Im selling my 60inch pioneer kuro for SIZE. I love the picture on the set and would like to recreate it on a bigger screen. If they sold a 100 inch that was reasonably priced I wouldnt be writing this. So now the only viable option is a projector. At first glance you think "I can have a 100 inch screen and a 1080p image for the same price that I paid for my 60 inch tv? Why isnt everyone doing this? Why even bother with a tv? Why arent these marketed more?" Then after doing more research things start to make sense. And this is just from limited research and absolutely no personal findings.
The more I read in the owners forums it seems that there are more unhappy than happy customers. Maybe its just the nature of forums. But if you look in the Kuro forum, you will find 5000 happy and a few unhappy. Electronics break, I get it. Ive read cases (alot more than I can remember) of owners projectors (electronics not bulbs) going bad in under a years time. And during that time you have to constantly worry about things like dust blobs...not with DLP though i know. Why go through all the hassle? If plasmas came in 100 inch for 3k would you buy that instead?
Im not trying to be condescending, as Im going to be buying a projector regardless. But after research it seems safer to play Russian Roulette.
It seems like the two top contenders under 3k are the Epson 6500 and the Panasonic 3000. Im looking for the kuro plasma-like image. Deep blacks and accurate color without being blown out and unrealistic like lcd tvs. I hate how lcd tvs look and want to avoid that look at all cost. My room is a light controlled, red walled, 11 wide by 16 long 7 foot high ceilings space. I have room for a 100 inch screen MAXIMUM. Sitting 8.5 feet back from a 100 inch may be overkill, but who knows. Im in it for 95% film and 5% games.

So...Which projector has 5 bullets in the chamber and which has 4? Which is best for a kuro plasma-like sharpness and black level? I know its all subjective and everyones going to have their own opinion but im hoping to gain some insight. Thanks.

I'll give you a reply, but it's all IMHO and I'm sure there will be plenty on here that will disagree too:

You won't get Kuro like blacks from a projector for $3k period (and I'm in the UK so I'm making an assumption that you get more for your money than we do). Maybe if you wait until some lazer/LED technology comes out and then drops in price, but who could say how long that would take?

Replacing a TV with a projector may lead to dissapointment as watching everything on that big screen will show up every anomaly with poorer sources like SD TV for example. It will probably stop feeling 'special' watching on a large screen as you become used to it too. Also you may find out if you try to sell your Kuro, people are quite greedy and will expect you to sell it for peanuts (purely on the basis that it is secondhand) judging by others that I've seen for sale, admittedly on the UK forums though. I'd recommend you keep the Kuro for day to day TV and get a projector for watching movies or maybe special sporting events.

You say your walls are dark red, so at least you have a start to providing a good viewing room for a projector. However reducing reflections is really critical if you are attempting to get a projector to approach anything like a Kuro in terms of picture quality. Even if you uped the budget to include something like a JVC HD750 or one of the Plannar PJs, you might still need to go darker on the walls and especially the ceiling, maybe even using fabric, or ideally black velvet material. You see that going this route means being quite hardcore. It's not that you can't have a projector in a light coloured room or even have ambient light, but it will never look anything like a Kuro if you do. In fact it may still not look like a Kuro because a projected image has a different feel to watching a direct view TV.

Projectors are more of a niche product than even Kuro TVs, so I think these forums attract the kind of people who will obsess about tiny details. I believe this is why you'll find a lot of negative comments on here, though some do seem justified (like dust blobs on certain models) there will also be people who haven't been effected by a particular issue either. By all means read up what you can, but accept that you will have to make a choice at some point and equally important is to actually demo any shortlisted projectors as you may find you are effected by rainbow effect/motion blur/SAH/poor blacks (delete as appropriate :)). Noting your comments about not liking LCD TVs, you should be aware that there are similar variances in picture quality betweeon DLP/LCD/D-ILA/CRT projectors.

I know I probably didn't answer you original question, but I hope it helps.

I personally think you can get close to your Kuro performance if not better. I have'nt owned the Kuro but I have reviewed a few of them outside of stores via friends ownership, etc. With that said if it's the black level of a Kuro you want, I think JVC/Pio Elite projector would get you close but with a much larger image size. The best being the JVC RS20 followed by the RS10 and Pio FPJ1. You mention 3k budget, so consider the RS10 as I just bought one and feel it's a great PJ. If you can stretch it, the RS20 should keep you happy for a very long time. I'm sure others will throw much better answers your way, but worth a thought to say the least. GL on your quest.

