Just happened to be in the Future Shop here in Toronto (same company as Best Buy) and they just got their 50" C1 series set up, next to a Samsung LCD series '550'. I must say, although I'm holding out for the S1 series (they said they'll have it displayed within the next couple of weeks), the C1 was a huge disappointment. I set both the Samsung and the Panny to 'standard' display modes, and although I expected the Panny to be dimmer (which it was), what really surprised me was the black levels. They were awful! The Panasonic's blacks looked at best to be dark grey, whereas the Samsung's in relation looks nice and dark. Anyone else seen this on a C1, and can confirm or deny if the S1 has the same effect?

I was at a local store recently where they had a 50" C1 right below last years 50" A550. The C1 definitely wasn't as crisp with the colours and the blacks, but keep in mind that the 550 is much better (ie more expensive) TV than the C1.

This year's models of Panasonics seem to have really jumped in price (at least here in Canada). The PZ80 in 50" sold here for about $2,000 last year but it's replacement, the S1 is going to be over $2,000 for sure. Haven't seen one yet though.

the C1 was a huge disappointment. I set both the Samsung and the Panny to 'standard' display modes, and although I expected the Panny to be dimmer (which it was), what really surprised me was the black levels. They were awful! The Panasonic's blacks looked at best to be dark grey.You do realize that the C1 is a god-awful bottom-of the-barrel entry-level model with the lowest contrast ratio spec of the bunch - a claimed 15,000:1, which is the same as last year's entry level PX80U.

Panasonic is tarnishing it's good name with this C1 junker :D

Don't forget the LCD uses a jet black finish on the screen. While the plasma has a grey colored screen. On a well lit environment it is hard to see the blacks since what you see is mostly the finish from the screen.

Just happened to be in the Future Shop here in Toronto (same company as Best Buy) and they just got their 50" C1 series set up, next to a Samsung LCD series '550'. I must say, although I'm holding out for the S1 series (they said they'll have it displayed within the next couple of weeks), the C1 was a huge disappointment. I set both the Samsung and the Panny to 'standard' display modes, and although I expected the Panny to be dimmer (which it was), what really surprised me was the black levels. They were awful! The Panasonic's blacks looked at best to be dark grey, whereas the Samsung's in relation looks nice and dark. Anyone else seen this on a C1, and can confirm or deny if the S1 has the same effect?

Seems a little optimistic of you to expect an entry level plasma, even a new Panasonic to compete black level to black level against a decent LCD like the 550.
Subjectively, I could detect a superior black level from the S1 over the C1, but it didn't seem like an extreme difference.
BTW BB has the 42S1's already in TO, if you guys are interested.

C1 is below the X1. Doesn't seem to be a reason to get a C1 unless to save 100 bucks. sub-1000 dollar 50" plasma at a retail store, I wouldn't expect to be blown away against an lcd.

You do realize that the C1 is a god-awful bottom-of the-barrel entry-level model with the lowest contrast ratio spec of the bunch - a claimed 15,000:1, which is the same as last year's entry level PX80U.

Panasonic is tarnishing it's good name with this C1 junker :D

Is it really that terrible? or just bad relative to better displays?
The black levels didn't alarm me, they seemed within the expected range for an entry level set. What did alarm me was that I "thought" I saw some artifacts that I attributed to processing. My terminology might not be correct. Some false contouring, and loss of detail in fast motion scenes, almost like an intermittent noise. Of course, this stuff could also be attributable to a poor signal.

Is it really that terrible? or just bad relative to better displays?
The black levels didn't alarm me, they seemed within the expected range for an entry level set. What did alarm me was that I "thought" I saw some artifacts that I attributed to processing. My terminology might not be correct. Some false contouring, and loss of detail in fast motion scenes, almost like an intermittent noise. Of course, this stuff could also be attributable to a poor signal.

The display isn't "terrible", it's just unnecessary, in the eyes of most Panasonic owners. My complaint, and I would guess Randy W feels the same way, is that Panasonic has too many models. The most objectionable and questionable omission on this display is the AR filter. The other features don't really matter that much, no game mode, 1 less HDMI input.

You have to realize that the advertised contrast ratios on ALL displays(all brands) are pure fiction. They are simply marketing tools. The panel on this display is a 12th gen panel. It just doesn't make much sense to do all this for a $100 less and add another tv in the lineup.

Just happened to be in the Future Shop here in Toronto (same company as Best Buy) and they just got their 50" C1 series set up, next to a Samsung LCD series '550'. I must say, although I'm holding out for the S1 series (they said they'll have it displayed within the next couple of weeks), the C1 was a huge disappointment. I set both the Samsung and the Panny to 'standard' display modes, and although I expected the Panny to be dimmer (which it was), what really surprised me was the black levels. They were awful! The Panasonic's blacks looked at best to be dark grey, whereas the Samsung's in relation looks nice and dark. Anyone else seen this on a C1, and can confirm or deny if the S1 has the same effect?

