*Anyone know how high I can go with an antenna? I have cemented a 1" pole into a home depot 5 gallon bucket (using 50 pounds of quickcrete) and it's only 7 feet high. Seems if I go to 15-20 feet high I will have to have some kind of base under the bucket for wind? Maybe I can make an X with some 2X4's as a base....

Would a 1" inch pipe be stable at 15-20ft? Seems as if the base is more important.... Should I go with a 2" pipe? Any suggestions?


thanks, techno



thanks, techno

Were you going to attach a Winegard 8200 or a DB2 to the pole? There's a huge difference....

The larger the antenna, the shorter you must stay.

Go only as tall as needed for reception while remaining stability.

Does it have to be a home depot bucket? :)

Were you going to attach a Winegard 8200 or a DB2 to the pole? There's a huge difference....

The larger the antenna, the shorter you must stay.

Go only as tall as needed for reception while remaining stability.


I bought a Clearstream C4... Is it any good???

How high do I really need to go? I am only at 7ft and pulling in 5-7 HD stations about 56 miles away. (getting about 40% signal strength) All the analog stations are fuzzy, not sure why?

Also I was told I should ground the coax with a copper rod 2-4 feet deep into the ground?

thanks, techno

A couple of thoughts:

You don't mention what kind of pipe. Standard water pipe?

Using guy wires would help a lot. Without guy wires, you really need a lot to keep the mast from leaning or falling in a heavy wind, if an antenna is installed (i.e., wind loading).

Grounding would be a help if lightning protection is appropriate. The length of the ground rod needed depends greatly on the type of soil. Marshy soil is great, dry clay is almost worthless.

I bought a Clearstream C4... Is it any good???

How high do I really need to go? I am only at 7ft and pulling in 5-7 HD stations about 56 miles away. (getting about 40% signal strength) All the analog stations are fuzzy, not sure why?

Also I was told I should ground the coax with a copper rod 2-4 feet deep into the ground?

thanks, techno

The C4 is an excellent antenna for its intended use. I tested one recently at my home and just barely gave the edge to a 91XG due to a particularly difficult local PBS station combined with my terrain problems. If that station had been at full capability, the C4 would have stayed up there due to the WAF. I'll likely try it again later this summer after the local PBS stations finish their engineering work. The WAF is still in play....

Your reception of the analog stations is (or will be in a month) irrelevant but are likely snowy if they are VHF-low (2-6) channels. The C4 has little capability at those frequencies. It's generally good for high-VHF up to around 50 miles and for UHF up to 65 miles (and beyond under good conditions).

The indicated signal strength on your TV is also not particularly relevant as long as you are not experiencing disruptions of your picture and your audio. The indicated scale isn't of much use except to try to peak your antenna's location and pointing.

.....How high do I really need to go? I am only at 7ft and pulling in 5-7 HD stations about 56 miles away. (getting about 40% signal strength) All the analog stations are fuzzy, not sure why? Also I was told I should ground the coax with a copper rod 2-4 feet deep into the ground? thanks, techno

assuming u have one, how about an attic mount? that gets the antenna out of the weather and eliminates any other issues with your home made cement pole mount....

and if not in the attic consider a chimney strap mount....if u have a chimney ....

and forget about the analog stations....most or all of them will be gone after june 12th....

terchno,
You say you are getting 5-7 stations from the towers that are 56 miles away. How many stations that are available at that location are you not getting at all.
The reason for the PS analog content is probably due to the fact that I suspect that you have a 720p or 1080p HD resolution HDTV and the upscaling of any 480i SD analog stations by the TV woiuld cause a reduction in PQ.

terchno,
You say you are getting 5-7 stations from the towers that are 56 miles away. How many stations that are available at that location are you not getting at all.
The reason for the PS analog content is probably due to the fact that I suspect that you have a 720p or 1080p HD resolution HDTV and the upscaling of any 480i SD analog stations by the TV woiuld cause a reduction in PQ.

