Hi Guys,

I really need some expert help please. I am very worried the design of the room is going to ruin the performance of the system.

My post is here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1140392


THANKS FOR THE HELP!!!

I don't usually visit that section so I'll reply here rather than miss further postings there.

I'm sure you need acoustic treatment, and electronic room "correction" is no substitute. There are various attractive panels you can buy, but they're still intrusive because bass traps and other treatment need to be large to work. This is physics. With acoustic treatment you can have:

* Attractive
* Effective
* Affordable

Pick any two. :D

There are many pros on this forum who can help you with this including yours truly.

--Ethan

I don't usually visit that section so I'll reply here rather than miss further postings there.

I'm sure you need acoustic treatment, and electronic room "correction" is no substitute. There are various attractive panels you can buy, but they're still intrusive because bass traps and other treatment need to be large to work. This is physics. With acoustic treatment you can have:

* Attractive
* Effective
* Affordable

Pick any two. :D

There are many pros on this forum who can help you with this including yours truly.

--Ethan

Can you provide some images of very discrete or attractive acoustic treatmnets. This is going to be an uphill with the wife :rolleyes:

www.erskine-group.com/portfolio.php
See any acoustic treatments?
Now that I've been cutsy with you, acoustic treatments can be easily hidden or concealed with proper planning.

www.erskine-group.com/portfolio.php
See any acoustic treatments?
Now that I've been cutsy with you, acoustic treatments can be easily hidden or concealed with proper planning.

Very Impressive!

The room has been totally stripped out and is in bare form at the moment. I guess this is right time to design it right.

The difficulty is that I have marble floor and concrete ceiling and this can not be changed. My wife will certainly give me hell over placing things on the ceiling or all over the walls.

Let me provide some attachments to help with things

Attachment 1 - Proposed Layout of Room

Attachment 2 - 3D Render

If budget is a concern, I would consider spending a little less on equipment a take that and spend it on acoustics and or atleast a design from Dennis or Ethan. People like me that have a dedicated room, it's easy for me to implement my own treatments with linacoustic on the wall covered in gom, false front walls etc. But in normal rooms, especially with a concrete ceiling and a marble floor and spending that much on equipment, I would consult with a pro..

What do they say? Something like a bad room can make $100k speakers sound bad ;)

Very Impressive!

The room has been totally stripped out and is in bare form at the moment. I guess this is right time to design it right.

The difficulty is that I have marble floor and concrete ceiling and this can not be changed. My wife will certainly give me hell over placing things on the ceiling or all over the walls.

If you look at some of the show me threads that are pinned at the top of this forum there are some elegant solutions to acoustics that have huge aesthetic appeal. Dont underestimate what your wife may find attractive ... show her some of the completed theaters and take it from there ... and as Shawn said maybe even get one of the resident experts to help design the room with you

So..maybe that's the real question. Are you looking for a room design solution or an after-the-fact acoustic treatment solution? Not that they can't work together in the same room, but it'll help us answer specific questions if you know which way you're planning to go.

Frank

Farris,
Spend some money on acoustics which is very important. Next read this article.
http://www.hemagazine.com/node/Cinepro_Mighty_speakers by Brent Butterworth.

I now own this Mighty system powered by a Cinepro 3k6 Mk4 amplifier after auditioning the system at The Stereophile Show in NY a couple of years ago. I have auditioned at least 50 Theater systems. What I found was a lack of dynamics and the ability to play at reference levels while maintaining audiophile quality. You can spend much more and get much less. I know I have spent many times the price only to be disappointed when trying to approach Dolby Digital Reference Levels. While many systems can play well at moderate levels they FALL far from reaching intended reference levels. Audition this for yourself and don't get caught up in the hype. Many sales people sell what they can make the most amount of money on. Now I can watch movies the way they were intended to. Extremely Happy. You will understand what I am talking about if you audition a Cinepro Mighty System. Don't be fooled by their size they can easily handle 800-1000watts. Try that with another bookshelf speaker. I am now adding to my system a second Cinepro amplifier, second Cinepro Sub & and another pair of surrounds. Build wisely and you will have a better system than most professional are recommending.
Ed

Don't be fooled by their size they can easily handle 800-1000watts.

Don’t get hung up on power ratings, a 1000w speaker is only twice as loud (db) then a 100w one, plus who wants to listen to stuff like this on an ongoing basis anyway? Also powerful speakers are not so powerful if they are inefficient

Don’t compromise with the room, buy the wife something nice to shut her up and get Dennis to do the room for you....seriously if you're spending that kind of money on gear get the room right......

Ceiling - cover the whole thing in GOM and put treatments in where necessary, you'll never know its there.

Floor....erh, just hire someone, otherwise you'll have a Ferrari of a system that would be dragged by a geriatric with a walking frame

Don’t get hung up on power ratings, a 1000w speaker is only twice as loud (db) then a 100w one, plus who wants to listen to stuff like this on an ongoing basis anyway?
I think you need to recheck your math on this one.

I agree with Dennis, recheck your math. You must double your power or you must increase the efficiency of your speakers by 3db to play twice as loud. Many great smooth sounding speakers can not handle this type of power or Headroom.
The room must be done right otherwise the best sounding system will sound just OK. Dennis is the man for this. He could make any system sound nice, but there is NO dancing around a TRUE Reference System. It is extremely difficult to explain to someone who hasn't listened to a system that can easily play reference levels WITHOUT being HARSH, BRIGHT and DISTORTED. Playing LOUD is not my intended message and can not be properly understood if you have never Experienced and system that has tremendous power and tremendous headroom enabling the system to properly reproduce everything that is recorded on the recorded source material.

A system with lower powered amplifier and Horn Loaded speaker can reach higher SPL's yet sacrificing sound quality and premature ear fatigue. So someone who listens or demos this type of system quickly gets discouraged and will often decrease their listening levels do to the system inherent issues. I strongly recommend that you audition a Cinepro System Mighty or otherwise and you will begin to understand "Enjoyable Reference Level" listening levels. Believe me many AV “professionals” are selling systems that just don’t perform at all levels. It is like buying a Ferrari that can only do a 90 mph, you might not want always want to do a 160 but it nice to know that you can without Blowing up the car. It is hard to begin to understand what I am saying if you have never driven above 120 mph.

Don’t compromise with the room, buy the wife something nice to shut her up and get Dennis to do the room for you....seriously if you're spending that kind of money on gear get the room right......

I agree...you don't want to put top notch gear in a room that's crap.

Frank

You must double your power or you must increase the efficiency of your speakers by 3db to play twice as loud.

You're both right. While 3 dB is twice as much power, it doesn't sound twice as loud. I'm not sure 10 dB is needed to sound twice as loud though. Maybe 6 to 8 dB or so?

--Ethan