I will be building a house and will have a full basement dedicated to a theater room, bar/game room, and small gym. I dont want to go crazy with it, but what things should i have the builder do as they finish the basement. THe only things that come to mind are:

Wiring for 7.1
Wiring to rack closet
Wiring to theater mount

Is there any special Lighting i should get or is recessed lighting good enough?

Without really spelling out your goals other than "not go crazy with it" - I can make three suggestions:

1. Look at the last link in my thread and related sublinks (although may tend towards "crazy")
2. Conduit, at a minimum to the PJ 2" or greater - technologies change, wires fail.
3. Read the "What I would do differently" thread at the top of the forum.

Good luck.

PS a fourth move is give us more about your project (seating needs, sound isolation needs, planned use - private cave vs entertaining space, budget, etc) and a floorplan including utilities, columns, hvac vents, etc.

Without really spelling out your goals other than "not go crazy with it" - I can make three suggestions:

1. Look at the last link in my thread and related sublinks (although may tend towards "crazy")
2. Conduit, at a minimum to the PJ 2" or greater - technologies change, wires fail.
3. Read the "What I would do differently" thread at the top of the forum.

Good luck.

PS a fourth move is give us more about your project (seating needs, sound isolation needs, planned use - private cave vs entertaining space, budget, etc) and a floorplan including utilities, columns, hvac vents, etc.


Thanks for the suggestions. I am sorry i did not give that much detail. The whole process of moving seems overwhelming at times.

Seating maybe 2 rows of theater seats for 6 people. I already have a PJ, need some speakers, but i am not an audiophile, so i can stay low cost on those. The main use will be me and my wife. I would like a theater feel, so dimming lights will be nice. I dont care too much about sound isolation, but i would like decent sound. I dont have a floorplan yet, should in a week or 2.

The time to plan sound proofing begins before the walls are up. What level of need do you have to keep the sound in the theater? will you be in your man-space while others are trying to sleep/study/read upstairs?

And recessed lighting turns your ceiling into swiss cheese.

The time to plan sound proofing begins before the walls are up. What level of need do you have to keep the sound in the theater? will you be in your man-space while others are trying to sleep/study/read upstairs?

And recessed lighting turns your ceiling into swiss cheese.

Is there any cheap solution to sound proofing...i dont need alot if any.

What type of lighting do you recommend. Sconces with rope floor lighting?

for sound control, sconces, indirect lighting using cove molding, recessed lights placed in soffits with the soffits built inside the room after the wall and ceiling is drywalled.

Cheap, add more layers of drywall to wall and ceiling, use insulation, Green glue. Additional investment would be stagged studs, a second decoupled set of ceiling joists, use of whisper clips and channel.

But as many here can testify

Turning up the sound to reference levels without the wife complaining = Priceless.

Is there any cheap solution to sound proofing...i dont need alot if any.

What type of lighting do you recommend. Sconces with rope floor lighting?

If you dont care about soundproofing then go ahead and put in the recessed lighting

If you dont care about soundproofing then go ahead and put in the recessed lighting

Not necessarily. You can easily do pot lights inside the soffit after the ceiling has been drywalled - or you can build boxes around them to place in ceiling.

Pot lights are only a danger to your soundproofing if you chop a hole in your ceiling and throw them up. When done right they don't hurt you sound and they look great.

Since you asked about lighting - I do recommend the Lutron Grafik Eye dimmer. There are lots of other/cheaper options, but it has an admirable track record. Look at ebay for gray market prices.

If you go with Grafik eye - you will then need to plan your lighting zones. Each zone is a grouping of lights. In my old theater I had four zones:

1. Soffit Rope light
2. Side Sconces
3. Rear Sconces
4. Overhead cans (clean up was the thought - not used much)

In my next space I am eliminating the over head cans for clean up, but may add some in a soffit that wash the screen. This is a cool effect take a look at the show me your screenwall thread for a lot of examples. I am also planning to add a star ceiling. I am not sure if I will split the side and rear sconces. Its nice to have the control (I would run the rears dimmed for a more social viewing), but you pay a premium to go from a 4 zone to a 6 zone controller (and its a smaller room). So I expect to have zones for:
1. Rope light
2. Star ceiling
3. Screen washing soffit mounted cans
4. Sconces
[5] optional separate zone for side sconces
[6] likely unused. If I had room for a riser, some do riser steps or lighted poster cases, lights behind an AT screen, etc

Its a lot of "effect" lighting, but I agree that controlled lighting delivers a lot of the theater feel, and so I choose to invest in it.

