I'm considering purchasing a used pinball machine for my HT/Bar area. I've followed a few threads in here, but was wondering if anybody could chime in and tell me a few things.

I'm looking to buy a older machine to start with, seems like the Craigslist in the Minneapolis area has quite a few to choose from. I'd like to stay <$1000 for my first machine. So I am guessing something from the late 70s, early 80s might work. I don't need anything overly elaborate, but would like electronic scoring.

Are machines expensive to maintain? Do they require a lot of routine work? How often does the "rubber" need replaced? (I've noticed a lot for sale saying "new rubber" -- not sure what that means?) To be honest, I am hoping that keeping pinball machines isn't something that requires a lot of costs surrounding maintenance. I mean, I know that it is a machine with lots of moving parts, but I don't want to be sinking $100 into it every other month.

Would anybody advise against getting a machine? Or recommend anything to look for for a first time buyer? I guess I am just trying to get people's honest impressions of owning a machine. :o

I can tell you any advise would be well received.

I have a 1970 Bally machine titled "Trail Drive". It is in excellent condition. All original parts, including all bulbs. It doesn't have electronic scoring of course, but it looks and functions great. I paid only $550 for mine. I've had it for about 9 months and so far not one problem with it. The rubber refers to the bumpers. I suppose they can suffer from dry rot. But since mine is so old, it may not speak for other machines, only that mine is a rare situation.

If I had room, I'd buy another one. My wife and I play ours all the time (at least twice a week).

Dan

Pinball machines are sort of like used cars. You can get one that will run forever or you may get one that requires a lot of upkeep.

The most important thing to do is pick out a title that you like. For $1K you can get a really nice older machine in really good condition.

You might want to go through a dealer who warranties there work for 6-12mo. Ideally you want a machine that has been shopped. What this should entail at a minimum is a thourough cleaning (ideally they take off all the parts clean it up and put it back togethor), replacement of all the burnt out bulbs and broken switches and replacement of any worn rubber pieces. New rubbers refers to the rubberband looking things on the flippers as well as the rubber rings on various parts of the playfield.

If your going craigslist things to look for are

1) wear on the playfield. Pay close attention to the area between the flippers as well as the outholes and anyplace the ball might "drop down".
2) Pay attention to the screen and make sure none of the pixels are out (be sure to play a 4 player game so the all the displays are used).
3) If possible have the guy put the machine in diagnositic mode this will let you know if there are bad switches.

Be sure and play the game and make sure all the pop bumbers and such work.

Pinball machines are under a certain amount of physical stress due to the ball hitting things so there will always be some wear.

Most pinball machines are pretty simple devices which can be repaired by yourself with only the parts cost (again similar to a used car). It depends on how mechanically inclined you are. If you know how to use a scrwdriver, can solder and trace a simple circuit you can do most playfield matainence. If you can istall RAM or a soundcard you pretty well equiped to change out the circuitboards.

Overall, these machines are pretty reliable. Remeber they are designed to be used in a pretty harsh environment (the arcade), where people are pretty abusive. I doubt you will treat your home machine like the kids in the arcade do.

K

I was going to post, but then read what kupermanp posted, and he pretty much covered it.

As he said, put the machine in diagnostic mode (older models have less extensive diagnostics, but anything electronic will have something). Check each lightbulb, swich, and solenoid to make sure it is working.

But one of the most important things is the playing surface. Make sure it looks good, or the resale value of the machine will suffer.

The rubber rings will get old and lose their rebounding ability. They can be replaced for typically under $20.

I buy all my parts from Pinball Resource. http://pbresource.com/ They are a great place to buy typically any part you need.

The good thing is that machines are grouped into specific motherboards that run each group so there is a lot of support out there for fixing them. They consist of lots of wires, but the boards are easy to remove, and get fixed.

I now have 15 pins, and they are not very difficult to keep running. They have to be easy to keep running, otherwise arcade managers would never keep them around.

Also when you are buying one from a private seller, look for someone who has a few machines, and knows how to maintain them. If you buy one from someone who does not have any others, and does not know how to maintain them, he might have "hacked" things together, and there may be problems to deal with. Look at the circuit boards, and make sure they look clean.

One of the biggest issues with older machines is acid damage from the battery that is very old and has leaked, and damaged the circuit board. This is very difficult to repair a board that is badly damaged, so check that out also.

Thank you very much for the information. I didn't even know there was a "diagnostic" mode, looks like I have some research to do.

Thanks again!

Chris

Check recgamespinball for collectors in Minneapolis area.
Like a Porsche get the best/newest one you can afford.
If it were me I would get a machine from a collector in your area who wants to move on to another machine.
At $1000 you may luck into a 90's Bally/Williams.
When you sell, if bought right, you get all your money back; Its not an expense its an investment.
Unless you get a dog.

Pinball machines are a wonderful Home Gameroom addition.

