putting together my 2 channel dream system with speakers and components and all it tallies up to be a cool $15g

my only problem is it would be setup in my family room which has vaulted ceilings, hard wood floors, marble fireplace, open back wall, my speakers would be placed flush up against the front wall (NO other way i could set them up) etc...

i CANNOT put acoustics treatments aka wife factor.
nor can i add carpet or drapes which i already have.

my question is should i scale back my dream system since my room acoustics are far from ideal.

my thinking is any sound improvements i would get from a higher $$ system would be negated because of poor acoustics.

should i settle for something a little more modest?

Those room descriptions are not determinant factor for bad room acoustics. Did you perform any measurments?
Also re WAF, have you discussed placing absorbers panel with art work on the front. They are becoming popular and can look good.
Between, I used to own a 15K audio rig and it sounded like crap in my room without treatment. Yet It sounded great in another non treated room.....So you better do some measurements first.

Not sure if this true or not, but it seems to me some speakers are more room friendly than others.
So also you may find that one speaker you prefer in a good room, in a less benign room a different speaker may sound better, not just down to speaker placement and room boundaries.

I have noticed that if there is a characteristic in a speaker I do not like, no matter how good or bad the room is that niggle is always present.
So while room treatment can be essential, it will not remove speaker characteristics that may annoy you.

That all said, I have found one speaker that was impressive in a well treated room and also in a terrible room (done deliberately) with no treatment.
This means there is no easy way to choose such equipment without listening to them in a poor and good room, or a room with similar boundaries and makeup to yours.

Edit:
Ah I can recommend for electronics to try out Lyngdorf TDAI-2200 with RoomPerfect.
This IMO is a cracking integrated amp that has superb practicallity due to the fact the signal remains in digital domain all the way up to the output stage of the amp (if using CD).
This is great as it can assist with some elements of room issues without multiple conversions of the signal when using RoomPerfect (think of the external Audyssey box but without all the conversions that has to do), and has great flexibility of setting up crossover for subwoofers, including order and type used.
Also to me the amp is very good with challenging speakers, and pretty close in terms of sound quality to some more expensive manufacturers such as Krell and Chord Electronics.
Overall a very good practical integrated amp if purchased with RoomPerfect.
As a suggestion, if you only use a CD player and no analogue inputs, you can order the amp without an analogue section and this can save quite a bit of money.
Word of warning though, it has no HT bypass so you cannot combine this into a HT setup.

Cheers
DT

With those serious constraints, you may be better off getting a dream headphone setup instead.

Can you make a room in a basement or garage? If I was going to spend 15 large, that is what I would do. If not, I would go more modest. No one will know the difference except you, and I could think of better things to do with 15 grand the way things are going out here. Like me, I was looking at some new speakers to replace an aging set in my HT. Instead, I moved them around a bit to improve the sound. It worked, they are staying.

The biggest detriment is going to be having your speakers shoved up against the wall.

is there anyone on these boards that has an expensive 2 channel system in an equally poor listening room?

is there anyone on these boards that has an expensive 2 channel system in an equally poor listening room?


Quite likely.

What sort of a reply are you looking for?

The answer to your question seems very clear. Room acoustics are a huge factor in the sound of a system. So, it's almost certain you won't be getting top performance from any system, regardless of cost, without acoustic treatments.

Does it pay to spend $15g on a rig in a room with poor acoustics? Only you can decide, but I reckon it's done more often than not.

is there anyone on these boards that has an expensive 2 channel system in an equally poor listening room?

As I said, I have heard expensive system in a poor room and it was stunning, the caveat though is that it seems to me the speaker needs to be benign in how it can be placed and the presentation it provides in a tough room.
In this case the speakers had down firing ports, and were not floorstanding but still with excellent controlled bass (still a 3-way design and large for standmounts).
I have also heard expensive speakers that would be a nightmare in the same room.

So the 1st challenge is identifying speakers you like that work well in sub-optimal rooms, and then add the electronics such as the Lyngdorf that enables room correction and flexibility to put a seperate subwoofer anywhere (meaning not necessarily near the speakers) with flexibile configuration (crossover settings). it also helps that the amp is good with any speakers, easy or tough ones to drive/control by the amp, which is another reason I can recommend the Lyngdorf.