There are a lot of other lighting control options x-10, insteon, zwave, spacer system, etc. It may be that one of these will meet your needs better.

great...this is great. I have so many things to think about that i didnt realize. I am planning on insteon and/or zwave, so i might go that route.

He said ...

Is there any cheap solution to sound proofing...i dont need alot if any.




Not necessarily. You can easily do pot lights inside the soffit after the ceiling has been drywalled - or you can build boxes around them to place in ceiling.

Pot lights are only a danger to your soundproofing if you chop a hole in your ceiling and throw them up. When done right they don't hurt you sound and they look great.

I dont know of a cheap solution and he said he does not need alot ... if any ???

I know you can build backer boxes etc etc but that is not what he asked for ;)

Cheap sound isolation is to double up the layers of drywall - walls AND ceiling, plus insulation, again walls AND ceiling. Plus a good door, plus some thought to HVAC. But if you do that, you'll start looking at adding green glue, decoupled construction techniques, etc. Not a bad thing, but takes planning and some $. Bear in mind, that the benefits are twofold - keep sound in, and keep noise out. Don't forget a door bell though.

If you were planning on a drop ceiling, abandon all hope of sound isolation.

AT LEAST 9ft wall pours. I'd probably do 10 if I were building the house.


EDIT: Of course, I'd also design for clear span and sound isolate every room. Yes, every. Ambient noise bothers me. So what do I know.

Cheap sound isolation is to double up the layers of drywall - walls AND ceiling, plus insulation, again walls AND ceiling. Plus a good door, plus some thought to HVAC. But if you do that, you'll start looking at adding green glue, decoupled construction techniques, etc. Not a bad thing, but takes planning and some $. Bear in mind, that the benefits are twofold - keep sound in, and keep noise out. Don't forget a door bell though.

If you were planning on a drop ceiling, abandon all hope of sound isolation.


What you just described is to double the cost of his construction on an issue he already said he does not care about :p

He said ...








I dont know of a cheap solution and he said he does not need alot ... if any ???

I know you can build backer boxes etc etc but that is not what he asked for ;)

Both methods (building a soffit or backer boxes) are dirt cheap. He does care about sound proofing...that is the whole premis of this discussion. And you can do pot lights inexpensively and still control your sound...that was the point I was trying to make.

How much is a few feet of MDF? Or a few strapping boards to build a soffit...it's pennies in the scheme of building a new home.

AT LEAST 9ft wall pours. I'd probably do 10 if I were building the house.

Exactly what I was going to say. Everything else can be changed/modified at any time, but you're stuck with whatever ceiling height you start out with.

He does care about sound proofing...that is the whole premis of this discussion.

When someone says "can I do soundproofing cheap?" ... and that he does not need alot ... if any ... does not strike me as a willingness to put much effort into it .... whats the point in building backer boxes if the rest like drywall layers, hvac etc etc is not addressed

Thanks for all the responses so far. As far as soundproofing, let me clarify alittle. I am approaching the end of my budget (all to quickly) and wont have much left for the theater room at this point. I was more hoping to find some things an average builder could do/plan for at little to no extra cost at this point. I will be able to do additional work in the future, but i want to save myself huge headaches.

I am not sure how high the ceilings are yet, i assume 7-8' since it is not a walkout basement. THere is an option for a 9' walkout, but it blows my budget.

I dont care if i dont have any sound proofing, as long as the audio quality in the room is good.

You can't have one without the other, sorry, man.

Unless your definition of 'good sound quality' is a ghetto blaster in the park.

Get the builder to take what precautions you can afford as far as insulation in the walls and floors. Get him to frame that room 24" OC or just ask him what he would charge to do stagger studs...he probably wouldn't charge any more for that one room...it's just a few extra 2x4's.

Also ask him to put a soffit up after they drywall the ceiling in the room - that way you can add whatever lighting etc you want later. I'm sure he wouldn't charge much for that either.

This one is important - see how much they can avoid running stuff through that room. By stuff I mean, ventillation travelling to other areas of the home, sewer and water pipes - anything that could be seen as a weak point in the accoustics.

For the actual ventilation going to /that/ room - get him to use accoustic duct - it's cheap, don't worry.

