Hello everyone,

Last sub I had was the Velodyne VA1250X,
had a 12 inch front and 15 inch passive on bottom.
paid about $600 for it and LOVED IT, had it almost 10 years and I guess the amp finally gave out after we had an unusual power spike.

Called Velodyne and they will replace the amp for about $200, but I hate to repair things like this so I am looking for options. Room is about 15W x 25L and 10 ft. ceilings. The old Velo sitting in the corner was very good at filling the room with bass and I liked the way the bass rolled across the floor and walls. This is mostly for HT use.

I have narrowed it down to two brands:

SVS vs. Velodyne.

This is the current Velodyne I am considering:

Velodyne DLS-5000R 15" includes a Remote
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_3/velodyne-dls-5000r-subwoofer-9-2005-part-1.html

This is an $800 sub and I can get that model for 590.00 on gray market locally. But they will only give me 1 year warranty as opposed to authorized retailer warranty. I like the idea of a remote. No shipping cost.

These are the closest subs I can find to
that price in the SVS product line...

PB12-NSD Box for $569 plus S&H
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12nsd.cfm

options include...

New PC12-NSD Cylinder for $569 plus S&H
http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pc12_nsd.cfm

They are also offering the older 25-31PCi for $499.

Warning: I am not very technical about understanding sound charts and such. Never heard of SVS until recently but I like the reviews. Also 3 year warranty. I have had trouble finding a comprehensive review on this model similar to the write up on the Velo I linked above, if anyone knows of a full review on the NSD please let me know.

Decisions, decisions... so how do you think these new subs will compare to each other,
and also to the old Velo which I loved?

ttt...

On paper, the DLS should be a terrific performer. It isn't rated to go as deep as the SVS, but it's 15" driver and bigger amp should get good mid bass performance. I tried to demo one, but the only one I found locally had a broken amp. So I haven't actually heard one. It is a nice looking sub. My biggest concern with the DLS series is there aren't many ecstatic owners in this forum. With it's size, amp, finish, and remote, I would expect more posts from happy owners. On the other hand, I don't hear much criticism of it either.

Conversely, the SVS gets a lot of praise even though it is SVS' entry sub. I doesn't have the features or finish of the Velo, but it is a good performer.

I have the SVS PB12-NSD. Awesome sub, it's better looking than you would imagine, but sound quality is what counts and that is where all the money is goin. Great sub.

Thanks for the comments guys, keep 'em coming... :)

I guess my biggest problem with the Velo 5000R is in order to stay in my budget I would be buying it gray market, and so that only gives me one year warranty max, as opposed to three years bumper to bumper with the SVS product. After all the reviews and when the dust settles, that may be the deciding factor. I just really wish I could find someone on here who has first hand experience with both of these models...

you already did :)

I owned a DLS-4000R. This is all just my opinion. I am sure there are happy DLS owners out there.

I got mine very cheap used on ebay. Something like 25% MSRP. I read many good reviews of a similar model on some audioreview site. Some people absolutely gushed about it. Also, you tend to find that these subs sell for far less than MSRP. Almost like Velo is trying to trick you into thinking you're getting more than you actually are. I don't mean to single them out - plenty of retail shop companies do this - and even some ID.

At any rate, I feel lucky that is all I paid for it. Having now heard what other brands offer, I would have been very disappointed if I had purchased it new. It was very underwhelming, in my opinion. I owned it for about 4 months, 2 of which I spent looking for a replacement. I tired of it very quickly - shortly after running some test tones to find out it not only did not put out 25hz at all, but barely peeped at 27, and what I would consider to be usable (ie: not completely distorted) sound began at more like 30hz. After the research I had done, I really expected more. I had been on these forums, but thought I could do better than the advice I was reading around here, and spend much less.

I now own an MFW-15, which retails about the price of your 5000R. Honestly, I feel I get my money's worth with the MFW in ways that I did not with the 4000R. The MFW-15 blew away my expectations.

I have heard a lot of great things about SVS, and the NSD line. Many owners frequently post that they are very happy with their purchases - even people who have owned other subs in the past. I don't think you find the same of the Velo DLS line. To me it appears to be mostly those coming from HTIB who think those are really good upgrades.

Given my experience with the Velo DLS line (the remote was cool for about 3 days - then it was gimmicky because I kept it in full extension mode), and the many glowing reviews of SVS subs, I would recommend the SVS in this comparison.

Good luck.

Noubourne, thanks for your thoughts I appreciate it...
my experience with Velo sound quality was great, but of course I wish it would have kept going!

I agree with you on SVS, there are a LOT of great comments on the forums and that is one of the things that makes me feel like I will have try their sub and see how it sounds in my home.

