Wasn't it Braveheart that he mentioned was the Benchmark? Does anyone have the before and after text?

:D big laugh, first it was the Benchmark of the BD format and now its an manipulated DNR and EE affair..
Along with some jabs directed at the people who are actually bothered by the DNR and EE. Wonderful. And he still claims it's superior to the unmolested cable version that uses the same master.
Wasn't it Braveheart that he mentioned was the Benchmark? Does anyone have the before and after text?
No, he reviewed Gladiator before he reviewed Braveheart and the Gladiator review was full of nothing but superlatives when talking about the video quality.

are UK versions out yet? any differences or reviews?

:D big laugh, first it was the Benchmark of the BD format and now its an manipulated DNR and EE affair..

too funny. ;)

Along with some jabs directed at the people who are actually bothered by the DNR and EE. Wonderful.


In all fairness, people here have given him a few jabs along with an uppercut and a left hook.

I do wonder what the reviewer will think of the disc next week. That right there was a two-hit combo. :/

No, he reviewed Gladiator before he reviewed Braveheart and the Gladiator review was full of nothing but superlatives when talking about the video quality.

I read the original review, and you're absolutely right - there wasn't anything in there at all about any video problems whatsoever. He was practically gushing and proclaimed the Sapphire Series to be the new mark of BR perfection.

Hate to say it but, even though I'll still value the site for its healthy use of screenshots, DVDBeaver has lost all credibility with me after this (embarrassingly revised) sorry excuse for a review. I may not even use their Amazon support links anymore; Gary Tooze should be ashamed.

Yeah, I like their site for the screens and stuff but if they can't properly scrutinize a movie that is so blatantly heavily manipulated that major areas of its image (spears and arrows during battle scenes for example) have been scrubbed completely out of existence it makes you question their ability to size up image quality. I'm never one to go way over the top with pissing and moaning about video releases (I say if you don't like it, don't buy - simple) but it doesn't get any more obvious than this release, it's practically textbook. I mean, honestly, portions of the image have been knocked out of existence, EE is so heavily administered that it makes certain things look like heavenly apparitions due to the halos, etc. It's virtually identical to the HD broadcast version sent through a series of digital manipulations. For a PQ review site to see this and call it "A benchmark release" in any sense is just nutty. There's really no way around it.

Hate to say it but, even though I'll still value the site for its healthy use of screenshots, DVDBeaver has lost all credibility with me after this (embarrassingly revised) sorry excuse for a review. I may not even use their Amazon support links anymore; Gary Tooze should be ashamed.

This bit hasn't been revised...


NOTE:
We added (thanks Enrico!) the HDTV 1080i / aspect ratio - 1.78.1 open matted, audio - Dolby digital 5.1, no subtitles image from HBO for interest sake. It looks marvelous (added: but the Blu-ray is far better).

the Blu ray is FAR better...

sigh...

This bit hasn't been revised...


NOTE:
We added (thanks Enrico!) the HDTV 1080i / aspect ratio - 1.78.1 open matted, audio - Dolby digital 5.1, no subtitles image from HBO for interest sake. It looks marvelous (added: but the Blu-ray is far better).

the Blu ray is FAR better...

sigh...

That was there 1 or 2 days ago. I think some other stuff was changed more recently unless i've only ever seen the revised version of the review.

yeah. I mean parts were revised but this is still there. How anyone with eyes can think the BD looks better than the open matte version is beyond me....

(edited: apparently they were comparing to downscaled image captures...)

yeah. I mean parts were revised but this is still there. How anyone with eyes can think the BD looks better than the open matte version is beyond me....

Have you watched both to compare?

some here have. ask eric.exe.

I have also shot, edited and done negative cutting on film, own a 16mm camera and know exactly how film looks. Used to shoot industrials on film before switching to video due to cost and convenience. That BD isn't representative of how film looks. I also use photoshop when shooting stills and am well aware what different filters do to an image. It ain't rocket science....

To be fair,

(1) The reviewer, Gary Tooze, doesn't actually have the HDTV capture for comparison. He's comparing to the downscaled images provided by "Enrico E", which have been on that page since 2004. (http://web.archive.org/web/20041210230917/http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare7/gladiator.htm)

(2) The painted-out arrows, etc. very likely aren't visible in motion. Nobody complained about the missing details on the Danish Pulp Fiction Blu-ray, and I have screencaps that show many more painted-out objects on that release than what we've seen on Gladiator.

