I am looking to get a new pair of subwoofers.
So I don't want to get a single sub and I'm not really up to a DIY project.
With that said, I have about $1500 for a pair shipped. Absolute max is $1600
The other stipulation is they can be no wider than 19" in width.
Don't worry about room size- as I like a lot of bass anyway.
Right now I'm looking at a pair of ed A5-350s.
Ive also looked at a pair of MFW-15s but Im not sure I want to play the amp game.
Does anyone know of a pair of subs that would be better than the ed's for less or equal cash that fit the size requirements above?

Thanks all!

UPDATE

So Im back on the hunt for a pair of subs. I knew this day would come...
A couple changes though:

New budget = $1800
New Width requirement = No more than 22 inches wide
New Height requirement = No more than 29 inches high

I still havent decided if I want to go sealed or ported. I guess I want the best of both worlds- loud deep bass that sounds good.

I will eventally get two if I can only afford one right now. But I would want that one to be better than what I have.
I have two A2-300s and a CSW P1000(sealed dual 10"-1000watts). I want to replace all three with the new sub/s.

Here are some contestants. Prices include shipping.

Ported:
Dynasty - 18" 600 watts $1400
Phoenix - 18" 600 watts $1200
A7-350 - 15" 1300 watts $1200
A5-350 - 15" 500 watts $700

Sealed:
A7S-450 - 18" 1300 watts $800
ULS-15 - 15" 1200 watts $1160
Dragon - 15" 600 watts $1100

I am kind of leaning towards the pair of A7S-450s for $1600 shipped. But Im afraid I may be missing out on some of the deep output that a ported enclosure would provide.
I also like the slot port and the idea of an 18" driver in the Dynasty but I could only get one right now.

Is there anything else I should consider. What would you do?
(Not interested in DIY suggestions)

I am looking to get a new pair of subwoofers.
So I don't want to get a single sub and I'm not really up to a DIY project.
With that said, I have about $1500 for a pair shipped. Absolute max is $1600
The other stipulation is they can be no wider than 19" in width.
Don't worry about room size- as I like a lot of bass anyway.
Right now I'm looking at a pair of ed A5-350s.
Ive also looked at a pair of MFW-15s but Im not sure I want to play the amp game.
Does anyone know of a pair of subs that would be better than the ed's for less or equal cash that fit the size requirements above?

Thanks all!

Two of these, and you are under budget... http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-sb12plus.cfm

If I were gonna go SVS I would probably get two of the PB12-NSDs: http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm
Looks like it has a little more output down low. Plus they are cheaper.
While it would be nice to save some money here, I want to get all I can out of my budget.
But thanks, I will put those on my list. I still think the eds would outperform both those SVSs.

Saw the tittle of the thread, and those ed a5-350's you mentioned came to mind immediately.

I think the eD A5 pair would be a good choice. Also a pair of HSU VTF3-MK3 is another good option as is the SVS 12NSD. Skip the SVS SB12plus. No deep bass capability there.

1) Instock.
2) By 2, pay $750 each.
3) Free shipping.

Rearranging the order of those points above will still equate to A GREAT DEAL.

That's what I'm thinking too. I just wanted to bring the question out in case someone else has any ideas.
So right now, the A5-350s seem to be the best choice...

if i were you a HSU MK3 and an MBM...they meet your criteria as far as size goes and IMO its the best set up you can get for the money...then again i have not listened to any of eD's offerings and havent listened to any of the new SVS line...i have listened to the older SVS line of subs and was impressed...but the amount of mid bass slam you will get from the MBM in your setup is absolutely amazing...in my room i get response down to 5hz with my VTF3ho with turbo and the MBM i actually have running a little "cold" AKA i have it running 1db below the level of my speakers...any higher and its just to much

so the total for these 2 just in plain old satin black without shipping cost is $1200...you could add nicer finishes if you felt like it and still come in under budget

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3-mk3.html
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/mbm-12.html

I actually have a Cambridge Soundworks P1000 which is a sealed sub with two 10" drivers.
I have this set at the 50-150Hz range and it does really well and I plan on keeping it along with the new subs.
So I'm specifically looking for two subs with a lot of bottom (<20 Hz).
Any other suggestions?

Which sub would win? (assuming the amp issue will get fixed)

MFW-15 or A5-350?

I have had many subs over the years, right now I am using (2) Sunfire Jr subs, very small footprint and I can shake the china cabinet upstairs. I absolutely love them, my favorite so far. Not sure if they are still making them. They were $1500.00 for both.

