From a U.K. Royal TV Society Magazine article (archived, Vol. 46:1, 1/2009):
http://www.rts.org.uk/Info_page_two_pic_2_det.asp?art_id=7519&sec_id=3739
Excerpt:“German producers prefer the high frame rate and clean pictures of 1080p/50 for high-end drama and documentaries, whereas UK and US producers favour the grainy, filmic look of slower frame rates for those genres,”
Note: Thread title would include capture and delivery . -- John

Any chance that if the Olympics are in Chicago in 2016 that someone somewhere in the US might be actually able to receive and view an uncompressed 1080p/60 broadcast?

The satellite provider COMPRESSORS par excelance will probably claim that it would cause the end of civilization!

They'll probably be showing 1,000 channels of HD by then that will barely be better than DVD!

I think that that article slighly muddies the waters. (The RTS is a great organisation - but isn't famous for its technical writing. It's a general industry organisation rather than a technical one)

Sky are indeed talkabout about specing 1080p50 (aka 1080/50p) compatible gear for their new studio complex, and I've heard that they are talking to their outside broadcast suppliers about migrating to 3G (which is required for 1080p50 uncompressed routing) infrastructure, and 1080p50 capture, at some point in the future.

I'd heard that there was a lot of discussion about whether the Olympics (some or all events) would be captured 1080p50.

Anyone building a new HD studio or truck will at least be considering installing 3G routing and infrastructure to allow for migration to 1080p50, and will have to have a very good reason to not use 3G.

However the differences between 1080p50 and 1080i25 are not as marked as the differences between 1080p50 and 1080p25 - and I'm not sure the article emphasises that enough. (The article doesn't really emphasise that although interlaced capture is 25 frames per second, it isn't 25 image captures per second, but 50, so gives similar motion rendition, albeit less detailed on movement as 1080p50)

The real issue for 1080i25 (aka 1080/50i) capture is that modern progressive displays have to de-interlace to 1080p50 (aka 1080/50p), which is not a perfect technique, and is expensive to do well. The 1080p50 image is also likely to be sharper on static information than a 1080i25/1080/50i image as there won't be line-offset line-pairing used to create the fields - which adds some pre-filter to reduce interlace twitter

The article also seems to confuse the 1080p24 VOD available in the US, and on Blu-ray, with higher frame rate capture... (1080p25 can be carried lossless and de-interlaced losslessly in a 1080i25 chain - unlike 1080p50, which has to be interlaced and de-interlaced lossily)

Some countries prefer documentaries shot with a higher image rate (I try to avoid using the word frame as it can confuse) as they have a more realistic or "fluid" look. Japan, and apparently Germany, spring to mind. At the moment the only way of achieving this fluid motion with current 1.5G technology is to use 50Hz/60Hz interlaced capture at 1920x1080, or 50/60Hz progressive at the reduced frame resolution of 1280x720. Apart from Sweden and Italy - where some 720p is used, most other European countries are 1920x1080 only - so use 50Hz interlaced capture.

I'm surprised about the comments about German high-end drama - almost all non-soap German drama I've seen has been shot 25fps film (the main German public service broadcasters - ARD and ZDF - are both available FTA and viewable in the UK).

I wasn't aware of their high-end stuff being shot on 50Hz interlaced video (or 50Hz progressive at a lower resolution)

1080 Progressive has to be the way to go for capture - for sports you'll get clearer slow motion replays for instance, as you won't have interlace to contend with. Whether it is used for emission anytime soon will be interesting.

I don't believe it is currrently part of the new Freeview HD standard being introduced in the UK this year - which is going to use a much newer modulation system (DVB-T2 - which increases the number of COFDM carriers from 2k or 8k to 32k, and from 16QAM and 64QAM to 256QAM - allowing 36Mbs payload to be carried in a UK RF channel, rather than the 18-24Mbs we currently have with DVB-T) However I don't believe the H264 profiles mandated for this are going to include a 1080p50 profile...

