Does anyone have experience with this product yet? It recently began shipping and I was wondering how you liked it. Any audio problems?

Or any HDCP problems?

TIA.

Does anyone have experience with this product yet? It recently began shipping and I was wondering how you liked it. Any audio problems?
There's no audio through mini DP on Macs.

If you're working with a Mac Mini, I don't think the Mini DP to HDMI adapter (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10428&cs_id=1042802&p_id=5311&seq=1&format=2) is available yet (monoprice lists it as shipping around 3/27), but the larger regular one has been out for a while.

From everything I've read, Apple has been silent on the matter, so I'm not sure anyone can definitively state whether or not the mini DP port on a Mac Mini supports audio at this time.

If you're working with a Mac Mini, I don't think the Mini DP to HDMI adapter (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10428&cs_id=1042802&p_id=5311&seq=1&format=2) is available yet (monoprice lists it as shipping around 3/27), but the larger regular one has been out for a while.

From everything I've read, Apple has been silent on the matter, so I'm not sure anyone can definitively state whether or not the mini DP port on a Mac Mini supports audio at this time.

Cant wait to hear some feed back on this...

I've been trying to determine which would be best to go with...

as for the audio... any suggestions on that? I'm not to concerned with 5.1 or 7.1 sound at the current time since most of my movie watching comes from my blue-ray player...

There's no audio through mini DP on Macs.

Rats! :(

If you're working with a Mac Mini, I don't think the Mini DP to HDMI adapter (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10428&cs_id=1042802&p_id=5311&seq=1&format=2) is available yet (monoprice lists it as shipping around 3/27), but the larger regular one has been out for a while.

From everything I've read, Apple has been silent on the matter, so I'm not sure anyone can definitively state whether or not the mini DP port on a Mac Mini supports audio at this time.

Using the current Macbook, not the mini.

I had hoped for a one cable solution, but I guess Steve knows what's best for us. :rolleyes:

Talk about a love - hate relationship...

http://i.gizmodo.com/5180900/the-flood-of-mini-displayport+to+hdmi-adapters-for-macs-begins-with-apogee

Apogee is going to be releasing their own Mini to HDMI adapter shortly

anyone get theirs? review from gizmodo
http://i.gizmodo.com/5187481/monoprice-mini-displayport+to+hdmi-adapter-hands+on-hd-itunes-now-plays-on-tvs

anyone get theirs? review from gizmodo
http://i.gizmodo.com/5187481/monoprice-mini-displayport+to+hdmi-adapter-hands+on-hd-itunes-now-plays-on-tvs
It was supposed to be available yesterday, but Monoprice site now says 3-30.

Thanks to the link that Jessegun23 posted, there is now a lot more information about this.

Let's begin by looking at who needs it and for what.

If you have a Mac Mini you do not need this because you already have a DVI output. The only people who need this are those with new Macbooks and new iMacs. Both of these machines have only a Displayport.

From a very interesting and informative article (http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/2008/09/16/44552/displayport-versus-hdmi-do-we-really-need-two-digital-display-interface-standards.htm) linked from that site, the only people who would need this new adapter are those connecting a new Macbook or iMac to a display with only a hdmi connection.

But the main point is really: since we are here to discuss home theater, who would want audio to come out of their video display? Both the machines with only Displayport still have optical audio lines out (and in). So, one optical cable to the audio device and the Displayport/hdmi to the display.

Most of us, even with DVI ports are doing this already - one cable to the video display and one to the audio amplifier.

What's the problem?

The problem is for folks who'd prefer to run their HDMI through an AVR and then out to a display--if Apple allowed the miniDP to carry audio, then theoretically you'd have one cable carrying both high res audio and video. Optical works fine for the standard DD 5.1 and DTS of an standard DVD, but not for the newer higher res audio formats that you might find on Blu-ray/HD-DVD rips.

If you're still using an AVR with optical and coax audio in but without HDMI inputs, then this isn't an issue for you.

The problem is for folks who'd prefer to run their HDMI through an AVR and then out to a display--if Apple allowed the miniDP to carry audio, then theoretically you'd have one cable carrying both high res audio and video. Optical works fine for the standard DD 5.1 and DTS of an standard DVD, but not for the newer higher res audio formats that you might find on Blu-ray/HD-DVD rips.


Well, as I recall, you usually advise people to connect their computer directly to the display with one cable and to the AVR with another since resolution problems seem to occur when they run both through the AVR.

Since Mac's cannot currently play back HD or Blu-ray, I assume those who want to play them just buy external players.

I'm already using the mini-DVI port of my new Mini, which is going to a display, mounted in my rack. Right now, it's just used to control iTunes. Eventually, I'd like to get the miniDP to HDMI and run that through my pre-/pro- and configure it as a second monitor. When this happens, users will be able to select a movie from the display in the rack and have it play in Apple's DVD Player app, which will be on the second monitor (ie, the pre-/pro-, connected to the display). So, I have a Mini, and I have a need for both cables.

Well, as I recall, you usually advise people to connect their computer directly to the display with one cable and to the AVR with another since resolution problems seem to occur when they run both through the AVR.

Oh, most definitely so, that's because you and I have been reading the same repetitive posts--dude tries to go HDMI into his AVR before even trying to connect to his display directly, then wonders why it doesn't work. So I think a good general rule of thumb is don't try to go through an AVR initially, make a direct connection and see what you're up against.

But, we've been here for what, 5 years already, and in that time the AVR manufacturers have pushed things forward--AVRs with multiple HDMI inputs that switch and upscale are common these days, and affordable. I'm still holding onto my two non-HDMI HK AVRs, but they have multi-channel analog audio inputs so I've been fine with SACD and Blu-ray.