VTF3 mk3 x2

which sub would win? (assuming the amp issue will get fixed)

mfw-15 or a5-350?


a5-350 u can buy 2 with your $1500 budget

Which sub would win? (assuming the amp issue will get fixed)

MFW-15 or A5-350?

MFW should win esp on the deep stuff.

I actually redid some calibration and made some adjustments and I think I'm gonna call it good with what I have. I basically turned up all 5 subs (I don't think I mentioned my towers have subs in them too) a little more and I don't think I want any more. I just don't see how any more bass could blend well. Its already a little overpowering to the other channels. The only thing that may be lacking is around 15Hz or below. It's pretty rare to have material that low anyhow, so that's why I have the buttkickers.

Thanks for all the input, but I think I'm gonna use the money elsewhere.

check out the pair of aci titans on ebay, 12in 250 watt sealed under your 1500.00 easily ,these are great subs!!!! google aci inc

Crazy idea but maybe you could get 4 pb-10's.:p But it seems like you made up your mind.

Which sub would win? (assuming the amp issue will get fixed)

MFW-15 or A5-350?

why would you not get the A7S 450 for about the same price as the A5??? i'm lost here, you can get a 1300 watt amp in it and a bigger driver (move more air) for about the same price...am i missing something here?

why would you not get the A7S 450 for about the same price as the A5??? i'm lost here, you can get a 1300 watt amp in it and a bigger driver (move more air) for about the same price...am i missing something here?

Sealed vs Ported. Sealed subs are great but ported will be more efficient. So the larger amp and driver are potentially nullified. I admit though do not know the specs all that well for the two subs, just proffering general physics.

Also, that sub doesnt meet my size requirement mentioned in the first post.

19" absolute max width

So Im back on the hunt for a pair of subs. I knew this day would come...
A couple changes though:

New budget = $1800
New Width requirement = No more than 22 inches wide
New Height requirement = No more than 29 inches high

I still havent decided if I want to go sealed or ported. I guess I want the best of both worlds- loud deep bass that sounds good.

I will eventally get two if I can only afford one right now. But I would want that one to be better than what I have.
I have two A2-300s and a CSW P1000(sealed dual 10"-1000watts). I want to replace all three with the new sub/s.

Here are some contestants. Prices include shipping.

Ported:
Dynasty - 18" 600 watts $1400
Phoenix - 18" 600 watts $1200
A7-350 - 15" 1300 watts $1200
A5-350 - 15" 500 watts $700

Sealed:
A7S-450 - 18" 1300 watts $800
ULS-15 - 15" 1200 watts $1160
Dragon - 15" 600 watts $1100

I am kind of leaning towards the pair of A7S-450s for $1600 shipped. But Im afraid I may be missing out on some of the deep output that a ported enclosure would provide.
I also like the slot port and the idea of an 18" driver in the Dynasty but I could only get one right now.

Is there anything else I should consider. What would you do?
(Not interested in DIY suggestions)

epik dynasty gets my vote

Which sub would win:
Epik Dynasty or the PB-13 Ultra?

DIY. just have somebody build the boxs for you. = 2 for one.

have u considered using 4 subs....

I couldnt fit 4 in my room. Im pushing it right now with three. One reason Im trying to get two good subs-so I can get rid of the other three.

Which sub would win:
Epik Dynasty or the PB-13 Ultra?

What does winning mean?
Output: Dynasty would win. Depth: PB13 in 15hz tune. Looks: PB13. Control options: PB13. SQ: That's the real question. I don't know the answer.

I couldnt fit 4 in my room. Im pushing it right now with three. One reason Im trying to get two good subs-so I can get rid of the other three.

Have you compared the sound quality of the (ported) A2-300's to (sealed) CSW P-1000?

Such a comparison may give you some idea of what you would be getting with a pair of A7S-450's.

One thing you would get is a substantial amount of mid-bass. IIRC, the A7S-450 really shines in the mid-bass, but is not flat to 20 Hz like some of the best ported subs.

You could also save up for a while longer and make a big leap to the Seaton Submersive. That would be the route I would take.

On that budget, I would get two Rythmik 15s. Save a bit more however, and you could get a Seaton Submersive. A little bit more than that and you could get a ULS-15 dual drive. Life is too short to deal with ported subwoofers.

Life is too short to deal with ported subwoofers.

Meaning?

Meaning?

yea, please explain.

