April Fools!:D Well, this is a headline I'd love to see! Of course it's all speculation and what if's, but over the past few days I've been reading various posts sprinkled around that suggest this may be possible. This had me thinking about those possibilities, and so I started this thread to see if others would also like to share their ideas on it.

Stranger things have happened in the world of consumer electronics, and Pioneer has so much invested in their design and innovation of their displays, I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks "what a waste". Which brings me to one idea and the possibility that Pioneer could partner up w/another company to make this happen. The Japanese like to play together, and one company, namely Canon, has been chomping at the bit to get into the display game. That's just one CE company, maybe there are others.

Another idea is that Pioneer demoed a 10 lumen-tech, 9mm thick, zero black Plasma TV at CES almost 2 years ago. The development of this all-new super thin display was far along the production path, and was scheduled to come out sometime in 2010, after the G10's were released. Not to mention Pioneer's all-new innovative "Fuga" video tech, which probably would've made it into this new TV design. Pioneer may somehow find a way to do a limited production for the "niche" market which would be made in Japan only. With super thin displays that weigh much less than current models, shipping may negate the need for a US assembly plant.

With all of Pioneer's G9 displays being snapped up all over North America, could it be that Pioneer will actually show a profit in 2009?? Pioneer has streamlined it's workforce, closed some factories, and is now perhaps emerging as a lean & mean working machine like company. Hard to believe a company that makes (yes, they are still making G9's in Japan) the very best display on the planet is just going to roll over and play dead after all the years of investment and innovation in the display market. I know, the economy is bad, but maybe they see light at the end of the tunnel, and a road to profitability after the big shakeup at the company.

Just a few ideas, and perhaps wishful thinking. But a guy can dream, can't he??:D If you've got any ideas on a "Pioneer Comeback", please share them.

April Fools!:D Well, this is a headline I'd love to see! Of course it's all speculation and what if's, but over the past few days I've been reading various posts sprinkled around that suggest this may be possible. This had me thinking about those possibilities, and so I started this thread to see if others would also like to share their ideas on it.

Stranger things have happened in the world of consumer electronics, and Pioneer has so much invested in their design and innovation of their displays, I'm sure I'm not the only one that thinks "what a waste". Which brings me to one idea and the possibility that Pioneer could partner up w/another company to make this happen. The Japanese like to play together, and one company, namely Canon, has been chomping at the bit to get into the display game. That's just one CE company, maybe there are others.

Another idea is that Pioneer demoed a 10 lumen-tech, 9mm thick, zero black Plasma TV at CES almost 2 years ago. The development of this all-new super thin display was far along the production path, and was scheduled to come out sometime in 2010, after the G10's were released. Not to mention Pioneer's all-new innovative "Fuga" video tech, which probably would've made it into this new TV design. Pioneer may somehow find a way to do a limited production for the "niche" market which would be made in Japan only. With super thin displays that weigh much less than current models, shipping may negate the need for a US assembly plant.

With all of Pioneer's G9 displays being snapped up all over North America, could it be that Pioneer will actually show a profit in 2009?? Pioneer has streamlined it's workforce, closed some factories, and is now perhaps emerging as a lean & mean working machine like company. Hard to believe a company that makes (yes, they are still making G9's in Japan) the very best display on the planet is just going to roll over and play dead after all the years of investment and innovation in the display market. I know, the economy is bad, but maybe they see light at the end of the tunnel, and a road to profitability after the big shakeup at the company.

Just a few ideas, and perhaps wishful thinking. But a guy can dream, can't he??:D If you've got any ideas on a "Pioneer Comeback", please share them.

I need some of whatever it you're smoking:D

i don't know what area's the economy is affecting the most, but in springfield, il.. our business has done record sales the past 5 months and the totals keep climbing!

I need some of whatever it you're smoking:D

I'm not smoking anything that would affect my judgement, but I do drink occaisionally.:D

Audi, you've been chopping on Pioneer and Plasma Tech in general for years, but just look what happens when it comes to you putting down your money where the rubber meets the road. You got out and buy a Pioneer TV AND a Pioneer AVR...go figure..?

PIoneer branded LCD :cool: Time will tell ;)

PIoneer branded LCD :cool: Time will tell ;)

I really wasn't speaking about LCD, but I suppose that could be a possibility as well. No, what I meant was that Pioneer ALREADY has a race horse in the barn, ready or almost ready to go. Namely, that gorgeous 9mm thin, 10-lumen tech, zero-black Fuga monster Plasma TV that was shown at CES 2008.