Since Mac's cannot currently play back HD or Blu-ray, I assume those who want to play them just buy external players

You can't rip a commercial HD-DVD or Blu-ray disc in OS X, but many Macs can (and do) rip in virtual environments and certainly can play back rips and downloads of such content. And, often, the high res multichannel audio of such content can't be squeezed down through optical.

Regardless of intended use, though, it remains a problem if the agreed-upon DisplayPort standard supports audio, and Apple refuses to allow the mini-DisplayPort to. Hopefully we'll see some movement on this...

Regardless of intended use, though, it remains a problem if the agreed-upon DisplayPort standard supports audio, and Apple refuses to allow the mini-DisplayPort to. Hopefully we'll see some movement on this...

Since the standard permits audio, I'm pretty hopeful that Apple will eventually update it. Of course, when that happens is another question.

If you have a Mac Mini you do not need this because you already have a DVI output. The only people who need this are those with new Macbooks and new iMacs. Both of these machines have only a Displayport.

Is there any video difference between the mini-DVI and mini-displayport connections?

I know the MD can support higher resolution than DVI, does that mean it can also drive faster framerates video MD->HDMI connection?

The Monoprice adapter is now available to order.

Confirmed on gizmodo review to NOT carry audio, as has been attested numerous times before by folks that have examined the pin outs on the mini DP.

No thanks Apple... I should have purchased a notebook with HDMI out.

Big deal, buy a $5 optical audio cable.

Can't... not connected to receiver but to HDMI on HDTV with no audio input on the desired input.

It's sort of ridiculous really, that Apple would be so progressive with an obscure derivative of a an already obscure specification, yet not include that which the specification was designed for: audio and video... dually ironic that Apple is so big on aesthetics and design yet would subscribe to a rat's nest of cords in lieu of it's simpler cord design PC brethren (i.e. HDMI out).

Sooner or later, they'll probably come around to demand and allow this functionality in future revisions, but in the current models, it's a hardware limitation so those folks (inc. me) will be left out in the cold on this one...

Might be software issue.

Anyways, thanks for the heads up. I placed an order last night and it already shipped. Can test on MBP when it arrives while I plan my new Mini order.

Might be software issue.

Anyways, thanks for the heads up. I placed an order last night and it already shipped. Can test on MBP when it arrives while I plan my new Mini order.
Quote from Apple forum:

"According to the pin out provided on the Wikepedia Article, Pins 16 and 18 are for Aux_CH positive and negative, respectively. Those are the two pins needed to deliver the SPDIF digital audio connection, and are the same pins used to deliver digital audio over the Mini DisplayPort connector to the LCD Cinema Display. Hooked my own connector up to a digital oscilloscope and confirmed the same."

Please do report back your findings though Joseph. I'd love for this to be wrong, as I'm kinda between a rock and hard place with Macbook connection options.

I don't think it will work now, I think it might just be a software issue with OS X that may be corrected with Snow Leopard or earlier.

But the main point is really: since we are here to discuss home theater, who would want audio to come out of their video display? Both the machines with only Displayport still have optical audio lines out (and in). So, one optical cable to the audio device and the Displayport/hdmi to the display.

Most of us, even with DVI ports are doing this already - one cable to the video display and one to the audio amplifier.

What's the problem?
Simplicity of design (i.e. just say no to multiple cords/adapters rat's nest), much higher sample rate/bit depth audio, HDMI v1.3 receivers... to name but a few reasons



Since Mac's cannot currently play back HD or Blu-ray, I assume those who want to play them just buy external players.

Hmm... I don't know how I could have taken this out of context as it is what it is, but to quote the statement ENTIRELY as was quoted by someone else a short while ago:

That is incorrect. There are a plethora of HD playback options that don't necessarily involve the medium of bluray whatsoever; see HD trailers, episodic content et. al. -- Mac Store. See x264 rips. See Boxee/Plex. Plus, while not internal to the Mac there is a BD USB Optical drives for the Mac.

I don't think it will work now, I think it might just be a software issue with OS X that may be corrected with Snow Leopard or earlier.
Hopefully it's not a hardware limitation of the current gen miniDP that will be sorted in succeeding Macbooks. I'm all in for the Snow Leopard upgrade if this is turns out to be true, but I'm not holding my breath. It would be nice if Apple would finally come out of the closet on this and provide some clarity.

It's very difficult to fathom that Apple didn't anticipate very high demand for this adapter... and have one ready last year. A true shame that they couldn't have just gone with HDMI in the 1st place, despite royalties. I'd pay extra for a Macbook with HDMI out.

People really need to read and understand how audio over HDMI works instead of making wild guesses. There are no extra pins needed. The audio (digital) single is interleaved with the video (digital) single. That's why an standard DVI -> HDMI cabled works with an nvidia video card that has an spdif input connector under Linux.

So the real question is will Apple enable audio over the digital interface in the same manner as with the AppleTV?

If not, then boot linux and surprise, working audio over hdmi is possible.

People really need to read and understand how audio over HDMI works instead of making wild guesses. There are no extra pins needed. The audio (digital) single is interleaved with the video (digital) single. That's why an standard DVI -> HDMI cabled works with an nvidia video card that has an spdif input connector under Linux.

So the real question is will Apple enable audio over the digital interface in the same manner as with the AppleTV?

If not, then boot linux and surprise, working audio over hdmi is possible.
Perhaps it would help if you look at Apple's own connector diagram as you're comparing apples to oranges. See Pin Assignment 16 & 18 on page 2:

http://developer.apple.com/softwarelicensing/agreements/pdf/MiniDisplayPortConnectorDimensions111908.pdf

OR

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini_DisplayPort

I'd love to know what I said that was false, or that which was a 'guess'. Are you suggesting that connector devices (of all sorts) don't have pin assignments? I said notta about 'extra pins'. What I suggested was that Pins 16 and 18 (used for SPDIF audio) are not being utilized on the MiniDP connector, hence: no audio. These are the same pins used to deliver digital audio over the Mini DisplayPort connector to the LCD Cinema Display. Verified wtih a digital oscilloscope...

