Hi, this is my first post on these forums.

I am having problems correctly setting up my HDTV using DVE (blu ray disc) on the playstation 3. I have been checking these and other forums all day and although this topic is mentioned I have not yet found a definative solution or guide.

So I have a 37" Hannspree HDTV Jt model. I got the DVE blu disc and had a go at calibrating my setup. I had the Ps3 setup to output at RGB limited and Y Pb/Cb for the blu ray playback. And Also super white ON.

Using these settings I got to the brightness (pluge pattern) setup on DVE. The first thing I noticed was that I could only see the 4% black bar, the other 2 were missing no matter how high I push the brightness. I understand that it is common for the 'below' black to be missing but not the 2% right?

So out of interest I forced te playback to RGB and magically I was able to see the 4% and the 2% black bars.

Now im totally discouraged because I know blu ray should not output at RGB so I soldiered on and tried my best to setup through Y Pb. And I just feel that the settings are wrong. Blu Ray looks okay (i tested with blade runner) not amazing and a bit dark....but games look really washed out (I know full mode makes things more vivid but blacks crush) It's hard to calibrate the brightness and contrast when I am missing the 2% black as I have tried to work it from the 4% and frankly it's just irritating that I can see it properly on RGB and not Y Pb lol

So really could someone please explain how to properly marry the PS3 game and blu ray settings and also explain why I could not see the correct patterns on Ypb but could on RGB.

I have loads more to say but this post is already stupidly long and my head is hurting from doing this all day. I just want the best possible display I can for both blu ray movies and ps3 games.

Should I calibrate using RGB so I can see the test patterns properly? I'm lost..

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Please someone....is Y cb knocking out my lower blacks? therefore giving me less definition in the black levels or what? this is killing me :S

Also when adjusting colour using the provided filters I can pretty much get the blue perfect, however the red is off and the green is way off, anyway of fixing this?

This is turning into an obsession now...

frankly it's just irritating that I can see it properly on RGB and not Y Pb lol

So use RGB.

Well Blu Ray is not meant to be used with RGB right?
I just don't understand why this happens...

Hi, this is my first post on these forums.

I am having problems correctly setting up my HDTV using DVE (blu ray disc) on the playstation 3. I have been checking these and other forums all day and although this topic is mentioned I have not yet found a definative solution or guide.

So I have a 37" Hannspree HDTV Jt model. I got the DVE blu disc and had a go at calibrating my setup. I had the Ps3 setup to output at RGB limited and Y Pb/Cb for the blu ray playback. And Also super white ON.

Using these settings I got to the brightness (pluge pattern) setup on DVE. The first thing I noticed was that I could only see the 4% black bar, the other 2 were missing no matter how high I push the brightness. I understand that it is common for the 'below' black to be missing but not the 2% right?

So out of interest I forced te playback to RGB and magically I was able to see the 4% and the 2% black bars.

Now im totally discouraged because I know blu ray should not output at RGB so I soldiered on and tried my best to setup through Y Pb. And I just feel that the settings are wrong. Blu Ray looks okay (i tested with blade runner) not amazing and a bit dark....but games look really washed out (I know full mode makes things more vivid but blacks crush) It's hard to calibrate the brightness and contrast when I am missing the 2% black as I have tried to work it from the 4% and frankly it's just irritating that I can see it properly on RGB and not Y Pb lol

So really could someone please explain how to properly marry the PS3 game and blu ray settings and also explain why I could not see the correct patterns on Ypb but could on RGB.

I have loads more to say but this post is already stupidly long and my head is hurting from doing this all day. I just want the best possible display I can for both blu ray movies and ps3 games.

Should I calibrate using RGB so I can see the test patterns properly? I'm lost..

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

FAQ
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14491190#post14491190

PS3 Settings for Blu-ray playback (all in PS3 Menus):

Video Settings
BD/DVD Cinema Conversion - Automatic
BD/DVD Upscaler - Off or Normal, depends on where you want it done (this setting controls whether the PS3 upconverts DVD or sends it out to the display as 480p - the PS3 does a good job with upconversion - you need something on the lines of the $5000-$6000 Lumagen Radiance video processor to do better than the PS3 can do, so most people will use Normal)
BD/DVD Video Output (HDMI) - YCbCr/YPbPr
24 Hz Output - On or Off as desired (this can only be used if your display supports 24p... or should I say, only if your display supports 24p WELL - there are some displays that don't do justice to 24p (Panasonic's 48Hz mode, for example, sucks)
Dynamic Range Control - Off
Audio Output Format - Linear PCM (new codecs are not bitstreamed so far)

