Ever since discovering avs I've envied a lot of the custom built theaters and living room setups with projectors. I picked up a cheap projector about 3 years ago. I had a lot of fun with it projecting onto a wall. We would look forward to it every weekend. Then came my 46" lcd and my projector has been a dust collector for about a year.

Unfortunately I decided to browse some ht setups on avs and within the week I had a new screen and projector delivered to my door. I've been using it for a few weeks and already regretting my purchase. I'm always amazed with the size of the picture for about 1 movie. Once the WOW wears off I start to get very picky about pq. I know that if you get a very high end projector and screen it can almost match a plasma. I also understand that projectors are often not compared fairly to a flatscreens pq because flaws will naturally be more visible in the large size.

My complaint about projectors is that they are like a 3 piece puzzle. I read a thread where someone described that the room itself, screen, and projector all have to work together as a unit. In my case I find this to be so true. My image looks washed out even at night because I have reflections from my coffee table and simply because I have white walls. I know that a better screen could help. After some more research I find the screens that work well in these situations costs about 4k.

Sure I could paint my walls, hang fabric, or whatever but I started asking myself do I really want to? I enjoy my living room the way it is. HD is suppose to be like looking out a window and for me and a lot of people with projectors they are not getting this kind of picture mostly because their room is the bottleneck in the setup. I've also thought about a future dedicated room in the basement. They look so cool here on avs but honestly once I expand into the basement I would want a bright and fun family room that I didn't have to make into a cave just so I can use a projector.

How many of these dedicated theater caves would we still see here on avs if projectors did not have all the restrictions that they do?

I now appreciate my flatscreen more than I ever have. I'm hoping that I can find a good home for my nearly brand new sharp dt-510. I'm saving up for a 60" display. While there is no comparison in size to a projector the ease of setup and use makes up for it to me.

I have a 67" DLP in my living room (and 5.1 sound) that puts out a fantastic picture. We watch it every day.

However, nothing compares to the 126" screen (and 7.1 sound) in the home theater for movie watching (and the occasional sports).

Yes, the room has a lot to do with it. I'd never put a projector in my living room for many reasons, but if you have the ability to make a dedicated space, there's nothing like it.

I noticed you used the word "cave" twice. Why? Any good theater will be dark. Do you go to the local cineplex? Is it dark in there when you watch a movie? Is it a cave? Movie watching SHOULD be done in the dark. Now, if you're just watching Judge Judy or Seinfeld reruns, perhaps not.

Many reasons to not put a projector in a living room? I can't imagine even one but we are all different critters.

We have a 56in 1080p VERY nice little television (they're all little compared to projector and screen) and, yes, when I stretch a movie image across a 120 inch diagonal it is not quite as sharp as same movie on the dinky little tv but our answer is So What?? - the WOW never wears off for us but, again, we are all different critters.

Now trying to achieve a decent Theater in the Home experience in a living room or other multi-purpose room can be better or worse depending on room characteristics and ability to control ambient light. Wall color affects things but, in our experience, color is not as important as reflectivity.

White can be an okay color if it is flat or totally non-reflective. Many people don't realize that their screen is probably the worts culprit of reflection and re-reflection of light back into and around the viewing room.

We started with a white 16:9 pull down screen and became MUCH happier with a Da-lite more square (72X96) and gray higher contrast screen. Our gray screen seems to reflect almost NO light back into the room to re-reflect off walls and such and another unexpected benefit is it makes the dreaded "black bars" that all home projectors display when scaling extra wide movie content almost invisible.

Yeah, I notice a slight lessening of picture sharpness using the projector but not enough to matter and specially when achieving a Theater experience compared to a maybe sharper but dinky TV experience - the two actually cannot be compared - IMO.

We don't have the space/room for a dedicated viewing room and if we did we would probably make something much more multi-functional like a game room and bar - but each to his or her own - we very much like our living room Theater experience - maybe your projector needs calibration cause if you can get your living room almost totally dark with just decent projector and complimentary screen I can't imagine the WOW ever wearing off!
Best of Luck

You can get a very decent screen for well under $4000 (or even under $1000). Check out Carada and Elite.

