second of the double walls at the the entrance.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris021.jpg
I finished getting the remaining ceiling joists completed in the main room and the OSB on the walls. walls are ready for the additional 2 layers of dwall with gg between each layer ... OSB,GG,DW,GG,DW
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris035.jpg
The ceiling ended up with approx 17.5" of air space between the HT ceiling and the bottom of the first floor.. I know they say that their is a point of diminishing returns past an R19 of insulation, but i am filling the entire air space, it is something along the lines of R47 total .. I could heat this room with a candle if needed. :o

I completed the double stud walls around the IB Chamber, but i still need to finish framing the joist system above it, then frame the manifold wall seperating the chamber from the theater.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris011.jpg

The chamber will be completely skinned inside with 3/4 MDF, GG, and 2 layers of Dwall with GG between.

Gotta keep these little fellers from disturbing the rest of the House.
4 - 18" FI IB3 Drivers .. Ordered today:D:D:D ...
Photo compliments of FI Audio.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/IB318_170x356_170x356.jpg

Also special thanks to the guys at the "Cult" especially Thomas W. and Chrisbee for their patience in answering my endless questions.

The front of the theater will get MDF 2' along the side walls and across the front instead of OSB.. I wanted to add a little more density behind the AT screen for the front walls. This shot shows where the MDF needs to go and the size relationship of the IB chamber to the room.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris022.jpg

On another note... I see alot of debate recently regarding the use of the spray insulations in builds, meaning the expandable open cell foams... and I have read comments where the sales guys for these products have reported that the spary foams are superior for sound isolation..

IMHO Please do your own research, before you spend that kind of money on this application, alot of info here on the forum from some very smart guys, if you search under Iceyene.
These foams do practically nothing for sound isolation.. in some cases they can be detremental to your isolation efforts because they can actually couple surfaces together..

remember the benefit of the fiberglass insulation comes from the transfer of kenitic energy as the sound waves cause the little fibers to vibrate...

Spray Foams are "Great" for insulation and probably the best solution in specific applications.. such as shown in the RIM joist in the picture below.. if you look closely directly above the Pink foam board you can see the sprayed insulation in the Rim joist.
Also the use of the extruded closed cell foams directly glued to the concrete wall (be sure to tape the seams with like a Tyvex tape) is probably also one of the Best know methods for insulating and providing a vapor barrier in a basement.

Both of these approaches will save $$ over the spray foams..
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris005-1.jpg

Dont get me wrong I love the Spray foams for insulation,, It was quite a decision for me to go with the foams in the rest of my house when i built it considering the additional cost.. but again it was the right product for the application.;) ... remember thats just my opinion...

As always comments, questions, suggestions and criticism is encouraged....

Stay tuned.. Same Bat time, Same Bat Channel...

Brad

It takes the body a little while longer to heal now then a couple of years ago.

I walked around like the hunch back for a week after carrying this load down into the basement.. I havent seen the friend that helped me since then either, free beer doesnt go as far as it used to :rolleyes:

Now that is funny! Unfortunately I totally get what you are laying down! Good stuff I like the look of the OSB for the first layer.

Jeff

Man, I have to commend you on the extra mile you are going for sound isolation. I have to admit I was too damn cheap to do all that. I might regret it when completely done, but I am hoping things wont be too horrible, but at this time it is wait and see. Sometimes I think, maybe I should have done DD and GG, but then I think of the added cost on hat channel and whisper clips and I know while I have the money, that I am just too cheap to spend it. shame on me, I know.

Brad,
Very well organized thread you have here. Pics do an excellent job of tying it all together too. I echo your comments about John at The Soundproofing Company--he and Ted both are a real help and enjoyable to talk to/bounce ideas off of. I am building a room within a room as well and using soffit around existing I-beam and HVAC ducts for wire chase so enjoy seeing how you are putting things together.
My back/body felt the same as yours after hauling 140 sheets of drywall downstairs--thought that gravity was supposed to help :rolleyes: Fortunately for me my 2x10 joists were only 16 feet long so could carry and wrangle into place over I-beam myself.
I will have a double stud wall with communicating doors too so looking forward to your build progress as mine is a slow crawl--a weekend of progress followed by 3 weeks of ?????
Thanks again for posting your build.
Greg
ps love the thread title :D

Now that is funny! Unfortunately I totally get what you are laying down! Good stuff I like the look of the OSB for the first layer.

Jeff

Jeff.. My Back seems Back now... The MIA friend showed up and brought the beer this time. :cool: so I finally got a little more done.

I likes the look of the OSB also.. lots of benefits to this I thought, ... second dampening layer, I can screw something in the wall anyhere + its the key to the Lateral resistance in the Room in a Room Structure.

Thanks again on the Track Saw Tip, The FED x Guy showed up with it this morning:D it already looks like a well used tool.

Man, I have to commend you on the extra mile you are going for sound isolation. I have to admit I was too damn cheap to do all that. I might regret it when completely done, but I am hoping things wont be too horrible, but at this time it is wait and see. Sometimes I think, maybe I should have done DD and GG, but then I think of the added cost on hat channel and whisper clips and I know while I have the money, that I am just too cheap to spend it. shame on me, I know.

Hey Smak,

I know what you mean, i wrestled with the Channel and Clips myself for along time before I started on the freestanding room. for me i felt the room was the best way to go.. one sheet of OSB is the approx cost of a DC04 clip and for me the comfort factor was much higher working with conventional framing methods.

Your room is looking great.....

Brad,
Very well organized thread you have here. Pics do an excellent job of tying it all together too. I echo your comments about John at The Soundproofing Company--he and Ted both are a real help and enjoyable to talk to/bounce ideas off of. I am building a room within a room as well and using soffit around existing I-beam and HVAC ducts for wire chase so enjoy seeing how you are putting things together.
My back/body felt the same as yours after hauling 140 sheets of drywall downstairs--thought that gravity was supposed to help :rolleyes: Fortunately for me my 2x10 joists were only 16 feet long so could carry and wrangle into place over I-beam myself.
I will have a double stud wall with communicating doors too so looking forward to your build progress as mine is a slow crawl--a weekend of progress followed by 3 weeks of ?????
Thanks again for posting your build.
Greg
ps love the thread title :D

Thanks Greg,
It does "Hurt" getting old.. I'm not sure which is affecting me more the Mental or the Physical aspect of it... Over the weekend my 9 year old made of point of mentioning "Hey dad do you know you got a bald spot" argggggh..

I know what you mean about
"a weekend of progress followed by 3 weeks of ?????"
I'm barely staying ahead of the curve with what I'm doing right now.. i study the forum for 3 hrs the night before and work a couple in the basement trying to apply what I pick up..



Anyway... I did get a few more things accomplished the last couple of days.

But first the pic of the new tool...
This track saw is the coolest thing for cutting up sheet goods.
It ripped through 8 sheets of 3/4 MDF faster and eaiser than anything i've had before..and right on the money..
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris038.jpg

I finished the joist system above the IB Chamber, and got the first layer of the 3/4 MDFup inside of it..
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris040.jpg
Now i need to build the manifold wall that seperates the IB from the Room.
and finish putting the MDF across the front of the screen wall.

I also got the first layer of 5/8 DW on the ceiling.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris043.jpg
I also got all the DW strips cut and ready to wrap the Beams so hopefully Saturday, ill finish the 2nd layer of DW and GG on the Lid and get the Lift returned on monday..

Brad.

Wow man that IB chamber looks awesome. Wish I could do the same, maybe for HT 2.0. I can try to do something with my mechanical room, but I can't seal the whole room off as my HVAC returns are built into the wall.

Keep it up your doing great.

Brad;
You've done great job, I never connected your IB cult thread and this until just now.

Wow man that IB chamber looks awesome. Wish I could do the same, maybe for HT 2.0. I can try to do something with my mechanical room, but I can't seal the whole room off as my HVAC returns are built into the wall.

Keep it up your doing great.

Yep, my IB backchamber is my basement utility/HVAC room, the IB backwave wave does transmit slightly into the main floor mudroom above the utility room, and then into the kitchen/family room.
It would be a PIA to try and contain that backwave, a very minor downside of IB.

Not bad, and only really when she's cranked at IB + reference levels, i.e., the EP2500 is running extra "hot".

Brad's solution is best for containment.

Wow man that IB chamber looks awesome. Wish I could do the same, maybe for HT 2.0. I can try to do something with my mechanical room, but I can't seal the whole room off as my HVAC returns are built into the wall.

Keep it up your doing great.


Oman321.. Thanks... if you woulnt have mentioned it (post 4)i never would have thought of it.. Now Im all giddy in anticipation, if its 1/4 of what people have said it is I know i will be estatic:eek:

I dont know if you have ever browsed the site.. but the "Cult of the Infinitely baffled" Appears to be the defacto source for IB info.

http://ibsubwoofers.proboards.com/index.cgi

Actually only a very few seem to contain the rear wave in a dedicated chamber,, what you describe seems to be what the majority do.. and the IB actually works out to be competitive $$ wise with the cost of the Higher end subs and especially more economical than a couple of subs.

My approach is just an extension of what is turning out to be a large / expensive science experiment in sound containment:D



Brad;
You've done great job, I never connected your IB cult thread and this until just now.

Thanks MT..

I've read your thread on there also... I cant believe the extreme you went to to get your IB to fit..



Brad's solution is best for containment.

I gotta give credit where it is due.. Had it not been for Oman321 directing me to it and Cathans detailed thread on his chamber build I dont think i would have even incorporated it let alone taken the approach I have..

I dont know but alot of people say you dont even need butt shakers because of the punch from the IB.... We shall see......:D

Thanks again guys

Brad

That's cool, just glad that I could add something to what is turning out to be a great build.

Good to know about what the majority does for the IB. I knew some folks used attic space, or open areas behind the setup for the wave, but more of what I have seen lately is a chamber. Since I used stud bays for HVAC returns I wasn't sure how this would affect the space used for the wave.

Definately something for me to consider for the future although I don't know if the Mrs. could handle it. :p It's now with a basic 12" JBL sub and she thinks I'm gonna bring down the house :D. Something like that will only happen when I finish the space and get a serious itch for an upgrade or divorce court.

Finished wrapping the inside and bottom of beams with first layer of DW then calked all the corners and seams in the first layer with "SILENSEAL"

Then popped open the first 5 gallon Pail of "GREEN GLUE", and loaded the "Speed Loader"

I'll say right up front, the GG and speed loader was eaiser to work with than I had anticipated.

Overall Id say that the GG has the consistancy of a thick paint (I had feared something along the lines of construction adhesive, and thought my forearms would get a work out just squeezing the dispenser) and the spead loader was hastle free... little effort needed to fill the tubes and dispense.

We applied the GG at the rate of 2 tubes and 1 beer per sheet. :D
Id say the GG only added about 5-7 Min per sheet for the application

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris008.jpg

Before applying the GG we would put the sheet on the lift then raise to test fit.. Figured this was eaiser than trying to trim anything after the GG was applied. Once the sheet was on the lift and the fit was verified we just stood on ladders/buckets to apply the GG.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris007.jpg
Then we just raised the panels up and screwed into place.
Ran the second Layer of DW the opposite direction from the first to make sure none of our seems overlapped.
you can see the Silenseal in the seams and corners on the first layer in the pic below.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris003.jpg
There is definately a reason to follow the instructions and make sure to stay back 2-3" from the edge when applying the GG. Too close the the edge and the GG will squeeze out and drip down.. and you really dont want to start getting this stuff everywhere..
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris017.jpg

An oversight on my part that caused a certain amont of aggravation hanging the second layer.... you really need to trim the thickness of dwall off the side of the first sheet.. the second layer is offset by the thickness on the side wall, so our second layer was nearly off of the joists on one side and we ended up having to put the screws in at angles to catch the joists.. no biggie really but like I said it just slowed the process down some because we couldnt use the Autogun. (Hope that explination makes sense)
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris001-1.jpg

Lastly the Clean up wasnt as bad as anticipated either.. took the loader apart after running about 10 loads of clean water through it, and tossed it in a bucket of water. The parts wiped right off about 1/2 later..
One comment for Ted if you read this... the wire brush supplied with the loader needs a longer handle :)
Note: the bucket of water used to rinse out the gun will have alot of tack too it.. i wouldnt dump it down any drains..:D

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris012.jpg

Overall.. if you were like me and are hesitating on the GG becasue of the "added hastle" factor, its really not that bad.
Here is the finished 2nd layer... (really looks like the finished first layer)
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris032.jpg

That was it for the weekend... :( The wife drug me outside Sunday for the yard work that has been severly neglected since the basement project started.

Next... On to the walls and the insides of the soffits.

Good stuff! Kind of what I thought as well going into it, especially the thickness part much thinner than I would have thought.

Miller Lite drinker, must be a good guy :)

Cheers
Jeff

Nice rundown, KNK. Thanks for sharing that.

As far as short term cleaning / storage, you don't dis-assemble the Speedload. Flush a few times and then leave (as assembled) full of water in a pail.

Thanks!

That was it for the weekend... :( The wife drug me outside Sunday for the yard work that has been severly neglected since the basement project started.

There's a world outside of the basement? :confused:

Looks great!

Dave

Lastly the Clean up wasnt as bad as anticipated either.. took the loader apart after running about 10 loads of clean water through it, and tossed it in a bucket of water. The parts wiped right off about 1/2 later..
One comment for Ted if you read this... the wire brush supplied with the loader needs a longer handle :)
Note: the bucket of water used to rinse out the gun will have alot of tack too it.. i wouldnt dump it down any drains..:D

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris012.jpg

A little late for you perhaps, but a quick tip for future users of the GG system, you don't need to clean the gun at the end of each day. Just load it with water and let it sit in your water bucket. I kept mine like that for weeks on end during the drywall process. It worked just as well on the last day as the first. In the end I just tossed the gun when I was done-done. For the $20 for the gun I more then got my value and didn't want to deal with the couple of hours of cleaning it would take ot get it to clean-like-new conditions.

I did have an opprotunity to put up a couple of more sheets of DW with GG in the IB chamber, and have one more comment on the GG application that may benefit someone..

Rather than pulling on the "Trigger" of the speed loader during the application, I found it much eaiser to apply a consistant bead of GG by just applying constant pressure to the plunger and keeping the loader moving, seemed to go faster and eliminated some of the initial "Blobbing" (word?) each time you pulled the trigger..




Miller Lite drinker, must be a good guy :)

Cheers
Jeff

Jeff, Is there any other kind of beer?:D

Unfortunately I have discovered a flaw in the "Work for Free Beer" program I had established for my buddies.. There is an inverse relationship in the ROI:rolleyes:

Nice rundown, KNK. Thanks for sharing that.

As far as short term cleaning / storage, you don't dis-assemble the Speedload. Flush a few times and then leave (as assembled) full of water in a pail.

Thanks!

Ted, I had read that in the instructions but wasn't sure about "Short term" wether it was 2-3 hrs, or overnight etc.... now i just flush, fill, and leave full of water in the pail..

There's a world outside of the basement? :confused:

Looks great!

Dave

Thanks Dave, I was white as a gost after spending the last straight couple months or so in the basement... I had barely noticed spring had come and now golf season is here.. I hope the basement time doesnt start taking too big a hit ;)

A little late for you perhaps, but a quick tip for future users of the GG system, you don't need to clean the gun at the end of each day. Just load it with water and let it sit in your water bucket. I kept mine like that for weeks on end during the drywall process. It worked just as well on the last day as the first. In the end I just tossed the gun when I was done-done. For the $20 for the gun I more then got my value and didn't want to deal with the couple of hours of cleaning it would take ot get it to clean-like-new conditions.

