I am getting ready to setup my HT and am looking at protecting it against lighting and sudden power outages. I have an Onkyo 6100 which is 1250 Watts, a 42" LCD TV, and a PS3.

Now I have been looking at surger protectors and battery backups but have no idea which one I should get. I saw that anything with a hard drive should have a battery backup so it can properly shut down, but also wanted to get some input on this subject because I am lost and have no idea.

Also if I get a surge protector what size should I get. And if I get a battery backup what size should I get?????

Sure hope someone can lead me in the right direction and help me out.

If you've got a device that uses a bulb and the manufacturer says a cool down period is required, then a UPS, sized to provide enough power for that cool down period would be beneficial.
The need for surge protection is based to some degree on whether you live in lightning prone areas and your own individual paranoia factor. Homeowners are best served with a two prong approach. The first line of defense is what's commonly referred to as a whole house system. That's typically installed by an electrician and located at the point your power and other incoming wires enter your home. That though runs a few hundred dollars. The second line of defense, which is often many peoples only line of defense are plug in units. So tell me (us), where do you fall in this? Got a budget in mind?

I am located in Northeast Indiana so we do get bad storms and lighting storms somewhat often during the warmer months. I am trying to stay fairly cheap but also looking for the best system to protect yet power all of my equipment.

Panamax, Trip-lite, Monster (cheaper ones), Furman for surge. UPS are for computers to save data, no place in the house. Look for responce times of 5ns or less. If not, then it is no better than the $12 version with just an MOV in it.
It is more important to install correctly and be sure everything is covered. Got good to protect the power when the cable or antenna blows you out.
Long before I wasted money on an UPS, I would but in an entrance panel mount suppressor.

I am located in Northeast Indiana so we do get bad storms and lighting storms somewhat often during the warmer months. I am trying to stay fairly cheap but also looking for the best system to protect yet power all of my equipment.
Yes you do, not to mention the tornados. Do you have your own home? Often the utility companies will install one (usually just AC) for about $10-$15 month.
BTW, I don't know if it applies to all of Indian, but what's up with the electrical rates? I know someone who lives in the Anderson area and they say they're getting hammered.

UPS are for computers to save data, no place in the house

Not true at all. As Chu stated above, a UPS is used for components such as DLP and LCoS HDTVs that have bulbs that need to be cooled during and after use.

As far as the OP's question though, based on his equipment I don't think a UPS would be something he needs.

Not true at all. As Chu stated above, a UPS is used for components such as DLP and LCoS HDTVs that have bulbs that need to be cooled during and after use.

As far as the OP's question though, based on his equipment I don't think a UPS would be something he needs.
Not only that, but I understand they're useful for AC powered facial massagers.

Not only that, but I understand they're useful for AC powered facial massagers.

Yeah I suppose you wouldn't want the power going out mid "massage". :D

Barnum's axiom: It is your duty to part a fool from his money. That's what makes capitalism great! :)
If you have a projector that can't take being powered off once and a while, you have a crap projector. Sorry, but if they are sold to be powered by standard power lines, they should be designed to be powered by standard power lines. In law, it is called "suitability for use clause". In engineering, we call it doing your job. If the ones out there can't handle it, we should do the other capitalistic action, buy a different one.

Hint, flywheels beat the heck out of batteries! Tell me when you install a 10KVA Libert flywheel for your HT! Then you could fully compete with the tornado and see who is louder.

Barnum's axiom: It is your duty to part a fool from his money. That's what makes capitalism great! :)
If you have a projector that can't take being powered off once and a while, you have a crap projector. Sorry, but if they are sold to be powered by standard power lines, they should be designed to be powered by standard power lines. In law, it is called "suitability for use clause". In engineering, we call it doing your job. If the ones out there can't handle it, we should do the other capitalistic action, buy a different one.

Hint, flywheels beat the heck out of batteries! Tell me when you install a 10KVA Libert flywheel for your HT! Then you could fully compete with the tornado and see who is louder.

Ummmm, they are designed to be powered by standard power lines and they work great for that. It's when the standard power line isn't giving up it's sacred nectar that we have a problem.

You see on certain televisions after you turn the power off a fan needs to continue to run for a certain period of time to cool the bulb. If there is a power outage, that doesn't happen and now you can see the need or desire for a UPS....hopefully you do anyway.

And no, the bulb doesn't expirience immediate failure if the fan doesn't cool it after use, but what happens is the life of the bulb is shortened.

Since my television is no longer made and most DLP sets currently in production use LEDs as opposed to bulbs it is no longer an issue to consider before purchase thankfully.

Since you have a desire to learn I thought I'd help you out. :) This way you don't have to continue yor pompous attitude and you would really know what you are talking about next time. You're welcome. ;)

Now I have been looking at surger protectors and battery backups but have no idea which one I should get. I saw that anything with a hard drive should have a battery backup so it can properly shut down, but also wanted to get some input on this subject because I am lost and have no idea.


