Samsung PN**B450 Picture Settings [Text View] - Page 5

shibez

04-07-10, 05:27 AM

after 4 monthes here new settings:

modemovie
warm2
cell light:9
contrast:74
brightness:52(hdmi) 48(tnt sd/hd+ scart) 56(component)
color:43(hdmi,tnt,scart) 41(component)
sharpness 4(hdmi),14(tnt+scart) 24(component)
tint:g48/r52
dynamic contrast: off
white settings:
r offset:25
g offset:25
b offset:24
red gain:31
green gain:25
blue gain:29
flesh tone:0
gamma: 0
color space: auto
edge enhancement:off
size:16/9
digital noise: off
éco mode: off
movie mode: auto

these settings look fantastic...i tried tons of settings for the movie mode option but eventually always ended up going back to standard...Now movie mode is FINALLY acceptable.

P.S I switched just last night also to component over HDMI for my dig. cable box and it's so ironic that you gave these settings with component numbers included...thanks!

face21

04-07-10, 06:32 AM

these settings look fantastic...i tried tons of settings for the movie mode option but eventually always ended up going back to standard...Now movie mode is FINALLY acceptable.

P.S I switched just last night also to component over HDMI for my dig. cable box and it's so ironic that you gave these settings with component numbers included...thanks!

thanks!:)

EE_engineer

04-07-10, 01:39 PM

The problem most of you are having is because the primary color setpoints which are set at the factory are WRONG!.. The white balance settings you have (try turning down COLOR to "37" )may help a lot... but flesh tones will still be going to move around from a green tinge to a slight magenta depending upon the actual flesh tone required at the time. The TINT control won't help. This is not because its a cheap entry level set... its because its set wrong at the factory.

I have reported this to the actual Samsung technical department (the ones the field service people call when they can't fix a set and will hopefully forward the report to the Engineering dept. and let me know). The regular customer service people are just hired off the street (call center) and unfortunately, the field service repair people can only swap out boards... that's their (believe me I've been an Engineer long enough to know the difference) level of training (the use of a screwdriver, regardless of what they may tell you).

I have also noticed a strange response of the Brightness control... maybe someone can verify the same behavior on your set... In a dark room, with no picture (blank screen) and the Brightness setting of about 52-56, note the background level of panel illumination HDMI input source (what we call a raster level). Now decrease the brightness to below 45, does the screen suddenly darken to the level where it looks like the set is turned off (wait till all the adjustment and menu items have been removed --- blank screen) ? If you advance the brightness above 51 in steps, does the background level increase every 2-3 counts in step changes. If it does.... Samsung has done some strange programing (maybe its just my set).

Also with a brightness level of about 55 (the correct value for a calibrated set, with contrast set(80) to produce the proper illumination of about 30ftL at 100% signal), and with no signal present, does the background level look pretty much about the same as seen on LCD type display... cause Plasma should be a lot darker!

Thanks for your help in advance. If you guys need some help or settings, let me known, although each set is going to be a little different, but hopefully not that much. I have limited the calibrations to just the HDMI inputs at this time.

spon

04-07-10, 10:52 PM

Thanks for your help in advance. If you guys need some help or settings, let me known, although each set is going to be a little different, but hopefully not that much. I have limited the calibrations to just the HDMI inputs at this time.

I would love if you could post your settings. I've tried every set of settings posted in this thread over the past 6 months and I just can't find any that look right.

Also, I see that many settings list the HDMI Black Level. I do have that setting but it's "grayed out" and not something that I can change. Am I missing something?

Thanks

moziwozi

04-08-10, 10:02 AM

I too am finally happy with some Movie mode settings, I've been on Dallows' Standard settings for quite a while. Face21's movie settings look great so far, I've had the set about 8 months now.

EE_engineer

04-08-10, 12:12 PM

The color settings on this set will never look right because the factory set the wrong internal adjusts during manufacture! You can get the picture better, but it will never be right until the internal settings are corrected, something I'm trying Samsung to do, but don't hold your breath.

To set color balance properly, you need test equipment, however you can get close using a B&W picture. With a B&W picture on the screen, look at the very dark areas of the image. Any color contamination in the dark areas can be removed with the appropriate color "OFFSET" control. If you find the dark areas appear a little green, as an example, decrease the setting of the GREEN OFFSET. The offset controls effect the dark areas of the picture. When you are satisfied with the dark areas, turn your attention to the bright areas, the color "GAIN" controls are used to correct any contamination in the bright areas, just as the OFFSET did for the dark areas. You may need to go back and forth a couple of times as the two adjustments do interact with each other.

As for my settings, they are as follows, and produce an as close to a "technically correct" setting as my set is capable of, but remember, you may have to tweak these a little for your taste and set. These settings won't make the picture "pop" but they should produce a more natural looking image. The peak illumination with these settings is about 30ftL (a reference level), which might be a little bright for a really dim room, if so, turn BOTH the contrast and brightness down a bit, Face21's levels for brightness and contrast seem about right for those levels.

MODE: MOVIE, CELL: 8, CONTRAST 79, BRIGHT: 55, SHARP: 20, COLOR:37, TINT: 37G/63R

WHITE BAL: RED(off): 32, GREEN(off): 28, BLUE(off): 20
RED(gain): 44, GREEN(gain): 29, BLUE(gain): 37

COLOR TEMP: WARM-2, GAMMA: +1, COLOR SPACE: AUTO All other picture enhancements OFF!

If you find the black levels a little too light for you taste, you may set the GAMMA to 0, however you will be losing some dark detail with the colors appearing more saturated. You may want to check the white balance against a B&W picture, to see if it needs a little tweaking, since these settings are adjusted to balance my set.

As for menu items that are grayed out, that is because these settings are not applicable or meaningful, with the current inputs or settings of the set. For instance, HDMI black levels refers to RGB signal coding (mostly from video game equipment) , however, your current signal is xyY coded (most likely from a DVD player) , making an RGB adjust both impossible and meaningless (that's why its grayed out).

25BSFCP

04-09-10, 02:42 AM

dogukan

04-09-10, 12:06 PM

EE_engineer

04-09-10, 01:13 PM

if u check my posting here:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1217990&highlight=

even though this is the pn50a450
look at the green in the pics i attached, is this what you are talking about "green tinge in fleshtones" (well in first pic at least) just wondering if a450 has this problem as well.

btw, i think i have the same set as you pn50b450 with build date of feb. 2010 from Mexico (replacement from samsung who could not repair or admit to exact defect for a450). good luck with samsung customer service runaround machine, maddening to say the least but i suppose you are starting to experience that already, hope i don't need to go down this path again.:eek:

Yes I think its the same problem... I thought the "A" model had a color management system to correct for this... guess not. As I said before, the problem is the green primary. After talking with the real Samsung tech support, their only guess was maybe, and it was a guess, that the main board might have a problem. I set up to have the board replaced.

I was set-up with AT&T tech repair. A guy calls me up who is going to do the repair and describes himself as a computer consultant...? He works out of his house, has no formal degree in computers, or anything else... Has no idea how a TV works, no service manual, not even a voltmeter! He tells me he has been trained and certified by Samsung. Yea right... Samsumg has taught him how to use a screwdriver, swap a circuit board, and not hurt himself in the process. If fact, he tells me how he determines if the set is working right.... his answer.... if it turns on!!! After we "spoke" a while, he decided not to take the call:confused: I wonder why?

Anyway, it got transferred to another "service company". I am awaiting for the board replacement.... I'll really be surprised if the this fixes the problem... my guess is that my set will hopefully work the same, but probably worse, since any power supply voltage adjustments required (when the board is replaced) will either not be made, or adjusted on a cheap, out of calibration (if even capable of calibration) Radio Shack meter! What a poor excuse of "service", and what a poor, could care less company Samsung is. By the way, the computer consultant service guy said he also had a contract with Panasonic and Vizio. Its really scary out there.

BTW: yes same built date and production location. Very disappointed with the black levels.

EE_engineer

04-09-10, 01:18 PM

guys i just got Samsung PNB450. i was applying settings here but something seems wrong. i have cable service from dish network. i made hd settings from reciever like hrc 1080i and 16:9.. and i use hdmi cable to connect it to plasma.is that right? and tv seems like a little bit dark. i wasnt expected that. and i cannot change hdmi black level when im watching tv.but when i turn on ps3 it allows me to do change hdmi black level. what should i do? thank you

As for menu items that are grayed out, that is because these settings are not applicable or meaningful, with the current inputs or settings of the set. For instance, HDMI black levels refers to RGB signal coding (mostly from video game equipment like a PS3 system) , however, your current signal is xyY coded (most likely from a DVD player or (cable box)) , making an RGB adjust both impossible and meaningless (that's why its grayed out).

You might want to set GAMMA to +1, to see if that helps.

dogukan

04-09-10, 01:53 PM

thank you

EE_engineer

04-09-10, 02:33 PM

thank you

You are welcome:)

dallows

04-09-10, 06:17 PM

EE_engineer

04-09-10, 07:22 PM

If I call someone nuts do I get banned or something?

I sure hope you weren't referring to me? Being educated, having engineering degrees, being knowledgeable and experienced, and expecting a product to work properly or trying to help other people... does that make someone a nut? You sure show a lot of class... or lack of it, especially for a senior member. I thought this forum was a bit more professional than that... but I guess one would have to be a professional to know that.

FYI: The engineering department did get in touch with me concerning this issue to my surprise, and there may well be some incorrect coefficients in their programming.

dallows

04-09-10, 10:17 PM

I sure hope you weren't referring to me? Being educated, having engineering degrees, being knowledgeable and experienced, and expecting a product to work properly or trying to help other people... does that make someone a nut? You sure show a lot of class... or lack of it, especially for a senior member. I thought this forum was a bit more professional than that... but I guess one would have to be a professional to know that.

FYI: The engineering department did get in touch with me concerning this issue to my surprise, and there may well be some incorrect coefficients in their programming.

Why haven't you posted any data to backup your claims?

stir fry a lot

04-10-10, 09:58 AM

25BSFCP

04-10-10, 04:05 PM

I got two problems. I've had he TV for about six months now. I noticed yesterday that I have some burn in. It's probably from watching too much 4:3 content since my daughter watches Nick Jr. about 28 hours a day on it. I had previously dismissed it as image retention but I turned it on this morning and the 4:3 bars are still there. My second problem is that my settings keep reverting back to Dynamic which is why the burn probably happened in the first place. I also just found this out this morning after noticing it happen a few times last night.

Is there any way to get rid of the burn-in or at least reduce it? I was thinking about photoshopping a jpeg of a screen with white bars on the sides with a black screen in the middle in a 4:3 ratio. Would his work? What are the measurements that I should make so everything lines up?

Also, does anyone have any idea why my picture settings are no saving and it keeps reverting back to dynamic? Its doing this everytime I turn off the tv.

edit: It looks as though all picture settings are reverting back to default in each mode. Am I missing "save" button or something? I just did a factory reset and now everytime I turn it off/on it is reverting to standard with all its settings at default. Also, is there any chance that I could get my tv replaced/repaired within Samsung's warranty if its due to a manufacturer's defect with it defaulting to dynamic?

It is not in shop mode.

OK, so it looks like I solved it by changing my HDMI input to HDMI 2 instead of 1. This burn is really pissing me off though. Everytime something in 4:3 comes on my blood pressure goes up. Does anyone know if my jpeg idea would work or if Samsung would cover this?

well, not sure if you tried this already but in picture options choose the scrolling function and leave it on for an hour and this is supposed to eliminate after images. i used this function after i did an initial scan of my cable channels which felt like forever (i think it was over 45 minutes) and the on screen display of the progress for the channels found was still there in the background, so after running the scrolling function for an hour and then watching some varied content for a while everything was ok. i mean these samsung engineers created a somewhat translucent on-screen main menu for this set to prevent IR so i don't know why they didn't make all the on-screen functions translucent, especially the one function they knew would be displayed on screen the longest.:(

but i know what you mean when you have 4:3 content, letterboxing, tickers, CNN's garrish logo on too long you start getting anxious.:eek:

stir fry a lot

04-11-10, 01:19 AM

Yeah, I left the scroll on for about an hour today and its still there. Can I just make a pure 1280x720 white rectangle with photoshop and run it for a few hours? Is this a correct white field? How long should I run it for? I also read turning the tv off for a few days would help but I don't think I can go for that long without it.

shibez

04-11-10, 01:37 AM

best advice i can give to reduce screen burn in is 1. when first buying tv do the recommended 150hour break in period...

2. after that if you watch it in standard mode never put cell light above 4.

3. never use the dynamic mode

4. if watching a 4:3 ratio program stretch the image either with the digital cable/sat. remote or the sammy remote.

if you follow these rules you shouldnt have to worry about burn in...even if you watch a channel with a static image/logo on it..because as more time goes by the chances of burn in are greatly diminished.

IF you think you have burn in already...use the scrolling burn in protection feature in the tv for up to 5 hours. if tried this already put the tv on a broadcast channel with no signal...(I.E STATIC) and just leave it on for as long as the tv needs for the burn in to go away. Remember leaving the tv on is NOT bad...when i first got mine i pretty much left it on 24/7 for about a week ...When i was done watching tv i would just goto the cartoon network and zoom it until the logo went away and left it on.

face21

04-11-10, 02:51 AM

i noticed something:

when i put for the tint: g46/r54 i must put for the blue gain: 30(otherwise if i put like i do now:29,the picture is lifeless) when i put the tint like i do actually:g48/r52,i must put for the blue gain:29. strange!

Homii

04-11-10, 02:48 PM

EE_engineer...... I have a b550 but I have the same problem. I found if I use native color space rather than auto, it helps the color/tint balance on the DVE test patterns.

face21

04-12-10, 05:08 AM

stereo55

04-12-10, 10:16 AM

EE_engineer

04-12-10, 12:52 PM

EE_engineer...... I have a b550 but I have the same problem. I found if I use native color space rather than auto, it helps the color/tint balance on the DVE test patterns.

I tried both the AUTO and NATIVE, and didn't notice any difference. It is my understanding that most if not all standard or Blue Ray discs use 8-bit coding (256 different levels, for each of the primary color, for a total of 256X256X256, or 16,777,216 different shades colors) The actual plasma panel in the set, uses 10-bit coding (1024 different levels of each primary color, for a total of 1024X1024X1024 or 1,073,741,824 different shades colors. The difference would make for a smoother looking color with more shade variation, but shouldn't have any effect on hue or tint. What I have measured is that the basic green primary color is not the right shade of green and too intense.

EE_engineer

04-12-10, 12:59 PM

Curious ... anyone have thier zoom 1 and 2 feature work on thier 42" B450 ? Mine is greyed out in the tv menu (and does nothing from the remote button) . The manuel refers to this as a working option .

I believe the ZOOM 1, 2 work only when displaying a 4X3 aspect ratio screen, or at least it does on the 50 inch model.

stereo55

04-12-10, 01:08 PM

I believe the ZOOM 1, 2 work only when displaying a 4X3 aspect ratio screen, or at least it does on the 50 inch model.

As I never use my 4:3 , this would explain it . Thx for the reply ;)

EE_engineer

04-12-10, 01:11 PM

i try settings in standard mode (for hd contents) here my settings:
standard mode
normal
cell light:3
contrast:80
brightness:45
color:60
sharpness 30
tint:g50/r50
dynamic contrast: off
white balance:
r offsett:24
green offsett:25
blue offsett:23
red gain:28
green gain:23
blue gain:27
flesh tone:0
gamma: 0
space color:auto
all off
it's simply wonderfull
already in movie mode it was super but here the hd contents are well here! i don't try with the dynamic mode because according to me,this mode is far from a good picture also we do use color temp with the dynamic mode the cool temp and it's not good!

It would appear with a BRIGHTNESS setting of 45, you are loosing a lot of black detail, while gaining some very nice looking deep black levels. Also, with a COLOR setting of 60, you should have overly saturated color. The colors should look very intense and deep. Unless, your set is a lot different from mine, the setting should result in a picture that is far from reference, however, picture perception is very personal, and if you find you enjoy these settings, than there is nothing wrong with setting them to your liking, that's why they are adjustable..... enjoy!

mac4ps

04-12-10, 02:28 PM

Hey, my first post. My tv is the PS50B430 (european model) Here are my settings after calibration with HCFR and DTP-94. I use the service menu because it is easier and I have more options (CMS) and it allows to make your settings as default at least for the movie mode.

Before make any change in service menu write down default settings.

Enter Service Menu: with the TV in stantby press in the remote control INFO + MENU + MUTE and then press the power button.

Highlight ADVANCED and then press 0 0 0 0

Then you go to WB Movie and set MODE to ON to activate. Now everything you set is the default mode for movie.