Ported subs are bigger and bulkier, the ports need spacial accommodation to work with, and also you have to deal with inappropriate sounds from the ports, like chuffing. Although ported subs can sound as tight as a sealed subs, they mostly do not, with some exceptions of course. And while you do sacrifice output in a sealed design, they still get plenty loud enough for me. Personally, I like the sound better, I like the placement flexibility better, and I like the way they look more. I won't be going back to ported subs.

Ported subs are bigger and bulkier, the ports need spacial accommodation to work with, and also you have to deal with inappropriate sounds from the ports, like chuffing. Although ported subs can sound as tight as a sealed subs, they mostly do not, with some exceptions of course. And while you do sacrifice output in a sealed design, they still get plenty loud enough for me. Personally, I like the sound better, I like the placement flexibility better, and I like the way they look more. I won't be going back to ported subs.

On average I would say that's true but also depends on the sealed and ported sub in comparison. The Sentinel has a 20x14.5 footprint, the F12 has a footprint 15.75x17 and the F15 has a 19x20 footprint. The two 12" designs are basically the same with the numbers averaged and the 15" sealed is slightly bigger.

Spacial accomidation for a port is not that big of a deal. There are many downfiring ports that are designed less than 2" from the floor. There are also a growing number of front ported designs if one deemed this to be an issue for some reason.

I've heard no more or less inappropriate sounds coming from my current Sentinel than I did with my previous Rythmik.

Ported subs are bigger and bulkier, the ports need spacial accommodation to work with, and also you have to deal with inappropriate sounds from the ports, like chuffing. Although ported subs can sound as tight as a sealed subs, they mostly do not, with some exceptions of course. And while you do sacrifice output in a sealed design, they still get plenty loud enough for me. Personally, I like the sound better, I like the placement flexibility better, and I like the way they look more. I won't be going back to ported subs.

It's true that ported subs are bigger, but you typically need twice as many sealed subs to match the output of one ported sub. That negates the small size advantage. Chuffing only happens near the sub's limits which usually typically are much higher than the sealed sub's limits for equivelent priced subs. If the ported sub doesn't approach it's limits, then chuffing isn't a problem. While sealed subs will never have port noise, they tend to have much lower limits before harmonic and compression distortion become a factor.

In my experience, sealed subs "get lost" in rooms that are large and open. To get satisfying bass output in rooms like that, you typically need at least two if not more sealed subs for HT use. On the other hand, in a small closed room, a good sealed sub or subs might be better for the job.

With either design there are always tradeoffs.

Agreed.
My CSW P1000 has a very nice musical tight sound to it. However, the dual A2-300s get louder and deeper. For the time being Im using the P1000 as a mid bass module (50-150Hz) and is working out really well. My ultimate goal is to have two subs that dig deep, sound good, and provide well in the upper bass too. I may end up keeping the P1000 for that upper bass range(since it does so well) and get a pair of something else to take care of the bottom end.
But yes, I can attest that I like the sound quality more of a sealed sub. But I love that deep deep rumble too.

BTY, has anyone used this analysis: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=998318&highlight=craigsub+analysis
to come up with comparable scores for subs not rated by craigsub.
I did for a few subs and came up with an HT score of 49 for the A5-350, 52 for the ULS-15, and 54 for both the Dynasty and the A7-350. Again, these are only 95% accurate. Pretty crazy though. I did it for some of the subs that were rated and what I got was within the 5% error. Pretty interesting.
Conquest: 61
Castle: 57
PB13-Ultra: 55
JL f113: 54
Cant really live by all that but its interesting to see how the subs compare by one rating system.

Agreed.
My CSW P1000 has a very nice musical tight sound to it. However, the dual A2-300s get louder and deeper. For the time being Im using the P1000 as a mid bass module (50-150Hz) and is working out really well. My ultimate goal is to have two subs that dig deep, sound good, and provide well in the upper bass too. I may end up keeping the P1000 for that upper bass range(since it does so well) and get a pair of something else to take care of the bottom end.
But yes, I can attest that I like the sound quality more of a sealed sub. But I love that deep deep rumble too.

That's funny, I'm using a pair of CSW P1000s as MBMs along with my LFM-1EX. I've been trying to find a new sub (or pair) that would be louder, deeper, and offer more midbass slam, so far no luck. I may just end up with a second LFM-1EX, and keep the MBMs!

And while you do sacrifice output in a sealed design[snip]

...At and around tuning (Fb). Below tuning a ported design sacrifices output. That was an easy victory.