The idea that thing with a hard drive should have a battery backup so it can properly shut down is now urban myth. Long ago before computer file systems became as sophisticated as they now are, they required proper shutdown or some kind of file recovery would be required. Those days ended almost a decade ago.

People figured out that anything that fell on its butt when the rug was jerked out from under it was impractical, and they took appropriate steps.

The same thing applies to video products.

First off, the only "bulb" in a LCD TV is a fluorescent bulb or several of them. We power cycle fluorescent bulbs all the time, right? No harm, no foul.

LCD TVs are the same technology as LCD computer displays. How many of those are plugged into plug strips and shut down without a cool down period? None asked for, none needed!

As Mr. Easy pointed out, even video projectors are built to take an occasional unplanned shut down. For example, I've been running large venue video projectors for over a decade.

Large venue video projectors are potentially more sensitive to uncontrolled shutdowns because they put out so many lumens and generate a lot of heat.

While it is good to treat them right, I admit it, I've pulled the plug on one or the other of them every once in a while.

I've got one large venue projector that has run for over 10 years with only occasional filter cleaning and a bulb change every few years. The other is about 3 years old and has required zero maintenance.

I also manage a small flock of boardroom projectors that are run by casual operators. People are pulling the plug on them all the time. No harm, no foul.

The cost benefit analysis tends towards the UPS when the bulb cost is high. When it's only a $100 or so, you might just be better off buying a couple of spare bulbs. Funny post though Easy!

The cost benefit analysis tends towards the UPS when the bulb cost is high. When it's only a $100 or so, you might just be better off buying a couple of spare bulbs. Funny post though Easy!

True. I bought a replacement bulb from some net vendor for $200 and a, dare I say it Monster UPS500 for $70 from a Tweeter when they were going out of business. I could've got a unit from APC for around $40 or $50 I suppose. But hey, the Monster unit has a sh*t load of fancy lights. :D

I am getting ready to setup my HT and am looking at protecting it against lighting and sudden power outages. I have an Onkyo 6100 which is 1250 Watts, a 42" LCD TV, and a PS3.

Now I have been looking at surger protectors and battery backups but have no idea which one I should get. I saw that anything with a hard drive should have a battery backup so it can properly shut down, but also wanted to get some input on this subject because I am lost and have no idea.

Also if I get a surge protector what size should I get. And if I get a battery backup what size should I get?????

Sure hope someone can lead me in the right direction and help me out.

Probably my favorite is very expensive but offer the best of all worlds...complete grid isolation wit reserve power storage. Power flow goes something like this.

Grid -> Power converter to DC -> Battery bank parallel w/ Inverter

Of course this is the highly simplified description. There are many important details to consider such as Inverter type...for AV work you'll likely want an accurate true sine wave output inverter. Batteries will last much longer with a computer controlled 3 stage converter or similar. Then there is the question of sizing everything properly... and so on. This is much like the power setup found in RV's only put it on steroids for a home environment.

This setup will typically give much better results than computer UPS's as they normally pass grid power through relying on circuitry to detect grid glitches and quickly switching to battery power . The problem with most of these is at least teofold 1. there is a delay while power is being switched from grid passing to battery backup and 2. most of the computer grade UPS's are using square wave or stepped psuedo sine wave output which is no where near ideal for consumer grade AV equipment.

OK, I only had 20 years in a failure analysis. That makes me a rookie I will grant and I know the world is full of many more informed than I. Seriously. But, that time gave me a case of attitude about our industry not doing an adequate job of engineering for the intended use. Way too much "engineering" takes place on Madison Ave and in the cost center. I did several studies on bulb failures in that time. Like 99.9% of every report I ever did, the root cause was miss-application for the intended use. Translation: Design fault. (The other .1% was just plain stupidity beyond categorization) What was amazing is how good parts are.

I am most familiar with older glass envelope bulbs. They would actually fail due to thermal shock of the envelope due to uneven cooling without the fan. It was not a shortening of the life. I do not know about the smaller quartz bulbs I think projectors use. We used to totally abuse them in the theater though.
But at what cost? ( Granted, they seriously rip off the HT consumers in this charging several hundred for a $40 bulb) How often does the power get pulled off? Of course, if it is an irreplaceable bulb, I would add a trickle current to it. If you never let it get cooler than mid-orange, it will last a very long time. ( I saw a Discovery show about a bulb over 90 years old in a fire house in Chicago I think. )

My rant:
Power lines provide power suitable for motors and 60W A bulbs. If you plug something else in, it had better take that into consideration. If you need an UPS, it should be part of the system as delivered, and not have to be added by the user. This is consumer gear. Plug and play. In IT, we know we have to add the PDU and UPS, but then that is why we hire system engineers to spec it. Consumers should not be asked to be systems engineers. They should be able to plug it is and enjoy.

