When learning the practices of calibration i bought an i1d2 meter and used hcfr, and frankly it worked well. However, recently it seems to be reading everything (even previous monitors i've calibrated successfully) too red. So i assume this is due to the filter degradation, or perhaps some other malfunction. And before anyone suggests that perhaps i am just not use to d65 (had that suggestion before), i know it is too red, it is visibly red shifted.
So, i am in the market for a new meter, and possibly tips on prolonging its life.
I am a college student so i don't have a ton of money. So, i'd like a meter that performs accurately on grayscale measurements, and if possible does cms somewhat accurately (though i know this is hard to come by in anything less than a spectrophotometer) with a Mitsubishi hc3000 DLP projector.
So, does anyone have any suggestions on meters besides a i1d2? And if not, anyone have any tips on how to prolong the accuracy life of an i1d2 meter if i go that route again? My last i1d2 really only lasted about 5-6 months before getting too inaccurate, and to me that is not very acceptable.

So, i am in the market for a new meter, and possibly tips on prolonging its life.I am a college student so i don't have a ton of money. So, i'd like a meter that performs accurately on grayscale measurements, and if possible does cms somewhat accurately (though i know this is hard to come by in anything less than a spectrophotometer) with a Mitsubishi hc3000 DLP projector. So, does anyone have any suggestions on meters besides a i1d2? And if not, anyone have any tips on how to prolong the accuracy life of an i1d2 meter if i go that route again? My last i1d2 really only lasted about 5-6 months before getting too inaccurate, and to me that is not very acceptable.

In the under $,1000 category, there are only two other choices that I know of - a Chroma 5 or an Eye-One Pro - check out SpectraCal's web site - www.spectracal.com for information on their software bundles with these meters. The Eye-One Pro will also work with HCFR but as far as I know the Chroma 5 does not. As for care for the Eye-One Display 2/LT, I store mine in a cool, dry, dark place (like inside an enclosed cabinet in it's original packaging or some kind of ziploc bag setup) - the main goal is to avoid moisture.

As for your current Eye-One Display, you say it is reading too much red or is it too little red? i.e. the Eye-One is telling you to add more red but when you get a proper color balance with the meter, things are then visibly red tinted when you look at a grayscale ramp/window patterns? If so, then it probably is a problem with the meter especially if it is happening on multiple display/display types.


hope this helps,


--tom

Does anyone know if the i1Pro can be purchased independently?

Does anyone know if the i1Pro can be purchased independently?

Sure they can. You can also find people selling their used i1 Pros.

Sure they can. You can also find people selling their used i1 Pros.

What Randy is trying to say is yes you can find the i1Pro from other sources.

But you need to make sure they:

Are the current rev D model
Have a NIST cert that has not expired or near
Not the UV cut version
Have all of the accessories included

If you find a cheaper i1Pro it's for a reason.

best deal is for sure the calman+i1pro bundle.

What Randy is trying to say is yes you can find the i1Pro from other sources.

But you need to make sure they:

Are the current rev D model
Have a NIST cert that has not expired or near
Not the UV cut version
Have all of the accessories included

If you find a cheaper i1Pro it's for a reason.

This response is somewhat comical considering the NIST comments and measurements you have made in the Orb Optronix SP-100 Reference Grade Spectrophotometer thread - especially as a meter can be out of reference in days after the NIST certification...If the meter can be shown as measuring similar to a meter that has current NIST calibration, according to the statements you made yourself in that thread, it would be fine....but I digress.

Anyone who wants to see the issues with this can read this post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14884784#post14884784

If someone wants a i1 Pro and does not want to pay for a REV D (of which most do not know what the difference in the 4 REVs have been), especially a college student on a budget, they might not need the latest REV. If they want to pay an extra few hundred for the current REV, then they should be aware of what it will actually do for them. Speed is not an issue for an amateur compared to someone trying to do a job in an hour or two.

Yes you get what you pay for, but that does not mean that someone must have the latest greatest REV if on a budget and can save several hundred bucks in the process.