Those things are very inexpensive when you are talking about a new build...I suggest starting with that.

...I dont care if i dont have any sound proofing, as long as the audio quality in the room is good.

You can't have one without the other, sorry, man...

That is not correct. Sound isolation and sound quality are two different things, unless you live near train tracks or another source of loud noise. For relatively good bang for the buck in the sound isolation part, you can do two layers of 5/8" drywall with Green Glue in the middle. Depending on the size of the room, this will probably cost you in the range of $1k extra, but you must also take precautions to not make too many cuts through the drywall (electric boxes, can lights, etc.).

For acoustics, you want to look at sound treatments. These can be as simple as putting up a couple of 2" sound panels at the first reflection points or as intricate as having custom plans designed for you by a professional acoustician. Many go with something inbetween. If you plan on doing this part yourself, you can always go back and do them after the house is completed.

CJ

That is not correct. Sound isolation and sound quality are two different things, unless you live near train tracks or another source of loud noise. For relatively good bang for the buck in the sound isolation part, you can do two layers of 5/8" drywall with Green Glue in the middle. Depending on the size of the room, this will probably cost you in the range of $1k extra, but you must also take precautions to not make too many cuts through the drywall (electric boxes, can lights, etc.).

For acoustics, you want to look at sound treatments. These can be as simple as putting up a couple of 2" sound panels at the first reflection points or as intricate as having custom plans designed for you by a professional acoustician. Many go with something inbetween. If you plan on doing this part yourself, you can always go back and do them after the house is completed.

CJ

Read up on green glue - it isn't just a sound proofer. It has to do with the accoustic qualities of the room as well...

My general statement stands.

Read up on green glue - it isn't just a sound proofer. It has to do with the accoustic qualities of the room as well...

My general statement stands.

I don't know where you got this from? GG is a dampening agent that converts mechanical energy into heat. It isn't used as an audio treatment. Yes a quiet room allows for one to enjoy the audio track when it's both as it's loudest and quietest (I seem to recall Dennis quoting around 22 dBs), I am not aware of GG being used for audio treatment purposes.

Read up on green glue - it isn't just a sound proofer. It has to do with the accoustic qualities of the room as well...

My general statement stands.

I agree with CJ more. That said, there is some accoustic benefit. GG will isolate the space, which as Dennis Erskine often points out, reduces the amount of noise that gets IN the room (furnace, dishwasher, traffic, whatever), with a low noise floor you can give the sound engineers full range of the spectrum they record in the soundtrack. So yes, it helps with acoustics, but for many of us (but not the OP per earlier posts) the bigger benefit in isolation is not letting too much sound out of the theater.

I agree with CJ more. That said, there is some accoustic benefit. GG will isolate the space, which as Dennis Erskine often points out, reduces the amount of noise that gets IN the room (furnace, dishwasher, traffic, whatever), with a low noise floor you can give the sound engineers full range of the spectrum they record in the soundtrack. So yes, it helps with acoustics, but for many of us (but not the OP per earlier posts) the bigger benefit in isolation is not letting too much sound out of the theater.

I can see what you are saying...it doesn't change the fact that it's related to the accoustics...so what I said stands. If he doesn't do anything to isolate sound in the theatre it will have a negative impact on the acoustics. If he does isolate the room by some means it will have a positive impact...so the two are eternally entwined - which was my point. I'm not trying to be a butt about it, but it's true. And it's all subjective anyway...his idea of 'good sound' could be crap to the rest of us.

a⋅cous⋅tic   /əˈkustɪk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [uh-koo-stik] Show IPA
–adjective Also, a⋅cous⋅ti⋅cal.
1. pertaining to the sense or organs of hearing, to sound, or to the science of sound.
2. (of a building material) designed for controlling sound.
3. Music. a. of, pertaining to, or being a musical instrument whose sound is not electrically enhanced or modified.
b. arranged for or made up of such instruments: an acoustic solo; an acoustic group.

On a sidenote - this is all a pointless discussion, as if you will read my orginal post I addressed his questions accurately. My suggestions to him were all inexpensive things he could request of the builder at this point that will enhance the quality of sound he recieves in his room without going overboard, and still allowing him to make some enhancements later.

Are you really arguing semantics just so "what you said stands?"

