read the title

better, costs more

better, costs more

how is it better

how is it better

- More charts (http://www.spectracal.com/screenshots.html)
- More data
- More meters (http://www.spectracal.com/meters.html)
- Better customer support
- More sources (http://www.spectracal.com/sources.html)
- Automated sources: DVD, (http://www.spectracal.com/usbuirt.html) Video Processors, pattern generators
- Did I say better customer support
- Active development team (http://www.spectracal.com/about.html) that does this for a living we have had 4 major releases (http://www.spectracal.com/release_notes.html) in this last year alone each adding more hardware support and features each time
- A development team that really listens to what the customer wants and needs
- Majority of the pro community (http://www.spectracal.com/pros.html) have switch to CalMAN it must have been for a reason
- The best calibration documentation available at any price
- Licensed developer for all of the hardware we support so better hardware support
- Licensed reseller for all of the hardware we support: x-rite, Orb, Klien, Konica Minolta, Photo Research, Extron, DTRO, Lumagen, etc...
- Support via: Phone, Email and Forums (http://www.spectracal.com/contact.html)
- Tested support for Windows XP, Vista 32/64 and Windows7
- Tested support for virtualization: Parallels, Bootcamp and VMware
- All calculations are done in 64 bit floating point so no rounding errors
- FREE eval that does not timeout

I'm sure there are many more but you get my point.

- More charts
- More data
- More meters
- Better customer support
- More sources
- Automated sources: DVD, Video Processors, pattern generators
- Did I say better customer support
- Active development team that does this for a living we have had 4 major releases in this last year alone each adding more hardware support and features each time
- A development team that really listens to what the customer wants and needs
- Majority of the pro community have switch to CalMAN it must have been for a reason
- The best calibration documentation available at any price
- Licensed developer for all of the hardware we support so better hardware support
- Licensed reseller for all of the hardware we support: x-rite, Orb, Klien, Konica Minolta, Photo Research, Extron, DTRO, Lumagen, etc...
- Support via: Phone, Email and Forums

I'm sure there are many more but you get my point.

what about accuracy

what about accuracy

What about our accuracy nobody can touch it. All of our calculations are done in 64 bit floating point. Again one of the main reasons the pro's switched.

do you have any sample files or reports to show the difference

All of our calculations are done in 64 bit floating point. Again one of the main reasons the pro's switched.

What does HCFR use? 32 bit? Integer? To what decimal digit (x,y,Y) is the accuracy better between the two calculation methods?
I can also see another good reason a pro would not use HCFR. It would be more awkward to justify $300-400 fees when you show up and your client sees that you’re using free tools. Irrespective of any possible accuracy differences.

Dave

I haven't used HCFR, but I have used Colorfacts (latest), Sencore (older) and Progressive Labs (older); CalMAN is so far ahead of any of them it's in another league altogether.

what about accuracy

At the low end with the same meter (i1Pro) CalMAN seems more consistent from reading to reading than Colorfacts. It's probably due to CalMAN's better Low Light Handler. At high light they seem about the same as expected.
Hope this helps even though I'm comparing it to a different program.

i just bought calman home. how long to they send the key, and id there a online book on how to use calman?

Documentation on useage is embedded in the program...no need for a book. Use the Spectracal forums to get your other questions answered. Don't expect CalMan to be intuitive out of the shoot. It is as easy as a program can get, but there is still a learning curve.

You've made a good choice with Calman. As SMB has said, there is a learning curve so don't get discouraged.

i just bought calman home. how long to they send the key, and id there a online book on how to use calman?

I found the help files to not only be detailed but a huge help with the learning curve as well. Also they gave me topics to do further research on. From a complete newb to calibrating is a huge curve but this program takes alot of the sting out of it. There's also tons of help here and on thier own forums. As far as keys go it only took 24 hrs to get my first one.

do you have any sample files or reports to show the difference

Check this THREAD (http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31) for more info and comparisons (Wolfy and others spent time).. :D

where should the color luminance be,and how do you change it when calibrating.