It's anybody's 'guess' as to whether this can be fixed in software or perhaps an official miniDP to HDMI adapter by Apple (why so long?!!), I sure hope so and I'll keep my fingers crossed! I don't relish doing an upcoming FCP project on the MB screen, and I don't have a audio input on my LCD to spare.

The AppeTV already has an HDMI out which is a different ball of wax (i.e. required standards) as it's not a reinvention of a relatively scarce interface standard pioneered by Apple (i.e. MiniDP) which by spec should support audio, but surprise-surprise, does not (with the aforementioned adapter). So, it would be an even bigger surprise to me if HDMI on the Apple TV didn't carry audio. Are you saying it didn't originally?

Also, which HDMI to DVI adapter are you referring to? You do recognize that the DVI standard does not carry audio correct? If you're running SPDIF audio, either directly or through DVI + SPDIF to HDMI converter box, you're not sending it through DVI, so I'm not really seeing your correlation, at all.

Don't need to look at connector pin diagrams, they are irrelevant. The AppleTV does carry multi-channel audio over HDMI, it works just fine and other apps such as XBMC for Mac have no problem using this as the AppleTV quicktime and nvidia drivers know how to do the digital audio/video interleave. Pins 16 and 18 (used for SPDIF audio) are legacy as SPDIF cannot handle multi-channel audio beyond ac3/dts.

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI -> TMDS for details, this is how digital audio over HDMI works. Since DVI also uses TMDS, there's no difference with respect to TMDS between the DVI and HDMI except the physical connector. Why do you think DVI->HDMI adapters work in the first place? The both use the same TMDS interface and protocol.

here's a nVidia lit quote

The NVIDIA® GeForce® 8 Series graphics card supports HDMI with audio integration solution. With a DVI-to-HDMI adapter and an extra signal cord through the bracket, audio source from sound card(S/PDIF) can be integrated into HDMI interface by simply plugging the cord into the pinhead located on graphics card. Only 1 single HDMI cable is required while streaming audio/video data to flat-panel display devices, such as Plasma/LCD TVs, or projector."

Pump sdpif into the nvidia card, it interleaves the audio/video digital signals, a standard DVI to HDMI connector handles the physical interface.

and some more links regarding DVD->HDMI with audio using nvidia cards under linux. This works as one can run linux on the appletv and get audio over HDMI, piece of cake. This should also work with the new nvidia based Macs and a DVI->HDMI connector. Sad to say, until Apple enables this, you will need to move to Linux if you want audio over HDMI as the AppleTV is the ONLY current apple platform that can do this under OSX.

http://forums.nvidia.com/lofiversion/index.php?t46914.html
http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=185519&page=3

Here's another nice link about DVI -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface

notice the words "It is partially compatible with the High-Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI) standard in digital mode (DVI-D), and VGA in analog mode (DVI-A)"

DVI uses TMDS signaling. HDMI also uses TMDS signaling. HDMI is capable of higher bandwidths than DVI due to the connector and cable design. Other than that, any differences are enforced by software (HDCP) design and not hardware design. Stop thinking SPDIF, it's legacy and HDMI while it can support a legacy SPDIF interface, that's not how audio over HDMI works. If it did, you could just make an DVI/SPDIF to HDMI adapter for $20 in parts and end of story. No one make/sells a DVI/SPDIF to HDMI adapter in that price randge, I wonder why :)

Don't need to look at connector pin diagrams, they are irrelevant. The AppleTV does carry multi-channel audio over HDMI, it works just fine and other apps such as XBMC for Mac have no problem using this as the AppleTV quicktime and nvidia drivers know how to do the digital audio/video interleave. Pins 16 and 18 (used for SPDIF audio) are legacy as SPDIF cannot handle multi-channel audio beyond ac3/dts.

Did I suggest otherwise? Why are we even talking about an HDMI equipped AppleTV rather than a miniDP equipped Macbook? There seems to be a much greater shroud of uncertainty surrounding the Mini Display Port on the Macbook per se, and not necessarily its specification.


see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI -> TMDS for details, this is how digital audio over HDMI works. Since DVI also uses TMDS, there's no difference with respect to TMDS between the DVI and HDMI except the physical connector. Why do you think DVI->HDMI adapters work in the first place? The both use the same TMDS interface and protocol.

Again, not seeing anything contrary to this in my post. I'm vaguely familiar with layer 1 video signaling standards, and I'm aware that 5.1/DTS is legacy, but is it reasonable to assume if the interface isn't using that, than it's not providing multi channel surround (TrueHD, etc.) either? Those legacy pins ARE utilized on the Cinema display. BTW, does miniDP use TMDS?


Pump sdpif into the nvidia card, it interleaves the audio/video digital signals, a standard DVI to HDMI connector handles the physical interface.

Interesting, but it requires a patch cable i.e. signal cord through the bracket right, which I'm guessing the Macbook does not do internally. If not, I don't think this is a viable solution for the Macbook. Audio should just be natively supported through the miniDP port (external) and propagate through the HDMI side should it not, internal connections notwithstanding.


Sad to say, until Apple enables this, you will need to move to Linux if you want audio over HDMI as the AppleTV is the ONLY current apple platform that can do this under OSX.
I never suggested otherwise did I? If so, it was not my intention. The AppleTV has an HDMI out and I would naturally presume that it carries audio out, nevermind the fact that Apple says it does on their tech specs page.

