I would like a little help in developing design ideas for my screen wall with electrical/mechanical access. I won’t be building it for a couple of weeks but I need some design help. After a few PM exchanges, I’m starting this thread to open the discussion to a broader audience.

I want to go with a minimalist wall with a 120” or 125” diagonal 2:35 AT screen (DIY or purchase). My speakers are modest sized bookshelf Infinity Beta 20s with a fairly large center channel Beta 360 and two Infinity subs, but there should be room to step past them. To access my electrical panel and sump pump, I need the screen wall to open. I want to use some hinges to have it open from the left side or swing up from the bottom and stay up until it is closed. I want the screen wall to open because I’m not certain of the code implication of having to open the screen and step over the false wall to access the panel. Just as important, is making access easy when I'm away. While my initial plan is to use hinges of some sort, I am open to all suggestions.

The room is further along, but the unfinished walls seem to provide more detail. The first pic shows the space. It is 11’1” wide by 93” to the ceiling, 83” to the bottom of the soffit.

The screen will go in front of the column pictured on the right. It is 39” from the front wall. The sump pump is on the lower left with the electric panel just to the right of it and the sat/tv/phone panel further right.
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/DSC02064.jpg

I plan to build a stage about 8” high so height between the stage and soffit will be about 75”. With a 120” diagonal scope screen, I’d have about 8” on each side that would get a fabric panel but not need to move. With a 125” diagonal scope screen, I’d have about 5” on each side.
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/HTfrontwithdimensions.jpg

Two additional issues deserve mention here as well. When building my column, I made it 3 inches too big. So, the hinging will have to account for this. When I decided keep the current entrance location, it allowed me to lengthen the room a couple of feet but I already had my LV and stage lighting runs in place. Now they protrude past my intended screen wall. I think an acoustic panel will cover this, though.
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/DSC02076.jpg

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/DSC02078.jpg

Here is my concept (not really a plan for access) for a screen wall. The middle section is what I would like to either hinge to the back of the soffit to open vertically or hinge on the right to open from the left. Only have access to MS Paint at this time.
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/HTfront.jpg

I knew this part would be difficult when I started my build (see post #3 in my build thread), but once I finish the riser and stage I’d like to have a solid plan for the screen wall. I’d appreciate your feedback and suggestions.

Thanks,

kjlewie

Just make the screen removable. Mine pops out. Then i have access to any thing behind the screen wall.

Yes, I pulled a permit. Interesting suggestion about getting the final inspection before building the stage. Someone else mentioned the same thing to me months ago, but I'd forgotten. Just shows how long these builds take or how short my memory is. Funny, during my initial planning, I too chickened out and had the panel at the back of my original design. I decided to flip the room under the belief that I'd figure this out. I'm thinking I should have majored in engineering.

Just make the screen removable. Mine pops out. Then i have access to any thing behind the screen wall.

That would be great if it was just me needing access. But, I'm trying to account for that 1 in a million chance that a breaker trips when I'm not around and my wife needs to access the panel.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Hinge the top of the screen then all you would have to do is lift it up and use a support to hold it up while you gain access.

Hinge the screen along the top. Secure it on the bottom with a few dabs of Velcro (not too much) Get a piece of metal conduit. Cut it to the exact height you want the front edge of the screen to be held up. Put rubber slip on bumpers on both ends. Cut a recessed hole in the center of the back of the bottom screen frame.

So you lift it up and pop the pole in the hole and on the carpet. You might be able to store the pole on the floor behind the screen wall so you always know where it is.

It sounds so simple when you guys lay it out like that. It certainly wasn't clear how to do this as I stood there spinning my gears. I will give this a shot. Thank you, now I have a plan.

I actually had a great idea last night but I hadn't had a chance to think it through yet. I was unloading baseball gear from the minivan when it dawned on me that he van's liftgate was the concept I'd had in mind. When you open the liftgate, it stays up until you pull it down and latch it. Something like that would be waaay cool for a screen but likely overkill since you'd only use it once in a great while. I don't have a firm grasp on the technicals (like the type of hinge is needed) but still, I like the idea. What do you think?

Thanks for the help. It is very much appreciated.

Hinge the screen on the left that way it wont take any strength or coordination to have your wife move it when you are not home

If there is concern about weight, you may be able to adapt some of the lift supports that are used on minivans and hatchbacks to assist with the lifting of the screen.

Some of these come off the shelf with threaded or eyelet style ends that could be fabricated for use with brackets.
If you look at the manufacturers website at:
http://www.avmind.com/std_lift_support.asp
You can see that they even list the stroke length and force of the lift support. A little bit of math and you could probably come up with a relatively easy solution.