See, below tuning, a sealed designs 2nd-order slope profile can yield more bass due to the shallower roll-off. Using the transfer function of the room in combination with the 2nd-order slope can yield potentially much higher levels of output below resonance versus the tuning frequency of a ported sub (all things being equal).

Regards,

Still havent decided...
Now Im wondering if I should get one more expensive subs rather than the two less expensive subs.
Sealed vs Ported aside, what would you pick?
1 epik Dynasty or 2 ed A7S-450s(about $200 more)

get two Epik Sentinels.

Still havent decided...
Now Im wondering if I should get one more expensive subs rather than the two less expensive subs.
Sealed vs Ported aside, what would you pick?
1 epik Dynasty or 2 ed A7S-450s(about $200 more)

I am a fan of dual subs. The added headroom and the ability to use them to even out the response is generally preferable to my tastes than a little more extension. Dual Sentinels, Dual VTF3 MK III's or dual SVS PB12-NSD's should be near your budget and should provide you with plenty of impact and extension.

I am a fan of dual subs. The added headroom and the ability to use them to even out the response is generally preferable to my tastes than a little more extension. Dual Sentinels, Dual VTF3 MK III's or dual SVS PB12-NSD's should be near your budget and should provide you with plenty of impact and extension.

Are you recommending those over the A7S-450 or just as additional options?

I had dual VTF3 MK3's and now have dual A7S-450's. They both are different in SQ. I would give the nod to HSU for SQ and Ed for Output. I wanted output so that's why I ended up with Ed's 450's.

Bill

I have dual A5-350-s. For me at 14 feet away, two facing into the wall is pretty severe. They rumble my sectional, and sound terrific. Main use is HT & PS3.

How big is your room? Any of the dual Epik 18" drivers will be killer. My Dragon sound and feels great.

The room is only about 10' x 12' x 9' but its open to the downstairs great room, so I need more than the norm for that size room.

So I have it down to these:
pair of A5-350, A7S-450 or Rythmik F15(dont know much about this sub, but a lot of people like it).

They are all within budget and seem to be better than any other pair of subs at a similar price. I've decided I want the pair now rather than getting a bigger sub and adding another down the road. Coming from a pair of A2-300s I think either of the above would be a significant upgrade. I like the sound of a sealed sub, but I also like the output of a ported sub. 90+ percent HT. So here I am trying to decide...
Any experience with these subs, please share?
Any reasons to go one way or the other?

if your after SQ get the rythmiks if your after output get the ED's

i just ordered a rythmik 15 myself. :)

get two Epik Sentinels.

+1.

A lot of value and output for the dollar. I have a Phoenix and it is quite amazing especially at the price. I wouldn't rule out a Epik sub yet, but I would get duals if I could.

Hello everyone I am in the process of buying a speaker system and I am completely clueless about what to look for when buying speakers and a subwoofer.

Can someone tell me what I should be looking for when buying speakers and a subwoofer. I have read that power wattage is not the most important when dealing wit the sound quality of a speaker or sub.

I would also like to know what the speaker terminology means that is usually listed when reviewing the specification on speakers and subs. Here is an example:

Specifications:

Frequency Response Sat: 115Hz-20KHz; Center: 110Hz-20KHz
Power Handling 100 Watts
Recommended Amplifier Power 20 - 100 Watts RMS (Continuous)
Impedance 8-ohm compatible
Tweeter ¾-inch (19 mm) Hyperbolic™ aluminum-dome
Woofer 3-inch poly-titanium
Sensitivity (2 speakers in a typical room) 89dB
Crossover Point 2.9 kHz
Overall Dimensions (inches) Sat: 6 7/8 x 4 1/8 x 4 1/8; Center: 4 1/8 x 10 1/4 x 4 1/8
Weight Sat: 4 x 2.9 lbs; Center: 3.2 lb

Besides the weight; what does all this mean???

Hello everyone I am in the process of buying a speaker system and I am completely clueless about what to look for when buying speakers and a subwoofer.

Can someone tell me what I should be looking for when buying speakers and a subwoofer. I have read that power wattage is not the most important when dealing wit the sound quality of a speaker or sub.