No way Jose on the move to *nix on the Macbook! I need Final Cut Pro, and besides, putting *nix on a Macbook just doesn't sound right to me. I'd rather put it on a much lower cost PC if anything...


notice the words "It is partially compatible with the High-Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI) standard in digital mode (DVI-D), and VGA in analog mode (DVI-A)"
Yes, I also notice where it says HDMI adds the ability (i.e. beyond DVI) to send audio/auxiliary data using 4b/10b encoding for the Data Island Period. Though for what it's worth, I do find it interesting that audio can be encoded onto the DVI TMDS signal with Software tomfoolery. :)

But in the end, I think running another cord is a bit of a hackneyed approach as to simply running one cord end to end: HDMI (or miniDP to HDMI as it were), and don't see from your explanation how that approach is viable from a MB standpoint.

DVI uses TMDS signaling. HDMI also uses TMDS signaling. HDMI is capable of higher bandwidths than DVI due to the connector and cable design. Other than that, any differences are enforced by software (HDCP) design and not hardware design.
I've heard Apple products are not HDCP compliant, is that so? Even with this miniDP to HDMI dongle that monoprice is selling one cannot watch HDCP protected content on their Macs....


Stop thinking SPDIF, it's legacy and HDMI while it can support a legacy SPDIF interface, that's not how audio over HDMI works. If it did, you could just make an DVI/SPDIF to HDMI adapter for $20 in parts and end of story. No one make/sells a DVI/SPDIF to HDMI adapter in that price randge, I wonder why :) Close to that price range actually (~$50), but reviews suggest they suck and have problems.

But SPDIF (AC3 or DTS) or other higher bitrate 'interleaved' Multichannel Audio... I don't care which becomes supported as I'm only sending audio to a stereo LCD.

We seem to have veered OT in this crash course of DVI vs. HDMI signaling standards. So simply put, is it safe to say that you [strongly] believe that the current MiniDP to HDMI dongle's problem, with regard to not transmitting audio, is entirely software based (read: not hardware based), and if Apple releases a [software] update, it will remedy this problem?

The nvidia spdif input is a connector on the actual card, typically near the top edge, two pins. That's to get SPDIF into the nvidia chipset where it interleaves it with the video and then out the DVI connector. A standard DVI to HDMI connector finished the job. All in all, it's a pretty simple solution for nvidia while they re-engineered for HDMI.

The legacy pins might be utilized on the Cinema display but that's a display specific option. I would bet that most if not all other HDMI display don't have it. Sounds like the inclusion for the Cinema display is more an exception than the rule.

It's a software issue, not a hardware issue. Right now, Apple chooses not to enable an audio over HDMI solution for OSX platforms other than the AppleTV. Not a clue why except maybe related to HDCP issues. Apple does know what and how to do it. That's proven with the AppleTV. Time will tell.

Oh, they know exactly what they are doing with the MiniDP connector. It's smaller, support higher bandwidth with more functionality than HDMI.

Plus the physical connector is more robust.

The only reason for the spdif/nvidia hack is a driver issue. Doing it this way, nvidia did not have get all the software bits working together. Think about it, audio driver would need to send it's stream to the video driver which then merges them together. This way, only the chipset is involved, the audio driver has no clue what's going on.

Keep in mind, this is all different now that some nvidia cards have read HDMI connectors. Now the Linux drivers know how to do the interleave for HDMI.

DisplayPort and it's mini version is compatible with HDMI using an adapter. Remember a few weeks ago, Apple issued an firmware update to one of it's shipping MiniDP adapters. That's an interesting clue that these adapters are not just cable/pin adapters. The firmware on the adapter itself was updated. That means the adapter is smart.

Beginning with DVI -> HMDI -> DisplayPort, the concept of individual pins doing a dedicated function is dead. It's all multiplexed and packetized and passed over one or more high speed data links. That means software games abound.

For an OSX solution to audio over DisplayPort/MiniDP/HDMI etc. Apple is in control of this as it will need cooperation between audio and video drivers.

So, is the current state that people have tested Mini-DP to HDMI and confirmed no audio, but it should be possible without hardware changes?

In the interim, how about the Mini's Mini-DVI port? Aren't there already Mini-DVI to HDMI cables available? At least this is an immediate solution..

Oh, they know exactly what they are doing with the MiniDP connector. It's smaller, support higher bandwidth with more functionality than HDMI.

I meant insofar as not having a functional miniDP to HDMI adapter from the get go. Let's face it, barely anyone has a display with a displayport, let alone mini. But from a capitalistic standpoint, sure they know what they are doing. They know people will buy there components no matter what and then be forced into paying more for pricey, limited adapters.

Size difference is negligible; It DOES NOT have higher bandwidth (HDMI 10.2Gb/sec vs DP 8.74Gb/sec) not that that really makes any practical difference as it's like comparing an elephant to a bigger elephant. I don't need any resolution higher than 1920x1080 even though HDMI goes higher. I would posit 99% of people would fall in that category. What additional functionality exactly? One reason Apple went with DP is simple... no royalties. But it's a sorry choice for video/audio interface plain and simple, if only because of it's scarcity.. maybe that'll be different in a couple of years, but by then, there will be a newer models so who cares!

Let's look at the facts shall we?

HDMI 1.3 support 2560 x 1600 and higher future frequencies will probably support DP's 4096 x 2160 but again... from 'a consumerist perspective', who gives a hoot? That's far higher than most people will use for some time....

DisplayPort also seems to be deficient in Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio bitstream support.


Plus the physical connector is more robust.

How so? They both seem durable enough to me. It seems like you're really grasping at straws for this one...


The only reason for the spdif/nvidia hack is a driver issue. Doing it this way, nvidia did not have get all the software bits working together. Think about it, audio driver would need to send it's stream to the video driver which then merges them together. This way, only the chipset is involved, the audio driver has no clue what's going on.

Keep in mind, this is all different now that some nvidia cards have read HDMI connectors. Now the Linux drivers know how to do the interleave for HDMI.

I appreciate the education on the hackneyed nividia implementation of SPDIF. Admittedly, I'd never heard of carrying audio on a DVI interface and its cool. But for all practical purposes, this will never happen on the Macbook so it's kinda moot as it's not a fix for the current problem.


