I currently have Ascend Acoustics Sierra Ones up front in my system, and have been happy with them. However, lately I have been developed a desire for a floorstanding speaker, preferably one with a small footprint. I am considering the KEF IQ9. They are discontinued, and I can get a good deal on a new pair. I like the fact that they are 4 decibels more efficient than the Sierras. I have a Velodyne SPL1200R subwoofer to handle the bass below 80HZ. Would this be a good move? I like the sound of my Sierras. I just want a bigger sound without damaging my speakers. I also have a Marantz 150 watt per channel amp in my system. Any advice would be appreciated.

The IQ9 is a really good speaker, so I don't think it is a bad idea if you can get a good deal on them.

I don't think its gonna sound anything like your Ascend Sierras though.

See if you can compare them.

The Sierras can handle a lot of power, so don't be afraid of feeding them more power, although with 150 watts, they should get plenty loud.

As good as a soft dome tweeter is it's still a soft dome. Can't beat beryllium or ribbon. I personally like high end clarity and sparkle a lot so the iQ9's Al tweeters will probably sound better.

Just a thought but, what are the acoustics like in your room? If your room has acoustical issues, you may be better off treating those before you search out different speakers. Those Sierra's are not all that efficient, @ 87dB's, but they can handle 200 watts. Like cshang said, don't be afraid to push them.

One other thought, what is your crossover setting? The Sierra's play down to 39dB, if you have them crossed over at 80, try experimenting with a lower setting and see if that helps.

Wanting a "bigger sound" with that equipment suggests room issues. It could be as simple as moving your listening position more into the image, or back into the hall, so to speak. Or, you may be sitting in a midrange null.

I demo'd the IQ9's extensively last December prior to purchasing new speakers. I ended up buying the Sierras. In my opinion, they were clearly the better speaker. I would follow the suggestions above and look into room treatments or a bigger power source.

Take if from a guy (me) that recently went through the same naive urge to move to big speakers for a big sound-- the two are unrelated. I get a bigger sound from my current stand-mounts / sub than I did from any of the big-ass floorstanding speakers I had in my home. Some speakers are just better at projecting the sound than others, and the only way to know it to listen.

You might check out B&W's or Paradigm. Both of these brands have impressed me with the size of the soundstage they project.

Oh, and I disagree that a good silk dome won't match Beryllium. I much prefer the sound of a quality silk dome over any of the Be tweets I've heard. Ribbon tweets on the other hand can be exceptional, but they have their trade-offs as well, and there is no guarantee that a ribbon will produce a big sound.

Although most of you would say that you would often times get better results in changing room dynamics than speakers, realistically in most non-dedicated rooms it is a lot easier to change the speakers vs the room.

I know most of you love the Sierra-1s, but I have read in a few posts that people think they sound a bit thin.

I know most of you love the Sierra-1s, but I have read in a few posts that people think they sound a bit thin.
That response generally comes from folks used to heavier mids and lower mids when comparing to a speaker with a flatter response.

An advantage I can see using floor speakers instead of bookshelfs is you can fit more drivers on the baffle. Instead of a 2-way design using a 1" dome and 6.5" midbass in a bookshelf, you could go with a 3.5way design and use a 1" dome, 2, 4" mids, and 4, 6.5" woofers. The baffle is still the same width, but since there are more drivers present, the efficiency and power handling will go up, resulting in a lot more output.

Floor speakers will have a better low frequency output due to the increased enclosure size. But with the use a subwoofer, that advantage becomes more useless.

For a bigger sound, consider a better subwoofer, or additional subs.

For a bigger sound, consider a better subwoofer, or additional subs.

That'll only help if he's lacking in the bass or midbass dept. If he's lacking anywhere above 150hz, then upgrading subs won't help.

That'll only help if he's lacking in the bass or midbass dept. If he's lacking anywhere above 150hz, then upgrading subs won't help.

