I'm currently looking at a new plasma as a replacement for my 5 year old 57" RP CRT, and have basically narrowed it down to a 9G Kuro (6020 or 151) or a 12G Panny (58V10 or 58S1). In a new twist to the amount of obsessing I've been doing over this choice, I decided to calculate just how much I've spent on my old TV per month - adding the cost of the set back when I bought it to the cost of the ISF calibration I had done, and dividing that by the number of months I've owned it - and it came out to about $50.

Taking into account my total costs for a new plasma (set + ISF calibration + stand) and applying the same formula to the new sets I've been looking at, it turns out that I'd have to own any one of them for nearly 8, 9, or 10 years (58V10 with conservative MSRP estimate/6020 at current Amazon price/151 at current Amazon price, respectively) to have their costs average out to $50/month.

The question I'm trying to get at here, I suppose, is this: from what I can determine, today's plasmas - especially the higher-end models - are pretty much at their peak in terms of PQ for stuff like broadcast HD content, Blu-ray, and gaming. Incremental improvements, like slightly higher contrast ratios or 10% power consumption reductions, are things I can live with missing out on. But are there any display technologies coming along in the near future that are going to blow plasma away in terms of PQ/power consumption/value proposition, or is the next quantum leap a long way off?

Depends on your standards and only you can answer. Many are still happy with their HD CRTs

This is what I would like to know, too. How long much longer is it going to be before another plasma comes out that surpasses the overall picture quality of the 9G Elite Kuro? Next year? 2011? 2012? I wish there was a way to know.

no way to tell we cant look into the future. Just buy what u can now, and when something better comes along wait till you can afford it and buy that too.

Technology is moving faster now than it did 10-15 years ago. Newer and better stuff comes out every 6 months. Technology also doesn't seem to last as long as things you bought many years ago.

Knowing that ask yourself if you will be happy with a 60 inch 1080p set for the next 9 years. Who knows, by then cars might fly.

The thing that is in the works at the moment is thinner, lighter, brighter, blacker, smoother displays. Research OLED as it seems like the next thing to be out. All in all it's just a display and made for one purpose which is to display. With the lights off you won't notice what's making the image just the image. 1080p is still becoming the norm as only blu ray takes advantage of it. You should be easily set for the next 5 years.

I'm currently looking at a new plasma as a replacement for my 5 year old 57" RP CRT, and have basically narrowed it down to a 9G Kuro (6020 or 151) or a 12G Panny (58V10 or 58S1). In a new twist to the amount of obsessing I've been doing over this choice, I decided to calculate just how much I've spent on my old TV per month - adding the cost of the set back when I bought it to the cost of the ISF calibration I had done, and dividing that by the number of months I've owned it - and it came out to about $50.

Taking into account my total costs for a new plasma (set + ISF calibration + stand) and applying the same formula to the new sets I've been looking at, it turns out that I'd have to own any one of them for nearly 8, 9, or 10 years (58V10 with conservative MSRP estimate/6020 at current Amazon price/151 at current Amazon price, respectively) to have their costs average out to $50/month.

The question I'm trying to get at here, I suppose, is this: from what I can determine, today's plasmas - especially the higher-end models - are pretty much at their peak in terms of PQ for stuff like broadcast HD content, Blu-ray, and gaming. Incremental improvements, like slightly higher contrast ratios or 10% power consumption reductions, are things I can live with missing out on. But are there any display technologies coming along in the near future that are going to blow plasma away in terms of PQ/power consumption/value proposition, or is the next quantum leap a long way off?

IMO, you won't see any major advances in display technology in the next 5 years. I say that because the economic climate isn't conducive to spending a lot of money on R&D, when profit margins are shrinking. These companies will have to minimize all expenses, and operational costs and research(sadly enough)are some of the biggest ones. Other manufacturers will no doubt look at the superior quality of Pioneer and the failure of the best display in the market place. No matter what theory you entertain about the Pioneer demise, like poor marketing or high production costs, other manufacturers are going to be reluctant to spend huge sums of money on research.

These companies will have a difficult time just staying in business. I only see incremental improvement, in the next 5 years. Having said that, buy the 151 and IMO, you are good for 5 years.

I think any TV capable of 1080p should be 'future proof' as this resolution will allow you to view the best resolution cable, broadcast, as well as Blu Ray material. This is practically the 'end of the road' for HD quality video.