My settings are:

WB MOVIE

Mode - ON
Color Mode - Movie
Color Tone - Warm 2
MSub Brigh - 128
MSub Contr - 128
W2_RGAIN - 121
W2_BGAIN - 90
W2-ROFFS - 86
W2-BOFFS - 67
MOVIE CONTR - 86
MOVIE BRIGH - 48
MOVIE COLOR - 48
MOVIE SHARP - 0
MOVIE TINT - 50
MOVIE BKLIGHT - 10
M. GAMMA - 0,93
M. SUBGAMMA - 0

Now you press RETURN and go back to previous menu. Then you must go to COLOR SPACE. This is the CMS. These are my settings;

COLOR SPACE

RED SAT - 0x12
RED HUE - 0x23
GREEN SAT - 0x13
GREEN HUE - 0x3F
BLUE SAT - 0x1B
BLUE HUE - 0x49
CYAN SAT - 0x07
CYAN HUE - 0x18
MAGENTA SAT - 0x19
MAGENTA HUE - 0x1E
YELLOW SAT - 0x0C
YELLOW HUE - 0x0B

FWC BLUE 0x0F
FWC RED 0x0F

By the way if anybody knows what is FWC please post it.

These are my results:

Greyscale:

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/196/cal0701.jpg

Gamma:

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3077/cal0702.jpg

RGB Levels:

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7572/cal0703.jpg

CIE Chart (rec709)

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/4364/cal0704.jpg

Best :)

EE_engineer

04-12-10, 03:16 PM

mac4ps

04-12-10, 03:50 PM

Very impressive! Sure wish the PN50B450 had a CMS, it sure would save a lot of time and grief with this set. I think Samsung exports a better product for the European markets. I noticed your green primary still looks a little over saturated but hue looks good, did you have any problems with greenish flesh tones before calibration? My set still shows a 40% error with Cyan (x: 0.215, y: 0.392 Delta E: 40.9) and Green (x: 0.270, y:0.644, Delta E: 19.4). I am not very happy with the performance or service from Samsung!

The PS50B430 does not have a CMS on the user menu. It is only in the Advanced section of SERVICE MENU.

Yes, green is a little off and it is impossible to make it any better but the set actually looks pretty good with excellent skin tones and pretty good greens on forests and so. Before calibration overall color was way off but I would say it was on the orange side.

EE_engineer

04-12-10, 04:00 PM

The PS50B430 does not have a CMS on the user menu. It is only in the Advanced section of SERVICE MENU.

Yes, green is a little off and it is impossible to make it any better but the set actually looks pretty good with excellent skin tones and pretty good greens on forests and so. Before calibration overall color was way off but I would say it was on the orange side.

I was told by Samsung Technical people that the B450 didn't have a CMS available in either the user or service menus, so I didn't go poking around looking for one.... maybe they were wrong (as with most things I have found:mad:) and there is one. Sure would make me a happy camper if there was one there all along.

dogukan

04-12-10, 05:31 PM

how do you guys access PN50B450 service menu? i couldnt do it.

Homii

04-12-10, 05:46 PM

If its the same as the 5 series press mute 1, 8, 2 then power while the tv is off.

dogukan

04-12-10, 05:52 PM

i tried that but it didnt work.

Homii

04-12-10, 10:18 PM

I was told by Samsung Technical people that the B450 didn't have a CMS available in either the user or service menus, so I didn't go poking around looking for one.... maybe they were wrong (as with most things I have found:mad:) and there is one. Sure would make me a happy camper if there was one there all along.

I just checked and I can confirm that there IS a color management option in the service menu:)

kanpol

04-12-10, 11:28 PM

EE Engineer, how ya doing. I have the 42b450 was reading your post tried your settings and in my opinion they were quite good. I was using steromandans settings which were similar to yours. Anyhows if you go into your service menu then scroll to advanced and hit 0000 you may have to keep doing it till it lets you in. You will find a somewhat of a cms. Its based on hex numbers I believe and was told it dosent work very well but it is there, so if you want to give it a try maybe it will help.

face21

04-13-10, 12:50 AM

mac4ps

04-13-10, 02:07 AM

hi mac4ps. But what is your settings after going on the menu service?

My settings are the ones from the service menu that I have posted. After you set te movie mode to ON on the SERVICE MENU - ADVANCED - WB MOVIE they are the default settings for Movie on the User Menu. You do not need to change anything on the user menu except for Dark Level for HDMI that you should set to LOW.

If you want to change settings of the WB Offset, WB Gain and CMS you should do it with a sensor like DTP-94, EYE ONE, etc and a software like HCFR, Calman, etc... You have a guide here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536

sonic_blue

04-13-10, 02:27 AM

My settings are the ones from the service menu that I have posted. After you set te movie mode to ON on the SERVICE MENU - ADVANCED - WB MOVIE they are the default settings for Movie on the User Menu. You do not need to change anything on the user menu except for Dark Level for HDMI that you should set to LOW.

If you want to change settings of the WB Offset, WB Gain and CMS you should do it with a sensor like DTP-94, EYE ONE, etc and a software like HCFR, Calman, etc... You have a guide here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536

mac4ps, how accurate is the colour luminance once calibrated? Can luminance be adjusted for each colour in the service menu?

Cheers

edit: also, if you don't mind me asking, what was preventing you from lowering the green saturation?

sonic_blue

04-13-10, 06:30 AM

Also, how are you finding the black level on the 50B430? Were you able to measure it and if so could you share the result?

Thanks

dogukan

04-13-10, 11:47 AM

mac4ps

04-13-10, 11:48 AM

mac4ps, how accurate is the colour luminance once calibrated? Can luminance be adjusted for each colour in the service menu?

No. You don't have control of luminance for each color on the service menu CMS. Green luminance is over by 16% and Cyan is also over by 10% (these are estimates as I don't have here at this moment the exact numbers)

Cheers

edit: also, if you don't mind me asking, what was preventing you from lowering the green saturation? One of the reasons, maybe the principal one, is that I don't have control of luminance for each color as I have said before.

Best :)

mac4ps

04-13-10, 11:52 AM

Also, how are you finding the black level on the 50B430? Were you able to measure it and if so could you share the result?

Thanks

I think the black level is very good although not excellent: 0.09 cd/m2 or 0.026 ftl

Best:)

dogukan

04-13-10, 12:40 PM

mac4ps do we have to change settings for each input? i mean i tried when i was playing staion 3..it didnt come out well..do you have different calibration settings for ps3? or for hdmi input? thanks

mac4ps

04-13-10, 02:00 PM

mac4ps do we have to change settings for each input? i mean i tried when i was playing staion 3..it didnt come out well..do you have different calibration settings for ps3? or for hdmi input? thanks

I have the same calibration for all inputs but I use the ps3 mainly for playing blurays because I don'tt play games often. I think that MAYBE you could have different calibrations for each inputs making that changes in the service menu this way: you have calibrated in the service menu for hdmi and we call that calibration A, and then you change the input with your remote control to TV. Then you change, for example, Brightness, and so, you have a different calibration that we call B. I think that then you will have a movie mode for hdmi with brigtness A and a movie mode for TV with brightness B. But I have not tested it.

Best :)

sonic_blue

04-13-10, 06:54 PM

Thanks for the replies mac4ps, your information is extremely valuable!

Ok, so the colour luminance is over by 10-16% for green and cyan. I wonder though if you could lower the Colour control in the user menu to reduce it? Or would that make the other colours too low in luminance?

Black level seems decent. At least it is better than my panasonic after rise (0.14cdm2) :)

My only remaining worry is as dogukan has mentioned, being able to set the CMS separately for each video input. Have you found any way to achieve that? It is quite important to me that I have all my equipment producing nice colours.

TaichiKid

04-13-10, 07:04 PM

dogukan

04-14-10, 10:33 AM

thanks for your answers mac4ps. my only consideration right now is play station 3. because i tried couple things and i can tell that best picture for play station 3 i got that in standart mode.game mode off.if you guys ask why i explain it. because when tv is in movie mode its really dark and colours seems dark to me.. actually i play fifa 10 and it seem really dark in movie mode. best result i got is in standart mode, cell light 10 and normal colour.if you do warm 1 or 2 its going to be dark. i set black level as low and i did my rgb level limited. so guys if you all have any color settings for play station gaming please share so we can try..thanks a lot

Devo13

04-14-10, 04:28 PM

In the final evaluation of settings (i have a n/a model)....how does the excellent work of the previous authors translate into settings, using the normal menu that comes with the b450.....

kanpol

04-15-10, 12:32 AM

EE_engineer

04-15-10, 01:52 AM

Mac4ps, got a quick question for you. In the user menu what color space do you set it on AUTO or NATIVE. Also for white balance did you just leave it at default of 25? I worte all my colorspace settings down and then switched them to yours, also the GAINS and OFFS. Just wasnt sure bout the user menu settings for white balance and colorspace.

The setting should be AUTO. There is no reason to set the color space larger than what is available and referenced via DVD's or over the air TV. I remember reading somewhere here the same question asked and answered by a Samsung tech who said the NATIVE settings was used during production testing.

joebloggs13

04-15-10, 07:53 AM

The setting should be AUTO. There is no reason to set the color space larger than what is available and referenced via DVD's or over the air TV. I remember reading somewhere here the same question asked and answered by a Samsung tech who said the NATIVE settings was used during production testing.

That's an interesting bit of information. So they use native in their quality control testing, after which there is no real use for the setting? I was always curious as to what that was for. Thanks EE_engineer.

jamesco411

04-15-10, 09:17 AM

That's an interesting bit of information. So they use native in their quality control testing, after which there is no real use for the setting? I was always curious as to what that was for. Thanks EE_engineer.

I've been wondering whats going on with this as well. I have a c450, but to me - it seems like the opposite is true. The native setting seems to be the more accurate colorspace whereas auto seems to expand the colorspace.

Eg: Reds / Pinks / Blues are more fluorescent in "auto" but are deeper/darker in native". I have no calibration knowledge, but I would tend to think that if native were to "expand" or exaggerate/widen the colorspace, I would think it would be making colors more fluorescent (what "auto" does) rather than deepen and darken them.

EE_engineer

04-15-10, 10:29 AM

I've been wondering whats going on with this as well. I have a c450, but to me - it seems like the opposite is true. The native setting seems to be the more accurate colorspace whereas auto seems to expand the colorspace.

Eg: Reds / Pinks / Blues are more fluorescent in "auto" but are deeper/darker in native". I have no calibration knowledge, but I would tend to think that if native were to "expand" or exaggerate/widen the colorspace, I would think it would be making colors more fluorescent (what "auto" does) rather than deepen and darken them.

Why put items on a user menu without letting or educating the user what they do? Even the Samsung help call people don't know... you would think the company gets enough calls about this to include it in the user manual... and then there is "CELL LIGHT"... that's another one. Being an engineer, it really bothers me how a company can include controls without explanation, function, or usage!!!! Again... it should be set to auto and belongs in the service menus. It serves no purpose. Its like posting a 200MPH speed limit, when all cars can only do 100MPH....just an example.

mac4ps

04-15-10, 11:07 AM

Thanks for the replies mac4ps, your information is extremely valuable!

Ok, so the colour luminance is over by 10-16% for green and cyan. I wonder though if you could lower the Colour control in the user menu to reduce it? Or would that make the other colours too low in luminance? Yes. Color control afects all the colors. If you use it to compensate for green you will have a bad Red or Blue

Black level seems decent. At least it is better than my panasonic after rise (0.14cdm2) :)

My only remaining worry is as dogukan has mentioned, being able to set the CMS separately for each video input. Have you found any way to achieve that? It is quite important to me that I have all my equipment producing nice colours. Like I have said before I think you could do it but I have not tested it.

Best :)

mac4ps

04-15-10, 11:14 AM

Hi mac4ps, thank you for your after settings!

I have often felt that for very big cos like Samsung that they achieve their economies of scales using identical manufacturing processes for video processing circuitry, and even plasma cell fabrication. If this is actually the case, then all Sammy 2009 plasmas should be reasonable similar, at the very least for a region such as Europe...

For example, the one firmware update they have issued since the 2009 B panels applied to all their plasmas.

Could you please publish your 'BEFORE' CMS settings for HUE & SAT for each of the 6 colours?

My before settings are the DEFAULT settings:

Red Sat - 0x1D
Red Hue - 0x40
Green Sat - 0x16
Green Hue - 0x40
Blue Sat - 0x16
Blue Hue - 0x40
Cyan Sat - 0x16
Cyan Hue - 0x34
Magenta Sat - 0x16
Magenta Hue - 0x40
Yellow Sat - 0x10
Yellow Hue - 0x40

FWC Blue - 0x0F
FWC Red - 0x0F

Congrats on such a nice looking calibration!Thanks!

Best :)

mac4ps

04-15-10, 11:17 AM

mac4ps

04-15-10, 11:31 AM

Mac4ps, got a quick question for you. In the user menu what color space do you set it on AUTO or NATIVE. Also for white balance did you just leave it at default of 25? I worte all my colorspace settings down and then switched them to yours, also the GAINS and OFFS. Just wasnt sure bout the user menu settings for white balance and colorspace.

My calibration, including the White Balance, is done entirely in the Service Menu. If you do it like me, forget the settings of the user menu for White Balance: they are not relevant.

Best :)

EE_engineer

04-15-10, 11:47 AM

If you have your PS3 in a HDMI input you should set your black level hdmi in NORMAL and not in LOW for playing games and the PS3 output in RGB.

Best :)

Hi ..waiting for my colorimeter back from calibration... and the time to calibrate... on the service menus, when inputting new values (hex numbers 00-FF) do you input the actual value, or to they auto advance via the remote.

FYI... I have observed a shift in brightness (meter required to detect) when white balancing when the slider adjustment is on screen, and when slider disappears and only the reference target signal is shown. It's not much of a difference, but enough to disturb the readings when you generate the white tracking curves and only the targets are presented for measurement. I had to wait till the slider disappeared for each adjustment to ensure to correct measurement during adjustment.

mac4ps

04-15-10, 01:47 PM

Hi ..waiting for my colorimeter back from calibration... and the time to calibrate... on the service menus, when inputting new values (hex numbers 00-FF) do you input the actual value, or to they auto advance via the remote. They do autoadvance

FYI... I have observed a shift in brightness (meter required to detect) when white balancing when the slider adjustment is on screen, and when slider disappears and only the reference target signal is shown. It's not much of a difference, but enough to disturb the readings when you generate the white tracking curves and only the targets are presented for measurement. I had to wait till the slider disappeared for each adjustment to ensure to correct measurement during adjustment. Service menu is a lot less intrusive when you calibrate. You will see it.

Best :)

EE_engineer

04-15-10, 02:50 PM

Best :)

I have been noticing over the last two months of usage, that the black levels have risen. I have read here that other owners are complaining of the same thing. It seems that the problems Panasonic had with their sets, and compensating for panel aging with the side effect of decreased black levels are now shared by Samsung.

Homii

04-15-10, 03:06 PM

kanpol

04-15-10, 10:53 PM

EE_engineer

04-15-10, 11:44 PM

According to this samsung "tech" native is the correct color space.

"And the answer...
by Samsung_HD_Tech - 12/23/08 12:00 PM In reply to: thx by squick3n
squick3n,

Thanks for your patience.

Auto = allows only those colors that are expected from a broadcast source.
Wide = allows whatever is on the source material.
Custom = allows you to use test patterns to more accurately tweak color and should be used in conjunction with the "White Balance" and "Flesh Tone" adjustments.

Hope that helps!"

http://forums.cnet.com/5208-13973_102-0.html?threadID=321315

I know when i'm using DVE, the native space with color and tint right in the middle is almost perfect ( still an error with green). i'm no pro though:)

I have a b550.

As I said before... the color space should be limited to the source material only

and per Samsung Tech, which is the few times I have read a correct answer to a question:

"squick3n,

I might agree with you there. Most people would wonder why we offer those in the first place, and it's for calibration purposes. There's little reason to calibrate a television outside of the broadcast spectrum, so those settings are there as a guideline for that one specific reason - NTSC broadcast calibrations.
Let me know if I can help with anything else. :)
--HDTech"

In addition for those of us with the 400 series (450) there are only two choices for color space... AUTO and NATIVE.

FYI: For broadcast and standard DVD the color space reference is D601, for HDTV and Blue Ray it is D709, which is a slightly larger color space (Blue ray's display more colors). In AUTO the TV will sense by resolution (480i = D601, 720/1080i/1080p = D709) and adjust the color space as required.

EE_engineer

04-15-10, 11:59 PM

I have the american version b450 and here are my default colorspace in the service menu

red sat-0x17
red hue-0x40
green sat-0x1a
green hue-0x40
blue sat-0x16
blue hue-0x40
cyan sat-0x17
cyan hue-0x3b
magenta sat-0x17
magenta hue-0x40
yellow sat-0x10
yellow hue-0x40
so you can see mine somewhat differs from mac4ps. I wonder if its because mine US and Mac4ps is EU?

Yes for European TV standards (PAL) are different than the NTSC, and use a different color space and references for primary and secondary colors. That's why the numbers are different.

kanpol

04-16-10, 01:05 AM

shibez

04-16-10, 05:17 AM

EE_engineer

04-16-10, 12:58 PM

thanks for the answer to my question EE engineer:) I have another question, if you dont mind. Is the calabration chart that Mac4ps has posted the same for both EU and US versions. Does EU use different reference points.

The Color Space chart (CIE 709) that Mac4ps shows is for HD and Blue Ray references... fine for US or any BLUE RAY HD sources. It's the European over the air (PAL signal format that differences occurs.

