I just had a discussion with a Magnolia manager who said that Pioneer is not leaving the TV business; only plasma TV. He said that Pioneer is doing a joint venture with Sharp and they developed a new TV technology that is already out in Japan and will be available in the States next year. He said it is better than Kuro. I told him that I had never heard of this and asked if it was an April Fools joke. He said it's no joke and that's it's all over internet Pioneer forums.

I probably should have told him to put down the crack pipe before I left shaking my head in disbelief. :rolleyes:

If it's true, then this "new tv technology" likely has something to do with the old lcd technology. If it truly was something new and completely different from existing technologies then there would be a buzz all over the internet.;)

i heard this also through my uncle who works for pioneer.
they said lcd.....

i heard this also through my uncle who works for pioneer.
they said lcd.....

Damn! Don't get me worng, I'de love to see a Pio LCD with KURO level blacks but I just can't ee it happening (at least not in 2010).
-Evangelo2

"He said it's no joke and that's it's all over internet Pioneer forums."


Hi,

There's nothing out there on good ol' google - the only slim possibility is that they maybe Sharp branded products which may use some of Pioneer's tech seeing as Sharp owns a piece of Pioneer and could possibly have come up with a tech sharing agreement - if next years Sharps are then the new kings of LCD, they can (depending on price and model ranges) secure a big chunk of the LCD market with Pioneer getting some royalties. It is feasible that Pioneer branded products may also come out of the Sharp factories seeing as Pioneer will be shutting down their own factories but for Pioneer to be touting LCD as better than their plasmas after declaring to the whole world the superiority of plasma will be difficult to market with any conviction as it will be seen as a major U turn and that might not go down too well!

Bazzy

I think the Magnolia man might have been playing an April fools prank on you.

So, the Pioneer SED is coming to market next year.

I just had a discussion with a Magnolia manager who said that Pioneer is not leaving the TV business; only plasma TV. He said that Pioneer is doing a joint venture with Sharp and they developed a new TV technology that is already out in Japan and will be available in the States next year. He said it is better than Kuro. I told him that I had never heard of this and asked if it was an April Fools joke. He said it's no joke and that's it's all over internet Pioneer forums.

I probably should have told him to put down the crack pipe before I left shaking my head in disbelief. :rolleyes:

I had a thread on the Plasma Forum concerning "Pioneer's Comeback", but it's buried now. One scenario was Pioneer teaming up w/another company for a joint venture. Well, I've been to this rodeo before, and for me to re-kindle my optimistic hopes again, I'd demand more confirmation from various trusted sources.

Well, here's a clue for you and it's no April Fool's joke, either. The newest and hottest front projector on the market is the new 1080p, 120Hz, Panasonic PT-AE3000 with Panasonic's new proprietary frame interpolation engine. The PT-AE3000 analyses multiple source frames and is capable of generating FOUR intermediate frames between each 24fps film source frame, or THREE intermediate frames from 30fps video source. To quote from the review at projectorcentral.com:

"Meanwhile, the AE3000 will analyze either two frames (in Mode 1) or three frames (in Mode 2), and generate three interim frames that are each a quarter step between two real frames. The AE3000's Mode 2 is by far the more powerful of the two modes. It is capable of rendering a picture that is virtually free of judder, without introducing any bothersome artifacts."

I've seen the projector and it's absolutely stunning images. The utter clarity of the interpolated images reaches a level of realism I have not seen so far. There is no comparison to the first and second generation frame interpolation technology in use on the flat panels from Samsung, Sony, Toshiba, LG, Mitsubishi, or even the 72Hz Pioneer Elite plasmas. With finely focussed film or 1080p camcorder source, the resulting images are far from the juddery look of 24fps film.

I'm looking forward to seeing this promising new frame interpolation engine fitted to the new 120Hz and 240Hz LCD flat panels. I believe that Pioneer has correctly assessed the situation that plasma was at the end of the technology curve, whereas LED backlit LCD is at the beginning. The PT-AE3000 has a street price of $2499 today. Read all about it in the AVS front projector forums.