However I have to admit, I was surprised to hear complaints that some of those happy forum members were actually SVS employees (?) Apparently they admitted several years ago that forum participation of their staff was the "driving force" behind their marketing strategy. So naturally, that made me a little skeptical about exactly who is out there "singing the praises." More on that here, for what it's worth:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29188&highlight=svs+banned

from that link:

They freely admitted to us that forum participation of their staff and SVS owners is the driving force behind their marketing strategy. This is actually kind of intelligent - until it is abused.

However I have to admit, I was surprised to hear complaints that some of those happy forum members were actually SVS employees (?) Apparently they admitted several years ago that forum participation of their staff was the "driving force" behind their marketing strategy. So naturally, that made me a little skeptical about exactly who is out there "singing the praises." More on that here, for what it's worth:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29188&highlight=svs+banned

that's the wrong conclusion to derive from the link. misquote actually.

that's the wrong conclusion to derive from the link. misquote actually.

Now hold on a minute sir.
You will notice I PROVIDED THE LINK MYSELF, so others can make their own conclusions if they want. I didn't use quote marks, so what exactly was MISQUOTED?

Now hold on a minute sir.
You will notice I PROVIDED THE LINK MYSELF, so others can make their own conclusions if they want. I didn't use quote marks, so what exactly was MISQUOTED?

not exactly a misquote (sorry wrong word) ... but misleading

it was this:

happy forum members were actually SVS employees (?) Apparently they admitted several years ago that forum participation of their staff was the "driving force" behind their marketing strategy

misleading in the sense that they "admitted" to pretending to be forum members. which was not the case.

not exactly a misquote (sorry wrong word) ... but misleading

it was this:

misleading in the sense that they "admitted" to pretending to be forum members. which was not the case.

Hmmm, well maybe I missed your meaning.
But there is nothing "misleading" in my post at all, the link is right there and as they say---"it is what it is."

I didn't draw any conclusions, or make any claims, I merely stated as a consumer that I was surprised to hear about it and how I felt after reading it.

Is Axiom still an advertiser over there? I don't get any of it, was SVS trashing their site? It sounds like someone got their panties in a wad to me. But, I have been banned off of more sites than I can recall. Really kinda odd that I am even still here, and I own an SVS sub, go figure?

And to the op, SVS makes a fine sub for the money, very happy with my PC13-Ultra earthquake machine... Oh, and I do not work for them.

And I have an old Velodyne 12", cannot complain, works great, but nowhere near the SVS for shaking a room and irritating our shelties.:D

Hmmm, well maybe I missed your meaning.
But there is nothing "misleading" in my post at all, the link is right there and as they say---"it is what it is."

I didn't draw any conclusions, or make any claims, I merely stated as a consumer that I was surprised to hear about it and how I felt after reading it.Not to pick at an old scar, but SVS also published their own rebuttal. So I chalked it up to he said/she said. Decide for your self.

"Monday, 05 February, 2007: A rare public rebuttal from SVS

This statement is in response to recent allegations made by the owners and operators of “Audioholics”, an Internet Audio/Video Magazine.

Despite repeated requests from "Audioholics" over the last two months for SVS to renew our advertising contract with their website, SVS notified Audioholics on January 31, 2007 that we would not be renewing an agreement for 2007. Our decision was due primarily to lower than expected returns on our investment based on customer surveys. At no point in these contract discussions, or the recent issuance of an Audioholics “Product of the Year Award”, or during the entire previous year, had the conduct of SVS been questioned by Audioholics as less than honest and productive.

After concluding our relationship, we were surprised and disappointed to learn the next day that SVS was supposedly “fired” by Audioholics as an advertiser. Audioholics apparently used the statements of a forum member as a pretense for "firing" SVS, insinuating that SVS "planted" the forum member to create controversy and boost SVS sales. Not only are these allegations patently false, they are damaging to SVS' reputation. SVS has never asked any Internet forum member to post anything on its behalf. We can only imagine that Audioholics "fired" SVS as a preemptive strike to protect its image (we would assume that no online magazine wants to be perceived as losing sponsors).

While we regularly participate in all the major A/V forums, both to answer questions about our products, and because we are still audio enthusiasts -- we ALWAYS identify ourselves as SVS employees whenever we discuss anything related to our products, or competitive products. We are an internet-direct business, and it should be self-evident that a significant portion of our sales revenue is derived from credible on-line professional reviews and from equally credible comments by satisfied customers.