Michael, not too late at all.. I still have weeks of Dwall left, and knowing that i can avoid assy/diss assy of the loader after every use makes it eaiser to go down and just put up a sheet here and there.. seems ashamed to just toss the loader.. its such a nice/well designed tool, but i dont know what else you could use it for.. ummmm..


Thanks

Brad

Gotta love it when the guy in the Big Brown Truck pulls in your driveway
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris050.jpg

Look at the size of these puppies:eek: i was taken back a little

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC02618.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC02619.jpg

I feel like Ralphie with the Red Ryder. :D:D:D:D (one smiley for each speaker)

Those subs are gonna sound awesome..now get it done so I can here it all the way here in my house.:)

That woofer(x4) looks awesome, gonna be sweet.

Thought I'd ask since your in middle of it and it's fresh in your mind. I'm not planning to do it anytime soon but just wanted to know in case I ever do. You put OSB as your first layer and then your doing DD and GG, I think Michael just did DD and GG but is a certain amount of stiffness necessary in the HT room? Is this the reason for the OSB or was it more for sound isolation. I ask because I didn't do the DD & GG thing, I basically did single layer of rock.

Looking at some posts in the IB forum I think someone mentioned that the IB will flex your walls some and if it does you loosing a lot of the benifit of having the IB. Just curios as I haven't to much time to look into and I'm sure you have good reason for the OSB.

Those subs are gonna sound awesome..now get it done so I can here it all the way here in my house.:)

Dude... I can hardly wait... I had lost a little HT motivation doing the Dwall, now that the Woofers are here its balls to the wall again..;)

That woofer(x4) looks awesome, gonna be sweet.

Thought I'd ask since your in middle of it and it's fresh in your mind. I'm not planning to do it anytime soon but just wanted to know in case I ever do. You put OSB as your first layer and then your doing DD and GG, I think Michael just did DD and GG but is a certain amount of stiffness necessary in the HT room? Is this the reason for the OSB or was it more for sound isolation. I ask because I didn't do the DD & GG thing, I basically did single layer of rock.

Michael took a different path then I did for decoupling his room, by using Clips and channels. So the OSB wasnt necessary in his room, he could just go right to the DD and GG. "Michael ... feel free to chime in if you want to add on this one"

For me I was less comfortable with the DCO4, Risc clips and Channel. So I went with room in a room using a post and beam type construction..by doing this I needed to use the OSB to provide lateral shear to the "Free Standing BOX", and maintain a 1" gap between the entire room and the existing structure.

Think of it as a free standing building, I'm sure you've seen the OSB on the outside of houses after their framed, this is exactly the same thing, only the OSB is on the inside. This room could withstand windshear if it was standing outside by itself.

When i weighed the cost of doing staggered studs or paying $4 - $5 ea for clips (each clip being a comparable price to one sheet of OSB) and the price of the channel to decouple, I figured it was nearly a wash to take the path I did(and less hastle for me, no learning curve with conventional framing) Fortunately I had 9' ceilings to work with so it was a feasible alternative, still leaving 8' plus even with new joists below the floor joists.

Additionall benefits include:
GG between the OSB and First layer of Dwall adds a second dampening layer.
The OSB adds additional mass to the room.
The Room in a Room adds more airspace in the wall and ceiling cavities.
All of these benefit sound containment
+ I can screw anything, anywhere into the wall and not worry about needing to hit a stud.



Looking at some posts in the IB forum I think someone mentioned that the IB will flex your walls some and if it does you loosing a lot of the benifit of having the IB. Just curios as I haven't to much time to look into and I'm sure you have good reason for the OSB.

Their are basically 2 types of IB.. a line array, (like mtbdudex built) where all subs are basically in a line (you see the face of all the drivers) and the manifold type. (like Michael built) The benefit of the manifold type is that because the drivers are facing each other the mechanical forces are cancelled by the opposing driver.. so the manifold will not reak near the havoc with mechanical forces on your ceilings or walls that the line array will.. I have seen on the Cult where guys are talking about using steel plates to mount their drivers in line arrays because of the forces that 4 or so of the big drivers can exhort. When the wall/ceiling where the line array is mounted flexes, it can cancel part of the force of the driver, hence the loss of benefit, the more flex, the more loss.

I'm sure the rear wave from 4 of these drivers could do a decent job of pressurizing the chamber, but I really dont have any fear of it being able to flex the walls with 3/4" MDF and 2 layers of 5/8" Dwall ...

In your case where your talking about venting the rear wave into more of an open area I dont believe i would have any concern because your not trying to contain the rear wave. and I'm sure that all the people on the Cult who vent into their attics or floor spaces do not have OSB or DD in their living rooms.

Oh.. I just did a preview on this post and realized I started rambling:o
I have found everyone around me is tired of hearing about HT's so if someone actually asks a questions I just dont shut up.... Another AVS Monster Created :D

As Paul Harvey would say (would have said:() "Now You know the rest of the Story"

Ramble on my man, that is awesome. When someone new asks I'm the same way, then I see the lost look in their face after a minute or so and know that it's time to wrap it up.

That is perfect though, exactly what I wasn't sure about and what I wanted to hear. I would love to do the array as it would be easier but it will probably rip itself out from the wall. The manifold type would certainly work and the space for it being right next to the riser is probably a good thing (as in getting to feel all the shake and boom possible:D).

Hey look at that, you made to page 2 now...

So what is going on down here in the dark anyhow?

I did'nt actually Marry a "Master Gardener", however last fall my wife tells me she is signing up for a "Mastner Gardener" class at IUPUI. Long Story Short...
12 weeks of classes and 35 hrs of community gardening service, (under the supervision of an already certified master gardner of course), a certificate comes in the mail declaring that I am now officially married to a "Master Gardner".

I must admit initially the idea presented great appeal, and I showered her with the usual spousal support. I envisioned my home surrounded with a park like yard , and the relaxing garden atmosphere a "Master Gardener" would create.

So 2 weekends ago, She dawns her brightly polished "Master Gardener" Crown and drives the truck to Menards on her first "officially sanctioned" mission. 3 hrs later, she returns with her smile in high lamp mode and (4) Trees (14) 3-5 gallon plants, (16) 1 gallon plants, and countless flats of those little black thingies with flowers in them.

And only then, while staring at a truck full of foilage, the first of the "Master Gardener Proclamations" is announced to the minions. (me and our 2 boys).

Here ye!, Here ye! --- "Master Gardeners" do not dig their own holes ---
:eek: Yes.. , but... basement.... but.......

Now planting for a "MG" is not like planting the old fashioned way, where you dig the hole, drop the plant in, pea on it, and watch it grow, there are RULES.

--Nothing can be planted until it is viewed in at least 6 different locations
--All holes must be dug exactly 2 x the size of the plant container.
--We are no longer allowed to call the stuff under the grass dirt.. it is now "native soil".
--All backfill material must be mixed precisely with 1 part "Native Soil" and one part "Super secret Non Native Soil, that looks like dirt but is $6 a bag"
-- No earthworm is to be injured in the excavation, they are to be handled with respect then gently placed back into the general vicinity after the backfill is complete
(apparently without earthworms and bees the human race would perish in seconds or something)
--Your tool shed must now be referred to as "The Potting House"
--Unless you yourself are a master gardener, your opinion does not count.

These were just the ones I can remember

Here's a tip for you others out there who are either married to, or planning on marrying an "MG";
DO NOT under any circumstance.. get caught trying to bury your miller lite can under the plant... even if it does look like a great earthworm habitat.

But I must admit, I like it when she takes the Initiative... like the following week end when she had the 8 yards of mulch dumped in the center of the driveway. :cool:

Guess what proclamation #2 was...

Your space is coming together nicely. Nice work and great thread. I'm looking forward to your continued progress.

Thanks kjlewie, I had set the end of May as my "Target" to have the room shell completed, but with the spring weather and my wifes new hobby i will miss it by a week or so.

I think Douglas Adams said it best:

"I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by."

Despite universal efforts (ie wife/kids/beautiful weather) to twart continued construction in the theater, I was able to make some progress in the last couple of weeks.

Heres the total of whats gone into the theatre walls in the 16.5' x 18.5' room + the IB chamber
205 sheets of assorted MDF, Dwall, OSB
(6) 5 gallon Pails of Green Glue
1.75 cases of SilenSeal.

Finally finished the hanging all the layers of Dwall, and got the first coat of mud on. Without a doubt the IB chamber was a huge PITA to hang all the layers in.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris073.jpg
Still need to build the door to seal the IB chamber in the center. But you can see the 2 holes for the manifolds to carry the (4) 18's
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris074.jpg
Picked up a couple solid core Oak veneer doors on sale.. these are interior doors.. I will remove the door stop and router a step around it to accept an exterior seal from an exterior door, add a bottom sweep then tapcon an exterior threshold in. This will save about $150 per door compared to quotes i got from a local mill works. I'll post pics to better explain when I do it.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris072.jpg


I had wrapped the beams in the GG Dwal, but decided i need a little more depth inside the soffit(would have been tight even for a low profile can, so i added a 2x on the bottom and another layer of dwal on the front of the soffit, this gives me 7" inside, plenty of room for cans.
I still have 7'5" to soffit bottom, and should end up at 7'4" when completly finished.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris075.jpg

Even without the Doors completly sealed, the room has an odd feeling inside now, hard to describe. But with the work radio in the room at above normal listening levels, absolutly nothing can be heard in the house directly above the theater. Curios to see how the efforts stand up aganist the LF's of the IB.

Lastly i want to post this jewel of a pic.. This is what you miss if you contract out the work..... A shot from the stairway into the basement....

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris077.jpg
This was a result of the "Mad Rush" to finish the shell. I took a load of Dwall scrap to the dump. Its mostly cleaned up now. still need to add the framing for the second door to the theater entrance.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris079.jpg

I hope it rains, so this weekend i can finish the Mud, and get started on the manifolds for the IB.

Good stuff! Now that there garden post is funny! One thing you forgot to report on was how many beers went in to this so far :)

Jeff

I must admit initially the idea presented great appeal, and I showered her with the usual spousal support. I envisioned my home surrounded with a park like yard , and the relaxing garden atmosphere a "Master Gardener" would create.

DO NOT under any circumstance.. get caught trying to bury your miller lite can under the plant... even if it does look like a great earthworm habitat.

But I must admit, I like it when she takes the Initiative... like the following week end when she had the 8 yards of mulch dumped in the center of the driveway. :cool:



Wow, did you marry my wife's sister?

Almost the exact same...except it was a lot more mulch dumped in the middle of the driveway.

I went through a 12 pack of Yuengling that day. :D

One thing you forgot to report on was how many beers went in to this so far :)

Jeff

Honestly I have not been keeping track, but I dont think it could be that many, because I usually get a pretty good buzz from one beer...

I just can't ever remember if its the 13th or 14th one.:D

Cheers..

Brad

Wow, did you marry my wife's sister?


I wouldnt wish my mother inlaw on anybody.:D


Almost the exact same...except it was a lot more mulch dumped in the middle of the driveway.

I went through a 12 pack of Yuengling that day. :D

Had I known then what I know now... i would have bought her a new digital camera and encouraged a photography class.... My yard may have not looked as good but there would have been alot more Pics of the HT build. and as a bounus she could have used the inside of the IB chamber as a dark room...

Funny, that thought just reminded me of an old Pat Travers Band song..... Boom, Boom out go the lights...:cool:

Well a little progress is better than no progress.

I finally got the pieces for the 2 IB manifolds cut using a "Track Saw" from dewalt.... really, really, cool tool for this type of work.
I ended up using 3/4 Birch Ply, which was actually cheaper than the MDF by $5 per sheet on sale.

Below are shots of the "Dry Assembly"... looks like it'll go together as planned. Manifold is 24" x 24" OD, 21" x 21" ID
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris081.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris085.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris089.jpg

Next step is to glue the assy together and router out for the Drivers.

Brad

Manifolds Glued and Screwed
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris094.jpg

Braced inside so I could route the openings for the drivers

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris102.jpg

Cut the first 18.5" od in 3 passes

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris098.jpg

Moved in and opened the slot up

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris101.jpg

Used a 1/4" up twist bit for the 16.75" id
Cut through in 2 passes

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris103.jpg

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris105.jpg

She fits

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris107.jpg

1/4-20 T nuts, lock washers, counduit clamps and bolts

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris109.jpg

Added a washer under the clamp to increase the surface area on the rim

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris112.jpg

One in

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris111.jpg

One Manifold fully assembled with the 18's. The Five gallon bucket puts it in perspective
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris116.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris114.jpg


This thing Weighs a TON I'll bet all of at least 180-190 lbs with the drivers. Definately will need help to slide them in the manifold openings.

I bought all the "T" nuts the store I stopped at had so I need to find some more to finish the 2nd manifold..

Im also going to put in shorter bolts and a drop of blue loctite ..

Some Goodies came last week also... :D

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris069.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris070.jpg

120" AT 2:35
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris090.jpg

I'm gonna set these up in my office for the time being..:D

Brad

Added a washer under the clamp to increase the surface area on the rim

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris112.jpg

One in

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris111.jpg
Just curious... what prompted you to use the mounting method above instead of using the pre-drilled holes in the mounting ring of the subwoofer?

I don't even have that much subbage (servo 15, SVS Ultra) and I have trouble keeping bass from leaking into the rest of the house. Your room is gonna rock.

Added a washer under the clamp to increase the surface area on the rim
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris111.jpg


Holy Infinite Baffle Batman! :eek:

Seriously, will this mounting method be secured enough? It seems as if those drivers will push out on those condiut brackets when a lot of bass action is occurring. No?

Just curious... what prompted you to use the mounting method above instead of using the pre-drilled holes in the mounting ring of the subwoofer?

jimlab ...

For the design of the manifolds and mounting of the drivers, I have been following the recomended practices found on the "Cult of the Infinitely Baffled"
http://ibsubwoofers.proboards.com/
The use of the clamps instead of the mounting ring seems to be the Best known method.

Heres a quote from the FAQ's section on the above mentioned site;

"I recommend the use of some form of clamp to secure the woofers to the box. The placement of the standard mounting screws in the frame of the woofer, leaves very little wood between the opening cutout for the driver, and the holes for the mounting screws. Using clamps avoids problems with tear out of this area. Clamps also make mounting and dismounting the drivers much faster and easier."

Brad

I pre-drilled holes in the recessed area of the ring you have shown.

Then installed metal thread inserts in the holes, set with thin epoxy.

This gave me metal threads to screw into. Machine thread screws with blue LockTite (the medium grade)

Solid as hell

I don't even have that much subbage (servo 15, SVS Ultra) and I have trouble keeping bass from leaking into the rest of the house. Your room is gonna rock.

Bing

Hopefully the time/effort/ $$ spent on the room construction will payoff.
I dont have any illusions about containing all of the LFE, but hopefully it will be down to the "Rumbling thunder off in the distance" level in the rest of the house, when its at the "I think my heart stopped" level in the room.

:D:D

Holy Infinite Baffle Batman! :eek:

Seriously, will this mounting method be secured enough? It seems as if those drivers will push out on those condiut brackets when a lot of bass action is occurring. No?

kezug ..