Note that if is *required* that you lift it vertically this may work. I honestly think it may be simpler in your case to hinge from the side.

My initial reaction would be to put the hinge on the side of the screen so it swings away and not up...just seems to be the easy route to me.

If you are interested in the screen swinging up and staying there it actually wouldn't be that difficult. You can buy pnumatic springs, like what are holding the trunk of your van up, for fairly low prices. I'd say you could do it under $100 easy.

Just shows how long these builds take

I know Logan has this issue too.

Pretty funny how these things get connected.

I actually had a great idea last night but I hadn't had a chance to think it through yet. I was unloading baseball gear from the minivan when it dawned on me that he van's liftgate was the concept I'd had in mind.

I actually considered this until I realized that due to the size of my soffit, I just don't think my screen will go that wide. That left me the question of how to handle covering the panel. Then I got some great front wall design help here and the hinged column came out of that.

I had heard something about the panel needing to be VISIBLE in case of fire. The firemen need to SEE the panel. So I would DEFINITELY get your final BEFORE hiding it. If it's a hinged cover hiding the panel, the wife should know where it is and how to open it. It really shouldn't be that difficult. Of course one look at the outsde of the house and it should be fairly obvious where the feed enters and where the panel should be.

I would take some measurements if you are going to hinge from the side. That thing will swing out into the room a lot further to the side then it will swinging up. I guess if the room is completely empty between the front row and the screen you may have room, but personally, I would go up.

Good luck! Looks like you've got a pretty good start.

If you are going to use an AT screen most of them can be seen through if you shine a light behind them. So if you are a moderate electrical whiz you could figure out how to get a light to come on shining on the the electrical panel both in case the fire alarm goes off and in case of a power failure.

I would rethink the width of your screen. I would reduce it to get at least 1.5 ft on each side from the sidewalls. Then build removeable black GOM covered frames on each side for access to the panels and sump.

With your current screen plan, you are going to get significant reflections back onto the screen from your sidewalls and your soffit. Yes, even if you paint them flat black.

If you side hinge a 120"d scope screen, you are going to get a lot of sag at the other end, and a lot of stress on the side hinges when you open er up.

You should also put 2 corner mounted floor to ceiling bass traps in before you close it up.

That's a great idea, Big. You can pickup lights that plug in to an outlet and when the power shuts off they auto turn on - that would be a good idea for this.

I have also second guessed myself in regards to the screen swinging from the side...the width of your screen is significant. It would swing out quite far into the room - also like one poster said, it will put a lot of strain on the hinge. If you get a strong enough hinge it wouldn't be too big a worry - you would have to frame the back of the screen so you could stretch support out into about a third of the width, I would guess.

Go with the hydraulic, it's cooler. ;)

Personally I wouldn't much worry about the final inspection. I know the inspector for our city is not very particular at all.

For what it is worth, most local codes require 24 inches of clearance in front of and to the sides of an electrical access panel.

...but what they don't know won't hurt 'em. :)

For what it is worth, most local codes require 24 inches of clearance in front of and to the sides of an electrical access panel.

...but what they don't know won't hurt 'em. :)
He said his wall is 39" from the box.

PS: My room is EXACTLY the same, except I'm not limited by the wall there on the right. So I'll have walk behind side access and a removable/hinged screen.

For what it is worth, most local codes require 24 inches of clearance in front of and to the sides of an electrical access panel.

...but what they don't know won't hurt 'em. :)

...actually, it's the NEC that mandates that. from my Code Complete Electrical book, Section 110.26A (2005) states "Front working clearance min 30in wide and 36in deep" and 240.24A (2005) states "No OCPD's readily accessible".

Not making a judgment about whether you meet code, but just putting code out there.

I'd definitely recommend getting the minimum done so that you can pass final inspection before building a stage and riser (that's how I did it too).

CJ

Why not just build some end walls and run a 2x4" on the bottom of the soffit and one on the stage, then cover then in GOM or velvet? Then build the AT screen/center panel to fit into the established opening. The AT screen/center panel could use an L shaped outer frame to slide into the opening. Six mechanical fastners, discretely done, would secure the screen panel in place.

Battery powered emergency lighting would provide lighting if the electricity went off. http://www.prolighting.com/smds.html And in a real emergency, the screen would provide little restance to a fireman getting at the electrical panel.

Wow. Thanks for all of the responses and suggestions. I'm just a little surprised by the volume. There are some very good ideas here. I've been out all day coaching a soccer tournament and baseball games, dodging raindrops and even managed to throw in a run to the dump. But, no time in the HT...I need to get my priorities straight!:D

Where to begin?