I believe that Pioneer has correctly assessed the situation that plasma was at the end of the technology curve

Wow. No.

They abandoned the plasma business because that division was operating at a massive loss year over year.

Their ECC panel shown at CES a couple years ago represented a large leap in plasma technology that we may now not see for years, if ever.

There's a clue for you.

Actually Pioneer originally announced they would be bringing LCD TVs to market in North America this year in a joint venture with Sharp. I haven't kept up with developments so I'm not sure what the status is now.

Wow. No.

They abandoned the plasma business because that division was operating at a massive loss year over year.

Their ECC panel shown at CES a couple years ago represented a large leap in plasma technology that we may now not see for years, if ever.

There's a clue for you.

There's much more too...Pioneer had developed a 9mm thin plasma display w/10 lumen tech, and a super-duper new video processing engine name "Fuga" that was/is waaay ahead of anything else available now or in the near future. Does that sound like plasma tech being at the end of the developmental & innovative curve??? I don't think so. Gary, are you so hell bent against Pioneer's innovative engineering and product lines that you just simply ignore these facts?

Not at all. I was not familiar with these details but I knew Pioneer had folded the plasma line after announcing they would produce LCDs. Nor is there any reason to believe that the Fuga video processor was not the sophisticated frame interpolation engine I spoke of.

. Nor is there any reason to believe that the Fuga video processor was not the sophisticated frame interpolation engine I spoke of.

Fuga processing was much more than just a frame interpolation concept.

here is some of what fuga was designed for:

"A primary element of 'Fuga' has been designed to counteract the loss of detail due to a lack of smoothness in the incoming video signal. Tatsuya Sugimoto, part of Pioneer’s Display Product Planning Division, stated: "Our new technology has been designed to massively improve the smoothness of lower-quality video. While high-grade images pass through the circuit untouched, low-grade video is significantly enhanced".

Next up fot the 'Fuga' treatment is colour. With the aim of enhancing detail, the technology can isolate and optimize the saturation of individual elements of colour within the current scene.

Designed to eliminate film judder, 'Fuga' employs much more precise algorithms to improve the vector positioning and transition of individual frames.

As if this wasn't enough, Pioneer have also been working on 'Depth of Field' enhancement as part of the 'Fuga' project. Fuga continually analyses on screen action and estimates the perceived depth of all these on screen elements. With a reduction of focus, 'Kuro' judges which elements should be given prominence in the current scene."




Your statement that "Pioneer has correctly assessed the situation that plasma was at the end of the technology curve, whereas LED backlit LCD is at the beginning" is so far off base and ridiculous that its sad to read.

One of the main reasons many people were sad to hear that pioneer was forced to stop producing plasmas is BECAUSE they were making so many advancements with plasma. They saw plasma as a technology with huge potential.

If the EEC concept and Fuga would have came to market, lets just say it would be at near OLED level (but a better half life thats for sure).

But of course, Pioneer was forced to stop making plasmas by the gimmicky salespeople and buyers who believed that torch mode and soap operas were the way to go. Maybe Panasonic will get some of the fuga and EEC tech, I hope someone does.

You know, there are an endless number of apologists here making an endless number of excuses for the failure of Pioneer's plasma line. Pioneer misjudged the market and Pioneer spent too much on R&D and not enough on Marketing, and now they are gone from the plasma business.

I don't doubt that but Fuga will be impressive and that the Pioneer LCDs will be impressive because of it. But even if you are correct about the potential for further advances in plasma technology (and I remain unconvinced) you should understand that Pioneer could still lose again with their LCDs if they spend too much on technology and not enough on selling products. I work at a corporation that has impressive technology on the shelf that nobody is much interested in buying. I understand this too well.