I am a little surprised they didn't sell the technology to some Chinese company like IBM did for their laptops. Some company like GE could be interested - they have been out of the TV business for a while, but they could use that plasma technology for their medical equipment or something like that. It seems like the plasma technology would be worth something to someone.

i don't know what area's the economy is affecting the most, but in springfield, il.. our business has done record sales the past 5 months and the totals keep climbing!

what biz are you in?

Is there a dead horse nearby?:cool:

I need some of whatever it you're smokingYou've already had way way too much :D

Not going to happen but would be nice.

I am a little surprised they didn't sell the technology to some Chinese company like IBM did for their laptops. Some company like GE could be interested - they have been out of the TV business for a while, but they could use that plasma technology for their medical equipment or something like that. It seems like the plasma technology would be worth something to someone.

This little fact also has me suspicious that Pioneer isn't really dead yet. Certainly it can happen, but so far nothing. Pioneer has thus far retained ALL of it proprietary patents and innovations. Something fishy here, wouldn't you say? Pioneer may have made press releases, re-shuffled the company and streamlined itself, but what does that actually mean?

Heck, if Pioneer actually shows a profit this year due to all those Kuro sales and re-organizing, then what's to stop them from flipping the switch to "on" again, and on a smaller scale begin to mfg. displays again...well, they really have not ever stopped mfg. displays at their Japan factory, have they?? I previously mentioned that Pioneer already has a race horse in the barn that's ready or near ready to go. Imagine "what if" Pioneer unleashed that stealth bad mama jama 9mm TV in 2010?? It would light-up the display market like nobody's business!

This little fact also has me suspicious that Pioneer isn't really dead yet. Certainly it can happen, but so far nothing. Pioneer has thus far retained ALL of it proprietary patents and innovations. Something fishy here, wouldn't you say? Pioneer may have made press releases, re-shuffled the company and streamlined itself, but what does that actually mean?

Heck, if Pioneer actually shows a profit this year due to all those Kuro sales and re-organizing, then what's to stop them from flipping the switch to "on" again, and on a smaller scale begin to mfg. displays again...well, they really have not ever stopped mfg. displays at their Japan factory, have they?? I previously mentioned that Pioneer already has a race horse in the barn that's ready or near ready to go. Imagine "what if" Pioneer unleashed that stealth bad mama jama 9mm TV in 2010?? It would light-up the display market like nobody's business!


That would be great, and if they decide not to do it, then they can always sell the Kuro tech later on.

I'm not smoking anything that would affect my judgement, but I do drink occaisionally.:D

Audi, you've been chopping on Pioneer and Plasma Tech in general for years, but just look what happens when it comes to you putting down your money where the rubber meets the road. You got out and buy a Pioneer TV AND a Pioneer AVR...go figure..?

I love my Kuro and my receiver. What a fantastic combination:D

This little fact also has me suspicious that Pioneer isn't really dead yet. Certainly it can happen, but so far nothing. Pioneer has thus far retained ALL of it proprietary patents and innovations. Something fishy here, wouldn't you say? Pioneer may have made press releases, re-shuffled the company and streamlined itself, but what does that actually mean?



How about it means that they are out of the plasma business. Do you think they made a false announcement for some strategic reason? That they are going to jump out of the phone both as Superman, or that they mistakenly thought it was April Fools Day when they made the announcement? It's serious stuff when the Board of Directors makes a game changing announcement to the shareholders that impacts the stock share price.

Instead of throwing in the towel, shame Pioneer could not just reduce prices. There has to be a way to cut cost but maintain the same image quality. If they sell 1 set and make a 500 profit I would rather sell 2 sets at only 250 profit but sell more sets because the price is reasonable. Obviously spend some money on putting a Kuro on an end cap at all electronic stores like Sharp, Sony, and Samsung do. Calibrated and running Blu Ray. I mean you can go into a Best Buy and talk to a Panasonic Rep. Pioneer screwed themselves.

I love my Kuro and my receiver. What a fantastic combination:D

:eek:

How about it means that they are out of the plasma business. Do you think they made a false announcement for some strategic reason? That they are going to jump out of the phone both as Superman, or that they mistakenly thought it was April Fools Day when they made the announcement? It's serious stuff when the Board of Directors makes a game changing announcement to the shareholders that impacts the stock share price.
Not knowing your age do you remember when Coke come out with "new" Coke? Stranger things have happened without violating an SEC rule - companies change decisions/strategies all the time. The Coca-Cola blunder is a classic (no pun intended :)) example. That doesn't mean the Board wouldn't want someone's head and a few shareholders wouldn't sue.