I realise you've made your purchase, but:

From everyone that I've spoken with/helped with calibration, HCFR's interface is a lot easier to learn than CalMAN's, though it will be easier to start using CalMAN on its own than switch from one to the other.

One of the reasons for this though, is that HCFR doesn't have nearly as many options, and only lets you have one kind of chart on the screen at a time.

CalMAN's interface—once you learn it—is a definite improvement, and the ability to create your own layouts is invaluable. You can set it up so that you only see the information you want/need at any one time.

I like to be able to see everything I need for calibration on the screen at once, so I've been able to create a layout using only the charts/information I need/use, and in a way that makes sense to me. (it's on the CalMAN forums here (http://www.datapopuli.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=1594#p9446))

There are good help files for beginners, and while it's a small community, you'll usually get help pretty quickly if you need it over at the CalMAN forums.


The support from SpectraCAL is superb. I've had quick responses to any questions I've had via email. (I had quite a few before purchasing)

The really seem to listen to their customers when adding new features / charts and seem to be updating fairly regularly. They have also released betas/release candidates if they contain a specific fix needed for someone, or if they want to try new features early. Just recently, they released a couple of betas/RCs of v3.3 for people having issues with Chroma 5s, rather than having us wait for the full release.


The low-light handler makes a big difference to the accuracy/repeatability of darker readings with meters such as the i1Pros, and meter profiling lets you have the accuracy of an i1Pro with a meter such as a Chroma 5 that is better at low light levels. (note: this requires you to own both meters and a suitable license)


It also seems to be more reliable with some meters under certain conditions. With HCFR running in Parallels it often returns bad readings from my DTP-94 which means having to disconnect the meter and re-initialise it, whereas CalMAN seems to work without issues.



HCFR is great in the way that it opens up calibration to a wider audience, significantly reducing the cost of entry and having a fairly easy to learn interface. CalMAN is a much more advanced tool (if you need it to be—there are still the "beginner" modes) that is absolutely worth the extra money if you can afford it, however.

Calman IS a good product. IMO it gets a bit too much praise though. As a matter of balancing the euphoria:

People keep mentioning the good customer support from the calman team. Can't really agree. My calman crashes and i did report it in the support forum. After waiting for weeks for an answer/help i gave up. :(

As to the UI. It is well 'different'. Should mention i have been designing and implementing UI's for almost 30 yrs now. Appreciate the new 'angle of attack' in calman, however when measuring keystrokes or mouse clicks it is not the most efficient UI. The graphs are too small and hard to read. When designing your own report I have gotten calman 'confused'. Delete all and start again.

Still a good start and hope it continues to improve. The big adavantage of calman is it's exceptional meter support and functionality.

where should the color luminance be,and how do you change it when calibrating.

People keep mentioning the good customer support from the calman team. Can't really agree. My calman crashes and i did report it in the support forum. After waiting for weeks for an answer/help i gave up. :(
I've just searched for your name on the forums and had a look—it seems that CalMAN was only crashing when quitting. Obviously it shouldn't be, but it's not like you aren't able to use it. If you have a problem that's been overlooked, try sending them an email rather than using the forum. (it's easy to miss forum posts) Is this still happening with 3.3?

As to the UI. It is well 'different'. Should mention i have been designing and implementing UI's for almost 30 yrs now. Appreciate the new 'angle of attack' in calman, however when measuring keystrokes or mouse clicks it is not the most efficient UI. The graphs are too small and hard to read. When designing your own report I have gotten calman 'confused'. Delete all and start again.
I agree that the UI could be better, but being able to create a custom layout makes up for it in my opinion. Once you're in the measurement section, the only things you need to click on are the read buttons.

Graph size is based entirely on the layout you're using. I thought most of the default layouts had graphs that were too large if anything.

What are the problems you're having with creating a report layout? (I'm not sure what you mean about CalMAN being "confused")

if you use a glass screen protector on a lcd will you have to change the setting to plasma or keep it on lcd?

