HI GUYS
first post

I just got a used cheap sony KV32HV600 a claimed to be 1080i crt TV
and I guess I was fooled by ''digital'' ''ready''and 1080i claims
and while it has picture in picture and other neat stuff
it only has a old non-digital tuner
I only see a old type 480? picture when hooked to my sat box by co-ax
the manual that came with this tv was for a older sony and give no clues
to HD in pure or up converted form how to do's

options to get a 1080i picture look to be a converter box for digital ota
but not the cheap rebate models
or a DVD recorder with digital tuner but none list tuner output rates
or is there some trick I am missing to get
a ''fake'' 1080i up converted picture
on screen from my sat box inputs ??

You'll need an HD sat box connected to the set to get true HD resolutions. Or you can get an OTA HD tuner, which is different than the coupon boxes. Either box will require connection with component video cables (red/green/blue) or DVI.

**Thanks Ralph for the DVI info.

I don't have that set but it looks like it has DVI-HDCP inputs as well as component, so you should be able to feed it HD via either the component inputs or the DVI- input; so if you satellite box has either component or HDMI out you should be fine outputting 1080i to that tv

Why upconvert when you have a 1080i capabilty? Get 1080i source material (e.g. Blu ray, cable or sat HD, computer graphics card with dvi out, ATSC/Qam tuner (computer or stand-alone etc) Lots of choices

I don't have that set but it looks like it has DVI-HDCP inputs as well as component, so you should be able to feed it HD via either the component inputs or the DVI- input; so if you satellite box has either component or HDMI out you should be fine outputting 1080i to that tv

Why upconvert when you have a 1080i capabilty? Get 1080i source material (e.g. Blu ray, cable or sat HD, computer graphics card with dvi out, ATSC/Qam tuner (computer or stand-alone etc) Lots of choices

yes I understand both 1080 input is better
and I need a new device to input 1080i

BUT ALL THAT COSTS $$$$$


sony claims this tv will upconvert to 1080i
and display that on screen
and upcoverting is free
as it is claimed to be already in the tv
so how do I get it to work
does it only up convert a component input or dvi-hdcp
from my existing nonHD sat box
but not co-ax or ''S''?

as the sat box is about 30+ feet any from this TV
I would like to see a better then 480 picture

WITHOUT BUYING MORE STUFF

If you are seeing any picture at all it is "upconverting to 1080i". You aren't going to see anything higher than 480i resolution because that is all your satellite box can send out. If you upgrade to an HD receiver then you could see true 720p/1080i.

You shouldn't connect the TV with coax however because that will give you the worst picture quality. If your satellite box has a component video output (green, red, blue outputs) you should use that, if not use the s-video output, if for some reason there isn't an s-video output use the composite (yellow) output. I have a basic standard definition satellite box hooked up to a 1080i 26" Panasonic widescreen CRT using s-video (that's the best video output the box has). It looks decent.

WITHOUT BUYING MORE STUFF

That's your only option to see real HD content. Upconversion of a standard signal isn't HD like you see in the stores.

.....sony claims this tv will upconvert to 1080i and display that on screen and upcoverting is free as it is claimed to be already in the tv so how do I get it to work does it only up convert a component input or dvi-hdcp from my existing nonHD sat box but not co-ax or ''S''?......The set upconverts 480i inputs for display at 1080i for all input types. However, an rf input (coax) is the worst case 480i input. RF, composite, s-video, component and dvi are considered to be worst to best.

An SD DVD player connected with component or dvi and running a well made DVD can result in a very good upconverted presentation.

yes I understand both 1080 input is better
and I need a new device to input 1080i

BUT ALL THAT COSTS $$$$$


sony claims this tv will upconvert to 1080i
and display that on screen
and upcoverting is free
as it is claimed to be already in the tv
so how do I get it to work
does it only up convert a component input or dvi-hdcp
from my existing nonHD sat box
but not co-ax or ''S''?

as the sat box is about 30+ feet any from this TV
I would like to see a better then 480 picture

WITHOUT BUYING MORE STUFF

Wow.
The native resolution of the TV is 1080i so whatever signal you feed it, it will
automatically upconvert it to 1080i. Feeding 1080i on a 1080i TV is night and
day compare to feeding it 480i and then let the TV upconvert it to 1080i. The
TV has a digital tuner in it. If you don't want to spend money to get real HD
then we can't help you any further.