EE_engineer

04-16-10, 01:07 PM

mac4ps ...was a little skeptical at first and was nervous about messing with the service menu but I followed your directions and the end result is I Love IT :D blacks look blacker and colors look as realistic as i have seen from this tv, thanks!

Ever wonder why Samsung can't release a properly or in the ball park adjusted set. If you were to place your properly adjusted set next to an out-of-the-box set at a big box store... it would look like sh... Samsung adjusts their sets so they look good in the stores they are interested in sales... and that's ok. However, there is a HOME setting that is presented to the user the first time the set is turned on, maybe we should tell Samsung how to set-up this setting.... how could they be so far off... and not even care about the performance of their products?

Harri Patel

04-16-10, 01:58 PM

Enter Service Menu: with the TV in stantby press in the remote control INFO + MENU + MUTE and then press the power button.

i accessed service menu today.the code is INFO + MENU + MUTE and then press the power button.but you should be really quick.

I am having no luck with this. What is the trick? :confused:

Is there an actual "standby" mode (separate and distinct from on and off)? If so, how do you get into it?

Do you hit INFO, MENU and MUTE simultaneously, or sequentially? If the latter, do you press, then release, each one, or press and hold? It seems like whatever I try, either nothing happens (pressing and hold all three, then hitting POWER), or else the set just comes on normally (all other variations).

EE_engineer

04-16-10, 02:17 PM

I am having no luck with this. What is the trick? :confused:

Is there an actual "standby" mode (separate and distinct from on and off)? If so, how do you get into it?

Do you hit INFO, MENU and MUTE simultaneously, or sequentially? If the latter, do you press, then release, each one, or press and hold? It seems like whatever I try, either nothing happens (pressing and hold all three, then hitting POWER), or else the set just comes on normally (all other variations).

First turn the set OFF, wait a few seconds, then enter the keystrokes. You have to do it really FAST... one key at a time. (INFO..MENU....MUTE....PWR)

Harri Patel

04-16-10, 04:20 PM

Still had no luck with that. Then I saw that someone had suggested this:

If its the same as the 5 series press mute 1, 8, 2 then power while the tv is off.

I tried that, and the service menu came right up.

I have the 42" set; I don't know if that makes any difference. I updated the firmware once, but I think there's a newer one that I didn't install because it only addressed a problem I wasn't having.

I'm going to give mac4ps's settings a try now.

kanpol

04-16-10, 08:46 PM

Harri for US samsung TV's its mute 1 8 2 power to enter service menu. Info Menu Mute is for the EU models to enter service menu. I know it gets confusing but no worries friend:D

kanpol

04-16-10, 08:48 PM

moziwozi

04-16-10, 10:41 PM

I have actually just noticed white splotched areas on my television when it's on, HDMI port 1, through Comcast HD cable box but the box is off, leaving just a black screen. I haven't noticed any other retention or burn but tonight after HD programming, I hit all off on the remote, the tv remained on and there it was concentrated in the middle of the screen a white haze about the picture with the cable box off. I'm using scrolling now but should I be concerned? I've had the TV since August '09.

I wish I could explain it better, it's not a specific boxed or lettering image retention, although concentrated in the middle it's like a white hazy rash on the screen when on a dark screen.

TaichiKid

04-17-10, 12:06 AM

Best :)
Thank you! If my theory is correct, then the modern sets in a given region may be able to be calibrated with a 'formula' if that is possible... I come from the old days of calibrating CRT's when most of the measurements were made by eye, however.

I am from Canada, and my default colorspace is quite different, I suspect to reflect manufacturing differences for the plasma cells sent to our region for assembly.

Would you also share the BEFORE settings for the final four? Specifically

W2_RGain
W2_BGain
W2_ROffset
W2_BOffset

In the old CRT days, MSubBright was used at the lowest brightness levels to distinguish fine features...

Thanks!

TaichiKid

04-17-10, 12:10 AM

Yes for European TV standards (PAL) are different than the NTSC, and use a different color space and references for primary and secondary colors. That's why the numbers are different.
My Colourspace settings are the same, except one My Magenta has a HUE of 0x16 vs your 0x17. I am in western Canada, and my panel was from Jan 2010.

kanpol

04-17-10, 12:49 AM

My Colourspace settings are the same, except one My Magenta has a HUE of 0x16 vs your 0x17. I am in western Canada, and my panel was from Jan 2010.
Are you refering to my colorspace default(US) or Mac4ps colorspace default(EU).
My defaults are
W2_Rgain-131
W2_Bgain-91
W2_Roffsets-119
W2_Boffsets-121

EE_engineer

04-17-10, 02:29 AM

EE Engineer have you got your colorimeter back yet? Was wondering cause I've been waitinjg to see what you outcome was when using the service menu colorspace. If you dont mind when you do go in there can you let me know if we have the same default colorspace, just curious:)

I called x-rite (the manufacturer of my colorimenter) the other day to check on my meter... they're sending me a new one under warranty, latest rev level "D", mine was "B". Said it would ship on the 23rd... I'll let you know how my set calibrates when I get it. Thanks for asking.:D

EE_engineer

04-17-10, 02:36 AM

My Colourspace settings are the same, except one My Magenta has a HUE of 0x16 vs your 0x17. I am in western Canada, and my panel was from Jan 2010.

I believe Canada uses the NTSC (North American Television Standards Committee) signal format and therefore, the references should be the same. Don't know why they changed Magenta and only by one count less.:confused:

TaichiKid

04-17-10, 02:41 AM

Are you refering to my colorspace default(US) or Mac4ps colorspace default(EU).
My defaults are
W2_Rgain-131
W2_Bgain-91
W2_Roffsets-119
W2_Boffsets-121
I was referring to mac4ps's European Before settings, since he gave us the After settings.

My own default Before settings are:

Warm1 Warm2
146 135 RGain
109 92 BGain
117 106 ROffset
124 135 BOffset

TaichiKid

04-19-10, 03:25 AM

And for anyone who want to compare, here are my deault settings...

In contrast to the classic CRT calibration/s I still did a whole 4 - 5 years ago ;) today's sets have no deflection yokes, no power supplies set to approximately 31.5 KVolts, no differing crystal clocks, no discrete circuit boards, or delay lines.

The sets today are uniformly derived with phase locked loops, crystal countdown to 1/100 million, digital signal processing, zener diode based voltage supplies, uniform lead inductance & capacitance vs discrete boards.. Even plasma cells are pretty uniform.

One observation I have is that most in this forum are loath to turn on digital edge detection. I would beg to differ.

For one thing, non hi-def broadcast is still 480i in N.America, and 576i in Europe. Zoom that picture up a lot & the pix often look fuzzy.. The old edge enhancement algorithm used the trick of making any edge look like a square wave by increasing the high frequency components, increasing upper Fourier transform components, modern DSP also uses matrix edge detection based on context. The modern stuff first extrapolates whole edges using matrix based image processing before deciding something is an edge, and then unobtrusively as possible enhances only a real edge..

Give the digital edge enhancement 'ON' a try if you see a fuzzy picture.

Here are my default service settings. I would be interested in seeing others in all regions.

shibez

04-20-10, 05:40 AM

kanpol

04-20-10, 09:50 PM

my colorspace is the same as yours and my W1 and N1 is the same also. But my W2 is different, mine is
W2_R GAIN- 131
W2_B GAIN- 91
W2_R OFFSETS- 119
W2_B OFFSETS- 121

I'm just wondering why mine is different then both of yours and mine is USA(CA.)

jamesco411

04-21-10, 10:34 AM

C450 owner here, having a question about the b450 models with regards to color space of auto vs. native. I have noticed on my c450 plasma that the “auto” color space fluoresces blues and reds when compared to “native” color on OTA HD signals (haven’t tried with Blu-Ray). Eg: On the recent Cavs/Bulls NBA telecast, the red uniforms of the Bulls were much easier on the eyes and seemed much more accurate with the native setting than with “auto” setting on my c450 plasma….the reds were deeper and less “fuzzy”. To me, it would seem as though the function should be the opposite for “auto” vs. “native”, meaning that “native” should be expanding the color space beyond the source…so I started to tinker with my Samsung LCD.

When testing out my Samsung LCD, the “native” color space ends up fluorescing these reds/blues, whereas “auto” tones them down. I’m curious as to why these settings are flip-flopped in for the plasmas vs. LCDs. Can anyone test their B450 to see what these respective color spaces do to reds/blues? Test to see if there is a noticeable difference on various sources?

EE_engineer

04-21-10, 03:00 PM

C450 owner here, having a question about the b450 models with regards to color space of auto vs. native. I have noticed on my c450 plasma that the “auto” color space s blues and reds when compared to “native” color on OTA HD signals (haven’t tried with Blu-Ray). Eg: On the recent Cavs/Bulls NBA telecast, the red uniforms of the Bulls were much easier on the eyes and seemed much more accurate with the native setting than with “auto” setting on my c450 plasma….the reds were deeper and less “fuzzy”. To me, it would seem as though the function should be the opposite for “auto” vs. “native”, meaning that “native” should be expanding the color space beyond the source…so I started to tinker with my Samsung LCD.

When testing out my Samsung LCD, the “native” color space ends up fluorescing these reds/blues, whereas “auto” tones them down. I’m curious as to why these settings are flip-flopped in for the plasmas vs. LCDs. Can anyone test their B450 to see what these respective color spaces do to reds/blues? Test to see if there is a noticeable difference on various sources?

Hopefully the functions are not flipped around (although anything is possible with Samsung). The "NATIVE" setting belongs in the service menu since it should never be used for normal viewing. If the colors appear to fluoresce and/or are fuzzy, that's a good indication that the "COLOR" setting is set way too high. Try turning down the color... the color shouldn't jump out at you. Set the color level to give a natural looking flesh tone. Good luck:)

jamesco411

04-21-10, 03:19 PM

Hopefully the functions are not flipped around (although anything is possible with Samsung). The "NATIVE" setting belongs in the service menu since it should never be used for normal viewing. If the colors appear to fluoresce and/or are fuzzy, that's a good indication that the "COLOR" setting is set way too high. Try turning down the color... the color shouldn't jump out at you. Set the color level to give a natural looking flesh tone. Good luck:)

My color is at 38.....vs. the default of 50

EE_engineer

04-21-10, 06:18 PM

My color is at 38.....vs. the default of 50

The color setting of "38" seems a good in the ball park number. The only other things that come to mind are high brightness, but that would wash out the picture, or the signal itself. Sometimes broadcaster really turn up the saturation. If its a new set...I might call Samsung about it if its really gets to be a problem. As far as the color space settings, the "AUTO" mode should be set and will generate the rec601 or rec709 color space, which are the only two standards that are currently used for standard definition or high def.

TaichiKid

04-23-10, 11:51 PM

This one is driving me batty; I get a delay out of the optical audio output somewhere between 65 and 75 msecs, does anyone have a number which worked well for them? I am guessing that the delay in the video processing circuitry is uniform because it is all in one unit. :confused:

shibez

04-25-10, 09:07 PM

kanpol

04-26-10, 01:57 AM

good evening all, got a question regarding debug mode in the service menu. It has 3 choices off, smart and runtime, was wondering what is it for? It is located in advanced menu under adjust.

TaichiKid

04-27-10, 02:34 PM

i dont notice a delay when i connect my dig. cable box to my audio receiver with optical audio
I was talking about a delay out of the TV's optical audio output. I have been adjusting and find 80msecs pretty good, but not perfect.

spon

04-28-10, 09:43 PM

i accessed service menu today.the code is INFO + MENU + MUTE and then press the power button.but you should be really quick. i tried mac4ps ' s settings. actually it looks really good on samsung pn50b450. my reds was really bad and it looks really good right now.thank you guys.

Is there a trick to getting into the service menu? If I'm understanding correct, with the TV turned off hold down the INFO+MENU+MUTE buttons on the remote, then release them and press the power button. I've tried probably 50 times and can not get it to work.

Pure_McNasty

04-29-10, 07:39 AM

Is there a trick to getting into the service menu? If I'm understanding correct, with the TV turned off hold down the INFO+MENU+MUTE buttons on the remote, then release them and press the power button. I've tried probably 50 times and can not get it to work.

If that method doesn't work, your set code is probably 1 + 8+ 2 + Mute. I have the 42B450 (US) and 182Mute is my code.

As a word of caution though, going in and changing only the CMS values as above isn't a problem, but there are settings in there that can make your tv not work. AT ALL. So don't touch a setting unless your absolutely sure of what it does.

shibez

04-29-10, 09:07 AM

If that method doesn't work, your set code is probably 1 + 8+ 2 + Mute. I have the 42B450 (US) and 182Mute is my code.

As a word of caution though, going in and changing only the CMS values as above isn't a problem, but there are settings in there that can make your tv not work. AT ALL. So don't touch a setting unless your absolutely sure of what it does.

the 1, 8, 2 mute then power one is mine

spon

04-29-10, 04:04 PM

thanks guys. I'll try that when I get home.

spon

05-02-10, 04:41 PM

I swear I'm not an idiot guys, but I've just spent the last 20 minutes trying to get into service menu and just can not figure it out.

At the risk of sounding even dumber than I already do, can someone please verify the exact sequence needed?

You hold down 1+8+2+mute at the same time, correct? Do depress them simultaneously or does that not matter? Then you release all 4 buttons and press the power button. correct? how quickly do you press Power? immediately or after a second or so?

argh!!!!

kanpol

05-02-10, 06:41 PM

hey spon, dont worry your not an idiot, sometimes they are picky thats all. If you have a US tv then turn it off, now making sure remote is pointed at tv hit mute then 1 then 8 then 2 and then power. you should be in the service menu. You will know cause you will see some menus on the upper right hand side of your screen. to get into advanced its press 0 five times back to back. be careful in there ok

spon

05-02-10, 07:59 PM

thanks Kanpol! I was trying to hold down 1+8+2+mute at the same time instead of in sequence. *duh*

here were my default settings in case anyone is interested. I have to say, the new settings don't look good at ALL on my set. The whites seem washed out and everything seems a bit blurry. My defaults were pretty far off for some reason. I'm in Los Angeles, but the set was bought from Amazon, so who knows were it came from.

Mode: Off
Color Mode: movie
color tone: warm2
Msub Brigh 128
Msub Cont 128
W2_RGAIN 132
W2_BGAIN 90
W2_ROFFS 109
W2_BOFFS 130
N_RGAIN 138
N_BGAIN 126
N_ROFFS 112
N_BOFFS 131
Movie Contr 95
Movie Brigh 53
Movie Color 50
Movie Sharp 20
Movie Tint 50
Movie BkLight 7
M.Gamma Off
M_Sub Gamma 0

color space

Red Sat 0x17
Red Hue 0x40
Green Sat 0x1A
Green Hue 0x40
Blue Sat 0x16
Blue Hue 0x40
Cyan Sat 0x17
Cyan Hue 0x3B
Magenta Sat 0x16
Magenta Hue 0x40
Yellow Sat 0x10

kanpol

05-02-10, 11:49 PM

kanpol

05-02-10, 11:51 PM

EE Engineer, if your still reading this thread was wondering if you ever had the chance to calibrate your tv using the colorspace in the service menu. If you did, if you dont mind me asking, how did it come out.

shibez

05-03-10, 01:59 AM

kanpol

05-03-10, 02:39 AM

I think I changed mine to B590 but B560 wil work too, not sure which is better

spon

05-03-10, 12:36 PM

hey Spon, your default colorspace matches my default. You can turn the mode to on and put the settings you want to use for movie mode (example contrast brightness color tint) that way it will automatically keep settings you want as its default. If you change the default settings from colorspace and the the W2 W1 N, make sure your either write the defaults down or take a picture of them. If you go into the expert section of the service menu you can turn N/D adjustment to on and you will have cal-day and cal-night mode. For that to work you will also need to change your tv model to b560 or b590. That wi9ll also enable cinema smoooth.
this link will explain it all in detail, just be careful, please

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1175569

thanks for the link. I think I'll try that out when I get home. Just to clarify my last post- I did change the defaults to the suggestions posted earlier in the thread. What I found is that the picture (to my eyes) now look substantially worse than it did before I changed the defaults. I just can't seem to get Movie mode to look even halfway decent no matter which settings I use. Standard mode looks better, but it also seems off. I suppose I should have it professionally calibrated, but I really don't want to drop the extra $$.

Kosta011

05-06-10, 05:45 PM

mac4ps

05-07-10, 12:53 PM

mac4ps, can these settings be used for european model samsung ps-c450?

thanks

I have no idea but it would'nt hurt to try them. Write down your defaults first.

Best

jason81173

05-09-10, 10:46 AM

Hi, I am a novice with this stuff. I am looking for the best settings for tv viewing, particularly for sports, etc. I tried a couple of the recommended settings, but it seemed a little dark. Thank you for your help!

spon

05-09-10, 05:35 PM

mac4ps- Using your settings, I feel like my whites are very washed out, almost yellowish. Could you recommend any changes to the settings in this situation?