I continue to prefer a top hinged solution to a side hinged one. The "minivan liftgate" solution seems like it would take quite a bit of "cyphering" to get right compared to the top hinged method mentioned by several posters so far. Combined with the emergency lighting suggestions, either method sounds like a good solution. In either case, the recommendation to wait until after final inspections to build the screen wall seems like the best approach. Guam's comment about our local inspector is consistent with my personal interaction with him. It's very likely that I'm much more concerned about this than I should be. I do plan to build the riser and stage before final inspections, though, as both need carpet.

My screen size isn't set, but it is highly unlikely I'll be comforable (ok, satisfied) with a much smaller screen. The sidewall reflection could be a problem, but I plan to make acoustic panels to reduce the glare (similar to the difference in shawnwalters room in going from flat black paint to GOM black walls. The scree width is doable based on the riser height calculator and the seating distance calculators.

After a good night's sleep, I plan to noodle on this some more.

Thanks for all of the help.

I'm reviving this thread (over three months after the last post) because I'm actually ready to build my screen wall. I've planned out a couple of options for framing but I have some doubts about the strength of my preferred option. I'd like some feedback to sure up my plan before I get started.

Each plan shows the framing, my very frustrating pillar/column and a 110" wide scope screen. All framing would be attached to the bottom of the drywall & plywood soffit and into the stage. In each plan, the closed screen will be supported by "cleats" attached to the side framing.

Here is my preferred plan. I'd like to hinge the screen at the top and not have any framing showing through the AT screen (hoping to highlight the speakers behind the screen for some ohs and ahs). But will the top framing be strong enough?
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/screenwallsupport5.png

Here is my more robust plan for the top hinge screen.
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/screenwallsupport3.png

Here is my plan for hinging the screen from the right side. I get the clean look behind the screen that I want, but I'm not sure how strong the hinges would be over such a long span.
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/screenwallsupport.png

Here is an example of my plan for the cleat supports. I PM'ed the poster but have not yet heard back.
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/IMG_0160.jpg

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/IMG_0158.jpg

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/IMG_0156.jpg

Kind of a long post, but to filter it down, I'm interested in feedback on the framing strength and if you would do something different given my stated goals and limited carpentry skills.

Thanks for any feedback.

I stand by original recommendation to hinge it along the top. Just do a drop down construction secured on the ceiling and you can avoid any uprights behind the screen for the "Sandman light up the background wow factor".

Thanks Big,

I also prefer the top hinged recommendation. But, I thought the framing looked at little weak without uprights when I drew it in Sketchup. The screen I'm now planning will weigh 33 pounds so I wanted a second set of eyes on my plan before I started cutting (I mean measuring then cutting). Thanks for the help.

The side hinged plan was just in case someone with more carpentry experience looked at my top hinged plan and said, "No way will that hold a screen up without uprights!"

I would think some framing like this with GOM covered panels attached with Velcro to the front of the frame and the screen on hinges. Paint the framing black. I don't see the need to double up those two vertical studs. Need to think about the top so that the screen doesn't bind on the GOM frames. The screen may need to sit in front of the GOM.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/bigmouthindc/screenwallsupportbig.jpg

It looks to me like your column on the right side is 10" from the wall, correct? You said before that you built it 3" too big. In which direction? I am wondering if you could squeeze between the wall and the column. If so you could make a removable panel for that opening and not worry about making any of your screen wall movable. Your screen wall could then go roughly have way across the front of the column and the removable panel could handle the remainder of the opening.

Thanks Big - good point about the top GOM panel

Thanks In2Photos - with that username, maybe you could tell me how to photograph the lighting in my room - my latest build pics are blurry and all but useless.

I did consider sliding past the pillar or just having a removable panel below the screen. Either would be fine I guess (although it's not entirely clear to me that I can easily slip through a 10" space:)). A couple of things I considered when deciding I want the screen to open:

-It will be far easier to deal with service/changing and general sump pump issues without having to squeeze through tight spaces. Perhaps I'm being a bit overly cautious here as we haven't had any major sump issues, but the pump runs frequently.

-I want the breaker panel easily accessible for us and, when we eventually sell the house, the prospective buyers and their inspectors.

Thanks for the help.

You can bet that as soon as you make it less accessible something will happen...

Thanks Big - good point about the top GOM panel

Thanks In2Photos - with that username, maybe you could tell me how to photograph the lighting in my room - my latest build pics are blurry and all but useless.