There is one other higher format above it that could be part of the HD definition, quad HD, but its not likely to happen until after 2015, at the least.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-definition_television#High-definition_display_resolutions

Of course, interval improvements in power consumption, size, contrast etc., can occur, but it could be less dramatic than a 50" 720p TV versus a 50" 1080p TV.

DLP TV's, will they even last 10 years in the market place? DLP is still around 50% of the projector market.
LED rear projection, another < 10 years technology.
CRT's ruled the roost until computers became ubiquitous, allowing these other technologies to develop (computers were needed for the manufacturing of the parts and microcomputers were a part of these new type of TV's).
7-8 years? Who knows. I can just see AVS in 2015, "These new built-in microprojection units for my walls, will they be future proof?"

I would think the slowing of the economy might slow down technology at a discounted price for the next few years as well. Perhaps new techs will take more time to come down. Companies will spend less (revamp exsiting models) instead of all new sets.

Is anything future proof ? Anyway... I've been looking at the same 2 choices to replace my Sony 57 inch RP CRT and I just have one question. Doesn't it make you nervous that Pioneer is not going to continue making plasmas ? What will happen in two or three years when you need parts for your four thousand dollar Pioneer ? That is why I'm leaning toward the Panny at this point.

Depends on your standards and only you can answer. Many are still happy with their HD CRTs

my 34XBR910 still kicking. bought it used for $190.

No tv is future proof. New Technology is always coming.

Just find a tv that you like and buy it to enjoy until the next greatest model that you must have comes out..

I think any TV that accepts 1080i over component is basically "future proof." Technology will evolve, sure, but that's a core standard that hasn't (and probably won't) change in the near future.

Personally I don't think you can really go wrong with today's offerings. Pick the right set that has the features you want in your budget, get it calibrated if you want, and enjoy it for 10-15 years.

Is anything future proof ? Anyway... I've been looking at the same 2 choices to replace my Sony 57 inch RP CRT and I just have one question. Doesn't it make you nervous that Pioneer is not going to continue making plasmas ? What will happen in two or three years when you need parts for your four thousand dollar Pioneer ? That is why I'm leaning toward the Panny at this point.

How can you be so sure that Panny will be around in a few years? Pioneer is not going out of business just the plasma aspect. They will still continue with car and home audio which means they will still be around to cover their warranty and if you buy an extended warranty and your TV is deemed unfixable then I am sure you will get a current model replacement if parts are not readily accessible. Doesn't make me nervous. Going out of production/business seems to be the norm everywhere as of lately.

my 34XBR910 still kicking. bought it used for $190.

I have a 34XBR960 that is still going

I have a 34XBR960 that is still going

I wish I still had my 40xbr800, that thing was awesome. It's still alive and I bought it in 2002 I think. Person I sold it to still loves it.

I'm currently looking at a new plasma as a replacement for my 5 year old 57" RP CRT, and have basically narrowed it down to a 9G Kuro (6020 or 151) or a 12G Panny (58V10 or 58S1). In a new twist to the amount of obsessing I've been doing over this choice, I decided to calculate just how much I've spent on my old TV per month - adding the cost of the set back when I bought it to the cost of the ISF calibration I had done, and dividing that by the number of months I've owned it - and it came out to about $50.

Taking into account my total costs for a new plasma (set + ISF calibration + stand) and applying the same formula to the new sets I've been looking at, it turns out that I'd have to own any one of them for nearly 8, 9, or 10 years (58V10 with conservative MSRP estimate/6020 at current Amazon price/151 at current Amazon price, respectively) to have their costs average out to $50/month.

The question I'm trying to get at here, I suppose, is this: from what I can determine, today's plasmas - especially the higher-end models - are pretty much at their peak in terms of PQ for stuff like broadcast HD content, Blu-ray, and gaming. Incremental improvements, like slightly higher contrast ratios or 10% power consumption reductions, are things I can live with missing out on. But are there any display technologies coming along in the near future that are going to blow plasma away in terms of PQ/power consumption/value proposition, or is the next quantum leap a long way off?
I'd like to buy your spare time.

It's all great fun here at AVS tearing apart all of the TV's performance but when I go to a store, hell they all look good enough for wonderful viewing experience for years to come.

Personally I don't think you can really go wrong with today's offerings. Pick the right set that has the features you want in your budget, get it calibrated if you want, and enjoy it for 10-15 years.
I doubt any modern electronics will last 10-15 years. The things will either break down, or we'll get itching and replace them :D

I did the cost calculation and my present TV ends up being $2 a month!