I would also like to know what the speaker terminology means that is usually listed when reviewing the specification on speakers and subs. Here is an example:

Specifications:

Frequency Response Sat: 115Hz-20KHz; Center: 110Hz-20KHz
Power Handling 100 Watts
Recommended Amplifier Power 20 - 100 Watts RMS (Continuous)
Impedance 8-ohm compatible
Tweeter ¾-inch (19 mm) Hyperbolic™ aluminum-dome
Woofer 3-inch poly-titanium
Sensitivity (2 speakers in a typical room) 89dB
Crossover Point 2.9 kHz
Overall Dimensions (inches) Sat: 6 7/8 x 4 1/8 x 4 1/8; Center: 4 1/8 x 10 1/4 x 4 1/8
Weight Sat: 4 x 2.9 lbs; Center: 3.2 lb

Besides the weight; what does all this mean???

not to be mean, but don't jack the guys thread, start a new one.

Sorry about that, can you provide me with a thread that could assist me.

+1.

A lot of value and output for the dollar. I have a Phoenix and it is quite amazing especially at the price. I wouldn't rule out a Epik sub yet, but I would get duals if I could.

don't forget to mention sound quality. my Sentinel sounds very tight and musical. my main goal was to have a sub for music duty that could also survive a bass heavy movie at -10 or so. i couldn't be happier.

also, i would think 2 Sentinels should have more output than a single Phoenix. then, depending on your layout you could place one next to each main.

Sorry about that, can you provide me with a thread that could assist me.

i was suggesting to start your own thread in this same section. people will be willing to help you out.

This papolauco guy is now beginning to piss me off. This is the third time has copy pasted that post into other peoples threads. I just said the same thing as you about making a new thread, and apparently he didnt listen to you as he made those other posts after yours.

I like the idea of dual Phoenix but I wouldnt be able to get both right now. Ive only got about 1500-1800 to spend. the dual Phoenix would cost me about 2400 after shipping. But I was on that boat for a while.
Im sure the Sentinals are nice, but Im coming from dual A2-300s which are 12" ported subs, so Im not sure I would see that much of an improvement. My thing is, if Im gonna spend this much money I want a big difference. I know the Sentinals would be better and I like the slot port look, but I think the money could be better spent. Thats why Ive got it down to pretty much the A5-350 or the A7S-450. Even the Rythmiks are pushing the budget.

Even the Rythmiks are pushing the budget.[/QUOTE]

If you construct the boxes yourself, as I did, you might be off +/-$100.

OK, so I made a recent purchase to upgrade my prepro, so I am back on the sub upgrade.
It seems the Av123 issues may have been resolved(still hard to tell), so I may consider a pair of the MFW-15s. So the three options (shipped) are:

Pair of A7S-450 -- $1600
Pair of A5-350 -- $1400
Pair of MFW-15 -- $1160

If it were you and these were the three options(considering the difference in price), which way would you go and why?

OK, so I made a recent purchase to upgrade my prepro, so I am back on the sub upgrade.
It seems the Av123 issues may have been resolved(still hard to tell), so I may consider a pair of the MFW-15s. So the three options (shipped) are:

Pair of A7S-450 -- $1600
Pair of A5-350 -- $1500
Pair of MFW-15 -- $1160

If it were you and these were the three options(considering the difference in price), which way would you go and why?

To me they all have their own benefits, the MFW's are very nicely priced with money saved, come with some risk, but have a reputation for solid performance. Between the A7 and A5 it would be down to ported vs sealed. Tough choice since I haven't heard any of them but if looks are important I'd maybe take a risk on the MFWs. Not saying that the eD's are ugly cause I'm sure they are well built.

May be you will reconsider those options after you hear :"Rythmik Audio" subs.
This is no joke.
And you can try them for a month. Nothing to loose.
I did not return mine because from the first note after I plugged it and til now I'm wondering what else would anyone want from a sub?

Out of curiousity, why are you not considering the Outlaw LFM-1 EX if you are looking at subs like the SVS PB-12 NSD and HSU 3.3. I honestly don't know if any of these are better than the other (all 12" drivers with 325watt amp), but I do know the SVS is most affordable of the 3.

IMO, The eD does not back their subs with a decent warranty (only 1 year on electronics).

The MFW-15, IMHO, would be the undisputed winner in its price point; however, the amp problem is still not solved. If some people are having success with the new MFW amps, it has only been a mas of a few weeks. That is not enough time to call it safe if many people are on their 4th amp.