Display Settings
Cross Color Reduction Filter - Off
RGB Full Range (HDMI) - Limited (sets 16-235 range for RGB sources)
YPbPr/YCbCr Super-White (HDMI) - On (enables above white 7 below black, PLUGE patterns will be incomplete without this setting)

Assuming your TV is newer with HDMI input(s), 90% or more of TVs with HDMI inputs convert incoming RGB to YCbCr, process the video (they only process video in YCbCr format), then convert the video to RGB again for display so you SHOULD use YCbCr with HDMI connections almost all the time - it avoids 2 unnecessary conversions which SHOULDN'T be a problem, but no sense allowing errors to creep in when they are easily avoided by staying in YCbCr.

My guess is that the settings listed above will solve your problem. I use them and get exactly what is expected from DVE. If you have an older TV with DVI connection(s)... well, you can get different results and settings may not follow the general "rules".

Thanks for the previous reply, but the settings you provided are exactly what I have already been using. I have been working on this for the past 2 days and feel I understand the majority of what i'm doing, this is why it's such a mystery. My tv does indeed use HDMI so there is no problem there. It's so frustrating because if I could get the 2% black to show I on YCbCr then I could calibrate properly using DVE (minus the colour issues..but thats something else to work on). Really I am lost, I really don't get why the bars show in RGB and not YCbCr....

FAQ
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14491190#post14491190

PS3 Settings for Blu-ray playback (all in PS3 Menus):

Video Settings
BD/DVD Cinema Conversion - Automatic
BD/DVD Upscaler - Off or Normal, depends on where you want it done (this setting controls whether the PS3 upconverts DVD or sends it out to the display as 480p - the PS3 does a good job with upconversion - you need something on the lines of the $5000-$6000 Lumagen Radiance video processor to do better than the PS3 can do, so most people will use Normal)
BD/DVD Video Output (HDMI) - YCbCr/YPbPr
24 Hz Output - On or Off as desired (this can only be used if your display supports 24p... or should I say, only if your display supports 24p WELL - there are some displays that don't do justice to 24p (Panasonic's 48Hz mode, for example, sucks)
Dynamic Range Control - Off
Audio Output Format - Linear PCM (new codecs are not bitstreamed so far)

Display Settings
Cross Color Reduction Filter - Off
RGB Full Range (HDMI) - Limited (sets 16-235 range for RGB sources)
YPbPr/YCbCr Super-White (HDMI) - On (enables above white 7 below black, PLUGE patterns will be incomplete without this setting)

Assuming your TV is newer with HDMI input(s), 90% or more of TVs with HDMI inputs convert incoming RGB to YCbCr, process the video (they only process video in YCbCr format), then convert the video to RGB again for display so you SHOULD use YCbCr with HDMI connections almost all the time - it avoids 2 unnecessary conversions which SHOULDN'T be a problem, but no sense allowing errors to creep in when they are easily avoided by staying in YCbCr.

My guess is that the settings listed above will solve your problem. I use them and get exactly what is expected from DVE. If you have an older TV with DVI connection(s)... well, you can get different results and settings may not follow the general "rules".

Thanks for the reply, but the setting you suggest are exactly what I have been using. I have been working on this for the past 2 days, reading forums, articles, going over the DVE videos etc etc and through all of this I have not found out why I cant see 2% black using YCbCr but can when forced to RGB. It's so so frustrating...I feel so close to getting a good setup, but I'm being held back by this issue...anyone else got any ideas? also any suggestions for the colour probs?

whoops didn't mean to double post...I thought the first one had not worked so I rewrote it

Well Blu Ray is not meant to be used with RGB right?
I just don't understand why this happens...

I'm not sure you're under this impression, there isn't any inherent problem with outputting RGB. It all gets turned back into RGB at some point, and if you're clipping outputting YCbCr and not with RGB, then by all means RGB is the superior choice in this situation. In a theoretical sense RGB is superior to YCbCr any way.

And as for why, it's probably your TV is clipping the YCbCr input. I am not that familiar with the PS3, but I was under the impression that RGB limited, or YCbCr superwhite ON both provided unclipped output, so if the YCbCr output with superwhite on is being clipped elsewhere such as in your display, just use the RGB output. You should be just fine.