My campaign is to alert the consumers we are not getting what we should. We should expect more. Demand more. Vote with your wallet.

All modern hard drives have a cap that will yank the heads off when powered off. You only need the UPS for flushing the data buffer and not loosing data. Graceful system shutdown. Head smacks are so 80's. I guess this is AVS as we now use computers for sources.

Many confuse UPS with Battery Backup. True UPS you are running off the battery/inverter at all times. Backup is switched. All the cheap "UPS" in the stores are backup, Switch time, ugly square outputs, not phase synced, and can't take large inrush currents ( like a quartz bulb). Real UPS costs a lot of money.

My rant:
Power lines provide power suitable for motors and 60W A bulbs. If you plug something else in, it had better take that into consideration. If you need an UPS, it should be part of the system as delivered, and not have to be added by the user. This is consumer gear. Plug and play. In IT, we know we have to add the PDU and UPS, but then that is why we hire system engineers to spec it. Consumers should not be asked to be systems engineers. They should be able to plug it is and enjoy.

My campaign is to alert the consumers we are not getting what we should. We should expect more. Demand more. Vote with your wallet.

I often wondered myself why JVC, or all other manufacturers of projectors and TVs using DLP or LCoS technology, couldn't have stuck a user replacable battery such as a 9volt in the TV or projector to run the fan if the power were to suddenly go out.

Being that I live in northern Illinois coupled with the fact that for some reason our power company, ComEd, isn't exactly reliable I have had countless power outages over the last few years. Some for hours on end others mere blips......just enough to make the microwave flash. Either way I'll take the UPS and hopefully keep my $200 bulb happy. :)

Regarding the loss of data on hard drives, does anyone remember this (http://www.informationweek.com/news/storage/disaster_recovery/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=207602714) article?

True. I bought a replacement bulb from some net vendor for $200 and a, dare I say it Monster UPS500 for $70 from a Tweeter when they were going out of business. I could've got a unit from APC for around $40 or $50 I suppose. But hey, the Monster unit has a sh*t load of fancy lights. :D

What's missing is the relationship between replacing the bulb and having the UPS. My experience-based claim is that they are almost completely independent.

You probably replaced the bulb for some reason other than any unscheduled power drops that the UPS would have kept from happening. That makes the money for buying the UPS 100% free gift to Tweeter and Monster.

What's missing is the relationship between replacing the bulb and having the UPS. My experience-based claim is that they are almost completely independent.

You probably replaced the bulb for some reason other than any unscheduled power drops that the UPS would have kept from happening. That makes the money for buying the UPS 100% free gift to Tweeter and Monster.

Maybe so. Not having 2 identical TVs, 1 using a UPS and the other not, having them on for the exact same length of time watching the exact same programming, it would be impossible to tell if in fact the life of the bulb was shortened or the perfornmance dimished on the TV w/out UPS protection. Even then there could be variations due to manufacturing tolerances.

At any rate, when the TV is powered off a fan does continue to run for a minute or 2 by design. When the power is interrupted there is no fan. With a UPS there is. I'm just doing what the manufacturer intended, but as tvrgeek pointed out, they didn't implement properly and in a fail safe manner.

Yes. It shows you should be careful about discarding hard drives. Given they are hermetically sealed, the platters do maintain their magnetic profile under severe conditions.

DOS writes sequentially, while NTFS on WinXP and up write at first opportunity, so NTFS sectors are more fragmented than DOS sectors, so chances of recovering a complete file is lower the larger the file is.

Regarding the loss of data on hard drives, does anyone remember this (http://www.informationweek.com/news/storage/disaster_recovery/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=207602714) article?

Yeah I suppose you wouldn't want the power going out mid "massage". :D

I was given a powered cutter with a nasal hair trimmer. Something tripped the ground fault interrupter, and this trimmer died mid use. Most amazing pain resulted, and constant sneezing and scratching. It also snags and pulls rather than cuts at rare times. I am back to manually doing this task. Lesson: not all powered items are a plus.:o

Not only that, but I understand they're useful for AC powered facial massagers.

I was given a powered cutter with a nasal hair trimmer. Something tripped the ground fault interrupter, and this trimmer died mid use. Most amazing pain resulted, and constant sneezing and scratching. It also snags and pulls rather than cuts at rare times. I am back to manually doing this task. Lesson: not all powered items are a plus.:o


Wow, you must have quite the tangled nest up there to trip a breaker. :eek:

Wow, you must have quite the tangled nest up there to trip a breaker. :eek:

Or a bad trimmer, or a bit of both. Luckily, I've never ever had an issue with a manual trimmer:D