Ok so I am the one who started the Audio cutting out of the new panny 50s1 plasmas. Returned one and new one has the same problem. So now I am looking at the 50g10 or 52A650. I under stand that one is LCD and one is Plasma, but i am getting annoyed with Panny and the effert Plasma takes to mantain, burn in, IR, Pixels going. So which do you think i should go with. I watch alot of movies/blu-ray and play both XBOX and PS3 and some wii. I also am a huge visual guy and need the images to pop. I like the picture on my s1 but I am loosing faith in Panny. Any advise

if you're annoyed with IR and afraid of it, go for the Samsung LCD.

if you can put up with it and want a better picture, go Panny Plasma.


It's as simple as that. I think you have already answered your own question though, and are leaning towards the LCD. If you had two bad experiences with the new Panny Plasmas, why would you UPGRADE and pay MORE for another model of the same brand? Doesn't make sense to me.

I am officially a plasma person now (my TV is being delivered on Wednesday), but you sound like you might be better off with an LCD.

I'd go with the 52A650. I had one for about a year. Replaced it a month ago with a 111FD. I just returned the 111FD and picked up the new Samsung 55B7100.

an LNa650 wouldn't even come close to a G10........plus with the LCD you get motion blur,flashlighting issues,terrible off axis viewing and as a bonus Samsungs famous horrible customer service
Read the latest Cnet review of the Panasonic G10,its compared favorably to the Pioneer Elite and beats the Sony XBR8 in most every catagory,so do you really think a 650 can compete?

Jeff, IMHO you are wrong about your comparison of the G10 and the LNa650. I own both a plasma and lcd, so I am not a "fan boy" of either and I totally understand the overall quality difference of plasma over lcd, but I had the G10 for about 4 days before it had to go back to the store.

I own a Pioneer KURO, so maybe that's why I just didn't appreciate the G10 IQ, but, in my opinion, it is a very weak effort by Panasonic. After my overall disappointment, I exchanged the Panny for a Samsung 6 series lcd and, I don't care what any numbers say, black levels, computer calibrators, or whatever...to the human eye, the 6 series is not a little better than the G10, it is a lot better.

In comparing the G10 to the last generation of panny plasmas, all I can say is it is a total disappointment. It's not just me, I have a few friends who have said the same thing and in talking to several of the home theater dealers in town, they are put off by the new panny's as well.

Ultimately, I'm a plasma guy, but when it comes to these two models, the Sammy wins easily. Anyone who tells you different is just saying that because they think they have to say that just because it is a plasma. Bottom line, plasma, IMHO, is clearly better technology, but concerning these two models, Panasonic falls short.

both professional reviews I've read seems to disagree.............they both gave excellent scores to the Panny
I too own LCD and plasma AND a JVC Lcos set and IMHO the Panasonic plasma is the best picture of them all.............I tried to like Samsung LCD but in the end I couldn't live with motion blur,flashlighing issues and bad off axis viewing
I started with a 85U panasonic went to a 850U and now own a G10 and I can tell you for sure the G10 is far superior in almost every way(the sound of the 850U being the exception)
just the fact that you recommend lcd over plasma and think the black levels are better tells me a little something

Professional reviews are mostly payed for, I'd say it's a tossup between the two because like people have said this years Panasonics are a very poor effort with little changed. They might be good TVs but they are barely a "new" model. I'd get a b550 or b650 instead depending on finances. hdtvtest.co.uk has a good review on the 650 and it looks like a nice LCD. Personally I might be picking up a new 40" b550 for my new place since I have a couple extra rooms to fill anyways (game roooom!). Will wait on reviews since the 650 (for now) is too expensive for what I want it for.

both professional reviews I've read seems to disagree.............they both gave excellent scores to the Panny
I too own LCD and plasma AND a JVC Lcos set and IMHO the Panasonic plasma is the best picture of them all.............I tried to like Samsung LCD but in the end I couldn't live with motion blur,flashlighing issues and bad off axis viewing
I started with a 85U panasonic went to a 850U and now own a G10 and I can tell you for sure the G10 is far superior in almost every way(the sound of the 850U being the exception)
just the fact that you recommend lcd over plasma and think the black levels are better tells me a little something

They are practically all the same freakin TV! Same black levels.. no brighter and worse color than last year! How could you trade an 850 for a G1O?? Talk about cash to spare, you coulda picked up one Kuro elite instead and been much happier.

both professional reviews I've read seems to disagree.............they both gave excellent scores to the Panny
I too own LCD and plasma AND a JVC Lcos set and IMHO the Panasonic plasma is the best picture of them all.............I tried to like Samsung LCD but in the end I couldn't live with motion blur,flashlighing issues and bad off axis viewing
I started with a 85U panasonic went to a 850U and now own a G10 and I can tell you for sure the G10 is far superior in almost every way(the sound of the 850U being the exception)
just the fact that you recommend lcd over plasma and think the black levels are better tells me a little something

Jeff,

You obviously didn't read what I wrote. I said that I understand that plasmas have deeper blacks and I get it that they are technically superior to LCD. What I also said was that, in real world viewing, I don't care what the numbers say, but to me, the Samsung looks better. My Samsung LCD does not look better than my KURO (although it's closer than most would be willing to admit).

