Are there any titles out there?

Short answer - no.

But don't be afraid of the Paramount Dolby Digital titles, there's really not that great of difference between those and the DD+ counterparts on HD-DVD. And Mission Impossible 3 is a stunner.

There is no use for DD+ on Blu-ray where all but the earliest releases have lossless soundtracks.

There is no use for DD+ on Blu-ray where all but the earliest releases have lossless soundtracks.

But sometimes DTS HD High Resolution is employed (as an example, very recently by Disney for Pinocchio european releases, for non-English tracks) whereas it's the DTS counterpart to Dolby Digital Plus.

The main problem with using DD+ (besides it's not needed with lossless) is unlike HD DVD it's an optional codec. So if you use DD+ you must also include a DD track (or other mandatory track) making it very wasteful and redundant for lossy.

So what happens to the R&D Dolby put into DD+?

Isn't some sat provider talking about using it?

Are there any titles out there?On Blu-ray, DD+ is used only as an extension packet (i.e., only when a soundtrack goes beyond 5.1 channels). Since 6.1 and 7.1 tracks have typically been lossless on Blu-ray, I doubt you'll see DD+ used much (if at all).

On Blu-ray, DD+ is used only as an extension packet (i.e., only when a soundtrack goes beyond 5.1 channels). Since 6.1 and 7.1 tracks have typically been lossless on Blu-ray, I doubt you'll see DD+ used much (if at all).

Yes BD cant use the extra bits inside the 5.1 area. You almost gives the 2 extra channels 1mbs to play with.

And also since its not mandatory. Its not much use for it in BD.


But there is one thing you could use it on BD. Its a more effective codec compared to Dolby Digital, when you are in the lower area (sub 640).

So if you wanted to throw in alot of lossy 5.1 tracks on a BD without letting it steal to much space and bandwith. DD+ could give a quality advantage over plain DD. Sure we still have the mandatory problem.

But there is one thing you could use it on BD. Its a more effective codec compared to Dolby Digital, when you are in the lower area (sub 640).
For some reason I was under the impression that DD+ was basically an extension to the original DD spec. That is, it allows for more channels and higher bitrates. I thought that a DD+ track encoded at <640kbps and in 5.1 (or less) was equivalent to a comparably-encoded DD track.

So if you wanted to throw in alot of lossy 5.1 tracks on a BD without letting it steal to much space and bandwith. DD+ could give a quality advantage over plain DD.Great idea, especially since every DD+ decoder has a legacy DD conversion tool built-in. But, as you said, there's still the mandatory problem: the BD spec requires a DD track.

The 'A View from Space with Heavenly Music' Blu-ray claims DD+ on the packaging, but I haven't checked the bitstream on the disc to verify whether it's really DD+ or just DD.

So what happens to the R&D Dolby put into DD+?

Isn't some sat provider talking about using it?

The Vudu download service claims that all of their movies are encoded with DD+ audio. However, their set top box is only capable of outputting DD 5.1. Why they would bother with DD+ in that case is something I can't figure out.

Why they would bother with DD+ in that case is something I can't figure out.Maybe to save on storage space and transmission bandwidth. As MovieSwede alluded to, DD+ is a more efficient codec than DD, especially at low bitrates. DD+ decoders, like the one presumably in the Vudu box, can convert DD+ to DD without having to fully decode to PCM and re-encode. So it makes sense to store and transmit using DD+, but output as legacy DD (to maximize backwards compatibility).

Maybe to save on storage space and transmission bandwidth. As MovieSwede alluded to, DD+ is a more efficient codec than DD, especially at low bitrates. DD+ decoders, like the one presumably in the Vudu box, can convert DD+ to DD without having to fully decode to PCM and re-encode. So it makes sense to store and transmit using DD+, but output as legacy DD (to maximize backwards compatibility).

Yes, but that would only make sense if they transmit at lower bitrate and output as higher bitrate. Alt that they plan in the future to output DD+.

Does the VUDU output at DD640?

In a sense, DD+ is actually on quite a few releases - it is commonly used as the codec for the secondary BonusView audio track on discs using TrueHD as the main audio track.

As far as "real" appearances go, there is the Dolby Demo disc "The Sound of High Definition":
http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/bdreviews/dolbysounds.htm

One of the Transformers tracks is DD+.

I always considered 640 as DD+. The maximum on DVD has always been 448 whereas on Blu-Ray it's often 640. If that's not DD+ (granted a rather minor improvement), what would it be considered?

I always considered 640 as DD+. The maximum on DVD has always been 448 whereas on Blu-Ray it's often 640. If that's not DD+ (granted a rather minor improvement), what would it be considered?

DD640 has always been a part of the Dolby Digital specs. But it wasnt in the DVD specs for Dolby Digital.

So its ordinary Dolby Digital that just goes beyond what DVD could handle. (There was at least one DVD title that had a optional DD640 track) But not every player could handle it.

So DD640 is not Dolby Digital Plus.

One of the Transformers tracks is DD+.Only on HD DVD, where the soundtrack was DD+ at 1.5Mbps. On Blu-ray, 'Transformers' was TrueHD.