My understanding (although very limited) is that since the drivers are not contained in a sealed box with the "Air Spring" forces at work, and since each driver has an opposing driver, there are not the same mechanical forces at work as with a normal sub..

The IB drivers are not driven nearly as hard as the sealed box subs, because with out the "Air Spring" forces they would hit their excursion limits eaisier, thus they rely more on the quantity of drivers and the total volume of air displaced. ( :confused: I'm just parroting my intrepretation of what I have read from the others that have done this.. this is my first IB so it is a "learn as I go" experience for me also)

Brad

I pre-drilled holes in the recessed area of the ring you have shown.

Then installed metal thread inserts in the holes, set with thin epoxy.

This gave me metal threads to screw into. Machine thread screws with blue LockTite (the medium grade)

Solid as hell

Ditto.. i used the "T" nut inserts and will use the Blue loctite after I get the shorter bolts.. the difference is that I mounted them outside the ring and used clamps rather than the holes in the mounting ring..

Although this seems extremely robust.. after some of the concern that has been expressed with the use of the conduit clamps, im starting to second guess.. Ill probably look for something a little more rigid than the clamps I have..
Brad

For the design of the manifolds and mounting of the drivers, I have been following the recomended practices found on the "Cult of the Infinitely Baffled"
http://ibsubwoofers.proboards.com/
The use of the clamps instead of the mounting ring seems to be the Best known method.

Heres a quote from the FAQ's section on the above mentioned site;

"I recommend the use of some form of clamp to secure the woofers to the box. The placement of the standard mounting screws in the frame of the woofer, leaves very little wood between the opening cutout for the driver, and the holes for the mounting screws. Using clamps avoids problems with tear out of this area. Clamps also make mounting and dismounting the drivers much faster and easier."Thanks Brad. They might make removing a sub quicker (although screws do come out of the mounting ring just as fast), but did you note this statement?

"For smaller and lighter weight woofers, common clamps for 1/2" electrical conduit can be used."

I don't think your 18s fall into the "smaller and lighter" range. :)

Just FYI, I worked my way through college in a high end car stereo shop and I've built more subwoofer boxes of various configurations than most people. I've seen "engineered" clamps used occasionally, but never felt a need to use them myself, and I've worked with 15s and 18s extensively. I've never had a driver "tear out" of a box, no matter how much power was thrown at it.

I suspect the person who stated that there was "very little wood between the opening cutout for the driver, and the holes for the mounting screws" is one of those people who invents things to worry about. 8 screws through 3/4" MDF or plywood is more clamping force than a 15" or 18" driver can overcome, in my opinion.

Good luck with your IB sub!

Looking good Brad,

Question though, the IB's that I have seen set up like the one your making usually have the woofers facing in toward the inside of the box with the cages on the outside and the open port or center of the box facing towards the room. How are placing your boxes? I know I suggested the IB, but as you know I'm not extensively educated on the subject, so the way your placing them may be a different method of going about, just thought I'd ask and learn something new. Keep up the good work my friend.

^^What oman said. I was thinking the EXACT same thing when I first saw your pictures.

Oman / Nelson

The mounting of the speakers in this fashion in the manifold is called an "Outie Design". The output is the same regardless of which way the driver is mounted, ie front wave vs rear wave, doesnt matter for the sound.

People choose this mounting orientation for various reasons, sometimes they dont have clearance on the sides in their attic /basement etc.. and mounting with the magnets on the inside of the box gains needed clearance.. others dont have room to make a manifold large enough to mount the magnets on the inside becasue thier building their manifolds to port between wall studs/ floor joists.

Some designs have one driver in and one out, with the drivers wired in reverse phase, (mechanically in phase) so the rear wave from one driver cancels out the front wave from the 2nd driver. It just depends on the individual prefrence / application and what constraints may exist.

I personally chose this mounting orientation for a purley astetic reason.. "My Plan" (MY PLAN sounds like an oxymoron in this endeavour) is to back light my SMX AT screen, like the infamous sandmans screen.
http://www.smxscreen.com/images/Right-Back-Speakers.jpg
I need to paint the inside of the manifolds black then I will then put LED's in behind the drivers that light up with the back lights.. I just think the a$$ end of the drivers look cool and this might provide a real sense of menace to the look, with the 2 large manifold ports and the 4 drivers staring back at you through the screen. :eek::D

Hopefully I dont get a noticable reflection from the driver castings back through the screen during a movie.. if i do i will just remount the drivers on the outside of the manifolds.. :cool:

Brad

Oman / Nelson

The mounting of the speakers in this fashion in the manifold is called an "Outie Design". The output is the same regardless of which way the driver is mounted, ie front wave vs rear wave, doesnt matter for the sound.

People choose this mounting orientation for various reasons, sometimes they dont have clearance on the sides in their attic /basement etc.. and mounting with the magnets on the inside of the box gains needed clearance.. others dont have room to make a manifold large enough to mount the magnets on the inside becasue thier building their manifolds to port between wall studs/ floor joists.
Some designs have one driver in and one out, with the drivers wired in reverse phase, (mechanically in phase) so the rear wave from one driver cancels out the front wave from the 2nd driver. It just depends on the individual prefrence / application and what constraints may exist.


Ah now I see.


I personally chose this mounting orientation for a purley astetic reason.. "My Plan" (MY PLAN sounds like an oxymoron in this endeavour) is to back light my SMX AT screen, like the infamous sandmans screen.
http://www.smxscreen.com/images/Right-Back-Speakers.jpg
I need to paint the inside of the manifolds black then I will then put LED's in behind the drivers that light up with the back lights.. I just think the a$$ end of the drivers look cool and this might provide a real sense of menace to the look, with the 2 large manifold ports and the 4 drivers staring back at you through the screen. :eek::D

Hopefully I dont get a noticable reflection from the driver castings back through the screen during a movie.. if i do i will just remount the drivers on the outside of the manifolds.. :cool:

Brad

I LIKE IT!!! Carry on!!:D

I bet you close the door and you feel in a different place in that room. My room isnt done yet, but I have a couch and screen so I can semi use the room...tonight I was watching the hockey game with the wife and I turned to her and said "someone can rob our upstairs and I wouldnt even know it" her response "I know"

I mean I didnt use any special sound isolation techniques, just single drywall to joists. so I can only imagine what it is going to be like when you are finished and you lock yourself in the theater.

Looks sweet, cant wait to hear how the sub turns out.

Brad, thanks for posting in my thread. Now I've read yours... Great stuff and I can see the similarity with my build in the IB area. Funny thing is that I just ordered the same 4 drivers this morning before reading your thread :D

Some questions:
1. Maybe I missed it but could you point my to your thread on "the cult". I'd like to read.
2. Now I see your why you questioned the interior of the IB chamber in my thread. Did you get some advice that the MDF layer was a good idea?
3. What is the volume or your enclosure? Did you manage 10xVas ?

Now what I've learned:
Given that your construction is similar to mine and that you are coupled to the concrete floor already, attaching the IB sub to the floor would not make any difference (i.e. trying to isolate it from the floor is futile) however avoiding direct coupling to the walls would/could be beneficial to containment. I'm still researching my "build on a stage/floor" concept to avoid coupling to the walls.

Cheers.

Brad, thanks for posting in my thread. Now I've read yours... Great stuff and I can see the similarity with my build in the IB area. Funny thing is that I just ordered the same 4 drivers this morning before reading your thread :D.

Moggie .. Mine took about 12 days to arrive.. wait until you open the box and actually hold one...It puts a smile on your face.:eek:.:D

Some questions:
1. Maybe I missed it but could you point my to your thread on "the cult". I'd like to read..
Heres the link
http://ibsubwoofers.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=projects&action=display&thread=1364
Not much there really, that isnt in this thread. The guys at the cult are great and tons of help but no one seems to worry much about sound isolation.. I think the term they used for my chamber was "Heroic Overkill"


2. Now I see your why you questioned the interior of the IB chamber in my thread. Did you get some advice that the MDF layer was a good idea?
Actually, I was just tying to mix materials in an attempt to lower the ultimate resonance points, and the MDF adds more mass then another layer of just Dwall would.

3. What is the volume or your enclosure? Did you manage 10xVas ?

I ended up slightly over 6.. They recommend 4-5 min, with 10X being the theoretical point of infinity.. yours will definately be ok at ~ 8.2. like you I will be adding alot of insulation inside the chamber to increase the effective volume.

Now what I've learned:
Given that your construction is similar to mine and that you are coupled to the concrete floor already, attaching the IB sub to the floor would not make any difference (i.e. trying to isolate it from the floor is futile) however avoiding direct coupling to the walls would/could be beneficial to containment. I'm still researching my "build on a stage/floor" concept to avoid coupling to the walls.
Cheers.

I fully agree with the Dampened platform approach to reduce the "mechanical" vibrations.. although providing a resiliant seal for the manifolds without coupling to the walls presents an interesting challenge.

When I was pondering the various approches to isolation I finally decided that the transfer of energy through the concrete slab in a basement would be difficult to eliminate short of a truly "Floating Floor". At one point I had considered sawing the concrete floor around the perimenter of my room to try to decouple the floor .. but decided I had to draw the line somewhere between theoretical and what was realistic for a home theater.

I can however see a benefit to a sand filled platform as low cost insurance, even if the walls are coupled to the floor. It can do nothing but help dampen vibrations from the manifolds.

With sound isolation as the primary objective, I threw as much as possible inside the chamber, particullarly at the ceiling. I think the LF's through the ceiling of the chamber will have more of an direct impact on whether I will hear anything upstairs. I lowered the ceiling in the chamber to get ~ 22" of airspace between it and the floor above. I lined the entire chamber with 3/4 MDF, GG, 5/8 DW, GG, 5/8 DW, at the end i had some 1/2 DW left from another part of the basement and added it with another layer of GG to just the ceiling.

Its like a little bomb shelter in there... I honestly dont care if I ever go into that room again.. seems like i was in there forever screwing Dwall and spreading GG, with VERY little room to work:o

Brad

I bet you close the door and you feel in a different place in that room. My room isnt done yet, but I have a couch and screen so I can semi use the room...tonight I was watching the hockey game with the wife and I turned to her and said "someone can rob our upstairs and I wouldnt even know it" her response "I know"

I mean I didnt use any special sound isolation techniques, just single drywall to joists. so I can only imagine what it is going to be like when you are finished and you lock yourself in the theater.

Looks sweet, cant wait to hear how the sub turns out.

Hey Smack..

Actually its kind of a wierd feeling in there.. really quiet, but its all hard surfaces so very echoy (word?) Hard to describe but its an odd, almost an uncomfortable feeling in the room right now.

Your right someone could break in and clean me out and i wouldnt know it if i was in the room... at least they wont get my HT equiptment.:D

I checked in on your thread the other day... your whole basement is looking great..

Brad

... I just think the a$$ end of the drivers look cool and this might provide a real sense of menace to the look, with the 2 large manifold ports and the 4 drivers staring back at you through the screen. :eek::D

Brad

Sounds pretty wicked to me. Looking forward to it.

I finally got the drywall dust taste out of my mouth.

White Room (not too exciting, but a milestone for me none the less)- mudded/sanded, primered/sealed.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris002-1.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris003-1.jpg

Manifolds Painted & installed.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris001-2.jpg
Per advice: When i took the drivers out to paint, I eliminated the Conduit clamps previously used for mounting the drivers and attached directly through the drivers rim :rolleyes:

Next: Ceiling.. probably some type of coffer design

Brad

I am frightened when I see the drivers...

Very nice, congratulations!
I was curious how the orientation of those drivers you have for the IB sub would turn out. After seeing how they look in the manifolds, I think those are going to be really impressive when you flip on the behind-the-screen lighting. Anyone who knows what they are looking at will get a very serious case of bass envy... :D

i am frightened when i see the drivers...

MEEE TOOOO!! :eek: I think I'm gonna send one of the kids in to throw the switch for the first time..:D

very nice, congratulations!
I was curious how the orientation of those drivers you have for the ib sub would turn out. After seeing how they look in the manifolds, i think those are going to be really impressive when you flip on the behind-the-screen lighting. Anyone who knows what they are looking at will get a very serious case of bass envy... :d

Thanks HD.. I'm happy with the "Look", I think the room tweak/eq for the sound will be the challenge..:confused: I can see another 100 hrs of forum reading in my near future.

Brad

Wow, simply stunning.

I love it...Though when you mentioned how you were gonna mount the baffles I pictured the drivers facing to the sides. I'm sure they will be fine the way you orientated them but my concern would be with those bottom drivers and gravity, considering the amount push and pull I've seen on other woofers in youtube videos.

Still, those woofers will look menacing, when you light them up from behind, awesome job. Wish we were local to each other so I could check it out when done.

BTW, great job on the rock, sanding, and priming. Coming right along.

Manifolds Painted & installed.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris001-2.jpg
Per advice: When i took the drivers out to paint, I eliminated the Conduit clamps previously used for mounting the drivers and attached directly through the drivers rim :rolleyes:
Brad
Brad,

What did you use to prop-up the manifolds off the floor? Did you build a stiff 2x4 base?

And good idea ditching the pipe clamps. I built my current IB setup that way but plan to rebuild and use screws this time (just like you).

BTW -- they look great!

Wow, simply stunning.

I love it...Though when you mentioned how you were gonna mount the baffles I pictured the drivers facing to the sides. I'm sure they will be fine the way you orientated them but my concern would be with those bottom drivers and gravity, considering the amount push and pull I've seen on other woofers in youtube videos.

Still, those woofers will look menacing, when you light them up from behind, awesome job. Wish we were local to each other so I could check it out when done.

BTW, great job on the rock, sanding, and priming. Coming right along.

Oman.. Thanks for the props

I'm still cheezin everytime I look at em..

The orientation was kinda driven by the width of my chamber, and a recomendation to maintain 2' clearance from the drivers.

It seems like their are quite a few down firing subs now, but the possibility of Driver "Sag" is a valid point for ones this size. The general consenus on the Cult form was that there is no reason for concern and this orientation was fine. Since I dont have alot of (any) experience with anything this large, the entire IB endevour is on blind faith, and their recomendations.

I hope your taking some time to sit under the stars and enjoy a movie..:D

Brad,

What did you use to prop-up the manifolds off the floor? Did you build a stiff 2x4 base?

And good idea ditching the pipe clamps. I built my current IB setup that way but plan to rebuild and use screws this time (just like you).

BTW -- they look great!

Hey Steve..

I haven't built the rear supports yet.. I'm kinda playing with a concept another member "Moggie" got me started thinking about. He was looking at mounting the manifolds on a sand filled stage and decoupling the assembly from the manifold wall... Although my manifolds are coupled to the baffle wall, I'm thinking some type of rigid connection of the manifolds to a large sand filled base could still benefit dampening/ energy dissipation from the manifolds. I'm not decided though and my laziness (getting 500-600# sand in basement)will probably dictate the "Stiff 2x4" support.:rolleyes:

Did you say "Rebuild"!! I just saw FiAudio is planning on releasing a 22" IB driver:eek:

Steve.. Great HT build thread, one of the ones i have managed to read start to finish.

Brad

Just sick, sweet HT setup...
RS20 tonight?
--Manny

I hope your taking some time to sit under the stars and enjoy a movie..:D


My wife bought me Defiance on Blu Ray for my B-day beginning of June. Saw it the day after (Good Movie). Last weekend was my duaghter's B-day and she got to enjoy the HT with her friends for a sleepover. I turned on the stars for effect and when the movie started I asked if they wanted the stars off, they replied "no way, those are cool":D

Been busy doing some side work to get some extra dough, so other then that not much movie time. I need to get one in this weekend as I am starting to feel the withdrawal effects.