True, but he may just be lacking in the mid bass areas (80-150hz) before his sub kicks in (assuming he is crossed over around 80hz). One or two of these may give him the added feel of a larger woofer:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/mbm-12.html

IF there is already room alocated for some floor standing speakers my two cetns is that may not be a bad idea. Yes it may be lacking in mid bass, however this can be acheived by using a larger floor standing model without taking up the room of additional subs. It may not be the end all to "perfect" sound but it will work. If they have a larger woofer than his bookshelves, which I hope they would, this will then allow them to play the lower frequencies much better. Like I said maybe not "perfectly" but they would sure help. A good compromise, less space more bass. I would say to you OP, go down and take a listen to the KEF's, if you like them and feel they are better sounding and will work for what you want see if you can take them home, even if it means buying them with a 30 day trial as I am sure most anyone will do for you. Hook them up and let your ears decide, after all it is you that has to like them and live with them. I am sure you could unload the other speakers rather easily or use them elsewhere. Worst case you tried and it didn't work and it cost you some time.

Play with placement. What are you room dimensions and where are the Sierras located? At one point, you can't really do magic, but there's significant improvement to be had by optimally locating your speakers and your listening position.

As mentioned, "big sound" doesn't really mean anything. Or maybe it does to some people, and then it probably means different things to different people. As mentioned, mid bass bump (more mid bass vs rest of spectrum) can definitely seem to give a 'bigger' sound. It might also seem to have better bass to some people... Cheap way to experience this, well you have a sub, increase the sub volume, or, just play the Sierras on their own but more them closer to the rear wall. This will increase the balance of your rear port output vs direct speaker sound... See if this sounds 'bigger' to you... You could also try an EQ device (300$ Behringer DEQ2496 for example) gives you a LOT of options and really gives you a tremendous ability to tweak your sound, so just with that you'd probably be able to find what might fit in your description of 'bigger sound'.

If you can use a computer as source, try to download Izotope Ozone (http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/media/ozone.html ) and check out how 'fatter' and 'bigger' they can make your Sierras sound. Honestly, getting that WinAmp plugin (even just the demo) is pretty much the same as buying a couple speakers and tube amps. You can definitely get bigger sound with that. But again, 'bigger' will just mean altering the signal/presentation so that it might sound 'bigger' to you... You're somewhat stepping away from accurate sound reproduction and more into "I find this particular sound more enjoyable even if it's less close to the original" (more distortion, more skewed FR, etc..), but if that's what you're looking for... Oh.. Or buy a pair of Swan 2.1SE, someone is trying to sell his pair to buy a pair of Sierras with premium finish on the Ascend speaker forum. They're 600$ new, so used should be able to cut off a couple hundreds, so not that expensive, and they supposedly have that 'bigger' sound thing... (more exaggerated, fat, bass, although less tight and bit 'muddy' compared to Sierras). Again, you can get that with Izotope, which costs 0$, but if you want it directly in speakers...

Going floorstanders is very moot. Some might sound bigger than Sierras, but then other bookshelves might too, and those again might sound bigger than floorstanders. Sierras sound 'bigger' than MANY floorstanders I've heard. Definitely does not sound 'small' or like bookshelves, like many other bookshelves I've heard... But again, not all floorstanders are equal, and not all bookshelves are either... Normally, floorstanders give you more drivers and bigger internal volume, which can results in lower bass and better quality bass, but again, for Sierras, 900$, you're not going to find floorstanders with better mids/highs AND better bass than Sierras... Just my personal opinion... Sierras + 1k sub shouldn't be at a disadvantage vs 2k floorstanders, even the contrary, imho...

I agree I won't get rid of those Sierra's, badass speakers. As others suggested play around with speaker placement, you are probably getting some midbass null. I had a similar problem a drop out in 50-70hrz, was very disappointed with the sound thought about getting all new speakers. But I added some room treatments, subwoofer crawl, and ran audessy again and it was a huge difference. Adding another subwoofer would help too more so than replacing the Sierra's with towers. Some questions do you have others speakers in your systems besides the Sierra's, center or surrounds. If you have a different brand center you should replace it with the Sierra center. JMO

Some speakers are just better at projecting the sound than others, and the only way to know it to listen.