If you are looking for music + HT applications, many people seem to love the SQ of their HSU compared to other ported subs in that class. My sub use would only be for HT, so with my budget (similar to you) I would never consider a sealed sub. Here is a thread that I started a few months back:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16678209#post16678209

Im not really considering those 12" subs any more. I am coming from dual 12" subs and wanted larger drivers/amps. As mentioned above, the three subs I am trying to decide between are:
Pair of A7S-450 -- $1600
Pair of A5-350 -- $1400
Pair of MFW-15 -- $1160

Im not really considering those 12" subs any more. I am coming from dual 12" subs and wanted larger drivers/amps. As mentioned above, the three subs I am trying to decide between are:
Pair of A7S-450 -- $1600
Pair of A5-350 -- $1500
Pair of MFW-15 -- $1160

The A5-350s are $1400 a pair, shipping included. What with the power inrush issue with the 450s and the many issues the MFWs have had, I'd go with dual A5-350s for $1400!

Sorry guys, Im all over the place with this purchase. For the money I just want to make sure I make the best decision. I understand ulimately it will be my decision, I just like hearing peoples opinions, especially if they have heard comparisons or own one of the subs I am considering.

I am now trying to decide if I should stick with previous choices or go with a single Phoenix now and save up some over the next while and get a second down the road. I have heard great thinggs about the epik line and like the size of the phoenix and the fact that it is ported(downfiring ports) and even the option to go sealed(dont know if I would ever use sealed mode).

Decisions, decisions...

Aw, just save up a bit more (well...okay, a lot more) and buy a Danley DTS-20 and be done with it. Or...if you can put the sub under/near your seating, a Danley TH-SPUD.

Other than that, dual MFW-15's would be my vote.

Those Danleys nor a submersive would ever fly in my small room.
Ive got my A2-300s up for sale so my purchase should be in the next couple weeks.
Im thinking I will go ported due to my room opening up to my downstairs great room.
I am really considering the epik Phoenix but I would only be able to get one at this time. I would get a second around Christmas time. The other option is to get a pair of A5-350s or MFWs. I like the idea of a 600watt 18" ported enclosure that isnt super huge. Does anyone know how a single Phoenix would compare to a pair of A5-350s or MFWs. Keep in mind I would add another phoenix in a few months. In your opinion, are the dual phoenix worth the $1000 difference over the dual A5-350s?

I have one of the new A5-350's and I'm already in bass Heaven.. I can't even imagine two! That would be so frickin sweet, but I have no room in my condo for another!

Go for it man, you will not be dissapointed in the two A5-350's for $1400 shipped!

Those Danleys nor a submersive would ever fly in my small room.


If you have a couch, put a Danley TH-Spud under it. Also goes great on the wall behind...remember it is only 11" deep.

Those Danleys nor a submersive would ever fly in my small room.
Ive got my A2-300s up for sale so my purchase should be in the next couple weeks.
Im thinking I will go ported due to my room opening up to my downstairs great room.
I am really considering the epik Phoenix but I would only be able to get one at this time. I would get a second around Christmas time. The other option is to get a pair of A5-350s or MFWs. I like the idea of a 600watt 18" ported enclosure that isnt super huge. Does anyone know how a single Phoenix would compare to a pair of A5-350s or MFWs. Keep in mind I would add another phoenix in a few months. In your opinion, are the dual phoenix worth the $1000 difference over the dual A5-350s?

FYI.... A submersive is barely bigger than a MFW15 both of which are smaller than a PB13/ultra.

Those Danleys nor a submersive would ever fly in my small room.
Ive got my A2-300s up for sale so my purchase should be in the next couple weeks.
Im thinking I will go ported due to my room opening up to my downstairs great room.
I am really considering the epik Phoenix but I would only be able to get one at this time. I would get a second around Christmas time. The other option is to get a pair of A5-350s or MFWs. I like the idea of a 600watt 18" ported enclosure that isnt super huge. Does anyone know how a single Phoenix would compare to a pair of A5-350s or MFWs. Keep in mind I would add another phoenix in a few months. In your opinion, are the dual phoenix worth the $1000 difference over the dual A5-350s?

The phoenix is a good sub, but keep in mind that with most drivers, it will perform better in a larger ported enclosure than in a smaller one. That is one of the reasons the A2-300 is able to perform so well given that it has (relatively speaking) cheap components.

I think given your desire for adequate output, a pair of A5-350's would be your best bet.

If you have a couch, put a Danley TH-Spud under it. Also goes great on the wall behind...remember it is only 11" deep.

Not gonna work in my room.

FYI.... A submersive is barely bigger than a MFW15 both of which are smaller than a PB13/ultra.

I looked up the submersive dimensions: 24.25"*W x 17.5"*D x 25.5" H

For some reason I thought it was a huge sub. Still the problem is the price. Its a few hundered over budget and that my December budget.