Basic maintenance is "easy" if you know your way around the innards of such machines - someone posted that it was as "easy" as simple car maintenance.

Problem is, car maintenance isn't simple or easy for the majority of people most of whom can barely get the hood open. Cars have evolved into machines that depend on complex interactions of computer driven electronic components and while I consider myself "handy" I leave even basic maintenance to the neighborhood mechanic.

The evolution of pinball is similar to that of cars and over time they have changed from relatively simple wired logic platforms to very complicated digital platforms.

Also, there is BIG difference between simple maintenance which I define as replacing burnt bulbs, changing rubber rings and keeping the playfield clean and polished/waxed and being able to actually fix something that is broken and makes the game broken and not available for playing.

Repair, even with the most basic of games ain't easy or it's easy only to those who are familiar with such machines and comfortable using tools and multi-meters and reading schematics.

We bought our first pin in 1976 - an EM or Electro-Mechanical game. EMs are probably the easiest to understand and fix IF you can read a schematic and trace battery to ground as these old games use wired logic - this means NO computers. I don't recommend you buy such a game unless you are old enough to have favorites you remember from your youth and unless it is a recognized "collectible" and in pristine collectible shape I wouldn't pay more than $200 for one of them.

In the late 70s the industry began introducing Solid State games and immediately all the old EMs became obsolete.

Suddenly, pinball games became much more complicated to trouble shoot. Now you are dealing with stored program control and circuit boards replaced all the wired logic. Some of these old Solid State games still have some Home Gameroom value but unless you find one that is considered a "collectible" and also in pristine and perfect condition I wouldn't pay more than $500 to $1000 for ANY of these type games. I just sold our last two Solid States - both very popular Bally games and in good condition for $600 each - a Eight Ball Deluxe and a Centaur - anyone who things they are worth more than that is not shopping and buying from the right people.

Just IMO - for $1000 or so a careful and determined shopper can find a good, fast and fun game from the "best" years of pinball - the early to mid 1990s and I wouldn't settle for anything older. Example - I recently bought a Williams Fish Tales our of a guys garage for $500.00 - My son recently bought a Gottlieb/Premier "Freddy Nightmare on Elm Street" for $1100.00 and a perfect Judge Dredd for $1,000.00.

I would NEVER buy from one of those Home Gameroom retail stores BUT that's cause we have had about 100 games in our home since 1976 and I CAN open 'em up and use a multi-meter and read schematics and am comfortable with replacing components on circuit boards like capacitors and transistors and coils on a playfield.

Just MAKE sure that before you plunk down any cash that you make sure that the game you buy is in 100% working order and the playfield is very good and the back glass is very good and the cabinet art is very good.

Send me a PM or email as you look cause I have all the time in the world to try and help you. Pinball in your home is AWESOME! If you don't really know the games and the market ASK for help with your decision.

Sounds good. Thanks! I'm on the lookout.

Chris

Added Clarification - comparing buying from a "retailer" versus a cheaper seller like an individual.

A nearby "retail" home gameroom store has a Twilight Zone for $5,000.00 (plus tax and delivery) or about $ 5400.00 BUT iw would include a six month warranty.

I bought our Twilight Zone from an Operator. The game was in a route location - it was dirty and had a number of burned out bulbs and flashers and worn rubber rings BUT the Operator made sure the game otherwise was in good operational order. I paid $1900.00 for the game which is a pretty good price for a TZ.

With our personal experience with games it was a simple thing to give the playfield a good cleaning/waxing/polishing and replace all the bulbs and flashers and rubber rings. After we got it home during diagnostics I found a problem with the clock assembly - there was a bad "opto" (optical sensor) on the clock circuit board plus two of the little bulbs were out - No sweat, I released the clock assembly from below the playfield - pulled the circuit board - replaced the opto and lamps and put it all back together.

Point Is - there are trade offs with most anything.

Kinda like personal computers - I can buy all the components and a case and assemble my own and load the OS and all the software. Most people would be totally lost trying to build a PC.

Same with pinball - once you know a bit about their innards you can do a lot of simple things - However, with no experience opening up the "head" or backbox (part behind the back glass) and removing the glass and lifting the playfield can be very daunting.

Trying to find and pay a technician for repair or maintenance can be problematic.

Work is usually charged on a hourly rate for labor plus parts - in our area labor usually includes a one hour travel additive on top of a two hour minimum with a rate of from $40.00 per hour to $100.00 per hour and the inexperienced owner is completely at the mercy of the tech - you can't even evaluate if he really knows what he/she is doing.

What would I do? If you find a game on C.List and go see it and it looks good and you play several games (all four players) and it includes a owner's manual and the price is within budget then be confident and buy it. Once you get it safely to your house odds are it will play just fine for a loooong time cause pins are made to survive abuse in a commercial environment. A careful shopper can often buy three nice games for the price of one at one of those Gameroom stores.

Okay - probably in combo with my first loooong post I've said too much.

Don't let us discourage you - go for it.