How about it means that they are out of the plasma business. Do you think they made a false announcement for some strategic reason? That they are going to jump out of the phone both as Superman, or that they mistakenly thought it was April Fools Day when they made the announcement? It's serious stuff when the Board of Directors makes a game changing announcement to the shareholders that impacts the stock share price.

Good point and perhaps you're right. But then again, the credit wolves were at the front gate, and Pioneer had its back against the wall. Situations can change, and in the CE biz, it can change pretty fast. Try to put bias aside for a moment, don't you find any of the previous facts I mentioned a bit on the suspicious side? I do.

I like your idea about the Pioneer+canon relationship. Maybe Pioneer can get their glass from them instead of panasonic...Sweet!

cajieboy, thanks for the optimistic views but get more real......

pioneer looked at losses and decided to call it quits. even looking forward to lower cost using outsourcing to panny, pioneer still doens't see a viable=profitable future for their plasma business.

those added sales lately have come at a cost that does not help the bottom line, they maybe moving some more units but it does not really help profits. they lowered msrp on the 9g and have been giving more dealer incentives to move what inventory they had already planned on producing this model cycle. that makes the people that buy or want to buy pioneer panels happier but if they continue to lose money on them as they have done for several years, it just makes proper business sense to shut it down before it takes the whole company down.

plus you can't say it's actually added sales unless you knew their sales numbers. look there are new owners getting units that have jun/july 2008 manf dates out of bb warehouses(pioneers #1 reseller). thats not added sales thats moving old stock and it has cost them incentive money=loses not profits to do that.

Ok your "What If", first question is at "What Price". of course it would be great to see it available but just like the first 1080p FHD1 at $10,000....... would it sell, yes to some but will it save the Pioneer plasma division, no way. Just like a $$40,000 Viper or Corvette ZR1 would not save Chrysler or GM.

with 52" LCD and 50" plasmas in the $1500-2000 range (and going lower) if Pioneer brought out that 50" bad mama jama 9MM 0 ECC at even a low ball price like $3000-4000 that still is not going to make them profitable, and that's the bottom line sorry to squash your optimistic dreams.

Pioneer probable will sell their tech/patents/ideas just give them time on getting that done.

Instead of throwing in the towel, shame Pioneer could not just reduce prices. There has to be a way to cut cost but maintain the same image quality. If they sell 1 set and make a 500 profit I would rather sell 2 sets at only 250 profit but sell more sets because the price is reasonable. Obviously spend some money on putting a Kuro on an end cap at all electronic stores like Sharp, Sony, and Samsung do. Calibrated and running Blu Ray. I mean you can go into a Best Buy and talk to a Panasonic Rep. Pioneer screwed themselves.

Your math is wrong. If they lose money selling one set they will lose more money selling two sets. You assume they were making $500 profit on each unit. No, they were losing money on each unit.

Good point and perhaps you're right. But then again, the credit wolves were at the front gate, and Pioneer had its back against the wall. Situations can change, and in the CE biz, it can change pretty fast. Try to put bias aside for a moment, don't you find any of the previous facts I mentioned a bit on the suspicious side? I do.

No, I find none of your assumptions compelling. They fly in the face of what actually happened. They were losing massive amounts of money. They weren't kidding about getting out of the business and have been contemplating this for some time. They made it official with an announcement to their stockholders.

PIoneer branded LCD :cool: Time will tell ;)

But this would assuredly simply be a sharp repackaged lcd like their current ones. There is no way pioneer will invest money in their own manufacturing run, and since sharp owns them, they must use their pretty terrible panels. Pioneer have no expertise in this area, so there is no way they would start up a massive R&D undertaking in the tech, they would merely piggyback sharp. Or perhaps more appropriately, sharp would piggyback them.

All the kuro tech has to do with plasma, not lcd. There is minimal area for improvement left with the kuro plasma tech, but if you attempted to apply it to sharp lcds you would get a "kuro" with worsened several areas including contrast, blacks, viewing angles, and motion resolution. Not even close to a kuro anymore.

Right now I am hoping they sell the current elites as long as possible so we keep the reference display on the market. Then in 2010 either they or panasonic actually releases a successor. The 9G elites are that good and ahead of everything else that a two year product cycle is certainly feasible There is nothing in 2009 that will come close to touching it, and that speaks to the superiority of the elites more than anything. Their expertise in plasma development will hopefully not go wasted beyond 2010.