While your business is to sell meters, not everyone needs the latest REV version and I certainly would rather have an older REV version than a new meter of lesser performance. I would certainly take an i1 Pro REV B with HCFR for $499 instead of a Chroma 5 with Calman for $499 if on a budget.

Yes you get what you pay for, but that does not mean that someone must have the latest greatest REV if on a budget and can save several hundred bucks in the process.

While your business is to sell meters, not everyone needs the latest REV version and I certainly would rather have an older REV version than a new meter of lesser performance. I would certainly take an i1 Pro REV B with HCFR for $499 instead of a Chroma 5 with Calman for $499 if on a budget.

If someone is on a budget then yes get the cheapest meter you can used or otherwise they just need to be made aware of the issues if it is used.

Actually we are in the business of developing and selling software not hardware. We make very little on the hardware we sell in some cases a ZERO profit margin. We include hardware as a service to offer complete packages so someone does not have to shop around. If we were in the business of selling hardware then you would see our hardware pricing 2x of what it is now.

If someone is on a budget then yes get the cheapest meter you can used or otherwise they just need to be made aware of the issues if it is used.


I believe that is what the OP stated in his original post in this thread and why I answered the way I did.

I am a college student so i don't have a ton of money. So, i'd like a meter that performs accurately on grayscale measurements, and if possible does cms somewhat accurately (though i know this is hard to come by in anything less than a spectrophotometer) with a Mitsubishi hc3000 DLP projector.

He does not need the latest/greatest REV if it can save him money.

In the under $,1000 category, there are only two other choices that I know of - a Chroma 5 or an Eye-One Pro - check out SpectraCal's web site - www.spectracal.com for information on their software bundles with these meters. The Eye-One Pro will also work with HCFR but as far as I know the Chroma 5 does not. As for care for the Eye-One Display 2/LT, I store mine in a cool, dry, dark place (like inside an enclosed cabinet in it's original packaging or some kind of ziploc bag setup) - the main goal is to avoid moisture.

As for your current Eye-One Display, you say it is reading too much red or is it too little red? i.e. the Eye-One is telling you to add more red but when you get a proper color balance with the meter, things are then visibly red tinted when you look at a grayscale ramp/window patterns? If so, then it probably is a problem with the meter especially if it is happening on multiple display/display types.


hope this helps,


--tom
Sorry for the late response, been busy. And i meant it reads too little red, which results in me having to raise the red above what i can visually tell is too red. I can see there is too much red in a grayscale pattern, and with individual gray swatches. And the exact same happens on other monitors, so thus far i've come to the conclusion that its my meter. However i've also tried different versions of hcfr and i1 drivers, but i get the same results.
Also, if the main enemy of the filters is moister, would desiccant bags/material help?

He does not need the latest/greatest REV if it can save him money.
Quite true, as long as the meter is functional, i wouldn't care too much about having the latest revision. But i would also agree with his point, one should at least be made aware of the risks of buying a used meter, especially filter based ones, who knows how much into degradation the filters may be.

Also, if the main enemy of the filters is moister, would desiccant bags/material help?

Jarrod,

Yes, they should help. I think Bear5K (Bill) posted his method on storing an Eye-One Display that involved two ziploc bags and desiccant. If you do a search for desiccant in the Calibration forum, you'll probably find the post.

Here is his post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15794405

hope this helps,


--tom

Jarrod,

Yes, they should help. I think Bear5K (Bill) posted his method on storing an Eye-One Display that involved two ziploc bags and desiccant. If you do a search for desiccant in the Calibration forum, you'll probably find the post.

Here is his post: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15794405

hope this helps,


--tom
Definitely take note of the warning against cheap dessicant packs. Many that you get from other electronics you purchase may have limited absorption or they shed dust over time (disintegrate). Some outdoor/hunting oriented stores may carry good quality packs that you can buy in something approximating bulk (e.g., for storage of guns over long periods of time). Some optical shops (think astronomy or high-end binoculars) may also have some.


Bill

Definitely take note of the warning against cheap dessicant packs. Many that you get from other electronics you purchase may have limited absorption or they shed dust over time (disintegrate). Some outdoor/hunting oriented stores may carry good quality packs that you can buy in something approximating bulk (e.g., for storage of guns over long periods of time). Some optical shops (think astronomy or high-end binoculars) may also have some.