I believe the best LCDs now outperform the best available plasmas. Whether they outperfom Pioneer plasmas or not only matters for the short period remaining before the Pioneer plasmas dissappear entirely from the market. The production lines are gone already, Pioneer plasmas are almost a footnote in the history of video technology. But technological competance means nothing if not accompanied by marketing competance, as has always been true.

Ah yes! The guy who planted the false thread headline claiming that California was going to "ban plasma TVs", is still working his "I believe" faith based anti plasma crusade.

Reality Check:

http://displaydaily.com/2008/11/17/off-axis-color-performance-%E2%80%9Csurprisingly-poor%E2%80%9D-in-top-lcd-displays/



"Off-axis Color Performance Surprisingly Poor in Top LCD Displays (http://displaydaily.com/2008/11/17/off-axis-color-performance-surprisingly-poor-in-top-lcd-displays/)

November 17th, 2008 Note: We asked Aldo to take a fresh look at the results described in this
report by DisplayMate and Insight Media, and to provide his editorial
commentary on the significance.
While it comes as no surprise that LCD displays exhibit noticeable shifts in brightness, contrast, and color performance when viewed off axis, a new report reveals unexpectedly poor results for even "flagship" LCD display models. According to a recently released report jointly produced by DisplayMate Technologies and Insight Media, the level of off-axis color inaccuracy–and its worsening with wide color gamut displays–was a surprise even to experts that observed the test results.

Aldo Cugnini
Insight Media Consultant

The technical analysis was performed by Dr. Raymond Soneira, President of DisplayMate Technologies. In an interview this weekend with Dr. Soneira, he said that, "The chromaticity shift with angle is objectionable even at ±10 degrees for all of the tested LCDs. Everyone that came to see the shoot–out-including industry experts, manufacturers, engineers, reviewers, journalists and ISF instructors–were shocked at how strong the effect is. Everyone knew there was an effect, but the side-by-side comparison shows how incredibly large it actually is. Even when viewers are seated close together side-by-side, each person will see a different picture with noticeably different coloration on an LCD."


Eight HDTV LCD displays were used in the study, representing five major CE manufacturers (additional plasma monitors were used as references). Also, three of the LCD displays were rated as "flagship" top-of-the line sets. Nonetheless, all the LCDs showed large viewing-angle artifacts, according to the report, with noticeably different coloration in both hue and saturation, as well as variations in contrast and black level. With pure saturated colors, all of the LCDs produced a noticeable color shift at 15 degrees, whereas the performance of the plasma displays was visually indistinguishable from face-on viewing to well beyond 45 degrees.

(http://www.displaydaily.com/ccount/click.php?id=118)
Most manufacturers publish 176-degree (total) viewing-angle specifications for their units, but these have "absolutely no bearing" on the true acceptable viewing angles, according to the study. What is not appreciated by most consumers is that the angular spec is based on where the contrast ratio falls to a level of 10, hardly an acceptable figure. More realistically, an angle of ±45 degrees may reproduce an acceptable contrast ratio, but only with very bright and saturated colors. Pictures that include a wide range of intensities, hues and saturations will appear "significantly degraded" at much smaller viewing angles, according to the report. Dr. Soneira also found that LCDs with extended color gamuts show additional and much stronger viewing angle artifacts than LCDs with a standard HDTV color gamut, due to the use of color mixtures in the extended gamut primary colors.
Because the results vary with product, it would be interesting to see this kind of testing on a much greater sample size, as well as the correlation with panel technology. An S-IPS panel tested didn’t show a color shift with angle, said Dr. Soneira, but it exhibited a very large increase in black level, which significantly reduces both contrast and color saturation, particularly for dim or dark picture content.
The study implies a number of improvements to the way displays are rated and evaluated. For one, a rating of chromaticity shift with viewing angle would greatly assist in product comparisons, as would a better way to convey the acceptable viewing angle for contrast-ratio performance. Perhaps manufacturers (and reviewers) should publish the contrast ratio at ±45 degrees, or else the angle at which the contrast ratio falls to one-half (or even one-tenth) of the peak on-axis value. Manufacturers would also do well to use these kinds of measurements to improve the performance of their displays, and compete better with plasma on performance, not just price."