Dallows- I was wondering if you'd mind posting your current settings. Reading thru all of your older posts, I feel like my set is similar to yours. I just can't get a decent picture out of Movie Mode.

thanks

davidlem

05-12-10, 10:59 AM

Just ordered my 50" B450, should be here next week. I'm having buyer's remorse; I think it might be a little too big for the bedroom wall. It's not a large room, maybe 13x15, with the bed and TV on opposite sides of the shorter dimension. Perhaps a 42 would have been a better size?

Harri Patel

05-12-10, 02:02 PM

I think if you read back through this thread, you'll find some people who bought the 42" and wish they bought the 50", but few, if any, that bought the 50" and wish they bought the 42".

shibez

05-12-10, 02:16 PM

davidlem

05-12-10, 02:19 PM

Cool! For me this is a monster bedroom TV. My last one in a previous house was a 32" Sony WEGA - that was heavy and deep, but not large in a similar size room. The living room sports a 56" LCoS at about 9ft which is probably a little close but it works.

WSenkow

05-15-10, 04:45 PM

In reply to jason81173...........

Source Satellite (Television)
-----------------------------
Mode = Standard
Cell Light = 7
Contrast = 71
Brightness = 44
Sharpness = 0
Color = 37
Tint = G50/R50

Black Tone = Off
Dynamic Contrast = Low
Gamma = +1
Color Space = Native
White Balance = Default
Flesh Tone = 0
Edge Enhancement = Off

Color Tone = Normal
Size = 16:9
Digital NR = Auto
HDMI Black Level = Normal

Ambien Gnome

05-18-10, 02:40 PM

So I've read thru most of this thread.
And I'm wondering a few things:

1. Any of you Standard mode people still happy with Standard?
2. And any more info on cell light settings? I hear 10, then I hear 8, etc, (both from supposedly "pro" calibrators).

Right now I'm using dan's settings from post #362.
Are these still favorable?
They are nice, but it seems the reds are very red (might be the source material, tho).

Thanks.

joebloggs13

05-18-10, 06:42 PM

thecurrent77

05-19-10, 09:04 AM

Hello Everyone!

I bought my Samsung PN42B450 last summer and I LOVE IT!!
I have never played with or attemped to adjust the picture settings since it was simply AMAZING straight out of the box.
I just bought a Samsung HT-BD1250 Blu Ray home theater system, which was on sale, plus 30% for missing the remote! (I can control it with the Samsung TV remote so who cares!)
Anyway, Since this TV& HT system are outstanding together at factory default I can't wait to play around with the color settings etc!

joebloggs13

05-19-10, 10:06 AM

I picked up the 42B450 for the bedroom. As it just fits the wallspace between bathroom door and closet door, I have no regrets whatsoever with going with the 42 over the 50.;):)

Ambien Gnome

05-19-10, 05:59 PM

STANDARD MODE for me!

Taking the engineering guys advice on using a B&W movie to set white balance, I threw in Raging Bull blu ray,
and in MOVIE mode the whites are not white. And using the engineering guys settings in MOVIE mode did not take care of it either.
Checking dvdbeavers screenshots for this blu ray, the whites should be, well... white. STANDARD mode for me took care of this, and Dark Knight looks great in STANDARD as well (with some minor tweaks).
All panels are different, I guess.

I'm wondering how B&W movies look for you MOVIE mode people. Were you able to get the whites "white"? I wasn't.

shibez

05-19-10, 06:57 PM

shibez

05-19-10, 06:58 PM

dallows

05-19-10, 11:07 PM

my opinion on the cell light is leave it at the default for Standard mode...I found that when I raised it in standard the TV was more prone to image retention/burn in.

I don't even remember what the default setting was.

I believe the whites look more "white" in warm 1 in movie mode.

That's because your set is different. It's probably like Dan's. Our are not that way.

Ambien Gnome

05-20-10, 12:20 AM

I believe the whites look more "white" in warm 1 in movie mode.

I'd be curious to see what Raging Bull looks like on your set.
Of course I'm using dvdbeavers shots as reference, I would assume they have the correct picture. Maybe you do get pefect white with warm 1, but I can't.

shibez

05-20-10, 07:27 AM

I don't even remember what the default setting was.

That's because your set is different. It's probably like Dan's. Our are not that way.

The default for standard is 4

shibez

05-20-10, 07:30 AM

I'd be curious to see what Raging Bull looks like on your set.
Of course I'm using dvdbeavers shots as reference, I would assume they have the correct picture. Maybe you do get pefect white with warm 1, but I can't.

maybe i can post a pic of a black n white movie in HD when i get the chance.

Also i am currently using Macs settings With the only exception being Warm 1...I love it

CruelInventions

05-20-10, 01:23 PM

Checking dvdbeavers screenshots for this blu ray, the whites should be, well... white.

Please don't tell me you were viewing those screenshots on your computer monitor and using that as an (assumed) correct basis for comparison.

Also, just on a general note, be aware that we humans tend to respond favorably to a bright bright bluish white. The type you tend to see more commonly on uncalibrated LCDs. It's not an accurate white though. But if you prefer it and don't care as much about accuracy as you do about satisfying your personal taste and are unwilling to retrain your eyes to appreciate color accuracy, then keep it in standard mode. :)

dallows

05-20-10, 04:06 PM

Please don't tell me you were viewing those screenshots on your computer monitor and using that as an (assumed) correct basis for comparison.

Also, just on a general note, be aware that we humans tend to respond favorably to a bright bright bluish white. The type you tend to see more commonly on uncalibrated LCDs. It's not an accurate white though. But if you prefer it and don't care as much about accuracy as you do about satisfying your personal taste and are unwilling to retrain your eyes to appreciate color accuracy, then keep it in standard mode. :)

What about a white piece of paper? Is that not "real white?" Is it super white?

If I look at piece of plain white paper, and then have that same type of plain white paper displayed on my tv, it should look the same, no? Barring any changing on the editing floor for effect.

Ambien Gnome

05-20-10, 08:32 PM

What about a white piece of paper? Is that not "real white?" Is it super white?

If I look at piece of plain white paper, and then have that same type of plain white paper displayed on my tv, it should look the same, no? Barring any changing on the editing floor for effect.

Maybe we are just using STANDARD white paper, dallows. I guess we should retrain our paper habits and quit using what is really blue paper. Haha.

Well, blue is blue on my monitor, dark green is dark green on my monitor. Yellow is yellow. Guess what pink is? You got it. Pink. I can't imagine my monitor would just happen to throw white off that much.

I would love to know what white is supposed to look like then, if not white. I'm pretty sure I took care of the blue-ish factor, I'll double check.

All good here.

shibez

05-21-10, 08:05 AM

Maybe we are just using STANDARD white paper, dallows. I guess we should retrain our paper habits and quit using what is really blue paper. Haha.

Well, blue is blue on my monitor, dark green is dark green on my monitor. Yellow is yellow. Guess what pink is? You got it. Pink. I can't imagine my monitor would just happen to throw white off that much.

I would love to know what white is supposed to look like then, if not white. I'm pretty sure I took care of the blue-ish factor, I'll double check.

All good here.

i have to go with dallows on this one..because i have a yankees home "pinstripe" jersey ...i am sure every one knows how white the white part of the jersey is...anyways when i watch my yankees in movie mode(warm 2)..their jerseys just dont look white ...they look more like cream. anyways in warm 1 they look white (as they do in standard but standard throws other colors off)

davidlem

05-21-10, 08:56 AM

Got my 50B450 the other day. wow. It's a lot heavier than I expected. The picture is stunning. I notice it seems sharper than my JVC LCoS HD-ILA (also 720p). So far I've only had the chance to check out OTA HD and Xbox 360 (HD games and regular DVD) for a short time. Need to run cable for a satellite receiver in the MBR before it will be used regularly.

I think it was a great buy!

TaichiKid

05-22-10, 12:58 AM

i have to go with dallows on this one..because i have a yankees home "pinstripe" jersey ...i am sure every one knows how white the white part of the jersey is...anyways when i watch my yankees in movie mode(warm 2)..their jerseys just dont look white ...they look more like cream. anyways in warm 1 they look white (as they do in standard but standard throws other colors off)

The Engineering Guy made this comment on how to set whites (and blacks) in B&W movies:

04-08-10, 11:12 AM #1007 | Link
EE_engineer
New Member

Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11
"The color settings on this set will never look right because the factory set the wrong internal adjusts during manufacture! You can get the picture better, but it will never be right until the internal settings are corrected, something I'm trying Samsung to do, but don't hold your breath.

To set color balance properly, you need test equipment, however you can get close using a B&W picture. With a B&W picture on the screen, look at the very dark areas of the image. Any color contamination in the dark areas can be removed with the appropriate color 'OFFSET' control. If you find the dark areas appear a little green, as an example, decrease the setting of the GREEN OFFSET. The offset controls effect the dark areas of the picture. When you are satisfied with the dark areas, turn your attention to the bright areas, the color 'GAIN' controls are used to correct any contamination in the bright areas, just as the OFFSET did for the dark areas. You may need to go back and forth a couple of times as the two adjustments do interact with each other.

As for my settings, they are as follows, and produce an as close to a 'technically correct' setting as my set is capable of, but remember, you may have to tweak these a little for your taste and set. These settings won't make the picture 'pop' but they should produce a more natural looking image. The peak illumination with these settings is about 30ftL, which might be a little bright for a really dim room, if so, turn BOTH the contrast and brightness down a bit, Face21's levels for brightness and contrast seem about right for those levels.

MODE: MOVIE, CELL: 8, CONTRAST 79, BRIGHT: 55, SHARP: 20, COLOR:37, TINT: 37G/63R

WHITE BAL: RED(off): 32, GREEN(off): 28, BLUE(off): 20
RED(gain): 44, GREEN(gain): 29, BLUE(gain): 37

COLOR TEMP: WARM-2, GAMMA: +1, COLOR SPACE: AUTO All other picture enhancements OFF!

If you find the black levels a little to light for you taste, you may decrease the GAMMA to zero, however you will be losing some dark detail with the colors appearing more saturated. You may want to check the white balance against a B&W picture, to see if it needs a little tweaking, since these settings are adjusted to balance my set.

As for menu items that are grayed out, that is because these settings are not applicable or meaningful, with the current inputs or settings of the set. For instance, HDMI black levels refers to RGB signal coding (mostly from video game equipment) , however, your current signal is xyY coded (most likely from a DVD player) , making an RGB adjust both imposable and meaningless (that's why its grayed out)."
Last edited by EE_engineer;

Modern white copy paper is often dyed with flourescent dye which actually flouresces -blue- under flourescent light which gives the brightness of the paper as over 100.

Any way, I think we mostly all agree this panel of Sammy is great, and CNET gave Samsung #1 and #3 out of the top 5 panels for 2009. None of the top 5 were Sony Bravias or Panny's: no Kuros, for example.. Enjoy your settings!

4x12

05-22-10, 11:49 AM

The Engineering Guy made this comment on how to set whites (and blacks) in B&W movies:

04-08-10, 11:12 AM #1007 | Link
EE_engineer
New Member

Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 11
"The color settings on this set will never look right because the factory set the wrong internal adjusts during manufacture! You can get the picture better, but it will never be right until the internal settings are corrected, something I'm trying Samsung to do, but don't hold your breath.

To set color balance properly, you need test equipment, however you can get close using a B&W picture. With a B&W picture on the screen, look at the very dark areas of the image. Any color contamination in the dark areas can be removed with the appropriate color 'OFFSET' control. If you find the dark areas appear a little green, as an example, decrease the setting of the GREEN OFFSET. The offset controls effect the dark areas of the picture. When you are satisfied with the dark areas, turn your attention to the bright areas, the color 'GAIN' controls are used to correct any contamination in the bright areas, just as the OFFSET did for the dark areas. You may need to go back and forth a couple of times as the two adjustments do interact with each other.

As for my settings, they are as follows, and produce an as close to a 'technically correct' setting as my set is capable of, but remember, you may have to tweak these a little for your taste and set. These settings won't make the picture 'pop' but they should produce a more natural looking image. The peak illumination with these settings is about 30ftL, which might be a little bright for a really dim room, if so, turn BOTH the contrast and brightness down a bit, Face21's levels for brightness and contrast seem about right for those levels.

MODE: MOVIE, CELL: 8, CONTRAST 79, BRIGHT: 55, SHARP: 20, COLOR:37, TINT: 37G/63R

WHITE BAL: RED(off): 32, GREEN(off): 28, BLUE(off): 20
RED(gain): 44, GREEN(gain): 29, BLUE(gain): 37

COLOR TEMP: WARM-2, GAMMA: +1, COLOR SPACE: AUTO All other picture enhancements OFF!

If you find the black levels a little to light for you taste, you may decrease the GAMMA to zero, however you will be losing some dark detail with the colors appearing more saturated. You may want to check the white balance against a B&W picture, to see if it needs a little tweaking, since these settings are adjusted to balance my set.

As for menu items that are grayed out, that is because these settings are not applicable or meaningful, with the current inputs or settings of the set. For instance, HDMI black levels refers to RGB signal coding (mostly from video game equipment) , however, your current signal is xyY coded (most likely from a DVD player) , making an RGB adjust both imposable and meaningless (that's why its grayed out)."
Last edited by EE_engineer;

Modern white copy paper is often dyed with flourescent dye which actually flouresces -blue- under flourescent light which gives the brightness of the paper as over 100.

Any way, I think we mostly all agree this panel of Sammy is great, and CNET gave Samsung #1 and #3 out of the top 5 panels for 2009. None of the top 5 were Sony Bravias or Panny's: no Kuros, for example.. Enjoy your settings!

Good info... ill try this out. But, I would take my Panny any day over the Sammy... and honestly, who here really goes on reviews of cnet?

TaichiKid

05-23-10, 03:19 PM

I read all the reviews that I can get my hands on. The bigger unbiased reviewers such as CNET I would tend to pay more attention vs some with retail profit bias. I am cautious with money, esp an extra $500 for brand bias. Statements like 'Lexuses are great, so are Volvo's and Toyota's' in general have burned me so many times!

While I only speak for myself, there are reviews/calibration results from notable personalities such as Tom Huffman, an isf calibrator who posts a lot in AVSForum:

http://www.displaycalibrationonline.com/reviews_samsung_plasma_2009.asp

There are two reasons I would be swayed by his professional opinion:

1) He is a professional calibrator

2) He is a Kuro owner, not a Sammy owner!

I would temper my enthusiasm with two observations:

a) Mr. Huffmann owns the 2008 Kuro, and is comparing it with the 2009 Samsung, and observes that he thinks that the new Kuro (if you can find one) has not changed or imroved for the better

b) You also have to know that the sammy panels are the same thruout the 2009 Sammy line; as you go up in price only the diagonal size goes up and the number of features such as internet ready... However, the quality of the plasma panels are the same. For example, the firmware update is the same for 2009 (the number might be different only)

I think in the future, many manufacturers will tend to converge in good quality as they compete for a share of our dollars. Which is great for us!

dallows

05-24-10, 08:20 AM

spon

05-24-10, 08:48 PM

dallows- if you don't mind me asking, what are you current settings? thanks

Ambien Gnome

05-25-10, 01:14 AM

I did.
I was just being silly.

shibez

05-25-10, 09:04 AM

dallows have you tried "mac4ps" settings from page 35? I think you would be happy with them when switching from warm 2 to warm 1.

ahartig

05-25-10, 11:48 AM

Red Dead Redemption on XBOX 360:

I am having some issues with my display during in-game night time:

When it turns to night time my display does some weird stuff with brightness. For example, when skinning an animal at night my display brightens up a bit when the camera is looking up at John Marston with the stars in the back background. Once the camera refocuses behind me after the skinning cinematic completes, the display stays extremely bright for about 1 second, it then turns back to normal brightness.

It is also noticeable when walking through caves or houses at night, depending on where the camera is focused, the display will brighten or darken, very annoying.

I have a Samsung plasma PN50B550, all image processing options set to "off" under picture controls. Warm 2, cell light 9, brightness 60, contrast 90, sharpness off, dynamic contrast off.

sundaydriver

05-26-10, 11:49 AM

Hey guys,
Ive had a PN50B450 for a couple of months so far and It's been great right out
of the box but I wanted to fine tune the settings to make it look its best so I've been through most of this forum but the settings I found by dan on post 699 make my
set look really dark and wierd. Standard works great for me but is there anyone else
who's found this? Whats the recommended setting for 'standard' sets since I realised that dan's settings work best for sets which are somehow better in movie mode.
Thanks.
p.s. is it better to increase the cell light (which I heard can increase burn in) or gamma?

vinouspleasure

05-26-10, 06:37 PM

Hi,

I have purchased an acer revo media computer. When I connect the PN42B450 to hdmi 1 or 3, the screen displays a "mode is not supported" message. I have manually set the resolution to 1024x768.

When I connect the tv to hdmi/dvi (2), there is no sound and the computer shows I have a dvi connection rather than an hdmi connection. I purchased this cable off amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/HDMI-6-foot-cable/dp/tech-data/B0002L5R78/ref=de_a_smtd

I have called samsung support and they claim I must plug the computer into the hdmi/dvi receptacle and I should hear sound. They also state hdmi 1 and 2 will not work.

