I'm really having trouble understanding the relationship between LPCM and Dolby TrueHD as well as other so called lossy and lossless compression formats. It seems to be no where stated explicitly that these formats are nothing more than compressed PCM and the only thing that distinguishes them is the particular compression scheme used. Is this true? Can someone state definitively that Dolby TrueHD etc,... are nothing more than compressed LPCM?

I have seen it stated that unpacked TrueHD is identical to PCM. Why not just say that TrueHD is compressed PCM? It is a bit frustrating since every site I look at seems to dance around this particular fact with obfuscated wording. If anyone can clarify this issue it would be greatly appreciated?

As a further question, what is stored on the blu-ray disk itself. This never seems to be stated explicitly either. Instead I'll see things like blu-ray "supports" multichannel PCM. Does support mean contain?

I'm really having trouble understanding the relationship between LPCM and Dolby TrueHD as well as other so called lossy and lossless compression formats. It seems to be no where stated explicitly that these formats are nothing more than compressed PCM and the only thing that distinguishes them is the particular compression scheme used. Is this true? Can someone state definitively that Dolby TrueHD etc,... are nothing more than compressed LPCM?

I have seen it stated that unpacked TrueHD is identical to PCM. Why not just say that TrueHD is compressed PCM?

TrueHD and DTS MA are proprietary compressed format's of LPCM. How is that?:D

Thanks William. You cleared up some confusion for me with one sentence. I just need one more sentence. Are all the other Dolby formats prior to TrueHD also compressed LPCM (but in this case lossy)?

Thanks William. You cleared up some confusion for me with one sentence. I just need one more sentence. Are all the other Dolby formats prior to TrueHD also compressed LPCM (but in this case lossy)?

Yep. Same for DTS and its variants.

Thanks William. You cleared up some confusion for me with one sentence. I just need one more sentence. Are all the other Dolby formats prior to TrueHD also compressed LPCM (but in this case lossy)?

Think CD vs MP3. Only in this case the lossless codecs are considerably better than CD quality. There are very good lossy codecs too though, such as DD at 640Kb and DTS at 1.5Mb.

Don't forget DD+.

Thanks William. You cleared up some confusion for me with one sentence. I just need one more sentence. Are all the other Dolby formats prior to TrueHD also compressed LPCM (but in this case lossy)?

Technically yes, but the compression technique is more complex/different.

so basically DTS HDMA and TrueHD are to audio compression as WINZIP and WINRAR are to data compression ?

so basically DTS HDMA and TrueHD are to audio compression as WINZIP and WINRAR are to data compression ?

Inasmuch as they use MLP compression, yes. DVD-A usually uses the same thing.

so basically DTS HDMA and TrueHD are to audio compression as WINZIP and WINRAR are to data compression ?

Exactly.

Except one minor little detail, that isn't really important, but can cause confusion: TrueHD has a DialNorm setting ("Normalize the dialog" - a bit of a misnomer) that, if exercised while encoding (compressing from LPCM), can cause the decoded audio to be higher or lower in volume compared to the original or the DTS-HD MA equivalent. So on some BDs, there are TrueHD encodes that seem a little louder/quieter for no good reason - this is often the reason.

But essentially: yes, you have it right.

AFAIK,

shinksma

so basically DTS HDMA and TrueHD are to audio compression as WINZIP and WINRAR are to data compression ?Good analogy. That's exactly what they're like. All the data (every bit) packed into a smaller space.

Exactly.

Except one minor little detail, that isn't really important, but can cause confusion: TrueHD has a DialNorm setting ("Normalize the dialog" - a bit of a misnomer) that, if exercised while encoding (compressing from LPCM), can cause the decoded audio to be higher or lower in volume compared to the original or the DTS-HD MA equivalent. So on some BDs, there are TrueHD encodes that seem a little louder/quieter for no good reason - this is often the reason.

But essentially: yes, you have it right.

AFAIK,

shinksma
DTS-MA also has DN.;)

DTS-MA also has DN.;)Yes, but with DTS it is rarely (never?) actually used.

Yes, but with DTS it is rarely (never?) actually used.