To keep things simple for newcomers, we tend to try to separate room acoustics (the art and science of having a good sounding room) from sound proofing. While related, they aren't the same concept when it come to the practicalities of room construction.

My whole point was that they are related....are you not listening?

Let's just get back to the topic, and stop filling this guys thread with our disagreement as I reiterate:

"On a sidenote - this is all a pointless discussion, as if you will read my orginal post I addressed his questions accurately. My suggestions to him were all inexpensive things he could request of the builder at this point that will enhance the quality of sound he recieves in his room without going overboard, and still allowing him to make some enhancements later."

The noise floor is part of in-room acoustics to be certain.

Another related component: Sound that enters a wall can re-enter the room milliseconds later. Creating a muddier sound. Generally only of interest to a 2-channel tube amp purist with records. But another generally un-discussed benefit.

Lowering the noise floor in a room is the first step in getting to good acoustics in the room. If that noise floor is over 22dB, you're going to exacerbate the problems associated with the remaining "bad" acoustics in the room.

My general advice to those in this situation is to spend your first dollars on those things which are impossible or very expensive to change later and spend your last dollars on things easily changed or upgraded. In the end, budget priced gear will sound good in a good room. Bzillion dollar gear in a poor room will sound worse than the budget gear.

I really shouldn't listen to the little red man on my shoulder, but the angel on the other shoulder isn't really saying anything...

You can't have one without the other, sorry, man.

Unless your definition of 'good sound quality' is a ghetto blaster in the park.

Read up on green glue - it isn't just a sound proofer. It has to do with the accoustic qualities of the room as well...

My general statement stands.

I can see what you are saying...it doesn't change the fact that it's related to the accoustics...so what I said stands. If he doesn't do anything to isolate sound in the theatre it will have a negative impact on the acoustics. If he does isolate the room by some means it will have a positive impact...so the two are eternally entwined - which was my point.

That was not your point. "Read up on green glue - it isn't just a sound proofer. It has to do with the acoustic qualities of the room as well..."

The noise floor is part of in-room acoustics to be certain.

Which is why I said unless you live next to a source of noise (I guess I did quote loud sources, but I was doing so to try to illustrate the point). In any case, it's to all of our benefits when the real experts chime in.

Another related component: Sound that enters a wall can re-enter the room milliseconds later. Creating a muddier sound. Generally only of interest to a 2-channel tube amp purist with records. But another generally un-discussed benefit.

That's one thing I had never thought of.

In any case, as usual, Dennis is spot on:
My general advice to those in this situation is to spend your first dollars on those things which are impossible or very expensive to change later and spend your last dollars on things easily changed or upgraded. In the end, budget priced gear will sound good in a good room. Bzillion dollar gear in a poor room will sound worse than the budget gear.

CJ

PS- I like the new unmoderated Dennis!

Thanks again guys. I will try and post pics of the progress. I have a feeling it unfortunately wont be a dedicated room. The wife wants to entertain for hockey games and wants more open space. So it will be a 50' LCD on the wall with a 120" electric drop down in front of it. Cant wait!

Which is why I said unless you live next to a source of noise (I guess I did quote loud sources, but I was doing so to try to illustrate the point). In any case, it's to all of our benefits when the real experts chime in.
We live in a noisy world. A quiet urban home will have a noise floor in the 30 to 33dB range. Sound tracks start at 22dB ... that's about an 8 times difference. Urban, by the way, isn't near an external noise source. Most of that noise is generated by mechanical equipment in the house (of course, there's wind, rain, etc. noise sources.)

I know you are trying to prove something by stacking all my quotes, but I'm really not sure what it was...

I used the words "related to acoustics" several times, because it is. That is the only point I was trying to make, and it's right...as you can see the "experts" agree that it does contribute to the overal 'quality of sound' in the room.

You can't take a home full of all kinds of ambient noise (which we all have), throw up a few panels of some type of insulation product and have a great sounding room. A great sounding room comes from a combination of things and part of that is sound isolation. It all ties in. de-coupling doesn't replace green glue, green glue doesn't replace absorptive insulation, you still need acoustic treatment at reflection points, and bass traps for lows....it all comes together.

If he can request the few things I recommended of his builder at this stage of the game, he will be ahead the ball in one day having a room with great acoustics. They are easy and cheap at this stage, difficult and expensive later.

I will step out now, didn't mean to get your hackles up or to offend you in any way.