I am probably pulling in 20-30 stations total, with about 6-8 very clear HD stations... all the rest are fuzzy...

Would I be right to assume those are the analog stations?
Are the analogs going away in June? Will they just be converted to digital?

techno

assuming u have one, how about an attic mount? that gets the antenna out of the weather and eliminates any other issues with your home made cement pole mount....

and if not in the attic consider a chimney strap mount....if u have a chimney ....

and forget about the analog stations....most or all of them will be gone after june 12th....


I don't want to get up into my attic - I want the antenna sort of near me incase I need to adjust it.....

So i figure the bucket method is good for now.....


maybe I could put the bucket and antenna up against the house and strap it to the outside wall for wind....


thanks, techno

So if I add a VHF antenna would I be doing myself any good?

Also - the C4 is at 7ft right now - if I raise it to 15 feet would that make any difference? also do you think outside is better than an attic mount?

Which is the 91XG?

So far I like the C4!!!!! + it looks cool.... you think it will do ok in high wind?

thanks, techno


The C4 is an excellent antenna for its intended use. I tested one recently at my home and just barely gave the edge to a 91XG due to a particularly difficult local PBS station combined with my terrain problems. If that station had been at full capability, the C4 would have stayed up there due to the WAF. I'll likely try it again later this summer after the local PBS stations finish their engineering work. The WAF is still in play....

Your reception of the analog stations is (or will be in a month) irrelevant but are likely snowy if they are VHF-low (2-6) channels. The C4 has little capability at those frequencies. It's generally good for high-VHF up to around 50 miles and for UHF up to 65 miles (and beyond under good conditions).

The indicated signal strength on your TV is also not particularly relevant as long as you are not experiencing disruptions of your picture and your audio. The indicated scale isn't of much use except to try to peak your antenna's location and pointing.

A couple of thoughts:

You don't mention what kind of pipe. Standard water pipe?

Using guy wires would help a lot. Without guy wires, you really need a lot to keep the mast from leaning or falling in a heavy wind, if an antenna is installed (i.e., wind loading).

Grounding would be a help if lightning protection is appropriate. The length of the ground rod needed depends greatly on the type of soil. Marshy soil is great, dry clay is almost worthless.

Seems like a pretty durable pipe! All steel, no bending. I think it's a water pipe! all I know is it's silver and very very strong. about 1 1/8th inch in Diameter.

As far as grounding is concerned - could I just drive a copper pole in the ground and ground it that way? Or should it be connetced to the house ground or both?


And should I ground the mast and the coax to the same ground? (should I ground both the mast and the coax)
I would appreciate any help with grounding!!!!! I want to do this right!!!


thanks, techno

......I want to do this right!!! thanks, techno

?....u do, huh? and yet u say things like >

'maybe I could put the bucket and antenna up against the house and strap it to the outside wall for wind....'

now thats going to really look like hell AND be prone to all kinds of problems...lol...dam...it sounds crazy to me but it takes all kinds, i guess...i have wonder what other wacky things u've done to your house....lol

As far as grounding is concerned - could I just drive a copper pole in the ground and ground it that way? Or should it be connetced to the house ground or both?

And should I ground the mast and the coax to the same ground? (should I ground both the mast and the coax)
I would appreciate any help with grounding!!!!! I want to do this right!!!


to be done to building code in many places and best practice the antenna (mast and coax) should be grounded to an 8 foot grounding rod which is then connected to your house electrical ground system.

with your temporary mounting you might just disconnect it during storms.

if you want to go to the effort of putting a ground rod for the antenna and connect that to your house electrical ground to do it right then you might also put the mast into the earth (dig a hole the size of the bucket, pour an inch or two of stones in, put the mast in the center of the hole, fill in with stones, tamp it down).

to be done to building code in many places and best practice the antenna (mast and coax) should be grounded to an 8 foot grounding rod which is then connected to your house electrical ground system.

with your temporary mounting you might just disconnect it during storms.

if you want to go to the effort of putting a ground rod for the antenna and connect that to your house electrical ground to do it right then you might also put the mast into the earth (dig a hole the size of the bucket, pour an inch or two of stones in, put the mast in the center of the hole, fill in with stones, tamp it down).

thanks for your help! so if I put the mast into the earth, do I still need an 8 foot grounding rod? Couldn't I just connect a copper wire from the mast to the house ground? And also ground the coax by using the mast instead of the 8 foot grounding rod?