True but I have seen it on a few BD's. The use (or amount of) DN is up to the encoding compony and not mandated by Dolby or DTS. Also DN doesn't effect SQ (just attenuation) or the reproduction of the exact data stream so it's not really relevant to the OP question. It's just meta data that is added to the file.

True but I have seen it on a few BD's. The use (or amount of) DN is up to the encoding compony and not mandated by Dolby or DTS. Also DN doesn't effect SQ (just attenuation) or the reproduction of the exact data stream so it's not really relevant to the OP question. It's just meta data that is added to the file.
I'd never realized that DTS-HD MA also has DN (or whatever DTS calls it - surely they don't use the same terminology as the competition!).

I only mentioned it because there might be a case where the OP plays back something encoded as LPCM, DTS-HD MA and TrueHD all on the same disk, and notices a volume change due to DN, which is often confused with encoding quality: it's louder, so it must be a better encode!

shinksma

I'd never realized that DTS-HD MA also has DN (or whatever DTS calls it - surely they don't use the same terminology as the competition!)....

shinksma
Yes they do and yes they do.:D

http://photos.imageevent.com/williamjulien/htrecliners/websize/screenshot_04_1.jpg

The use (or amount of) DN is up to the encoding compony and not mandated by Dolby or DTS.True, though historically they've usually been left at the default settings, which is where they differ (-4dB on Dolby encoders, 0dB on DTS encoders).

Inasmuch as they use MLP compression, yes. DVD-A usually uses the same thing.
DTS don't use MLP as it is owned by Dolby for awhile now.

DTS don't use MLP as it is owned by Dolby for awhile now.

To build on this point what DTS-MA does is incorporate a core DTS stream and then wraps the missing data around it. In effect DTS-MA is the lossy DTS format encased in the data that was thrown away (which is compressed losslessly no doubt in much the same manner as MLP). By doing this they can output a DTS signal on systems that only understand DTS. It is rather ingenious method that was used again in the new MP3HD format.

Dolby TrueHD uses MLP compression to pack the data into a smaller space in a new file format; MLP compression can be thought of as a zip file format. If they decide to include a standard DD track they can but it is optional.

It is rather ingenious method that was used again in the new MP3HD format..Yes, elegant in that all legacy decoders have 100% compatibility with all variations of dts content. Like i.e. my Rotel RDA-985:

http://www.rotel.com/content/manuals_archived/rda985.pdf

If they decide to include a standard DD track they can but it is optional.

DD is alway present as a "companion" when there is True HD but it isn't part of it like it is with DTS as you already covered that method.



There is also Windows, Apple and Flac all compressed lossless and I'm sure they all similar to one another, but must be something different so they don't infringe on each other's patents.

Yes, elegant in that all legacy decoders have 100% compatibility with all variations of dts content. Like i.e. my Rotel RDA-985:

http://www.rotel.com/content/manuals_archived/rda985.pdf


Wow, blast from the past. ;)

If they decide to include a standard DD track they can but it is optional.Not on Blu-ray, where a standard DD track is mandatory, not optional, and is interleaved into the TrueHD track as a single bitstream (legacy decoders just ignore the TrueHD part and decode the DD portion). So where would you find a TrueHD track without an embedded DD track?

Not on Blu-ray, where a standard DD track is mandatory, not optional, and is interleaved into the TrueHD track as a single bitstream (legacy decoders just ignore the TrueHD part and decode the DD portion). So where would you find a TrueHD track without an embedded DD track?

Some BD's have the DD option "hidden" if you have TrueHD decoding ability but it's still there you just can't see or select it.

Only HD DVD can have TrueHD without DD since it's (was) mandatory.

Yes, elegant in that all legacy decoders have 100% compatibility with all variations of dts content.But not so elegant in that many player decoders for dts-MA cannot process legacy extensions such as DTS-ES and 96/24.

Only HD DVD can have TrueHD without DD since it's (was) mandatory.Right, and that was because conversion-to-legacy was a mandatory feature on HD DVD players, always insuring backwards compatibility irrespective of soundtrack.