DisplayPort and it's mini version is compatible with HDMI using an adapter. Remember a few weeks ago, Apple issued an firmware update to one of it's shipping MiniDP adapters. That's an interesting clue that these adapters are not just cable/pin adapters. The firmware on the adapter itself was updated. That means the adapter is smart.
"smart adapter" -- I don't believe that or any smart logic in that adapter to be the case... seems to be more like a Nivida 9400m patch to reduce flickering on VGA to me, not that I saw any difference in my environment but that's another story... wake me last year when Apple should have already had an output interface that carries audio and video flicker free over a digital interface like all the competition. I'm tired of these faults of Apple turned into accomplishments. It seems to me there's this blind effervescence that Apple is always ahead of the curve, but this simply isn't the case. This functionality of audio and video on one cable isn't anything new. HDMI is the defacto standard... everyone and there brother has a HDTV, and they all want to hook up their Macs too it w/o being bothers with a yet another competing standard. All Apple has done thus far is alienate newcomer HTPC enthusiasts with this new standard. But then that's not there target demographic as they enjoy compartmentalizing their products with a Santoku blade...:) Sucks for us all in one types for sure tho...
I wouldn't have a greivance if they simply had a HDMI to MiniDP adapter that fully worked. Sad really... as this unibody Mac is my introduction in the Apple world.

Beginning with DVI -> HMDI -> DisplayPort, the concept of individual pins doing a dedicated function is dead.

HDMI:
Pin 1 TMDS Data2+
Pin 2 TMDS Data2 Shield
Pin 3 TMDS Data2–
Pin 4 TMDS Data1+
Pin 5 TMDS Data1 Shield
Pin 6 TMDS Data1–
Pin 7 TMDS Data0+
Pin 8 TMDS Data0 Shield
Pin 9 TMDS Data0–
Pin 10 TMDS Clock+
Pin 11 TMDS Clock Shield
Pin 12 TMDS Clock–
Pin 13 CEC
Pin 14 Reserved (N.C. on device)
Pin 15 SCL
Pin 16 SDA
Pin 17 DDC/CEC Ground
Pin 18 +5 V Power (max 50 mA)
Pin 19 Hot Plug Detect

DisplayPort:
Pin 1 ML_Lane 0 (p) Lane 0 (positive)
Pin 2 GND Ground
Pin 3 ML_Lane 0 (n) Lane 0 (negative)
Pin 4 ML_Lane 1 (p) Lane 1 (positive)
Pin 5 GND Ground
Pin 6 ML_Lane 1 (n) Lane 1 (negative)
Pin 7 ML_Lane 2 (p) Lane 2 (positive)
Pin 8 GND Ground
Pin 9 ML_Lane 2 (n) Lane 2 (negative)
Pin 10 ML_Lane 3 (p) Lane 3 (positive)
Pin 11 GND Ground
Pin 12 ML_Lane 3 (n) Lane 3 (negative)
Pin 13 CONFIG1 connected to Ground1)
Pin 14 CONFIG2 connected to Ground1)
Pin 15 AUX CH (p) Auxiliary Channel (positive)
Pin 16 GND Ground
Pin 17 AUX CH (n) Auxiliary Channel (negative)
Pin 18 Hot Plug Hot Plug Detect
Pin 19 Return Return for Power
Pin 20 DP_PWR Power for connector


If you say so... ;)


It's all multiplexed and packetized and passed over one or more high speed data links
This doesn't 'cancel out' your previous statement. It's not an either/or condition.

That means software games abound

What are we talking about again -- HSDPA and Java games? :D

Final comments for me here ;)

Read the update instructions regarding the MiniDP adapter update. Requires the adapter to be plugged in. Ask why? If the update is updating firmware on controller that is located on the MacBook/Pro, who cares if the adapter is inserted or not? Believe me, the adapter is smart.

Apple looks 3-5 years ahead. They are proactive not reactive in their development cycles.

HDMI was created to enable HDCP, DVI physical spec would have worked just fine but the content owners wanted a completely different connector. It's all politics.

Talk to all the DishNetwork owners of DRV-6xx series about HDMI connector failures. The plug/cable is too heavy for surface mount HDMI sockets and will eventually pull the connector off the pcb unless you use a HDMI socket with extra through-hole mounting points. Through-hole mounting holes in PCBs are expensive compared to non through-hole, not to mention the physical socket takes more PCB space. Sure this is just a few cents more per unit but multiply that by millions.

Same thing for HDMI royalties. Next to nothing quantity one, multiply that by millions and it's a different story.

MiniDP takes more than 50 percent less room than HDMI. Connector footprint on a notebook is a premium. Factor in smaller "future" devices. Light bulb go on yet. Yes, there a mini-HDMI form factor but then there's those HDMI royalties again. 1 dollar in cost per unit translates to 10+ dollars per unit in retail price. Basic manufacturing 101.


Bottom line is Apple chosen DisplayPort instead of HDMI because it fits the requirements of their present and future plans. We don't get to know those plans so all we can do is wait it out and see what happens.

Finally if you don't like what Apple has provided in hardware then build a Hackentosh that uses a video card with a HDMI connector and find someone with the skillset to mod the audio/video kext drivers to support audio over HDMI. There's a very active community that is doing this very thing.

I originally came in to correct the notion that HDMI uses the physical SPDIF pins for digital audio transmission. It could but does not.

This has now branched into a philosophical discussion about the merits of HDMI vs DisplayPort with respect to Apple hardware which brings it off topic.

Bottom line, there are DisplayPort to HDMI adapters. Currently audio over HDMI is not supported. It's a software issue not a hardware issue so this requires Apple to "enable" audio over HDMI when using the DisplayPort adapters. Go to the Apple web site and file a enhancement request. If a few million users do this, it might just happen if it's not already in the future plans of Apple.