For more on the report:
http://www.insightmedia.info/reports/2008lcdbenchmarkdetails.php

Pioneer misjudged the market and Pioneer spent too much on R&D and not enough on Marketing, and now they are gone from the plasma business.

That is mostly true, but that has nothing to do with plasma's viability as a display technology nor whether or not there is still room for advancement.

There were a lot great things in the pipeline for plasma, and Pioneer was the spearhead. What happens now, given their impending absense, will no doubt delay if not outright demolish our chances of seeing those advancements. And that's something everyone here should be worried about, whether you drool over plasma, LCD, SED or whatever. Competition breeds progress and provides an advantage to us consumers.

Why is this even a topic? Pioneer, its over, lets move on.

Why is this even a topic? Pioneer, its over, lets move on.

Like I stated before audi, there's likely a better chance Pioneer re-enters the TV market before SED does. :D

So what's the word on your Kuro? Did you send it back or still have it? and how about some pictures. :)

Like I stated before audi, there's likely a better chance Pioneer re-enters the TV market before SED does. :D

So what's the word on your Kuro? Did you send it back or still have it? and how about some pictures. :)

Why do you think that?

Why do you think that?

Let's just call it a "gut" feeling.

Now the answers to my other questions?

Let's just call it a "gut" feeling.

Now the answers to my other questions?

I still have my Kuro. Due to the economic downturn and being among the growing ranks of the unemlpoyed, I decided to keep my set and not return it to spend more money on something else. In this bad economy, constantly flipping tvs to keep up with the joneses is a bad idea and waste of money.

So I kept my Kuro, I probably get calibrated in the future and then hold out until the vastly superior display technologies hit the scene.

I still have my Kuro. Due to the economic downturn and being among the growing ranks of the unemlpoyed, I decided to keep my set and not return it to spend more money on something else. In this bad economy, constantly flipping tvs to keep up with the joneses is a bad idea and waste of money.

So I kept my Kuro, I probably get calibrated in the future and then hold out until the vastly superior display technologies hit the scene.

Just curious are you married or single?and what type of setup do you have both your TV's in (dedicated room, family room, living room, bedroom etc)? Is the Samsung the 52"?

Just curious are you married or single?and what type of setup do you have both your TV's in (dedicated room, family room, living room, bedroom etc)? Is the Samsung the 52"?

My status is single

My Kuro is in my family room and my Samsung is a 40 inch is in my bedroom/office/library.

I decided to keep my set and not return it to spend more money on something else. In this bad economy, constantly flipping tvs to keep up with the joneses is a bad idea and waste of money.


Good idea. LED LCD is much better but will double your bill.:)

Don't know what you payed but my Sam's just dropped the 8g's again and now there about the cost of my 52a550 LCD. But I would still buy a Sammie LCD.

And keeping up with the jones isn't always the way to go but here on the AVS it works.

Good idea. LED LCD is much better but will double your bill.:)

Don't know what you payed but my Sam's just dropped the 8g's again and now there about the cost of my 52a550 LCD. But I would still buy a Sammie LCD.

And keeping up with the jones isn't always the way to go but here on the AVS it sells.

and what Sam's is this at? and you're talking 5010 right? about what price range we talking?

LED LCD is much better but will double your bill.

No, it's not.

Good idea. LED LCD is much better but will double your bill.:)

Don't know what you payed but my Sam's just dropped the 8g's again and now there about the cost of my 52a550 LCD. But I would still buy a Sammie LCD.

And keeping up with the jones isn't always the way to go but here on the AVS it works.

I was almost tempted to get the 55 ultra thin "show stopper" LCD, but it would have cost me 1k more.

I was almost tempted to get the 55 ultra thin "show stopper" LCD, but it would have cost me 1k more.