The U1 is Panasonics entry level 720p model. It is not surprising that the black levels look worse at Best Buy compared to the lcd next to it. Samsung uses a jet black filter while plasma blacks look grayer with light shining on them. Get them home and turn the lights off and the plasma blacks will look better than the lcd.

Setting the Panny to "standard" mode is one of the worst things you can do. That is the default dim mode to comply with energy star ratings. A better comparison would be to set it to Cinema or Custom. So basically, you set it on it's worst picture setting, watched it in a bright store and came up with the conclusion that it looked terrible. That wasn't surprising....

That being said, unless you can pick up the 50" model for like $600 I don't see the point in it.

Thanks all. To respond to all your great feedback:

- Idiotcanuck - which BB has the S1? The one in Markham didn't as of a week ago, but I'll have to recheck this weekend.
- stindawg - I actually tried Cinema mode too but it seemed dimmer than 'standard' :)
- The store was definitely very bright, and the LCD's blacks were definitely nice and black compared to the C1's (and there was still plenty of detail in the blacks..) so I guess it's probably due to the store lighting. I'll be checking a better specialty store before making any decisions..
- I saw some artifacts too, but also saw the same ones on the LCD, so I chalked that one up to the content (or possibly, though unlikely? common processing limitation/bug).

Thanks again!

Idiotcanuck - which BB has the S1? The one in Markham didn't as of a week ago, but I'll have to recheck this weekend.
-

As of three days ago, every one that I've been in, has both 42C1 and S1.
For sure Downsview, Eglinton/Warden, Laird and Burlington.
Leons had them also.

You do realize that the C1 is a god-awful bottom-of the-barrel entry-level model with the lowest contrast ratio spec of the bunch - a claimed 15,000:1, which is the same as last year's entry level PX80U.

Seeing as contrast ratios are basically fiction, and the PX80 was never considered to be a bad TV (quite the opposite for the price - most owners, including me, are extremely satisfied), is the C1 (or X1 for that matter) a step up or down from the PX80? I would think it would be cheaper for Panasonic to maintain the status quo rather than redesign an entry-level model... then again, if they did something onerous and threw in a cheaper power supply or other downgrades that show up on screen, they would be shooting themselves in the foot when it came to being competitive on the showroom floor.

There are a few PX80's still available in Canada, at lower prices than the C1/X1's - thanks to the lower value of the Canadian dollar recently, prices are a little higher than expected for the new models.

Specsmanship aside, it is apparent to many that the X1's contrast ratio is not greater than the PX80.

The PX80 has analog audio out, which has become an endangered species in 2009.

The PX80 is a hard act to follow. Apparently Panasonic felt they needed two new models to cover it.

Specsmanship aside, it is apparent to many that the X1's contrast ratio is not greater than the PX80.


D-Nice measured the X1 contrast higher than the PX80, for what it's worth.

I was planning on getting the much acclaimed 42pz85u--but they're getting scarce (at least in-store), and I'm thinking of going for one of the new ones, if the price jump's not too bad. Which model would be the natural successor in the new line?

I was planning on getting the much acclaimed 42pz85u--but they're getting scarce (at least in-store), and I'm thinking of going for one of the new ones, if the price jump's not too bad. Which model would be the natural successor in the new line?

Do you live in Canada? The G-10 series replaces the 85 series in the new Panasonic lineup.

Did this thread time travel from January or something?

Did this thread time travel from January or something?

wtf???

The Panasonic's blacks looked at best to be dark grey, whereas the Samsung's in relation looks nice and dark. Anyone else seen this on a C1, and can confirm or deny if the S1 has the same effect?

Can't speak about the S1, but I've had the C1 set up at home for roughly two weeks now and am quite happy with it so far. Room its in is dark for the most part so lack of the AR filter hasn't been an issue. As others have pointed out, I would caution about forming an opinion on the basis of this set's performance in a big box store environment, and in general, when using the "standard" mode -- we typically have it set on "custom" or "cinema", depending on the content, with much improved results.

@RandyWalters: On what basis are you assigning such harsh words to this model? Have you actually seen it? It's a 12G panel after all and we all know not to drink the manufacturer's "claimed" contrast ratio Kool-Aid.

D-Nice measured the X1 contrast higher than the PX80, for what it's worth.You keep saying that.

Give us a link, please.

It's a 12G panel after all and we all know not to drink the manufacturer's "claimed" contrast ratio Kool-Aid.

Dont get the panel confused with the new neo panels that some of the new pannys have. I dont have one either since I bought the X1.

Nice to see a happy owner of this set, what did you end up getting it for?

does anybody know when canada is going to be getting the X1? I thought they would be available right away and I wanted AR filter:(

Do you live in Canada? The G-10 series replaces the 85 series in the new Panasonic lineup.

I'm not in Canada; this just seemed like a decent thread to raise the question :)

It seemed like the G10 might succeed the 80U, with the G15 succeeding the 85U, but I'm not really sure.