But a kuro sharp lcd? This would probably be bested by many other panels, of course including the G9 kuro plasmas. Like other uber-pricey lcds, they would also sell extremely poorly (who would pay XBR8ish prices for a sharp lcd?). The lcd arena is even more commoditized right now than plasmas.

Most people thinking about a high end set buy an elite. They are far more popular (and better reviewed) than the XBR8s for example. Pioneer did not make them profitable, but they surely made them popular among the shrinking high end and videophile segment. Its too bad they didn't have all those less expensive lines to fall back on in this commoditized environment like all those middling low/mid-priced lcds, but that was never their strategy.

I love my Kuro and my receiver. What a fantastic combination:D


Now it's time to fly d-nice in for calibration :)

cajieboy, thanks for the optimistic views but get more real......

pioneer looked at losses and decided to call it quits. even looking forward to lower cost using outsourcing to panny, pioneer still doens't see a viable=profitable future for their plasma business.

those added sales lately have come at a cost that does not help the bottom line, they maybe moving some more units but it does not really help profits. they lowered msrp on the 9g and have been giving more dealer incentives to move what inventory they had already planned on producing this model cycle. that makes the people that buy or want to buy pioneer panels happier but if they continue to lose money on them as they have done for several years, it just makes proper business sense to shut it down before it takes the whole company down.

Ok your "What If", first question is at "What Price". of course it would be great to see it available but just like the first 1080p FHD1 at $10,000....... would it sell, yes to some but will it save the Pioneer plasma division, no way. Just like a $$40,000 Viper or Corvette ZR1 would not save Chrysler or GM.

with 52" LCD and 50" plasmas in the $1500-2000 range (and going lower) if Pioneer brought out that 50" bad mama jama 9MM 0 ECC at even a low ball price like $3000-4000 that still is not going to make them profitable, and that's the bottom line sorry to squash your optimistic dreams.

Pioneer probable will sell their ideas just give them a littel more time on getting that done.

You're right, it's totally optimistic, and as I said in the first post it is all speculation. But speculation based on a some facts. I've been around this CE game for many years, and I've seen companies come & go, but it's very rare to see a company like Pioneer fall in this manner. In hindsight, we've already discussed the many pitfalls that Pioneer made in pricing, poor marketing, plunking huge sums of cash for an outdated NEC factory, etc. etc. A "perfect storm". That's pretty much all water under the bridge now, but perhaps Pioneer has learned a lot from its past mistakes, and maybe the storm is passing. Pioneer STILL makes the very best display on the planet, and has NOT sold their proprietary patents to anyone. The Pioneer company now has a lot less overhead than was the case just 90 days ago, and as I've mentioned before the situation can change.

You're right, it's totally optimistic, and as I said in the first post it is all speculation. But speculation based on a some facts. I've been around this CE game for many years, and I've seen companies come & go, but it's very rare to see a company like Pioneer fall in this manner. In hindsight, we've already discussed the many pitfalls that Pioneer made in pricing, poor marketing, plunking huge sums of cash for an outdated NEC factory, etc. etc. A "perfect storm". That's pretty much all water under the bridge now, but perhaps Pioneer has learned a lot from its past mistakes, and maybe the storm is passing. Pioneer STILL makes the very best display on the planet, and has NOT sold their proprietary patents to anyone. The Pioneer company now has a lot less overhead than was the case just 90 days ago, and as I've mentioned before the situation can change.


Have you seen the economy like this?

Have you seen the economy like this?

No, never...and it's why I don't have a 141 or 151 sitting in my living room right now! Wife/Finance Committe won't approve it. As my thread implies, "I'm optimistic"!:D

how many have you seen go complelety and then come back?

look the Kuro owners are lucky to even have the 8G and 9G Kuros as Pioneer has been losing money for several years and they could have decided to shutdown the plasma division before the Kuros ever came out.

they better sell it fast as other tech advances it will be worth less and less and it didn't help Pioneer make enough money to stay in business.

how many have you seen go complelety and then come back?

look the Kuro owners are lucky to even have the 8G and 9G Kuros as Pioneer has been losing money for several years and they could have decided to shutdown the plasma division before the Kuros ever came out.

they better sell it fast as other tech advances it will be worth less and less and it didn't help Pioneer make enough money to stay in business.

