Hi Guys,

First, a big thanks to those helping me on my satellite questions and concerns. Anyways, I spent numerous hours on research and would love an opinion on my final, first system draft. The goals are:

•Incredible 2 channel music reproduction to compete against 5k to 15k priced towers

•Ability to work well for a 2.1 theatre application, possible used later in a 7.1

•Stream digital music from cpu, controlled by ipod touch

•Last me through three grad school years plus 2 more (5 yrs total)


So, with those in mind, heres the outline with prices attached:

For mains, two ZRT towers (http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8448)in sealed custom built cabinets $2500.00 (w/cabinets and shipping)

For sub, the SVS PC12-NSD (http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pc12_nsd.cfm)$629 Shipped. Originally debated a Dayton for musical reasons, but this is primarily for the HT aspect and has great reviews. Plus, I don't need to build an enclosure.

For power, the Behringer ep2500 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/280617-REG/Behringer_EP2500_EP2500_2_Channel_Rackmount.html). Lots of power, highly regarded and priced right at ~$300 shipped. The other option will be the Emotiva upa-2 (http://emotiva.com/upa2.shtm). Roughly same price, better looks, less power.

For DAC, AVR, and 2 channel + future HT, the Denon 2809CI with Audyssey MultEQ XT (http://www.dakmart.com/product_info.php?products_id=11044). $740 refurb shipped

Apple Airport for wirless digital streaming to Denon (http://images.computeraudiophile.com/graphics/2009/0308/music-distrubution.pdf)

32gb Ipod touch for control of streaming as a remote (among other uses of course!) $350



So, with say $50 in cables ect, comes out to : $4629 :eek::)


This is more for last minute suggestions and comments. Any changes? Also, disregard the huge factor of room acoustics, thats my next step after with measurements and what not. I’m going to have funds for purchasing even sooner then I thought come the end of the week. This is a HUGE purchase for me :o:(:)

Thanks for looking of course!

I hope I'm not doing something stupid or crazy here...

You know that feeling, looking for reassurance....lol

Althought revelator goodness is always assuring in itself ;)

Hi Guys,


For mains, two ZRT towers (http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8448)in sealed custom built cabinets $2500.00 (w/cabinets and shipping)



For that kind of money, I'd be more comfortable with Paradigm Monitor 9s or 11s.

I myself would not buy those towers especially at that price so many other towers in that range to consider.
http://www.axiomaudio.com/m80.html
http://www.wwstereo.com/#/ecommerce/store/Speakers/33/143534/9_1_18_-1__0_0_0_-1/
http://www.svsound.com/products-spks-mts01.cfm
And others, Paradigm, B&W, Klipsch, Monitor Audio, Def Tech, Martin Logan, list goes on, just make sure what ever you get that the front 3 channels should be the same brand/series. Oh and that Behringer amps fan is very loud use some of the money you saved on the cheaper towers and buy a better quality amp like Emotiva or Outlaw audio.

Thanks for the links and those suggestions.

Since I have a week or so to make it final, I'm driving out today for a listen to the paradigm suggestions. Theres a dealer about 20 miles away.

I hope they carry B&W for comparison as well.

But, for sake of reasoning, my passion and desire for the ZRT stemmed from my passion for quality sound reproduction. Thus, I felt the drivers that made up the system should be top notch, as is the case with the ZRT towers.

As I look more at other options, I have no idea about quality of components used and their respective tendencies for distortion ect..., so I get a bit uneasy.

The SVS MTS towers uses the same tweeters as the ZRTs and they get great reviews, the Axiom M80s will play very loud and no distortion, titanium tweeters and alumimiun drivers.

Just came back from auditioning the Paradigm Studio 100's, both version 4 and 5.

They sounded good, version 4 very full and robust, version 5 better imaging and not as full (smaller in size then version 4).

While I liked them somewhat, they didn't have a wow factor, I wasn't amazed :(

Just not for me I guess.


The SVS MTS towers uses the same tweeters as the ZRTs and they get great reviews, the Axiom M80s will play very loud and no distortion, titanium tweeters and alumimiun drivers.



I wish I could audition those! I learned first hand today you should always audition. I mean I knew that, but more that you can't just rely on majority review. Hmmmm, I didn't realize the svs had the same tweet as the ZRT. In fact, now looking at the peerless woofer its paired with, that tweet must be crossed low for that tower...