Does anyone have their computer hooked up to hdmi 1 or 2? anyone have a sense of what's going on?

thanks,

Harri Patel

05-26-10, 07:24 PM

Plug the cable into the HDMI port the TV's instructions say to use for computers.

The computer may have shipped with the sound through the HDMI disabled.

Go into the Device Manager on the computer, and expand the "sound, video and game controllers" line and look for "high definition audio" entries. If they have red X's, right-click on one of them, and select "enable." (If it's a Windows 7 machine, same procedure, but get there via Control Panel --> Hardware and Sound --> Sound --> Manage Audio Devices)

vinouspleasure

05-27-10, 06:12 AM

should have said that I already tried this, shows the nvidia hdmi audio is unplugged.

tander

06-04-10, 06:58 AM

hello,this is my first post,I´m from Brazil,yesterday I bought this tv set,and I´d like some tips on calibration,and what size image to use when watch dvd,about the image burn,does it happen nowadays tv plasma set?
Should I use any special settings to prevent it?
Thanks for your help.

stereo55

06-04-10, 11:14 AM

tander

06-04-10, 12:26 PM

Thank you stereo55 for your help:)

stereo55

06-04-10, 03:29 PM

Thank you stereo55 for your help:)

Your welcome . Btw , I should have included these direct links earlier about "making" a burn-in/break-in disk .

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=583089

http://www.eaprogramming.com/

Enjoy your tv ! ;) :D

davidlem

06-04-10, 07:34 PM

Samsung plasma break-in info : http://samsungplasmafaqs.com/index.php/Break-in,_burn-in,_and_image_retention

thanks for the link stereo55, i burned the break in DVD and it's running now!

Renegade197001

06-19-10, 10:56 PM

i have the pal version living in australia, ps50b450, will the settings people here in
America use apply equally to PAL panels ?

shibez

07-05-10, 04:04 AM

took them all in motion..just wanted to try out my new cam :p not the best quality..but a photographer i am not http://img3.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=img0184nq.jpg

Anthony1

07-06-10, 10:43 PM

Hey guys, I know that I really shouldn't be asking this question in this thread, but because this TV is a bit older now, there aren't that many active threads with people that know about this TV, so I was hoping to ask you guys about it.

About a month ago I sold my Samsung PN50A450 plasma. I loved that plasma, and never had any problems with it. Why did I sell it? Because I was hearing all the stuff about watching the World Cup in 3D, and Playstation 3 in 3D, and 3D Blu Ray, etc, etc. Although my Samsung PN50A450 was advertised as "3D Ready" it really is only 3D ready with devices that output a 1360 x 768 resolution, and use a DLP-like Checkerboard 3D format. Direct TV (ESPN 3D) and the PS3 don't output that resolution, and they don't do checkerboard either, so I decided to sell it, and go buy a brand new 2010 model 3D TV.

Well, to make a long story short, I decided to return the new TV I got, and I wish I had my old PN50A450 back. Unfortunately, they are no longer sold anywhere (at least not brand new), so I can't just go buy another one. I did notice that some places still have the PN50B450 brand new. Amazon.com has them. I was thinking of buying one of these from Amazon.com, but all the talk about "buzzing" has me scared of buying from Amazon, because if I end up with one that buzzes loud, I guess I'd have to ship it back to Amazon and that would be a real PITA.

What do you guys think about the whole buzzing thing? Would you buy this TV from Amazon, knowing you might get a buzzer, and then you'd have to ship it back? Has anybody seen any retail locations selling the old PN50B450? I'm surprised some of these are still floating around in the retail channel. I loved the picture quality on the PN50A450, and I've heard the "B" version is very similar. It also has the 3D emitter input right? This might come in handy down the line if somebody makes some kind of adapter that will convert 1080p frame packed 3D to 1360 x 768 checkerboard.

GregLee

07-07-10, 01:07 AM

I loved the picture quality on the PN50A450, and I've heard the "B" version is very similar. It also has the 3D emitter input right?
Up until yesterday, I had both a pn50a450 and a pn42b450. Then I gave away the pn42b450 to a friend (in anticipation of getting a 3d pn58c8000 next week). They are very similar, except my pn42b450 seemed to do a better job with screen graphics (mysterious, if true). I never heard any buzz from either one, but now I worry about getting a buzzer next week (like any other prospective Samsung owner will worry).

Would I buy a Samsung plasma from Amazon? Probably not, but it's academic, since Amazon won't ship big TVs to Hawaii, anyway.

Too bad about the 3d eye fatigue. If that should happen to me, I'm prepared to fall back to 2d with anything I got for this 3d experiment, except for the shutter glasses, which I'd just have to write off.

dallows

07-07-10, 08:36 AM

Well, to make a long story short, I decided to return the new TV I got, and I wish I had my old PN50A450 back..

Why did you decide to return the new tv? Which did you choose? Is there a short version or another post you can link us that explains it? I'm curious. Thanks.

Anthony1

07-07-10, 11:27 PM

Why did you decide to return the new tv? Which did you choose? Is there a short version or another post you can link us that explains it? I'm curious. Thanks.

I got the Panasonic VT20 3D plasma package from Best Buy. Just under $2500 after tax, e-waste fee and everything. Included 3 pairs of 3D glasses. Also would have included two free 3D Blu Ray movies via a mail in rebate. I decided to return it, because while the 3D was absolutely spectacular, I would get some serious eye fatigue after about 30 to 35 minutes of wearing the glasses. It got to the point where I was just preferring to watch the World Cup games in regular High-Def, rather than the 3D version on ESPN 3D. The 3D was amazing for me in short bursts (25 mins or less), but I just couldn't justify spending nearly $2500 for something that I'd really only enjoy in short bursts. The 2D quality of the VT20 is utterly astonishing, but my take on that, is that while I would love to have that uber picture quality, I'm not forking over that much for a really good 50 inch display. Maybe if it was 65 inches, but not 50. I basically was way overpaying specifically because of the 3D feature, and with the eye fatigue, that justification basically melted away.

Unfortunately, I sold my PN50A450 on Craigslist for $650. :( After buying the VT20, I was scrambling to sell my other plasma, and I settled for $650. So, I'm trying to find something very similar, for a similar price. That is why buying a PN50B450 is so appealing as a possibility, because I know it's like a half-brother to the A version.

Y2KFirehawk

08-03-10, 07:59 PM

shibez

10-12-10, 02:23 PM

Finally tuning in to this thread after owning the set for almost a year! We use the set primarily for daytime viewing. (Night time viewing is my FP setup ;) )

I have been very pleased with the picture in Standard mode, much like others.

glad youre happy with it after a year of ownership...I too enjoy the standard mode w/ minor adjustments for regular tv watching(hd cable n such)... and for bluray/ movie viewing i like the movie mode with a ton of adjustments.

evan1

12-16-10, 03:23 PM

curious what settings everyone is using after all this time

AGreenawalt

01-12-11, 09:16 AM

Update My colorometer was measuring red incorrectly, so I adjusted the meter, and created a new calibration. I am very happy with these. The adjustment focused on the greyscale (white balance), and now whites are a nice white, and dark areas are dark grey with little hint of any color skew.

Movie Mode, Warm 2 setting
Cell Light: 10
Contrast: 85
Brightness: 50 (this can vary from 48 to 52 depending on what input or source you are using)
Sharpness: 20 for standard definition content. I use 5 for HD content (Blu-Ray, or High Def Channels)
Color: 38
Tint: G42/R58

Advanced: Everything off or zero except:
Gamma: 0 (or -1 if you like)
Color Space: Auto

White Balance:
Red Offset: 21
Green Offset: 25
Blue Offset: 15
Red Gain: 25
Green Gain: 0
Blue Gain: 27

Dallows, can you tell me how this looks on your set?
EDIT: Tweaked a little more and now it's even better. New numbers have been updated above on 11-28-09 (white balance and Color)

Dan

I am using these settings currently. It looks good. The reds on my screen are very pixel"y". I ordered new HDMI cables off Mono price. I think the cheap no name brand ones I got may be a issue.

Does anyone else notice noise on the red bar on FOX News? I am curious if its just my TV that shows flickering reds or if it happens. It seems to be when the TV first turns on for a little while till it gets warmer??

tothbros

01-12-11, 04:09 PM

Hi mac4ps,
just a quick thanks for those calibration results! i have the same exact model: ps50b430 (european, hungarian) and those settings worked like a charm. i was a bit hesitant about messing with the service menu, but as it turned out, it was a no brainer.
im no expert, but the factory settings for the colours were way off. my reds were really messed-up: way too bright compared to the other colors. im re-watching some of my hd stuff and the difference is huge. the picture is more natural, the skin tones are finally realistic and the colours seem balanced to my untrained eyes.
so thanks again!

dallows

01-13-11, 06:01 PM

I tried mac4ps' settings for movie and while it did help there was still a very dull, overcast image. Not as bad though. But it still wasn't clear. It's like looking through a filter. The color seemed better though.

I can also say that if you used his settings across movie/warm2 - warm1- normal, it gives the same result.

Also noticed that when I tried to put those settings to standard (followed his steps and just switched it to standard instead of movie) it made my standard image look bad. That took a while to fix.

tothbros

01-25-11, 02:40 PM

hi dallows,
is your set american? if it is, that can explain the difference.
what are your settings?

there is another phenomenon that i have just recently noticed. when i watch it closely, in certain parts of the screen i see lots of tiny moving grains. this is not the so called "film grain" usually seen on blu-ray movies, which is supposed to be normal. these grains keep moving even if i pause the picture. i only noticed this while fiddling with the cables, so it might be the case of "dont watch it so close", as from a normal viewing distance i dont experience this.
anyway, just thought i'd ask if any of you've seen this...

Weewoo87

03-01-11, 10:12 PM

I have a similar issue with my PN50B450. When in Movie mode I get green specks/noise/static where the letterbox bars are. I have tried it with different cables and players and the results are the same. When put back in Standard mode the noise goes away. Because of these green specks it makes my letter box bars brighter than the black in the actual picture. I would prefer to use Movie because the Warm 2 setting appears to have the most accurate color.

dsskid

03-02-11, 06:04 AM

Might be a bad HDMI cable.

Weewoo87

03-02-11, 12:25 PM

That was my initial thinking but after trying a different cable and the results I was left puzzled. Why it happens only in Movie mode is beyond me? Any one else have this issue?

cknookie

03-08-11, 06:45 PM

I'm a new member and a proud owner of the B450. I just have one question. Should i set my resolution in my blu-ray player to 720p or 1080p? And should i select 24p to be on or off in the blu-ray players menu?

malis0931

03-19-11, 12:05 AM

shibez

03-25-11, 09:01 AM

I am using these settings currently. It looks good. The reds on my screen are very pixel"y". I ordered new HDMI cables off Mono price. I think the cheap no name brand ones I got may be a issue.

Does anyone else notice noise on the red bar on FOX News? I am curious if its just my TV that shows flickering reds or if it happens. It seems to be when the TV first turns on for a little while till it gets warmer??

try putting your cable box into 1080i instead of 720p.

tothbros

03-26-11, 04:41 PM

Yes, I think we are experiencing the same issue. And you are right, it only happens in Movie mode. I'm really used to Warm2 by now, Standard looks too blue-ish to me and it creates artificial edges, which lead me to Movie mode in the first place. And during normal programmes and/or from a "normal" viewing distance I don't notice this. I used some color bars test images and the phenomenon is obvious there.

TaichiKid

04-06-11, 03:22 PM

I don't experience the sparkly noise you have been talking about in the black areas; my set has been on for 14+ hours a day (use it to watch CNBC FNN during the days) for the last year and 3 months.

The service panel color settings given by our European friend are still great, and the picture is still as good.

I have found for streaming stuff off of your laptop/PC, the dynamic setting works well. Perhaps that is what it was designed for??

If you report your problem with the sparkly noise to Samsung, you might think you have to pay for in home warranty service after one year. But if you purchased your set with a major credit card, you may find that your warranty is doubled. Check with your credit card issuer to see if that is the case. If that is the case, you may see if that problem can be fixed for free.

brigand

05-08-11, 10:09 PM

I've had my PN50B450 for about a year and a half now. I've tweaked my settings many times, and I've experimented with suggestions from this thread.

Here are my settings. If you have your TV set to Movie mode and like it, I would suggest you stay away from these settings. I've tried Movie on mine, and everything is just so RED. There's a red haze over everything and I can't stand it. Maybe my settings are "wrong," but they look good to me. I'm sure a professional calibrator would mock these settings, but I love how my display looks.

I did not use any calibration discs, just my own eyes. I view the screen from about 9 feet away. I use these settings for HD cable, blu rays, upscaled DVDs, and Netflix streaming (I have slightly different settings for Xbox 360).

Mode: Standard
Cell light: 10
Contrast: 80
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 5
Color: 37
Tint: G80/R20

Advanced settings:
Black tone: off
Dynamic contrast: off
Gamma: 0
Color space: Auto
Flesh tone: 0
Edge enhancement: off

White balance:
R-offset: 0
G-offset: 25
B-offset: 25
R-gain: 0
G-gain: 25
B-gain: 25

Picture options:
Color tone: Cool
Size: Screen Fit most of the time. 16:9 when I want Pixel Shift enabled.
Digital NR: off
HDMI black level: normal (grayed out, can't change it)
Film mode: off (grayed out, can't change it)

A couple strange things you might notice off the bat are G80/R20, and R-offset and R-gain at 0. I use those settings because if I don't, reds, yellows, and oranges are WAY too vivid and look ridiculous to me. This is very noticeable in football games- orange pylons, yellow goalposts, and any red jerseys (good example is Atlanta Falcons) just stand out way too much. I still think red and orange stand out a bit too much, but there's nothing else I can do.

stereomandan

06-01-11, 01:36 PM

My PN42B450 update

O.k., so it’s been a while, but I bought a much better meter ( i1pro), and it is giving me much more accurate results than the calibrations I posted before. I decided to move to standard mode to get more brightness and see if I could get a decent grayscale (which I could, see attachments). I now use the settings below for all inputs. Brightness may need to be modified for each input. This gives me a very bright and dynamic picture, with very good color accuracy. Average gamma is 2.30, which works great. My peak brightness is 60 ftL!, good enough for viewing even during the day with windows near my TV. I haven’t had any problems with these settings, and the display has the same amount of minimal image retention that it always has had even in movie mode.

As always, results will vary from set to set, but this looks fantastic on my display.

Enjoy!
Dan

Mode: Standard
Cell light: 10
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 5
Color: 43
Tint: G44/R56

Advanced settings:
Black tone: off
Dynamic contrast: off
Gamma: -1
Color space: Auto
Flesh tone: 0
Edge enhancement: off

White balance:
R-offset: 19
G-offset: 25
B-offset: 4
R-gain: 30
G-gain: 25
B-gain: 9

Picture options:
Color tone: Normal
Size: 16:9
Digital NR: off
HDMI black level: normal
Film mode: Auto

(By the way, tint has the largest impact on yellow and magenta, so any big changes to tint will mess with skin tones. The settings above gave me the best balance of yellow, magenta and green)

CruelInventions

06-01-11, 02:23 PM

Thanks for your continued postings, stereomandan.

How often do you view your panel with the lights out or with very low lights? Seems like you calibrated with more priority given to daylight viewing, hence, my question.

I really hate the grey-blacks of this panel when viewed in low light situations (typical to most avg. Samsung plasma panels, apart from the 58" post-2009 models). Is it safe to say your most recent calibration did not attempt to maximize black level performance?

stereomandan

06-01-11, 04:03 PM

I use these settings at night as well, and it isn't too bright for me. I wasn't favoring night or day viewing, but I did want to help cut the ambient from daylight with a brighter picture. Perhaps it is due to the smaller size of the screen, but it doesn't bother my eyes at all. Even my movie mode was at 45 ftL, versus my new results of 60 ftL in standard mode. I do prefer a bright picture, but I am not willing to have gray blacks either. I will update as I live with these settings for a while to see if my opinion changes.

I'll have another look at the black level, but I don't remember it standing out as being much raised at all with these new settings. I did have to reduce the brightness from roughly 50 in Movie mode, to around 45 in standard mode to keep black levels where they should be.

Dan

CruelInventions

06-01-11, 08:31 PM

Thanks. I'll have to dig back into the settings again. Small monkeying around over the months have left me with some rather odd looking flesh tones. :eek: I was going to wait until I picked up the Spears & Munsil disc though, but maybe I'll play around with your settings first.

I'm sure you realize it's a big step to defect from the "movie mode" setting. That's requirement #1 in the videophile rulebook. I hope you are prepared to go on the lam. :p

stereomandan

06-02-11, 11:58 AM

LOL :)

So I had a look at the black level between my movie mode settings , and this standard mode, and I have to say that I had a very hard time telling a difference. If we consider that the Plasma has a constant contrast ratio, then that might explain the small difference in black level performance between movie mode and standard mode. I went from 45 ftL to 60 ftL, a 33% increase in output. At the very low black levels of these Samsung plasma's, a 33% increase in black level will not be very noticeble. I tried very hard to see a difference, and probably would have a hard time with a blind A-B test telling which is which.