And as for why, it's probably your TV is clipping the YCbCr input. I am not that familiar with the PS3, but I was under the impression that RGB limited, or YCbCr superwhite ON both provided unclipped output, so if the YCbCr output with superwhite on is being clipped elsewhere such as in your display, just use the RGB output. You should be just fine.

Yeah I will have to mess with this a bit. I did try to calibrate with DVE using RGB on the blu ray, but I seem to recall I could see both the 4% and 2% blacks, but when I adjusted it was making me turn the brightness down to practically 0. I shall have another look at this. I didn't fully try as I have read so much about how Blu Ray needs to be output through YCbCr to be optimal. I didn't realise that RGB would also be okay in certain situations. Thanks for your reply I will try it out more tomorrow, and see how the results go. I will report back. I'm very much a novice regarding these things and I'm learning as I go, so any help is always gonna be greatly appreciated.

I also hope I can find a decent balance between blu ray playback and game playback, because I use both and I dont want the PS3 games to look rubbish in sacrifice of movies....*sigh* it's a fine line this calibration game lol.

Yeah I will have to mess with this a bit. I did try to calibrate with DVE using RGB on the blu ray, but I seem to recall I could see both the 4% and 2% blacks, but when I adjusted it was making me turn the brightness down to practically 0. I shall have another look at this. I didn't fully try as I have read so much about how Blu Ray needs to be output through YCbCr to be optimal. I didn't realise that RGB would also be okay in certain situations. Thanks for your reply I will try it out more tomorrow, and see how the results go. I will report back. I'm very much a novice regarding these things and I'm learning as I go, so any help is always gonna be greatly appreciated.

I also hope I can find a decent balance between blu ray playback and game playback, because I use both and I dont want the PS3 games to look rubbish in sacrifice of movies....*sigh* it's a fine line this calibration game lol.

That's just the drawback of a PS3, no presets for different display modes.

I didn't fully try as I have read so much about how Blu Ray needs to be output through YCbCr to be optimal.

Not sure who is saying that, but they're wrong or grossly exaggerating. If done properly there will not be any difference at all. It's the done properly part which may not be the case which sometimes leads to differences, but in your case it sounds like sending RGB out is the right thing to do. Again, it all ends up at RGB in the end anyway. If your display still has active color controls and you're sending it RGB then you know it's moving back to YcbCr then again to RGB and this is an extra encode/decode step, which some people might rightly worry about, but done properly it should not be an issue.

Thanks for the previous reply, but the settings you provided are exactly what I have already been using. I have been working on this for the past 2 days and feel I understand the majority of what i'm doing, this is why it's such a mystery. My tv does indeed use HDMI so there is no problem there. It's so frustrating because if I could get the 2% black to show I on YCbCr then I could calibrate properly using DVE (minus the colour issues..but thats something else to work on). Really I am lost, I really don't get why the bars show in RGB and not YCbCr....

Is it REALLY the +2% bar that's missing or the -2% bar? The PLUGE pattern usually has 2 bars on a black background... black is 0% white. The +2% bar is a little brighter than black (2% in some PLUGE patters, 4% white in other PLUGE patterns). The other bar (-2%) may or may not be visible depending on how your display shows the "normal" video range for consumer video... 16-235. Digital 16=0% white... that's always the background of the PLUGE pattern.

Some TVs will not show any digital values lower than 16 no matter how bright you set the Brightness control... they make every digital value from 0-16 the same level... 0% white (aka black).

If your display is working that way, you can still use the PLUGE pattern to set Brightness... move Brightness high enough to see the +2% bar (or +4% on some patterns), then reduce the Brightness control so that bar disappears into the black/0% background. Now Brightness is set too low... but you know that the TV is set too dark. So raise the Brightness level 1-3 clicks to make that +2% bar easily visible, but not too bright. Whether you need 1, 2 , or 3 clicks on the Brightness control varies from TV to TV because some have very small changes for 1 click while others change quite a bit for 1 click of the Brightness control.

It's not uncommon for a TV that won't display blacker-than-black in YCbCr mode to be OK with blacker-than-black for RGB mode using the 16-235 "video" range of digital values. Be aware that RGB can also use the full range of 8-bits per color which means digita values of 0-255 which is commonly used in PC (computer) video. When you are using 0-255 there is no such thing as below black or above white... no digital values exist below 0 or above 255 when using "full range" 8-bit color.