Final comments for me here ;)

Read the update instructions regarding the MiniDP adapter update. Requires the adapter to be plugged in. Ask why? If the update is updating firmware on controller that is located on the MacBook/Pro, who cares if the adapter is inserted or not? Believe me, the adapter is smart.

I did.

Perhaps the rationale is because those who don't have need not update to it (i.e. the Apple simple is better philosophy). Or maybe, the adapter has a very small cache of nvram or flash for bios/sync handshake information etc.

Either way, it doesn't make it necessarily 'smart'.



Apple looks 3-5 years ahead. They are proactive not reactive in their development cycles.
That could not be further from the truth... Apple is ALL about reactive with the iPhone since it's inception until now. Practically every upgrade/improvement has been a direct result of feedback. Same could probably be said about other product lines but I don't care enough to research.

Also Tell me then,
Apple doesn't forsee bluray as a viable optical drive in 3-5 years. They still call antiquated double layer burners 'superdrives' for crying out loud.
Apple didn't think an adapter for HDMI would be in the highest demand at launch (relative to other adapters)

People need miniDP now, like they needed HDMI 10 years ago. In 3 years, this may very well be the same case, at least until regular B&M HDTVs come with displayport... NO... 'mini displayport' standard. Only a minority of customers will be using Apple branded cinema displays or otherwise. It's just not practical, for a notebook that sells itself as 'practical'.


HDMI was created to enable HDCP, DVI physical spec would have worked just fine but the content owners wanted a completely different connector. It's all politics.

True, and moot. Dually ironic because AFAIK, Apple products are not even HDCP compliant, hence the frustration of so many that can play HDCP ICT content with either this adapter connected, or the DVI adapter.


Talk to all the DishNetwork owners of DRV-6xx series about HDMI connector failures. The plug/cable is too heavy for surface mount HDMI sockets and will eventually pull the connector off the pcb unless you use a HDMI socket with extra through-hole mounting points. Through-hole mounting holes in PCBs are expensive compared to non through-hole, not to mention the physical socket takes more PCB space. Sure this is just a few cents more per unit but multiply that by millions.
A litany of issues not all necessarily pointing to the durability of HDMI per se, or the lack thereof. A can of worms discussion I'd rather not deviate to.


Same thing for HDMI royalties. Next to nothing quantity one, multiply that by millions and it's a different story.
I would posit that many (inc. me) would pay the surcharge, despite the 'Apple surcharge' of $200-400 more for the same. What's another $10-20-50... do you really think Apple would eat the cost?



MiniDP takes more than 50 percent less room than HDMI. Connector footprint on a notebook is a premium.
Put a HDMI port on the Macbook and it would virtually no difference in form factor. There are smaller notebooks than the Macbook with HDMI out.


Bottom line is Apple chosen DisplayPort instead of HDMI because it fits the requirements of their present and future plans. We don't get to know those plans so all we can do is wait it out and see what happens.
Yes, that much I can agree on. Apple chose miniDP for Apple and they love keeping people in the dark... Indeed.:)


Finally if you don't like what Apple has provided in hardware then build a Hackentosh that uses a video card with a HDMI connector and find someone with the skillset to mod the audio/video kext drivers to support audio over HDMI. There's a very active community that is doing this very thing.
That's besides the point. Apple product enthusiasts such as yourself really shouldn't take constructive criticism to heart so... this is a valid grievance that hundreds, if not thousands emanate. I see it every day that I log into Apple forums.

I originally came in to correct the notion that HDMI uses the physical SPDIF pins for digital audio transmission. It could but does not.
You mean it does and can, mostly for legacy reasons, but not necessarily. I don't see where I said anything contrary to your point but point taken, again.

This has now branched into a philosophical discussion about the merits of HDMI vs DisplayPort with respect to Apple hardware which brings it off topic.
Actually, You've been discussing a wide range of OT items from the onset. About Nivida cards, about signaling nomenclature, about AppleTV, something to do with games transport mechanisms related to HDMI/DP. etc. Even in this very post I'm quoting, you veer off talking about HDMI connectors on DVRs... Far be it from me to take total responsibility.


Bottom line, there are DisplayPort to HDMI adapters. Currently audio over HDMI is not supported. It's a software issue not a hardware issue so this requires Apple to "enable" audio over HDMI when using the DisplayPort adapters.
I'll PM you if it is later learned that this capability requires a hardware revision during the next Macbook update. You seem really confident that it's not, perhaps even corrected in Snow Leopard no? So we shall see...


Go to the Apple web site and file a enhancement request. If a few million users do this, it might just happen if it's not already in the future plans of Apple.
Nah... it's probably not that important. If it were, Apple would have 'foretold' demand for this 'esoteric' feature 3-5 years ago.:D

Stick a fork in me 'cuz I'm done too...
Cheers.

I need some help right here. I read through this thread and I think I got myself more confused. I just ordered a mac mini and i'm planning to buy some cables through monoprice. I'm connecting my Mac mini to a 40 Samsung LCD and as for sound I'm getting a mini plug to optical to connect to my receiver. My dilemma is with the picture. What would be better to buy? A) Mini DVI to HDMI or B) Mini DisplayPort to HDMI? Would the picture look the same or would one have a better resolution over another. Thanks.

P.S. In plain english please, as i'm not that savvy with all this mumbo jumbo.

I need some help right here. I read through this thread and I think I got myself more confused. I just ordered a mac mini and i'm planning to buy some cables through monoprice. I'm connecting my Mac mini to a 40 Samsung LCD and as for sound I'm getting a mini plug to optical to connect to my receiver. My dilemma is with the picture. What would be better to buy? A) Mini DVI to HDMI or B) Mini DisplayPort to HDMI? Would the picture look the same or would one have a better resolution over another. Thanks.

P.S. In plain english please, as i'm not that savvy with all this mumbo jumbo.