Plus, I like the idea of having two subs. My room is a mess and the dual setup really helps.

Couple questions to help finalize my decision:

A single MFW vs a single A5-350: which would have more output?
I know the ed is a 150w more and a slightly larger enclosure, so by the specs I would say the ed. But there is more to a sub then the specs. Anyone have experience comparing the two? craigsub(the only comparison I've found) rated the mfw higher but it was the old 350 that was tested.

And lastly, Would dual MFWs or dual A5-350s outperform a single epik Phoenix?

Couple questions to help finalize my decision:

A single MFW vs a single A5-350: which would have more output?
I know the ed is a 150w more and a slightly larger enclosure, so by the specs I would say the ed. But there is more to a sub then the specs. Anyone have experience comparing the two? craigsub(the only comparison I've found) rated the mfw higher but it was the old 350 that was tested.

And lastly, Would dual MFWs or dual A5-350s outperform a single epik Phoenix?

Dual subs will out perform a single sub. Dual Phoenixs will out perform a single Conquest. I want to make a correction. The Dragon is a sealed 18" driver.

Dual subs will out perform a single sub. Dual Phoenixs will out perform a single Conquest.

Chad told me the same thing about the dual Phoenix. And that makes sense: 2 18" drivers vs one and 1200 watts vs 1000.
But my question is would dual MFWs or dual A5-350s outperform a single epik Phoenix?
This is not so clear cut, 2 15" drivers and 600 watts vs 1 18" driver with 600 watts.
I would think they would outperfrom the phoenix, but I dont know for sure or by how much (db wise).

But my question is would dual MFWs or dual A5-350s outperform a single epik Phoenix?
This is not so clear cut, 2 15" drivers and 600 watts vs 1 18" driver with 600 watts.
I would think they would outperfrom the phoenix, but I dont know for sure or by how much (db wise).


If you want pure output then 2 subs is usually greater than one sub (especially with the wattage being similar). I was leery buying a MFW from some comments on this board, and the issues with the amps which may or may not have been resolved, plus the cost of the MFW's is not including shipping, so I went with the elemental designs A5-350. One is enough for me and my wife, but i'd sure love to have the space to have two of them bad boys :D

You really can't make a bad decision but I would say that two subs either the MFWs or the A5350s will make your very very happy. I can't stop grinning when I think about literally blowing my friends away with just one sub! :D

Chad told me the same thing about the dual Phoenix. And that makes sense: 2 18" drivers vs one and 1200 watts vs 1000.
But my question is would dual MFWs or dual A5-350s outperform a single epik Phoenix?
This is not so clear cut, 2 15" drivers and 600 watts vs 1 18" driver with 600 watts.
I would think they would outperfrom the phoenix, but I dont know for sure or by how much (db wise).

Adding another same sub, you are getting +3-4db's more than one.

Holy crap...how long have you been farting around with this?

Just make a decision already...:rolleyes:

Holy crap...how long have you been farting around with this?

Just make a decision already...:rolleyes:


Sorry if I have been holding you up and making you click on this thread.
Feel free to move on...
If I'm throwing around $1500 I dont want to regret my purchase.


I guess my ultimate question is this:
I eventually want dual subs. I can get the dual MFW15s or dual A5-350s right now or a single Phoenix now and another down the road. I have a feeling I may think, why did I pay over $1000 more for dual Phoenix when the dual MFWs or 350s may have been enough. But then I dont want to go the other way either thinking I should have just spent the extra dough and gone with the dual Phoenix. Im trying to guestimate how much increase I would get with the dual Phoenix over dual whatever else. I understand whether that difference is "worth" it, will be my choice. I just need some data to go off of.

And then if I dont go with the Phoenix, the MFWs and 350s are only a couple hundered dollars difference. So again, I am trying to weigh the benefits vs price.

Thats why Ive been reading, searching and asking for experiences with any of these subs to try and determine(without listening to any of them) which way to go. Thats why Im procastinating until Im more confident Im making the right decision. $1500 and approval from the wifey don't come around that often, in my world at least.

I have a single Dragon in my 12x10 room and it's more than enough. I've hit 112db with it. I could imgaine how another Dragon would feel and sound like. I can't and will not get another one anyway. It's just too too much headroom. If you want great output and forget about the "what if" get the dual Phoenix. The Phoenix is an amazing sub with great output for it's size. There are many subs that are much bigger and more expensive for what the Phoenix does. It's also compared to the SVS Ultra13.