Andrew,

fact is i never got a response to my problem. Not good no matter how trivial it is.


'confused' as in for instance gets resize handels of the graphs mixed up. Resize one and a different element changes instead. Or graphs disappear but the handels are still there etc. I never made a list, isn't so important as i got the job done.

Please Note: I believe in the product. The hype here is irritating though.

P.S: as to the graphs, the 'trappings waste too much space, thats why they use comparitively too much space on the Worksheet in relation to the visibla data.

I recently purchased CalMAN to work on my Samsung.

I have yet to use it... I also have HCFR, which I have used.

I think Curt Palme's tutorial on calibrating with HCFR makes it "easy" to learn. The user interface seems a bit less busy. The layout of the windows allows you to see clearly, your numerical data and the graphs. I don't discount the value of a visual representation of data! With CalMAN I have these tiny little graphs that I can barely interpret as to fine detail. When I am working on tweaking my set, I am doing only one measurement at a time, i.e. grayscale, or colors. I don't need to have a page with everything displayed in tiny windows. As a report it could be handy.

After plunking down the money, I will give it a shot, but it certainly is a bit more confusing!

We'll see how it goes.

Mike

It all boils down to how you define your layouts. I have created separate layouts for each step in the process. I've got one layout for full grayscale readings, one layout for adjusting my cuts/gains (80/20), one layout for gamma/luminance and one layout for CMS work. You don't have to cram everything in on one layout. That's the beauty of Calman.
Provides a lot of flexibility.

Here's an example for what I use for layouts (I have updated them since to include other data, but you get the idea).

http://www.digitalvideocalibrations.com/calibrations/Calman%20Sample%20Layouts.pdf

And as far as number of clicks, etc I really don't see what the issue can possibly be.
Once i'm in the appropriate layout the clicks are very minimal. I'm either taking full readings or continuous readings.

It all boils down to how you define your layouts. I have created separate layouts for each step in the process. I've got one layout for full grayscale readings, one layout for adjusting my cuts/gains (80/20), one layout for gamma/luminance and one layout for CMS work. You don't have to cram everything in on one layout. That's the beauty of Calman.
Provides a lot of flexibility.

This is the exact thing I was hoping for. I will see if I can come up with something I find useful. Do you need to be on advanced setting to get this type of flexibility? or is the intermediate OK. I don't have the CalMAN available as I write this, but is there a decent help file on designing the layouts - aww heck -I'll look later on! But if you can make it easier - I would indeed appreciate it!

Mike

Andrew,

fact is i never got a response to my problem. Not good no matter how trivial it is.


'confused' as in for instance gets resize handels of the graphs mixed up. Resize one and a different element changes instead. Or graphs disappear but the handels are still there etc. I never made a list, isn't so important as i got the job done.

Please Note: I believe in the product. The hype here is irritating though.

P.S: as to the graphs, the 'trappings waste too much space, thats why they use comparitively too much space on the Worksheet in relation to the visibla data.

Andrew, you are right we did miss replying to your post back on July 18th. The problem was recorded in our bug tracking system but a reply was not posted.

Anyhow your problem with CalMAN crashing on exit was fixed in v3.3 as well as making the resize and drag grab handles larger and more prominent while in design mode.

As for charts vs. data it is more of a personal choice most people respond better to visuals and that's what CalMAN basic and intermediate modes are designed around. However we do understand some want data and lots of it and that is what advanced mode is for because you can look at just data if you like and/or a good mix of both. And if for some reason none of our default layouts appeal to someone we have design mode and you can create you own. BTW, design mode is how we designed all of the default layouts in CalMAN so yes we use our own tools. Another useful tip is for someone wanting to just change our default layouts you can load them as a template make the changes and save it back as a new one so you don't have to start from scratch.