As you've noticed, your room can definitely impact picture quality. Even just painting the screen wall a darker color (does not have to be black) can go a long way in improving you picture. A colored accent wall could also add interest (beyond the screen) in an otherwise plain white room.

You don't need a total cave to make a projector and screen work... a few easy modifications or considerations can go a long way in making your experience much more enjoyable.

What are you using for a screen and projector currently?

I do a lot of entertainment system design & implementation. The fact is that doing a non-theater room configuration with a projector is the norm these days.

Most of us either cannot afford to give up a room in our home for the sake of having a dedicated home theater. Additionally; unless you're a real purest; most of us prefer an area which is conducive to entertaining & being social. Having a Super Bowl party in a dedicated room is simply not as much fun because you've got people seated in such a way that it's tough to communicate.

That said, having a Super Bowl party & watching it on an LCD TV is well; like watching the Super Bowl at anyone's home... it's a TV... TVs don't give you the same experience that a large-format projection video system offers_ it's why watching a movie in a theater gets you much mroe emotionally involved than seeing it on DVD on even a 65" TV does seated @ 10' away.

Projection video in a space such as a game room or family room is QUITE doable today and over the past 3 to 4 years or so, has become much more affordable to execute.

That said; even with today's technology; it can't be done using cheapo-stuff. Buying a cheap solution is ultimately going to lead to an experience which is more of a novelty_ you know; to have the Saturday evening movie night or perhaps a kids sleep-over.

I've unfortunately got to run right now_ it is Easter so gotta be the family guy. if you'd like to chat about some ideas & can share some more details about what type of experience you're looking for and budget you may have to deal with I'd be more than happy to assist.

It is best to PM me; not because I'm being I don't want to share with the forum_ I only receive notifications from AVSF when I receive a PM & unfortunately, my very busy work schedule prevents me from spending as much time here as I wish I could.

I'm currently using a sharp dt-510 and the cheapest pull down elite screen you can buy. I bought the screen mainly to experiment with until I found a permanent setup that I liked. Its certainly a budget setup but I know that I should be getting better black levels than I do now. My old projector was a screenplay 5000 and the sharp is a huge improvement over that.

On my lcd the blacks bars on movies blend in nicely with the trim around the tv. I've never seen a kuro but its amazing to think it could actually get better than this. With the projector it looks gray or maybe even closer to white. Its certainly watchable but it bothers me because I know I'm not getting the best picture that I can out of the equipment that I have.

So I've narrowed it down to three choices. The first option would be to just sell the projector and save up for a bigger flat screen. For the second one I have thought about using it down in my unfinished basement. I've followed some of the unfinished basement threads on here and there are a few people very happy doing this. To me this just doesn't seem as cozy and I'm not sure if I want to buy duplicate equipment for the basement just yet. The third option I have thought about is buying a da lite insta theater so I can take down the whole thing when not in use or move it anywhere I feel like. They use wide power so I'm not sure if that would give me the blacks levels I'm looking for. Would it at least be a improvement over the cheap elite screen?

Since I'm not ready to build in the basement yet I've been stressed out trying to find a setup that works for me.

I bought the JVC RS20 projector (pretty much the best black levels in a non-rich-guy-priced projector). Since my home theater is being constructed as we speak I brought my projector over to another AVSforum member's house to check it out.
It looked incredible and perhaps more amazing was the fact he has a Pioneer Kuro plasma in another room. Taking a look at the plasma after the projector, it's amazing how much the projector had much the same look, but on an enormous scale.

I don't know what your budget is, but the JVC RS10, the cheaper model, could perhaps get you closer to your goal.

thank you for the suggestions. I could save up the money for a higher end projector but that still doesn't fix the problems that I would need to solve in my living room. I'm better off just saving the money so I can one day finish my basement. When that day comes who knows what kind of display I will choose. In 5-10 years maybe we will have 80+ oled screens at a fair price and projectors may only be around for very large theaters.

