I decided to move this from the 500m/600m official thread to see if I could get everyone's opinion that owns a Kuro (not just my model) and has this same problem. I just received my new 500m from Vanns a few weeks ago and am noticing what I think are vertical/horizontal bands that I have only seen a few times. I am aware of dirty screen as all of my Pioneer plasma's have had it to some degree. Dirty screen is usually only visible when the screen is panning though so it has never been a deal breaker (this is definitely different than dirty screen). I turned my PS3 on last night and noticed what I think is very light vertical banding. The color background on the PS3 was set to dark green (to check this just set your background color to this). That's where I noticed what I think is very very light banding. I think that's what it was because dirty screen is only visible when there is movement on the screen. I do not notice it at all on any other background color or during source material. I did run the home theater setup on the Wall-E blu ray disc and noticed what looks like very very light horizontal lines/bands on the still screens (the white ones with the disney characters that explain each test before you click next to perform them). I don't know if this is a source thing because I don't notice it during viewing (maybe a low resolution screen?). I searched and found other banding reports with the PS3 background colors but I don't know if that is what it is . Many people claim the PS3 backgrounds are not high enough resolution wise so on certain colors it is possible to notice some banding/issues (I don't know how true this is though). I did in fact notice a "layered look" to the metal gear solid 4 wallpaper that you can get for free on the PS Store. The grey background wasn't smooth but had these horizontal layers or bands to it. Again I want to stress that what I am seeing (banding or not) is very light and I don't see it on a blank screen or a completely black screen. Otherwise the set has been perfect. I also get a little bit of ghosting when I bring up the menu (the menu stretches out to the right past it's original location and almost looks like it is banding or ghosting) but I think that's normal (I hope at least). Am I just being to picky? Anyone else seeing this or can test for me?

I can deal with it if it's a Pioneer trait but I want to be sure. I don't remember any of my previous Kuro's having any of these quirks (4280, 5080, 5020).

Thanks!

Are these bands static, always in the same position and size on the screen? If so then it's a form of DSE.

Would this form of DSE make the TV eligible for return?

Are these bands static, always in the same position and size on the screen? If so then it's a form of DSE.


Yes it looks like they are but again you can't see them on every source. It's definitely not interference as I have tried different outlets and unplugged other devices to make sure they were not interferring. Honestly though on the PS3 backgrounds, they look like they are the product of a low resolution image. It doesn't look like tv banding. If you have a PS3, you can try this by downloading the free MGS4 wallpaper on the PS Store and then look for any bands or color layers in the background. The Wall-E setup menu that I mentioned in my first post also shows lines going across but I never seen this when watching a movie or playing a game (and that's with me looking for it). Of course I am obsessing over it now and trying to find it on any source I can think of. I have had vertical and horizontal dirty screen that I could only see when the camera was panning. If I just looked at a still screen though, I could not see any lines or dirty screen. That's why I am puzzled by what I am seeing because this is visible when the screen is not moving. When I noticed the ghosting/banding from bringing up the menu, I thought the issues might be connected with a screen problem.

Would this form of DSE make the TV eligible for return?

If it's DSE, highly doubtful. I had an awful case of DSE on my 4280 but Pioneer stated it was normal. Honestly though this set has less DSE than my previous 5020. I just don't remember seeing these horizontal lines on some sources on my old Kuro's. I also still see very minor vertical banding (still not sure if that is what it is) when I select the dark green background on the PS3. I don't see this vertical banding on other colors or if I am watching a blu ray. I watched a few of the pixar films because they normally bring out DSE or any other issues but I can't spot it.

I had a problem with this on my 360 with my current 9uk panny. Its a 768p plasma so when i changed the res on the 360 to 720p from 1080i it totally cleared the problem. Try changing resolutions until the problem is resolved. You might end up with 720p output over 1080p but its all scaled by the pio.

I had a problem with this on my 360 with my current 9uk panny. Its a 768p plasma so when i changed the res on the 360 to 720p from 1080i it totally cleared the problem. Try changing resolutions until the problem is resolved. You might end up with 720p output over 1080p but its all scaled by the pio.


I tried that last night. I set the PS3 to 720P but you could still see the bands/lines in the background image. I honestly thought that would clear it up to. I think the perplexing thing is that I don't see this while watching blu ray movies. Sure I see a little bit of DSE when the camer pans up or down but it isn't any worse than my 5020 (actually better). I also don't remember seeing this on my old Kuro (Maybe I just wasn't looking for it?). I wasn't able to get a response from a fellow 500m owner in the official thread, but maybe someone will post their findings. Thanks for the response by the way.

Anyone with a 500m/600m (or any other Kuro for that matter) notice any of the issues I have mentioned? It would be great to hear from a fellow 500m owner on this.