But not so elegant in that many player decoders for dts-MA cannot process legacy extensions such as DTS-ES and 96/24.A given manufacturers short comings have no bearing on the fundamental elegance of the dts design;)

But not so elegant in that many player decoders for dts-MA cannot process legacy extensions such as DTS-ES and 96/24.

Is there ANY example of a Blu-Ray player that can decode dts-ma (internally) and also decode DTS 96/24 on a DVD-V disc ?


It seems like they rebranded DTS-96/24 (as DTS-HD)... but I've never been clear on that score.

My goal is fairly simple.

I can play DVD-A, SACD, DVD-V, and hdcd discs today. I can decode Dolby Digital and DTS on a DVD-V disc, but I can't decode DTS-96/24.

I own about 15 dvd-v discs with DTS-96/24 tracks and I would like to think
that when I purchase a Blu-Ray player I could pick up support for that sort of thing - but I tend to think because its a DVD, I won't be so lucky.

I've been holding out for a blu-ray player that can do DTS-MA and DolbyTrue on the analog outputs.

I'd pay a little more for a blu-ray player if it can also do DTS-96/24 and ship the tracks out the analog ports.

Is there ANY example of a Blu-Ray player that can decode dts-ma (internally) and also decode DTS 96/24 on a DVD-V disc ?Most Blu-ray players that decode DTS-MA use the "Master Audio Essential" decoding suite, which only decodes DTS (core), DTS-HD HRA (hi-rez lossy) and DTS-HD MA (lossless). When playing back DVD-V, "MA Essential" decoders do not support DTS 96/24, DTS Neo:6, DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 nor DTS-ES (matrix). It seems like they rebranded DTS-96/24 (as DTS-HD)... but I've never been clear on that score.Not a re-branding, since the 96/24 extension packet is different from the HD-HRA and HD-MA extension packets. The latter two, for example, can be used for 48kHz soundtracks. I'd pay a little more for a blu-ray player if it can also do DTS-96/24 and ship the tracks out the analog ports.You'd attain your goal more easily by getting a new receiver that decoded all the DTS technologies, since you're not likely to find DTS 96/24 decoding in a player (especially a BD player). Then you could simply bitstream everything from the player, without being limited by its internal decoding.

Is there ANY example of a Blu-Ray player that can decode dts-ma (internally) and also decode DTS 96/24 on a DVD-V disc ?


Playstation 3 can do it. I tested it with decoding of Terminator 2 Blu-ray EU version which has DTS-ES 6.1 track and with DTS 96/24 DVD's found in Bjork's Sourrounded boxset and on Depeche Mode SA-CD+DVD remasters (first EU batch).

A given manufacturers short comings have no bearing on the fundamental elegance of the dts design;)Let's replace "a given manufacturer" with "nearly all manufacturers". I'd say the DTS design creates manufacturing challenges that most companies cannot overcome at the necessary price points. Not what I'd consider "fundamental elegance". But, maybe that's just me.

I'd pay a little more for a blu-ray player if it can also do DTS-96/24 and ship the tracks out the analog ports.As Sanjay noted, you're not likely to find a player like that. But, if you simply use an S/PDIF connection for those discs, your receiver can do the decoding of the legacy DTS extensions that the player cannot.

But, if you simply use an S/PDIF connection for those discs, your receiver can do the decoding of the legacy DTS extensions that the player cannot.

..But, maybe that's just me.Yep..it's "just you";)

Yep..it's "just you";)Punting, eh? Here's my point - the DTS core + extension approach was indeed quite elegant for handling various legacy formats. But, it has broken down with the high resolution formats. Development of decoders has proven difficult for manufacturers and nearly all player decoders cannot handle the legacy extensions, forcing people to use a second connection to process 96/24, DTS-ES, and Neo:6.

Fair enough. My original post still stands (elegant design) as you noted above. ..and IMO especially so regarding one competitors solution.

Btw, I can't "punt" what I did not fumble:)

Punting, eh? Here's my point - the DTS core + extension approach was indeed quite elegant for handling various legacy formats. But, it has broken down with the high resolution formats. Development of decoders has proven difficult for manufacturers and nearly all player decoders cannot handle the legacy extensions, forcing people to use a second connection to process 96/24, DTS-ES, and Neo:6.