I agree there will always be some wow affect with projectors. Its why I have been considering them so seriously. What I was really meaning to say in my original post is that I do think most people adjust to the size over time. Wasn't there a topic around here about how "all display sizes shrink"? I'm probably just making excuses because I'm not going projector but there is some truth to that. I do watch movies in the dark sometimes. Even on a smaller screen it can make it feel more immersive but I still have the option of watching during the day.

Did you make the decision to build a theater before you decided to get a projector?

JediSpork,

This was a few years ago. I thought projectors looked pretty good from what I'd seen but at that point I preferred the image quality of a plasma. But wanting a larger, more cinematic experience I wanted to upgrade to the biggest plasma image I could afford - a 65" Panasonic plasma. I had viewed that plasma many times in the store, checking various viewing distances to get good immersion and make the image feel big.

Then I borrowed a friend's (crappy) projector, just to project a 65" diagonal image on my wall, in order to figure out my seating arrangement for viewing the plasma. I found I had to move my viewing chairs quite close to get any feel of the image being "big." Then I made the "mistake" of zooming the image out to a 100 to 110 inch image on my wall. My jaw just dropped. It was so damned cool and [i]so much more impactful and cinematic. It's one thing to see a projected image in stores or someone else's home; it's another to see the impact in your own home. I came away thinking "this is the way to watch movies...I want this kind of impact and experience."

Fortunately the quality of front projectors improved very rapidly over the last several years to where they produce not merely big images, but gorgeous images. So I'm renoing the room for a projection set up instead of the plasma.

The best thing I did was borrow projectors (and eventually I bought a cheap Panasonic projector off ebay) in order to set up and play with various projected image sizes. This allowed me to go through the "shrinkage" phase before actually committing money to a screen. In other words, when I first projected images on my wall I thought 100" diagonal was plenty huge. But after a while I found I could enjoy larger images...then larger. Eventually I found my tolerance hit a point of about 124" (max) width for CinemaScope movies at an 11.5 foot viewing distance. This makes for a really cinematic experience.

In my case I'm doing something different than the norm: I'm ordering an extra large screen - 124" wide by 62" tall and, using 4 way automated masking, I will be varying the "screen size" as I desire, zooming the image to fit the screen.

Right now I feel like Robby the Robot from forbidden planet. He starts shooting sparks and malfunctioning when he can't make up his mind.

One thing I have decided for sure is that a flat screen is staying in the living room. I'm still looking at a 90" pull up screen for temp setups on the weekend in the living room. In your opinion do you think a 90" inch screen would be worthwhile over a 60" plasma?

Edit: I sit between 8 - 10 feet back from the screen. The reason I ask is because I'm worried that with a 90" screen I will keep wanting to go bigger and may never be satisfied so I might as well stay with a smaller more usable flat screen.

JediSpork,
Ditto on getting a good screen. And a light controlled room really makes a big difference along with wall color/treatments which is why most opt for the basement because you can control the design from the beginning. I also enjoy looking at the dedicated rooms in here myself, but opted for a media room and just couldn't do dedicated even with 1200 sq ft of basement to work with. We really wanted a lot of functionality (TV/106" screen, bar, game room, fireplace, bathroom, etc. I'm also partial to flatscreens too so we'll have a plasma TV and a motorized/tensioned screen that drops down in front of the plasma for everyday TV viewing. I like the Elite screen that I have and I didn't pay a lot for it either (even though I've only watched < 10 hours on it)!! It's been 2 years and I'm still plugging away since I'm doing it all myself. Hope to have it finished by early summer....pics coming soon....think basement.

I went ahead and ordered one of these 90" 16:9

http://www.da-lite.com/products/product.php?cID=19&pID=92

Not common here on avs but those that do have them are quite happy. The screen material should be a serious upgrade from what I have now. part of my problem is that the screen will partially be in front of the entrance to the kitchen so I'm not really sure how I could paint and make it work. I'm hoping the wide power will help with the reflections.

It will certainly look slapped together but as long as the function is there and I can hide the screen when I'm done I will be happy. Onward to switching out my uncomfortable couch for theater seats and trying to find a way to block light through my patio door.

I have the same projector as you, the dt-500 actually, and i LOVE the picture quality... colors need to be tuned in but the resolution/black level is as good as i could ask for. You dont have to go with black walls to improve the picture quality, just something other than white!

