John congrat again on NAB. Quick technical question; after the Penteo process what comes out of the front left and front right speakers. Is it the stereo mix untouched or is what is left after the center ,hard left and hard right are parsed out?

what comes out of the front left and front right speakers?

Definitions:
XPL=extracted pure left
XPR=extracted pure right
XPC=extracted pure center
L->C=material panned halfway between left and center
C->R=material panned halfway between center and right
Lo/Ro=The original stereo mix (Left original/Right original)
Lt/Rt=The downmixed stereo mix derived from the 5.1 upmix (Left Total;/Right Total)

It depends. L->C and C->R don't exist on pre-1976 or so studio recordings. It was before the invention of pan pots!

So you have a choice of Lo/Ro in the fronts or dupe the XPL/XPR in fronts and rears. XPC always goes to the center.
Different film mixers like it different ways, so for film work like the new Tarantino project, we just send back the raw components and let them mix it.

On more recent material, we find the most realistic is to either leave the Lo/Ro in the fronts (your choice of level), or else dupe the XPL/XPR in the fronts. Nothing is lost or gained either way, it's just whether you like center vocals only in the discrete center (most people do) or if you want them spread across the three front speakers.

Of course we have do deal with the fact that most home systems don't have full range center speakers, so we provide the option to put the bass in the fronts regardless of the mix choice. And there's also an LFE option.

Bass management from the stereo era of two full-range speakers to 5 speakers that are unpredictable in range is a crap shoot, but we try our best. Fortunately in movie theaters, you don't have that problem!

On the broadcast unit, the setup engineer has a choice of 3 modes, each modifying the fronts, but all Lt/Rt always equals the Lo/Ro when downmixed. It's automatic.

And we also have a 3-fronts mode (XPL/XPC/XPR only) as well as triangle (mostly for club sound) with no fronts!

Could the Pento extraction process be adapted to decode out of phase information and have only that go into the surrounds?

If your decoding process can handle it and have it be more stable than the current matrix decoding methods, that alone could easily earn a spot on most A/V receivers. :)

Could the Pento extraction process be adapted to decode out of phase information and have only that go into the surrounds?

If your decoding process can handle it and have it be more stable than the current matrix decoding methods, that alone could easily earn a spot on most A/V receivers. :)

I've been asked that question before, and the answer is, I don't know. If anyone has any access to any SQ or QS encoded 2-track masters or transfers, lemme know.

John have you ever tried running any of the RCA or Telarc CDs from the 1990s which were encoded in Dolby Surround through Penteo?

John,

You don't need surround encoded 2-channel material. Any CD should do. To extract the centre channel, your processing currently looks for correlated (in-phase) mono (same content) in both channels. Is it possible to modify your processing so it looks for de-correlated (out-of-phase) mono content?

John,

You don't need surround encoded 2-channel material. Any CD should do. To extract the centre channel, your processing currently looks for correlated (in-phase) mono (same content) in both channels. Is it possible to modify your processing so it looks for de-correlated (out-of-phase) mono content?

Yes.

Yes.Good. For the sake of experimentation, you might want to try sending that content to both surround channels (3dB lower, so that all 5 channels still sum back to Lo/Ro).

Decorrelated info typically doesn't image in the front soundstage (or anywhere in particular). If you put that content in the surrounds, only ambient information will come from around you, with front soundstage information remaining in the front speakers.

Think of it as the audience perspective, compared to the band-member perspective you get by sending XPL/XPR to the surrounds.

Good. For the sake of experimentation, you might want to try sending that content to both surround channels (3dB lower, so that all 5 channels still sum back to Lo/Ro).

Decorrelated info typically doesn't image in the front soundstage (or anywhere in particular). If you put that content in the surrounds, only ambient information will come from around you, with front soundstage information remaining in the front speakers.

Think of it as the audience perspective, compared to the band-member perspective you get by sending XPL/XPR to the surrounds.

Agreed, and (IMHO) is the far more preferable experience. If it was mono, it stays in the center. Stereo would stay true to it's original imaging, and 180 degree out of phase information would go to the surrounds when present. If there's little out of phase information, there's no reason the surrounds "have" to be always active.

Not only would a transparent matrix method as described above offer fantastic extraction from stereo sources, it could also (potentially, if it's a cleaner decoding) be a nice step up for Dolby Surround encoded movies when compared to neo6 or DPL-2.

While it would be great for the Penteo system to be flexible in regard to the way it works (offering the "audience" perspective), it would be a shame if that were all it ended up doing. I see no difference between that and DPLII or DTS Neo:6. Frankly, I find the Penteo mixes that are substantially DIFFERENT from the "audience" perspective that I can already get with DD/DTS modes are the main attraction here. I want, as much as possible, to replicate the discrete MCH mixes of studio material that liberates me from "the audience" perspective, rather than restricts me to that (and, so far, neither of the DD/DTS modes, even after playing with the parameters, has satisfied me in that regard--the Penteo samples I've heard, on the other hand, do a bang up job).

Just my 2 cents.

I want to take a sec to make sure everyone knows that Wednesday night, Inglourious Basterds will be playing at Cannes.

We processed all the stereo music; the source list has finally been released: http://www.slashfilm.com/2009/05/15/inglourious-basterds-soundtrack-listing/

If it wins the Palme D'Or, it would be a good thing. :-)

John ,have any TV stations in the Boston area purchased the Penteo R/T ? Also,would Sirrus/XM have interest in the R/T as they do have 1or 2 surround channels. Wish radio could use the R/T,but HD Radio has stalled; and FM stations wont encode Dolby2 because of mulitpath and downmixing issues.

John ,have any TV stations in the Boston area purchased the Penteo R/T ? Also,would Sirrus/XM have interest in the R/T as they do have 1or 2 surround channels. Wish radio could use the R/T,but HD Radio has stalled; and FM stations wont encode Dolby2 because of mulitpath and downmixing issues.

We have not put it on the air yet; we have contracts in the works for a couple suppliers to start marketing it later this year.

I would love to talk with Sirius/XM, but AFAIK they don't have any true 5.1 receivers. They have the Neural system (recently purchased by DTS) which is more of a matrixing of surround into stereo and back out. I wish they had provisioned a few true 5.1 channels and made receivers that would handle them.

Another idea that I've had is to try to get Dish Network to put on some audio-only 5.1 channels, using Dolby Digital at 448, just like they do the music only channels that currently are MPEG-1 encoded. That way it would work with any home surround system.

Also, with ATSC broadcast television, 5.1 surround channels would make an ideal low-bandwidth secondary channel.

We are wrestling every day with the sad truth that there is -- with the exception of television -- essentially no true 5.1 path into the home.

John, my cable system Comcast, carries Music Choice music channels. it would be nice if they had 1 or 2 Dolby 5.1 music channels.
Also, I thought of posting on radio-info.com the idea you have of a surround radio station on the sub channel of a DTV station..
mgpt6

John, my cable system Comcast, carries Music Choice music channels. it would be nice if they had 1 or 2 Dolby 5.1 music channels.
Also, I thought of posting on radio-info.com the idea you have of a surround radio station on the sub channel of a DTV station..
mgpt6

We have the technology. Now just convince the stations, satellite companies, and/or cable companies!