Well...they really haven't left yet, have they?? The factory in Japan is still mfg. Kuro G9's and shipping, and here in North America the Pioneer Kuro G9 is a top seller in their market...the biggest market in the world. So, here we have the very best display on the planet, and selling displays as fast as Pioneer can make them, but yet Pioneer is "dead". Don't sound or smell much like "dead" to me.

cajieboy, thanks for the optimistic views but get more real......

pioneer looked at losses and decided to call it quits. even looking forward to lower cost using outsourcing to panny, pioneer still doens't see a viable=profitable future for their plasma business.

those added sales lately have come at a cost that does not help the bottom line, they maybe moving some more units but it does not really help profits. they lowered msrp on the 9g and have been giving more dealer incentives to move what inventory they had already planned on producing this model cycle. that makes the people that buy or want to buy pioneer panels happier but if they continue to lose money on them as they have done for several years, it just makes proper business sense to shut it down before it takes the whole company down.

plus you can't say it's actually added sales unless you knew their sales numbers. look there are new owners getting units that have jun/july 2008 manf dates out of bb warehouses(pioneers #1 reseller). thats not added sales thats moving old stock and it has cost them incentive money=loses not profits to do that.

Ok your "What If", first question is at "What Price". of course it would be great to see it available but just like the first 1080p FHD1 at $10,000....... would it sell, yes to some but will it save the Pioneer plasma division, no way. Just like a $$40,000 Viper or Corvette ZR1 would not save Chrysler or GM.

with 52" LCD and 50" plasmas in the $1500-2000 range (and going lower) if Pioneer brought out that 50" bad mama jama 9MM 0 ECC at even a low ball price like $3000-4000 that still is not going to make them profitable, and that's the bottom line sorry to squash your optimistic dreams.

Pioneer probable will sell their tech/patents/ideas just give them time on getting that done.

I really cant disagree more, your comments imply that Pioneer is looking for short term profits..they never have and they never will, they were are still are a "long run" company..that might difficult to find in todays environment but you are just going to have to accept that a company can have that much "CLASS"...They have and will always be the KING OF HOMETHEATER.....when they are finally gone off to the suset.....I hope you get more REAL.....

Just like a $$40,000 Viper or Corvette ZR1 would not save Chrysler or GM.

Find me a new 2009 ZR1 corvette for $40 g's and I will take it ;)
<<< Click Here >>> (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQaas5NbIlw&feature=related)

BIG, BIG IF......................

Should the economy rebound by the end of the year and demand for PLASMAS rebound as well, perhaps PIONEER might return to the market or import their PLASMAs from JAPAN.
While it's posssible, personally I think with OLED around the corner the PLASMA is at the end of its cycle and why would PIONEER want to continue PLASMAS to only get bashed again.
POSSIBLY, PIONEER ELITE LCD OR PIONEER ELITE OLED might be something they might return to in the future. ONLY TIME WILL TELL.

what biz are you in?

Obviously he's a repo man :D

BIG, BIG IF......................

Should the economy rebound by the end of the year and demand for PLASMAS rebound as well, perhaps PIONEER might return to the market or import their PLASMAs from JAPAN.
While it's posssible, personally I think with OLED around the corner the PLASMA is at the end of its cycle and why would PIONEER want to continue PLASMAS to only get bashed again.
POSSIBLY, PIONEER ELITE LCD OR PIONEER ELITE OLED might be something they might return to in the future. ONLY TIME WILL TELL.

I must disagree w/the statement that "Plasma is at the end of its cycle". OLED has quite a ways to go before you'll ever see 50"-60" displays at anything close to affordable prices. So, we're talking 2014 or 2015 for OLED...if they can make it, which has yet to be proven.

Pioneer already had built a prototype of what most would consider the "perfect flat panel TV", and it was demoed at CES 2008. This all-new Pioneer has 9mm thickness that weighed far less than current displays, the TV has 10-lumen tech for much lower power usage and higher brightness, zero black levels, accurate greyscale, accurate color gamut, 1080p, and to boot I imagine this TV would incorporate Pioneer's super all-new video processing tech called "Fuga".

This Pioneer Plasma TV is ready or near ready to go into production right now. Not a pipe dream, not a handful of wishful thinking, but rather the "REAL DEAL". If you thought the Kuro was a big jump forward in flat panel video tech (which in fact it is), then you can imagine that this all-new Pioneer Plasma TV would be another big leap. The Kuro was an "SED KILLER", and I think Pioneer's innovative new TV would certainly give OLED a run for its money.

I need some of whatever it you're smoking:D

I think it's a big blunt of optimism.