There are easier ways to determine if a speaker can project sound (sound stage) but it takes measurements. Also, Generally if a speaker has ribbons, horns, coaxial drivers then it mostly likely has better horizontal response....off-axis response does not suck!

I agree I won't get rid of those Sierra's, badass speakers.

Do you guys have measurements to back all this subjective stuff up??? I actually do not know one way or another but it would be great for someone to post actual proof!!

Do you guys have measurements to back all this subjective stuff up??? I actually do not know one way or another but it would be great for someone to post actual proof!!
Penn....What type of measurements would you like? Do you have measurements of your speakers?

Do you ask for measurements of everyone who like their speakers? :rolleyes:

I agree I won't get rid of those Sierra's, badass speakers. As others suggested play around with speaker placement, you are probably getting some midbass null. I had a similar problem a drop out in 50-70hrz, was very disappointed with the sound thought about getting all new speakers. But I added some room treatments, subwoofer crawl, and ran audessy again and it was a huge difference. Adding another subwoofer would help too more so than replacing the Sierra's with towers. Some questions do you have others speakers in your systems besides the Sierra's, center or surrounds. If you have a different brand center you should replace it with the Sierra center. JMO

Yep, walk around in your room, move your head up and down while playing 60-160hz test tones, you'll probably notice that where you stand affects how loud you hear certain frequencies. When you move speakers you'll alter your nulls/bumps, so you have to find a good balance for imaging, soundstage, FR, etc... It'll probably never be perfect, most often it's a matter of compromise, but it can definitely make a BIG difference of how speakers sound. Sometimes, just moving your chair/sofa a couple feet (or even 1!) forward or backward can make a big difference... And same with the sub, play 35-60hz tones and walk around, you'll see it varies A LOT, and moving the sub will change things a lot too!

Do you guys have measurements to back all this subjective stuff up??? I actually do not know one way or another but it would be great for someone to post actual proof!!

There's measurments on the Ascend website as well as on soundtageav I believe it was... As for proofs... There's quite a bit of pro reviews as well as consumer reports, but if for you measurements are the proof, here's a couple:

http://www.soundstageav.com/onhifi/20070901.htm
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM1/srm1meas.html


For interesting comparison, check out the measuremetns of the previously mentioned Kef IQ9: http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/206kef/index3.html Note that SSAV's Ascend measurements do not take into account the rear port output.

And before you harp on how the FR measurements aren't 100% flat or the such, here's the conclusion from the SSAV review :p

Conclusion

Plenty of speakers costing under $1000/pair match the Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 in bass extension, overall tonal balance, and even build quality. What makes it stand out is the clarity, detail, and resolution of its sound -- aspects of performance that conventional specifications and measurements don’t readily reveal, and that you don’t know you’ve been missing until you’ve heard them. Once you do, it’s hard to settle for less. I’ve heard no other two-way speaker at or near the Sierra-1’s price that sounds this clear, detailed, and resolving, which is why I kept comparing it to more expensive speakers that I know well. This level of performance is usually the domain of far more expensive two-ways that cost a few thousand bucks.

Ascend Acoustics succeeded admirably with the CBM-170 by offering unprecedented neutrality for an unthinkably low price. Their Sierra-1 ups the ante in detail and resolution, and let me hear further into recordings than any other moderately priced speaker I know of. That makes the Sierra-1 an exceptional speaker and an outstanding value -- "statement" performance at a very reasonable price.

…Doug Schneider

Thanks! I was just asking because I was curious to see them...


"And before you harp on how the FR measurements aren't 100% flat or the such, here's the conclusion from the SSAV review"

BTW, I care little these days about on axis FRs ;) they could have HUGE dips for all I care...its the 15, 30, 45 degree FRs that I care about or more importantly polar response charts.

Penn....What type of measurements would you like? Do you have measurements of your speakers?

Do you ask for measurements of everyone who like their speakers? :rolleyes:

Polar response....Yes and yes :D

Polar response....Yes and yes :D
Your actual speakers? OK..lets see them. Just PM them.