I'm always up to try tweaking my displays. I wasn't sure I would be able to hit a nice 6500K grayscale in standard mode, but sure enough, I could. A 33% increase in peak brightness is noticeable, although not by leaps and bounds, but it is there. Also, the primary and secondary locations are not very different from movie mode to standard mode, so there really isn't much drawback for color fidelity. About the only concerns I would have is increased power consumption, and maybe shorter display life.

The attached color gamuts below are from "movie mode" (left) and "standard mode". (right) As you can see, they are very, very close. Neither one it perfect, but this Samsung doesn't allow me much control over the primary and secondary locations. The main lever is tint. So if you are concerned about skintones, tint is your friend, as well as potentially reducing your overall color level. Tint has a huge impact on yellow in these Samsungs, and yellow has a huge impact on skintones.

So count me in as one of those who has fallen off the wagon and jumped to standard mode. :) Happy tweaking!

Dan

CruelInventions

06-03-11, 12:02 PM

Excellent info. And yes, those ARE close!

Thanks again.

vincentfam

07-29-11, 09:54 PM

Greetings,

I just calibrated my PN50b450 by using hcfr software and xrite eyeone lite and gamma response is pretty level. I have been DIY calibrating for over two years. Recently, I initially started using the HD DVE disc with the red/green/blue levels even at 100% at 80 ire. I then noticed the other rgb levels at 50, 60, and 70 were not level but were greatly affected when adjusting the contrast and brightness levels during continuous measurements. I kept adjusting the rgb levels at from 50 to 80 ire, and later separately rgb levels from 30 to 40 ire, and the contrast/brightness levels until all rgb levels of the greyscale from 30 to 80 consistently came within 2 percent of 100% levels. This made my gamma a straight flat line and a terrific picture. My highest delta E is 2.5.

I think that all hdtv's have a sweet spot which can be found by adjusting (slowly but surely) the contrast and brightness settings to where rgb levels are consistent between 30 and 80 ire. For example, if your 70 ire has a red level at 95%, adjusting the constrast or brightness may raise this level while not affecting the 80 ire rgb levels. After I completed my adjustments, my 100 ire had a measurement of 40.8 ftL and the 10 ire was exactly .65% of the 100 ire, which may be perfect. I call this the "sweep" method and it involved a lot of trial and error.

The cell light was originally set at 10 - as recommended, but readjusted to 9 to level out a bump in the gamma graph. I also attempted to lower the cell to 8 but the gamma graph just went bonkers.

The following are my settings for a dark room setting. The resulting gamma was 2.36, with static contrast at 1173:

movie mode
cell 9
contrast 87
brightness 53
sharpness 29
gamma 0
color space auto
offset: red 29, green 25, blue 35
gain: red 25, green 25, blue 45
mode warm2
16:9
hdmi black level low
all options off

Good Luck,

Vincentfam

218744

218745

vincentfam

11-25-11, 11:27 PM

Warm2 was just a little too dark and dull for me. For those of you that want a little less orange in your picture:
Movie mode
warm1
cell light 9
contrast 89
brightness 51
sharpness 65
color 48
tint 51/49
Gamma 0
color space auto [For a more vivid picture: color space native, color 50, tint 51/49]
cuts Red 29 Green 25 Blue 45
Gain Red 28 Green 25 Blue 29
Screen Fit
All other enhancements off

Calibration was much easier and temperature is at 7000K approximately. The gamma curve is the flattest I have ever seen.

As always,
Vincentfam

228903

vincentfam

12-04-11, 08:11 AM

For a slightly lighter movie mode, see the following link for my settings using cool tone for movie mode: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1377412

Vincentfam

dallows

12-04-11, 10:59 AM

matryx

12-04-11, 05:32 PM

dallows

12-05-11, 04:44 PM

I was wondering do all you guys use 16:9 or screen fit?
I noticed when using 16:9 you don't get the whole picture. I was switching between this and screen fit and using 16:9 it definitely cuts of little part of the left and right image.

I also started to notice that I'm getting a loud buzzing from my tv after owning it for 2 years

Pretty sure I use 16:9. I would've thought screen fit would zoom/shrink the image as needed.

I could be wrong though. Screen fit could be correct.

kanpol

12-05-11, 05:57 PM

Heya Dallows, long time no talk to, has it going, see you finally got stereomandan to switch to standard mode. I gave my kid the 42b450(his tv died)I put those standard settings on and they look good. Anywho screen fit is 1:1 mapping, which is the way its supposed to look, 16:9 actually zooms in the picture a little. I use 16:9 for Tv because screen fit turns off the pixel shift. 1:1 for movies if there are no black bars.

benitez1

12-16-11, 08:43 AM

Hi all great info and settings
i have one question my reds a too vivid how do i tone them down
im using stereodans settings

Mode: Standard
Cell light: 10
Contrast: 100
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 5
Color: 43
Tint: G44/R56

Advanced settings:
Black tone: off
Dynamic contrast: off
Gamma: -1
Color space: Auto
Flesh tone: 0
Edge enhancement: off

White balance:
R-offset: 19
G-offset: 25
B-offset: 4
R-gain: 30
G-gain: 25
B-gain: 9

Picture options:
Color tone: Normal
Size: 16:9
Digital NR: off
HDMI black level: normal
Film mode: Auto

Any help would be great thanks
Benitez1

matryx

12-18-11, 04:51 PM

I was wondering if it's normal for you guys to have to black bars on the left and right on this TV. I tried both the 16:9 and screen fit, both have black bars on the left and right. This is on my ps3 playing black ops in split screen mode

vincentfam

12-24-11, 09:26 AM

Greetings,

For obtaining a pop from your PN**B450, I believe that Sharpness is important. After many hcfr calibrations and reviewing the service manual for this model, here is my recommendation:

The DVE disc is about the best one for this model. Make sure that all of the blu ray's menu adjustment settings, especially sharpness, are turned off. The blu rays display setting should be set for 720p signal. The tv's aspect should be set at screen fit (not 16:9) for 1:1 mapping. You may want to use 16:9 because the screen fit apparently turns off the pixel shift/orbiter where you may see some artifacts. In the advance settings: color space native.

Load the DVE disc and go to the 720p calibration patterns (not the 1080p), and go to the sharpness pattern. Adjust the sharpness from where you usually sit to view the tv, and not close up. Try not to "strain" to see whether artifacts appear on the pattern, but try to use normal viewing. Start the sharpness setting by using your remote for the tv's menu from about 60 and reduce it until the artifacts disappear from the "outer" part of the large circle. For viewing in movie mode, use DVE's 1080p sharpness pattern which may be better in detecting artifacts than the 720p sharpness pattern.

Edit Note: Just when the artifacts appear to disappear, kick the settings up one notch. For example: if all artifacts disappear at setting 41, bump the setting up to 42. This is the recommendation from AVS Forum calibration disc.

Alternative method: Start the sharpness setting at 0 and keep raising it until you see artifacts appear on the outer part of the large ring. Then lower the setting one notch.

I consistently obtain 42 (yours may be different) as a sharpness setting and the picture really looks nice and it does pop. My set top box from the cable company delivers a 1080i signal.

Further Edit: Please note that I calibrate using Standard Mode with Cool tone in the picture options. This allows me to brighten up the picture a little without being limited by the maximum contrast in the movie mode that has problems, at least on my tv, with "blooming reds."

Believe it or not, after calibration, adjusting contrast @ 100ire to 50ftl, the picture looks like a slightly lighter but sharper movie mode.

Good luck,

Vincentfam

vincentfam

12-29-11, 07:00 AM

Greetings,

Below are my PN50B450 settings regarding Pop sharpness:
100 ire = 50ftl
Calibration using large apl windows, measurement may be inaccurate - see below
standard mode
cell light 8
contrast 84
brightness 51
sharpness 42 (720p signal with 720p pattern, using DVE)
color 51
tint 51/49
Gamma -3
color space native
cuts Red 17 Green 25 Blue 43
Gain Red 39 Green 25 Blue 35
color tone cool
Screen Fit 16:9 is also ok
You may want to use 16:9 because the screen fit apparently turns off the pixel shift/orbiter where you may see some artifacts
hdmi black level low
All other enhancements off

100 ire = 37ftl using combination of window patterns and apl
Calibration using large apl windows, measurement may be inaccurate - see below

standard mode
cell light 8
contrast 71
brightness 49
sharpness 42 (720p signal with 720p pattern, using DVE)
color 51
tint 51/49
Gamma -1
color space native
cuts Red 21 Green 25 Blue 36
Gain Red 32 Green 25 Blue 29
color tone cool
Screen Fit 16:9 is also ok
You may want to use 16:9 because the screen fit apparently turns off the pixel shift/orbiter where you may see some artifacts
hdmi black level low
All other enhancements off

Jan 6, 2012 The above settings use hdmi cables; I do have settings for a component source, if interested.

As always,

Vincentfam

LDouglasLJr

01-08-12, 06:54 PM

Vincent, I would be really interested in your component settings. I don't have everything running through HDMI yet.

Also the above settings seemed to have gotten rid of some of the artificts I was seeing in my picture with certain scenes.

vincentfam

01-08-12, 09:13 PM

LDouglas,

Below are my PN50B450 settings for component connection regarding Pop sharpness:
Updated Jan 10, 2012
100 ire = 36.952 ftl (Target gamma @ 2.4)
Calibration using large apl windows, measurement may be inaccurate - see below
standard mode
cell light 8
contrast 71
brightness 53
sharpness 17 (720p signal with 720p pattern, using DVE)
color 50
tint 48/52
Gamma -2
color space native
cuts Red 23 Green 25 Blue 35 (offsets)
Gain Red 31 Green 25 Blue 32
color tone cool - picture options
Screen Fit 16:9 is also ok
You may want to use 16:9 because the screen fit apparently turns off the pixel shift/orbiter where you may see some artifacts
hdmi black level low

All other enhancements off

Picture settings were adjusted to where the rgb levels stabilized (if you are familiar with hcfr calibration) across the greyscale and provided a better and proper brightness level.

I double checked sharpness and found it to be 17 for the component settings.

Picture should "pop."

Good luck,

As always,
Vincentfam

LDouglasLJr

01-09-12, 09:07 AM

Thanks Vincent, I'll be sure to give these a try later tonight.

vincentfam

01-12-12, 01:15 AM

LDouglasLJr

Vincent, I would be really interested in your component settings. I don't have everything running through HDMI yet.

Also the above settings seemed to have gotten rid of some of the artificts I was seeing in my picture with certain scenes.

You may want to use 16:9 because the screen fit apparently turns off the pixel shift/orbiter where you may see some artifacts

I started seeing some artifacts while using screen fit, so I changed to 16:9 to apparently turn on the anti burn in technology of pixel shift/orbiter. Picture is about the same without seeing pixel artifacts.

Vincentfam

vincentfam

01-15-12, 07:11 PM

Updated: Jan 16, 2012

Greetings colleagues and my apologies in posting the above pop sharpness settings. My previous calibrations involved using large apl windows instead of the regular ones to avoid the effect of the automatic brightness limiter (abl) on this tv, but this made the above previous measurements inaccurate.

To avoid the abl effect (which is an automatic dimming if the picture becomes too bright - energy saving feature) I simply used regular windows and calibrated 100 ire @ 27.5 ftl for my component settings.

Below are my component settings:

standard mode
cell light 8 (This setting is best for a near flat gamma 2.29)
contrast 57
brightness 51
sharpness 7 tweaked (pop sharpness using 720p signal and 720p pattern)
color 51
tint 50/50
Gamma -2
color space native
cuts Red 21 Green 25 Blue 35 (offsets)
Gain Red 33 Green 33 Blue 30
16:9 (to keep pixel shifter/orbiter on)
color tone normal
pic size 16:9
All other enhancements off
Jan 18: Turn on edge enhancement for a potentially better picture quality

Jan 21: Further investigation reveals that edge enhancement may be adding artifacts to the picture. RGBs tweaked as follows
offsets Red 25 Green 25 Blue 35
gains Red 32 Green 33 Blue 32
Sharpness maintained at 7
I thought it was too good to be true

Vincentfam

vincentfam

01-15-12, 10:19 PM

Greetings,
Revised!

Here are my hdmi settings using regular window patterns:

Peak White is @ 28 ftl.

standard mode
cell light 10 (This setting is best for a near flat gamma 2.24)
contrast 58
brightness 51
sharpness 14 tweaked again
(pop sharpness using 720p signal and 720p pattern)
color 50
tint 51/49
Gamma -2
color space native
cuts Red 20 Green 25 Blue 36 (offsets)
Gain Red 28 Green 25 Blue 24
16:9 (to keep pixel shifter/orbiter on)
color tone normal
pic size 16:9
All other enhancements off
Jan 18: Turn on edge enhancement for a potentially better picture quality

Jan 21: Further investigation reveals that edge enhancement may be adding artifacts to the picture. RGBs tweaked as follows
offsets Red 26 Green 25 Blue 36
gains Red 24 Green 25 Blue 25
Sharpness 14
I thought it was too good to be true

Gamma curve is pretty much smooth between 30 and 80 ire windows

My above component settings look better on my tv. Probably will tweak both settings in a few weeks.

Vincentfam

vincentfam

01-18-12, 10:35 PM

Greetings Once Again:

FYI

A support website described edge enhancement as follows:

The edge enhancement feature functions much like the "Sharpness" option. The difference is it attempts to eliminate any artificial edging created by the sharpness function. This feature can be turned on and off to your viewing preference.

It appears that the edge enhancement is not the same as sharpness and actually eliminates artificial edging. I turned the edge enhancement on for my "avoiding automatic brightness limiter" settings and the picture really pops.

Edit: Contrary to the above website information, it appears that this enhancement does add sharpness artifacts to the picture. Nonetheless, the picture does "pop."

Jan 22: A possible Solution for the Edge Enhancement feature is to first use a sharpness pattern to eliminate artifacts at the highest sharpness setting, and then turn on the edge enhancement feature to improve the picture quality.

As always,

Vincentfam

vincentfam

02-04-12, 03:07 PM

Greetings,

Just tweaked my component settings for a better brightness level. Previous settings were just a little too dark. For you DIY calibrators, peak white @ 100 ire is 28.118 ftl. Also, gamma graph attached for your convenience. These settings look good with the edge enhancement on or off. I leave it on per my preference:

Component Settings:
Feb 9, 2012: Use these settings for Over The Air broadcasts.
standard mode
cell light 10 (This setting is best for a near flat gamma 2.21)
contrast 56
brightness 53
sharpness 8 tweaked (pop sharpness using 720p signal and 720p pattern)
color 51
tint 51/49
Gamma -2
color space native
cuts Red 25 Green 25 Blue 35 (offsets)
Gain Red 31 Green 33 Blue 35
color tone normal
pic size 16:9 (to keep pixel shifter/orbiter on)
Looks better with edge enhancement on or off
All other enhancements off

hdmi settings:
standard mode
cell light 7 (This setting is best for a near flat gamma 2.19)
contrast 56
brightness 53
sharpness 14 Corrected, blu ray was set on 1080i instead of 720p signal
tweaked (pop sharpness using 720p signal and 720p pattern)
color 50
tint 51/49
Gamma -2
color space native
cuts Red 22 Green 25 Blue 34 (offsets)
Gain Red 28 Green 26 Blue 29
color tone normal
pic size 16:9 (to keep pixel shifter/orbiter on)
Looks better with edge enhancement on or off
All other enhancements off

Friendly note on Sharpness: You may have noticed that my sharpness settings change from time to time. This is due to my "squinting" at the sharpness pattern, which is incorrect, instead of using "normal vision" to adjust sharpness on the sharpness pattern. Everytime I "squint", the settings are off and the picture doesn't look as great as it could be. See my earlier post on "the importance of pop sharpness settings."

As always,

Vincentfam

vincentfam

02-12-12, 04:41 PM

Greetings,

Herein are the settings for the movie mode with warm 2 tone, calibrated at industry standards. For your DIY calibrators, peak white is 25 ftl to avoid the automatic brightness limiter, with gamma level @ 2.24.
movie mode
cell light 5 (This setting is best for a near flat gamma 2.24)
contrast 77
brightness 53
sharpness 46: Corrected, blu ray was set on 1080i instead of 720p signal
(pop sharpness using 720p signal and 720p pattern, using the 1080p pattern produced a less sharp picture for the movie mode)
color 51
tint 48/52
Gamma 0
color space native
cuts Red 29 Green 25 Blue 47 (offsets)
Gain Red 38 Green 25 Blue 40
16:9 (to keep pixel shifter/orbiter on)
color tone warm 2
pic size 16:9
edge enhancement on (my preference)
All other enhancements off

Picture looks decent and slightly darker than the standard mode.

As always,

Vincentfam

vincentfam

02-19-12, 07:09 PM

Greetings,

Has anyone with this model adjusted the "trim pots" for better black levels and therefore a better picture quality? It requires opening up the rear panel and adjusting voltage settings with a meter, etc. Also, there is a warning of destroying your tv and voiding your warranty.