This is the exact thing I was hoping for. I will see if I can come up with something I find useful. Do you need to be on advanced setting to get this type of flexibility? or is the intermediate OK. I don't have the CalMAN available as I write this, but is there a decent help file on designing the layouts - aww heck -I'll look later on! But if you can make it easier - I would indeed appreciate it!

Mike
Another thing about layouts. You can start with a simple layout, such as just grayscale RGB. Take your readings, then decide to see Gamma, Luminance, etc. Well, you can just manipulate the current view and add those additional charts, and the current data is applied to them automatically. No need to make a second run. Or, you can simply delete the chart you had and view a different chart if you like everything large. Makes it much easier to create a layout that you would like to print out for later. You then have the option to save that new page layout(at least in the pro version of calman), for use later.

Andrew, you are right we did miss replying to your post back on July 18th. The problem was recorded in our bug tracking system but a reply was not posted.

Anyhow your problem with CalMAN crashing on exit was fixed in v3.3 as well as making the resize and drag grab handles larger and more prominent while in design mode.

As for charts vs. data it is more of a personal choice most people respond better to visuals and that's what CalMAN basic and intermediate modes are designed around. However we do understand some want data and lots of it and that is what advanced mode is for because you can look at just data if you like and/or a good mix of both. And if for some reason none of our default layouts appeal to someone we have design mode and you can create you own. BTW, design mode is how we designed all of the default layouts in CalMAN so yes we use our own tools. Another useful tip is for someone wanting to just change our default layouts you can load them as a template make the changes and save it back as a new one so you don't have to start from scratch.

Derek, it was me who had the crashing problem not andrew. Anyway I just installed v3.3. Now calman no longer recognizes my i1pro. I reinstalled the license still all i get is the simulated meter as an option. Could it be that my license is not valid for 3.3??

Derek, it was me who had the crashing problem not andrew. Anyway I just installed v3.3. Now calman no longer recognizes my i1pro. I reinstalled the license still all i get is the simulated meter as an option. Could it be that my license is not valid for 3.3??

On the about page we have a license button what does it say for the license key? We did not change the keys from 3.x to 3.3 so it should still work the way it did before.

I got it to work Derek. Was a code page problem with cut and paste of the licence. Thanx.

New version is looking good :)

It all boils down to how you define your layouts. I have created separate layouts for each step in the process. I've got one layout for full grayscale readings, one layout for adjusting my cuts/gains (80/20), one layout for gamma/luminance and one layout for CMS work. You don't have to cram everything in on one layout. That's the beauty of Calman.
Provides a lot of flexibility.

Here's an example for what I use for layouts (I have updated them since to include other data, but you get the idea).

http://www.digitalvideocalibrations.com/calibrations/Calman%20Sample%20Layouts.pdf

And as far as number of clicks, etc I really don't see what the issue can possibly be.
Once i'm in the appropriate layout the clicks are very minimal. I'm either taking full readings or continuous readings.

Is there a way you could post that so I can use it with my CalMan?

That is more to my mode of thought!!

Though I seem to have lost my User Workspace tab, and don't know what the heck is going on! Without that I think I'm sunk! I tried repairing CalMan, and even using windows add/remove programs and reinstalling, and no User Workspace.... I sort of like the CalMAN software, but I - as you can see - am having trouble.

This is the exact thing I was hoping for. I will see if I can come up with something I find useful. Do you need to be on advanced setting to get this type of flexibility? or is the intermediate OK. I don't have the CalMAN available as I write this, but is there a decent help file on designing the layouts - aww heck -I'll look later on! But if you can make it easier - I would indeed appreciate it!
Basic and Intermediate are pre-defined, though you could create a new layout in the Design mode, and save your new layouts with the names of the ones used by default. I would save the default layouts in another place as backups, though. Also, the application limits certain features/options based upon which mode you are in, including which help files you see. You aren't going to be able to do a 21-point grayscale in beginner mode, no matter what layouts you pull together.

Part of the reason for doing your own layouts is that everyone not only has different ways they want to see things, but they also have different screen resolutions. If you are working on a laptop that is 1024x768, you will only be able to put so much information on one screen than if you are working at 1920x1080.