Do you guys have measurements to back all this subjective stuff up??? I actually do not know one way or another but it would be great for someone to post actual proof!!

I don't need to post pictures of measurements and graphics. I've listened to the Sierra's, a co worker had purchased some around the same time as I got my Axiom speakers, listen to some sacd's and a couple blu rays and I was blown away that a small 5.25in speaker could sound that good. So there is your actual proof, i'm backing up my subjective stuff.

Tough call here. There are good bookshelves and bad bookshelves. Good floor standers and bad floor standers.
Good rooms and bad rooms.
Good source materials and bad source materials.
So many choices......:eek:

May i recommend Monitor Audio RS6. They sound much bigger than they are, especially if you bi-amp them. read the review in Stereophile. The writer who does reviews uses them as his reference speaker to compare others to. Thay have Metal domes. IF you have receiver with room correction software (Audyssey, MCAC,Ypao etc ) it can correct for a lot of your room problems.
They will play down to approx 30 HZ.
I currently BI-Amp mine and turn the sub completely off when listening to music.
Using the Marantz SR5003 with Audessey applied as a Pre/Pro and Emotiva LPA-1 Amp. I am sending them Approx 175Watts to the Tweeter and Mids and the same to the Woofer.
I agree with the more power idea and feel that Most speakers sound better with more of it!
I am by no means trying to sell them to you , but many people say that they can't be beat for the Price .

If I had a dollar for every time I have heard that something can't be beat for the price I'd be rich, if it was evertime someone said it about a different speaker I got 100 I'd be filthy rich. Measurements are a good start, but no matter how much one tries to overlook it eveyone will like something different in their rooms. Do yourself a favour and go down listen to them see about an in home demo, if you like and they do better great, if not move on. Could you make the Sierras work? Hard to say since none of us are your ears and brain. No matter how objective one gets there will always be the subjective side to it as well. Hence the many people say they can't be beat comments about 100's of different speakers. Now I am sure the prove that one is better than the other by posting data will start and the subjectives will reply. I think it is time for some to start realizing no matter how objective you get there will always be a subjective part to it. Good luck OP hope you find what you are looking for!!

There have been very good options posted for you to make the Sierras work. Try them if you'd like, or try a new set of speakers.

It'd be nice to know what the weakness of the system was so that a fix could be suggested. We're on page two and no one know's what the actual problem is, yet there are tons of suggestions to fix it.

I would have to go with Penn and let's see some in-room measurements at the volumes you listen to. Maybe it's an overall output issue, maybe it's a midbass, maybe it's room interactions, maybe the tweeter is distorting too much...

...But with an 85db sensitivity, I'd venture to guess there's an issue with overall output.

First of all just wanted to say sorry for not posting back to this thread since I originally started it almost a month ago. I also want to thank everyone for their input.

It is funny the Monitor Audio RS6 have come up. I recently had the chance to demo a pair at a local dealer here in Michigan. I must say I was very impressed at what I saw. These are one nice looking floorstander. Even more impressive in person than in pictures. They were set up in a dealer's soundroom hooked up to a Yamaha receiver with no subwoofer. It took all of about twenty seconds of listening to them to convince me that I wanted a pair. They were running a May special on them at $980 a pair. However, I did remember from the reviews that I had read on this speaker that they were very sensitive to placement. They were a good two feet out from the back wall in the dealer's room, and at least eight feet apart. The room was also rectangular. So all the conditions were right for this speaker to perform. These were also conditions that I would not be able to afford this speaker in my living room at home. They would be at a maximum of five feet apart, and no more than ten inches off the back wall. Also, my room is 14x13, almost perfectly square.

Instead of buying them, I went home and called Nuance. He is the creator of the "Journey to the Perfect Speaker" thread. A thread which I never posted in, but read with great interest. I also knew that he had reviewed both the Sierra and the RS6 exclusively in that particular thread, along with a host of other speakers. Both speakers had been given favorable reviews by him. I explained to him what I had heard, and he did seem a little perplexed. He told me that while he thought both speakers were great performers in their particular price range, he felt that the Sierra was clearly the better sounding speaker. He then suggested to me that I take my Sierra's to the store and see what thay sound like under the same conditions, that I had heard the Monitor Audio's. I called the salesmen at the store and explained the situation. If I were to return the RS6's I would be subject to a 15% restocking fee. So if I got them home and they did not sound good, I would basically be paying $150 to find out I had a bad room. He agreed to let me bring in my Sierra's the next day.