I have been reviewing zoyd's following post and will probably attempt this in the latter part of this week:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1390635

Feb 20, 2012 Report: I opened up the rear panel and discovered the following adjustment pots: VR-VSCAN, VR-FR, VA, and VS. Measuring voltage for VA and VS found them to be within posted levels on the label inside of panel. VR-VSCAN I believe is the vscan adjustment. Not sure about VR-FR, which may be for "falling ramps". According to other posts, you definitely do not want to touch this pot. I did not find the yrr adjustment that is talked about in zoyd's post. I decided that it is not worth adjusting without more information. I did discover two things: 1st if you are going to try this, buy a digital voltmeter to accurately measure the voltage, and 2nd there is a lot of dust behind the tv.

Until later,

Vincentfam

vincentfam

02-21-12, 09:02 PM

Greetings Colleagues,

A possible solution for better blacks for this model is the cal-night mode, which appears to have better black levels per posts in this forum. The gamma graph looks very crappy, but the luminance for rgb levels appears to be substantially increased between 50 to 100ire. This may be designed for deeper colors, my guess.

To access the cal-night mode, you need to enter the service menu and upgrade the model to B560, per posts in this forum. As always, enter the service menu at your own risk. Doing so may destroy your tv or void any warranty.

Here are my settings for hdmi:
Cal-Night mode
Cell 8
contrast 64
brightness 59
sharpness 14
color 40
tint 49/51
gamma -3
color space native
white balance
Offsets: red 8, green 31, blue 27
gains: red 27, green 25, blue 25
color tone normal
size 16:9
hdmi black level low
All other enhancements off

The picture looks deeper with better black levels.

As always,

Vincentfam

kanpol

02-21-12, 10:44 PM

hey vincent I believe the reason for the blacks looking deeper is because dynamic contrast is on and it cant be turned off in the cal modes. If you cycle thru dynamic contrast, black tone and color space, nothing will change,you wont see any difference. What I mean is if you goto say dynamic contrast in any cal mode and go from low to high you will not see any change in picture. If you do that in movie mode you will see a change in each step. I put the same settings on movie mode and cal night and then in movie mode turned dynamic contrast and black tone on the highest levels and the pictures were the same. Anyways though I am liking your calibration settings so keep up the good work. I was thinking of opening up the back on mine and seeing if there were any pots to adjust for a better black level like in this years model.

vincentfam

02-21-12, 11:09 PM

kanpol,

Thanks for your post. For a while there I thought I was talking to myself.

Also, thanks for your observation regarding cal-night settings. I now know that I will be going back to the standard mode with a better gamma graph.

I wouldn't bother with opening the rear panel. I thoroughly searched it and found only the adjustable pots previously described. You may want to consider asking zoyd, or anyone in the LG thread, if he knows anything about adjusting the black levels on this tv, or I would wait for someone more familiar with the pots on this tv before attempting to adjust them. It appears that a person in the LG thread screwed up his LG tv when making some adjustments and had to go through an extensive method to reset it. I am not sure if it is worth it at this time to risk a "shut down" and possible reset.

However, if you do make that "brave" attempt to remove the rear panel and find a useful method, please post in this thread.

As always,

Vincentfam

kanpol

02-22-12, 01:55 AM

I gonna do the adjustment to my 51d6500 when the wife goes to visit the grandkids, that way if something goes wrong I can close it up and play dumb.
I remember zoyd mentioning that you can do it for the c series, so good idea vincentfam better ask him first bout the b series and if it can be done before i openit up. Thanks for keeping this thread alive

LDouglasLJr

02-22-12, 08:07 AM

I haven't tried it but I have opened mine up to try and get rid of a diffusion problem but that's it.

vincentfam

02-27-12, 06:53 AM

Greetings,

Herein are settings adjusted for the lowest possible black level. Instead of focusing on rgb levels, I adjusted the brightness setting where the gamma curve will come up above 2.2 on the graph. Then I lowered contrast to where the "17" level on avs 709's brightness pattern was flashing, and reduced the gamma setting in the advanced options to -3 to get a dark picture. Took about 2 hours total.

For DYI calibrators, measured gamma is 2.33, peak white @ 100 ire is 32.5, and static contrast ratio is 765. See gamma, temperature, and rgb graphs below. Please note that I am still working on sharpness setting, just got tired.

Good Blackness levels
standard mode
cell light 5
contrast 67
brightness 54
sharpness 19
color 50
tint 49/51
Gamma -3
native color space
cuts Red 20 Green 25 Blue 36
Gain Red 32 Green 33 Blue 34
color tone normal
16:9
All other enhancements off

Tonight I will be working on sharpness and possibly component settings.

As always,

Vincentfam

238543

238544

238545

vincentfam

02-27-12, 08:19 PM

Greetings once again colleagues:

I have attempted to readjust the black levels again. This time I set brightness to 53, then adjusted contrast level to where the #17 is flashing on the avs 709 brightness pattern. Next, I jacked up the gains to their highest consistent levels to level out the gamma graph. Picture looks great, even without edge enhancement. RGB levels are inconsistent around 60 ire.

DIY calibrators: Average gamma 2.34, static contrast 1007, peak white @ 100 ire 40.194.

hdmi settings

Good Black levels
standard mode
cell light 6 (best setting to flatten out gamma curve)
contrast 74
brightness 53
sharpness 11
color 50
tint 49/51
Gamma -3 (Lowest level to produce highest average gamma, see below graph)
native color space
cuts Red 20 Green 25 Blue 42
Gain Red 50 Green 40 Blue 42 (gains are higher to level gamma curve)
color tone normal
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

adding edge enhancement makes the picture look that much better. later on, will try to adjust the blue levels and work on component settings.

As always,

Vincentfam
238667

238668

vincentfam

02-28-12, 07:49 PM

Greetings and thanks for your patience.

I adjusted the above settings for a gamma average of 2.34 for really great blacks. Static contrast is 1064, with peak white at 43.4. See the rgb and gamma graphs below. Using edge enhancement may improve your picture quality.

hdmi settings

Good Black levels
standard mode
cell light 7 (Setting made gamma flatter)
contrast 74
brightness 53
sharpness 11
color 50
tint 49/51
Gamma -3 (key to increase average gamma to 2.34)
native color space
cuts Red 20 Green 25 Blue 41
Gain Red 48 Green 43 Blue 44 (increased to flatten gamma)
color tone normal
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

As always, and exhausted,

Vincentfam

238783

238784

vincentfam

02-28-12, 10:39 PM

Greetings,

Ave Gamma 2.32, peak white 42.8, static contrast 1270
Component Settings, use also for over the air settings OTA.

And herein they are (including graphs):

Good Black levels
standard mode
cell light 7
contrast 75
brightness 53
sharpness 10
color 50
tint 51/49
Gamma -3
native color space
cuts Red 17 Green 25 Blue 41
Gain Red 50 Green 40 Blue 42
color tone normal
16:9
All other enhancements off

Edge enhancement may improve picture.

As always,

Vincentfam

238810

238812

vincentfam

02-29-12, 08:39 PM

Greetings Colleagues,

I have tweaked the component settings above by adjusting the green gain, which apparently had a great impact on the settings. Average gamma increased to 2.36, static contrast went up to 1366:1, peak white to 42.9, and 0 ire measured to its lowest at 0.031 ftl. Picture actually looks better with edge enhancement off.

For your convenience, I have attached the gamma graph.

Here are my settings:

Good Black levels
standard mode
cell light 7
contrast 75
brightness 53
sharpness 10
color 51
tint 50/50
Gamma -3
native color space
cuts Red 13 Green 25 Blue 37
Gain Red 44 Green 42 Blue 41
color tone normal
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

Comments: Brightness 53 appears to be the best level to have a flat gamma curve. I tried brightness settings for 52 and 54, but the gamma curve always had a "bump" in it. Also, the cell light setting affects gamma, with setting 7 appearing to be the best setting for the flattest gamma curve. The gamma setting in the advanced settings was set to -3 to increase average measured calibrated gamma around 2.35, which is recommended by some forum members for hdtv's. The white balance gain setting for green was increased to stabilize rgb levels. Also increasing the gains for red, green, and blue helped to decrease and flatten out the gamma curve above 70 ire. Still use pop sharpness technique, which is easier when you have a peak white level around 40 ftl, and I consistently obtain a 10 or 11 setting.

As always,

Vincentfam

238901

LDouglasLJr

03-01-12, 08:06 AM

It's great that you are still providing updated settings for this set vincent. Tried out the settings before you made tweaks early this morning, so I'll have to make sure I have the most current ones.

vincentfam

03-01-12, 01:21 PM

LDouglasLJr

It's great that you are still providing updated settings for this set vincent. Tried out the settings before you made tweaks early this morning, so I'll have to make sure I have the most current ones.

Please keep in mind that all electronic devices may be different, even if they are the same model number. The posted settings should nonetheless put you in the ball park for component settings for a great picture. I focussed on darker settings to avoid the temptation of adjusting the voltage trim pots to possibly get darker blacks.

Please let me know how your picture looks.

As always,

Vincentfam

CruelInventions

03-01-12, 02:10 PM

Yes, thanks for doing all the "heavy lifting" on this and posting your results. :)

vincentfam

03-01-12, 10:09 PM

CruelInventions,

Calibration is just a hobby that I usually do a few times a week. Not really heavy lifting, but just a break from the wife and kids.

Below are my updated hdmi settings, with a slighly dimmer picture which doesn't hurt the eyes as much: peak white 33.8, average gamma 2.32, and static contrast 850:1. Also, gamma curve graph and rgb levels posted below. The major change was brightness from 53 to 54. Notice the "bump" in the gamma curve.

Good Black levels
standard mode
cell light 6
contrast 68
brightness 54
sharpness 11
color 50
tint 49/51
Gamma -3
native color space
color 50, tint 51
cuts Red 17 Green 25 Blue 37
Gain Red 34 Green 40 Blue 40
color tone normal
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

As always,

Vincentfam

239053

239054

vincentfam

03-03-12, 09:45 AM

Greetings,

Herein is perhaps a final posting, at least for a while, of component settings. These settings have a higher peak white and contrast ratio, and the ones I will be viewing. See attached gamma and rgb graphs. Not to worry, I will check in every now and then.

Good Black levels

Average Gamma 2.43
Static Contrast Ratio 1398:1
Peak White 45 ftl

standard mode
cell light 7
contrast 75
brightness 53
sharpness 10
color 51
tint 50/50
Gamma -3
native color space
cuts Red 13 Green 25 Blue 37
Gain Red 48 Green 44 Blue 43
Color Tone Normal
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

Keys to calibration: peak white level increased by increasing the rgb gains, static contrast ratio may have increased
by lowering the rgb offsets or cuts, it appeared that the gain for green had an impact on rgb level stabilization, and cell setting impacted gamma curve. it took a lot of going back and forth to find best cell, brightness and contrast levels for consistent colors, flat gamma levels, etc.

Probably the only thing left to do is to calibrate movie mode/warm 2 with a flat gamma curve close to 2.4. This may require a small service menu adjustment for sub gamma to M1 or M2, which I believe translate to minus 1 and minus 2, with adjustment to the gamma setting in the user menu, to get the average measured gamma to 2.4. I will try this down the road and probably post it.

per posts in this forum, the higher the average gamma level, the more vivid the colors.

March 8, 2012: If anybody is interested in updated movie mode/warm2 settings for gamma @ 2.4, please let me know. It does not appear to require a service menu adjustment.

As always,

Vincentfam

*Tricks of the Trade Calibration

239206

239207

chorizos

03-09-12, 11:11 PM

Hello, Vincent, thank you for the calibration settings, I applied them to a couple of family tvs and wow, they are very nice!!!
Since you offered it would be very kind of you to post whatever you can for Movie mode as this is actually my favorite mode.
Thanks again for keeping this nice tvs ticking with your research and settings.
Greatly appreciated.!!

vincentfam

03-10-12, 10:41 AM

Greetings Colleagues,

Herein are updated component settings for both the movie/warm2 mode and the standard/normal mode. The movie settings' gamma level is close to 2.5, which is actually recommended by a senior forum member for controlled lighting viewing. Also, respective gamma graphs are provided below:

Movie Mode

Warning: Potential Image Retention For Movie Mode

Average Gamma 2.48
Static Contrast Ratio 1079:1
Peak White 36.8 ftl

movie mode
color tone warm2
cell light 9
contrast 85
brightness 53
sharpness 44
color 50
tint 50/50
Gamma -1
native color space
cuts Red 21 Green 21 Blue 31
Gain Red 48 Green 37 Blue 50
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

Standard Mode

The previous "One For The Road" standard mode settings look better with a higher average gamma. But the below settings have a higher contrast ratio.

Average Gamma 2.32
Static Contrast Ratio 1479:1
Peak White 45.45 ftl

standard mode
color tone normal
cell light 8
contrast 75
brightness 53
sharpness 9
color 51
tint 50/50
Gamma -3
native color space
cuts Red 16 Green 20 Blue 40
Gain Red 50 Green 47 Blue 46
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

As always,

Vincentfam

240001

240002

vincentfam

03-11-12, 04:17 PM

Greetings,

March 23, 2012 Updated

See "evolving sharpness" settings below if your cable signal is set to 1080i.

Updated the component settings for both movie and standard modes using the ganging method of equally increasing rgb levels after calibrating proper rgb levels, per comment in this forum. This allows for flattened gamma curves. Movie mode can be tweaked a little in the service menu to increase range of red and blue gains, but not necessary. The gamma graphs for both modes and rgb graph for movie mode below:

movie:

Warning: Potential Image Retention For Movie Mode

Average Gamma 2.43
Static Contrast Ratio 1032:1
Peak White 35.4 ftl

movie mode
color tone warm2
cell light 8
contrast 87
brightness 53
sharpness 41
color 50
tint 50/50
Gamma -1
native color space
cuts Red 25 Green 18 Blue 36
Gain Red 48 Green 30 Blue 50
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

standard:

Average Gamma 2.38
Static Contrast Ratio 1431:1
Peak White 43.6 ftl

standard mode
color tone normal
cell light 7
contrast 75
brightness 53
sharpness 2
color 51
tint 50/50
Gamma -3
native color space
cuts Red 6 Green 14 Blue 33
Gain Red 50 Green 43 Blue 44
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

key to calibration is the high average gamma. hdmi settings will be tweaked for standard mode and newly posted for movie mode in two days.
As always,

Vincentfam

240126

240127

240128

chorizos

03-12-12, 05:31 PM

These settings look really, really nice!
Thank for the time you take to help us mundane creatures, have a better looking tv picture!
:)

LDouglasLJr

03-12-12, 06:41 PM

I agree chorizos. I can't wait to see the new ones for HDMI. I'm using the component movie ones and love how it looks. I appreciate the support that vincent is still showing this model. :)

vincentfam

03-12-12, 09:38 PM

Greetings,

March 23, 2012 Updated

See "evolving sharpness" settings below if your cable signal is set to 1080i.

Herein are the updated hdmi settings for movie and standard modes, with gamma graphs for both modes and the rgb graph for movie mode. Average gamma is between 2.4 and 2.5 for great colors.

Edit: New Sharpness Settings. Eyes were tired last nite:

Movie

Warning: Potential Image Retention For Movie Mode

Average Gamma 2.47 (Gamma 2.5 recommended by senior member)
Static Contrast Ratio 926:1
Peak White 33.9 ftl

movie mode
color tone warm2
cell light 8
contrast 86
brightness 53
sharpness 35
color 50
tint 50/50
Gamma -1
native color space
cuts Red 25 Green 21 Blue 31
Gain Red 44 Green 32 Blue 48
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

Standard

Average Gamma 2.41
Static Contrast Ratio 1118:1
Peak White 44.3 ftl

standard mode
color tone normal
cell light 7
contrast 74
brightness 53
sharpness 4
color 51
tint 50/50
Gamma -3
native color space
cuts Red 8 Green 18 Blue 34
Gain Red 47 Green 45 Blue 45
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

As always,

Vincentfam

240311

240312

240313

vincentfam

03-13-12, 08:05 AM

Greetings,

Please note the sharpness setting changes for latest updated standard and movie modes for both hdmi and component settings. I checked the settings this morning for only sharpness and found that they were slightly off. I think that, after hours of calibrating rgb levels during the evening, my eyes were too "tired" to accurately calibrate sharpness.

These are tricks of the DIY trade calibrations.

As always,

Vincentfam

vincentfam

03-14-12, 08:07 PM

Please note that the sharpness settings above have changed and these new settings look better. I am still using the pop sharpness calibration technique and trying not to squint, and I discovered one important thing:

I may need new glasses.

Edit: Additional sharpness changes using avs forum 709 disk.

As always,

Vincentfam

vincentfam

03-16-12, 11:03 PM

Greetings,

March 23, 2012 Updated

See "evolving sharpness" settings below if your cable signal is set to 1080i.

My recommendations for sharpness settings for the above recent calibrations are to use the DVE sharpness pattern and increase the sharpness settings from 0 until you start seeing (from where you are sitting) artifacts on the "outer part" of the large circle. Then adjust or decrease the settings when the artifacts appear to almost disappear, usually decreasing the sharpness setting by 1 point. This should give the picture a good crisp appearance.