I built/am building my theater, not because its needed for a good projector image, but because when i was 13 i fell inlove with audio-video and wanted my own get-away. I pioneer kuro would no doubt provide a more accurate reproduction of the image compared to my 1080i crap contrast projector... but nothing replaces sitting in your own theater. If we didnt need the lowest light possible to make our projectors look good, i think most of us would still have a dedicated cave.

I think the answer is very simple, just get both a projector and a flatscreen. For around 4K or so, you can get a decent flatscreen, projector, and tensioned electric screen, then you are covered on all bases (unless you also want a scope screen, but that is another topic).

I have a 72" 16x9 screen in a 14'x25' totally dark, light controlled room that looks way too small for my size room with the lights on. But project a movie on the screen with the lights off and you have an image that looks way bigger than it should. That's because the image is looking like it's just floating in mid air, not giving the room any scale to compare the image to. The room just seems to disappear. I've had 14 people in my theater room at one time, and not once did anybody complain about the image looking too small with the lights off. Everyone was in awe of what they experienced.

Dan

Ever since discovering avs I've envied a lot of the custom built theaters and living room setups with projectors. I picked up a cheap projector about 3 years ago. I had a lot of fun with it projecting onto a wall. We would look forward to it every weekend. Then came my 46" lcd and my projector has been a dust collector for about a year.

Unfortunately I decided to browse some ht setups on avs and within the week I had a new screen and projector delivered to my door. I've been using it for a few weeks and already regretting my purchase. I'm always amazed with the size of the picture for about 1 movie. Once the WOW wears off I start to get very picky about pq. I know that if you get a very high end projector and screen it can almost match a plasma. I also understand that projectors are often not compared fairly to a flatscreens pq because flaws will naturally be more visible in the large size.

My complaint about projectors is that they are like a 3 piece puzzle. I read a thread where someone described that the room itself, screen, and projector all have to work together as a unit. In my case I find this to be so true. My image looks washed out even at night because I have reflections from my coffee table and simply because I have white walls. I know that a better screen could help. After some more research I find the screens that work well in these situations costs about 4k.

Sure I could paint my walls, hang fabric, or whatever but I started asking myself do I really want to? I enjoy my living room the way it is. HD is suppose to be like looking out a window and for me and a lot of people with projectors they are not getting this kind of picture mostly because their room is the bottleneck in the setup. I've also thought about a future dedicated room in the basement. They look so cool here on avs but honestly once I expand into the basement I would want a bright and fun family room that I didn't have to make into a cave just so I can use a projector.

How many of these dedicated theater caves would we still see here on avs if projectors did not have all the restrictions that they do?

I now appreciate my flatscreen more than I ever have. I'm hoping that I can find a good home for my nearly brand new sharp dt-510. I'm saving up for a 60" display. While there is no comparison in size to a projector the ease of setup and use makes up for it to me.

No matter waht anybody says.. 60" is firmly in not projection territory. Dedicated theaters are just that, and that's what I built for that purpose at hand.

I vote for having both in the living room. We have a 46" for normal viewing and watch the 150" screen EVERY night for TV, Sports, and Movies. You can make room improvements knowing that you aren't shooting for perfection - just a much better "wow" experience than a small ;) TV can give. A little bit darker paint makes a huge difference. We went with Taupe walls and that really darkens the room at night compare to white. Adding darker curtains helps too - you can keep them pulled during the day and let them down at night to darken the room even more.

The comment regarding entertaining cannot be understated. When we have gatherings - from 4 to 30 people - everyone hangs in the kitchen/bar/breakfast nook area which is about 25 feet back from the screen. There is no comparison whether you are doing a music jukebox/media center deal like XBMC or watching a sporting event. Everyone can see the screen and is very impressed.

Most importantly for me, once I got the audio right (floorstanding Klipsch reference line and a decent sub) there was no chance that a small TV could keep up with the amazing sound. :cool: I know some folks over on the Klipsch thread would argue their 60" TVs keep up just fine, but I ain't buying...

Go for both!