Wow.
The native resolution of the TV is 1080i so whatever signal you feed it, it will
automatically upconvert it to 1080i. Feeding 1080i on a 1080i TV is night and
day compare to feeding it 480i and then let the TV upconvert it to 1080i. The
TV has a digital tuner in it. If you don't want to spend money to get real HD
then we can't help you any further.

maybe I have a strange idea what 1080i should look like upconverted
but I expected to see 1080 dots even if as upconverted 4 dots would be the same color and brightness level as they are 1 480i dot up converted
but I donot see that
I did hook up a progressive scan DVD by "S" video cable and watched a movie
IT LOOK A LITTLE BETTER but not very different from the sat co-ax picture
while the sony has a good picture so maybe I am misunderstanding what I should be seeing

but as I type this on a 19 CRT monitor set at about that rate [ 1040 ]
the dots are very small on the monitor

and running off the same sat tuner and co-ax at 480i as the sony
is a 19 LCD TV that is 720P
those pixel dots are to small to see almost

while on the sony I can see the pixel dots clearly [well rectangles]
and it looks about the same as my now dead 32'' toshiba did at 480i

and BTW my sony KV32HV600 is ""digital ready""
BUT HAS NO DIGITAL TUNER in it
it was built in 2-2003

and running off the same sat tuner and co-ax at 480i as the sony
is a 19 LCD TV that is 720P
those pixel dots are to small to see almost

while on the sony I can see the pixel dots clearly [well rectangles]
and it looks about the same as my now dead 32'' toshiba did at 480i

Well the LCD is smaller, and has a finer horizontal resolution, so yes it does have a smaller "dot pitch" than the big Sony. Plus your Sony TV doesn't really have the full horizontal resolution that you'd expect from a computer monitor, but that's another whole discussion.

There has been a debate about whether or not these Sony sets actually do upconvert 480 signals, I tend to believe they don't just based on what I see on my own XBR970. I think they display 480i/p input as 480p, and display 720p/1080i input as 1080i. (But I don't want to argue about it.)

:)
thats what I thought I was seeing 480 not 1080i
thank you

These sets only have one display resolution, 1080i. All other resolutions are up/down converted by the DRC/MID processors. That being said, a 480i input presents itself in WIDELY varying degrees of quality. From rf modulated garbage to pristine component or DVI/HDMI DVD player output.

nota: You are seeing a presentation of 480i upconverted to 1080i. If that 480i is of low quality then its upconversion will be lousy. BTW, upconversion of 480i to HD resolutions does NOT actually create the equivalent to an HD source if that's what your expecting.

Get yourself an HD source if you want to see what real HD looks like. It can look VERY good on a Sony CRT.

nota, there's a saying on AVS..."garbage in, garbage out". Feed your display a piss poor video signal, and that's exactly what you'll see at the other end on your screen. Don't blame the TV, blame the jerk-offs at the cable or broadcasting company for compressing your video signal. If you want "free" HDTV, then get on Ebay or Craigslist and buy a used HD Tuner. Be sure to buy an HD Antenna w/that HD Tuner, and you're good to go. For myself, I have a SA 8300 Dual HD Tuner/Recorder (DVR) that works OK, but wish Brighthouse Cable would upgrade to something a bit newer. Fat chance, I'm sure..

PS: If you've got a Progressive DVD Player, I recommend using component cables for the hook-up, rather than S-Video for a better pic.

OK, well disregard what I said. My eyes have lied to me before when trying to count vertical lines. :D Like they said, signal quality makes all the difference, and the non-superfine pitch Sony tubes just aren't as high-res horizontally as a high-end monitor. But if you sit 6 feet or so away it will look great with a good video source.

These sets only have one display resolution, 1080i.This is incorrect.

The display resolution for SD/480i inputs is determined by the Advanced DRC Video options on the TV. The PROGRESSIVE and CINEMOTION settings display 480i signals as 480p. The INTERLACED setting displays 480i as 960i. Most folks who've used these TVs for some time prefer the INTERLACED mode (even though it may exhibit a bit more jaggies), because the vertical resolution is higher, and motion looks a little smoother with this mode. This is about as close as you can get to HD on the TV, without actually supplying it an HD (1080i) source.

A progressive 480p input from your player (fed via one of the component video inputs) will also display as 480p, not 1080i. However most folks will avoid using 480p inputs because the progressive display mode on Sony TVs tends to be more fatiguing to the eyes, and for the other reasons stated above.

Also note, since this is a 4:3 aspect ratio TV, when you feed it an HD source, it will switch to a 16:9 widescreen display mode, with black bars on top and bottom of the picture.

One thing that may help a little is to configure your DVD player for a 16:9 TV in the DVD player's setup options. Even though the TV is 4:3 ratio, it has a V-compression feature that will improve the vertical resolution on anamorphic widescreen DVDs, when the DVD player is configured to 16:9.

I also recommend using component cables with the DVD player (unless you have an HDMI DVD player, which can be run into the DVI port with an HDMI->DVI cable or adapter at 1080i). You can try it with the DVD player's component output set to either progressive or interlaced. However, as mentioned above most Sony TV users tend to find the progressive 480p mode more fatiguing after watching it for awhile. YMMV of course.