The following day I wrapped up my Sierra's and drove to the store, much to the dismay of my wife- who by the way thinks I am nuts. To make a long story short, I returned home without the RS6's. Under the same conditions, my Sierra's clearly sounded better- in my opinion. The only edge I would give to the RS6 was in the bass, and in my room at home that would have probably been a negative, taking into consideration the close placement to a back wall, and the small size of my room. My Sierra's clearly sounded better than they did in my living room. This to me was a clear indication of a room problem, and not a speaker problem. In fact, the addition of a floorstander could possibly magnify it.

When I posted this thread, I said I was looking for a bigger sound. I guess what I really meant to say was I was looking for a better sound at higher SPL's. After hearing my Sierra's under more favorable conditions at higher volume levels, I am convinced that I have serious room and placement issues that are just compounded even more the louder I turn them up.

In order to make my room more favorable to good sound, I would have to rearrange my whole living room. That would allow me to get my Sierra's further apart, and a few inches higher. Presently they are 55" apart and 24" off the ground, and I am seated 11 feet from them. I am seriously considering moving the Sierra's to the basement and setting up a 2 channel system down there, and possibly picking up some Ascend 340's for the upstairs for home theater use. That way I could play with placement options on the Sierra's downstairs, without being subject to the wife's approval.

Anyway, my thanks to Nuance for his suggestion. And thanks to eveyone who has chimed in to with their suggestions in regards to this issue

Room interactions. Woohoo, that's the hardest problem to fix, but usually the cheapest ;)

About the RS6's, I have RS1's and find I need a close placement to the rear wall to help with the midbass/bass area. Having them 2ft out from the wall really takes away from their sound...adding in that 2nd woofer would really help them out.

Monitor Audio recommends that the RS6 be placed 8 inches from the front wall as a starting point. From what I've heard the RS6 are not very sensitive to placement. I've been playing with the positioning of my new pair over the last few days and hear little difference (you get a bit more bass closer to walls, but if you want them really close with less bass you can just put the provided plugs in). Also, I've auditioned them in acoustically horrible rooms and they still sounded great.

I bought mine brand new for $850/pair (+ tax) at Magnolia, which offers a 30 day return policy with no restocking fee (that was the price I got after some negotiation)

jrhooper1963: Good news, sorta...

You could try the Sierra port plugs. For 50$ or such, it could fix your problems, who knows... To find out what your problem is, you could also purchase a measurement mic and do some measurements. Really helps to see exactly what the effect of moving speakers have on the FR at one position (and the different FRs at different positions), Behringer ECM something is good and cheap. And again, maybe a DEQ2496 (digital EQ) could help with bad rooms, though that can't correct 100% room problems, but can help make it a bit better...

Great sale on 340SE, 1000$ for 3x340SE and 2x170SE, + free shipping, if you're going to buy some, now would be the time! Or 340SE in pair are also part of their moving sale :)

If I had a dollar for every time I have heard that something can't be beat for the price I'd be rich, if it was evertime someone said it about a different speaker I got 100 I'd be filthy rich. Measurements are a good start, but no matter how much one tries to overlook it eveyone will like something different in their rooms. Do yourself a favour and go down listen to them see about an in home demo, if you like and they do better great, if not move on. Could you make the Sierras work? Hard to say since none of us are your ears and brain. No matter how objective one gets there will always be the subjective side to it as well. Hence the many people say they can't be beat comments about 100's of different speakers. Now I am sure the prove that one is better than the other by posting data will start and the subjectives will reply. I think it is time for some to start realizing no matter how objective you get there will always be a subjective part to it. Good luck OP hope you find what you are looking for!!
Data is the not the final decision nor does it always equate to a better speaker. Like you said all of that is very subjective. My point was that MANY people said that the RS6 could not be beat for the price. It is just one to consider for audtion. Thats all.:)

Ahh...rooms issues. Hope you are able to work things out to your satisfaction.