KL-650's - LCR
KS-525 Dipoles - Side Surrounds
KL-525's - Rear Surrounds
:D
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris204.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris199.jpg

Man the change in scope/direction from the first post to this one is amazing. you went from not too sure about what was happening to full freaking bore with this. That IB sub scares the crap out of me. Until I finally hear one I am always going to wonder why one would be needed since my 12" HSU rocks the room. I can't even imagine this one. Reminds me of Ronnie Jackson's comment on how his moved the ceiling joists when it was going.

And that was a BUNCH of GG you used. I did 2 layers of drywall without GG and mine is pretty quiet outside so I can imaging no leakage from this room. great thread and I am now subscribed.

John

looking good! can't wait to see the speakers setup:D

Nice speakers. You're going to be in heaven.

Like everyone else, I too, am selfishly waiting for that IB chamber to become a... fully operational battlestation. Sorry for the cheesy Star Wars reference - I couldn't resist. The IB is just so creepy cool. What color will the lighting be again?

Keep up the good work.

A mans pile of toys, just lovely

Man the change in scope/direction from the first post to this one is amazing. you went from not too sure about what was happening to full freaking bore with this. That IB sub scares the crap out of me. Until I finally hear one I am always going to wonder why one would be needed since my 12" HSU rocks the room. I can't even imagine this one. Reminds me of Ronnie Jackson's comment on how his moved the ceiling joists when it was going.

And that was a BUNCH of GG you used. I did 2 layers of drywall without GG and mine is pretty quiet outside so I can imaging no leakage from this room. great thread and I am now subscribed.

John

John.. I'm still waiting to see how well the efforts for sound isolation stand up to the LF of the IB.. but as of now.. i can crank the stereo in the room to nearly unformfortable levels and you can not hear a thing in the kitchen above, and the only thing you can hear in the room with my 2 boys running around upstairs is the Hum from the florescent light.. so far I think the efforts were worth it.

Welcome back.. the basement is looking Great!!

looking good! can't wait to see the speakers setup:D

Manny Thanks.. It'll be a minute or two before their hooked up. I really didnt need the speakers yet, I had the size dimensions but i wanted them physically in my hands so I could start on the columns.

Nice speakers. You're going to be in heaven.

Like everyone else, I too, am selfishly waiting for that IB chamber to become a... fully operational battlestation. Sorry for the cheesy Star Wars reference - I couldn't resist. The IB is just so creepy cool. What color will the lighting be again?

Keep up the good work.

KJ.. I am going to try Blue LED light strips in the back of the manifold behind the drivers, if thats not bright enough I'll switch to white.. May the Force be With You;)

A mans pile of toys, just lovely

As you may imagine.. its getting harder to hide everything from the wife!!:D



Ok .. I have everything needed (I think) to Power up the IB and eventually EQ it to the room. Everything was ordered from ZZsounds

- Behringer ECM8000 Measurement Microphone
- Behringer EP2500 Power Amplifier
- Behringer FBQ2496 Feedback Destroyer Pro
- M-Audio MobilePre USB Interface with Microphone Preamp
- M-Audio MIDISport UNO 1x1 MIDI Interface with Cables and Connectors
- On-Stage Tripod/Boom Microphone Stand
- Whirlwind MC20 XLR Microphone Cable

Unfortunately, I'll be on travel most of next week so it'll be the end of the month before I can get around to the initial test.

Bryan also completed the accoustical design, (Great guy, bless him for his patience with me). and is putting together the treatment materials list for me.

So.. I will soon have everything I need to move into the next stages of the project.

Brad

I'll be eagerly waiting for the next update;)
sweet setup!!!!

I swear, every time I take a peek into your build it reminds me of mine. :) Love the IB and main speaker choices... :)

I swear, every time I take a peak into your build it reminds me of mine. :) Love the IB and main speaker choices... :)

Thats because I'm Copying you.. its much easier than coming up with my own plan... now hurry and make a seating selection, I want to order while roman has his summer power buy going.:D:D:D

Did you just sit and stare at the pile of speaker goodness for a few hours? I would have. :)

Thats because I'm Copying you.. its much easier than coming up with my own plan... now hurry and make a seating selection, I want to order while roman has his summer power buy going.:D:D:D

BAHAHAHA!! In that case you are sooooo screwed. :D

As for seats, we decided to go suede microfiber instead of either powerbuy leather option. We have a large leather sofa and while it is great for keeping dog hair off, it's always cold. The theater is naturally cold to start and so leather just isn't the right choice for us. So for an extra $75 per chair, getting microfiber instead of the leather/vinyl china made seat is no big deal. If I was to get leather, I'd jump at the power buy.

BAHAHAHA!! In that case you are sooooo screwed. :D
:D:D

As for seats, we decided to go suede microfiber instead of either powerbuy leather option. We have a large leather sofa and while it is great for keeping dog hair off, it's always cold. The theater is naturally cold to start and so leather just isn't the right choice for us. So for an extra $75 per chair, getting microfiber instead of the leather/vinyl china made seat is no big deal. If I was to get leather, I'd jump at the power buy.

Good point on the leather.. even when I lived in phoenix, leather furniture was cold when you first sat in it.. My concern is Durability.. as you can imagine 10&12 yr old boys are tough on furniture. I'd probably be better off with bean bags

Did you just sit and stare at the pile of speaker goodness for a few hours? I would have. :)

I looked at them for hours, then i discovered that if I put my thumb in front of my face and focused on it... I could see as many as 21 speakers...:D

Brad..

PS.. i could never see any of the 3D images, my kids have some hanging in their rooms and Im still not sure what they are pictures of.

Brad, I was wondering why I didn't have more readers on my thread and then I stumbled into yours! No wonder! There are obviously much cooler things going on around here than my "average" build. :) Like IB subwoofers! Man, that photo will get the testosterone flowing!

I, too, have the Klipsch THX speakers (only the front three so far). I am a year away from upgrading my sub, and I'll be very curious to find out your thoughts on how the Klipsch work along side such monster base. I sort of had my sights set on something like an ED A7-900, but only because I know nothing of IB subs. You're going to love the Klipsch by the way. I can send everyone running to the next room with them and so far they are powered by a measley receiver.

Keep up the good work.

Tony

Golf, Family Vacation, and Boo Koo travel for work has hampered room progress, Ill update some measly odds and ends stuff later.. but now for the eye candy.
D2V
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris215.jpg
Statement P2 and P5
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris211.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris213.jpg
The P5 is an A$$ buster, weighing in at over 130# in the box.

Very nice. I'm glad I guilted you into an update ;)

But since you are going all out what about a 9.1 system...

That Anthem set-up is insane. I hope you realize you need a 20 amp circuit for the P5 alone, since it's putting out 1625 watts. Another 20 Amp for the P2 and D2, and another 20 Amp for the rest of your gear. That's at least 3 separate circuits for your rack alone. You may be able to get away with just 2 circuits if you are willing to put the P2 with the rest of your gear, but that may be pushing it when the volume gets cranking, which it will.

Just my 2 cents. Stop me if you've planned accordingly. :)

Absolutely stunning!

Very nice. I'm glad I guilted you into an update ;)

But since you are going all out what about a 9.1 system...

What makes this post so funny to me is that you are "SPOT ON" thats exactly what happened when I saw your sheeted room.. I starting feeling Lazy..

That Anthem set-up is insane. I hope you realize you need a 20 amp circuit for the P5 alone, since it's putting out 1625 watts. Another 20 Amp for the P2 and D2, and another 20 Amp for the rest of your gear. That's at least 3 separate circuits for your rack alone. You may be able to get away with just 2 circuits if you are willing to put the P2 with the rest of your gear, but that may be pushing it when the volume gets cranking, which it will.

Just my 2 cents. Stop me if you've planned accordingly. :)



Yea.. the P5's an animal on the juice.. I think i read it pulls 300+ watts in standby.
Actually they recommend 2 dedicated 20 amps for the P5 alone.

Bottom inside of left panel I pulled another 100 amp circuit....
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC03227.jpg
Put a 100 amp panel for the rack in the "Soon to be drywalled equiptment room"..
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC03230.jpg

Plan for the Panel
2 dedicated 20's for the P5
1 dedicated 20 for the P2
1 dedicated 20 for the EP2500 (sub amp)
1 for a power conditioner/APC for the D2v and Possible projector.

I have room left in my main panels so I will probably just pull a couple general lighthing circuits from there.

Brad

Looks like you have your bases covered regarding circuits Brad. Nice work.

By the way, I live in Spencer, so you had better leave that set-up under lock and key. :)

Fantastic thread. Can't wait to see more. Keep up the great work.

My LEDS for the IB Came in.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris218.jpg

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris230.jpg

Should look pretty cool with the SMX in backlit mode...

Brad

How wicked is that? Way, way, way cool!!!

Wow!!! looking really cool! very nice equipment:D
Anthem all the way!!!1
--Manny

Brad,

The LEDs look good. I wasn't thinking about doing that for my IB, but now that I see yours, I may do something similar. I already have plans to light up the area behind the screen, so the IB shouldn't be too much trouble.

What makes this post so funny to me is that you are "SPOT ON" thats exactly what happened when I saw your sheeted room.. I starting feeling Lazy..





Yea.. the P5's an animal on the juice.. I think i read it pulls 300+ watts in standby.
Actually they recommend 2 dedicated 20 amps for the P5 alone.

Bottom inside of left panel I pulled another 100 amp circuit....
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC03227.jpg
Put a 100 amp panel for the rack in the "Soon to be drywalled equiptment room"..
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC03230.jpg

Plan for the Panel
2 dedicated 20's for the P5
1 dedicated 20 for the P2
1 dedicated 20 for the EP2500 (sub amp)
1 for a power conditioner/APC for the D2v and Possible projector.

I have room left in my main panels so I will probably just pull a couple general lighthing circuits from there.

Brad

How do you get generator power to your transfer switch?

How do you get generator power to your transfer switch?

Theres a power inlet directly above the panels on the exterior, fed down through the conduits.

Brad

KJ, Manny & Tom,

Thanks guys.. I'm really pleased with the way it looks...

Thats the first time I've played around with the Flexible LED strip lights, Neat product, only wish it wasnt so pricey still.. I think I'd like to use it around the soffit.. it's actually a little brighter than I had expected.


Brad

I received some PM's asking about the type of LED i used in the manifolds.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris230-1.jpg

The LEDs come surface mounted on a flexible circuit.
They are different than a rope light.
Heres a close up..

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris.jpg

You can buy them in about any length you want.. and these can be cut between every 3rd light. (you can see the white line across the strip in the area where they can be cut.) The 2 pads on each side of the white line are where you can solder the leads for the transformer.

I bought non-waterproof ones, but they are available in a waterproof style if you want to use them outside.

They can be purchased in all the normal colors, Red, Green, Blue, Amber, RGB etc.. and the strip i purchased comes with double sided 3M tape for mounting.
It also appears to me that you can bend these about any way you want, sharp angles etc.. without hurting them.

Brad

What makes this post so funny to me is that you are "SPOT ON" thats exactly what happened when I saw your sheeted room.. I starting feeling Lazy..





Yea.. the P5's an animal on the juice.. I think i read it pulls 300+ watts in standby.
Actually they recommend 2 dedicated 20 amps for the P5 alone.

Bottom inside of left panel I pulled another 100 amp circuit....
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC03227.jpg
Put a 100 amp panel for the rack in the "Soon to be drywalled equiptment room"..
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC03230.jpg

Plan for the Panel
2 dedicated 20's for the P5
1 dedicated 20 for the P2
1 dedicated 20 for the EP2500 (sub amp)
1 for a power conditioner/APC for the D2v and Possible projector.

I have room left in my main panels so I will probably just pull a couple general lighthing circuits from there.

Brad

My LEDS for the IB Came in.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris218.jpg

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris230.jpg

Should look pretty cool with the SMX in backlit mode...

Brad

GOOD GOD, This is amazing, first the crazy power requirements and the the IB LEDs, all just plain awesome!

I was thinking about powered amps for my setup down the road potentially since all my speakers are towers, they sound good normal, but that certainly gets a boost from some extra juice. However, if this is the case and I need dedicated circuits like that, I will have to upgrade my measly 40 amp circuit that supports the whole basement as is...I guess thats why they call it 2.0, very cool.

GOOD GOD, This is amazing, first the crazy power requirements and the the IB LEDs, all just plain awesome!

I was thinking about powered amps for my setup down the road potentially since all my speakers are towers, they sound good normal, but that certainly gets a boost from some extra juice. However, if this is the case and I need dedicated circuits like that, I will have to upgrade my measly 40 amp circuit that supports the whole basement as is...I guess thats why they call it 2.0, very cool.

It does look amazing...although smaks, I'm pretty sure your corners would all come undone... :p

A pictorial Saga of my Elliptical prosecenium build

The total width of the casing is 16' and the ellipse is 12'

Split 2- 4x8 sheets oak ply in half

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC03296.jpg

set 2 halves end to end and traced an ellipse using the "String and 2 Nails" Method.

Then i staked the 1/2's and Cut it out with Jig Saw

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC03301.jpg

Transferred the pattern to the other 2 halves and repeated

Stacked the 4 sides together and sanded the elllipse to smooth out the jig saw cut.


http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC03305.jpg

Routered a 1/4 x 1/4 groove in each arch.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC03311.jpg

Assemble 1/2 the arch.

Each 1/2 of the casing is 8' wide

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00787.jpg

Broke the first 1/4" oak ply I tried to bend around end radii.

So I steamed the next one.

Check out the Getto Steamer...

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC03317.jpg

After it was soft , I just pressed it down in the routered groove and clamped it in place to cool.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC03324.jpg

After it was glued i test fit the 1st half.

I built the arches 5 9/16" inside the casing so I could use a 2x6 to slide over and mount.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00794.jpg

Assembled the 2nd 1/2 of the casing then cut a keystone from a left over oak stair tread.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00796.jpg

Routered the edges and attached this oak lion head I picked up off of ebay.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00801.jpg

Shot of the test fit for the full arch and keystone.

I angled to keystone os its looking right at the seats.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00802-1.jpg

I still need to finish the keystone with sides and a full bottom so its looks like it is the depth of the casing.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00803.jpg

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00807.jpg

I'll take everything down now to add the lights in the casing, stain, and finish trimming it all out, and build the screen wall before putting the arch back up.

I'm not sure I like the keystone's size/scale. I might want to cut a little off of the width so it doesnt look so much like home plate. I'm thinking about cutting the sides in closer to the lion's mane, but i cant decide, I'll look at it for a day to see how it feels. any recomendations.. cut it narrower..? leave it like it is...? use it for kindling....?

Brad

Great work and great pictorial!

LOOKING GREAT!!!!! Great woodwork...
Love the Lion Keystone, can't wait to see more updates:D
--Manny

Wow:eek:(that is an expression of awe!!!) great work man.

I love getto products:D

The keystone and scale looks good to me. You have to have a theme song to your theater though. May I suggest "I always feel like somebody's watching me!" ;)

Great job and thanks so much for sharing the process with us. Very interesting.

+1 Great work, Brad.

I like the keystone as is. It does not look like home plate to me.

What stain are you using?

Thanks for the encouragement Guys..

With the bending required I'm finding the ellipse has ended up being a large PIA compared to what a standard arc segment would have been.