I'm glad that you love your G10...heck, it's your tv, not mine, but for me the g10 was a dissapointment. The great news is this, I'm happy with my Samsung in the family room and my KURO in my theater room...you are happy with your g10 and the rest of your setup...choices; that's what it's all about. It's just that this is a discussion forum and when you say the lna650 can't touch a g10, that is purely a subjective opinion (as is my opinion as well) and all I'm saying is that the only way that can be decided is by each individual himself.

Professional reviews are mostly payed for, I'd say it's a tossup between the two because like people have said this years Panasonics are a very poor effort with little changed. They might be good TVs but they are barely a "new" model. I'd get a b550 or b650 instead depending on finances. hdtvtest.co.uk has a good review on the 650 and it looks like a nice LCD. Personally I might be picking up a new 40" b550 for my new place since I have a couple extra rooms to fill anyways (game roooom!). Will wait on reviews since the 650 (for now) is too expensive for what I want it for.

Could you explain what benefit CNET or any other site, magazine etc. gets for stating one set is better than the other? What's interesting in your opening paragraph you seem to be discounting the reviewers and then in the last sentence you say you're waiting for the reviews before making a decision. Did I miss something?

hmmm yet another GLOWING review of the new Panasonic

http://hdguru.com/panasonic-tcp50g10-50-plasma-review/416/

Professional reviews are mostly payed for, I'd say it's a tossup between the two because like people have said this years Panasonics are a very poor effort with little changed. They might be good TVs but they are barely a "new" model. I'd get a b550 or b650 instead depending on finances. hdtvtest.co.uk has a good review on the 650 and it looks like a nice LCD. Personally I might be picking up a new 40" b550 for my new place since I have a couple extra rooms to fill anyways (game roooom!). Will wait on reviews since the 650 (for now) is too expensive for what I want it for.

very poor effort with little changes?
you are kidding right?
its a completely NEW model that destroys the old ones in contrast,brightness.color saturation,and even power consumption

so HDTVTEST.CO.UK gave the 650 a good review..........I thought you just said that professional reviews are paid for?

They are practically all the same freakin TV! Same black levels.. no brighter and worse color than last year! How could you trade an 850 for a G1O?? Talk about cash to spare, you coulda picked up one Kuro elite instead and been much happier.
same freakin tv?.......NOT EVEN CLOSE
much better black levels,much brighter(in fact the brightest plasma tv ever made)and primary colors are near perfect on the G10 much better than the 850U Its clear you have never compared the two side by side
the 850U is an outstanding television but not up to par with the new NEO PDP sets

same freakin tv?.......NOT EVEN CLOSE
much better black levels,much brighter(in fact the brightest plasma tv ever made)and primary colors are near perfect on the G10 much better than the 850U Its clear you have never compared the two side by side
the 850U is an outstanding television but not up to par with the new NEO PDP sets


Gotta agree with you.
I almost hit the floor when I read some of the measurements of the G10.
I had no idea it could do up to 91fl.
not that I would ever go anywhere near that or need to, but it sure is nice to know that Plasma is now capable of being retina burning bright now as well.
Maybe it will help sell them better to the torch mode LCD crowd.

same freakin tv?.......NOT EVEN CLOSE
much better black levels,much brighter(in fact the brightest plasma tv ever made)and primary colors are near perfect on the G10 much better than the 850U Its clear you have never compared the two side by side
the 850U is an outstanding television but not up to par with the new NEO PDP sets
I have to agree. I just got the 50g10 after allot of searching for the right TV. I was sold on the Samsung 7100 until I saw the G10. I believe the 7100 series is very comparable to the G10, but I still think the plasma has better, more natural colors. Compared to the 650, with my eyes, the g10 was way better (I just could not deal motion blur on the 650 compared to the plasma).
Thats what it comes down to in the end, get what you like...
As far as reviews go, I agree, some reviewers can't be trusted, but when pretty much every review out for the G10 is singing its praises, its hard to write them all off.