The following day I wrapped up my Sierra's and drove to the store, much to the dismay of my wife- who by the way thinks I am nuts. To make a long story short, I returned home without the RS6's. Under the same conditions, my Sierra's clearly sounded better- in my opinion.
What was the reaction/opinion of the salerep helping you?

It's pretty evil bringing Ascends to compare to similarly priced speakers... Really, what are the odds that someone is going to pick up a brand new pair of speakers after a comparison? Pretty damn slim... And it's pretty embarrassing for the salesman since his speaker probably won't sound better... I doubt many salesman would rave on the Sierras, he probably preferred the speakers he was selling, well, said he did anyhow :p Everybody always seem to sell the best stuff!!!

What could he say? Here was a speaker less than half the size of the Monitor Audio RS6 - flatout outperforming it! He did ask me who the speaker was made by, and also commented that it was a nice looking speaker. I brought my own source material, and played some of their's also.

There is one more thing I would like to add. When I told Nuance that I was comparing the RS6 to the Sierras, he did use alot of audio vocabulary that was a little over my head. He mentioned frequency response, a word used with a great amount of frequency among audiophiles. From my understanding ,when the frequency response is at it's smoothest, this is when one you receive the most accurate representation of a given source material. He explained to me that the RS6, while a very good speaker in it's own rite, did not to convey to him nearly as smooth a frequency response as the Sierra One. I definitely heard evidence of that fact before my very ears on that Saturday two weeks ago.

I just remember when I brought in my "classic" CMT-340's into a local shop and compared them to speakers they had on display. They got a lot of attention from the other sales reps...even the owner came out of his office. Then the owner asked how much they cost...when I said "about $500/pr", all the reps walked away....it was classic. The owner stuck around and continued to chat and play some of his music.

What could he say? Here was a speaker less than half the size of the Monitor Audio RS6 - flatout outperforming it! He did ask me who the speaker was made by, and also commented that it was a nice looking speaker. I brought my own source material, and played some of their's also.

Sorry, but I think you're hearing what you want to hear.

I don't own either, but I've done direct A/B comparisons with the RS6 and Sierra-1 and the RS6 was much better overall. The Sierra-1 is nice for a small bookshelf speaker but if you think it holds up to a good floorstander like the RS6 you're kidding yourself.

Sorry, but I think you're hearing what you want to hear.

I don't own either, but I've done direct A/B comparisons with the RS6 and Sierra-1 and the RS6 was much better overall. The Sierra-1 is nice for a small bookshelf speaker but if you think it holds up to a good floorstander like the RS6 you're kidding yourself.
Hehe are you sure you really did the comparison? :p

As I said earlier, floorstander vs bookshelf is pretty moot. Again, check out the measurements of the RS6: http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/306monitor/index3.html They really don't extend much lower than the Sierras, although they have quite a bump at ~80hz, which might give the impression of 'better' bass... But they're more efficient, so will play louder than Sierras with the volume of the amp at the same level, why it's important to level match... But I wouldn't be surprised if the MAs could play more loudly. "RS6 was much better overall" haven't heard the RS6, only the older S6, and imho, the S6 was closer to the 340SE than the Sierras in terms of performance. From top to bottom octave... But maybe the new silver line has improved... My money would go on closer to 340SE but anyhow, I'll just leave others who've heard them comment!

Oh well. It is a very subjective subject. HAHA!

To tell you the truth, there was a time when I thought Cerwin Vegas sounded good. Then one day I turned them down to a reasonable volume- and after the numbness left my ears, I could actually hear the distortion. Just kidding!

There is no doubt in my mind that the Sierra's and the RS6's are both among the elite in their given price range. The beauty is indeed in the ears of the listener!

he did use alot of audio vocabulary that was a little over my head. He mentioned frequency response, a word used with a great amount of frequency among audiophiles. From my understanding ,when the frequency response is at it's smoothest, this is when one you receive the most accurate representation of a given source material. He explained to me that the RS6, while a very good speaker in it's own rite, did not to convey to him nearly as smooth a frequency response as the Sierra One. I definitely heard evidence of that fact before my very ears on that Saturday two weeks ago.