It is annoying - both my PS3 and my HTPC are running 1080p50 (or 1080p60 or 1080p24) to my TV already via HDMI, so the final link in the chain is there already... The origination link is now becoming feasible - with both Thomson and Sony now offering system cameras with 1080p50 output at the CCU (i.e. getting it down a cable) rather than just having dual-link 1.5G paired outputs at the camera head.

Any chance that if the Olympics are in Chicago in 2016 that someone somewhere in the US might be actually able to receive and view an uncompressed 1080p/60 broadcast?

The satellite provider COMPRESSORS par excelance will probably claim that it would cause the end of civilization!

They'll probably be showing 1,000 channels of HD by then that will barely be better than DVD!

The only place you're likely to see any HDTV (1080i, 1080p or 720p) uncompressed is in the production vehicle or studio control room. It will be compressed when it is recorded to broadcast tape or disc (at rates between 25Mbs and around 440Mbs), and in many (but not all cases - some uncompressed fibre is available between certain sites) it will be compressed for backhaul (on live shows) to the network control room. It will certainly have to be compressed for broadcast - on satellite, cable or OTA.

Back of envelope calcs :

If you accept 1920x1080 4:2:0 8 bit delivery (i.e. half vertical and half horizontal res chroma - i.e. 12 bits of luma/chroma per luma sample site) then 60p requires 1.5Gbs (studios use 4:2:2 8 bit or 10 bit which increases this to 2.5Gbs i.e. 20 bits of luma/chroma per luma sample site) This is active video bit rate only (as used for emission) - in production routing you also use a higher bit rate as you also carry blanking as real data (allowing embedded audio etc.) not just the active video.

1.5Gbs for a 1080p60 4:2:0 8 bit image is far too high a data rate to broadcast OTA or via satellite. You can get around 70Mbs on a single satellite transponder (and that is pushing it) - and 19-50Mbs in an RF OTA channel (when you get above 36Mbs you probably need to start using multiple polarisations and dual antennae) You'd need to use 20 transponders on a satellite to carry a single uncompressed channel. The Astra satellites used in the UK have around 32 transponders on each satellite - that would allow you to just carry a SINGLE channel on a satellte if you ran uncompressed...

Even the Japanese/British/Italian Super HiVision tests at IBC were only use 140Mbs on two 70Mbs transponders to carry a single 7680/60p signal - and that starts at around 24Gbs... (7680x4320 at 60 frames progressive)

You're not going to be able to broadcast uncompressed HD OTA or via satellite feasibly. The only possible technology would be fibre - but the benefits of uncompressed over compressed aren't enough to ever require this as a direct to home delivery system. Blu-ray is massively compressed - and people seem to think it is pretty good... (It just isn't quite as compressed as OTA and satellite)

The problem isn't compressed vs uncompressed - it is overly compressed and multiple code/decodes concatenated vs lightly compressed and less concatenation that is the issue.

You can deliver good 720p50 and 1080i25 images using H264 compression at <20Mbs - and at <30Mbs you will get cracking images.

It would be interesting to see the same content delivered 1080p50 (aka 1080/50p) native compared to 1080i25 (aka 1080/50i) delivery de-interlaced to 1080p50 - side by side on identical displays.

^^^Agree, it would be interesting, especially after switching here from ~10 years of interlace viewing with a CRT RPTV, mostly 1080/60i from a cable STB output, to progressive display on a plasma (Panasonic TH-65VX100U) with a good deinterlacer. More interesting, IMO, would be some movement to delivering dramas at 1080/p50/p60 as well as other HDTV (per my OP quote), versus today's mostly 24p/25p drama with pulldown (repeated frames in order to match broadcast frequencies). -- John

^^^Agree, it would be interesting, especially after switching here from ~10 years of interlace viewing with a CRT RPTV, mostly 1080/60i from a cable STB output, to progressive display on a plasma (Panasonic TH-65VX100U) with a good deinterlacer. More interesting, IMO, would be some movement to delivering dramas at 1080/p50/p60 as well as other HDTV (per my OP quote), versus today's mostly 24p/25p drama with pulldown (repeated frames in order to match broadcast frequencies). -- John