Bill
Thanks, will be sure to watch which ones i buy then. Do you have any recommendations on particular desiccant brands?

Thanks, will be sure to watch which ones i buy then. Do you have any recommendations on particular desiccant brands?
Brands? No, not really. In point of fact, if you can control the dust, ordinary cat litter is actually a fairly good dessicant. There are some sophisticated ones out there that turn into a type of gel as they absorb moisture, but you get those out of a laboratory supply catalog (e.g., Sigma-Aldrich), and branding isn't really something you pay that much attention to for that sort of thing (kind of like brands for things like isopropyl alcohol).

Bill

Here is a link to a good assortment of quality silica gel desiccant packs.

http://www.campingsurvival.com/hysigelde.html

40 gram Silica Desiccant Pack:

http://www.campingsurvival.com/hysigelde40g.html

Use and Reactivation:

http://www.dehumidify.com/HydrosorbentReactivation.htm

In point of fact, if you can control the dust, ordinary cat litter is actually a fairly good dessicant.
I've been looking for good quality dessicant packs but those are really hard to come by.

I was wondering that if I make dessicant bags myself by using cat litter (silica gel) what material bag would be the best? I guess by selecting right kind of fabric should eliminate dust problem, or does it? Or maybe using several layers of fabric.

I've been looking for good quality dessicant packs but those are really hard to come by.

I was wondering that if I make dessicant bags myself by using cat litter (silica gel) what material bag would be the best? I guess by selecting right kind of fabric should eliminate dust problem, or does it? Or maybe using several layers of fabric.
When I spent time in laboratories, we used a big glass container that had cat litter on the bottom and then whatever we were drying out on a shelf above (somewhat like a countertop steamer). If you are going ahead with cat litter, the key is not moving it once the dust settles, and to put it in a dark place (sunlight = energy = dust). Only load the container once the dust has settled (a few days).

Note: I have not done this with optical gear before, only lab specimens, so I am extrapolating old procedures here. There may still be too much dust from kitty litter even after settling for it not to contaiminate the filters. However, if you can control dust and make the container air tight, the cat litter will absorb a phenomenal amount of moisture.

Bill

How serious silica gel dust problem is compared to say normal in house room conditions where are more or less dust in the air?
I have still original packing for my i1 LT and I was wondering would it be best to keep it there. Then just put it in big ziplock bag where I put some silica gel (which is inside bag made out of cotton or similar fabric).

I mean is silica gel dust problem so bad that it would make things worse than just storing i1 in its original packing in dark closet or similar?

How serious silica gel dust problem is compared to say normal in house room conditions where are more or less dust in the air?
I have still original packing for my i1 LT and I was wondering would it be best to keep it there. Then just put it in big ziplock bag where I put some silica gel (which is inside bag made out of cotton or similar fabric).

I mean is silica gel dust problem so bad that it would make things worse than just storing i1 in its original packing in dark closet or similar?
The Dude - I've had the most trouble with the cloth ones, but beyond that, it really should not be a big deal. Some are obviously more effective than others. If you want to be safe, spend the $10 - $20 for good ones you can "cook out". If you want to recycle packs from electronics purchases, go with more packs so they are each absorbing less moisture, and replace used packs periodically (i.e., each time you use it). You should be fine that way.

This isn't THAT big of a deal if you use a bit of a discerning eye for materials (e.g., cloth bags have their own decomposition problems) and some basic care.

Bill

Thanks. But if I want to make these bags myself (using cat litter) what would be the best material for bag? If any fabric is not good, then what about using paper (would normal A4 printer paper with edges taped to form a bag work at all, or coffee filter and would these prevent dust pollution)?

I can't find factory made bags around here (Europe) very easily and that's why making them myself is probably the best option.

About how much silica gel (weight) is needed to preserve i1?

Thanks. But if I want to make these bags myself (using cat litter) what would be the best material for bag? If any fabric is not good, then what about using paper (would normal A4 printer paper with edges taped to form a bag work at all, or coffee filter and would these prevent dust pollution)?