I went down and looked again this morning, I'll go with the keystone as is, maybe after i add some dimensional depth I'll warm up to it a little more than I did initially.

Omen.. I thought about 2 red LED's in the lions eyes, (only for a min), then it would have felt like someone was watching.

KJ.. I havent started testing stain yet.. but it will be something with some red tint, along the lines of your "B" option in this post. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16626149&postcount=181

More to come (eventually....:))

Brad

Been a while since I checked on your progress. The elliptical soffit looks very nice. Looking forward to seeing more.

Thanks Dave...


Continuing with the Getto theme.. here is a form that compliments my steamer beautifully.

Traced the end of the arch on a 2x, then cut it out with a jig saw.

Mounted the 1st 1/2 of the form and a stop block to another 2x.(you can see the nails in the pieces that are mounted)

After steaming you use the 2nd 1/2 the form and pound the weges between it and the stop block to bend the wood.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00790.jpg

After cooling it holds the exact shape.

This piece of trim will be used to add a little reveal to the front of the ellipse.

Brad

Hey Brad, the proportions of the prosecenium look really good. What is the size of the screen you have masked out?

Moggie.. The ellipse is 144" wide with a 10" rise. The masking represents a 120" wide 2:37.

Started mudding and taping "Old Vic" yet?

Brad

Moggie.. The ellipse is 144" wide with a 10" rise. The masking represents a 120" wide 2:37.

Started mudding and taping "Old Vic" yet?

Brad

Thanks. Mudding and taping just about done and quite a bit more. Update soon!

Oh My GAWD it has been months since I got advice on my building my underequiped hole in my basement family media room compared to this thread. The reason I was lookign again was we are thinking of building and I am allowed to have my OWN THEATER and was looking into under garage theaters......now I want yours. Truly amazaing I now remember why I fell in love with this site and the people like yourself who grace its presence. I will be following your thread very closely.

Thank you,
Phil

Sweet! Great job with the pics on the proscenium! I love arches over the screen, it is nice to see a theater with one. Very nice...

Thanks Warren.
I loved the grandness of the old theaters and wanted to capture what little I could in my room, so I spent a some time looking at the Prosceniums from theaters built around the turn of the century, (not this one.. the last one) and the arch appeared to be one of the prevelant architectural styles.

Heres a neat website of an UK organization, "The Theater Trust", a government organization that advises on new theaters and promotes Sustainablity of exisiting ones.

http://www.theatrestrust.org.uk/search?page=6&q=proscenium&type=all

The site contains an image database of old Theaters/Opera houses/hippodromes from around Europe.

In a way its sadening that some of these beautiful theaters we turned into bingo halls etc.. or were simply abandoned. It would have been fun to see them in their hey-day.


Brad

Brad,

WONDERFUL Craftsmanship! I think I picked up a few tips myself :)

The first thought I had about the keystone is it needs to be slightly wider at the bottom so that the lion's whiskers do not extend into the routed edges. One other idea is to put a 1/4" to 3/8" spacer behind the head and have it "float" in front of the keystone a bit. At that point, you could leave the width the same or possibly make it narrower.

Oh -- and some dim red LEDs would be interesting. If you really want to go over the top, add a circuit that taps into the LFE line. As the LFE signal gets stronger, the lights get brighter ;)

And on a unrelated note, it reminds me of an old 80's arcade game called Sinistar (http://epg3.tripod.com/sinistar.html). He had some key phrases like: "Beware, I Live (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/bewareilive.wav) -- Run Coward (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/runcoward.wav) -- The Roar (http://swithey.gotdns.org/swithey/ht/avs/aargh.wav)".

Overall, very nice job!

Thanks Steve,

I love the lions head .... but... You know that lions mane has bugged me ever since I opened up the box.
Its not symetrical to the lions face, those two tufts of mane stick out about 3/8's further on one side. I've waited and waited and there's just something about the lion/keystone that that refuses to grow on me. I like the idea of spacing the lion slightly off the face, ill give that a try first and then cut another keystone if all else fails. I'm stuck in Asia the rest of the week so it'll be a few before I get back too it.

I dont remember Sinistar, I was just getting my drivers license when the first Space Invaders/Asteroids games started hitting the scence, so all my quarters went into the gas tank (@.60 per gallon) for "cruzin".... (that memory made me feel old)

Brad

Hey Brad, a little late to the party but good to see another IB in Indiana! I've got 4 MJ18's with an EP2500. I've also heard the Fi's and they were just stunning. What part of the state are you in? If you're close and ever need a hand just let me know.

I like the lion, and wonder if after staining the asymetry will not stand out as much? Also, I think the plaque should be large enough that no part of the lion hangs over (as the mane does now).

Maybe if you had some element that repeated the keystone all the way across the front wall soffit? like dentile molding? This might help tie the keystone down. It currently feels like its floating up there to me.

Looking great!

Hello Chadci.. I'm about 20 min N of indy off of 69.. so were about 40min apart. Did you set your IB up for 2 channel or HT originally? I have'nt even begun to try to flatten the IB yet, I'm just gonna wait until the treatments are up, did you have any issues with this or was the rew pretty straight forward.

Brad

I like the lion, and wonder if after staining the asymetry will not stand out as much? Also, I think the plaque should be large enough that no part of the lion hangs over (as the mane does now).

Maybe if you had some element that repeated the keystone all the way across the front wall soffit? like dentile molding? This might help tie the keystone down. It currently feels like its floating up there to me.

Looking great!

Tony, your probably right about stain blending everything better, and everyone seems in agreement that the mane should not extend past the edges. I contemplated "wittling" back the two tufts on that side, to acheive the symmetry that i seem to require.

The angle on the keystone is such that the top sets out and "should" align with the crown mould I plan to use across the top of the arch/ceiling. The crown has a dentil in it and will dive into the sides of the key.

If i dwell on all the finishing details this much i should be completed around my 3rd reincarnation:rolleyes:

Hello Chadci.. I'm about 20 min N of indy off of 69.. so were about 40min apart. Did you set your IB up for 2 channel or HT originally? I have'nt even begun to try to flatten the IB yet, I'm just gonna wait until the treatments are up, did you have any issues with this or was the rew pretty straight forward.

Brad

Well, this is my second IB. Both were dialed in for HT use but when I want to listen to music I usually just increase the signal a few clicks and it works just fine. My current IB did not seem to need any eq, the manifold opening is directly above the center channel, not really near any corners etc and it's ceiling mounted. I do have all 4 drivers in one manifold, so, I don't know what setting up 2 seperate manifolds will be like.

And I69, hopefully that tanker explosion did not cause you any commuting issues.

Brad,

This is my first time seeing your space. I love the layout of your basement. I love how you have access to the back of your screen from another room. I'm quite envious. The screen wall is coming out great.

Just great work, keep plugging away.

Ed,

Thanks Man, actually you would be flattered if you only knew how many times I've shown my wife the picture of your bar and said "That's exactly what we are going to do down stairs"

I appreciate you pulling my thread from the archives I'm 1-2 weeks from my next update and this helps to motivate me.

Brad

I haven't been to your thread since it was on page 1.... Nice progress... Impressive work on the IB setup!

Wow, beautiful work (and speakers!) Did you get a discount on them living in Indiana :)

Joe, Dave.. thanks for the comments.

Nope no discounts on the Klipsch. If im not mistaken although the Headquarters and R&D are in Indy, i think the manufacturing is still in Arkansas or somewhere like that.

Brad

Joe, Dave.. thanks for the comments.

Nope no discounts on the Klipsch. If im not mistaken although the Headquarters and R&D are in Indy, i think the manufacturing is still in Arkansas or somewhere like that.

Brad

I believe you are correct. I know that Us Hoosiers don't get any "special treatment" from Klipsch in the discount department, but when I had a CS question and called support I did get a nod when I told them I was from Indiana and was told if the retailer did not come through for me to call him back and he would personally take care of the issue. Great CS IMHO, and great speakers.

Great work all around on your build. Coming along nicely and should be a killer setup. I personally LOVE the lions head and would not worry too much about the asymmetry...since when have you ever seen a lions mane that was symmetrical?

Regards,

RTROSE

Years ago when I owned Klipsch speakers, the carton did not come with floor spikes. I rang them up and gave her my address. The lady says "Oh, my mom lives about a block away". I've driven by their offices near The Pyramids a million times and never once has anybody handed me anything free :)

Those are some huge speakers

I love the look of that lion, can't wait to see what it looks like when finished. I went out to Ebay and also tried google and I couldn't find any more of those anywhere. Any idea who makes them?

Hey Nebrunner... sorry for the delayed response I was on travel and ended up stuck in YUL and extra day due to the snow storms.

Here is a link to the ebay store of the vendor I got the lion head from.

http://stores.ebay.com/Zakros-Designs_Red-Oak_W0QQ_fsubZ1113338016QQ_sidZ727695566QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0 Q2em322

There are a couple of different sizes and wood types available.

Brad

Do you think the IB subwoofer would work well if it was mounted on the back wall instead? The room i'm building will have a "projection booth" behind the theater that should be pretty good for the backwave. This would mean the drivers would be in the back of the room though. (Pics in my build thread)

Thanks!
-Snurf

Do you think the IB subwoofer would work well if it was mounted on the back wall instead? The room i'm building will have a "projection booth" behind the theater that should be pretty good for the backwave. This would mean the drivers would be in the back of the room though. (Pics in my build thread)

Thanks!
-Snurf

Snurf,

The advice from the "cult of the infinitely baffled" is as follows:

Generally speaking we do not recommend placing the IB behind or immediately beside the listening position (too many potential phase related issues with the mains/smearing the stereo image). If this is the only option, test the location (see FAQ #20) prior to cutting any holes. For the best performance in this situation consider using sealed box subs in the front of the room, augmented by the rear mounted IB using a very low crossover point. Also see FAQ #21 regarding phase adjustable crossovers. For more info on this topic see page #1 of the Generic Design/Build/Install page.

Do you think the IB subwoofer would work well if it was mounted on the back wall instead? The room i'm building will have a "projection booth" behind the theater that should be pretty good for the backwave. This would mean the drivers would be in the back of the room though. (Pics in my build thread)

Thanks!
-Snurf

Snurf.. In addition to the information provided above from Moggie, other considerations/concerns would be sealing the rear wave in your layout. It may be difficult to provide an adequate seal around the door and the cutout for the projector if using the projection booth for the chamber.

Keep working through your plans, you have a really nice space to work with, I wish I had the room length you have.

Brad

After a lengthy period of paralysis I finally began cutting wood again..
So I'll show ya all the baby first and tell ya about the labor pains later.

Componants set in place right now for the final view before stain.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC039181.jpg
The pictures dont do it justice, I'm a little over 6' and I'm about eye to eye with the kitties, they definatley have more of a presence then you get from the pictures. The assembly is 16' wide.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC039142-1.jpg

Still need to take the arch back down and finish trimming it out, and cutout for the 4 cans.

Figured out what bugged me about the lion (actually a buddy pointed it out, couldnt believe I had starred at that thing for hours and had not seen the problem) So ill be able to correct the keystone and finish boxing it out.

The pedastle, capitol and middle section were built as open sided boxes, so i can stuff the back side with 703.

Pedestle construction
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00850.jpg

routered what felt like miles of Oak S4S

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00848.jpg

Connect the boxes and add some of the routered trim

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00854.jpg

and then the crown and more trim

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00857.jpg

Heres the capitol with the routered trim without the crown

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00819.jpg

Here you can see the middle frame being built and the back of the Capitols

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00824.jpg

Both the Capitol and Pedestle with get rope and trim inserts in the open bands after stain.

]http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC03917.jpg
Heres the color of stain Im leaning towards. And a shot of the trim for the bands. The rope should really pop aganist the dark stain
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00859.jpg

I'm pleased with it so far!! The theater is beginning to have the "Feel" I'm shooting for:)

The last design hurdle for the Proscenium is determining what I will do with the middle behind the lions, inset panel?, raised panel?, some type of lighting effect?.. Cloth? not sure yet.. leaning towards a simple inset panel.
Open for Ideas....

Brad

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC008421.jpg

As a Leo, you're making me extremely jealous! Amazing skills and vision...can't wait to see it completed.

Can't wait to see it all come together.

Nice work - really top notch. I like the stain color too. I'm also anxious to see the final product.

Wow! haven't looked at this thread for ages. Coming along very nicely indeed.

Keep the pics flowing :D

I love your theater build! I'm learning! :)

Alright now you are pissing me off! Just kidding of course, Freaking cool dude! Simply love it....not much more to say :)


edit- take your time on the stain selection. Just me but I bet there is something better :confused:

Brad, Wow dude. With or without elves this is something else. You have great vision and are going to have a very unique look to your theater. Well done!

(is that a rather large flat screen in your workshop?)

waiting for an update...and WOW!!! amazing work.
top notch woodworking skills. keep em coming....:D
--Manny

Brad! Simply Amazing! Our little discussion of the details on the center lion keystone are so completely irrelavent in the context of the entire work...

Looking forward to watching further.
Tony

Brad! Dude! I would say you knocked it out of the park with this but that would not be sufficient to describe the impression I got from your design and work. Oh, I just found my jaw it was on the floor under my desk...

Keep it up, I know what it's like to get burn't out and trying to get motivated again.

Oh, my 2 cents on the open panel. I think it would be pretty cool if you did some sort of lighting effect. I'm not if you are planning rope lighting around the room but lighting to match the color if you are. I think I have seen colored acrylic you can get on line better diffuse the light as it needs to be a soft glow to not over power your design. I'm sure whatever you decide will be stunning and classy. Man I love what your doing.

Bloody hell. Nice work.

Around my friends and family I was starting to feel like the mother of an ugly baby (I was the only one excited about it), granted they are all sick of hearing about theaters, and I might force them to look at what I'm doing every day, but yesterday after i got all the componants in place I called my son down to take a look.. all I got was a sarcastic ....... "OOH AHH!! Still no Movies huh" :confused: ......Takes after his mother

So Gentlemen, I sincerely appreciate the comments, they mean alot coming from this group.:D:D

take your time on the stain selection. Just me but I bet there is something better :confused:

Talk to me brother.. the stain was for color selection only, wanted something towards the red mahogany side. The HVLP sprayer came in yesterday and i went to rockler last week and picked up dewaxed Shellac and several flavors of transtint dies.. but its all new to me. I really think I will try to tone down the actual grain of the oak a little with Tinted wash coats etc.. Im open for nearly all suggestions, particullarly condsidering I anticipate the Lions to be a real PITA to finish because of the really soft wood.

Brad

Brad, Wow dude. With or without elves this is something else. You have great vision and are going to have a very unique look to your theater. Well done!

(is that a rather large flat screen in your workshop?)

Thats where i screwed up, i bought a small refigerator and a large TV for the garage without considering my group of friends. I definately need a larger frig.:)

Brad

Brad! Simply Amazing! Our little discussion of the details on the center lion keystone are so completely irrelavent in the context of the entire work...

Looking forward to watching further.
Tony

Tony, as you know the devils in the details and I appreciate a different perspective. Actually there was something wrong with the keystone, a buddy walked in right off the bat said "why didnt you make the sides the same length"? . There is a very noticble 3/4" difference in the length between the 2 flats on each side of the top. I had looked at that for hrs on end and could nto put my finger on why it seemed wrong:rolleyes:

Oh, my 2 cents on the open panel. I think it would be pretty cool if you did some sort of lighting effect. I'm not if you are planning rope lighting around the room but lighting to match the color if you are. I think I have seen colored acrylic you can get on line better diffuse the light as it needs to be a soft glow to not over power your design. I'm sure whatever you decide will be stunning and classy. Man I love what your doing.