I did consider sliding past the pillar or just having a removable panel below the screen. Either would be fine I guess (although it's not entirely clear to me that I can easily slip through a 10" space:)). A couple of things I considered when deciding I want the screen to open:

-It will be far easier to deal with service/changing and general sump pump issues without having to squeeze through tight spaces. Perhaps I'm being a bit overly cautious here as we haven't had any major sump issues, but the pump runs frequently.

-I want the breaker panel easily accessible for us and, when we eventually sell the house, the prospective buyers and their inspectors.

Thanks for the help.
Yes I could help you with your photos. This is a very brief example of what you could do. As with Home Theater you can go simple or get very complex! ;)

The easiest way to stop a blurry photo is with a tripod. Inside the house there is typically not enough light for the camera to use a shutter speed fast enough to stop the motion in your hands/body. A tripod is much more stable (even the $20 ones at the drug store). Use the timer function or a remote as well. This is the easiest way to combat that problem and much cheaper than buying a bunch of lights.

You can bet that as soon as you make it less accessible something will happen...

Here is a pic from when I started my build back in October. I'd just returned from a business trip, opened the door to the future HT and...Can anyone guess what the problem was here:
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/DSC01733.jpg
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Turned out to be very minor. Hardly an issue compared to the water challenges others have face. But, it did serve as a gentle reminder that all of my screenwall/stage planning would have to include ease of access to this area.
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/DSC01738.jpg

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/DSC01736.jpg

Sometimes subtle reminders are well worth it. Reminds me of the cracks I found in my foundation just as I was getting ready to start rocking.

My brother had a similar problem with his check valve, one of the clamps got loose and every time it ran it sprayed. Maybe it's time I covered mine somehow.

I DON'T see a backup in there. I HIGHLY recommend it.

I DON'T see a backup in there. I HIGHLY recommend it.

Yeah, this is a great recommendation.:cool:

That 'warning shot' leak caused me to take action. The current pics are in my build thread.

Currently:

-I replaced the pump after three years (even though it worked fine - I'll keep it as an emergency spare)
-Added a backup pump above the primary
-Added a battery backup for power to both
-Added a water alarm
-Rerouted the pvc so the check valve is down below.

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/DSC01880.jpg

I may have gone a bit overboard:D but I feel better about it now. I need to be mindful of quick access, but the fact remains that if that water alarm starts chirping, I think I'll be in big trouble because I don't know if I can change to the spare fast enough. Talk about pressure:o...

-Added a battery backup for power to both


I'd think a standard sump pump would drain that battery in fast fashion, I'd use the battery backup just for the backup pump. At least that's how I did mine.

Good point. Now, I'm not sure how I have it set up. I'll check it out when I get home.

Thanks.

OK, this is a little odd - hoping someone can explain it to me. I was checking my email and noticed a post in this thread asking why I picked this end of the room instead of the other. I thought it was odd that I missed the post because I ALWAYS check the threads hoping for responses. Shocked, I jumped on AVS to respond. But, the post isn't here. What happened to it? Anybody know?

At any rate, I picked this end of the room because the entry to the utility room takes up about 1/3 of the wall at the other end. I had sketchups and all but it just didn't fit. Then, I had guam over to take a look at the space and he suggested the current orientation. That was two votes for the current orientation plus blind faith that I could figure out the screen wall. Nothing like have a plan.

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/HTRoom5designedpic.jpg

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/HTRoom5designflip2.jpg

Vcook - you were right, only the backup is wired to the battery - good catch.

The user probably just deleted his post.

CJ

Of course. Probably should have been able to figure that out by myself:p

I replaced the pump after three years (even though it worked fine - I'll keep it as an emergency spare)

This is an EXCELLENT idea as well. When my pump failed last year, I called a neighbor in the handyman business first to see if he had a generator because the power was out (fortunatley for only about 10 minutes) and I didn't know that the pump had failed. He came down with TWO spares, both fitted with garden hose adapters so we were able to just place them in the standing water and start pumping VERY quickly.

The only change I'll make when I get around to this is to get the largest fitting I can find to fit some larger diameter tubing. The garden hoses just weren't pumping fast enough. As soon as the 1.5" pvc got connected to the new pump, the water drained in about 10-15 minutes.

There are some post in this thread about a flip up screen that might be of interest posts 12-20 or so (the rest of the thread is good too):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=13969098&postcount=17

dc,

Thanks for the link. I remember that thread from a bit ago. I'll go back and take another look.

I posted this in my HT build thread and decided to post it here as well to update the screen wall progress. I hope I don't kill all the interest in my build thread with the double post.