Also should I go to my "main" ground which is by my electrical panel or could I use a ground from an outlet inside the house? (reason being that for me to reach the "main ground" by the panel I would have to run over 150 feet of copper wire) - the antenna is on the south side of the house and the
panel is on NW side of the house.... I could run some copper maybe 20-40 feet to an inside electrical outlet instead.... just drill a hole in the side of the house and attach the copper wire to the junction box inside the wall...?


thanks for all your advice!!!

*I just talked to an old friend who did some antenna installs (non-professional) back in the 70's and he said "just strap the antenna to the chimney and run a ground wire from the mast to a metal stake in the ground, should only take a few hours"...(He was like don't worry about putting in an 8 foot copper rod - he even said you don't have to ground the coax) - I told him that people are grounding the coax and also running copper to the house main... He said "that's overkill".


thanks, techno

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your "installation" is so bush league as to be laughable. Home Depot bucket and a pipe? Now you talk about driving a ground rod into the earth or running 30 feet of "ground wire" to an electrical box?

Please stop. Before you electrocute yourself or kill someone else with a runaway antenna.

Put the antenna on the roof. Ground the coax. Don't hurt yourself. Or get cable/satellite. (They'll ground their own cable.)

thanks for your help! so if I put the mast into the earth, do I still need an 8 foot grounding rod? Couldn't I just connect a copper wire from the mast to the house ground? And also ground the coax by using the mast instead of the 8 foot grounding rod?

Also should I go to my "main" ground which is by my electrical panel or could I use a ground from an outlet inside the house? (reason being that for me to reach the "main ground" by the panel I would have to run over 150 feet of copper wire) - the antenna is on the south side of the house and the
panel is on NW side of the house.... I could run some copper maybe 20-40 feet to an inside electrical outlet instead.... just drill a hole in the side of the house and attach the copper wire to the junction box inside the wall...?

*I just talked to an old friend who did some antenna installs (non-professional) back in the 70's and he said "just strap the antenna to the chimney and run a ground wire from the mast to a metal stake in the ground, should only take a few hours"...(He was like don't worry about putting in an 8 foot copper rod - he even said you don't have to ground the coax) - I told him that people are grounding the coax and also running copper to the house main... He said "that's overkill".


on your advice from an old friend. many people consider doing things to building code to be overkill. people live with hazards all the time, some times life happens that the hazards don't produce catastrophic events for some lucky people, others get affected. some people go through like without guards on power saws, not wearing seat belts, not having smoke alarms and smoking while filling the gas tank and never have a problem, they are lucky and should buy lottery tickets. if you look in this forum you will find accounts of people loosing equipment and nearly have their house burnt down when things weren't done to code and even if it was as far as lightning hazards. everyone needs to decide what level of risk is acceptable to them.

building code (in much of the USA) specifies the antenna grounded to an 8 foot grounding rod, if your antenna mast goes into the ground 8 feet then you could consider that good. though any grounding even if not to code is better than nothing.

connecting the antenna grounding rod to an inside electrical outlet grounding conductor is better than nothing but it will not be to code.

Or get cable/satellite. (They'll ground their own cable.)

Sure they will... As long as you're there to oversee the installation, and you make it abundantly clear that you won't sign off until the grounding is done right. We live in the nation's second-worst location for lightning strikes (Fla. is tops), and you'd be flabbergasted at the number of cable drops and satellite dishes around here that aren't grounded at all.