I don't see drama making the switch from 24/25p to 50/60p anytime soon - in the UK or the US particularly. The UK has spent years shooting drama on 50i SD tape, and post-producing it to give it a 25p "film look" - as producers think the reduced temporal resolution of film has a "big budget" "Hollywood" feel. Watching other European dramas - this seems to be the case with these as well. (I'm not sure where the RTS article got the idea that German drama is shot 50Hz...) Japan is the only place I know of shooting high-budget TV drama at 60Hz - and possibly Korea?

There is also something in the argument that drama is about suspending disbelief, so giving content a slightly "different" look to "real life" assists in this.

Personally I love drama shot 50i - I think it has an immediacy and a reality that 25p stuff lacks - but I know many producers think that the higher temporal resolution screams "soap" and avoid it like the plague.

A number of soaps in Australia have switched from SD 50i to HD 25p for this reason I believe - and some in the UK have switched from a 50i look to a 25p look as well. (The two main weekly BBC hospital dramas - Casualty and Holby - have both switched from 50i SD native broadcast to shooting 50i SD and post-producing to give the content a 25p look. Holby had previously trialled 50i HD production for a block - downconverting the HD rushes to 50i SD for post-production - but if/when it goes HD properly I'm sure it will be shot 25p native now. I think it's a shame personally - as both shows looked very "real" in 50i - and had a strong sense of reality about them.)

Doctor Who similarly - the original series was shot 50i SD video, and location 25Hz film, with some location-based 50i video in the 70s, and a lot more in the 80s. When the series returned a few years ago, it was shot entirely 50i SD video, but post-produced to give it a 25p motion character. The most recent "special" was shot 25p 1080p native - as the first HD episode of the series.

^^^Thus my hope for "some movement", not a "switch," from 24p/25p for dramas to 1080/50p/60p. Producers/directors/DOP's didn't--and still don't--have the hardware, including routine ~3 Gbps production support, to create dramas at the higher frame rates/resolutions. That may well change as the new equipment arrives. -- John

^^^Thus my hope for "some movement", not a "switch," from 24p/24p for dramas to 1080/50p/60p. Producers/directors/DOP's didn't--and still don't--have the hardware, including routine ~3 Gbps production support, to create dramas at the higher frame rates/resolutions. That may well change as the new equipment arrives. -- John

However they've had the equipment for 1080i at 50/60Hz for two decades (although it only became really usable about a decade ago) for longer than they've had 24p - but they stuck with 35/16mm film until 24p video came along because they wanted the "look" of the lower frame rate that 24Hz acquisition gives.

It's the same reason that SD video drama has switched from 50i to 50i "flickered" to give it a 25p look (or been used to replace 25Hz Super 16) in parts of Europe.

Whilst a few DoPs and Producers/Directors may embrace higher frame rates - the industry perception that 24/25Hz has a "Hollywood high budget" look and 50/60Hz has a "cheap soap" look will be very difficult to challenge.

^^^The author of the Society article, I believe, made the point, that's frequently mentioned in AVS threads, that interlace capture hasn't been suitable for most international conversions. That would change with higher frame rate progressive capture. (Yes, I know, :-), now it's time to dispute that.) It remains to be seen, if 1080/50p/60p becomes widespread, how long 24p/25p capture, or 'flickerized' interlace-capture conversions, is predominant for dramas. -- John

^^^The author of the Society article, I believe, made the point, that's frequently mentioned in AVS threads, that interlace capture hasn't been suitable for most international conversions.


AIUI that's a slight cultural misunderstanding. It isn't interlace vs progressive - it is 24/25 vs 60/50

In the UK progressive=25p. We don't have any 720/50p to speak of - the only progressive format in use is 25p.