To be fair,

(1) The reviewer, Gary Tooze, doesn't actually have the HDTV capture for comparison. He's comparing to the downscaled images provided by "Enrico E", which have been on that page since 2004. (http://web.archive.org/web/20041210230917/http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare7/gladiator.htm)


fair enough.

(2) The painted-out arrows, etc. very likely aren't visible in motion. Nobody complained about the missing details on the Danish Pulp Fiction Blu-ray, and I have screencaps that show many more painted-out objects on that release than what we've seen on Gladiator. In motion you can see the smoke trails so you know something is flying but they are much harder to make out, you really can only see a few big fireballs flying, so the scale of the attack doesn't look as impressive.

A member on my forum got an answer from Paramount where they insert a review, can you guys make out where the rewiev is copypasted from??:rolleyes::rolleyes::)



Gladiator does not hit the stores until September 1st , what are you watching. Here is a review from someone that has seen the movie.


"Truly this is an incredible digital achievement. Paramount's MPEG4 AVC transfer seems to have improved in every single facet of the visuals. It's tighter, brighter, superior contrast... it is extremely impressive looking and I hope the captures below support this because this is one of the best looking Blu-rays I've seen this year. The DTS-HD Master 5.1 at a whopping 4404 kbps is ABSOLUTELY perfect.



I don't think I've ever seen supplements on this level. On disc 2 - your shopping list will enact through the Visions From Elysium portal. It's highly impressive - really a great interactive feature. Well, despite your opinions on the film or it's Oscar worthiness - this ParamountBlu-ray is in a class by itself. It's raised the bar for this new format. It covers every nook and cranny of desirability with a plethora of supplements and reference A/V. An unbelievable value for all that is included. I'd say this is possibly the best Blu-ray of the year but I'm just going over the 'Sapphire Series' Braveheart now and it seems equally triumphant. We give this our strongest recommendation."

Offcourse it's just a mediocre customer service but it was funny that they answered with the first draft from DVD Beaver.

A member on my forum got an answer from Paramount where they insert a review, can you guys make out where the rewiev is copypasted from??:rolleyes::rolleyes::)



Gladiator does not hit the stores until September 1st , what are you watching. Here is a review from someone that has seen the movie.


"Truly this is an incredible digital achievement. Paramount's MPEG4 AVC transfer seems to have improved in every single facet of the visuals. It's tighter, brighter, superior contrast... it is extremely impressive looking and I hope the captures below support this because this is one of the best looking Blu-rays I've seen this year. The DTS-HD Master 5.1 at a whopping 4404 kbps is ABSOLUTELY perfect.



I don't think I've ever seen supplements on this level. On disc 2 - your shopping list will enact through the Visions From Elysium portal. It's highly impressive - really a great interactive feature. Well, despite your opinions on the film or it's Oscar worthiness - this ParamountBlu-ray is in a class by itself. It's raised the bar for this new format. It covers every nook and cranny of desirability with a plethora of supplements and reference A/V. An unbelievable value for all that is included. I'd say this is possibly the best Blu-ray of the year but I'm just going over the 'Sapphire Series' Braveheart now and it seems equally triumphant. We give this our strongest recommendation."

Send them this link that shows what a travesty DNR really is.
HDTV vs Blu-ray (http://comparescreenshots.slicx.com/comparison/12353/picture:6)

Hate to say it but, even though I'll still value the site for its healthy use of screenshots, DVDBeaver has lost all credibility with me after this (embarrassingly revised) sorry excuse for a review.

Their screenshots aren't reliable either -- check out this thread (http://www.criterionforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8024&p=245829#p245829). And this is far from the first time the issue has come up. Their BD caps might be more reliable, but I would be extremely reluctant to take anything there at face value.

Most software reviews should be taken with a pinch of salt. Do we know for a fact that the reviewers are watching on calibrated displays, for a start? If not, then we have the "sliding goal posts" issue if they don't even have a benchmark.

Note: I'm the guy from the CriterionForum thread who was complaining about the blurry DVD captures on their site. Their BD screen grabs appear to be accurate, but the blurry DVD grabs issue and their arrogance in not admitting an innocent mistake (and then telling the guy who spent all Summer cleaning up and encoding the movie that he's mistaken!) speaks for itself.

It's probably a bit early for any message to Paramount regarding Gladiator to be taken seriously, since the release date has not even passed, yet. People probably should hold off.

It's probably a bit early for any message to Paramount regarding Gladiator to be taken seriously, since the release date has not even passed, yet. People probably should hold off.