I wish I still had my 40xbr800, that thing was awesome. It's still alive and I bought it in 2002 I think. Person I sold it to still loves it.

Wasn't it fun moving those things around?:D I had the 40" Mitsubushi CRT that weighed 300lbs

Get a 151, break it in per D-nice instructions and then use the posted D-nice settings after calibration. That should get you 95% to a full pro cal, that should save you some money that you can now deduct from the total purchase price. I bet that only takes a few dollars out a month.:D

Hi,
Speaking of future-proof, I bought a Pioneer 503CMX with the PDA-5002 card and I was told that there would be new cards in the future as technologies change. Not many companies made cards for that model.

I bought it in 2002 and enjoyed it all these years. I was the first on my block with a plasma. Now I'm looking at a PDP-141FD if I can find one. If it lasts as long I'll be happy.

Steve

For me, I see more risk then I would like today. But I value extremely good blacks ( like 0 idle lumen) and low power usage. If these points are not important for you, I would suspect a new Kuro or the latest Neo Panasonics would do fine for years.


If Panasonic delivers on their eccNeo's panels, the "future proof" for me right might be only a year out, if they don't backoff current plans. If I drop the power or almost perfect black requirements, a Kuro wins on blacks, but loses on power today. Just the opposite for the new Neo Panasonics. And then their is the dark horse- LED LCDs

I agree that in modern electronice NOTHING is future proof
my last computer cost me over 3K and 6 months later it was outdated

Laser TVs are looking good, local-are dimming LCDs and OLED displays could be nice if they could keep the prices down. 1440p around soon? 1600p? In the tech world, there is always something better around the corner, if your waiting for the next big thing you will always be waiting. I have a feeling that even if your 9G Pioneer is eclipsed in 5 years it will still have a dynamite image and you won't exactly be kicking yourself.

Hi,
Speaking of future-proof, I bought a Pioneer 503CMX with the PDA-5002 card and I was told that there would be new cards in the future as technologies change. Not many companies made cards for that model.

I bought it in 2002 and enjoyed it all these years. I was the first on my block with a plasma. Now I'm looking at a PDP-141FD if I can find one. If it lasts as long I'll be happy.

Steve

Take a look at the 600M. It is extremely similar to the 141 and a good deal less expensive. Only lacks ISF modes. Other than that it is the same.

- Rich

You are replacing a 5 year old tv. There is absolutely zero chance that you will want to replace a pro151fd in 5 years as bad as you want to replace the current set. Thus you are future proofed, beter than your current situation.

720p on my 5080 looks amazing. 1080p on my 111 looks amazing. I couldn't imagine any more resolution and what the screen would look like as 720 vs 1080p to me is moot. Now there is that prototype toshiba (http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/07/toshiba-showing-off-56-inch-cell-based-4k-x-2k-hdtv-prototype-m/) which is 4k by 2k.

720p on my 5080 looks amazing. 1080p on my 111 looks amazing. I couldn't imagine any more resolution and what the screen would look like as 720 vs 1080p to me is moot. Now there is that prototype toshiba (http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/07/toshiba-showing-off-56-inch-cell-based-4k-x-2k-hdtv-prototype-m/) which is 4k by 2k.

Problem with a 56" at 4000 resolution...you have to sit so close to it to see the difference, that there is no room to squeeze a coffee table between it and the couch.

Probably good for 2 years before colour enhancements are refined. Look for Panasonic to buy Pioneer technology for instance for a starting point.

my 34XBR910 still kicking. bought it used for $190.

Todays asking price for these is outrageous. You could probably get 2-3 times what you paid.

Isn't it true that there will still be Pioneer-branded plasma even after this year? Its just that they will be with another supplier's (Panasonic?) panels/glass? But that Pioneer will still produce the other electronics to differentiate themselves from other suppliers?

Is that what's supposed to happen? I assumed that the Elite line will go away at least until (and if) the technology is bought, but Pioneer will still sell non-Elite branded plasmas. Is this true?

thanks,
Steve

But are there any display technologies coming along in the near future that are going to blow plasma away in terms of PQ/power consumption/value proposition, or is the next quantum leap a long way off?There have really only been two leaps (one of them "quantum") in displays over the last ten years.

The first leap was the introduction of flat-panel televisions (both plasma and LCD) that, along with HD broadcasts, made large-screen "home theater" -- and this Forum -- practical in the modest-size living rooms and bachelor batcaves where most of us dwell. My friend's purchase in 2003 of a $7000 plasma for his den proved that.