- We finished our minimalist screen wall framing
- I think I have a plan for hinging my screen

After lots of input in this thread, I decided to build this plan:
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/screenwallsupport6-1.png

I picked up some 2x4’s and screws (why do I continue to buy screws – I probably have enough to build an entire house) and assembled the pieces. Here they are in the paint shop just before a coat of Model T black by my wife and daughter.
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/DSC02590.jpg

After a little time with a level and some string, I got this. Do you think there is enough room for me to slip by – I may have to turn sideways and think skinny.
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/DSC02594.jpg

I decided to forgo the middle support pieces as the framing is significantly sturdier than I thought it would be. I performed a number of tug and lean tests to determine if the framing could support a 33 lb screen. I didn’t do a Ted White “hanging by hat channel” test, but I’d guess the collective framing will easily support ~100+ lbs or so.

So, now, I’ve narrowed my hinged screen design to two choices. The first uses hinged wooden framing to support the screen with both supported by lift supports when needed. This will work (I think) but the framing support will add weight and push the screen an inch or so away from the false wall.
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/screenwallsupport6seymour1.png

After reviewing the DIY hinged screen link provided by dc_pilgrim, I decided I could hinge the screen directly to the false wall to save weight and minimize screen protrusion. I’d planned to build a screen after seeing guam’s DIY work, but I’ve recently become smitten with Seymour AV’s new fixed frame screen. The challenge here is figuring out how to attach the hinges and lift supports to the aluminum frame.
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/screenwallsupport6seymour2.png

I think I’m fairly close to a successful plan either way. What do you guys think?

Getting closer…..

I would highly suggest you go to your local auto parts store and look at their selection of lift supports. Specifically you want to look at where the ends connect to the vehicle. Everything else in between can be adjusted. Once you choose what style of ends you need, then you should be able to work with the counter person to get the right length and pressure for lift effort.

I suspect the easiest end to use would be one like the PC-1175 shown on this page:
http://www.avmind.com/connectors.asp#PS30
This would give you a ball and socket joint and then a stud end to mount to some angle iron with a hole in it.

The PS-180 end shown on that page may also work. You could probably make it work with a through bolt and locknut since you are only really moving the screen in one direction.

Hope that helps.

-Rick
-Edit: P.S. I used to work at an auto part store for several years and have seen even more unusual applications of lift supports than this. I have speced out lift supports for customers before, so if you need any help, feel free to let me know.

Rick,

Thanks for the info and help. Your link is difficult for me to interpret, but you make a good point about the mounting hardware being key. It is one of the reasons I continue to hold onto the wooden frame support as an alternative. From this link http://www.lstechnologies.ca/hardware.html it appears connecting to wood would be comparably straight forward. But, an extruded aluminum frame?...not so much for me. I didn't think the autoparts store would be a good place for assistance because of the non-auto nature of my quest, but based on your post, I'll consider stopping by for a look and a chat.

How would I go about spec'ing the lift supports? I see they come in all sorts of dimensions.

Thanks.

My vision was for a piece of angle iron (1"x1") mounted to the wood frame with wood screws and then use the angle iron to mount the lift support to. All you should have to do is drill a hole through the angle iron, insert the lift support and put a nut on the end.

As for specing it out, you may want to try and do that near the end of the process. Essentially what you will need to know is the force required to lift the screen *at the point you want to lift it from*.

The important part here is if you are lifting a 4' screen at 1' from the hinges, it will take more force than if you are lifting that same screen 3' from the hinges. This is what will determine all of the other dimensions of the lift support.

When the screen is down the lift support should be all the way collapsed. As the screen raises the lift support will extend. Your next question will become, do you need the screen to lift to a horizontal position, above that or below that. From there you can figure the mounting locations out by doing some math on the triangle the lift support creates with the screen in the up position.

If it would help, I may be able to draw a diagram for you...

-Rick

A diagram of your vision would be extremely helpful, if you wouldn't mind, thanks.

Makes sense to wait until I have this figured out before spec'ing. But, for reference, the entire screen dimensions are 53.4" x 116.6". I plan to mount the hinges at approximately 1/3 the width or about 40" from each end. I'd like the screen to raise to a horizontal position. As for weight, I'm not sure of the total but the screen itself will weigh 33 lbs and I guessed the wooden support frame would weigh nearly as much for a total of 60-65 lbs.

Thanks for the help.

Forgive my poor microsoft paint skills please.

All of these images are of the right side of your screen (defined when you are in front of and looking at the screen.)

The first image is if you were looking down on your screen wall from above. (Imagine laying on the floor above your screen wall looking straight down and the floor was clear.)

Second image is looking in a similar position at your screen frame. Notice that the angle iron on the false wall has the vertical portion towards the middle of the screen. The angle iron on the screen frame has the vertical portion towards the outside of the screen.