Oman thanks,
I had looked for a thin, opaque sheet of onyx or similar material, That i could back light to give just a "Glow" but could not locate any.

I had thought about some of that stained glass window film over somehting like plexiglass, but everything I saw looked cheap.

You are right though, a soft glow would be perfect in that area.

Brad

Nice work Brad! The detail is stunning!

Talk to me brother.. the stain was for color selection only, wanted something towards the red mahogany side. The HVLP sprayer came in yesterday and i went to rockler last week and picked up dewaxed Shellac and several flavors of transtint dies.. but its all new to me. I really think I will try to tone down the actual grain of the oak a little with Tinted wash coats etc.. Im open for nearly all suggestions, particullarly condsidering I anticipate the Lions to be a real PITA to finish because of the really soft wood.

Brad

I like the idea of washing the grain out, I think it would look great if it almost disappears with maybe some dark dark highlights for depth- hard to describe but a buddy has a bar are like that and looks good. Not knowing the color scheme I was thinking something more deep/rich looking and actually I had thought of a deep Merlot! Sounds like it is going to be a challenge with the soft and hard wood but could think about some cool contrast between the kitty and the stantion. Also much interested in your transtint experience's. I am sure it will look fantastic.

I like the idea of washing the grain out

+1. Oak has a significant grain but the Basswood of the carving does not. This would help to bring it all together.

I had looked for a thin, opaque sheet of onyx or similar material, That i could back light to give just a "Glow" but could not locate any.

Brad, I'm looking at illuminated stone for my bar and possibly columns. My search led me to something called "Stone Ply". They are made from a very thin layer of stone laminated to a lightweight honeycomb backing. http://www.stoneply.com/translucent. I've no idea about price yet.

Cheers.

Holy Crap !!!

Brad that is awesome - This will be one impressive HT.

dear god ! Amazing woodworking skill my friend ! ..... I LOVE the idea with the subs ! Very NEW and differnt wich in my book always means "TITS".. good job man cant wait to see the end product !

-SGT

Ok, you have set the bar for craftsmanship on this build. Wow, amazing details! I cant wait to see it all stained and finished.

What color stain are you going with?

Brad,

I absolutely love the lions and the whole front wall. Don't fret over the lions being softer wood. I know the oak is easier to get an even color with, but the lions will come out great. Just remember not to sand them too much with a fine grain paper before staining. It will make it harder to stain.

Good luck and can't wait for more pics!

Thanks again everyone...

Jeff, I really dont have a color scheme picked yet, the plan is for a substantial amount of wood, Im shooting for a "Feel" of something like a cross between an old library and a movie palace from the 40's.

Heres a couple of theaters that have been somewhat inspirational.

One of DE designs:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=154503&d=1254839185

Another theater posted by one of the members
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17629370#post17629370

I think your exactly right. I had been telling myself that if i couldnt get the lions to match the oak then I would purposefully finish them with a contrasting but complimentary finish. Lots of homework still to do on the finishing before tackling the lions.

Moggie thanks for the link.. did a little more research and found these guys as a possible source for the onyx http://www.gpidesign.com/products.aspx also, but im really waffeling on what to do here.. may just stick with panel/raised panel inserts.. i know thats the safe approach. Theres a fine line between really cool and toooo much that I dont want to cross.

Kezug Ill be shooting for a darker red mahoganyish type finish, something with a Garnett or Merlot type tint as Jeff mentioned.

Brad

Oman thanks,
I had looked for a thin, opaque sheet of onyx or similar material, That i could back light to give just a "Glow" but could not locate any.

I had thought about some of that stained glass window film over somehting like plexiglass, but everything I saw looked cheap.

You are right though, a soft glow would be perfect in that area.

Brad


Hey Brad, congrats on your inspired build, it is impressive indeed. Can I ask where you acquired your woodworking skills?

More on point to your quote above, in scouring for ideas for my upcoming theater, I stumbled upon a site that makes colored/textured acrylics: http://www.acrilex.com/selector.cfm. It may suit your needs. My thought was to use it as a bar surface which would be backlit. They have multiple textures, colors, patterns and thickness options.

I was thinking for the look you were trying to achieve, a pearlescent/opaque/or marble pattern, amber or rust-orange in color would look really good. (Backlit of course) Anyway it is just a suggestion.

If you did decide to go this route, you may have to opt for a thicker acrylic, use some form of a perimeter gasket, and possibly even a small internal frame (inside the column/space). This would be in order to reduce any possible chance of flexion and rattling that the panels would indubitably face from the prodigious output from your subs/speakers. ;)

Keep up the great work, I will be following intently.

JR

JR.. Thank you,

Oman had also mentioned acrylic, but everything i had seen prior to you posting the link to acrilex had been mostly clears and solid color with various textures available. It appears that a large customer base for acrylic's products are lighting manufacturers so it seemed a perfect match for this application.

On the acrylic site I found these two possible options that appealed to me.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/Acrylic-1.jpg

I really like the tortoise as a possiblity to compliment the darker wood finish, Without a severe contrast. So I called them this morning...

Here's the rub .. Minimum order is 3 sheets @ > $420 per sheet:(

Brad

Here's the rub .. Minimum order is 3 sheets @ > $420 per sheet:(

Brad

Yeow! :eek:

That is a steep penalty indeed, I guess I'll have to research some alternative options/sources.

JR

As nice as this is it would almost be worth the extra time and money to build another lion head to test the stain on.

http://www.professionalplastics.com/PLEXIGLASS-ACRYLICSHEET-EXTRUDED

Here is a reasonable source for acrylic sheets. They are not marbled like the sample you show above Brad, but solid colors. You can see their color chart and perhaps buy something solid and add the look you want by using one step poly to give it the marbled effect.

Actually, you are able to buy small pieces of acrylic (Clear) from Lowes. You can see if the one step would work out with acrylic. May not work, but just a thought of what you may try.

http://www.professionalplastics.com/PLEXIGLASS-ACRYLICSHEET-EXTRUDED

Here is a reasonable source for acrylic sheets. They are not marbled like the sample you show above Brad, but solid colors. You can see their color chart and perhaps buy something solid and add the look you want by using one step poly to give it the marbled effect.



Good find oman. Actually, they do have designer styles too! Go to "Sheets" at the top tab, then "Acrylic Sheet-Decorative Styles" on the drop down menu. This is much more reasonable. :)

JR

Way to dig a little further jfunk!!

There you go brad we hopefully cut the cost for you between 1/5th to 1/6th.

As nice as this is it would almost be worth the extra time and money to build another lion head to test the stain on.

I have some various pcs of white wood I can try to develop a stain schedule on, before attempting the real thing...

I know what you mean though.. I can scrap wood faster than a herd of Beaver:cool:

Brad

Oman / Jfunk / Moggie everyone.. Thanks for bouncing around ideas on the panels, it is greatly appreciated.

Funny how sometimes on these type of projects you can end up with a different solution than you originally intended.

So I followed the link to Professional Plastics yesterday, on the page for the decorative sheets, there was a style called "Stained Glass". So this sent me off on a stained glass tangent.. searching the internet for stained glass.. I discovered that the oldest manufacturer of stained glass is located < an hr from my house in Kokomo Indiana. Tiffany company buys some of their raw products from this company..

Kokomo Opalescent Glass, http://kog.com/, manufactures over 22,000 different colors textures etc of opalescent and cathedral stained glass. To top this off, when I called to see if they sold to the public, they told me a local glass company, 10 minutes from my house, stocks many of the various colors.

They had so many colors and styles i had trouble choosing..

Now the really fun part is that I got 2 pcs cut to size for < $35 total...Gitty up!!!!:D

For this price I can afford to change if i decide I want a different color after staining.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00867.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00872.jpg


I threw together a backing board with some aluminum foil as a reflector real quick and mounted a rope light I had around..

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00865.jpg

Slipped it in the frame and ... Badda Boom....
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00869.jpg

I need to adjust the rope to even out the lighting a little and improve the reflector some, but overall I'm very pleased, it is very, very close to the look I originally envisioned.

MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!!!!!

Brad

Wow, very impressive detail, I'm subbing !

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeettttttt!!!

Loving it!! Excellent, low cost solution! I gotta say that looks killer and like you said you can easily swap it if need be. In fact for that price you can change with the seasons:D

Glad that link played a small part. Now you'll have to excuse me, I have to get my jaw again...:p

Brad - That is going to look pretty darn nice. Creative idea with the glass. And I totally get how designs evolve when you run into a snag sourcing exactly what you envisioned. It's the same thing I hit with the pounded copper soffets i was hoping to build.

Well Done Brad! That detail puts it over the top!

Brad, very nice. You'll be even happier when I tell you that the backlit stone panels are even more than the acrylic! How thick is the glass and is it available tempered? (thinking of my bar top).

Brad,

That looks awesome!!! I'm really enjoying your build. Those freaking lions are cool alone, forget the glass part. Awesome. Period.

Brad,

Congrats on the stained glass find - The look is awesome!!

Good show Brad! I'm glad you found an very affordable alternative. The look you have achieved is about spot on to what I was envisioning.
It looks terrific.

JR

Brad, very nice. You'll be even happier when I tell you that the backlit stone panels are even more than the acrylic! How thick is the glass and is it available tempered? (thinking of my bar top).

No, not tempered, that was the first thing I asked also. I put a Mic on it, its .112, so just shy of an 1/8.

Although the stained glass is not suitable as a stand alone top, what if it was supported under a piece of tempered clear? The backlighting may give a similar effect.. maybe? and as mentioned, the stained glass is cheap enough you could change colors/designs on a whim. -just thinkin outloud.

Brad

"Christmas is just like any day at the office? You do all the work and the fat guy with the suit gets all the credit" :D

Wow! I love what you've done. I'm filing this in the idea box...

Holey Crap... Just went back and read the whole thred. I haven't stopped by since you were making the speaker thingies...:o

Someone mentions an IB chamber and you start ripping out framming. Wood work starts and you turn into Jesus of Nazareth.

I am afraid to mention a transporter instead of the stairwell as you may well pull it off.

Amazing work man!!!

Are you going to incorporate some sort of stage into your design ? Doesn't look like you are with the way you have the IB door setup

Brad,

Wow, may you never go back to work when you finish this build! Very impressive.

Wow! I love what you've done. I'm filing this in the idea box...

Over the last several years I've spent an extensive amount of time in Asia for work, and have really come to appreciate the simplistic "Zen" type of atmosphere your shooting for in your build. I've followed your thread since day one, and truly understand the difficulty of developing a functioning design that satisfies a "Vision".

Holey Crap... Just went back and read the whole thred. I haven't stopped by since you were making the speaker thingies...:o

Someone mentions an IB chamber and you start ripping out framming. Wood work starts and you turn into Jesus of Nazareth.

I am afraid to mention a transporter instead of the stairwell as you may well pull it off.

Amazing work man!!!

Drew, Thanks for the post, a little chuckle goes great with sunday morning coffee..

Regarding the transporter.. its on the list right behind the hollodeck;)

Are you going to incorporate some sort of stage into your design ? Doesn't look like you are with the way you have the IB door setup

Scott.. I use the term "Plan" loosely... but the plan is for an eliptical stage. Same arc as the arch but horizontal. ( I saved the pieces the arch was cut from so I already have the elliptical tops for the stage :D)

Teh stage will stop at the screen wall. The screen wall will be 2' from the rear wall. So ill have 2' to remove the access panel on the IB chamber if needed.

I'll wall mount the 3 KL650's on the wall (like sandmans) with the center above the access door and the R&L's flanking and slightly higher than the manifold openings.

Again the "Plan" is to stuff the riser with insulation, leaving the backside at the screen wall open (or some strategically placed openings) to serve as an additional base trap.

Hope that makes sense.. Its all fly by wire for me though with the design at this point so everything is subject to change.

Brad

:p I know what you mean I did the same thing, build as you go and with so many great Idea's coming from the AVS theater construction community its hard to plan anything :rolleyes:

Once again, pursuit of the theater is sending me off on a tangent to tackle a new skill.

Acheiving a furniture quality finish with mixed woods posed a challenge I flelt could only be overcome by spraying. Spraying opens up several finishing avenues beyond the typical Brush/Wipe stain and Poly, Hopefully taking my DIY projects to the next level.

The tools:
HVLP Sprayers
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/011.jpg

New Dryer/Filter hooked up
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/012.jpg

However winter time in Indiana poses its own challenges to spraying when your shop is attached to the house. I needed to eliminate overspray and try to minimize the toxic fumes.

So without futher ado...For those die hard fans of the Cult Classic, "Ghetto Booth", from the critically acllaimed (and truly visionary) producer JeffC..
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17703142#post17703142

We are happy to bring you: "Ghetto Booth II: The Boy in the Bubble"

The Frame: 6x12
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00874.jpg

The Fresh Air Injection / Filtration system sub assembly:
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00876.jpg

The power supply Module:
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00877.jpg

Top view of Spray booth:
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00881.jpg

Luminaries and Curtains attached:
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00884.jpg

Necessary design clearences for vehicle portal acheived:
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00885-1.jpg

TTL Cost (not including some materials I had lying around) ~ $100

There are a few odds and ends that need addressed to better seal the booth (chases stamped in the studs in middle section).

I am also building a filtered exhaust system, that will exhaust from the bottom of the booth, to remove overspray and hopefully keep the toxic fumes at a level that wont cause a divorce or let me blow myself up. The effectiveness of these efforts are yet to be tested, (although I have tested the Divorce limits thing many times over the years) and a respirator is still on the list of needed items.

The spray booth remained somewhat light weight at probably 100-120lbs ttl. I wanted to build something in such a way that I could have access to it over several months without loosing 1/2 the floorspace in my shop. The curtains can be rolled up or down in a matter of minutes.

Fingers crossed' Hope it works!

Happy New Year All...

Brad

Luminaries and Curtains...this looks like a writeup for HGTV. :D

Looking forward to seeing how it works out for you. Good Job!

That is no ghetto booth! :eek: I don't see any duct tape! :D

That's something else. I found myself thinking of an old Paul Simon song "Boy in the bubble and the baby with the baboon heart." But that was probably just me.

Very nice...I have been eyeing a set like that for a project I have been avoiding for a while (due to not using brushes or rollers).....Sweet...

As Lord Sedious would say, "Your paint both looks FULLY OPERATIONAL!" Good job.

Tom A.. Im about 80-90% confident on catching the overspray the Fumes may be a different story.

In2... Spoken like a true purist..:D

Dave... Paul Simon was one of the greates song writers of our time... IMHO

DavidinCT... Definately the finish has always been my weak point also.. hopefully I'll level the playing field with spraying.

kjlewie... Yea.. but didnt he also say "kill em, kill em all"?:)




All right.. dont laugh guys.. I scabbed this together yesterday from scraps and stuff lying around from the house build.. I had the inline from a previous endeavour.. only had to buy the filters and one of the boots to complete the ...

Triple filtered exhaust module:

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00889.jpg

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00890.jpg

It actually seems to draw really well.. I dont know if it will pull enough to keep the fumes down but I fell pretty good about being able to capture the over spray.. I'll place it on the ground to draw from the bottom of the booth and run the exhause outside through a 6" flex.

we shall see..