... and don't worry about IR, it is no longer a problem, I don't have to qualify the statement, there are a million threads about it already. Just do a search. :)

Whatever you get, enjoy it

Gotta agree with you.
I almost hit the floor when I read some of the measurements of the G10.
I had no idea it could do up to 91fl.
not that I would ever go anywhere near that or need to, but it sure is nice to know that Plasma is now capable of being retina burning bright now as well.
Maybe it will help sell them better to the torch mode LCD crowd.

ABL ABL.. plasmas can do 200fl and still be dim. 91fl with a 15% white window.. how much at 100%? 15? 20? :rolleyes: This should have been the year they did away with it or improved it, instead they shaved off a few watts and gave a boosted custom mode that uses as much power as old models did! *YAWN*! Call me when real improvements are made and I'll stick with my Kuro until then and use LCDs on the side.

very poor effort with little changes?
you are kidding right?
its a completely NEW model that destroys the old ones in contrast,brightness.color saturation,and even power consumption

so HDTVTEST.CO.UK gave the 650 a good review..........I thought you just said that professional reviews are paid for?

I researched those TVs, custom mode with innacurate primaries boosted to 70fl+ isn't an improvement. The THX mode is what counts and the contrast of THX mode this year and last year is the SAME THING. Power consumption isn't even up to par with LCDs yet and plasmas still can't be used for mutlimedia computer purposes because of their bloody ABL. Black level is the SAME.

If you actually read the G10 thread you'll see I was interested until Chad B did a real review and gave the straight facts/numbers. They are NOTHING special and barely an improvement. If you spent your hard earned cash on it and are happy great, just don't try to BS people with it "looks like this" or "looks like that". The numbers don't lie! ~3500:1 in THX mode is no improvement!

Could you explain what benefit CNET or any other site, magazine etc. gets for stating one set is better than the other? What's interesting in your opening paragraph you seem to be discounting the reviewers and then in the last sentence you say you're waiting for the reviews before making a decision. Did I miss something?

People on the forums have already stated that David gave them a nice "warm" review because that's what Panasonic wanted. Reviews aside maxdog why don't you care to enlighten me on how a g10 is better than say an 800U without bringing up custom mode?

People on the forums have already stated that David gave them a nice "warm" review because that's what Panasonic wanted.
Just so we're straight here - You are accusing the reviewer at one of the most popular consumer electronic sites of giving reviews based on what one particular manufacturer "wants"? And you're basing this accusation on "people on the forums"? Are you for real? Please provide some actual evidence, without it you are dealing in baseless accusations that taint every argument you're trying to make.

I suppose Sony wanted them to give a great review to the XBR8 (http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/sony-bravia-kdl-55xbr8/4505-6482_7-33060615.html)and a tepid review to their new edge lit LED model (http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/sony-bravia-klv-40zx1m/4505-6482_7-33248636.html?tag=mncol;lst)?

Best to stick with actual arguments (some of which you've made pretty well) and leave the conspiracy theories out.

I also suppose that Samsung's purchase of advertising on their site (see the "Sponsored: See all Samsung TVs, the Official HDTV of the NFL..." link right in the middle of the main TV page) leads David to give Panasonics good reviews?

jeff

well I don't want to get into a pissin match over the internet
I'm just saying that from my observations this tv is a giant step foward in plasma tech........NOTHING matches the brightness,whites or shadow detail as far as I'm concerned
not even your precious Pio Elite..........SORRY

well I don't want to get into a pissin match over the internet
I'm just saying that from my observations this tv is a giant step foward in plasma tech........NOTHING matches the brightness,whites or shadow detail as far as I'm concerned
not even your precious Pio Elite..........SORRY

brightnesswise, i agree.
But shadow detail, no.
The only way to get better shadow detail than an elite kuro is to sacrifice accuracy and deviate from the standard. It may look like better shadow detail to some, but thats just an exaggeration that is far from accurate.

.NOTHING matches the brightness,whites or shadow detail as far as I'm concerned

except an LCD? Panasonic 12 g ain't even as good as Pioneer 8G. Panasonics are GOOD tvs but they are not the LEAP forward you guys are ranting on about. I find it funny all the Pioneer dudes defend them because they're all that's left! Last year they got off by calling them junk and now they are great. What a joke.

Just so we're straight here - You are accusing the reviewer at one of the most popular consumer electronic sites of giving reviews based on what one particular manufacturer "wants"? And you're basing this accusation on "people on the forums"? Are you for real? Please provide some actual evidence, without it you are dealing in baseless accusations that taint every argument you're trying to make.

I suppose Sony wanted them to give a great review to the XBR8 (http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/sony-bravia-kdl-55xbr8/4505-6482_7-33060615.html)and a tepid review to their new edge lit LED model (http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/sony-bravia-klv-40zx1m/4505-6482_7-33248636.html?tag=mncol;lst)?