Wow didnt like the Paradigms? Were they not bright enought or what those are some really great speakers. Check out Klipsch RF 83s http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/rf-83.aspx very bright speaker but 3 8in woofers should give you a full sound. They Axioms have 30 trial so if you dont like them you only pay shipping to send them back around $60 I think. You say that you want to audition speakers have you listened to the ZRTs? If you havent dont compare a speaker you havent listened too to others you have IMO the ZRTs really seem like they would be close to the MTSs from SVS. But of all the posts i've read on here this is the first time anyone has mentioned the ZRTs or any build it yourself kits espcially for that price. In your price range you'll get very good quality speakers so its just a matter of if you like a warm speaker, neutral, or bright.

Wow didnt like the Paradigms? Were they not bright enought or what those are some really great speakers. Check out Klipsch RF 83s http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/rf-83.aspx very bright speaker but 3 8in woofers should give you a full sound. They Axioms have 30 trial so if you dont like them you only pay shipping to send them back around $60 I think. You say that you want to audition speakers have you listened to the ZRTs? If you havent dont compare a speaker you havent listened too to others you have IMO the ZRTs really seem like they would be close to the MTSs from SVS. But of all the posts i've read on here this is the first time anyone has mentioned the ZRTs or any build it yourself kits espcially for that price. In your price range you'll get very good quality speakers so its just a matter of if you like a warm speaker, neutral, or bright.



Nope, they were plenty bright, my preference being smooth/warm. I hit them with reference percussion tracks, hi def vocals, horn work, and some general songs I knew well. It just wasn't, well, amazing or should I say, instant love....I listened for a full hour straight killing the sales guy. lol

As I think about, I just felt, I could do better, in some way....I tried to think of it while listening, but I couldn't describe it...I guess I'll know it when I hear it :)

I will say they were better then the Gello towers they had by far IMO. And I listened to those for another 20min

Regarding the ZRT, I haven't heard the kit built. As you noticed, Zaph seems to be the only guy who built it!! :p:rolleyes:

But I have heard the drivers it pairs together at different times, seperately, and loved them....but car audio to home audio is apples to truffles :o

I'm going into town tomorrow for the B&W 700 series....after that, I dunno yet.

Thanks very much for your opinion and help, it mean a lot.


OHHH! I forgot to add, it looks like I'm going to scrap the above Denon, amp, airport, and ipod for a Mcintosh Integrated amp as power and volume/source control. THAT piece was instant love....:)

Wow didnt like the Paradigms? Were they not bright enought or what those are some really great speakers. Check out Klipsch RF 83s http://www.klipsch.com/products/details/rf-83.aspx very bright speaker but 3 8in woofers should give you a full sound. They Axioms have 30 trial so if you dont like them you only pay shipping to send them back around $60 I think. You say that you want to audition speakers have you listened to the ZRTs? If you havent dont compare a speaker you havent listened too to others you have IMO the ZRTs really seem like they would be close to the MTSs from SVS. But of all the posts i've read on here this is the first time anyone has mentioned the ZRTs or any build it yourself kits espcially for that price. In your price range you'll get very good quality speakers so its just a matter of if you like a warm speaker, neutral, or bright.



Ha, during research found someone with a similar experience as mine today...and look where he ended up!

I don't know what SVS did with the MTS line-up, but they did something right. I was originally going to buy Paradigm (Studio line) and came away unimpressed when I auditioned them. I already owned an SVS sub, so I sent a few emails to Ed Mullen at SVS asking him some questions about the speakers. I took a leap of faith and I purchased them. Best purchase relating to audio that I have ever made. I love my MTS speakers, it really is hard to imagine speakers getting much better.

The SVS speaker set only cost a few hundred more than my Infinity system. It should be a lot more. If your looking to buy, give them a shot. SVS has a 45 day in home trial.

Just came back from auditioning the Paradigm Studio 100's, both version 4 and 5.

They sounded good, version 4 very full and robust, version 5 better imaging and not as full (smaller in size then version 4).


What you hear in a show room and what you will hear in your listening room are almost completely irrelevant - room acoustics make *that* much different.

Long term, speakers with *wow* factor often turn out to be irritating.

As I look more at other options, I have no idea about quality of components used and their respective tendencies for distortion ect..., so I get a bit uneasy.

Once loudspeaker components reach a certain farily minimal level, much more the goodness of the sound comes from how the components are integrated.

Large manufacturer's pay only a fraction per driver of the prices you see on component speaker web sites. Maybe like a quarter, or less.

Buy the system, not how it is made or what it is made out of.

Im a DIYer myself so maybe its bias but if you have the tools and the skills then the ZRT build is going to be incredible and far better performance/$$$ choice then anything commercial.