"almost tempted". So you were not even tempted! "show stopper". Such an image lag, that it actually stopped what it was showing! No wonder you were not really tempted.:)

This is hilarious. Really.

No its not...

Reply: Yes it is...

Reply: No its not...

Reply: Yes it is...

Reply: No its not, but in the future, it may be...

Reply: Yes it is, and it always has been...and in the future it will go away...

Reply: No its not, but if it does, it can not go away...

Reply: Yes it can, but only they can decide...

Reply: No it cant, and if it could, anyone could decide...

Reply: Wait until the next generation, then you will know that it can...

Reply: Why would I wait until the next generation if it might not get here and would still prove that it cant?

Reply: Even if it cant, it still can. And it never, ever will match those that do.

I was almost tempted to get the 55 ultra thin "show stopper" LCD, but it would have cost me 1k more.
For just 1k more you get 5" I would have thought much more.

I think you should put more thought into it.

You don't always get a chance for a show stopper.

wow

You don't always get a chance for a show stopper.

60" Elite would have been the ultimate show stopper and it's even 5" more :)

But it doesn't draw the huge crowds at Best Buy!

That is, of course, the ultimate measure of a TV.

For just 1k more you get 5" I would have thought much more.

I think you should put more thought into it.

You don't always get a chance for a show stopper.

This coming from someone who advocates not spending any money at all! Now you are saying that it's "just 1k"?

It is posts like these that prove just what your intentions are, have been, and always will be... to get under peoples skin.

60" elite would have been the ultimate show stopper and it's even 5" more :)


+1

But it doesn't draw the huge crowds at Best Buy!

That is, of course, the ultimate measure of a TV.

True. And that's because, like or not, Plasma is now seen as your "Granddaddy's tv technology. The market has spoken.

You should accept it and stop fighting reality. I think that would cut down on a lot of the plasma v. LCD bickering.

There isn't any new Pioneer tech coming in 2010, folks need to get that out of their heads. Pioneer had their shot with the Kuro and do to greed and market factors, it didn't go to well.

For just 1k more you get 5" I would have thought much more.

I think you should put more thought into it.

You don't always get a chance for a show stopper.

You're right, but I just keeping thinking about the possibility of being out work for longer than I expect and really would needing that 1k for bills.

60" Elite would have been the ultimate show stopper and it's even 5" more :)

Just like purchasing a gas guzzling SUV in an economic and a gas crisis, this not the time to purchase a big, heavy, overpriced, energy sucking plasma TV.

You should accept and stop fighting reality. I think that would cut down on a lot of the plasma v. LCD bickering.


The nonsense is strong with you.

Accept reality? And what reality is that? The one where LCD is outselling plasma? Wow, really? I hadn't noticed!

Newsflash: I don't give a rip what the market trends look like. They affect my enjoyment of my TV not one iota. My only concern is competition going forward. If the market drives out the top quality displays it will only slow the advancement of those that remain.

And I suppose I should accept the fact that Hannah Montana is tearing up the music charts, therefore calling my personal taste in music into question, as I don't like her at all. But, hey, the masses have spoken. Hannah Montana is the best, she wins, and everyone should accept it. Have you bought your tickets to the new movie yet? Don't fight the masses, man! Join them!

Just like purchasing a gas guzzling SUV in an economic and a gas crisis, this not the time to purchase a big, heavy, overpriced, energy sucking plasma TV.

Or like a recently unemployed person buying a new TV for around $2000.00. Some people just make some poor choices in life. :rolleyes:

My only concern is competition going forward

I share that concern and Plasma, in my opinion, represents a hinderance to a new era of vastly superior display technologies being introduced to the market. I believe one day you're going to wake up and realize it. If we ever get OLED's, FED's or SED's, you're going to say, that guy Auditor was right, he knew it all along.:)

Or like a recently unemployed person buying a new TV for around $2000.00. Some people just make some poor choices in life. :rolleyes:

I had already budgeted 2k before the layoff. However, you're right, I sometimes feel I will live to regret it.