This can easily be converted for international sale to 60Hz territories by slow-down to 24p and then 3:2 pull-down.

Similarly 24p can be sped-up to 25p and then 2:2 pull-down applied to go the other way.

When many people talk about "shooting progressive for ease of international sales" they mean shooting 24/25p.

The frame rate conversion from 50p to 60p or 60p to 50p is pretty similar to that of 50i to 60i or 60i to 50i - you just skip the interlacing bits... The problems of frame rate interpolation and motion tracking remain.


That would change with higher frame rate progressive capture. (Yes, I know, :-), now it's time to dispute that.)


50p/60p conversion is pretty much as difficult as 50i/60i. Until we start shooting 300p - or move to a common frame rate - it is always going to be a problem... The only benefit is the drop of interlace - and the improvement in resolution that results.


It remains to be seen, if 1080/50p/60p becomes widespread, how long 24p/25p capture, or 'flickerized' interlace-capture conversions, is predominant for dramas. -- John

50i to 25p flickering in post is only used in SD (it is prohibited by most broadcasters for HD commissions due to the resolution issues) - and SD is going to die out soon. 25p native acquisition is the UK standard for all drama shot HD. Don't think I know of a single drama shooting 1080/50i.

I see the current 50/60Hz for sport, news and entertainment, and some music and docs - and 25/24Hz for movies, drama, and other music and docs continuing for a while yet.

Sit com is interesting though - quite a few UK sitcoms have switched from 25p to 50i (after switching from 50i to 25p in some cases)...

AIUI that's a slight cultural misunderstanding. It isn't interlace vs progressive - it is 24/25 vs 60/50
Not here. That was my point. So, again, when 50p/60p becomes readily available, it may gradually replace 24p/25p.

Some AVS posts have cited director Cameron's [Titanic, etc.) writings about his preference for 48 fps. Doubt he's the only one interested in adapting higher frame rates. -- John

Not here. That was my point. So, again, when 50p/60p becomes readily available, it may gradually replace 24p/25p.


But adopting 50/60p does re-introduce the 50 vs 60 conversion problems that 24/25 have - to a degree - removed.


Some AVS posts have cited director Cameron's [Titanic, etc.) writings about his preference for 48 fps. Doubt he's the only one interested in adapting higher frame rates. -- John

Cameron has an interest in high-action genre content - and 48fps would no doubt improve these. I'm not sure how widespread the support will be for non-3D 48fps stuff (where you have 24fps for each eye!) - though with digital acquisition and digital projection the costs of processing/duplication/distrbiution no longer have to double as the frame rate doubles - as they would with 35mm.

There have been historical experiments with >24 fps film production - but none of them have really gone that far. (There was some 30fps stuff used in US TV production ISTR - Max Headroom? - that avoided shutter bars on in-vision CRTs - without requiring 48i video to feed them)

It really is a cultural thing. The culture in US/UK drama has become :

24/25 Good = Expensive Looking = High Budget = High-end Drama and docs
50/60 Bad = Cheap Looking = Low Budget = Low-end Soap and Sitcom

I've had discussions with producers looking at 50i stuff and the same stuff converted to 25p - and they've all said that the 25p version looks more "filmic" - which is what they want.

I like this technique when it is used intelligently - say a live or as-live show with 50Hz "video" motion on the studio presenters, but the pre-recorded inserts with a 25Hz "film look" - it can really enhance a show. I've also seen it applied stupidly - say when sports coverage shot 50i has been flickered in post to give it a 25p look (a previous season of a BBC skiing show was a culprit of this) and this can look really nasty.

It is crazy that we are embracing a technical limitation or artefact (generated by a desire to spend as little money per second as possible in film stock terms) and using it as something to be embraced and aspired to...

Personally - and this is entirely personal - I like drama with a 50/60Hz look. I think some of the video drama shot in studios and on location in the 70s and 80s works really well. Ironically it is the video costume drama that really does it for me. By seeing it with fluid 50/60Hz motion and vivid "real" colours it feels more real and more authentic to me, than the distancing, unreal, 24/25Hz motion portrayal of film or modern 24/25p video.