Best to stick with actual arguments (some of which you've made pretty well) and leave the conspiracy theories out.

I also suppose that Samsung's purchase of advertising on their site (see the "Sponsored: See all Samsung TVs, the Official HDTV of the NFL..." link right in the middle of the main TV page) leads David to give Panasonics good reviews?

jeff

Ok I'll admit it's baseless forum information but I'm still waiting for any rebuttal anyone has to offer on how these TVs have improved. For some reason no one seems to have an answer. I HATE it when people talk out of their rear about TVs and then actually incite people to upgrade only to realize they've fooled by over zealous fans.

David still rated the g10 lower than the 800U so how is that an improvement?

People on the forums have already stated that David gave them a nice "warm" review because that's what Panasonic wanted. Reviews aside maxdog why don't you care to enlighten me on how a g10 is better than say an 800U without bringing up custom mode?

Wow Patrick, you've become one angry poster lately. So a few people on this forum start a rumor and it's now fact? As for the G10, I haven't even really looked at it as I'm not in the market so I have no opinion one way or the other but I would venture a guess that it's improved whether you believe it or not. :rolleyes:

David still rated the g10 lower than the 800U so how is that an improvement?[/QUOTE]

the op asked about a Samsung LCD vs a Panasonic plasma and you somehow turned it into a Panasonic vs Pioneer then panasonic is crap thread
I don't give a flying #@$% what "DAVID" says three professional reviews of this tv say its a big step forward,I'm sorry if you can't accept that

"Performance
This is where the G10 really shines
The TC-P50G10 virtually nails thew HDTV color standard.In simple terms,many reviewers and videophiles feel compliance with the REC.709 HDTV color standard(used to master blu-ray discs) is essential for excellent HDTV performance.The readings and .709 standard(for red,green and blue in parenthesis)are R=x.642,y.329(x.64,y.33)G=x.229,y.605(x.30,y.60)B=x.15,y.056 (x.15,y.06)
NOTE THE THX CERTIFIED TH-46PZ800U CAME CLOSE BUT WAS NOT AS REC.709 ACCURATE AS THE G10"

Ok I'll admit it's baseless forum information but I'm still waiting for any rebuttal anyone has to offer on how these TVs have improved. For some reason no one seems to have an answer. I HATE it when people talk out of their rear about TVs and then actually incite people to upgrade only to realize they've fooled by over zealous fans.

David still rated the g10 lower than the 800U so how is that an improvement?

Ever since we called the Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-111FD "The best flat-panel HDTV ever," we've been comparing the most-expensive challengers on the market directly against it, looking to see if any could topple the champ. When Panasonic announced the TC-PG10 series at CES, we immediately knew it would go up against the Kuro in our lab. What we didn't know is that Pioneer would stop producing HDTVs, leaving the hill wide open for anybody to claim the king's throne.

The Panasonic G10 series is the new king. No, it's not as good overall as the soon-to-be-extinct Kuro Elite, but it comes closer than ever in the arena of black-level performance, and mounts a good fight in just about every other field of picture quality, with the exception of some color accuracy issues. Panasonic steeped the G10 in extra features compared with its less-expensive brethren, adding a THX mode that's largely responsible for its excellent picture, along with VieraCast for access to a limited range of Internet extras. The downside, as always, is that it costs significantly more than lower-end models, but if you're looking for the best picture quality in a post-Kuro world, the Panasonic TC-PG10 series is the safest bet so far this year.

Black level: Since it shares the same panel as the TC-PS1 series, we expected the TC-PG10 to produce a deep shade of black, and we weren't disappointed. In dark scenes, such as the shot of the dark control room for the game show set, shadows and black areas looked deeper and more realistic than those of any of the other displays in the room, with the exception of the Pioneer, which got a bit darker in the blackest areas like letterbox bars.

In a side-by-side comparison between the Pioneer and the G10, the Pioneer had a clear advantage only in actual black areas, like the bars or the black background behind the lettering asking how Jamal Malik got to be one question away from winning. In near-black areas, like the money in the foreground or shadows under the seats and along the equipment in the control room, the depth of black between the two was extremely close--although if we had to choose, we'd say the Pioneer appeared just a bit deeper. But the G10 got closer to the black level performance of the Kuro than any display we've ever tested, meaning it also beat the 800U from last year (although we didn't have an 800U to directly compare with, the G10 got much closer to the Kuro than the 800U did in our recollection).

Looks like a damn good improvement to me, not to mention their opening MSRP is a lot lower than last years 800u series.

It got much closer based on his recollection? No 800U on hand to test? No numerical values? Seems damn convenient to me. How the hell does David not have a 11g Panasonic around somewhere and why doesn't he measure the black levels?