Perhaps the arrows that have been scrubbed by Paramount's "Scratch Removal" filter will be reinserted by Sept 1 ;)

It would be interesting to know at this point how many have changed their minds wanting to buy Gladiator on release day and will not now until they actually viewed it for themselves and make a judgment thereafter.

I always feel the audio is the better bang for buck on "most" catalogs and the fact of being able to get a reasonably good price fairly quickly. More than likely the audio delivers but even that and the praise for the supplements isn't going to push me over the top. I did change my mind and the B&M store will not see me get Gladiator on release day, only Braveheart.

More than likely the audio delivers

Very good point, at least we can hear the whoosh of the invisible arrows :)

It would be interesting to know at this point how many have changed their minds wanting to buy Gladiator on release day and will not now until they actually viewed it for themselves and make a judgment thereafter.

I always feel the audio is the better bang for buck on "most" catalogs and the fact of being able to get a reasonably good price fairly quickly. More than likely the audio delivers but even that and the praise for the supplements isn't going to push me over the top. I did change my mind and the B&M store will not see me get Gladiator on release day, only Braveheart.

For me.. It went from:
"I might pick this up on release week for $20 or so"..
To: "I might get this when I can find it for $9-12 during a bargain sale"...
To: "There is really no excuse to scrubbing out actual details of the movie that add to the story, I will most likely pass".....

I still will give it a rent.. And I am not some DNR/EE extremist... I thought the Star Trek trilogy (although clearly DNR'd) was still a big step up over the DVD and at the price was worth the money for me.. I also did not think that TDK was the travesty that some did..

But Gladiator? This is just a downright shame... The slap in the face, for me, is the whole "Sapphire Edition" tag..

But I will say that I will definitely give my money to Paramount for "Braveheart" based on what I have seen so far..

Perhaps the arrows that have been scrubbed by Paramount's "Scratch Removal" filter will be reinserted by Sept 1 ;)

Ha, that would be nice.

They should rename the Sapphire Series to the Spearless Series.

Most software reviews should be taken with a pinch of salt. Do we know for a fact that the reviewers are watching on calibrated displays, for a start? If not, then we have the "sliding goal posts" issue if they don't even have a benchmark.

Note: I'm the guy from the CriterionForum thread who was complaining about the blurry DVD captures on their site. Their BD screen grabs appear to be accurate, but the blurry DVD grabs issue and their arrogance in not admitting an innocent mistake (and then telling the guy who spent all Summer cleaning up and encoding the movie that he's mistaken!) speaks for itself.

FYI - Review copies have not even arrived yet (to my knowledge) and the title comes out next week. I typically get Paramount catalog titles almost 2 weeks in advance. People that have it now are probably lucking into it since some stores broke release date.

Do you have a 7.1 setup, and if so, how do you compare the 5.1 -> 7.1 PLII vs the 6.1 DTS discrete ?

Good question. I do have 7.1 and the diff is negligable. I use PLIIx on the 5.1 DTS-MA, so very hard to tell any difference.
John

Good question. I do have 7.1 and the diff is negligable. I use PLIIx on the 5.1 DTS-MA, so very hard to tell any difference.
John

I don't know, but it would seem to be that the matrixed sound might even be better than 6.1, since with 6.1 you'd be getting a single channel fed to the two surround back speakers. Matrixed 7.1 would give the back surrounds a stereo signal.

I don't know, but it would seem to be that the matrixed sound might even be better than 6.1, since with 6.1 you'd be getting a single channel fed to the two surround back speakers. Matrixed 7.1 would give the back surrounds a stereo signal.

What I meant was, I have a 7.1 channel system. My Gladiator disc had 5.1 but was matrixed by Dolby PLIIx to the back channels. The DTS-ES track has 6.1 but it is also matrixed from what I know. Hence I really did not notice a big leap going to the BD soundtrack. I was very hopeful but hope doesn't usually do the trick.
John

both films are great as the epic movies to must be owned as BD.

I don't think that anyone has mentioned this yet, (and my apologies if I have missed it), but The Digital Bits has gotten copies of the official releases of Braveheart and Gladiator. Here's their "My Two Cents (http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents)" take on the Blu-rays.

So any comments from people who picked these up today and have seen them for themselves? Are you ok with both Gladiator and Braveheart or will you be trying to sell Gladiator?

Thanks for the link Vlad I am picking up both at BB on Wed since I have off and watch both that day. As long as it is a tad better then the dvd release I will buy it and if they recall it more the merrier.