But adopting 50/60p does re-introduce the 50 vs 60 conversion problems that 24/25 have - to a degree - removed.
Seems too early to suggest conversion problems that can't be solved. As the TV Society piece noted, they'd no longer involve de-interlacing.

Cameron has an interest in high-action genre content - and 48fps would no doubt improve these. I'm not sure how widespread the support will be for non-3D 48fps stuff (where you have 24fps for each eye!) - though with digital acquisition and digital projection the costs of processing/duplication/distrbiution no longer have to double as the frame rate doubles - as they would with 35mm. Just mentioned him as one example of higher frame rate interest. Again, no doubt there are others.

It really is a cultural thing. The culture in US/UK drama has become :

24/25 Good = Expensive Looking = High Budget = High-end Drama and docs
50/60 Bad = Cheap Looking = Low Budget = Low-end Soap and Sitcom.
Don't buy the premises. New technology (higher HD frame rates) becoming routinely available could rapidly change opinions. The views could well be reversed, with 24p/25p becoming archaic, clackety, and cheap looking.

But adopting 50/60p does re-introduce the 50 vs 60 conversion problems that 24/25 have - to a degree - removed.



Yes people forget the whole purpose of 24P video was to have an international standard. 50p/60p is right back to the old 525i/625i problems. For sports 60P will become commen place but not for drama.

Note too that European (not counitng Britian) and American cultures are different when it comes to TV viewing. Americans love their dramas and sitcoms. Europeans love their sports even more than Americans. So it's no surprise that Europe is pushing 50p as their perferred standard. I sat through a paper by the head of the EBU and it was all about 50P and sports.

Seems too early to suggest conversion problems that can't be solved. As the TV Society piece noted, they'd no longer involve de-interlacing.

You'd still have to produce or lose 10 frames a second and that's the hard bit. In fact, it is worse than that, you're dealing with 9.94 frames a second :)

Don't buy the premises. New technology (higher HD frame rates) becoming routinely available could rapidly change opinions. The views could well be reversed, with 24p/25p becoming archaic, clackety, and cheap looking.

In the UK, we had the exact opposite happen. TV went from a situation were the vast majority of drama was shot on 50i video to it all being made on film, then back to 50i video but effected to 25p (with varying degrees of success), to producing everything on 25p HD. Some shows have gone through just about every combination (I don't think there is a production method Last of the Summer Wine hasn't used except 35mm). It's also interesting that there was a huge public outcry when Casualty (BBC Continuing drama) switched from 50i to 25p in the 1990s (so much so that I believe the show was very quickly re-editted in 50i form) and I believe Emmerdale (a soap) faced the same problem in the early 2000s. However, Casualty has now successfully switched to 25p.

I'm not sure where I stand on the frame rate issue, I probably tend towards the film look, but mainly for things other than frame rate. The problem is people shoot 50Hz drama in a very different manner to 25p drama and I think it is the difference in shooting style that makes it look cheaper, not the medium.

Although I suspect once 50p production becomes simple -- all drama will be shot 50p, even if it is eventually strobed to 25p. Simply because it makes it much easier to overcrank the images in post later.


Steven

Seems too early to suggest conversion problems that can't be solved. As the TV Society piece noted, they'd no longer involve de-interlacing.


Not really - the fundamental problem with standards conversion is the 50/60Hz issue - not the interlaced progressive one. You have similar problems converting between 720/50p and 720/60p as you do with 1080/50i and 1080/60i - though the 1080i issue is more common as 1080i is the more prevalent international production standard (and more widespread for broadcast as well)

Most 1080/50i and 60i conversions are actually based around 1080/50p and 60p conversions - with the converters first de-interlacing from 1080i to 1080p, then frame rate converting the 1080p stream and re-interlacing (or scaling to 720p as applicable)

The fundamental issue is that 50<->60 conversion requires an entirely new frame sequence to be interpolated - based on motion detection and tracking, and frame reconstruction. This can inevitably cause picture quality issues - as even the most sophisticated algorithm can be defeated - particularly on fast and random movement.