My 2002 Sony 34XBR800 does not have a built-in digital/HD tuner either, so I know pretty much exactly what you're goin through nota.

These sets only have one display resolution, 1080i. ...

This is incorrect......I'll have to reference a previous thread on this subject here (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7750192&&#post7750192). The Sony troubleshooting document indicates that the DA4 chassis has a fixed, horizontal scan rate of 33.75kHz, which equates to 1080i, which I have validated with a scope for all input resolutions. I have not, however, tested whether the vertical scan rate changes to 540p when DRC 480p is selected for a 480i source or for an input signal of 480p. But the Sony document makes absolutely no mention of the ability to progressively scan the crt.

I see this is turf you've been over before raouliii. FWIW, my position on the subject is essentially the same as Ken's in that earlier discussion. In the 6+ years I've been tinkering with my XBR800, I haven't seen anything to indicate that it internally scales 480i to 1080i. I have to use either a PC or a good upscaling DVD player to achieve that. FWIW, all the tests I've run indicate that the TV works as described in my previous post above, and converts 480i to display either as 480p or 960i (depending on how the Advanced DRC Video options are configured), and displays a standard 31.5kHz 480p signal as 480p.

If you have the NTSC/SD Component edition of DVE, I can probably suggest a couple tests to help determine if your TV works the same way and is also capable of switching between interlaced and progressive scanning. The XBR970 could work differently than my XBR800 though.

The Sony troubleshooting document indicates that the DA4 chassis has a fixed, horizontal scan rate of 33.75kHz, which equates to 1080i, which I have validated with a scope for all input resolutions.

Ok. Bear in mind though that 33.75kHz is not limited exclusively to 1080i and 540p. While it's true those are the typical resolutions used with that scanrate, it's also possible to display 480p and 960i at 33.75kHz by increasing the front and back porches on the 33.75kHz signal. Just about any good computer or graphics card these days has this type of capability built-in to help deal with overscan issues when connecting a PC to an HDTV. (There's also a program called Powerstrip that alot of AVSers used for the same thing.)

^
I remember about how DRC converts 480i to 480p or 960i. Way back when I first
have the XBR960 and it's also true on the XBR970. I don't know if it's true or not
but I remember someone had a proof or some sort.

The specs are located here:

http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/model-home.pl?mdl=KV32HV600&LOC=3

Click on Manuals-Specs-Warranty to get more info.

FYI.

I have a PS3 Blu ray to Sony CRT digital ready question -- specifically my warhorse Sony KV-34XBR800.

I have a Playstation 3 hooked up to it via component cabling and am experiencing jitteriness on the Blu ray playback -- when the camera is moving fast, it looks like the motion is in a stopgap effect. The movement is simply not fluid as the same sequences appear on my regular DVD player.

There are a plethora of variable settings on the PS3 and on the XBR, and I am driving myself crazy trying to get the perfect alignment.

I gather that this problem has something to with the 24 frames per second(?) issue, but I'm noticing the same problem on Blu rays of TV shows such as Band of Brothers.

Does anyone know offhand what the proper settings should be?

Would I be better off if I hooked it up via the lone DVI input with a HDMI/DVI converter cable? (I'd hate to do this as that input is occupied by my DirecTV HD DVR (HR-20 & AM21 OTA tuner) but would do so if this is the only way this problem go away.)

Any advice?

is there any way to get rid of the video 5 logo in green
thats stays on screen when useing ota thru my sony sat receiver/ota tuner

I have a PS3 Blu ray to Sony CRT digital ready question -- specifically my warhorse Sony KV-34XBR800....Any advice?

I have no idea, but if none of the DRC options fix it (and they likely won't), then trying different cables is your only option.

nota: Press Display on the remote, or wait and Video 5 should go away in a minute or less, Video 5 is the Component video connection. Video 5 stays on the screen if there is no signal (black screen).

nota: Press Display on the remote, or wait and Video 5 should go away in a minute or less, Video 5 is the Component video connection. Video 5 stays on the screen if there is no signal (black screen).

thanks my old sony sat-100hd tv/ota box does not time out the video5 logo
and I am useing the component video out put as it has NO dvi or hdmi ports
but hitting display did kill the video 5 logo

Glad to help. Strange it didn't just time out, but fortunately, you can make it go away and not burn into the screen!

I guess I was fooled by ''digital'' ''ready''and 1080i claims
LOL.

All greenhorns take note of consumer electronics 101, rule#46

When they say blah-blah-READY, it means, for it to do what you want, YOU WILL HAVE TO SPEND (ALOT) MORE MONEY to purchase an add-on.