See my post on pop sharpness settings:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1388270 (view this link for techniques only and ignore the settings in that link that were based on different calibration adjustments)

March 18 Edit Had to adjust the below recommendations. Blu ray was set at 1080i instead of the recommended 720p for calibration; and used "normal viewing" instead of squinting.

41 is the recommendation for movie component settings. 35 is the recommendation for movie hdmi settings. 2 is the recommendation for the standard mode for component and and 4 for standard hdmi settings.

Hope this helps. I do not anticipate any more sharpness changes.

As always,

Vincentfam

vincentfam

03-18-12, 03:15 PM

Sharpness settings updated due to wrong blu ray setting. See above.

vincentfam

03-19-12, 10:46 AM

Greetings once again Colleagues,

March 23, 2012 Updated

See "evolving sharpness" settings below if your cable signal is set to 1080i.

I just thought I would post some explanation regarding sharpness, which is probably one of the most important yet difficult settings to do.

In using the pop sharpness technique, you want to adjust sharpness to where the artifacts just disappear on the outer circle of the DVE 720p pattern. This is easier to do for the standard mode because of the higher contrast and peak white level. That is why I consistently obtain a setting of 5 for hdmi and component settings.

Setting sharpness for the movie mode is a little more difficult because of a darker picture. The artifacts are difficult to see when they first start appearing. With practice, I have narrowed the movie mode settings for sharpness (no artifacts on the outer part of the circle) to 41 for component settings and 40 for hdmi settings.

However, some professionals per youtube video recommend that some sharpness artifacts be added to make the picture look crisper. That is probably why a "46" setting for movie component looks really great or better than a 41 setting.

My recommendations for standard mode settings (hdmi and component), therefore, are to set sharpness at 4 hdmi and 2 component, with additional settings between 6-7 for additional sharpness and perhaps a better picture, and for movie mode settings of 35 (hdmi) to 41 (component), with additional setting between 45-46, respectively, for a possible better picture.

Edit: I do not go beyond the recommended settings as to not introduce additional artifacts in the picture. It all comes down to preference.

March 20: Interesting Note: I had hdmi and component cables hooked up to the cable box and tv at the same time. When I removed and connected the hdmi to the blu ray, the tv's "component" picture appeared to improve. Is this possible or do I still need new glasses?

Hope this helps,

As always,

Vincentfam

vincentfam

03-22-12, 01:15 PM

After you adjust or change the HDTV's picture settings, you may want to consider waiting about a week or a few days to get used to the picture, per recommendations on some web sites.

I haven't adjusted the settings for about a week and the movie component settings look great.

Vincentfam

LDouglasLJr

03-23-12, 09:06 PM

I've had my set with your final setting since you posted them and I love the picture.

vincentfam

03-24-12, 08:18 PM

LDouglasLJr

I've had my set with your final setting since you posted them and I love the picture.

LDouglasLJr,

I have been a DIY calibrator for the last four years and just used the tricks of the DIY trade techniques. The key is getting a gamma level between 2.4 and 2.5, with consistent rgb levels. Contrast and brightness are controlled by using the ganging method. Also, sharpness is important. I use an eye one colorimeter and the free hcfr software.

By the way, what settings are you using? Component settings look great to me.

As always,

Vincentfam

LDouglasLJr

03-25-12, 08:45 AM

I'm actually using both vincent. I have my Dish running through component and my PS3 using HDMI. In the upcoming months, I'll be switching everything over to HDMI.

I think both settings look great. I love movie mode but I seem to get more IR using it though for some reason. Or maybe I just notice it more with it, don't know.

vincentfam

03-25-12, 09:15 AM

Make sure your picture option size is set to 16:9 instead of screen fit. Screen fit shuts off the IR protection, per this forum. See if that helps.

vincentfam

03-25-12, 08:19 PM

Greetings,

Here are my updated sharpness settings for the above March 23, 2012 updated settings:

See "evolving sharpness" settings below if your cable signal is set to 1080i.

hdmi standard: 2
hdmi movie: 31
component standard: 2
component movie: 41

My viewing distance is about 9 feet. Pictures look a little better.

Vincentfam

vincentfam

03-31-12, 09:07 AM

Greetings,

I think that the above settings are about the best I can do, with some additional suggestions below.

The picture may look better if the HD signal is in 1080i. If you are not receiving this signal and you have cable service, go to your cable company's website to see if they have instructions on how to change the settings on your set top box. It is easy to do and AVS Forum may even have a thread for your box.

I do not know anything about satellite settings. Uverse may have easier ways to change signal settings.

For OTA (over the air antenna signals), I recommend using the component settings.

If you are watching SD channels, this thread suggests changing the color space from native to auto.

In the future, I may be looking at the differences between using native color space and auto color space. And I may slightly tinker with the hdmi settings to get the average gamma closer to 2.5. If I do, I will definitely post the new settings in this thread.

As always,

Vincentfam

vincentfam

04-02-12, 09:39 PM

Greetings,

I changed the blu ray player's display signal from 720p to 1080i and used DVE's 720p sharpness pattern, which changed movie modes' settings. Here are my latest adjustments to sharpness:

hdmi standard: 2
hdmi movie: 20
component standard: 2
component movie: 12

I used the blu ray's 1080i setting during the calibration because this is the same setting for my set top box that may deliver the best picture.

Vincentfam

vincentfam

04-03-12, 05:29 AM

FYI,

It has been recommended in this forum by well respected calibrators that cell light setting should be 10, which I considered during the course of my DIY calibrations. I changed the cell settings for hdmi and component to level or flatten out the gamma curve.

Just thought you'd want to know.

Also, see updated sharpness settings for 1080i signals on page 41.

As always,

Vincentfam

vincentfam

04-05-12, 09:39 AM

Greetings Samsung PN**B450 Colleagues,

I have reviewed the latest (March 23 Updated) settings with the gamma level around 2.4 to 2.45. However, a thread in the AVS Forum recommended a gamma level of 2.5 in light controlled rooms. [See: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1008297]

Does anyone want me to try to increase the gamma levels to 2.5 and post those settings for component and hdmi?

As always,

Vincentfam

LDouglasLJr

04-05-12, 06:56 PM

If you want too vincent that would be great. :) I love how the set looks now so I can only imagine if that would make it look better.

All the tweaking you do is great and appreciated.

vincentfam

04-05-12, 10:18 PM

Greetings,

It took awhile to get a consistent 2.5 gamma level and the picture is a little dark, peak white = 20 ftl. Gamma and rgb graphs are attached. Also during calibration, I noticed some image retention that is not noticed during normal tv viewing. I am going to put a warning on all movie settings of potential image retention problems. The picture looks good but probably not that better than 2.4 gamma. The below settings are not recommended by me. However, if you want a ligther picture closer to 2.5 gamma, you may want to consider my March 12, 2012 movie settings for hdmi connections. Make sure you adjust sharpness settings.

If you want to know what a "gamma 2.5" looks like, here you go:

Warning: Potential Image Retention For Movie Mode

Movie

Average Gamma 2.50
Static Contrast Ratio 560:1
Peak White 20.8 ftl

movie mode
color tone warm2
cell light 6
contrast 71
brightness 57
sharpness 16
color 50
tint 49/51
Gamma -2
native color space
cuts Red 24 Green 24 Blue 27
Gain Red 29 Green 21 Blue 40
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

I am going back to my earlier settings.

As always,

Vincentfam

242758

242759

vincentfam

04-07-12, 10:06 AM

Greetings Colleagues,

Herein are the collective exhaustive settings for hdmi and component connections for movie and standard modes, using the ganging techniques and pop sharpness calibration, with average gamma levels close to recommended 2.5. These settings assume that your hdtv signal input is 1080i.

DIY tricks of the trade calibrations using eye one lt colorimeter and hcfr software, with DVE and 709 AVS Forum discs. Next project: varying the "black tone" for impact on picture quality - within two weeks.

Update: Turning ON Edge Enhancement may make improvement on picture.

Component Settings:

movie:

Warning: Potential Image Retention For Movie Mode

Average Gamma 2.43
Static Contrast Ratio 1032:1
Peak White 35.4 ftl

movie mode
color tone warm2
cell light 8
contrast 87
brightness 53
sharpness 11
color 50
tint 50/50
Gamma -1
native color space
cuts Red 25 Green 18 Blue 36
Gain Red 48 Green 30 Blue 50
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

standard:

Average Gamma 2.38
Static Contrast Ratio 1431:1
Peak White 43.6 ftl

standard mode
color tone normal
cell light 7
contrast 75
brightness 53
sharpness 2
color 51
tint 50/50
Gamma -3
native color space
cuts Red 6 Green 14 Blue 33
Gain Red 50 Green 43 Blue 44
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

HDMI Settings:

Movie

Warning: Potential Image Retention For Movie Mode

Average Gamma 2.47
Static Contrast Ratio 926:1
Peak White 33.9 ftl

movie mode
color tone warm2
cell light 8
contrast 86
brightness 53
sharpness 18
color 50
tint 50/50
Gamma -1
native color space
cuts Red 25 Green 21 Blue 31
Gain Red 44 Green 32 Blue 48
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

Standard

Average Gamma 2.41
Static Contrast Ratio 1118:1
Peak White 44.3 ftl

standard mode
color tone normal
cell light 7
contrast 74
brightness 53
sharpness 2
color 51
tint 50/50
Gamma -3
native color space
cuts Red 8 Green 18 Blue 34
Gain Red 47 Green 45 Blue 45
16:9
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

As always,

Vincentfam

vincentfam

04-08-12, 12:29 PM

Greetings,

[Edit: I am turning the black tone setting off due to some black crush issues, that is, losing detail in dark scenes. I may later turn it back on but to another level, like dark or darker, to avoid black crush. Remember, adjustment to the black tone setting may also require adjusting color and tint settings.]

Just when you thought things couldn't improve . . .

While waiting for the inlaws over for dinner this evening, I thought I would look at the impact of changing the black tone on possible picture quality. After turning the black tone to "darkest", here is what I found:

Static Contrast Ratios increased slightly
No impact on gamma levels
No impact on sharpness settings
Slight impact on rgb levels for standard mode/component connection
Impact on color/tint settings

For Component Connections:
Movie Mode: Color 54, Tint 49/51
Standard Mode: Color 54, Tint 52/48

For HDMI Connections:
Movie Mode: Color 52, Tint 50/50
Standard Mode: Color 52, Tint 50/50

Additionally, sometimes I turn on the edge enhancement for a slightly better picture, but it's not necessary.

As always,

Vincentfam

vincentfam

04-11-12, 09:13 PM

Greetings,

New settings for black tone adjustments:

I set the black tone to “dark” and had little or no black crush issues, but had to change color and tint settings. Also, I changed the picture size to screen fit for hdmi and component inputs and had to adjust sharpness. I do not prefer screen fit because it may be shutting off IR protection. Edge enhancement turned off. Picture improved.

Changes to Exhaustive Settings

TV Input

Use exhaustive component settings. This input may not allow screen fit. If that is the case, do not adjust sharpness.

Standard Mode:
Sharpness: 2 (Use 1 if pic size is screen fit)
Color 51
Tint 52/48
Black Tone: Dark
Picture Size: 16:9

Movie Mode:
Sharpness: 12 (Use 9 if pic size is screen fit)
Color 52
Tint 52/48
Black Tone: Dark
Picture Size: 16:9

Component Input

Use exhaustive component settings. This input allows screen fit, so adjust sharpness if using screen fit as follows:

Standard Mode:
Sharpness: 1, if using screen fit
Color 51
Tint 52/48
Black Tone: Dark
Picture Size: Screen Fit

Movie Mode:
Sharpness: 9, if using screen fit
Color 52
Tint 52/48
Black Tone: Dark
Picture Size: Screen Fit

HDMI Input

Use exhaustive hdmi settings. This input allows screen fit, so adjust sharpness if using screen fit as follows:

Standard Mode:
Sharpness: 1, if using screen fit
Color 51
Tint 49/51
Black Tone: Dark
Picture Size: Screen Fit

Movie Mode:
Sharpness: 16, if using screen fit
Color 51
Tint 50/50
Black Tone: Dark
Picture Size: Screen Fit

I think the pictures have a little more punch.

As always,

Vincentfam

vincentfam

04-12-12, 09:56 AM

Greetings,

Per either this forum or a samsung website, a benefit of the black tone setting is to add depth to the picture. However, too much darkness may lead to black crush.

The most recent settings regarding the "black tone dilemma," set at the dark setting, actually look pretty good and, I think, add a little more pop and less black crush than the "darkest" setting.

As always,

Vincentfam

vincentfam

04-12-12, 07:33 PM

How's the picture(s)?

Vincentfam

LDouglasLJr

04-12-12, 08:16 PM

I actually just got home not too long ago. Just put the settings in. Picture looks fine the little I got to watch so far. After I get the kids to bed I'm planning on watching a movie so I'll get a better feel for the picture then.

Really appreciate all the tweaking you do to this set. :)

vincentfam

04-13-12, 04:21 PM

LDouglasLJr,

I think that I did all the tweaking that I can do with my limited DIY knowledge of calibration. I hope that you enjoy the tv. If I think of any thing else, of course, I will post it.

As always,

Vincentfam

LDouglasLJr

04-13-12, 06:19 PM

I enjoy this set, even though it's only a 720P one. I've never had an issue with that though.

You've sure done a lot of tweaking that's for sure.

vincentfam

04-15-12, 08:04 PM

Greetings,

Just when you thought there would be no more tweaks for this tv, yet here is another one. The major change with this calibration is that black tone was changed to "darkest" to obtain the deepest blacks, and contrast increase to give proper brightness level per DVE pluge pattern (calibration jargon).

Better contrast ratio. I just had to do it, kinda burnt out doing my taxes.

Also attached are rgb and gamma graphs:

Standard hdmi

Average Gamma 2.34
Static Contrast Ratio 1332:1
Peak white: 50.5 ftl

standard mode
color tone normal
cell light 7
contrast 80
brightness 53
sharpness 0
color 52
tint 49/51
BLACK TONE: DARKEST
Gamma -3
native color space
cuts Red 6 Green 13 Blue 26
Gain Red 49 Green 43 Blue 43
screen fit
hdmi black level: low
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

Other modes/inputs will be updated next weekend.

As always,

Vincentfam

243685

243686

LDouglasLJr

04-15-12, 08:11 PM

lol Nice vincent, I knew you couldn't stop ;)

I'll be trying these out tonight while watching some movies. Will let you know in the AM how it looks.

LDouglasLJr

04-16-12, 05:59 PM

I got to setup my tv last night with these newest settings and watching Doctor Who looked very good last night. Now granted I did have all the lights off but I won't complain about that.

vincentfam

04-16-12, 10:10 PM

Greetings,

Here are the updated Standard Component Settings where Black Tone is set to darkest. Please note that Sharpness is set to 0 for both hdmi and component settings for standard mode.

Good Black levels

Average Gamma 2.38
Static Contrast Ratio 1422:1
Peak White 47.8 ftl

standard mode
color tone normal
cell light 7
contrast 79
brightness 53
sharpness 0
color 51
tint 50/50
Black Tone Darkness
Gamma -3
native color space
cuts Red 11 Green 17 Blue 28
Gain Red 50 Green 41 Blue 44
screen fit
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

Movie mode settings will be a little more complicated and done over the weekend.

Vincentfam

LDouglasLJr

04-17-12, 07:54 AM

Will be trying these out tonight. So far out of all the tweaks you've done, which one has been your favorite? Is it these most current ones?

vincentfam

04-17-12, 10:37 AM

Actually, the ones I like best are the component settings with black tone set at darkest level. This allows the deepest blacks with increased static contrast ratio (higher peak white). I use the hdmi input for blu ray.

The movie mode settings with black tone @ darkest will be a little more difficult because I may have to increase the contrast level to have proper brightness level per DVE's pluge pattern. Increasing contrast too much may introduce other colors like a tinted red, etc. Also, decreasing brightness too much may cause a "popping." That's when it appears that the black areas in the picture are blinking.

LDouglasLJr

04-17-12, 01:11 PM

I'm curious to try these component settings out tonight. I know the HDMI settings looked great while I've been watching Doctor Who and playing games on my PS3.

I've grown more partial to the Standard over Movie mode anymore but mainly due to increased IR from that setting.

vincentfam

04-17-12, 08:37 PM

Greetings;

Here are settings for component input movie mode with Black Tone set at Darkest setting. Easier than I thought. Major change from earlier settings is picture setting of screen fit, which changed the sharpness setting. Let me know if you want me to post hdmi movie mode setting at darkest black tone.

Good Black levels

Edit: Noticed some image retention issues. My preference is Standard Mode.

Average Gamma 2.44
Static Contrast Ratio 1021:1
Peak White 34.8 ftl

movie mode
color tone warm2
cell light 8
contrast 86
brightness 53
sharpness 7
color 52
tint 52/48
blacktone darkest
Gamma -1
native color space
cuts Red 25 Green 26 Blue 19
Gain Red 45 Green 35 Blue 50
screen fit
All other enhancements off, including edge enhancement

Vincentfam