Anyway, I really think this thread is purposefully misleading. Pioneer as a company is basically on life support, why would they try to introduce a new technology when they couldn't make the Kuro work.

Did the imaginary plasma get sent back to the store yet? I have been busy counting to a million lately, and lost track of the kuro saga.

If we ever get OLED's, FED's or SED's, you're going to say, that guy Auditor was right, he knew it all along.

And plasma is blocking the way for these new technologies how? And why isn't LCD guilty of the same?

And plasma is blocking the way for these new technologies how? And why isn't LCD guilty of the same?

I'll tell you how.

By use of of propaganda. Pioneer was first, they did it with the introduction of the Kuro. As good as the Kuro is (for a plasma) it was the first shot across the bow against the introduction of new technology. It kind of lulled videophiles to sleep, it pacified them so much they forget about the quest for uncompromised display quality.

At one time, Pioneer even attempted to market the Kuro as "new" technology, but it wasn't all, it was propaganda and deceptive marketing.

They went as far as to call the Kuro the "SED" while at the sametime trying advance the Kuro to a state where are 3 year old SED demo was already reached.

As for have LCD, I have yet to read or hear about an LCD manufacturer calling their display a future technology killer.

I'll tell you how.

By use of of propaganda. Pioneer was first, they did it with the introduction of the Kuro. As good as the Kuro is (for a plasma) it was the first shot across the bow against the introduction of new technology. It kind of lulled videophiles to sleep, it pacified them so much they forget about the quest for uncompromised display quality.

At one time, Pioneer even attempted to market the Kuro as "new" technology, but it wasn't all, it was propaganda and deceptive marketing.

They went as far as to call the Kuro the "SED" while at the sametime trying advance the Kuro to a state where are 3 year old SED demo was already reached.

As for have LCD, I have yet to read or hear about an LCD manufacturer calling their display a future technology killer.It must hurt to realize that the KURO was the first pixel based flat panel on the market to use cathodoluminescence. With your love of SED you should be praising it as a first step to the CRT flat panel you think is next coming of Christ :)

I'll tell you how.

By use of of propaganda. Pioneer was first, they did it with the introduction of the Kuro. As good as the Kuro is (for a plasma) it was the first shot across the bow against the introduction of new technology. It kind of lulled videophiles to sleep, it pacified them so much they forget about the quest for uncompromised display quality.

At one time, Pioneer even attempted to market the Kuro as "new" technology, but it wasn't all, it was propaganda and deceptive marketing.

They went as far as to call the Kuro the "SED" while at the sametime trying advance the Kuro to a state where are 3 year old SED demo was already reached.

As for have LCD, I have yet to read or hear about an LCD manufacturer calling their display a future technology killer.

The fact that you think SED would offer "uncompromised" display quality is laughable at best.

The rest of that crackpot theorizing is simply too silly to even respond to.

Like it or not, Pioneer plasma is over. I'm still enjoying mine but the reality is that Pioneers display days are over. If they make a comeback later then we can talk about it until then. In the mean time the LCD vs. Plasma debates really serve no purpose. Or better stated it's now Panasonic vs. LCD. I'd be surprised if plasma makes it much longer than a couple of years. Just my 2 cents.

I'll tell you how.

By use of of propaganda. Pioneer was first, they did it with the introduction of the Kuro. As good as the Kuro is (for a plasma) it was the first shot across the bow against the introduction of new technology. It kind of lulled videophiles to sleep, it pacified them so much they forget about the quest for uncompromised display quality.

At one time, Pioneer even attempted to market the Kuro as "new" technology, but it wasn't all, it was propaganda and deceptive marketing.

They went as far as to call the Kuro the "SED" while at the sametime trying advance the Kuro to a state where are 3 year old SED demo was already reached.

As for have LCD, I have yet to read or hear about an LCD manufacturer calling their display a future technology killer.