FR, Frequency Response is the balance of bass/mids/highs. It's a linear graph, the low frequencies on the right, mids middle, and highs (treble) on the right. The intensity of the sound is the top/bottom of the graph in decibels (dB). So if a line goes from bottom left to upper right, it'll have no bass but a LOT of highs so will make your ears bleed, top left to down right, only bass... very muffled... etc. You normally want the line as flat as possible, so that the bass doesn't overpower the mids/highs, so that the highs aren't too loud and sound grating, etc...

The best FR is pretty much like this: http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170meas.html (from 100hz to 10000hz, if it was perfect, it would be straight from 0hz to 100khz! graph shows that the speaker isn't able to play really low deep bass in this case) This in comparison: http://stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/408tri/index4.html is less flat, so will sound more colored... Some sounds will be louder than others, other softer than they should be... That often is noticeable as some sounds seeming closer and other farther. (in practicality, lets say there's a kick drum which is around 120hz, if there's a big FR bump, then the kick drum will be much louder than other instruments. If there's a dip, then the kick drum will be more silent then it should be... here's a graph covering range of some instruments: http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm , in Hz, Hertz, or cycles per second... more cycles = high sound, fewer cycles = low sound, so 20Hz = 20 cycles per second = very slow = very low, 10000Hz = 10000 cycles per sec = high sound.)

But there's many different important measurements. FR are usually measured in front of the speaker, and an important aspect of speaker performance is also how they measure off angle, and how the speaker maintain good FR. Also, waterfall plot is important, how fast speaker responds to an impulse and how fast it can also stop playing the sound. Anyhow...

There is no doubt in my mind that the Sierra's and the RS6's are both among the elite in their given price range. The beauty is indeed in the ears of the listener!

Agreed. And I think a lot of people's listening impressions are heavily dependent on what they choose to listen to at the time. There's also compatibility with other components in the system, room/placement compatibility with the speakers, etc

FR, Frequency Response is the balance of bass/mids/highs. It's a linear graph, ...
"Linear" in the sense "logarithmic"?

"Linear" in the sense "logarithmic"?

nah, just with a line :p http://images.google.ca/images?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&=&q=linear%20graph&lr=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi maybe line graph is a better term...

Hi Jim,

I thought you had decided not to post your recent experience :p

Regardless, as we have discussed -- I do recommend that you at least try some room treatments. GIK seems to be popular within our customer base (there are many others too)

Grandarf's suggestion about taking some room measurements should not be overlooked. For a minimal investment (SPL meter or mic), laptop and various software -- you will be able to "see" what you are or are not hearing. This makes solving the issues MUCH easier and as you already know, I am happy to help :)

Thanks Dave,

Dave and I spoke on the phone a couple of weeks ago, and I did mention to him the recent comparison of his speaker to another. I also told him that I probably would not post about it. But the recent activity in this thread changed my mind. I felt a response was definitely due on my part.

I would just like to say that Dave went out of his way to work with me and give suggestions for the issues in my room. The whole topic of the conversation on his part was the issues I was having in my crummy room with the Sierra's at higher SPL's.

Sorry, but I think you're hearing what you want to hear.

I don't own either, but I've done direct A/B comparisons with the RS6 and Sierra-1 and the RS6 was much better overall. The Sierra-1 is nice for a small bookshelf speaker but if you think it holds up to a good floorstander like the RS6 you're kidding yourself.

I have not heard the Sierra but would tend to agree wholeheartedly.
I can vouch that regardless of the receiver used for this the RS6 ,I Promise they sound much better with MORE Power than almost any receiver can deliver. I am sending a Total of about 350 Watts to mine (continuous by the way . not peak power ) by Bi-Amping them with Emotiva LPA-1 and I swear they Sound MUCH bigger than they are and better than what my Reciever could deliver. It really makes a world of difference
This gives you good ,full, Unbelievable amount of tight and LOW bass and the Dynamics and Headroom that can only be attained by a separate amp

To tell you the truth, there was a time when I thought Cerwin Vegas sounded good. Then one day I turned them down to a reasonable volume- and after the numbness left my ears, I could actually hear the distortion. Just kidding!