Is there a way you could post that so I can use it with my CalMan?
Many of our users have posted various layouts in our forum, so go take a look and give a few a try. Even if they aren't 100% to your liking, it is easier to start with something than a blank slate.

Though I seem to have lost my User Workspace tab, and don't know what the heck is going on! Without that I think I'm sunk! I tried repairing CalMan, and even using windows add/remove programs and reinstalling, and no User Workspace.... I sort of like the CalMAN software, but I - as you can see - am having trouble.
Go ahead and contact support or post in our support forums. In the spirit of AVS' "no marketing" policies, we try to keep our explicit product support off of this forum.

Bill

if you use a glass screen protector on a lcd will you have to change the setting to plasma or keep it on lcd?
I'm not quite sure what this is. Do you have a secondary screen in front of your LCD's screen? If so, leave the meter on LCD. I am not sure how your screen protector will change how the meter interacts with the light from the panel, though, so you may need to calibrate without it.

FYI, LCD glass is pure silica glass, much like fiber optics. It is more expensive than glass made with a mix of other materials because you have to heat it to a higher temperature, but it is also much, much tougher than ordinary window glass. That being said, you can crush the crystal matrix fairly easily.

where should the color luminance be,and how do you change it when calibrating.
This depends entirely upon the individual model. In general, you don't have a "luminance" control. You will have RGB brightness and contrast, and maybe a gamma control. What these controls do in a generic sense is covered extensively in the help files in CalMAN. How your specific set works may be covered in a "tweaking" thread dedicated to it, or you might find another CalMAN user with something similar (e.g., Samsung LCDs generally work in similar ways).

Bill

I'm not quite sure what this is. Do you have a secondary screen in front of your LCD's screen? Bill

A regular piece of plexi glass

There's a setting called false color in my service menu,it was set at 0 should I change it to 1.

Is there a standard for the brightness of 100ire on tv's.

A regular piece of plexi glass

There's a setting called false color in my service menu,it was set at 0 should I change it to 1.

Is there a standard for the brightness of 100ire on tv's.

Brightness is not measured in ire units. ire is a relative voltage unit for analog video signals.

I would not suggest you change any settings in your service menu unless you know exactly what they do.

Brightness is not measured in ire units. ire is a relative voltage unit for analog video signals.

cd/m2 of 100% gray/ire

I would not suggest you change any settings in your service menu unless you know exactly what they do.

That is way im asking.

cd/m2 of 100% gray/ire

There are some recommendations, but they may be mitigated by the viewing environment and the ability of the display. One usually focuses on getting the gamma and gray scale tracking right and getting the best blacks rather than targetting a particular white level.


That is way im asking.

One would have to do some research to find out exactly what it does. I doubt that anyone in this forum would know. You might try the forum for your display or refer to the training manual for your display, but I do not recall ever seeing documentation of that control.

There are some recommendations, but they may be mitigated by the viewing environment and the ability of the display. One usually focuses on getting the gamma and gray scale tracking right and getting the best blacks rather than targetting a particular white level.

I totally agree with you, Leonard! :)

That is way im asking.
Jeff - My best advice to you right now is to slow down. A LOT of your questions (e.g., standards, IRE, luminance controls) are answered in the CalMAN help files. It also helps if you include more of your thought process in your posts. It helps set expectations by those of us who are trying to help you about where you are at in the learning curve. You could be pretty far along in learning about DIY calibration, but that hasn't come across to me yet if you are. Right now, my fear is that you are going to tinker in the service menu and "brick" your set. This would be especially disappointing since you are concerned enough about your TV's life to put a plexi cover in front of it.

Bill

Jeff - My best advice to you right now is to slow down. A LOT of your questions (e.g., standards, IRE, luminance controls) are answered in the CalMAN help files. It also helps if you include more of your thought process in your posts. It helps set expectations by those of us who are trying to help you about where you are at in the learning curve. You could be pretty far along in learning about DIY calibration, but that hasn't come across to me yet if you are. Right now, my fear is that you are going to tinker in the service menu and "brick" your set. This would be especially disappointing since you are concerned enough about your TV's life to put a plexi cover in front of it.