Ok. Looking to make the call today.
I just need to decide between a pair of MFW-15s for $1160 shipped or a pair of the A5-350s for $1400 shipped.
Which one would you choose and why?
(Please do not suggest anything else-Ive already considered every other option)

Ok. Looking to make the call today.
I just need to decide between a pair of MFW-15s for $1160 shipped or a pair of the A5-350s for $1400 shipped.
Which one would you choose and why?
(Please do not suggest anything else-Ive already considered every other option)


We already went over this in the thread man make a decision! But i'd go for the dual A5-350's because it would only cost me $800 since I already have one! ;)

Oh and I tested out my sub with an SPL meter and it hit 115db at my seating position 11' away with more volume to spare in a 6600 cuft room.

Ended up ordering a pair of the MFW-15s.

The way my room is set up the MFWs will allow me to keep it how it is. The A5-350s would have required some adjustments to my component rack I recently built. I also like the finish more on the MFWs and they cost me $325 less than the eds. I know the eds have a little more wattage and a slightly larger cabinet. They would have probably given a little more output, but I think the MFWs will be a significant enough upgrade to what Im running now.
Thanks everyone for your input. I will report my findings in a couple weeks.

I posted this over in the MFW forum as well:


For those that haven’t followed my new sub decision, here is a quick rundown on my situation.

Prior to all this, I had a pair of the ed A2-300s and a Cambridge Soundworks P1000. I had the P1000 dedicated to my upper bass range (50-150Hz) and was very happy with the mid-bass punch it provided. The A2-300s were more for the lower bass. At one point I had two buttkickers installed under my seats to give a little extra oomph to the <20Hz stuff. My objective was to get a pair of subs that weren’t too big and weren’t too expensive that would replace and give better results than all three subs.

I considered a couple subs from ed, epik, SVS, and HSU, but in the end it came down to the MFWs or the ed A5-350s. These were both in my budget and seemed like a good upgrade from what I had. I ended up going with the MFWs because they were a little smaller and actually fit in my room without causing any rearrangement. The finish is on a different level all together and the price difference for duals shipped was $315 in favor of the MFWs. The price and the finish were the deal-breakers for me. I could have made the others fit.

Anyhow, long story short I ordered a pair of MFWs on Wednesday, they were shipped out on Thursday and they were here in my house by Saturday. I did the yellow freight method and picked them up from a shipping center about 45 minutes from my house. I was told they would arrive on Tuesday so a call at about 10:00am Saturday morning, while I was organizing the garage, was quite a pleasant surprise.

Before I left, I unhooked the old subs and got the room ready for a quick hookup for when I got home with the new subs. I unpacked the subs and slid them into their new resting places. The satin finish was beautiful and great for sliding on carpet. Hooked into the LFE input , set the gain at 12 o’clock and turned them on. My first demo was War of the Worlds. I remember very well what this sounded like with my previous subs. All I can say is that the MFWs performed as I hoped. They provided that deep rumble but also some good mid-bass impact too. The biggest surprise for me was how much mid-bass punch these had. I had my P1000 still hooked up and ready to add-in to see if it was still needed, but it was overshadowed by the MFWs. I’m getting rid of that sub too.

I proceeded with the usuals: Kung-Fu Panda, Iron Man, Hulk. My final disc was with Flight of the Phoenix. This is the scene I always show when friends/family come over when the plane is diving and you get that constant super deep bass tone. I played it through and was floored with the difference. These things put out some serious bass. Just for kicks I bumped the gain up to about 1-2 o’clock to see what these things could do and played the scene again. It was obviously a lot more than I would want when setting down and watching a movie, but I just wanted to see. The plane was coming down, my room was shaking, my head was hurting and all of a sudden I heard a crash/pop/hiss sound. I was sure one of the amps or a speaker blew! I shut everything down and went over to the subs and smelled for that familiar smell I remember from car audio days. Didn’t smell anything. Meanwhile my wife is yelling what was that?!?! Was that my frame? Sure enough, I turned around and a frame had fallen off the wall in the hallway with busted glass everywhere! End result-I had to stop the demo and clean it all up - the subs are ok.

So I still need to check them out with music and rerun Audessey but first impressions are awesome.

I don't remember reading it and am too lazy to read back. What finish did you end up going with??

Glad you like the new subs.

I got the satin black. My speakers and rack are all black, so it fits in nicely.
I should have some pics up tonight or tomorrow.