There is no doubt in my mind that the Sierra's and the RS6's are both among the elite in their given price range. The beauty is indeed in the ears of the listener!
I owned Cerwin Vegas RE38 and was feeding them 470 watts per channel Continuous. With NAD 218THx Amp and I thought they sounded decent but i thought they FELT even better they could Make plaster fall off the walls.HE HE:D:D

I am sending a Total of about 350 Watts to mine (continuous by the way . not peak power )

350 watts continuous??? :eek: :eek: :eek:

350 watts continuous??? :eek: :eek: :eek:
I should say it like this:
The Emotiva-LPA-1 amp is capable of 125 Watts into 8 ohms and 225 Watts into 4 Ohms with Channels 1-5 all cahnnels driven at the same time.
This should equate to 175 Watts into 6 ohms all channels driven.
So that is what i mean by continous. it is Capable of that but i am sure that the sepakers are not asking for all of it at once if you want to be technical about it.:D:D:D:eek:
BETTER?????

yes, i'm aware of the specs of the emotiva amp...

1) assuming a "good floorstander" will automatically be "better" than a "good bookshelf" is an unsafe assumption. especially if you've never heard one of them.

2) your description of what an amp did for your speakers is inconsistent with their specs. there are any number of avr's that will put out more than enough continuous power to drive them to their limits. i freely admit i have not listened to your speakers, but there IS a certain amount of information/knowledge that can be gleaned from the manufacturer's spec sheet.

3) unless you are actively bi-amping (i.e. completely defeating the internal xover/filters in the speaker and then integrating an active xover), you aren't accomplishing anything. the drivers aren't seeing any more "power".

i'm glad you like your speakers and they are making you happy. from all accounts, they are very good speakers.

yes, i'm aware of the specs of the emotiva amp...

1) assuming a "good floorstander" will automatically be "better" than a "good bookshelf" is an unsafe assumption. especially if you've never heard one of them.

2) your description of what an amp did for your speakers is inconsistent with their specs. there are any number of avr's that will put out more than enough continuous power to drive them to their limits. i freely admit i have not listened to your speakers, but there IS a certain amount of information/knowledge that can be gleaned from the manufacturer's spec sheet.

3) unless you are actively bi-amping (i.e. completely defeating the internal xover/filters in the speaker and then integrating an active xover), you aren't accomplishing anything. the drivers aren't seeing any more "power".

i'm glad you like your speakers and they are making you happy. from all accounts, they are very good speakers.
I don't understand what you mean by #2? I used my Marantz Sr5003 prior to installing the amp and there is a BIG difference even at lower volumes
on #3 , iam not bi wiring. I have split the preamp outputs from one into two for each Left and Right. I am sending one output channel on my amp to the woofers and another channel output to the Tweeters and midrange and i promise you they are getting more power than sending one output to the Woofers and mids combined.
If not then please explain it because i am missing something

1) sensitivity 91db, max rms 140 (and i don't see anything out there about difficult phase angles or impedance drops)... you do the math...

2) no, each driver isn't getting any more "power" than it would from a single connection. you are putting out 2 identical full range signals to the speaker from the amplifier. nothing more, nothing less.

active bi-amping, otoh, has it's merits. however, it's not for the faint of heart, and given the effort that (most) speaker manufacturers put into the xovers/filters/shaping/etc., there's a better chance of making it sound "worse" than making it sound "better".

You don't make yoursef clear. I still do not understand what you are trying to say.
Are you saying that because they are rated at 140 Rms max that they cannot go any higher than that? aven if you send them more?
I am by no means trying to be an ass, but you didn't explain it so i can understand.
I am trying to learn what i am saying or posting incorrectly so i will understand and can be informed .