25<->24 conversion is usually based around 1:1 frame mapping and speed changes with pitch correction - so has no picture quality issues - as you aren't touching the pictures.


Just mentioned him as one example of higher frame rate interest. Again, no doubt there are others.


Yep - though whether they become the mainstream anytime soon... I'm not sure. There is huge inertia in the "film look".


Don't buy the premises. New technology (higher HD frame rates) becoming routinely available could rapidly change opinions. The views could well be reversed, with 24p/25p becoming archaic, clackety, and cheap looking.

I think it will depend on cinema projection technology embracing the new frame rates. At the moment the only driving force for D-Cinema at 48fps is 3D (where you have 24fps for each eye). I'm not sure that even the new standards include 2D frame rates above 24p do they - though the HD "Events" broadcasts - like the Met Opera may challenge this?

Super HiVision could be an issue as well...

I think the merits of 50p over 50i for the end user may not be apparent enough to warrant a change in transmission tech - though upstream in the production chain they do have benefits (slow motion for sport being an obvious example)

I'd be more interested in native 100/120p production to be honest - as the benefits over 50 or 60i/p are more apparent than between i and p at the same image rate.

You'd still have to produce or lose 10 frames a second and that's the hard bit. In fact, it is worse than that, you're dealing with 9.94 frames a second :)


Yep - interlacing is the least of your problems in 50/60 conversion...

It's also interesting that there was a huge public outcry when Casualty (BBC Continuing drama) switched from 50i to 25p in the 1990s (so much so that I believe the show was very quickly re-editted in 50i form) and I believe Emmerdale (a soap) faced the same problem in the early 2000s. However, Casualty has now successfully switched to 25p.


To be fair - the initial problem with Casualty was that the 50i to 25p conversion applied was SOOO bad, basically just a field-replication algorithm and not much else. This gave it a very jagged and low resolution quality, and the guys shooting it weren't shooting for 25p - so the motion judder was more marked than it should have been. The lighting and everything else were pretty much left as is, so it didn't have a "film look" it had a "faulty video" look - and people told the BBC that... The process was ditched after just a couple of episodes (not sure if they had to re-edit or just stopped passing it through the DVE that did the effect - I think it was done in Charisma or similar)

More recently Casualty and Holby have re-introduced the 25p look (applying it to 50i SD acquired content) but they have a much better 50i to 25p conversion process, and are now lighting and grading for a "film look" - as well as shooting with 25Hz motion in mind. (No fast pans etc.)

I think Emmerdale trialled the "film look" on a special or two - rather than normal episodes - and it too wasn't a brilliantly implemented version.



I'm not sure where I stand on the frame rate issue, I probably tend towards the film look, but mainly for things other than frame rate. The problem is people shoot 50Hz drama in a very different manner to 25p drama and I think it is the difference in shooting style that makes it look cheaper, not the medium.



Yep - I tend to agree. The frame rate does have an effect - but often the bigger change is from multicamera (compromised lighting and cameras on studio peds) to single camera (optimised lighting and cameras on more accurate and stable mountings) is the bigger change - and that has nothing to do with frame rate. Putting stuff through a grade helps.

The League of Gentlemen was a nice example - mix of studio multicamera and location single camera - but the film effect and grade applied to both worked really well. When you see the 50i studio rushes you can see they took a lot of care with the lighting.


Although I suspect once 50p production becomes simple -- all drama will be shot 50p, even if it is eventually strobed to 25p. Simply because it makes it much easier to overcrank the images in post later.


Yep - I can see that becoming a workflow - allowing smooth slow-mos to be applied in post with few problems.