UPDATE:
I just played some Assassin's Creed on the 360 and can now see faint horizontal lines in the white backgrounds. They aren't thick lines but very tiny horizontal lines on the screen. They look like they cover the entire screen. Not sure what to think at this point. They aren't completely obvious by any means but again I don't remember my old Kuro's showing this.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Noob questions... :o

What does DSE stand for? Digital something Effect?

"Dirty screen" - exactly what is this? Actual haze of dirt on the inside of the glass, or just an effect that the video processor has trouble processing?

This seems to be a common effect. I get the same thing with my Panny. Its mostly visible with my Xbox 360 which I have connected through via component. It only shows up when the screen goes blank. I can very faintly see it from time to time when I'm viewing 1080i material over the air, but I have to look very hard for it. I think some sets have this effect more than others, but I'm sure most plasmas will give this effect from time to time. I still think LCD banding can be far worse.

This seems to be a common effect. I get the same thing with my Panny. Its mostly visible with my Xbox 360 which I have connected through via component. It only shows up when the screen goes blank. I can very faintly see it from time to time when I'm viewing 1080i material over the air, but I have to look very hard for it. I think some sets have this effect more than others, but I'm sure most plasmas will give this effect from time to time. I still think LCD banding can be far worse.

I am starting to agree. I had a forum member do some tests and he sees the same layer colors on many PS3 backgrounds. I guess that confirms that at least that is normal. I do still notice what I think is slight banding on the dark green background but not on any other ones. There is also the issue where I am seeing very thin and small horizontal lines while playing Assassin's Creed. I only notice them though when I get about a foot from the screen. I don't know what would cause this as I don't see this on every source either. I still haven't had someone confirm the WAll E setup screen issue that I am having to make sure it isn't banding though. I am going to do some more testing tonight and see.

Yes the PS3 background clearly uses only a limited amount of colors so you can see the banding and such there.

If you have to get a foot from your screen to see the thin line, why are you worried about it? That's a pretty clear sign that you're going to make yourself unhappy with anything when you examine it in that manner. They simply aren't meant to be viewed from 1 foot.

Yes the PS3 background clearly uses only a limited amount of colors so you can see the banding and such there.

If you have to get a foot from your screen to see the thin line, why are you worried about it? That's a pretty clear sign that you're going to make yourself unhappy with anything when you examine it in that manner. They simply aren't meant to be viewed from 1 foot.

Very true and honestly a good point. It's just something I didn't notice on my old 5020 (or other Kuro's I have owned for that matter) so I got worried that I was having issues. I think when I started noticing a little line bleeding/ghosting when I brought up the tv menu, I got concerned. Then I started looking for other possible problems and probably looked a little to hard :). When I pulled up the white screen on the Wall E setup though I got really concerned (especially with the banding at the top of the screen). Again like you mentioned about the PS3 backgrounds, it probably was a limited or low resolution image which would explain that.

Very true and honestly a good point. It's just something I didn't notice on my old 5020 (or other Kuro's I have owned for that matter) so I got worried that I was having issues. I think when I started noticing a little line bleeding/ghosting when I brought up the tv menu, I got concerned. Then I started looking for other possible problems and probably looked a little to hard :). When I pulled up the white screen on the Wall E setup though I got really concerned (especially with the banding at the top of the screen). Again like you mentioned about the PS3 backgrounds, it probably was a limited or low resolution image which would explain that.

I see this on my Panny when bringing up the user menu. With the PS3, I can also see it, but it is very very faint when on 1080i. With 1080p I cannot see it at all. I think it has something to do with 1080i source.

Very true and honestly a good point. It's just something I didn't notice on my old 5020 (or other Kuro's I have owned for that matter) so I got worried that I was having issues. I think when I started noticing a little line bleeding/ghosting when I brought up the tv menu, I got concerned. Then I started looking for other possible problems and probably looked a little to hard :). When I pulled up the white screen on the Wall E setup though I got really concerned (especially with the banding at the top of the screen). Again like you mentioned about the PS3 backgrounds, it probably was a limited or low resolution image which would explain that.

Have you checked to make sure this is not IR? I am sure you have already, but just in case

I just got my 600m last week and this is by far the best TV I have owned. It is pretty much flawless except I too have the horizontal bands or DSE. I have no buzz and no dead pixels so I thought I had the perfect set. You can only see them during panning shots. They are there during a bright scenes as well but just barely noticeable. They are not uniform and some thicker than others but overall very faint and once you see them you basically can throw watching TV out the window as that is all I look at now. (Do any of us even watch the TV anymore? LOL)

Anyway reading some of the threads some say this will go away over time while some say it won't.

This thread seemed to die 5 months back so have any of you seen any improvement?

Thanks -