FWIW, the jury is still out on whether the new Oppo player will decode DTS-ES matrix or discrete. It may be possible, or may not, depending on future firmware.

I'd say the DTS design creates manufacturing challenges that most companies cannot overcome at the necessary price points.The challenge in this case was to have the legacy DTS core decode exactly the same (down to the bit) irrespective of chipmaker. Previously, lossy DTS (and DD) decoding had to fall within specified tolerences in order for an OEM chipmaker to get certification for their decoding solution. And that's always been fine when decoding a stand-alone track.

But when that lossy DTS track has to be multiplexed with an extension packet (HD-MA) to create a bit-perfect copy of the original, you can no longer have even the slightest variation when decoding the lossless part. Quite the challenge when there are several DSP chipmakers, each writing their own code.

If the legacy/lossy track and the lossless track had been separate, then this problem would have never come up. This is why, for example, the PS3 was decoding TrueHD in 2006 but couldn't decode DTS-HD MA until 2008. Functional vs elegant.

PS3 wasn't alone, there was simply no DTS HD MA support[decoding] till 2007 in any device.

As Sanjay noted, you're not likely to find a player like that. But, if you simply use an S/PDIF connection for those discs, your receiver can do the decoding of the legacy DTS extensions that the player cannot.


"your receiver" is not MY receiver...

It's a receiver that I don't own and I would need to purchase.


My big goal here is to pick up decoding support in the PLAYER... and
avoid having to purchase an additional receiver...

But even if I went the 'additional receiver' route, I don't see new
receivers with the DTS-96/24 logo on them. Those logos were pretty
common several years back.

It's nice to know that the PS3 almost does what I want. The big
problem there is no support for analog outputs.

I don't want to purchase a PS3 because of the drain it would put
on MY television. My kids would use my TV too many hours a week,
and then I'd be shopping for a new HDTV about 6 years ahead of
MY schedule - LOL

"your receiver" is not MY receiver...

It's a receiver that I don't own and I would need to purchase.My mistake. You had explained that your unnamed AVR doesn't do DTS 96/24.

The DTS decoders in the moderately priced BD players all seem to be "limited" or "essential", meaning they do the lossless Master Audio extensions but not the legacy 96/24, ES, and Neo:6 extensions. It's possible the new Oppo, which will do SACD and DVD-Audio, will have a full functional DTS decoder. The product description says it will do dts-MA and "Other varieties of DTS audio formats are also supported." I think you are going to need to carefully examine the specs of all the players with dts-MA decoders and analog outs to find the information you need. That's maybe a dozen players at this point, fewer if you want to rule out the $2,000 players.

My mistake. You had explained that your unnamed AVR doesn't do DTS 96/24.

The DTS decoders in the moderately priced BD players all seem to be "limited" or "essential", meaning they do the lossless Master Audio extensions but not the legacy 96/24, ES, and Neo:6 extensions. It's possible the new Oppo, which will do SACD and DVD-Audio, will have a full functional DTS decoder. The product description says it will do dts-MA and "Other varieties of DTS audio formats are also supported." I think you are going to need to carefully examine the specs of all the players with dts-MA decoders and analog outs to find the information you need. That's maybe a dozen players at this point, fewer if you want to rule out the $2,000 players.


At least it sounds like most of them are the same.

What would kill me is if I had a 50/50 chance of finding one with the feature I want, and I end up on the wrong side of the coin flip.

Your blurb about Oppo gives me some hope.

I know I had specifically asked about support for DTS-96/24 in their older DVD products.... so if there are some others who made similar requests, it would have been on their radar screen.

Plus, I think there are people who have the new Oppo Blu-ray player already that are kind of acting as beta-testers. If its already there, they would probably know. I will probably post my question over on one of the threads for that box - or send a direct question to Oppo tech support.

But even if I went the 'additional receiver' route, I don't see new
receivers with the DTS-96/24 logo on them. Those logos were pretty
common several years back. The logo don't mean much. My Integra Don't show the DTS 96/24 logo either only the DTS Master Audio one, but it decodes and display the DTS 96/24 content. Same goes for ES discrete/matrix and Neo 6.