No, on Blu-ray.

eac3to v3.15
command line: eac3to.exe "G:" 1)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M2TS, 2 video tracks, 5 audio tracks, 8 subtitle tracks, 2:23:27, 24p /1.001
1: Chapters, 23 chapters
2: h264/AVC, 1080p24 /1.001 (16:9)
3: h264/AVC, 480p24 /1.001 (20:11)
4: TrueHD/AC3, English, 5.1 channels, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
(embedded: AC3, 5.1 channels, 640kbps, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB)
5: AC3, French, 5.1 channels, 640kbps, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
6: AC3, Spanish, 5.1 channels, 640kbps, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
7: AC3 Surround, English, 2.0 channels, 192kbps, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
8: E-AC3, English, 2.0 channels, 192kbps, 48khz, dialnorm: -27dB
9: Subtitle (PGS), English
10: Subtitle (PGS), English
11: Subtitle (PGS), French
12: Subtitle (PGS), Spanish
13: Subtitle (PGS), Portuguese
14: Subtitle (PGS), French
15: Subtitle (PGS), Spanish
16: Subtitle (PGS), English

No, on Blu-ray.That's for secondary audio, not for the soundtrack itself. BD specs don't allow DD+ to be used for the main soundtrack if it is 5.1 or fewer channels.

Long story short:

DD and HD DVD: DD limited to 5.1 640kbps, DD+ is necessary for 6.1/7.1 and >640kbps

Blu-ray: DD extended to >640kbps, DD+ only necessary for 6.1/7.1 tracks (and possibly secondary audio tracks, e.g. Transformers BonusView)

That's for secondary audio, not for the soundtrack itself.

I know, just merely pointing out that Blu-rays with DD+ audio tracks (be it primary or secondary) do exist. I did say 'One of' for a reason. :p

...So if you use DD+ you must also include a DD track (or other mandatory track) making it very wasteful and redundant for lossy.

There is no redundancy: the 5.1 DD is the core of DD+.

There is no redundancy: the 5.1 DD is the core of DD+.

Even if you have a DD+ track at 448kbps?

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=638136#post638136

That post explains everything you need to know about why Dolby Digital Plus was developed, and why DVD (and HD DVD) didn't support Dolby Digital at the format's maximum 640 kbps (it surely wasn't for space or bandwidth issues!). As such, there can't be a DVD with Dolby Digital at 640 kbps--it's physically impossible due to the packet read structure of the format, and has nothing to do with the players themselves.

Basically, Dolby Digital Plus was made for HD DVD, and the sound format went out with the disc format, since it's not really supported well on Blu-ray, likely due to sheer lack of need.

DD640 has always been a part of the Dolby Digital specs. But it wasnt in the DVD specs for Dolby Digital.

So its ordinary Dolby Digital that just goes beyond what DVD could handle.

(There was at least one DVD title that had a optional DD640 track) But not every player could handle it.

There is no redundancy: the 5.1 DD is the core of DD+.
Even if you have a DD+ track at 448kbps?

The Dolby HD Whitepaper did not specifically include this scenario but there is no reason that I've read to assume that it would be structured differently in a hypothetical lowish bit-rate DD+ 6.1 or 7.1 track on BD. Maybe Roger Dressler (co-author of the Whitepaper) would comment further if needed. DD+ isn't going to make any significant presence as primary audio on BD so it's time to move on and focus on lossless audio.

Long story short:

DD and HD DVD: DD limited to 5.1 640kbps, DD+ is necessary for 6.1/7.1 and >640kbps

Blu-ray: DD extended to >640kbps, DD+ only necessary for 6.1/7.1 tracks (and possibly secondary audio tracks, e.g. Transformers BonusView)This is incorrect. DD cannot go beyond 640kbps on BD.
That post explains everything you need to know about why Dolby Digital Plus was developed, and why DVD (and HD DVD) didn't support Dolby Digital at the format's maximum 640 kbps (it surely wasn't for space or bandwidth issues!). As such, there can't be a DVD with Dolby Digital at 640 kbps--it's physically impossible due to the packet read structure of the format, and has nothing to do with the players themselves.It is true that DD+ has more fine-grain data rate control and can thus achieve higher data rates on packet-based stream formats (which are used on DVD and HD DVD). But there are other advantages:
- A number of optimizations to the basic algorithms and filterbanks that significantly improve coding efficiency.
- Larger operating range up to about 6Mbps.
- Extended channel format that allows more than 5.1 discrete channels

Take a look at this paper (http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/zz-_Shared_Assets/English_PDFs/Professional/pa_at_AES%20Intro%20to%20Dolby%20Digital%20Plus.pdf) for more technical details.
Basically, Dolby Digital Plus was made for HD DVD, and the sound format went out with the disc format, since it's not really supported well on Blu-ray, likely due to sheer lack of need.In fact, DD+ (or E-AC3) is quite a bit older than HD-DVD and was specifically aimed not just at packaged media, but at broadcast applications as well. It has also been adopted as a standard by both ATSC and DVB.

There is no redundancy: the 5.1 DD is the core of DD+.

I believe that DD+ uses a different file system and doesn't contain a standard DD core.

On BD its 640K core+1.024M extensions that replaces the rear surrounds and adds rear channels.

On BD its 640K core+1.024M extensions that replaces the rear surrounds and adds rear channels.

But I still wonder what happen on BD if you have a DD+ file that is less then 640kbps?

I believe that DD+ uses a different file system and doesn't contain a standard DD core.It does on BD, where DD+ is only used as an extension packet to go above 5.1 discrete channels. For 6.1 and 7.1 channel DD+ soundtracks on BD, the 5.1 core is legacy DD.

DD and HD DVD: DD limited to 5.1 640kbps, DD+ is necessary for 6.1/7.1 and >640kbps

actually DD on HD DVD was limited to a max of 504Kbps

I just bought "The Amateurs". It has DD Plus on it.