They should sell their technology to me. I'll start a plasma business out of my basement.

I'll call it..... Pionear

They should sell their technology to me. I'll start a plasma business out of my basement.

I'll call it..... Pionear

So you must be that guy selling those Sonay and Parasonics?

Find me a new 2009 ZR1 corvette for $40 g's and I will take it ;)

yes, chris alot of us would take both a 2009 ZR1 and a Viper,....BUT the point remains the same, it would not save GM or Chrysler. just like a 10G 9MM 0 ECC Pioneer panel was not going to save the Pioneer Plasma division.

I really cant disagree more, your comments imply that Pioneer is looking for short term profits..they never have and they never will, they were are still are a "long run" company..that might difficult to find in todays environment but you are just going to have to accept that a company can have that much "CLASS"...They have and will always be the KING OF HOMETHEATER.....when they are finally gone off to the suset.....I hope you get more REAL.....

I bought a 60" Elite and guarantee i have helped sell quite a few others too. i put my money in and made my choice with Pioneer just like you did with your FHD1 and many many other owners here on the forums and all over america.

I agree Pioneer is not looking for short term profits. BUT they have been losing money for SEVERAL YEARS IN A ROW. Not just now that the economy has turned bad in the last 1 1/2 years. Pioneer was losing market share and losing money even before that when America was on a roll and people were over spending like crazy.

Pioneer execs looked at past results and future expectations and they got REAL and they decided to shut the plasma division down.

Look I was as disappointed as anyone when Pioneer announced no more plasma, no 10G etc. I was guaranteed by my Elite dealer early last year to be first on a preorder list if the 10G were as planned with 0 ECC and came out with a 65-70" screen size.

Yes dissturbo1, we all got that same info when it occurred back in January, and already know the negative. but is there any positive scenario you could imagine that would reverse this situation? I came up with a few...joining forces w/another CE company, scaling back to produce a limited production of niche market displays, or rolling out their monster 9mm Fuga "OLED KILLER".

PS: On the Corvette...I'll take 2, please!:D

cajieboy, at what price point would you and others pay to buy this 9mm fuga bad mama jamma panel??? (please drop any killer reference).

start with a pro111 at $4500 msrp + add ~$1000 for the new tech + plus add $1500 to make up loses Pioneer was already incurring + add more $2000 for the very limited production they would run. So you end up with a $9000 50" 9mm bad mama jamma display. get a good deal from a forum sponsor and it cost say $6500.....would you buy a 50" for that??

the only hope would be for Pioneer to sell the tech to Panasonic and it come out in 2010.

cajieboy, at what price point would you and others pay to buy this 9mm fuga bad mama jamma panel??? (please drop any killer reference).

start with a pro111 at $4500 msrp + add ~$1000 for the new tech + plus add $1500 to make up loses Pioneer was already incurring + add more $2000 for the very limited production they would run. So you end up with a $9000 50" 9mm bad mama jamma display. get a good deal from a forum sponsor and it cost say $6500.....would you buy a 50" for that??

the only hope would be for Pioneer to sell the tech to Panasonic and it come out in 2010.

I apologize for the "OLED KILLER" remark. I knew it was going overboard and meant more as a joke. This thread is suppose to be fun!:D Anyway, pleased to read your take on it, and yes, a deal w/Panasonic is certainly a possibility. Although, I had read a rumor that Panny reneged on their deal to supply glass and pushed back the opening of their new factory. Thereby, putting the final nail in Pioneer's plans to become profitable, and leaving them w/little option other than to fold tent on their display division. True or not, I don't know, but there could be some bad blood between these two companies if this was the case.

Not sure I go along on your math calculations regarding pricing on the 9mm bad mama-jama display if Pioneer ever released it. Where did you come up w/those numbers?I know it was the glass making process that Pioneer wanted desparately to farm out as they claimed this was the main reason they were not seeing a profit before. Also, not sure if this glass process has now been more streamlined and cheaper to produce since they went to the one-glass design. Lots of questions..

I need some of whatever it you're smoking:D

Pretty sure you've been smoking something better. ;)

cajieboy, at what price point would you and others pay to buy this 9mm fuga bad mama jamma panel???

dssturbo, that's a good question and a valid one. True, no matter if you make the absolute very best display on the planet, if no one but a very few can afford it then you're toast. Then again, you have niche market companies like Bang & Olufsen or Runco, etc. that do just that very thing. On the audio side of HT, you see many more of these niche market companies producing an extremely high-end product, and many have been in business a long time.