I have a Mini ----> Anchor Bay VP50 (video processor which acts as the video upscale and switch for all my sources) -----> Pio 6020FD (TV) routing for video

I use the DP-HMDI adapter and HDMI-HDMI cable connecting the mini to the VP50 and HDMI - HDMI for the comnnection between the VP50 and the 6020FD.

I also tried the mini DVI - standard DVI adapter that came with the Mini with a DVI-HDMI cable between the Mini and the VP50 since I had one lying around.

I have had no hand shake issues (related to the cabling) with either method so I actually do not see the advantage of one over the other, except that I think the DP-HDMI is a little neater (smaller) behind the unit.

The only problem I have noticed is that if I do not make the Mac go to sleep before I switch off the rest of my equipment, then when I switch it back on the VP50 sometimes has a problem recognizing the Mini. If I always put it to asleep first - no problems.

I do wish the Mini had two seperate audio outputs, one digital and one analog, this is because my Anthem D1 pre/pro will only pass on analog signals to other zones and so since I use the digital output to my main room I cannot pass anything on to the pool, office, dining room, etc.

I have a Mini ----> Anchor Bay VP50 (video processor which acts as the video upscale and switch for all my sources) -----> Pio 6020FD (TV) routing for video

I use the DP-HMDI adapter and HDMI-HDMI cable connecting the mini to the VP50 and HDMI - HDMI for the comnnection between the VP50 and the 6020FD.

I also tried the mini DVI - standard DVI adapter that came with the Mini with a DVI-HDMI cable between the Mini and the VP50 since I had one lying around.

I have had no hand shake issues (related to the cabling) with either method so I actually do not see the advantage of one over the other, except that I think the DP-HDMI is a little neater (smaller) behind the unit.

The only problem I have noticed is that if I do not make the Mac go to sleep before I switch off the rest of my equipment, then when I switch it back on the VP50 sometimes has a problem recognizing the Mini. If I always put it to asleep first - no problems.

I do wish the Mini had two seperate audio outputs, one digital and one analog, this is because my Anthem D1 pre/pro will only pass on analog signals to other zones and so since I use the digital output to my main room I cannot pass anything on to the pool, office, dining room, etc.

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it. :)

Has anyone found a Mini Displayport to HDMI cable (as opposed to an adapter)? I would like to go directly from my Mini to my HDMI switch.. why bother with an adapter.

I've only seen adapters available online.

I just recently tried switching my Mac Mini from the:
OLD: (mini-dvi to dvi adapter) connected to (dvi to hdmi adapter) connected to hdmi cable
NEW: mini-dp to hdmi adapter connected to hdmi cable

Now however, with the mini-dp as the only video connection, I'm having problems booting the box; it keeps hanging on me. It seems to hang mostly going into bootcamp Vista 32bit. If I hard reboot, sometimes it will boot into OS (at which point everything is great) or it hangs again.

If I use the mini-dvi mess, it boots fine, even if I leave the mini-dp adapter plugged into the mini, it still boots fine...

Anyone else seeing anything like this? I've got a 2nd mini with another mini-dp adapter that I switched out and everything was the same, so it's not a single defective adapter. I'm not sure if it's a driver issue (though I've tried multiple driver versions from nvidia), an inherant design flaw in the adapter, or a bad mini-dp port on my mini.

Audio over MiniDP2HDMI working with Leopard v10.5.7? Anyone?

Any word on that 'software enhancement' yet sdavilla (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?u=7637403)? If t were so easy, why can't Apple do it, 9 months later? Will you be singing the same tune when Snow Leopard doesn't fix this problem... the betas certainly have not. What could Apple be waiting for? Maybe they are reinventing audio over miniDP and/or HDMI... some people may actually believe they invented it if they wait long enough, lol

Audio over MiniDP2HDMI working with Leopard v10.5.7? Anyone?
I thought the no audio over Display Port was an Apple hardware limitation -- not something that can fixed in software? Does anyone have other evidence?

I thought the no audio over Display Port was an Apple hardware limitation -- not something that can fixed in software? Does anyone have other evidence? read previous posts. sdavilla assures us it's a software problem.:D

Alright, I know many will consider this something of a deviation from the original thread topic, but I bought Monoprice's DVI and SPDIF to HDMI converter (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011405&p_id=5369&seq=1&format=2), and it should be arriving tomorrow. I'll report back as to how/IF it works with my mac mini and mac pro.

read previous posts. sdavilla assures us it's a software problem.:D
Yes, but he doesn't point us to a source or explain how he knows. Let us hope he is correct. I asked a couple of developer friends to ask their Apple contacts at WWDC what the official scoop on audio capability of Apple's MiniDisplayPort hardware is. I'd say the chances that they will get off the topic of iPhone development and ask this aren't so good, but if they do, I'll report back.

The one thing that militates against it, is Apple's use of USB for audio to the 24" ACD. Considering El Jobso's obsession with minimizing cables, I find requiring a USB cable run for audio strange if it could just be sent via the Display Port cable (see the Apple ADC cable for proof of this obsession).

I don't think the presence of the USB port on the 24" ACD is a factor at all as to the long-term audio capability of display port. There is a camera and USB hub on the 24" ACD that require USB anyway...

I don't think the presence of the USB port on the 24" ACD is a factor at all as to the long-term audio capability of display port. There is a camera and USB hub on the 24" ACD that require USB anyway...
You're right -- I forgot the iSight...

Yes, but he doesn't point us to a source or explain how he knows. Let us hope he is correct. I asked a couple of developer friends to ask their Apple contacts at WWDC what the official scoop on audio capability of Apple's MiniDisplayPort hardware is. I'd say the chances that they will get off the topic of iPhone development and ask this aren't so good, but if they do, I'll report back.