Brad

Very nice! Love the idea above the garage door! I was thinking about V2 and making a collapsible one but I am using your idea of a permanently fixed overhead solution. The box fan filter does a surprisingly good job. Actually used this mooring to catch some slight over spray from a spray can :cool:

Once again you raised the bar!

Good god man, you are suppose to be building a theater not a spray booth :p

It reminds me of quite a few years ago when I decided to restore and respray an old car of mine and lined and (entire) garage with plastic, built vents, even made a water curtain to both pull over spray and dust out of the air. I just looked at an old picture and realized that I completely under built the exhaust system because all I could see in the picture was a vague outline of a person in the fog! The bottom line is that you need a rapid air exchange to keep the air completely clean.

Looking forward to the results...

BTW I good tip is to damp down the floor before you spray to avoid blowing dust up into your work.

I'm been following your thread since it started and I appreciate the time it takes to post your progress on a regular basis. I noticed one thing with your ingenious paint booth that could be a serious concern. I recall from my shop days in high school the finish room was outfitted with special electrical outlets and light fixtures to avoid explosions when using oil based finishes in an enclosed space. I'm no expert but it looks like the two fluorescent lights in your booth are garden variety fixtures not designed for paint booth applications (e.g. exposed bulbs). The fan motor might also be a source of ignition. If you plan to use water based finishes or have addressed the risk of explosion excuse my post.

Brad, don't take this the wrong way or nothing. You are like an evil Genious!!! I love it! Aside with the concerns that wjr has posted pure brilliance.

KNKKNK,

I might have been able to save you some time depending on where you live in Indiana. I run a auto repair facility with 4 spray booths.

wjr is correct is his concerns. What is the probability in anything happening. That depends on the equipement used and how saturated the area will be with the fumes. I can tell you right now that none of your equipement is suited for this application and for me to recommend using it. Especially on how small the booth is. It looks like your filter motor is after the filters which helps some and if you were going to go through with it I would say to put some plexi over the lighting. If you did that I would feel much more comfortable running that booth although I would make sure to not have too much chemicals in the air at once.

Oman.. too funny dude:D

Adam, Wjr... Thanks guys, excellant observations, you are 100% correct.. the booth would be dangerous to use spraying solvent based materials.. the 2most common solvents used to mix/spray wood finishes are denatured alcohol and lacquer thinner. Both have very low flash points (below room temp) and lower end flammable ranges around ~1%-3%.

I had joked in earlier posts about "blowing myself up" but am honestly trying to avoid this rather troublesome prospect.:eek:

The lighting would be easily overcome buy using fixutures designed for drop ceilings with the plexi cover seperating the ignition source from the interior of the booth. However the blower i currently have hooked up is of greater concern to me because the motor is inline with the exhasut flow. I'm trying to locate a cost effective replacement, because I do eventually want to use the solvent based mixes. They have several advantages over the water based such as faster drying times and they are non grain raising.

In the meanwhile I will stick with water based finishes and hope the booth protects the shop/house from overspray, which I have a fairly high confidence level.

Thats one of the beautiful things about AVS, there i a great cross section of professionals that frequent the forum and the advice can not only save someone time and money but possibly lives as well.

Again, i sincerely appreciate your feedback. If I had to pick one person I know that has the best chance of making the Darwins award list it will be me:cool:

Brad

To make you feel any better I have seen alot worse. People will paint an entire car in their garage with all the fixtures going and a simple fan doing the exhaust. If your interested and live close to the Fort Wayne area I could let you use the pro booths if you find it easier for you. I sprayed our new fish tank stand in it and it was great. Not only does the fumes get taken out but with the bake cycles it cured it within 15 minutes. Of course that was waterborne paint but it gets it up to about 160 degrees.

I'm glad to hear you're going to use water based finishes for now and make changes to your paint booth so it will be safe for solvent based finishes. Besides, I'm like a lot of folks here on the forum who live vicariously through talented people like you who are building amazing home theaters. We want to see the finished project and dream about someday building our own theaters. So, there is no need for natural selection to get in the way of home entertainment! :D Enjoy your project!

DriCore down..

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00907.jpg

Ended up going with the more expensive DriCore over the platoon not only because of reduce height loss ... but Honestly I shudder at the thought of having to carry full size sheets of anything down to the basement now.:(

And the science experiment continues...

As mentioned Previously, I'm playing with the transtint dyes and mixing my own schellac in various cuts for wash coats and tinting coats on different woods.. I'm also doing glazing for the first time.

Trying to develop a finishing schedule that will look good on some of the more troublesome "blotch" prone woods.
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00908.jpg
Im leaning towards a finish with alot of red in it. Still a learning curve.. But I can see the potential in the dyes.. neat, neat stuff.

Brad

Hey Brad, Nice clean floor *and* clean table top -- I bet they don't stay that way long ;)

As you know I went the DriCore route too but had a few issues with a spongy feel in a couple of spots where I obviously didn't shim perfectly. How did yours turn out, did you use tapcons to hold it down anywhere?

Actually Moggie.. I didnt need to use a single shim, my floor was amazingly flat in that area.. Im still debating if ill add any tapcons around the perimeter.. my only concern would be any expansion causing buckling.. so if i do I'll be sure to only due every 3-4 panel and make sure not to put one on each end of the same row.

This was my first time using the actual Dri Core. I had some experience on the floors using both the rigid foam and Delta FL in the past with sheeting,, but the dri core was so easy I felt like I was cheating or something:cool:

Brad

Ain't nothing wrong with cheating as long as it turns out. Have to take advantage of those few times when it does.

I have been following your thread and have been itching to pull the trigger on paint sprayers. I have a large compressor so the investment wouldn't be that bad. Maybe come Spring.

It has to feel good to have that Dricore down. Keep it going.

Actually Moggie.. I didnt need to use a single shim, my floor was amazingly flat in that area.. Im still debating if ill add any tapcons around the perimeter.. my only concern would be any expansion causing buckling.. so if i do I'll be sure to only due every 3-4 panel and make sure not to put one on each end of the same row.

This was my first time using the actual Dri Core. I had some experience on the floors using both the rigid foam and Delta FL in the past with sheeting,, but the dri core was so easy I felt like I was cheating or something:cool:

Brad

Lookin good man. I used Dricore as well, very easy. The mfgr does recommend tapcons every 3-4 panels. I did that and have had no problems with buckling... I think they are intended just to make sure the panels don't try to shift and separate over time. You lucky dog on the flat floor... shimming is a pain, and you definitely find out how uneven your floor is (mine about 3/4 inch from one cornter of the room to the other :eek:, ~30ft).

Im still debating if ill add any tapcons around the perimeter.. my only concern would be any expansion causing buckling.. so if i do I'll be sure to only due every 3-4 panel and make sure not to put one on each end of the same row.

Another reason to use a couple of tapcons around the perimeter (and 1 in the center) is if you plan on having carpet installed with a power stretcher or similar. The install process can shift and buckle the panels, so the tapcons help keep things where they belong.

Everything is looking great, keep up the good work!

Another reason to use a couple of tapcons around the perimeter (and 1 in the center) is if you plan on having carpet installed with a power stretcher or similar. The install process can shift and buckle the panels, so the tapcons help keep things where they belong.

Everything is looking great, keep up the good work!

Excellent Point!!!! I had not even considered this.. I wonderd why the instructions wanted it installed as a floating floor with the 1/4" gap, then recommeded tapconning every 3-4th one down..Now I get it..DOH!! *light slap of palm to forehead*

Thanks
Brad

I have been following your thread and have been itching to pull the trigger on paint sprayers. I have a large compressor so the investment wouldn't be that bad. Maybe come Spring.


RPH.

I fired up the sprayer for the first time this weekend.. (still in learning curve for stain schedule) and if made one recommendation, I would recommend that regardless of the HVLP sprayer you decide on, I would make sure you can get an adaptor (for the gun you choose)that works with one of the disposal cup systems.. IE.. Devilbiss Dekups system or the 3Mpps system.

I dont know if you've seen these, but it was new to me. I went with the Dekups system and for the weekend warrior its gonna be tought to beat and it makes clean up a breeze.

It is an interchangeable disposal cup system. The cups come in 3 different sizes 9,24 and 32 OZ.

Here you can see the frame and lid on the far right and left sides.
In the middle you have a plug, lid and liner.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00918.jpg

This shows the cup on the gun with the adaptor..
its like a babys bottle also, as you use it the liner collapses..

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00913.jpg

When you done you just throw the liner and lid in the trash..

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00920.jpg

One of the cool things is you can have a couple of different frames ready to go.. I was playing with some Dyes and swithched to some clears in about 1min.. just twisted a new frame/cup on the gun.. a few squirts to clear the gun of the previous dye and I was off and running on the clear..

Same thing with the clean up.. had a frame/cup with cleaner ready to go and just switched to clean the gun out... I cant imagine they could have made this any eaiser..

I think the lid/liners end up costing about ~ .50-.75 for the set


Brad

P.S. dont be afraid of a little duct tape paint booth ;)

Those front pillars you have made with the lions are awesome. I can't wait to see the finished product. I will throw in a caution to them though. I had pillars built on the sides of my screen that ended up being white and they were a huge distraction when playing a movie and I ended up hating them. I hope you have taken into consideration the glare from these units.

BTW. I love the thread name. I have run into the same arguments with my wife. LOL "It's always your theater and nothing with my craft room." Well I got her craft room done and bought her special cabinets, got her happy, and now I have all of my theater stuff in her craft room making it unusable. Now shes angry again. LOL

Those front pillars you have made with the lions are awesome. I can't wait to see the finished product. I will throw in a caution to them though. I had pillars built on the sides of my screen that ended up being white and they were a huge distraction when playing a movie and I ended up hating them. I hope you have taken into consideration the glare from these units.

BTW. I love the thread name. I have run into the same arguments with my wife. LOL "It's always your theater and nothing with my craft room." Well I got her craft room done and bought her special cabinets, got her happy, and now I have all of my theater stuff in her craft room making it unusable. Now shes angry again. LOL

I bought my wife a new desk for her craft area for her birthday (Last September), set it up for her and she went nuts getting organizers and everything for the area. She has yet to use it. 4 months and nothing. :mad: All I heard was how nice it would be to have a place to scrapbook where she could have her own space and not have to worry about cleaning it up after 10 minutes. Blah, blah, blah.

It's scary how similar most of the people on here are with their relationships with their wifes. I think it's hilarious. I read people telling stories and I can visualize my wifes lips moving.:rolleyes:

RPH.

I fired up the sprayer for the first time this weekend.. (still in learning curve for stain schedule) and if made one recommendation, I would recommend that regardless of the HVLP sprayer you decide on, I would make sure you can get an adaptor (for the gun you choose)that works with one of the disposal cup systems.. IE.. Devilbiss Dekups system or the 3Mpps system.

I dont know if you've seen these, but it was new to me. I went with the Dekups system and for the weekend warrior its gonna be tought to beat and it makes clean up a breeze.

It is an interchangeable disposal cup system. The cups come in 3 different sizes 9,24 and 32 OZ.

One of the issues I was having was the concern with clean up. I borrowed a friends "professional" paint sprayer and clean up was a pain.

One last question. Which filter/dryer is that and where did you get it. I looked briefly at the big box stores but just glanced at them.

I looked into HVLP systems before for stain and paint but for what I'm doing just could not justify the cost. For your project I don't think you could not justify it. I could not imagine not having a sprayer available to use in your build.

It is all coming together and looks fantastic. The lions are topnotch and are completly awesome. I had to chuckle regarding your sons comment about no movies yet. I too get comments from the family about the progress (or lack there of) in the theater room. It has lessened since the completion of the kids room, but I still get that stray comment or two.

Keep your head down and moving forward my friend, you'll get there and have a fantastic theater to show for it too!

Regards,

RTROSE

Another reason to use a couple of tapcons around the perimeter (and 1 in the center) is if you plan on having carpet installed with a power stretcher or similar. The install process can shift and buckle the panels, so the tapcons help keep things where they belong.

Everything is looking great, keep up the good work!

Looking good Brad. If you have a big ole, heavy riser at one end and a stage at the other, you may be able to put just the 1 tapcon in the center.

Those front pillars you have made with the lions are awesome. I can't wait to see the finished product. I will throw in a caution to them though. I had pillars built on the sides of my screen that ended up being white and they were a huge distraction when playing a movie and I ended up hating them. I hope you have taken into consideration the glare from these units.



Adam.. Thanks, I hopin it will be ok, there are alot of professionally designed theaters using colums on/around the proscenium. Mine will be finished in very "dark" reddish / reddish mahogany color.. The precat lacquer (shhh!!.. ) I got for topcoat is a "dull hand rubbed finish" so less sheen then satin even. I dont expect a lot of reflections, although I dont expect them to completely dissapear with the lights out either. Always one compromise or another when building a world class craft room...;)

Brad

Looking good Brad. If you have a big ole, heavy riser at one end and a stage at the other, you may be able to put just the 1 tapcon in the center.

There in lies the rub.. Im 80% leaning towards the stage, and 80% aganist the riser.. My room depth pretty much eliminates a full size second row.. (ie berkline) with the path I have taken so far with screen size, seating location distance etc.. if i do anything in the rear I'tll probably/maybe/possibly/could be a bar. As you can tell I'm a very decisive person:cool:

Brad

One of the issues I was having was the concern with clean up. I borrowed a friends "professional" paint sprayer and clean up was a pain.

One last question. Which filter/dryer is that and where did you get it. I looked briefly at the big box stores but just glanced at them.

I bought everything through TCP global
http://www.tcpglobal.com/
they also have an EBAY store that sometimes has better prices.
Service was very good.

I hear you on the clean up, particullarly if your talking about an airless spray system.. i have one and I never use it unless im spraying 10 gal at a time..I despise having to clean the thing.

The disposal cups on the HVLP is the only way to go now.. IMHO

Brad

I looked into HVLP systems before for stain and paint but for what I'm doing just could not justify the cost. For your project I don't think you could not justify it. I could not imagine not having a sprayer available to use in your build.

It is all coming together and looks fantastic. The lions are topnotch and are completly awesome. I had to chuckle regarding your sons comment about no movies yet. I too get comments from the family about the progress (or lack there of) in the theater room. It has lessened since the completion of the kids room, but I still get that stray comment or two.

Keep your head down and moving forward my friend, you'll get there and have a fantastic theater to show for it too!

Regards,

RTROSE

RT ... Thanks, I have a confession to make.. you were one of the first ones to respond when I found AVS and I started a build thread.. I remember at that time looking at your build thread, and many of the others on here, and thinking to myself.. alot of those guys have been working on their rooms for a year or longer and are barely at the 1/2 way point, whatta they been doin?... "WELL SHUT MY MOUTH"... Nearly a year later and I have become "one of those guys"...:D

Brad

Oman.. too funny dude:D

I'm trying to locate a cost effective replacement, because I do eventually want to use the solvent based mixes. They have several advantages over the water based such as faster drying times and they are non grain raising.

In the meanwhile I will stick with water based finishes and hope the booth protects the shop/house from overspray, which I have a fairly high confidence level.

Brad

Do you have much experience with modern waterborne wood finishes? I finish 3-4 furniture projects a year plus many small items, and use pretty much nothing but waterborne products now. The best of the modern waterborne finishes are more durable (for interior use) than any solvent-based finish I have ever used (with the possible exception of solvent based two-part catalyzed conversion varnish, which I never tried). They are also ready to recoat and are dry to the touch faster than any solvent-based alkyd varnish. Obviously, safety is much better and cleanup is easy using warm water.