In Pioneer's case, I don't think there is just one thing you can point to that made them fold tent, but rather a whole series of events and circumstances that created a "perfect storm" of sorts. Wouldn't it be sweet if Pioneer shows a healthy profit in this first quarter of 2009? Right smack dab in the middle of a world wide recession , and Pioneer can't make their displays fast enough to keep w/demand. I think Pioneer just found the sweet spot for their pricing issue, and this is my answer as well. In my mind, I think a "fair" competitive price for the Elites are where they are right now, and this is what I would expect to pay street for if Pioneer released that bad 9mm mama-jama Fuga monster Plasma TV!

PS: A bit a early flat panel history...in 2002, I went to an Ultimate Electronics Store in Oklahoma City to demo TV's, and the price tag for a Pioneer Elite 50" HDTV was $15,000. What do you think will be the MSRP for a first or second generation 50" OLED? Right now, you can go buy the one and only Sony OLED 11" TV for $2400.00. Car analogies rarely apply accurately to consumer electronics.

Robert or anyone else that may have some inside Pioneer info, please chime in and give us the scoop. Do you think Pioneer will be reversing its decision to totally leave the display market?

Robert or anyone else that may have some inside Pioneer info, please chime in and give us the scoop. Do you think Pioneer will be reversing its decision to totally leave the display market?
Last night I had a personal meeting with Pioneer's EVP and other executives in Dallas, TX. I was told Pioneer is not selling their Kuro name or the patents that give them the Kuro deep black superiority.

As we know Pioneer transferred 200 pdp engineers to Panasonic, but did not give up their filter or processing engineers.

During our conversation I was thinking that maybe Pioneer may have some interest in completing the development of the next gen of Kuros so I directly asked if their were a chance we might see Pioneer come out with the 10G Kuro and all he would say is never say never.

-Robert

BIG, BIG IF......................

Should the economy rebound by the end of the year and demand for PLASMAS rebound as well, perhaps PIONEER might return to the market or import their PLASMAs from JAPAN.
While it's posssible, personally I think with OLED around the corner the PLASMA is at the end of its cycle and why would PIONEER want to continue PLASMAS to only get bashed again.
POSSIBLY, PIONEER ELITE LCD OR PIONEER ELITE OLED might be something they might return to in the future. ONLY TIME WILL TELL.

Plasma is nowhere near the "end of its cycle". It is a relatively mature technology, providing the very highest quality at affordable prices. Manufacturers are not about to give up on a cost effective technology!

As for OLED, it is not the "end all" of all technologies as some seem to think; it too has its issues. OLED's also have burn-in problems, especially in the blue part of the spectrum, and I believe that, at present, it is a bigger issue than it is with plasmas. Competitively priced OLED's in large sizes and resolutions are still a good many years away. I believe that most manufacturers are more interested in profits, and will concentrate on the already cost-effective plasma and LCD technologies.

Last night I had a personal meeting with Pioneer's EVP and other executives in Dallas, TX. I was told Pioneer is not selling their Kuro name or the patents that give them the Kuro deep black superiority.

As we know Pioneer transferred 200 pdp engineers to Panasonic, but did not give up their filter or processing engineers.

During our conversation I was thinking that maybe Pioneer may have some interest in completing the development of the next gen of Kuros so I directly asked if their were a chance we might see Pioneer come out with the 10G Kuro and all he would say is never say never.

-Robert

this sounds as good news!

Last night I had a personal meeting with Pioneer's EVP and other executives in Dallas, TX. I was told Pioneer is not selling their Kuro name or the patents that give them the Kuro deep black superiority.

As we know Pioneer transferred 200 pdp engineers to Panasonic, but did not give up their filter or processing engineers.

During our conversation I was thinking that maybe Pioneer may have some interest in completing the development of the next gen of Kuros so I directly asked if their were a chance we might see Pioneer come out with the 10G Kuro and all he would say is never say never.

-Robert
So there is some hope!

Last night I had a personal meeting with Pioneer's EVP and other executives in Dallas, TX. I was told Pioneer is not selling their Kuro name or the patents that give them the Kuro deep black superiority.

As we know Pioneer transferred 200 pdp engineers to Panasonic, but did not give up their filter or processing engineers.

During our conversation I was thinking that maybe Pioneer may have some interest in completing the development of the next gen of Kuros so I directly asked if their were a chance we might see Pioneer come out with the 10G Kuro and all he would say is never say never.