The second "leap" was more of an ooze: the evolution of my buddy's $7000 plasma down to $900 today, which means mere mortals can now own one. Initial cost aside, he sees no compelling reason to "upgrade" now.

Like the OP, I still have the $2500 RPTV I bought in 2001 (in lieu of the $10K plasma). With all due respect to the fanboys here, the PQ of this older display (after some long overdue maintenance), while slightly inferior, is not shamed by any of the modern display technologies. (Heck, it never occurred to me to worry about motion problems, or 4:3 burn-in, or an extended warranty for a bleeding-edge new-tech unit failing after a couple of years.) I will probably go ahead and buy a flatscreen soon, if only to free up some space in the house.

A few years ago, Chicken Littles were screeching that you had to "future-proof" upgrade your rig with HDMI because the studios would force manufacturers to cancel component video, obsoleting all the RPTVs. Didn't happen.

I'm more concerned about future-proofing America's remaining industries than I am my television.

Take a look at the 600M. It is extremely similar to the 141 and a good deal less expensive. Only lacks ISF modes. Other than that it is the same.

- Rich

Where can I get a 600M? I don't see it as readily available as the others?
Who sells it?

Just curious as to the price difference.
thx,
Steve

Isn't it true that there will still be Pioneer-branded plasma even after this year? Its just that they will be with another supplier's (Panasonic?) panels/glass? But that Pioneer will still produce the other electronics to differentiate themselves from other suppliers?

Is that what's supposed to happen? I assumed that the Elite line will go away at least until (and if) the technology is bought, but Pioneer will still sell non-Elite branded plasmas. Is this true?

thanks,
Steve

No, Pioneer is gone after this year.

Some of the published Kuro reviews found almost nothing lacking as far as picture quality. While not as dark a black level, some of the current Panasonics also have excellent picture quality. I don't really see any huge gains left to be made. Any increases in resolution, color gamut, etc are going to be small improvements over already stellar HD we have now. Everything in the near future will be backwards compatible with this year's displays.

My recommendations, in order...

1. Buy the '09 plasma of your choice.
2. Stop reading AVSForum afterwards.

If you first do number 2 above, you won't have to do number 1.

I don't think the 1080i standard will change any time in the near, or even mid-term (5-10 years) future. The transition for 480i analog to 1080i digital has been too painful and confusing for too many people. We got 1080p pretty easily. But that was only because there was no real cost advantage to making a display that could do 1080 line resolution, but couldn't do progressive scanning. But I think that's it for a long while.

So since the imput format is fixed, I think you'll just see incremental improvements in display technology - ie, blacker, contrastier, lsmoother, ighter weight, less power consumption, more features (whatever that may be), new display technologies, etc.. But if your set can display a full 1080p signal if it gets one, it's likely to be good for the next 5-10 years. Unless you need bigger or different packaging, or don't like your current PQ, there not going to be a compelling reason to upgrade.

FWIW, I did just upgrade, from a first generation Toshiba "HD ready" (not really) 4:3 CRT rear projector to a 63" Samsung plasma. When I bought the Toshiba, I gave it planned lifespan (in my use) of 3 years. This was at the dawn of HD (bought it New Years Day 1999), and I figured I'd find a real HD set to replace it with in three or so years. I kept it ten years, because I could never find a set that gave me the resolution and PQ I wanted, in the form factor I wanted, for what I was willing to pay, until now. The new set, I'm given no planned end date. I'm sure at some point it will be obsoleted, or (hopefully a long, long time from now) it will go belly up. But I don't see anything coming over the horizon that would make me get rid of it.

True 3D displays to synchronize with 3D blu-ray content is the next significant move in HT PQ.

Home 3D capable displays that look as good as the best 3D in the theaters will trump todays high-end plasmas.

FWIW, I did just upgrade, from a first generation Toshiba "HD ready" (not really) 4:3 CRT rear projector to a 63" Samsung plasma. When I bought the Toshiba, I gave it planned lifespan (in my use) of 3 years.My previous non-HD CRT RPTV is twelve years old and still going strong (at my mom's). I replaced it with a Toshiba HD CRT RPTV eight years ago -- still looks like new.

If Toshiba made a plasma -- well, ..... ......

OLED (in big sizes) is coming most likely in 2011. This will set a new standard. Only question now is will it be affordable????? or will we have to wait a couple of years till the price comes down???
No real answer as the ECONOMY, and other variables will decide the answer.