I can't find factory made bags around here (Europe) very easily and that's why making them myself is probably the best option.

About how much silica gel (weight) is needed to preserve i1?
"Best" would be a breathable synthetic that had pores small enough for water vapor, but that stopped the particulates. After that, you are into compromises. Rather than a bag, I would go with stackable containers, where the bottom container had the cat litter and the top container stored the meter(s). Drill holes in the top unit so that air can be exchanged, and do use a filtering membrane (coffee filter is not bad, but will need to be changed; a HEPA-type filter material would be better). Use duct tape, gaffer tape or aluminum tape ('real' duct tape) to seal the two containers together. A cup or two of dessicant will last a really, really long time, but let it settle in-place for a few days before placing the meter-bearing container on top of it and sealing the two together.

Bill

jarrod: There are 2 used Progressive Labs CA-6X setups in the for sale section. ghbliss is the developer and is posting here in your thread. That may be good value for you if on a budget.

"Best" would be a breathable synthetic that had pores small enough for water vapor, but that stopped the particulates. After that, you are into compromises. Rather than a bag, I would go with stackable containers, where the bottom container had the cat litter and the top container stored the meter(s). Drill holes in the top unit so that air can be exchanged, and do use a filtering membrane (coffee filter is not bad, but will need to be changed; a HEPA-type filter material would be better). Use duct tape, gaffer tape or aluminum tape ('real' duct tape) to seal the two containers together.

Thanks for you great help.

I probably go with the paper coffee filters (to make disposable bags I throw away when I need to open bag) where I pour in silica gel and seal it with tape. Then just put meter in its original pack inside ziplog bag and throw in one or two self made dessicant packs and store it in dark place.
Does that sound reasonable and good compromise (and would it provide the same results as using the bags come with electonics)? At least that would be very fairly easy to make and I does not matter if it is disposable solution because cat litter is cheap and come in a big bag that last for very long time.


A cup or two of dessicant will last a really, really long time, but let it settle in-place for a few days before placing the meter-bearing container on top of it and sealing the two together.

I did not quite understand why it needs to settle in? For dust or humidity?

How about when I want to use the meter. Should I let it settle in normal room humidity and for how long before using it, or is it usable right away?

I probably go with the paper coffee filters (to make disposable bags I throw away when I need to open bag) where I pour in silica gel and seal it with tape. Then just put meter in its original pack inside ziplog bag and throw in one or two self made dessicant packs and store it in dark place.
Careful on the "throwing" piece of this. Coffee filters are not very "tight" from a particulate standpoint. Laboratory filter paper would be better, but also should not be "tossed".

Does that sound reasonable and good compromise (and would it provide the same results as using the bags come with electonics)? At least that would be very fairly easy to make and I does not matter if it is disposable solution because cat litter is cheap and come in a big bag that last for very long time.Cat litter here in the states tends to be more of a clay substance, so it is inferior to the dedicated silica gels, but that's not a meaningful difference now. Your cat litter will absorb moisture as it ages, as well, so don't buy a big bag unless you have a cat!

I did not quite understand why it needs to settle in? For dust or humidity?All of these elaborate procedures are about controlling particulates ("dust").

How about when I want to use the meter. Should I let it settle in normal room humidity and for how long before using it, or is it usable right away?The meter should be relatively good to go, though you do want it to adjust to temperature of the display in question, e.g., let it sit in contact with a plasma or LCD screen for a half hour or so.

Bill

Careful on the "throwing" piece of this. Coffee filters are not very "tight" from a particulate standpoint. Laboratory filter paper would be better, but also should not be "tossed".

OK. Thanks again.


Cat litter here in the states tends to be more of a clay substance, so it is inferior to the dedicated silica gels, but that's not a meaningful difference now. Your cat litter will absorb moisture as it ages, as well, so don't buy a big bag unless you have a cat!

Here in Europe some stores sell silica gel based cat litter. Some call it crystal cat litter and often it is written on the bag that it is silica gel and of course when you know how silica gel looks like I guess you cannot go wrong.
I did not even think that any other type cat litter would work.
Luckily I have cats too but unfortunately they hate crystal cat litter I tried it some years ago. :)


All of these elaborate procedures are about controlling particulates ("dust").