It is true that most waterborne topcoats take a week or so to fully cure and reach their maximum hardness. However, the piece will normally be dry to the touch in an hour and can be handled without worries within 2-3 hours. In a pinch, I have put stuff into use after letting it dry overnight, although I would never do that with high-traffic furniture like a desk or dining table.

The best modern waterborne finishes also spray extremely well. They are normally formulated for spraying, which means you can pour from the can to the sprayer without adjusting the viscosity. The downside of this, of course, is that the stuff formulated for spraying is almost impossible to apply successfully with a brush. There are work-arounds for this, though.

You can even get high-quality shellac in a waterbased suspension that has no alcohol or other solvent: http://www.targetcoatings.com/shop/products/UltraSeal_WB_Shellac_Sealer_Amber-169-10.html

The biggest disadvantage I have found with using waterborne products is that you probably can't walk into a brick and mortar store and buy what you need. If you can plan ahead, though, everything is readily available via the internet.

Here are links to a couple of good products. I don't work for any associated company and I don't even own stock in the company; I'm just a happy consumer.

This one is especially good for darker wood finishes because it has the amber tone of a traditional solvent based alkyd varnish: http://www.targetcoatings.com/shop/products/EM2000wvx_WB_Alkyd_Varnish_Satin_1Gal-286-34.html[url]

This one is very durable and scratch resistant:
[url]http://www.targetcoatings.com/shop/products/SuperClear_9000_Polyurethane_Satin_1_Gal-148-25.html

If you need to buy at a local brick and mortar and you have a Woodcraft store in your area, I also like this topcoat: http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2000756/2154/HP-Polyurethane-Satin--Quart.aspx

I believe you also mentioned a conversion varnish. For your sake and your family's, I hope you don't have a solvent based product. As has already been pointed out, essentially every electrical product you have shown for use in your spray booth is a potential source of ignition. If you can spray outdoors, go for it. If you have to spray inside, you either need spark-arrested lights and fans or waterborne finishes.

Good luck with whatever you decide to use!

There in lies the rub.. Im 80% leaning towards the stage, and 80% aganist the riser.. My room depth pretty much eliminates a full size second row.. (ie berkline) with the path I have taken so far with screen size, seating location distance etc.. if i do anything in the rear I'tll probably/maybe/possibly/could be a bar. As you can tell I'm a very decisive person:cool:

Brad

Brad, you sound exactly like me. I enough room for a second row, just not with recliners. So, as of now (over 1 year "done") no second row. I do have a stage and I'm very happy I have it. That's where my sub sits and the bass has been awesome in my HT.

Build the stage, watch some movies and then decide on the riser.

I had joked in earlier posts about "blowing myself up" but am honestly trying to avoid this rather troublesome prospect.:eek:

The lighting would be easily overcome buy using fixutures designed for drop ceilings with the plexi cover seperating the ignition source from the interior of the booth. However the blower i currently have hooked up is of greater concern to me because the motor is inline with the exhasut flow. I'm trying to locate a cost effective replacement

Brad

The low-tech, low-cost approach to an exhaust fan would be to rig up a simple fan driven by a belt from a motor that sits outside of the air flow. This obviously is not as good as an explosion-proof fan, but it's a huge improvement from a direct-drive fan with a motor sparking away as the air and fumes flow over it.

I still think waterborne finishes are a better way of dealing with this risk, though ...

Dwight... Thank you for your posts, and thanks for the links to the target coatings products.. I had not seen that brand before particularly the water based shellac, I had been mixing my own from flakes.

You are absolutely correct, and spot on, water based products have come a long way over the years. Many of the large coating manufacturers continue to refine these products because the belief (truth)is that the EPA will eventually eliminate solvent based products.

I've actually used waterborne products quite frequently in the past, particularly when you have no choice but to work on an item inside, such as finishing floors /stairs /fireplaces etc.. and agree that some of the water based poly finishes are extremely durable.

One thing I have truly come to appreciate over the years is that Finishing is a science in itself, and I find it to be far more difficult than the actual woodworking. The general finishes products have probably been my favorite in the past particularly their Gel stains. People who continue to use the min wax type products from the big box stores really do not know what they are missing as far as availability of "Better" products. Fortunately I have both a Rockler and Woodcraft ~ 30 min from my house.. and a professional Sherwin Williams about 10min from home. SW produces a fantastic line of water based products and being able to walk into the store and talk to Knowledgeable professionals is a huge + . However there are still areas where I have not found suitable alternatives with water based products.. Wash coats for example.. i have not found a water based product that doesn't raise the grain at least some, and on intricate pcs, such as the carved lions or stacked trim, I do not want the "Fuzzies" and I really like to eliminate the need for between coat sanding as much as possible, and Shellac in Denatured Alcohol seems to be the ticket. IMHO although some of the WB products are "fast" drying, fast is relative, and I still believe that a solvent based precat lacquer would still offer less down time for multiple coats, sanding time etc .. because the solvents flash off so quick. But with that said, I have not tried many of the WB products available particullarly searching for a suitable replacment to solvent based lacquer.

Regarding the safety aspects of using / spraying solvent based products, as is the case with handling any type of Chemical or flammable substances. I firmly believe education is the first step to mitigating any associated risk. A true understanding of the products you are using, and personally understanding the reason for the established safety equipment/procedures is paramount, Please dont think I am debating the importance or validity of the best known practices, but I do enjoy a general discussion, particularly to test my logic, or the lack thereof.:o

If we look at the two main chemicals used , Denatured alcohol and Lacquer, they have lower explosion limits of 3% and 1%, and Upper explosive limits of 19% and 36% respectively. As you know, above or below these limits an explosion will not happen because the air fuel mixture is either too lean or too rich, with the midpoint of the limits being "Ideal" for an ignition source. If allowing chemical concentrations to reach this equilibrium even static electricity becomes a concern .

So in the case of Explosions the risk can easily be mitigated through calculations for ventilation/air exchange volumes for air flow and the volume of chemicals in suspension at an given moment to the total volume of the area. So does operating with these solvents below the LEL mean they are safe? No! For work places OSHA has established limits at 10% of the LEL with other limitations / considerations regarding Personal exposure limits.

If we examine the OSHA workplace requirements for the equipment, particularly "Explosion" proof fans, and what it means. Many fans are inherently "Explosion" /spark resistant, TENC (Totally Enclosed, Non Cooled) motor s and Induction motors are inherently explosion causing/spark-proof. But even these fans can spark during operations, say if a bearing froze for example, or non alloy blade hit the shroud. For a fan to be "Explosion Proof" it requires a certification from the National Fire Protection Association and other requirements such as bronze non-sparking bearings and aluminum blades, which is a big reason the certification makes the fan cost 4x more than a typical exhaust fan. My understanding is that Explosion Proof means that if the motor catches fire or does explode, it does not allow hot gases/sparks to escape the housing that could ignite a fuel source/exhaust in the airstream. However if operating below the LEL's for the chemicals the risk of explosion has already been mitigated. The real risk, IMHO, of operating open motor fans is more of a fire risk as compounds, overspray etc.. build up on the motor core/brushes etc.

Not to get off topic, however these same safety considerations are important for anyone handling and storing chemicals in their residence, many, many, of the typical household Items are as dangerous or more so, then the solvents for finishing if handled incorrectly. Fingernail polish remover (acetone), rubbing alcohol, both 2% LEL, hairspray, gasoline etc.. the list is long.. granted we are not talking about atomizing these in the same volumes as spraying, however the fire/injury risk without proper precautions is just as real, if not more so then the Specialty chemicals such as lacquer thinner because of the use by the general public, availability for kids etc.. Personally I have shown my kids the fire hazards associated with many of the products in the home and hope that more people take the time to do so.

Sorry for the long winded post, but as mentioned previously I do enjoy a discussion, and I believe anything can be accomplished safely if properly educated. I would honestly appreciate any additional reviews of products you use, since we are all searching for better ways to Skin the Cat, and without a doubt the WB products are the future.

Brad

Where do you buy your wood supplies at? And how much does KNKKNK Designs charge for wood work?:D

Where do you buy your wood supplies at? And how much does KNKKNK Designs charge for wood work?:D

I buy anywhere its on sale.. Check your local mill works, many times thier price for Trim etc.. will be better than the BB stores.

Charge? LOL.. you dont want to know.. I cant even affort it myself..;)

Fortunately I have both a Rockler and Woodcraft ~ 30 min from my house..


Lucky Dog!

better ways to Skin the Cat,

Lucky Dog skinning the Cat....our should we say not such a lucky dog skinning a fuzzy Lion.

Geesh didn't mean to kill the thread! So where is the updates damn it! Really hope all is OK

Happy New Year ..Year of the TIGER..

After a month of eating fish heads and chicken feet, and drinking waaay tooo much Tsingtao and Tiger.. I have returned with a craving for Pizza..

Welcome back. Now get to work. LOL

Happy New Year ..Year of the TIGER..

After a month of eating fish heads and chicken feet, and drinking waaay tooo much Tsingtao and Tiger.. I have returned with a craving for Pizza..

Bout damn time! Welcome back!

Just over a month ago I had neither the skills nor the tools to spray a finish on wood.... Now I have the tools:cool:

I spent the better part of a month in asia, and all last week trying to normalize a sleep pattern, so it took a couple of beers to get back in the swing of things.

Before I left, I had generated one of the largest, most colorful piles of scrap lumber in Indiana, trying to determine a finish schedule for the Lions, and get a feel for spraying.

I had decided on something in the very dark red range and shooting for an antique like finish.

The carvings are machine cut from some type of (really Crappy) white wood, with far too many glue joints and lines....each lion consists of 3 blocks glued together and each block is made of ~ 1 1/2" laminated pcs..

I did not use any type of conventional stain or gel in the process.

I decided to use transtint wood dye in denatured alchoal for the first coat, then I mixed the dye with schellac and sprayed on several light coats for the tinting...

Disregard, the "Sheen" the schellac is much shinnier then the finish coat will be.. I have what is called a "hand rubbed effect" lacquer for the finish coat, but this shows the color/tint I ended up with..

Every monitor shows color a little different, so these pictures look the best viewed on a little monitor from across the room...:rolleyes:

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00946.jpg

The tinting resulted in an interesting effect.. at angles the finish appears darker (almost BLack), while straight on you can see some of the grain and color, in a way this helps to highlight the carvings.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00965.jpg

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00958.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/DSC00968.jpg


.... overall I'm telling myself in the scheme of things they'll be fine, and that I'm pleased with the result so far, considering how difficult this piece/wood was to work with.

Now I'll scuff the tint coats and spray the finish.. It'll be interesting to see how the overall appearance changes when I spray the "Dull rubbed" finish.

I learned 2 things in this process so far..
1. its nearly impossible to make cheap wood look like expensive wood.
2. if you get the concentrated wood dye on your skin, wash it off quick or its like a 3 week tatoo.


Brad

Looks very nice..... All the spairimentin paid off.

Man I know what you are going through in terms of getting the internal clock right, always much harder coming back from that direction vs the other pond

Cheers Jeff

Looking sweet man!!!

2. if you get the concentrated wood dye on your skin, wash it off quick or its like a 3 week tatoo.

LOL :D

Impressive so far....Nice work !

1. its nearly impossible to make cheap wood look like expensive wood.


I don't know Brad. The results look pretty good on my monitor...

I agree - looks good from here. I can really see a lot of detail with stain that I didn't realize was there before.

Brad,

Welcome back! Good to see you are synched back into CDT.

The lions look great.
So it seems the cheaper wood requires some very special staining/tinting/coloring skills. It is obvious that you have these skills mastered - Congrats!!

Just wanted to chime in and say how good the Lions look. You certainly have acquired more than just the tools. Welcome back!

Hey Guys,... thanks for the compliments.

I knew I could count on AVS for a little positive reinforcement...:)

From what I can gather the dye and tint are both techniques the production furniture/cabinet manufactures use to compensate for time/wood variations to produce a consistant product.

The tint is really cool, its like a transluscent colored layer that can be tweaked to about any color you like.

Actually the finish was easy once I got past the learning curve of mixing ratios, spray gun adjustment etc... and much eaiser than rubbing/brushing on -- then rubbing/brushing off of stain or gel.. and the spraying allowed multiple coats in a fraction of the time.

Now the test will be to see if I can get the second one to match:confused:


Brad

You didnt do both at the same time? Yikes. Good luck. I hope its easier matching it than I'm thinking. Other than that your doing a great job.

Last update on 3-2?!?!

Did you fall down a well? I'll send Lassie;)

Probably drinking too much beer!..

Last update on 3-2?!?!

Did you fall down a well? I'll send Lassie;)

Yea, I was wondering the same thing....

Last update on 3-2?!?!

Did you fall down a well? I'll send Lassie;)

Thanks Timmy....;)

Probably drinking too much beer!..

Isn't that like "too much fun".. or "too much money"... theirs no such thing!:D


Thanks for checkin on me guys... Not to make excuses but I figured it up and I've flown ~ 68K miles in the first quarter.. not a worlds record I know but a hell'va lot of time with my A$$ sitting in an airport/plane. AFAIK I dont need to travel until the middle of Apr again, so I will have a window to try get something accomplished.

What little time there has been for theater work is still being spent on putting the finish on the proscenium. The Lions have been far more time consuming than anticipated with scuffing and hand rubbing out between finish coats..however it is about ready to be reassembled.. I got the 703 cut up for the front bass traps, and will start treatment on the front/screen wall soon.

I'll try to eek out an update post in the next week or so, regardless of how uninspiring it may be..:o

Brad

lan·guish (lnggwsh)
intr.v. lan·guished, lan·guish·ing, lan·guish·es
1. To be or become weak or feeble
2. To exist or continue in miserable or disheartening conditions
3. To remain unattended or be neglected
4. To become downcast or pine away in longing

Finally finished spraying all the column pieces for the proscenium, and used construction adhesive to glue the inserts in the bands around the capitols and bases.

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris244.jpg

The lions still need rubbed out for the final time to knock some of the sheen off..
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris245.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris246.jpg
http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/Bradathomedotcom/ris264.jpg

These puppies are ready for their final trip down the stairs....;)
You Guys are probably tired of seeing these, I know I am...

The inserts in the bands were an aesthetic compromise.. if the light colored rope bands are too distracting I think Ill be able to darken the ropes.

Otherwise I'm happy with the final finish color, Very reddish in person.

Next up:Screen wall. should be able to post another update around..um ... September probably....:rolleyes:

In other news... Today will be the first round of Golf this year.. WHOO HOOOOO!!!!:D

Brad

WOW!!!:eek: Those look great!!!

Who can get tired of seeing such nice work, my hat off to you sir.

You can quit your day job.

Awesome!!! Kind of reminds me of the neverending story. LOL

Next up:Screen wall. should be able to post another update around..um ... September probably....:rolleyes:

In other news... Today will be the first round of Golf this year.. WHOO HOOOOO!!!!:D

Brad


Hey Brad the kitties look great!

Been out on the track 5 times already! And the swing is feeling pretty damn good. Doesn't look good for the HT getting finished anytime soon. One panel at a time....

Very nice Brad and I couldn't see a single nail hole. Perhaps the rope bands could be made a little closer to the color of the amber lighted panels? Anyway I'm really looking forward to your QRD panels ;) See you at the 19th..

Brad, those lions are freaking awesome. You really outdid yourself.

wow, i just stumbled upon your thread here. You have quite the imagination. This thing looks incredible, i cannot wait to see it finished.

...wow.

No other words. Just going to sit in the corner and follow :-p