The pay-TV companies' cavalier attitude toward customers, building codes and safety is why I loathe them, and avoid doing business with them if at all possible.

This is impossible to know without knowing what antenna you are planning to place, a light antenna may be okay, but how windy is it, if its big and light, wind plays a role, then you are looking to have to "tie it down" for stability. Personally I wouldn't worry about bush league comments, if it works, it works.

But at 15 to 20 feet you could find yourself in a world of hurt physically or financially if it isn't secured right. Rule of thumb, with what you are trying to do, keep it as short as possible, if it goes over 10 feed tie it down, every 10 feet. If you plan on moving it around alot and it won't be near a house, long tent stakes might be of use.

If you don't use guywires there is a great chance it could fall.

Be careful,

tpintsch

This is impossible to know without knowing what antenna you are planning to place, a light antenna may be okay, but how windy is it, if its big and light, wind plays a role, then you are looking to have to "tie it down" for stability. Personally I wouldn't worry about bush league comments, if it works, it works.

But at 15 to 20 feet you could find yourself in a world of hurt physically or financially if it isn't secured right. Rule of thumb, with what you are trying to do, keep it as short as possible, if it goes over 10 feed tie it down, every 10 feet. If you plan on moving it around alot and it won't be near a house, long tent stakes might be of use.

If you don't use guywires there is a great chance it could fall.

Be careful,

tpintsch

thanks! I rather not have it on the roof and want it to be 100% completely mobile so I can move it at a moments notice but also have it work great and be up to code. Any suggestions? I think there are some very lightweight and also very portable tripods on the market for antennas (and I thing they can telescope to 20-30 ft!) but they might be expensive???

*Anyone know about the tripod mounts that have a telescoping mast that are truly portable and light? (maybe there are military grade/lightweight/strong tripod mounts out there)

also I have an antennas direct Clearstream C4 - not so sure how good it will be in high winds?? but it looks pretty well designed and fairly aerodynamic.

thanks, techno

thanks! I rather not have it on the roof and want it to be 100% completely mobile so I can move it at a moments notice but also have it work great and be up to code. Any suggestions? I think there are some very lightweight and also very portable tripods on the market for antennas (and I thing they can telescope to 20-30 ft!) but they might be expensive???

there are 30 foot telescoping masts or you could use 3 sections of fit together mast, either needs to be guyed every 10 feet. you could maybe sink a metal fence T post 2 feet into the ground as a base. you would need to do frequent maintenance on it to keep it up.

you could start with a roof tripod as a base and stake it down into the ground a few feet in all three corners.

if you wanted to do this 100% mobile, at a moments notice and up to code then with 3 people who worked fast you might get it up in half an hour if things went well and you were practiced at it.

there are 30 foot telescoping masts or you could use 3 sections of fit together mast, either needs to be guyed every 10 feet. you could maybe sink a metal fence T post 2 feet into the ground as a base. you would need to do frequent maintenance on it to keep it up.

you could start with a roof tripod as a base and stake it down into the ground a few feet in all three corners.

if you wanted to do this 100% mobile, at a moments notice and up to code then with 3 people who worked fast you might get it up in half an hour if things went well and you were practiced at it.

thanks for all your help!

would you know if there could be any height restrictions (i.e., city laws) for an antenna that would be on a tripod mount at say 30-50 feet with guy wires? -just wondering if a neighbor complained, would they have any say so or "rights" ....

I guess this thing could look pretty ugly at 50 feet!

thanks, techno

would you know if there could be any height restrictions (i.e., city laws) for an antenna that would be on a tripod mount at say 30-50 feet with guy wires? -just wondering if a neighbor complained, would they have any say so or "rights" ....

in the USA this pertains

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

whatever it takes to get stations in your local tv market is allowed in general. you still need to follow any building codes that would still apply in compliance with this regulation.