I think there are people who have the new Oppo Blu-ray player already that are kind of acting as beta-testers.I visited one today and he let me try various DTS tracks to see what the upcoming Oppo would decode. Output was set to LPCM and we kept an eye on the front panel of his pre-pro.

With a regular DTS track, it read "PCM 5.1-ch 48kHz". With a DTS ES Discrete track, it read "PCM 6.1-ch 48kHz". With a DTS 96/24 track, it read "PCM 5.1-ch 96kHz". We even tried one of those old DTS music discs (on CD delivery media), which showed up as "PCM 5.1-ch 44.1kHz".

Judging by the channel count and sampling rate displayed, looks like the Oppo BDP-83 correctly decodes all the legacy DTS formats. Being a Blu-ray player, it also decodes the new DTS codecs as well (DTS-HD HRA, DTS-HD MA). Just what you were looking for.

I visited one today and he let me try various DTS tracks to see what the upcoming Oppo would decode. Output was set to LPCM and we kept an eye on the front panel of his pre-pro.

With a regular DTS track, it read "PCM 5.1-ch 48kHz". With a DTS ES Discrete track, it read "PCM 6.1-ch 48kHz". With a DTS 96/24 track, it read "PCM 5.1-ch 96kHz". We even tried one of those old DTS music discs (on CD delivery media), which showed up as "PCM 5.1-ch 44.1kHz".

Judging by the channel count and sampling rate displayed, looks like the Oppo BDP-83 correctly decodes all the legacy DTS formats. Being a Blu-ray player, it also decodes the new DTS codecs as well (DTS-HD HRA, DTS-HD MA). Just what you were looking for.


This is very good news.

Not only does the Oppo have analog audio outputs, since they decided to go ahead and add DVD-A support to the product (this was originally missing), I can probably avoiding having to buy an HDMI switch.

Right now I have an Oppo dvd player connected via HDMI to my HDTV with analog outputs going to my receiver. I bought the Oppo when my JVC dvd-audio player died. I just pulled the JVC out of my cabinet and rewired the Oppo in the same location - with the addition of the HDMI video output (which i was nervous wouldn't work on my TV - but works fine).

Right now I have the 5.1 analog inputs on my receiver shared by three boxes:

1.) Sony SACD player
2.) Oppo DVD/DVD-A/SACD player
3.) Sony Dolby Digital AC-3 decoder

I switch between these three using two analog boxes.

Each of the two boxes has four inputs. I was thinking I would add
a BluRay player as the fourth. But that was going to add a 4th set
of 6 analog cables - and I was going to have add some sort of HDMI
switch to share the BluRay player and the old Oppo.

But now that the new Oppo BluRay player does everything my old Oppo DVD player did - plus BluRay - plus DTS 96/24 decoding (yeah!), I can just move the old Oppo to another room and put the BluRay player in its place - with no new wiring (and no $100 HDMI switch).


Thats about as graceful a transition as possible.

Thank you for testing the various discs.

What disc did you use that got it to say "PCM 5.1 96 Khz"

And I assume that was displayed by a box external to the Oppo - BUT -
they would do the exact same conversion internal before handing it to their analog outs.... just no real way to tell except listening to the output or perhaps a display

But now that the new Oppo BluRay player does everything my old Oppo DVD player did - plus BluRay - plus DTS 96/24 decoding (yeah!),

Decoding of DTS-ES and DTS 96/24 is not officially supported in the Oppo BDP-83. It's not known at this time if the decoder will be able to do that or not. The pre-release firmware does show some indication that this type function is turned on, but actual output and function is questionable. It remains to be seen if the final release firmware will have this working or not.

Decoding of DTS-ES and DTS 96/24 is not officially supported in the Oppo BDP-83. It's not known at this time if the decoder will be able to do that or not. The pre-release firmware does show some indication that this type function is turned on, but actual output and function is questionable. It remains to be seen if the final release firmware will have this working or not.


While I understand and share your cautious distinction between a feature tested on a pre-release load of firmware and a final load of firmware, I tend to think that Oppo has already done the hard part and the feature I'm asking about is very likely to show up in the final product.