I know that this is one of the perceived advantages of the P2 Varicams over the DVCProHD variants - as the P2 is much easier to edit with off-speed rushes and doesn't require extra hardware to cope with them?

I've never seen uncompressed 1080p/60.

How good would something like that look?

I've never seen uncompressed 1080p/60.

How good would something like that look?

I've seen (I assume lightly compressed - though it may have been uncompressed) 1080/100p during the BBC demo of higher frame rates at IBC. The improvement of resolution on moving content - particularly fast moving background content when following a foreground moving object - was massive when compared to 1080/25p and 1080/50p.

Just to update - the BBC White Paper on frame rates has been published now.

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp-pdf-files/WHP169.pdf

It details the research they did with 300Hz capture - then used to create and display 100Hz, 50Hz and 25Hz sequences (in some cases simulating a 50% shutter)

Might be of interest - particularly to John Mason?

^^^Thanks. Interesting. Temporal oversampling/downconversion at 300 fps! Now if they're really using ~4k RED digital-cinema cameras for the new series here, Southland (Los Angeles cops), which has lots of motion shots, maybe they'll try blending two types of oversampling. (Just some hyperbole.)-- John

I think it will depend on cinema projection technology embracing the new frame rates. At the moment the only driving force for D-Cinema at 48fps is 3D (where you have 24fps for each eye).
3D isn't always 24fps per eye. Cameron wants, and has done tests on 48fps stereoscopic per eye.

From the Cameron interview article:
I've run tests on 48 frame per second stereo and it is stunning. The cameras can do it, the projectors can (with a small modification) do it

I'm not sure that even the new standards include 2D frame rates above 24p do they - though the HD "Events" broadcasts - like the Met Opera may challenge this?

According to Cameron:-
The DLP chip in our current generation of digital projectors can currently run up to 144 frames per second, and they are still being improved. The maximum data rate currently supports stereo at 24 frames per second or 2-D at 48 frames per second. So right now, today, we could be shooting 2-D movies at 48 frames and running them at that speed. This alone would make 2-D movies look astonishingly clear and sharp, at very little extra cost, with equipment that's already installed or being installed.
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117983864.html

But I thought the new digital cinema standards (DC28) might be going to use some additional frame rates, like those proposed by IMAGO like 1080p50 and 1080p60.
http://www.edcf.net/edcf_docs/IMAGO_FrameRates_DC28_20060728_slides.pdf
http://www.edcf.net/edcf_docs/IMAGO_frame_rates_text_DC28_20060728_text.pdf

And according to one website, "The IMAGO frame rate proposals have been officially introduced into the SMPTE working process".

3D isn't always 24fps per eye. Cameron wants, and has done tests on 48fps stereoscopic per eye.

Interesting stuff snipped.



Yep - I suspect that the 144fps capable projector may have been similar to the one the BBC ran at 100fps for their tests? (The Beeb used a Christie I think)

My understanding was that the current D-Cinema specs being used at the moment only included 24fps for 2D and 48fps for 3D (each eye at 24p) - and that is what current production support.

Whether the D-Cinema "standards" (if they really are standards yet?) are evolved to incude >24fps for 2D and 3D stuff (per eye) is up for discussion I guess.

However given that many cinemas are already showing >24fps stuff already - such as live sports and opera shot at 50 and 60Hz - there is obviously scope for this.

How many major Hollywood players, other than Cameron, back >24fps production I don't know though...

Personally I think it would be a great development - once you've seen Super HiVision - which is 60p at 7680x4320 - you know that standard cinema is lacking something... But changing the culture is the key.

Once people get used to shooting not to 35mm or to tape, but instead as data, then you have a chance I suspect - though there is a huge "emotional" investment in the 24fps "look" of film among many in the industry. Cameron obviously isn't one of them!

See
http://www.smpte.org/news/pr/view?item_key=460b9f2707af05257ba9de20cd6d1e8f9a7aceee
Thanks to Joe Bloggs' (etc.) finds here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16383583&postcount=133), plus another article link. -- John