Like they sell u a car without engine road-ready. But hey, the chassis is able to take the road's punishment, the tires are rated for road use! They just don't tell u you will need to add an engine to really drive it!

disappointed to learn this
from the link wiki on wega CRTs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FD_Trinitron_WEGA

Super Fine Pitch 1440x1080i
Hi-Scan 853x1080i

so NO SONY CRT is true 1920x1080
hi-scan is less the then 1/2 of 1920
and so called super fine pitch is about 3/4

so I was right in a early post when

I said my HS wega does not look like a true 1080
thats because less then 1/2 the data/dots are there
and in fact has less dots then a 720 x 1200 LCD
I call shenanigans on sony calling these sets HD or 1080i

btw when in letter box and less then full screen
if the FULL screen is 1080x853
are we seeing far less then that number used ?????????
so what is the true letter box pixel count ???????

Resolution is not the most important aspect of a display device. These sets look fantastic regardless of what the true resolution may be. According to ISF the most important PQ aspects are:

1. Contrast Ratio
2. Color Saturation
3. Color Accuracy
4. Resolution

Resolution is not the most important aspect of a display device. These sets look fantastic regardless of what the true resolution may be. According to ISF the most important PQ aspects are:

1. Contrast Ratio
2. Color Saturation
3. Color Accuracy
4. Resolution

btw when in letter box and less then full screen
if the FULL screen is 1080x853
are we seeing far less then that number used ?????????
so what is the true letter box pixel count ????

btw when in letter box and less then full screen
if the FULL screen is 1080x853
are we seeing far less then that number used ?????????
so what is the true letter box pixel count ????

EDIT - below is in reference to 4:3 sets

Depends - nothing is different (wrt resolution) on most of the later Sony SFP sets because when they detect an HD signal the sets automatically squeeze all the horizontal scan lines (the 1080i part of your above number) into a lower height letter box.

Previous and other HD sets, like my RCA MM36100, do still scan full screen, lop off the top and bottom outside of the letter box and just display the picture within those scan lines only - with black lines outside the letter box. If you get one of those sets you can do the easy math

Depends - nothing is different (wrt resolution) on most of the later Sony SFP sets because when they detect an HD signal the sets automatically squeeze all the horizontal scan lines (the 1080i part of your above number) into a lower height letter box......You're referencing the 4:3 sets, yes?

I have a PS3 Blu ray to Sony CRT digital ready question -- specifically my warhorse Sony KV-34XBR800.

I have a Playstation 3 hooked up to it via component cabling and am experiencing jitteriness on the Blu ray playback -- when the camera is moving fast, it looks like the motion is in a stopgap effect. The movement is simply not fluid as the same sequences appear on my regular DVD player.

There are a plethora of variable settings on the PS3 and on the XBR, and I am driving myself crazy trying to get the perfect alignment.

I gather that this problem has something to with the 24 frames per second(?) issue, but I'm noticing the same problem on Blu rays of TV shows such as Band of Brothers.

Does anyone know offhand what the proper settings should be?

Would I be better off if I hooked it up via the lone DVI input with a HDMI/DVI converter cable? (I'd hate to do this as that input is occupied by my DirecTV HD DVR (HR-20 & AM21 OTA tuner) but would do so if this is the only way this problem go away.)

Any advice?

Not sure what you mean by "the motion is in a stopgap effect." Are you talking about judder? That's when the video appears to shake during long camera pans. That's going to be a problem on any American (NTSC) CRT TV set when watching film material-possibly including TV shows like Band of Brothers that (I assume) were shot on film. DVD is not immune to this effect either, although it may be more apparent on the PS3.

If you're talking about something else, like actual slowdown of the video, I really have no idea. I have a PS3 on a Sony CRT connected through component and I've never seen any kind of slowdown unless there was a scratched disc involved.

You're referencing the 4:3 sets, yes?

yes - I didn't give much thought to letterboxing on a 16:9 set. Do they ever letterbox? Or is it just that scope movies appear to be in a letterbox which I believe has blank lines sent for the part of picture outside the letterbox.

EDIT - below is in reference to 4:3 sets

Depends - nothing is different (wrt resolution) on most of the later Sony SFP sets because when they detect an HD signal the sets automatically squeeze all the horizontal scan lines (the 1080i part of your above number) into a lower height letter box.

Previous and other HD sets, like my RCA MM36100, do still scan full screen, lop off the top and bottom outside of the letter box and just display the picture within those scan lines only - with black lines outside the letter box. If you get one of those sets you can do the easy math


afaik
there is only 1 SFP 4x3 set the 36sx955
all the other 4x3 are hi-scan at 1080x853 full screen

so what is a HS set's letter boxed line/pixel count ??