I hope this is in the correct section?
I have a set of HI-8 tapes as well as a number of recordings on a Atlanta Scientific DVR (non HD) that I need to convert into a digital format in a file on my Windows XP system. These are going to become part of a library of videos.

I have initially started using an inexpensive ADS DVDXpressDX2 box which is simple to use but I have noticed some loss of quality.

I have a couple others devices in mind:

The ADS API-557-EFS which operates via firwire instead of via USB. Either is OK with me.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/462759-REG/ADS_Technologies_API_557_EFS_PYRO_A_V_Link_with.html

Also the Canopus ADVC300
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/308864-REG/Grass_Valley_602050_ADVC_300_Bi_Directional_Media_Converter. html

A couple of questions,

I assume that because there's an AD conversion going on here that there's going to be some degredation over the original content. Is that correct?

Is either of these two boxes going to improve upon that problem?

What capture program can I use with the Canopus that isn't going to be a bank breaker?

All suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks Bob.

Don't know if this is the right forum for this. I've used a ADVC300, but the bottleneck remains to be the DV Video realtime encoding with it's 15mbit/sec peak rate. The quality of the a/d conversion is good, but I always noticed artifacts in scenes with high movement. I switched to capturing solution which let's me choose my own AVI Codec after that and the the jump in quality was very visible indeed.

This said, a ADVC300 is very very likely still a big jump in quality over your live MPEG2 encoder you're using right now. To capture from a Firewire source, you can use every capture program you can think of - starting with Movie Maker which is included with Windows. If your end format is DVD you just have to use a quality DV to MPEG2 software encoder, otherwise you'll end up destroying your quality advantage again.

I'm not at all experienced in this stuff but I gather that with the Canopus the file captured on the hardrive will have to then be run through an encoder to produce a file usable by myu video streamer Twonkymeadia or any other one.

This sounds like a lot more processing time on the XP workstation but would be done in a second phase as opposed the real-time encoding the ADS box is doing?

Bob

Canopus is a great product - I was always a fan of Canopus but they need to lower their pricing now because it's DV only when it comes to the end result's codec.

I suggest you to rather look into BMD's Intensity Pro card which is a full and future-proof solution, from another well-known broadcast/post production quality vendor - especially for its new low price of $199!
If you look at its specs you'll see it's a helluva lot of features there and aside of current 3rd party support you also get their Media Express app, a simple but effective capturing software: http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
What's even better that (early June) it becomes a truly multiplatform (Win/OSX/Linux) software, along with all Decklink, Multibridge and Intensity products, still for free: http://www.blackmagic-design.com/press/detail.asp?pressID=162
Specifications: http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/techspecs/
Support library: http://www.blackmagic-design.com/support/product.asp?fmProduct=22
Software support: http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/software/

Now if you have a Mac and don't want to set up your own little studio they have a simple turnkey encoding solution, specifically targeting your problem, encoding/archiving from analog sources - it's called Video Recorder: http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/videorecorder/
It's a very high quality, plug-and-play H.264 encoding solution which includes a little USB hardware converter piece and a full-featured software for capturing.
Specs: http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/videorecorder/techspecs/

FWIW I have an Intensity Pro and I know why I bought it instead of any Canopus ADVCs... :cool:

BlackMagic got my full recommendation. I'm just upgrading to a Multibridge Pro 2, but the basic concept behind all the Blackmagic cards is the same and quality-wise it's a big step from a realtime DV encoder.

I think I can probably accomdate this card in my XP workstation and it does have enough horsepower but there are so many unfamilair terms beign slung about in the documents for this product that for a poor slob who's just looking to convert his HI8 tapes and the DVR files imprisioned on my cable Co. DVR as best as possible. I do also have a new HD camcorder which records in H.264 but there's no direct HD output uncompressed available from that tiny machine so I'm not certain there's any advantage in all the HI Def features for me here.

To summarize what's being suggested, this card will capture the analog and record it on a disk file but what's not clear is the format?

If I want it to be in DVD format (there's a good reason in my case) do I have to run it thru another encoding step or will this thing put it directly on my hardrive in that format?

Having to "play" it a second time for encoding sounds quite tedious.

Again, pardon my ignorance.

Bob S.