The third image i tried to give you an idea of mounting as if you were standing in front of and looking at the screen.

Hope that helps.

Sorry I am at work right now and dont have a way to host the pictures instead of attaching them.

-Rick

Rick

I grabbed your pics so everyone could see what you drew. These pics are very helpful and worth sharing, imo.

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/attachment.jpg

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/attachment-1.jpg

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/attachment-2.jpg

Because of my pillar, I'd have to use the outside of the existing framing but I see what your vision is. If my math is correct (I need to dbl chk) I should have access to about 1" - 1.5" of screen frame on each side of the falsewall framing for attaching lifts.

Thanks again for the pics.

kjlewie

Please don’t laugh too loudly. As I was cutting the support frame for my intended premade fixed frame screen, it occurred to me that I’m making this screen wall build far too complicated – as has been suggested by others here. I finally get it!:D After mitering the lumber, I realized I had the pieces to build a DIY screen similar to the link on Seymour’s website. The lift supports could easily attach to that and eliminate my added weight and protrusion concerns. Darn, I feel so slow.:o Talk about tunnel vision. Sometimes it takes a little longer to see the simple solution. Feel free to laugh amongst yourselves.

So, here is where I stand now. I need to spend some time trying to figure out how to attach the screen material to a wooden DIY frame with grommets/eyelets. If I’m successful, I’ll order the screen material with the grommets as it looks like a snap to install with good tension. If not, I’ll order just the screen material and use the staple method.

Hey buddy…can you spare some velvet?:cool:

I checked Autozone for lifts, but all of theirs had too much force for my needs. The clerk was concerned that the more forceful lifts would rip through my hinge. I didn't quite understand his point? I didn't realize lifts held so much latent energy?

I was able to locate some support lifts at a local RV dealer that may be what I need. I also picked up some angled ball brackets for attaching each end of the lifts.

The supports have a force equivalent of 35lbs.
The extended length is 17.13" and the stroke is 6.3"

Would someone explain to me how I figure out the height at which I want to mount the lifts in order to support the screen at a horizontal position?

The RV parts guy told me I could return the lifts if they didn't work out, so I took a chance that I could make these dimensions work.

Thanks.

Let me see what I can do. I have a lot of stuff going on at work today, but I will try to get back to you this afternoon.

Well, here are the precise figures I came up with. I will try to get you the explanation of how it all owrks tomorrow.

Distance From your hinge point to the lift support mount on the wall framing should be 5.41995 inches.

Distance from the hinge point to the lift support mount on the screen frame should be 16.24995 inches.

This should give you an extended length of 17.13 inches (our target lift support extended length.)

If you have to fudge it a little bit, you can go with 5 3/8" from hinge to mount and 16 13/64" from hinge to screen mount. This may actually wind up getting you a little above vertical at full lift, but you should still be able to close it all the way.

Fi you can get it that close you can always fine tune it by elongating the holes and it should work fine.

Hope that helps.
I will try to post some diagrams and possibly an excel spreadsheet on how I figured it all out tomorrow. I have some meetings to attend, but I think I can squeeze it in.

-Rick

Thanks Rick,

Very helpful but, not surprisingly, I doubt I'm interpreting the figures correctly.

It's very likely that I'm thinking about this the wrong way, but I'd expected to mount the lift to the wall framing at a lower point than where the lift mounted to the screen frame. Seems like the extended lift would be pointing more sideways than up? I'm quite interesting in learning a little more about how this works.

Thanks again for the help. Hopefully, I can finish up my DIY screen and give this a shot over then next few days.

I have attached a .zip file with an excel spreadsheet in it that performs all the calculations. All you have to do is enter the extended length and the stroke of the lift support and it will give you the mount points relative to the hinge.

kjlewie:
A few things to remember:
1) when the screeen is up we want the lift support all the way extended. Since the lift support naturally pushes out, this will help hold the screen up.
2) When the screen is down we want the lift support all the way collapsed. Since the lift support is all the way collapsed, we want it mounted such that the body of the lift support is on the support wall, lift support pointed down, and the rod end of the lift support attached to the screen. Since the lift support is still trying to extend, but has nowhere to go, it holds the screen closed.

The trick to all this becomes being able to allow the right length from the hinge to the mount on the screen frame in order to accomodate the collapsed lift support when the screen is closed and still give it enough room to extend and hold the screen up straight.

Hope that helps you understand.
If you need some more illustrations, I will see what I can do.

-Rick

I have attached another illustration that will hopefully be helpful in understanding the mechanics of it all.

Its not a precision engineering drawing, but I think it gets the point across.

Hope it helps.