With that said, it bears repeating: SVS does not tell anyone in the public what to say, and by extension has never paid anyone (or provided other incentives) for posting comments on our behalf. Nor do SVS employees post statements without identifying their relationship with SVS. If a given audio forum member questions what he perceives to be biased and preferential behavior on the part of Audioholics’ management with respect to its various advertisers, that is, of course, his or her prerogative, based on an opinion and motivation of his own. That such actions are beyond our control should be obvious as well.

Professional integrity and honesty are the very core values upon which SVS was founded nearly 8 years ago; without them we would have already ceased to flourish. For the tens of thousands of valued SVS customers, our personal commitment to those values and audio excellence remain, even in the face of spurious accusations such as these, whatever their motivation. An even greater array of new and improved world-class products and continued dedication to open and objective discourse are our promises to you for 2007."

the first sub i ever owned was a velodyne VX10...it was a POS to say the least...i started to come to this site after purchasing that subwoofer...this was in 2005 or 2006 i think...anyhow...i started reading about HSU, SVS, EPIK, eD, all the popular brands that are frequently tossed around on the forums...i decided to go to frys electronics and try out the DLS 5000R since they had a no frills return policy...it only stayed in my room for 2 days and i drove up to the HSU factory and purchased a VTF3HO with turbo...thats the nice thing about subwoofers...you can look at the benchmark numbers and get a VERY good idea as to how it performs/sounds/feels...granted no benchmark is an exact science so to speak...the DLS5000R does have clean output from 30hz on up...but from 30hz and under it was quite weak in my room...speaking of my room its 20X17X8...it rolled off almost immediately after 30hz...so the DLS5000R went back to frys and in came "the washing machine"...the old HSU subs arent noted for their good looks...but anywho, i say go for the SVS...it may not have quite the mid bass slam that the DLS5000R might have but it will be extremely close...plus the SVS will dig much much deeper

Ilkka tested the SVS here....http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/8151-svs-pb12-nsd-new.html

FYI, I have the HSU 3.3 and if the SVS goes deeper and sounds similar I am sure you will be quite happy.

Thanks for the comments everyone.

Wavey, I have heard several other people also mention your sentiment that the SVS may not have quite the mid bass punch of the DLS5000R, that's interesting... I do understand the SVS goes lower.

Ransac, just curious where did you get that company rebuttal, I can't seem to find that on their site or anywhere else. :confused:

Thanks for the comments everyone.

Ransac, just curious where did you get that company rebuttal, I can't seem to find that on their site or anywhere else. :confused:It's in the news section, but you have to scroll down quite a ways to find it. Look for the Feb. 5, 2007 date.

Thanks for the comments everyone.

Wavey, I have heard several other people also mention your sentiment that the SVS may not have quite the mid bass punch of the DLS5000R, that's interesting... I do understand the SVS goes lower.

Ransac, just curious where did you get that company rebuttal, I can't seem to find that on their site or anywhere else. :confused:

Have you read this review of the Velo 5000? We already know that it doesn't dig as deep as the PB-12 NSD, but the reviewer was pretty enthusiastic about the sound of the Velo 5000.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/2316/shootout-five-mid-price-subwoofers-velodyne-dls-5000r-hows-it-sound-page11.html

I share with you the concern about buying the Velo on the gray market. If you have a problem after one year, you will almost certainly wish that you had purchased the SVS.

The PB-12 is one of the bread-and-butter subs from SVS. 4th generation driver in a proven cabinet. Not the last word in sound quality for music, but hard to find a better all-a-round better sub, from a highly responsive company that will stand behind your purchase.

Don't get me wrong, sound quality for music is certainly good enough for ME. Getting better sound quality for music would cost you more, for something like the Rythmik that run around $800 plus shipping.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12.html

Spyboy, yes I did read that one by Ken Pohlmann, but thanks for reminding me of that article as I had forgotten about it, and I appreciate your other input as well.

As I stated in the op, I had excellent results from my last Velo, I guess I'm just finding it hard to accept that the 12 inch NSD with half the power of that 15 inch Velo 5000R could sound any better... but the warranty issue is huge for sure.

Guys, I'm going to need to do something soon, rented Slumdog Millionaire tonight and my big Klipsch towers did as decent a job as could be expected but I am having serious bass withdrawal syndrome!!! :(

The SVS 12 will definitely deliver if all you ask is HT. But I returned mine since I was 70% music to 30% HT. I kind of quickly looked at reviews, including Ilka's and just assumed it would fit me. Apparently the Hsu's are better in that regard (music), based on other forum reviews who've tried both the hsu and svs comparable subs. I ended up with an Asub based on craigsubs reviews and the fact they really blend well with my AE5's. With towers the svs would probably work great. Just keep in mind what they're tuned for.

jterp7, thanks for your comments...