The one thing that militates against it, is Apple's use of USB for audio to the 24" ACD. Considering El Jobso's obsession with minimizing cables, I find requiring a USB cable run for audio strange if it could just be sent via the Display Port cable (see the Apple ADC cable for proof of this obsession).
I hope so too, but admittedly, I was being sarcastic. I totally think it's a hw problem, a glaring omission, shortsighted, and absolute BOHICA (bend over, here it comes again) from Apple. Perhaps purposefully...

From a consumer perspective, HDMI would have been the superior connection choice, last year, this year, and 2 years from now. Typical Apple, lock you into their own hw completely... and cripple it to boot.

Once a finish a project I'm working on, I think I'm gonna sell my Macbook for a Nvidia Ion Dual-core Atom Netbook w/HDMI out (when they become available by year's end)... it's 2009, should be able to use one cord to output audio and video; no dongles, no extra 3.5mm audio cables or miniTOSLINK to opitcal, etc.

I picked up a MiniDisplayPort to HDMI adapter at my local computer store. Among the features listed are:

- Support uncompressed audio such as LPCM
- Support compressed audio such as DTS Digital, Dolby Digital (including DTS-HD and Dolby True HD)

I'm sure it was sourced from a cheap chinese manufacturer, so I don't know about the accuracy of any of the features they claim. But, the rest of the features made sense in describing HDMI versions, video bandwidth, etc.

I haven't tried it on my Mac Mini yet. I got it for my MacBook Pro, to connect it to a (speakerless) external monitor via HDMI. It works fine for that, but gives no indication of anything audio related.

I haven't tried it on my Mac Mini yet. I got it for my MacBook Pro, to connect it to a (speakerless) external monitor via HDMI. It works fine for that, but gives no indication of anything audio related.
And it won't, unfortunately, as the Mac Mini does not output any audio through the Mini Displayport.

And it won't, unfortunately, as the Mac Mini does not output any audio through the Mini Displayport

But since it does output audio through USB, it's just a matter of time until some third party develops a miniDP and USB audio to HDMI adaptor:

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2009/07/prweb2622184.htm

Not as elegant as a true miniDP only solution, but then, historically, Apple has artificially hindered its technology in one device or model line to boost the sales or value proposition of another, so we shouldn't be surprised.

I need some help right here. I read through this thread and I think I got myself more confused. I just ordered a mac mini and i'm planning to buy some cables through monoprice. I'm connecting my Mac mini to a 40 Samsung LCD and as for sound I'm getting a mini plug to optical to connect to my receiver. My dilemma is with the picture. What would be better to buy? A) Mini DVI to HDMI or B) Mini DisplayPort to HDMI? Would the picture look the same or would one have a better resolution over another. Thanks.

P.S. In plain english please, as i'm not that savvy with all this mumbo jumbo.

Finally, after all that technical squabbling, someone gets around to a real pertinent question.

I just upgraded my Mini from the intel mini with DVI to the newest one with Mini-DVI and mini-Display port. Since it comes with a mini-DVI>DVI adapter, I went with that connection, re-using the DVI>HDMI adapter I had from Monoprice.

I am interested if there would be any kind of appreciable difference between Mini-DVI and Mini-Displayport. I'm using a Panasonic 50" Plasma - TH-50PZ80U.

The problem I am having appears to have begun with the upgrade to the new Mini. The TV won't turn on with the HDMI cable from the mini connected to the TV. The Power LED blinks ten times. I have to unpug the mini and hold down the power button for about 10 seconds to reset whatever it is internally that is failing. Then I can re-plug the mini and it works fine.

I am wondering if it is the screen saver that is causing this. I didn't have the screen saver on the old mini, and it was running on the new one. I've since turned it off and have yet to test whether it makes any difference.

I'm also wondering if the Mini-Displayport would work better.

Is anyone else having this problem? There is a thread on the Apple support forum about it (I can't post the URL since this is my first post), but there's no resolution of it.

So this turns out to be an issue with the rear HDMI inputs on the Panasonic tvs. This thread has a lot of details: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1001318

If you have the 10-blink issue with an HTPC connected, Panasonic will send you an HDMI extender gizmo that resolves the problem.

I read through most of this thread but didn't see anything specific about how to get audio into the HDMI port.

I have a mini DP-HDMI coming but my tv doesn't have separate audio inputs on any of the HDMI inputs and I don't yet have an AVR. Is there a mini DP to component adapter that I need to use so I can hook up the sound separately?

I have a mini DP-HDMI coming but my tv doesn't have separate audio inputs on any of the HDMI inputs and I don't yet have an AVR

http://www.macworld.com/article/141987/2009/07/kanex_hdmi.html

Hi,

I bought this Displayport to HDMI from monoprice.com

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10428&cs_id=1042802&p_id=5311&seq=1&format=2

Hooked it up to my unibody Mac and Panasonic plasma TH-50PX75U but I get no image. When I turn the TV off and on the Macbook's screen refreshes (gets black and then comes back). I went to settings -> display -> detect displays and nothing shows up.

Anyone have this problem and find a way to fix it?

Thanks in advance.

see my reply in your other thread

Thoughts and questions -

I get a hunch that Apple intentionally defeats audio via display port. They have been on the fence about HDCP and, more in Apple's strategy - the simply want the ATV to be the "player" of media and have the single output solution (HDMI in this case). This is a positioning scheme.

Direct questions -

Is the defeating of audio via Display Port related to EFI, OS or a combination?

Has anyone tried to install linux on a Mac and get audio through the display port?

I am hoping someone will be able to give a real world response which may help others figure out what path to take.

Admittedly, I have some regrets here about my Mini and for less than half the price the Asrock Ion solution with linux can exploit audio/video out on its built in HDMI port. No matter, I'll find somehow a near elegant solution for the Mini.

- Phrehdd

Soooo has anyone gotten this to work right yet?? I know there is also a 6ft Mini Display to HDMI cable sold on Monoprice. Is there any difference?