OK that it good to know.

So to sum up. If I get some silica gel based cat little and put it in standard paper coffee filter and then close the open edge with tape, that should work well (should not dust if not tossed around) and that should be better choice than using some organic fabric? And next better solution would be using some windstopper material for bag but that would be only neglible better especially when stored in place where it will not be moved around?


The meter should be relatively good to go, though you do want it to adjust to temperature of the display in question, e.g., let it sit in contact with a plasma or LCD screen for a half hour or so.

OK. And thanks again for your help.

My Display2/LT went goofy on red after a couple of years of service as well. It would measure OK for about 30 min of operation and then the red would measure way high. Fix was to replace it. I'll admit that I did not care for it as well as I should. Lesson learned.

What affects the accuracy of a meter? In particular the i1pro. If I were to purchase a new one (latest rev) and store it as indicated above, does that mean it will remain accurate for a very long time? Or does it need to be re-calibrated every so often? Does it depend on how much it is used?
If these questions have been answered somewhere else, please redirect me to them.
Thanks.

What affects the accuracy of a meter? In particular the i1pro. If I were to purchase a new one (latest rev) and store it as indicated above, does that mean it will remain accurate for a very long time? Or does it need to be re-calibrated every so often? Does it depend on how much it is used?
If these questions have been answered somewhere else, please redirect me to them.
Thanks.
The holographic grating in the i1 Pro is not affected by moisture the way the color filters in a Display2 or Spyder2 are. Nothing too heroic needs to be done to store the unit, and its greatest bugbear is shock and vibration. If you travel with it, a nice case with foam padding is good, as is a padded camera bag. For around-the-house use, the box that it comes in will suffice, though I prefer to have one case (hah!) where I try to keep all of my calibration gear together. That being said, I have a lot of meters running around my place, as you might imagine, so this ends up being more of a goal than an actual accomplishment. :)

Bill

I managed to locate some factory made dessicant packs. I should get them next week.
Those are ESD approved and bag is dust free paper. Only thing is that those are probably clay based. Specs said moisture efficient is from 15% to 50% HR and they conform to DIN 55473/MIL D 3464.

Are these OK to store i1 (or should I have aimed for silica gel)?

Bags weight 5 grams (0.176 oz) each. I guess I need to use more than one?
I guess it is best to put just meter (with ambient light cover on) in a ziplock bag and then throw in dessicants, or would it be better to keep meter in its original packing and put it in a large ziplock bag. How many dessicant packs would be enough in those scenarios?

OK. I ended up putting my i1 Display LT in its original packing (I left cardboard box out) and then I put it inside ziplock bag. Then I threw in 3 pcs of 5 gram factory made clay based dessicant bags.
Lastly I put it in large cardboard box to keep it dark.

I also put in humidity indicator card that came with dessicant packs. Indicator shows blue when relative humidity is below or equal to 8% and turns rose when above. It actually turned lighter shade of blue, so my packing is slightly more humid than container where dessicant bags arrived but I guess it is still ok since there is very little humidity (what you think)?
Also I'm not sure how humidity indicator card actually works, meaning once it detects higher humidity does it go back dark blue when put in dry bag or not, so lighter shade of blue could have come from that card was on the table for a minute or so when I packed thing up.

By the way, when you store your i1 are you supposed to put ambient light cover on?
I did put it on to protect sensor but I'm not sure if it is meant to kept on for long periods of time. Does suction cups stuck or something like that?

By the way, when you store your i1 are you supposed to put ambient light cover on?
I did put it on to protect sensor but I'm not sure if it is meant to kept on for long periods of time. Does suction cups stuck or something like that?
I basically leave the diffuser sled on mine all the time. This should not give you any difficulties.

I basically leave the diffuser sled on mine all the time. This should not give you any difficulties.
Thanks. I think you are right. I took a closer look at sensor with diffuser on and it is formed so that there is small gap between suction cups and diffuser. So it is perfect protection cover for the sensor.