Do you seriously believe your crap? OLED, SED, FED etc were never ready to come to market and compete and we should be thankful that Pioneer raised the bar to make a quality set available and also to encourage others to follow and compete whether it be other plasma makers or LCD manufacturers. Your blind love for a set that never existed is strange indeed. :rolleyes:

"And Lardass just sat back and enjoyed what he'd created-a complete and total barf-o-rama"

I love that movie and get reminded of that scene constantly by a few posters Modus operandi here :)

Like it or not, Pioneer plasma is over. I'm still enjoying mine but the reality is that Pioneers display days are over. If they make a comeback later then we can talk about it until then. In the mean time the LCD vs. Plasma debates really serve no purpose. Or better stated it's now Panasonic vs. LCD. I'd be surprised if plasma makes it much longer than a couple of years. Just my 2 cents.

Not quite dead yet. Still selling them in stores, and still the very best display on the market today, right now this minute in 2009. It's all great speculation as to what Pioneer plans to do w/all that cutting-edge innovative video tech sitting on the shelf. No word, not a peep...has me suspicious that something is brewing behind corporate closed doors. We're bailing out GM & Chrysler, and it's not a stretch to imaging Japan bailing out Pioneer...actually, it's easier to imagine because Japan backs its homeland companies in many ways the US has not had a history.

The fact that you think SED would offer "uncompromised" display quality is laughable at best.

The rest of that crackpot theorizing is simply too silly to even respond to.

Personally, I can't understand why you think uncompromised PQ is not achievable with SED and other new technologies, since you believe that you have already achieved it with the Kuro.

So basically your thinking, without saying it, is that any new technology is step backwards from the Kuro.

It must hurt to realize that the KURO was the first pixel based flat panel on the market to use cathodoluminescence. With your love of SED you should be praising it as a first step to the CRT flat panel you think is next coming of Christ :)

Yeah the Kuro made step forwards, no doubt. But should we be content with the progress that Pioneer made or should we pursue further advancements in display technology?

Yeah the Kuro made step forwards, no doubt. But should we be content with the progress that Pioneer made or should we pursue further advancements in display technology?That is better. I don't see anyone arguing with that :)

Personally, I can't understand why you think uncompromised PQ is not achievable with SED and other new technologies

Odd coming from you since SED shares (well, *would* share) some of the "weaker" traits of plasma, like burn-in potential, dithering, more power draw than LCD, ABLs, less peak brightness potential than LCD, etc. You've complained extensively about at least a few of those, yet with an SED they're no big deal?

since you believe that you have already achieved it with the Kuro.


Learn to read.

Then, point me to where I've said that I've acheived uncompromised picture quality with the Kuro.

So basically your thinking, without saying it, is that any new technology is step backwards from the Kuro.

Learn to read.

I heartily welcome advancements and there's still plenty of room for improvement. But your assertion that plasmas are holding back display technology advancements is absolutely ridiculous and without basis in logic, reason or fact.

Odd coming from you since SED shares (well, *would* share) some of the "weaker" traits of plasma, like burn-in potential, dithering, more power draw than LCD, ABLs, less peak brightness potential than LCD, etc. You've complained extensively about at least a few of those, yet with an SED they're no big deal?





Learn to read.

Then, point me to where I've said that I've acheived uncompromised picture quality with the Kuro.


Learn to read.

I heartily welcome advancements and there's still plenty of room for improvement. But your assertion that plasmas are holding back display technology advancements is absolutely ridiculous and without basis in logic, reason or fact.

SED does not share the pitfalls of plasma, who told you that?

Please stop reading the misformation that's being spread on the AVS forum about SED, its not true. More than likely its coming from the opponents of the advancement of display technology.

There are those who are on the quest, we're not happy with the Kuro because we know it can be better.

You either with us or against us.

Dr. Raymond Soneira.. Ph.D. foremost display technology expert on the subject of SED and its advantages of plasma. Now read carefully and if you disagree please state why.