I am going to try and get it to display here to:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=149988&d=1250189307

-Rick

good looking build so far man! very good info. on the backup sump pumps too.
I may have missed it, but why did you paint all your base plates on the wall frames? thanks

Rick,

Thanks a ton for help and explanation. A picture really can be worth a thousand words. The green arc really helps me see your point. Didn't realize the lifts will hold the screen closed as well - that's pretty cool.

I finished my DIY screen last night (had to reinforce a couple of weak spots) which was more challenging than I had anticipated. I'll detail the screen build in my HT build thread. I plan to install the hinges and lifts tonight. I'll report over the weekend with pics.

Dradius,

Thanks. If your question is referring to the black painted framing, I painted it a dark color to prevent any reflections from lighter surfaces. I didn't want anything with a lighter shade behind the screen to possibly reflect pj light.

The only calculations I didn't do, were the moment force calculations to try and predict the actual force needed to hold the screen up at the intended point. Those engineering books are still packed in boxes since our recent move, and I don't use them frequently enough to remember off the top of my head.

Point being, you may need to swap cylinders with something that has a stronger (or weaker maybe?) lift force. I believe however that a lot of those lift supports are standard length and stroke and then change your force.

Rick

thanks for the reply. I was actually talking about the studs and base plates that seem to be painted a teal/blue/green color in post #34. just curious if it was for water protection or what :)

Well, I was very excited last night as I began my screen install. The lift support install did not go as planned. I made a couple of critical mistakes that I believe compromised the chances for success.

After successfully installing my top-hinged DIY screen, I carefully measured and marked my contact points for the lifts. I installed the brackets and noticed the screen mounted brackets contacting the wall framing. I took my hammer and chisel and chipped away some of the wall framing upright.

I installed the lifts on the wall framing and as I reached up to install the first lift on the screen framing, I realized the brackets were mounted incorrectly. The screen brackets were mounted at the height the wall brackets should have been mounted and vice versa. No problem, I'll just switch them around. But wait, I'd just chipped away some of the wood, so I had to mount the wall bracket about 1.5" from the face of the stud.

When I finally had the lifts mounted, they worked perfectly. But, my DIY frame is not robust enough. Despite adding bracing and support, the top middle of the frame (between the hinges) bowed sharply. Something was off. I tried to close the frame and when one side would close the other would bend up from the bottom.

At first, I thought the lifts were too powerful. But, now, I think the 1x3 DIY frame is too weak across the span? Chris from Seymour expressed concerns about the screen framing and he was right. I disconnected the lifts from the screen and left them hanging from the wall framing for now. I still think the lift idea can work, but with a more robust frame and more careful craftsmanship. Rick's work was strong and should have yielded a quality result. I screwed this up in more ways than I can count. I was totally deflated last night.

My screen is still in good condition, so I'm going to just lift it by hand for now. If, when I change (upgrade) screens to something with stronger framing, I think I may try to locate some lifts with different dimensions than the ones I have currently so I can change the bracket support points and give it another go.

I don't have any pics of the bowing and bending of the screen frame as I wanted to alleviate the pressure quickly. The few pics I have just show bits and pieces of the install. I may upload them later.

Rick, thanks for the lift info in this thread. Hopefully, someone will benefit from it all if they decide to give it a shot.

I am kind of wondering,

Did you just use two hinge points on the screen frame?
Something like this may require a piaono hinge type of setup in order to alleviate some of the strain. That would at least help keep the frame parrallel at the hinge point. I understand of course though, that the more hinges you have, the harder they are to align, and that is why I would suggest a piano hinge setup for a screen like this.

One may also have to consider if they could live with one small vertical member in the middle of the screen. Using three lift supports of lesser force distributed across the frame may lead to better success. Of course this kind of hampers the advantages of the AT screen in the first place, so I don't know.

You are correct though, a 100+" span is going to be tough to keep rigid.

-Rick

Rick,

Actually, yes, I am using two hinge points on the frame. I think you are correct that a piano hinge would be very helpful for maintaining a parallel frame. All of that work to build that screen, then to see it bow and twist - I quickly disconnected the lifts. Haven't moved that fast in a long time.

I considered a third lift, but decided against it for the reason you cite. If one were to combine the piano hinge with a more rigid frame, my gut is the two lifts would perform as planned. The combination of the wooden DIY frame, two hinges and poor decisions by me led to this flame out.

I was really bummed on Friday because I was expecting this to work and hoping this thread would be a solid contribution to the forum. So much of my build has come from the contributions of others that I was pumped at the thought of contributing something back. Maybe a little too pumped. I guess it is sort of a contribution because, as my son said, "At least, now, you know what not to do.":p

I feel much better now as I bounced back with a solid couple of days in the HT this weekend, though. I'll post the update in my build thread.