-Robert

Robert, thanks for sharing that bit of info from Pioneer. After reading it my eyes lit up and it definitely made my day. Then a few hours ago, I read a "Kuro Press Release" reprinted on Engadget.com and dated 3/24/2009 that stated Pioneer's plan to end all production of displays in April. Did you read or hear of this too? What's your thoughts on it?

I read a "Kuro Press Release" reprinted on Engadget.com and dated 3/24/2009 that stated Pioneer's plan to end all production of displays in April. Did you read or hear of this too? What's your thoughts on it?

Maybe that they will no longer produce plasmas after April? :D I know you think this is some big conspiracy and that they will yell "surprise" some time in the future.

Maybe that they will no longer produce plasmas after April? :D I know you think this is some big conspiracy and that they will yell "surprise" some time in the future.

No, I never thought there was any conspiracy that spelled Pioneer's demise for their display division. I just thought that Pioneer may have a developed another business plan and reverse their decision to exit the TV market. Companies change & alter plans all the time, so that doesn't seem too far fetched when you consider that Pioneer has had the absolute best display on the planet for 3 straight years w/a huge loyal base from consumers, and has already poured a lot of money in R&D w/another 2 display models ready or near ready to go into production that would again raise the PQ bar waaay ahead of the herd. Nope, no conspiracy, just a damn shame and a waste.

As Robert said earlier, "never say never", so maybe Pioneer will re-enter the display market at some other time in the near future.

I just thought that Pioneer may have a developed another business plan and reverse their decision to exit the TV market. Companies change & alter plans all the time, so that doesn't seem too far fetched

Very far fetched and you obviously don't understand how this works. When a company makes a major announcement to the industry and shareholders that materially impacts their stock price and that issue was considered and voted on by their Board of Directors, then they don't go back and undo what has been done. Your idea was wildly far fetched with little precedence.

Very far fetched and you obviously don't understand how this works. When a company makes a major announcement to the industry and shareholders that materially impacts their stock price and that issue was considered and voted on by their Board of Directors, then they don't go back and undo what has been done. Your idea was wildly far fetched with little precedence.

Maybe I don't have a firm grasp at how Japanese corporations handle their decisions, and the difficulty to change course once voted on and accepted. But then again, Robert just came back from a large meeting in Dallas w/many Pioneer execs and Pioneer's EVP, and when asked about the possibility of Pioneer completing the Kuro line, he was told "never say never"...meaning that MANY in Pioneer's top brass have at least been thinking about it. Again, not a far-fetched idea in the world of Consumer Electronics, and believe me I've seen some crazy stuff go on in CE over the years. Probably, you have too, so to say "impossible" or imply the impossibility of Pioneer reversing itself is very surprising. Sure it's possible, but the odds are definitely tilted against it. It's never as black/white as you portray.

Maybe I don't have a firm grasp at how Japanese corporations handle their decisions, and the difficulty to change course once voted on and accepted. But then again, Robert just came back from a large meeting in Dallas w/many Pioneer execs and Pioneer's EVP, and when asked about the possibility of Pioneer completing the Kuro line, he was told "never say never"...meaning that MANY in Pioneer's top brass have at least been thinking about it. Again, not a far-fetched idea in the world of Consumer Electronics, and believe me I've seen some crazy stuff go on in CE over the years. Probably, you have too, so to say "impossible" or imply the impossibility of Pioneer reversing itself is very surprising. Sure it's possible, but the odds are definitely tilted against it. It's never as black/white as you portray.

Give me some examples of CE companies that have formally announced an exit then reversed direction.

More confirmation on plasma production continuing for NA & Europe until the end of 2009. Production for Japan will end in April.

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/03/25/pioneer_plasma/

Pioneer has denied reports that it will wrap up worldwide plasma TV production with a final run of sets next month.

The firm announced last month plans to exit the plasma TV business by March 2010. But a release on its Japanese website today prompted numerous online news sources to wrongly report that the 2500 50in and 500 60in Kuros set to go into production next month will be its last.

The 3000 TVs will be the last plasmas manufactured for sale in the firm’s native market, a Pioneer spokeswoman told Register Hardware. But production for US, European and other markets will continue, she added.

Global plasma production will probably come to an end by the close of 2009, she added.

Ending plasma production globally before January 2010 will ensure Pioneer meets its self-imposed March 2010 deadline. But why the firm’s chosen to close down plasma production for Japan but continue making plasmas to sell to the rest of the world remains a closely guarded secret.