If the decoding of these exotic DTS modes ends up interfering with some other function in the Oppo bluray box, I do understand that the feature I'm hoping for could be jettisoned.

But I view the chance of that happening as fairly remote.

More importantly, I think the chance of another vendor's bluray player product stepping up to the plate and supporting DTS 96/24 decoding on a DVD-V disc is as even MORE remote.

So that means I will be probably not be buying ANY bluray player until the Oppo product hits the market and I can get confirmation or denial of the final feature set.


I am somewhat curious about the Sony 550 given that someone above reported that the Sony PS3 can do what I want (on a HDMI interface only).

While I understand and share your cautious distinction between a feature tested on a pre-release load of firmware and a final load of firmware, I tend to think that Oppo has already done the hard part and the feature I'm asking about is very likely to show up in the final product.


That would be an erroneous conclusion. The fact that little 6.1 and DTS lights go on does not mean it's actually working right.

My NDA prevents me getting too specific, suffice it to say that the player's decoder chip is certified for "DTS-Essential" only. That means several things, one of which is that the chip maker can refuse to support extended functions, and Oppo is then unable to tweak it or make it work right. Or not.

Simply turning on the function is a long way from having it work right, and does in fact have the effect of breaking other DTS-related functions.

Simply turning on the function is a long way from having it work right, and does in fact have the effect of breaking other DTS-related functions.Note to self:

I wonder if this is dts/manufacturer SDK (Software Development Kit) issue? Also maybe it's just me, but in the twenty first century one should be able to digitally compress and or mulitplex information into a given digital payload and still ultimately manage to recover the original ones' a zero:cool:

Note to self:

I wonder if this is dts/manufacturer SDK (Software Development Kit) issue? Also maybe it's just me, but in the twenty first century one should be able to digitally compress and or mulitplex information into a given digital payload and still ultimately manage to recover the original ones' a zero:cool:

Apparently DTS is a Pandora's box of decoding bugs. Why DTS decoding chips would be rated for different levels of function is beyond me, apart from the obvious desire for different levels of licensing fees.

Why DTS decoding chips would be rated for different levels of function is beyond me, apart from the obvious desire for different levels of licensing fees.

I think "licensing fees" is a more reasonable justification for supporting
some decoding algorithms and not others.


I can understand how supporting "new" DTS and "old" DTS simultaneously
might be a technical challenge... but the current pre-release Oppo seems
to be doing both today... And there appears to be at least one example
of another vendor's product that is doing the same (the Sony PS3).

I have no clue if the Sony uses a similar chip.

If the reality is Oppo may not want to pay the extra incremental
cash to the DTS people (whoever they are these days) to support
a feature that very few people will use, the reason for it being
turned off when the product goes "GA" would be business related,
not technology related.

I'm also not sure what "certification" means because there are plenty
of things that are not certified that do indeed work...

It would seem more likely (to me) that the "96 Khz" indication that someone
here reported seeing may or may not be a true indication that the dts stream was
decoded properly... That is - simply getting sound isn't an indication that
the box is providing the *proper* sound.

But the fact that the box seemed to be providing 6.1 sound for DTS-ES
source material is encouraging because it would seem to be more difficult
to accidently provide an extra discrete channel - especially if you can hear
the extra discrete channel in an extra speaker....

The DTS 96/24 thing for me is mostly a curiousity - largely provoked by
the fact that the Genesis reissues have the music encoded as such -
ironically because someone assumed that more people would be able
to decode it.

I think I probably own about 15-20 discs with "DTS 96/24" sound
and I've never been able to do anything with them except listen
to the traditional DTS core.

The fact that little 6.1 and DTS lights go on does not mean it's actually working right.The Oppo beta tester and I weren't looking for the DTS lights to go on but instead were looking at the channel count and sampling rate of the PCM signal his pre-pro was receiving. Out of the four legacy DTS tracks we tried (DTS, DTS ES 6.1, DTS 96/24, DTS CD), only one ended up decoding to 96kHz PCM (the DTS 96/24 track) and only one ended up outputting 6.1 channels (the DTS ES Discrete 6.1 track). Besides sampling rate and channel count, what other indicator(s) would you need to confirm that decoding for legacy DTS codecs is actually working right?