Thanks.

Well, two very good points in that post.
1) learning from mistakes is just as important as learning from your sucesses.

2) the ultimate goal of all this work is to be able to enjoy our theatres.

I am glad you got to enjoy your theatre and hope you have plenty more time to enjoy it as time goes on.

-Rick

Could you simply brace the screen from the rear, using aluminum angle iron?

Hey Kj. don't give up you might just need to refine your approach. Can you post some pics of what you have done? Let's see the screen front and back along with your wall.

Can't say for sure without seeing it first but I'm thinking that you can add some 2X4 or 2x3 bracing vertically at the edges of your screen (painted black of course) and actually attaching your lifts to that vs. the frame of the screen. I don't know if your trying to highlight your speakers behind your screen but if you do it right it can look like an inside border.

Well, maybe we did have some people watching this thread afterall.
Maybe we can find something to work for you.
Post some pictures and lets see what we can do.

-Rick

Could you simply brace the screen from the rear, using aluminum angle iron?
This would be my recommendation as well. It will add lots of strength without much weight.
Well, maybe we did have some people watching this thread afterall.
Maybe we can find something to work for you.
Post some pictures and lets see what we can do.

-Rick

Yes, pics please.

And as Oman mentioned, painted in a flat black.

I'm sure there's lots of people watching the thread, looking for a way to maximise the screen real estate in a tight room.

Hey Guys,

The lift supports are still attached to the wall framing in their intended position so I can snap some pics when I get home. I'll snap the screen front and back, the hinges and the supports. I built the proscenium so the lift supports can be added afterwards, so if we figure this out, I still may do it.

Thanks

I snapped a handful of pics to show the screen and screen wall.

This first pic shows the screen wall framing for reference
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/DSC02591.jpg

Here is the screen being held open by my son. With the top fabric panels in place, the screen does not raise to fully vertical – even though I cut an angle in the face of the top panels to provide more space for the screen. Plenty of room for access though
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/DSC02671.jpg

Here is a shot of one of the top hinges from behind the screen
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/DSC02673.jpg

Here is a pic from behind the screen of the lift support still attached to the framing on the pillar side
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/DSC02674.jpg

Here is the lift support attached on the opposite side
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/DSC02679.jpg

Here is a shot of the right side of the screen from behind the screen
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/DSC02678.jpg

Here is a shot of the left side of the screen from behind the screen
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/DSC02677.jpg

Here is a close up of the left side to show were the lift support bracket was
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/DSC02675.jpg

This last pic shows the clearance that I have for the lift support to operate with the side screen wall piece in place
http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq21/kjlewie/DSC02676.jpg

I can snap more pics but I think these give a good look at the screen area.

What if the hinges were located at either end of the top -- i.e. directly above the lifts -- do you think this would this help prevent the "twisting" that you found?

Sorry guys, I have to bow out for a while. I didn't want to leave you hanging, and I wanted to try and see this through to the end, but my wife and I are due to deliver our second daughter some time today.

Good luck and I will check back in a couple of days to see if you made any progress.

-Rick

Congratulations Rick.

You're not leaving us hanging at all. We'll get it figured out at some point. I need to go back and find Big's post about the support pole to hold up the screen as I'm leaning that way for this screen frame. My son thinks thats the way I should have gone from the beginning. I think he just wants me to finish so he can watch movies.

Thanks for all of the help and advice and good luck today.

David,

I suspect that you're correct that moving the hinges would help the twisting. But, I'm in a odd place where I like the screen and screen wall as it is currently done and I'm not sure I want to move the hinges. And, access is easy. I need to support the screen with something, but access is easy enough with no twisting when lifting by hand. But, I also like the concept of having the screen stay up when accessed. I'm starting to think of the lift supported screen as Screen 2.0 for some future upgrade (yes, I'm planning an upgrade and I haven't finished HT 1.0 yet).

Still, I'd like to refine the concept in case someone else gives it a shot before I do.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Looking at your pictures I would agree that adding the angle iron would be a good way to approach it because it should allow you to keep the hardware where it's at. The lift should probaly be mounted to part of the angle iron that would go towards the back wall.

The other option that I proposed with vertical 2x3's would force you to place the hardware on the other side of the framing I believe. With the 2X3's on the inside part of the screen, screwed flat to the top and bottom of your frame this should be plenty strong for the lift arms. You can attach velvet from the stud to the back of the border so that nothing show thru if you goes this way.

Good luck, keep us posted.