I have come to realize that DIY is about a 4:1 ratio...a $1000 DIY project compares to $4000 commercial speakers.

Now, Zaph (who designed the ZRT) is selling kits through madisound, which still is good but a little more expensive.

As a DIYer I have zero issues with buying kits, building speakers with the end resulting sound unknown because DIY projects/kits have one thing in mind, performance and quality. Therefore I know I will like the sound.

For mains, two ZRT towers in sealed custom built cabinets $2500.00 (w/cabinets and shipping)


hmm...just noticed the $$$, the kits are only $1500, you are paying $1K for cabinets?

You can get MDF cabinets done for around $200 and you just have to finish them.

Thus, I felt the drivers that made up the system should be top notch, as is the case with the ZRT towers.


Sound Quality comes from crossovers/box design/box build and not from the price of drivers. They are great drivers in that design but there are many, many other drivers out there that are as good and cost less.

Thanks for the words and input guys, I really appreciate it.

Regarding the 1k extra price on the zrt kit, I was estimating cost to build them, finish them, and ship them. In reality, the price would be $2180 total. However, things have changed and I've taken a more active route the last few days audtioning countless speakers, I just don't have the skills for DIY as I do for the car. In any case, I had a good 15+ hours of audition time since Sunday alone and decided on a tower pair.

My big debate now is between integrated amps or going seperate (Amp + AVR as a DAC). Going integrated means I would need some sort of DAC (non avr) though too.

My top to contenders are the McIntosh MA6330, Musical Fidelity a5.5, and well, something like a Denon AVR to Mac amp or possibly a pro amp ;)

I don't know, I'm literally swinging the pricetag from 4k to 1k on power and conversion alone lol

I have a date with the towers tomorrow paired with the Mac and a5.5.....if only I could test with a pro amp...

I don't know, I'm literally swinging the pricetag from 4k to 1k on power and conversion alone lol

Generally if you have X $$$ to spend on a complete system you should spend 75% or more of your dollars on speakers and 25% on electronics. You will obtain the best sound that way.

SQ comes from speakers, room design and room treatments not from buy expensive electronics. If you waste $$$ on electronics and have crap speakers, everything will sound like crap anyways.

So if you are going to spend $4K on electronics you should be considering $12K speakers ;)

From your budget above, spend $3K on speakers and $1K on electronics. Of course electronics have a $$ floor so maybe $2500 on speakers and $1500 on electronics.

btw, Its cool not to DIY if you find a great speaker, DIY value is in doing it all yourself.

I don't know, I'm literally swinging the pricetag from 4k to 1k on power and conversion alone lol


That's easy - unless you have bad power trouble, like room lights flashing and light bulbs regualrly burning out after just a week, you can safely assign $0.00to power and conversion.

I have a date with the towers tomorrow paired with the Mac and a5.5.....if only I could test with a pro amp...

For the kind of money you are spending, you could run right out and buy a Behringer A500, which is a very home-use-friendly pro power amp and expense it with the gas money you've apparently put into the rest of your project.
;-)

With $4600, spend $4K on speakers and $600 on an AVR. You'll be replacing the AVR in a few years (new tech changes often).

Those new SVS run about that for a set.

That's easy - unless you have bad power trouble, like room lights flashing and light bulbs regualrly burning out after just a week, you can safely assign $0.00to power and conversion.

LOLOL

I meant digital to analog conversion and amp power....sorry. You must have been like this dude is freakn soooo stupid :p;):)

Get the speakers you want and just power them with a Denon 4308ci or a Yamaha RX V3900. Unless you have a gigantic room or listening at hearing loss levels you dont need separates to have good quality sound. Spend the rest of you budget on room treatments, bass traps, absorbers, disfusers that combo will get you better sound IMO than spending $$$$ on a two channel amp.

Well, the tower pair I chose are the B&W CM9's (http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=3986&terid=3992&sc=hf)....and the literature I've read suggests that these at some points will dip in impedence around 2.8 ohms, a hard load for some amps. That in combination that I do play music at both low and high levels made me feel a seperate right would be beneficial, and that an AVR with room correction (denon 2980ci) could be used as a DAC.....

I'll check back in tonight, and share my thougts about what I heard today with the a5.5 and mac....then I'll decide over the weekend the approach and what not based on input and thoughts....

Thanks for everyones help. Feel free to chime in anytime :)

good receiver is more than enought to power those B&Ws. their Recommended amplifier power is 30watts to 200watts 8ohms. So if you play it really loud and send too much power over 200 you could/will ruin the speakers.