Besides sampling rate and channel count, what other indicator(s) would you need to confirm that decoding for legacy DTS codecs is actually working right?

How about actually having the correct audio in the rear channels, at the correct levels and sounding like it should?

In the current FW revision, the lights are on but nobody's home. ;) Also, DTS-CD playback is broken which may be a result of having ES/96/24 switched on. There's one or 2 other bugs that may be related, but are not public.

How about actually having the correct audio in the rear channels, at the correct levels and sounding like it should?

In the current FW revision, the lights are on but nobody's home. ;) Also, DTS-CD playback is broken which may be a result of having ES/96/24 switched on. There's one or 2 other bugs that may be related, but are not public.


It sounds like it would be fairly easy to determine if the correct audio is in the correct channels if you a test disc for each of the formats. I have a DVD-V disc that does "left, center, right, right surround, left surround, sub" announcements for various formats (dolby prologic, dolby digital, "old" dts, and even 96/24 stereo). I got the disc for free from Best Buy and I've found it useful on occasion - not to test a design - but to verify my wiring (from the player to the processor,from the processor to the amplifier, from the amplifier to the speakers).

If a similar disc existed with DTS 96/24 tests and DTS-ES tests, it would be fairly easy to see if the right sounds were being presented to the right speakers.

I'm not too worried about levels being correct because I can always adjust the levels. "Sounding right" would be a lot tougher... especially since I have no real reference telling me what a DTS 96/24 disc should sound like.... other than a somewhat optimistic hope that it might sound similar to an MLP 96/24 track

Checking if it "sounds right" might be somewhat easier for those who already can decode DTS 96/24 at the receiver... they might not be able to catch something subtle, but they could definetly see if something was drastically wrong between the decoding in one place (the oppo) and the decoding in another place (i.e receiver)

DTS-CD playback is broken which may be a result of having ES/96/24 switched on.When I tried DTS-CD, channel assignments were correct as well as sampling rate (44.1). What about it is broken?

I have no clue if the Sony uses a similar chip.


Sony uses software decoders implented on SPEs inside the Playstation 3.

Sony uses software decoders implented on SPEs inside the Playstation 3.

Without understanding a lot about the data path through a specific
product, it is fairly easy for me to imagine that its possible to design
a box so that different data is routed through a box differently.

Namely, if a certain chip is only certified to do "X" - but other chips
are certified to do "Y"... it would seem that its possible to do both
"X" and "Y" if both chips are including.

In this case "X" could be the chip that is not certified to do DTS-ES, DTS-96/24, and "Y" could be some sort of software decoder that can
decode that sort of source material.

Without understanding a lot about the data path through a specific
product, it is fairly easy for me to imagine that its possible to design
a box so that different data is routed through a box differently.

Namely, if a certain chip is only certified to do "X" - but other chips
are certified to do "Y"... it would seem that its possible to do both
"X" and "Y" if both chips are including.

In this case "X" could be the chip that is not certified to do DTS-ES, DTS-96/24, and "Y" could be some sort of software decoder that can
decode that sort of source material.

You are absolutely right. PS3 is a special case, as Cell processor inside has enough power to fiddle anything in software, while dedicated players tend to include the cheapest hardware solutions on the market to get away just with supporting the needed stuff.

Take your pick of FLAC, Dolby, DTS. All yield 6 GBytes for compressed lossless 192/24 5.1...

See the comparisons (and the obvious conclusion) in the following thread:

Does BD-Audio just make a case for 'download only' hifi surround sound distribution? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1142995)

I recently looked into this and found that TrueHD is just the same as LCPM but it doesnt take as much space as LCPM does... better compression with the same quality

I recently looked into this and found that TrueHD is just the same as LCPM but it doesnt take as much space as LCPM does... better compression with the same qualityPCM is just put on the disc as is. Most movies have six to eight channels of audio data, which takes a lot of space. There's no compression involved at all.

TrueHD and dts-MA are compressed versions of the original PCM. They are only used to save space. When decoded (uncompressed), you are back to the original PCM, identical bit-for-bit.