Bill

I know the standards, was wondering if there was a standard for brightness of 100 percent gray because my black level always 0.21cd/m2 with 100% being 104.23cd/m2, I was able to get the black level to 12.15cd/m2 by adjust the backlight in the service menu,but the 100% went down to 72.65cd/m2,I was was wondering if the was I a standard for it or I would keep it at that. As for color luminance this was the first i have seen it when i was useing calman that is why i was asking about that and the plexi cover was because we just bought the wii system andi dont want my tv getting broken.

I know the standards, was wondering if there was a standard for brightness of 100 percent gray because my black level always 0.21cd/m2 with 100% being 104.23cd/m2, I was able to get the black level to 12.15cd/m2 by adjust the backlight in the service menu,but the 100% went down to 72.65cd/m2,I was was wondering if the was I a standard for it or I would keep it at that. As for color luminance this was the first i have seen it when i was useing calman that is why i was asking about that and the plexi cover was because we just bought the wii system andi dont want my tv getting broken.

There isn't really a standard for total lumanince unless you run in a fully light controled room. Moving it up or down based on your lighting enviroment and your ability to do so is fine (some projecters may not be able to hit 72cdm.

Color lumance is primarly a function of the color control, but all sets behave differently so use the color control on the user menu to adjust as best you can. Generally speaking there is no finer grained service menu per color controls for it, although more sets (toshiba, samsung and some hitachis) have some sort of color management system that lets you dial up color and tint (Saturation and hue) per color. But the sets I've seen that have that level of control expose it in the user menu.

I got my lcds black level to .05 cd/m2 on colorhcfr and .02 cd/m2 on calman while still having the the brightness control correct,does this mean that my lcds blacks are as good as a plasma now?

I got my lcds black level to .05 cd/m2 on colorhcfr and .02 cd/m2 on calman while still having the the brightness control correct,does this mean that my lcds blacks are as good as a plasma now?
Not quite… the latest Pioneers are around 0.003cd/m² according to HDTVtest (http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Pioneer-PDP-LX5090/Calibration.htm).

Depending on your meter, those numbers you have may not be accurate either.

backk to the original topic:

I'm really liking calman 3.3 :) A lot of improvements. It's obvious the spectracal team enjoys what they are doing.

my mistake the black level on calman was .02 fl

hows my first calibration on calman.

p.s i dont have a c.m.s on this tv and i set color using the blue filter.

my mistake the black level on calman was .02 fl

hows my first calibration on calman.

p.s i dont have a c.m.s on this tv and i set color using the blue filter.
While this is better dealt with on the CalMAN support forum, it is instructive for people who are thinking about calibrating to see what the charts look like and what they can tell you. Since you are using a colorimeter, I would ignore the gamut-related charts. Let's focus on the grayscale ones, though:

The RGB Level Tracking and the RGB Color Balance charts both show a bit of green runout. What this means is that you are short a bit of green at the upper-end of the grayscale. The magnitude of the error shows up in the Delta E chart in the upper right-hand chart. There, you can see the color error rise quickly from less than 1 at 80% to over 8 at 100% -- very visible. There are two ways of trying to correct this. The first would be to lower your (master) contrast control a click or two to see if that opened up enough headroom in green for it to fall into line. Alternatively, you could lower the red and blue contrast (gain) controls by a notch or two each to try to balance them against green.

If you follow the latter approach, you will want to check the results on the Point Gamma chart (not shown), to be sure that you are tracking a relatively smooth gamma response. Because there are not obvious irregularities on the Luminance chart, chances are that you have a fairly decent (smooth) gamma curve. Whether it is at the right value or not is a different question, and that would be the next place to check once you've corrected the grayscale.

Hope this helps!

Bill