"Potentially the most interesting is the Canon-Toshiba Surface-conduction Electron-emitter Display, SED, which is a very thin (under 1 centimeter) CRT-like phosphor-based display technology. It has digitally addressed pixels, however, the brightness of each pixel is produced through an analog process, so it should be free of the digital artifacts present in plasma and DLP displays, which have digital on-off intensity controls produced with pulse width modulation (see Part III). In this regard SED is very similar to LCoS. As an emissive technology, SED already produces CRT-like black levels, with contrast ratios in the 10,000 to 100,000 range (much better than plasma because it doesn't need to maintain a background level for priming the discharge). The response time is speced at 1ms, which is very fast."

SED does not share the pitfalls of plasma, who told you that?

Actual research on the technology. Do you dispute any of the weaknesses that I stated? You don't think that SED can burn-in, that its power requirements are far closer to plasma than LCD, that LCD will outshine it in a bright room, etc etc etc?

Please stop reading the misformation that's being spread on the AVS forum about SED, its not true.

Then dispute it by offering "correct" information.

There are those who are on the quest, we're not happy with the Kuro because we know it can be better.

So happiness cannot be achieved provided that improvement opportunities exist? You must not be happy very often.

much better than plasma

Several years ago, when that article was written, that was true. Current Pioneer panels and their ECC concept especially have already rendered that quote entirely obsolete. Try again.

Actual research on the product. Do you dispute any of the weaknesses that I stated? You don't think that SED can burn-in, that it utilizes an ABL, that its power requirements are far closer to plasma than LCD, that LCD will outshine it in a bright room, etc etc etc?



Then dispute it by offering "correct" information.



So happiness cannot be achieved provided that improvement opportunities exist? You must not be happy very often.



Several years ago, when that article was written, that was true. Current Pioneer panels and their ECC concept especially has already rendered that quote entirely obsolete. Try again.

This post is evidence of opposition to new technology as it shows an your undying loyalty to Pioneer.

"SED-TV is also so precise, that an object moving at high speed can still offer crisp clear letters! On any other TV, a blur would utter this impossible, but not with the SED-TV display."

The above is a fact, it was demonstrated by Canon.

The non existent Pioneer ECC concept was good, but still not in the same league as SED. As long as the display is a PDP, that in itself makes it inferior to SED technology, the shortcomings were addressed by Dr Soniera in the foregoing post.

Again, please stop reading the misinformation about SED technology.

As for burn in, you folks claim its no longer a problem for PDP.

Just as reminder, we're talking about 4-5 year old SED prototypes here, that nothing have surpassed.

Oh btw, pioneer demonstrated a 9mm thick plasma, well SED can be produced at half that size.

If Pioneer does come with a new technology, IT SHOULD BE SED. Producing SED displays would return Pioneer back into a glorious position in the display technology world. They would dominate for a long time.

This post is evidence of opposition to new technology as it shows an your undying loyalty to Pioneer.

Third time's a charm?

Learn to read, or I'm definitely done responding to you.

I have never claimed that SED wouldn't offer advantages over current technologies.

But your touting of it as an uncompromised nirvana of video is fanboyish nonsense, as it would share several weaknesses of plasma that you yourself complain about frequently. Is there an echo in here?

Audie, take a good look around, how many folks do you see holding a heart throb for good ole SED. Sorry the AA group therapy boys got your favorite thread closed down...shows you just what those so-called "good intentions" can do. I can dream too, and SED + Pioneer does sound like a cool idea, and I've already submitted a scenario whereby Pioneer could team up w/Canon who by the way has been more than anxious to get into the display market. In my mind, it's a good match. Helluva lot better than Canon's last team mate "Toshiba" that quickly ran for the hills when the first shot was fired during that SED patent fiasco several years ago. I do think something is going to happen in w/Pioneer in the next 8-12 months, and some may be shocked on this Forum when it happens. When you currently sell the best damn display on the planet, and have two race horses in the barn ready or near ready to go that would blow all other displays out of the water, I think people should think twice before writing that final tombstone for Pioneer.