Hope this helps.
Cheers
DT

Lot's of variables that need to be addressed. Are you working with a dealer or are you doing this by the seat of the pants?

If you're working with a dealer, can you do in home trials?

The guy in the previous post who mentioned all of the hidden acoustic treatments is spot on. There are a lot of things you can do that are relatively inconspicuous.

My advice would be to find a local dealer with a decent level of two channel experience who's willing to work with you. There may be a slight price premium to pay there but it could be offset by what you save in time and aggravation. T & E can be costly and even frustrating but some audiophiles I know enjoy this masochistic procedure....in fact I think they actually live for it.

I don't know your specific situation but it may even pay to explore ways to get your wife involved in the process (don't laugh).

Done tastefully, you may be able to get what you want, she get's some nice decorating upfits, and you both enjoy the result. Just make sure she thinks it was her idea.

...should i settle for something a little more modest?

Yes.

Headphones are a good idea.

I would ask if you have any rooms not used within your home to begin with? If your family room is like most, the fine audio setup would get second chair to the TV. A small additional bedroom or study would be the way to go for listening and to get away from the other distractions around the house.

is there anyone on these boards that has an expensive 2 channel system in an equally poor listening room?

Of course there are...LOTS of people waste tons of money on audio and ignore the room.

Have you ever seen the uber +$500K system shown on audiogon? $30K Cable lifters, $10K power cables. $200K speakers and CRAPPY ROOM ;)

putting together my 2 channel dream system with speakers and components and all it tallies up to be a cool $15g

My other point is that I hope you spend $12K on speakers and $3K on electronics....or you didnt really do your dream justice ;)

I would ask if you have any rooms not used within your home to begin with? If your family room is like most, the fine audio setup would get second chair to the TV. A small additional bedroom or study would be the way to go for listening and to get away from the other distractions around the house.

Now that makes sense.

thanks for the guidance.

Those room descriptions are not determinant factor for bad room acoustics. Did you perform any measurments?

+1. A way to get an idea, without measuring, is to simply make a lot of noise in there and listen. Shout, sing, clap, bang some pots and pans. This will give you an idea for sure.

Also re WAF, have you discussed placing absorbers panel with art work on the front. They are becoming popular and can look good.
Between, I used to own a 15K audio rig and it sounded like crap in my room without treatment. Yet It sounded great in another non treated room.....So you better do some measurements first.

+1. I recently tried a dedicated room, a spare BR, and it was horrendous, even after 300 lbs of treatments. It's now in the LR with half the amount of treatments (nearly all on one single wall), and even with hard floors instead of the carpet in the BR is it so much better. Far from ideal, very far, but much better, and at least enjoyable!

The biggest detriment is going to be having your speakers shoved up against the wall.

+1. As for untreated sidewalls, you will want speakers that have very good offaxis response (similar to polar response). I think of BW high end.

Back to the idea of WAF friendly treatments, I've posted these pics on a couple of occasions. This is Glenn Kuras of GIK:

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd269/glennkuras/100_2949.jpg

What are the room dimensions? Using these i can give you an estimate of the problem frequencies you'll encounter.

my only problem is it would be setup in my family room which has vaulted ceilings, hard wood floors, marble fireplace, open back wall, my speakers would be placed flush up against the front wall (NO other way i could set them up) etc...


You do not want to place arbitrary speakers against the front wall. Think singers with chest colds. Think Bose-like frequency response.

Wave guides may work well. In-wall designs will work great - they have no diffraction and can be 3-5dB more efficient than comparable free standing speakers.

How symmetric is the area you have to work with? If your seating position is asymetric you need speakers with decent directivity to work around it.

No rear wall works great.

What restrictions do you have on your seating location? You need directivity or to be seated near the speakers. Just far enough for the drivers to integrate works great.



i CANNOT put acoustics treatments aka wife factor.
nor can i add carpet or drapes which i already have.


I moved into a place with hardwood floors and large glass windows. I sit 4' in front of an open hallway. It's untreated apart from a day bed and two area rugs. It's awesome. I just need to move the CD player to someplace within remote control range that's not atop the opposite couch.

I hope you don't put this dream on the back burner because of the obstacles you're facing. Most people have a dream like this but don't have the money to spend.