If you're using an external Firewire converter, your analog data will be converted to DV. If you're using an internal capture card, you can basically choose the codec yourself. The Blackmagic cards offer a nice MJPEG (Motion JPEG) Codec under Windows. You'll end up with AVI Files which you can then throw into any software MPEG2 decoder you like (if you plan on getting the videos onto DVDs).

The "2nd" encoding isn't "live" which means it can be quite fast depending on your CPU power and it does not involve playing the tape again, so it's nothing you have to watch while it happens. On the other hand, the Firewire capturing you suggested yourself, doesn't save you from this step either, it's just that the video quality after the initial capturing isn't compromised by any live over-compression. In addition you can adjust the picture (overscan, saturation, sharpness, noise and everything else) between the capturing and the final encoding, so might like the idea after all :)

I'd have to check whether Twonky and my TV Samsung with DLNA can play AVI files directly maybe they could?

So the internal capture style cards don't or cant' encode directly into the desired final format? Or just the inexpensive ones?

I know I'm working from ignorance here but I'm just wondering what is going on and why?

There's also a practical limit to the level of "futzing" I'm willing to go through for this project as well. I'm afraid if it gets too involved it just won't get done.

I think you're saying that the Canopus box and this capture card will involve identical steps on my part whereas this cheap ADS box is more of a consumer's single step approach??????

The ADS box allows for direct DVD burning and other media conversion options which weren't my original goals anyway but nice to have.

Thanks very much for the help.

Bob

One other question?

The file sizes oproduced by this Blackmagic capture card in AVI format are going to be a lot larger than the ones produced by thr ADS box because of the format yes?

If you're using an external Firewire converter, your analog data will be converted to DV. If you're using an internal capture card, you can basically choose the codec yourself. The Blackmagic cards offer a nice MJPEG (Motion JPEG) Codec under Windows. You'll end up with AVI Files which you can then throw into any software MPEG2 decoder you like (if you plan on getting the videos onto DVDs).

The "2nd" encoding isn't "live" which means it can be quite fast depending on your CPU power and it does not involve playing the tape again, so it's nothing you have to watch while it happens. On the other hand, the Firewire capturing you suggested yourself, doesn't save you from this step either, it's just that the video quality after the initial capturing isn't compromised by any live over-compression. In addition you can adjust the picture (overscan, saturation, sharpness, noise and everything else) between the capturing and the final encoding, so might like the idea after all :)

He can just choose one of the supported apps like Premiere and capture it straight into whatever format he wants... but of course, as soon as he starts doing it he will realize he can do a lot of things (cutting out unnecessary footage DVR might recorded, do some sharpening/tweaking etc) after capture but before rendering out, just like you said. :)

One other question?

The file sizes oproduced by this Blackmagic capture card in AVI format are going to be a lot larger than the ones produced by thr ADS box because of the format yes?

It depends. You can use uncompressed AVI, MJPEG AVI, you can use Quicktime etc. But considering today's free-falling HDD prices (from $80/TB) these things shouldn't concern you at all.

I do have a pair of 1TB drives in Raid mirror config but data does require backup even in this config as I found out the hard way almost immediately. Large amounts of data take a long time to back up even disk to disk so I'm still sensitive to huge files.

Once again not being knowledgeable on these topics I thought that the DVD file format produced by this ADS box was somewhat standard and I was seeking out the comparative size of that versus the AVI format as proposed.

Also, the quality of the two main sources I'm seeking to convert just isn't that terrific to begin with. I'm hoping to not degrade the quality in this A/D conversion and the ADS box isn't horrible considering the quality of the source material. I'm not looking to guild the Lilly here but if this Blackmagic card can be setup to produce a better result without becoming a too involved long multi step process and doesn't yield files twice the size of the DVD format then I'd like to consider it.

Another thing I've noticed about my HI8 tapes is that besides a few outright bad spots some of them have recently developed a bit of a fine wavy pattern in spots. Is there any cost feasible post processing software that corrects any of the typical tape induced distortions?

And thanks so much to everyone for the discussion! :>)

As it turns out my TV does not support all AVI formats via the DLNA interface. It's rather limited supporting the following:

MPEG1(mpg, mpeg), MPEG2 PS/TS(mpg, mpeg, trp, ts, tp), divx(mpg, mpeg, avi), MPEG4 / H.264 (mpg,mpeg)

That's not to say I won't be getting an external player like Popcorn or something at some point but for now I'd like to make this work.

Bob