I found when TV shopping once I purchased the Pio Pro Elite my search and obsession was over. Come home, hang it on the wall and enjoy the great 50" picture.

The PJ crowd, me included, I think are a bit more of perfectionist type crowd. You can get so much out of a PJ system depending on what you do to the room, lighting, screen, etc. There is just more to consider with the PJ setup than a TV. I even stepped down a bit from from Pio Pro Elite plasma to a Panny pt ax 200u and loved the PJ. Now, typical of the PJ crowd, I sold the Panny and will be purchasing the Epson 6500UB to go with my 126" Carada screen. My room is not the perfect theater setup because of the ambient light but there is nothing that will compare to a 126" image. You are totally immersed in the game, show, movie, concert, etc. I don't watch the 5 o'clock news of the PJ but HDTV, DVD's, etc look amazing on a PJ.

I think you hear so much negativity on the PJ forums because people are always tweaking the system and constantly looking ahead to the next years technology. Like I said, my plasma is 4 years old and once I hung it on the wall and started watching it I was done with the obsession. Now in the PJ realm I am on this site several times a day and always thinking ahead....despite the fact my current system was "perfect" to me. Gimme 6 months with the 6500 and I'll be ready to upgrade.....for no reason.

--JK

First off, the Kuro is relatively new (and being phased out). Reliability is unknown at this time.

Secondly, projectors have about the same amount of failure on a whole (sans lamp replacement). Things like dust blobs may or may not be an issue.

But, to answer your question...in the under $3k category it will be hard to find something that looks as good on a 100" screen as the Kuro on a 60". First off, you have to make sure you have the room for it. FP works best with a dedicated room...not a standard living room (though it can work there, I am stricly referring to how it works BEST). Secondly, front projection is generally more expensive, but WAY less than buying an equivalent sized plasma/LCD.

Have you seen any of the current projectors setup? Many are quite good. I tend to second Kevin...if you can, keep the plasma and add the projector. Then you have the best of both worlds.

I agree with Jason. Keep the Kuro. I got into projectors 6 years ago, and ended up with just a PJ in the living room, and my 61" TV in my bedroom. It seemed great at the time, but having a single purpose living room also has social disadvantages.

Now I turned my daughter's old bedroom into a fully blacked-out dedicated theatre room, and my living room is light and open like it should be (with a 65" flat panel). ;)

I'm not discouraging you from buying a PJ, just keep the Kuro for regular viewing.

Art

Don't get me wrong, there are projectors that will absolutely kill the Kuro, but not in the sub $3k range and again, they still require the proper setup.

Well even though I'm very new to FP I can probably give you somewhat of an idea of what to expect as I currenly have a Pioneer 6020 and a Pioneer FPJ1 projector and a 100" elite screen.

I've considered FP in the past but PQ was my #1 factor and the setups that I was able to view were limited and nothing impressed me. Last year my friend got a 1080UB and a 92" screen and the picture was much better than I had thought but the black levels didn't quite do it for me(at least in his setup). However, a few months later I looked more for places to demo and I found an RS20 and it impressed me enough to make me make the jump(although I still preferred my plasma for overall PQ). So back in March I bought a Pioneer projectors(rebadged JVC RS2) on clearance for an incredible price! :D

Here's my observations comparing the two in my setup using an Elitescreen in Cinewhite 1.1 gain.

- Absolute black levels on an all black screen are lower on my front projection (helps in fade to black scenes but light reflections affect actual scenes with content and currently I'm only in the 100 hour range on my bulb and I only have about a 9.5' throw distance).

- Black bars do not disappear (in my setup) like they do on the Kuro. However, I have a drop down screen and I set my height to completely elimate black bars thus they are blacker than the Kuro ;).

- Contrast is not as good as the Kuro (which I believe is due to plasmas being brighter/much higher ANSI). However, the contrast is still really good and will look Kuro'ish albeit with colors not being as bright/bold(but still saturated well).

- The LCOS projectors do have motion blur and judder is more noticeable than on my Kuro(judder issue is likely because the screen is so large). For something like games, the blur is distracting but not bad on movies.

- BULB life! If you watch your TV 4-5 hours per day you are going to have to plan on replacing a bulb once per year (or more) thus increasing the cost of front projection.

Having said that the Kuro still delivers a better picture but in a MUCH smaller package. My room has a dark decor (but light colored carpet) so a better setup would likely help to some extent. This higher brightness of the Kuro (I'm using D-Nice's settings and still much brighter) is one of the big differences and also what make the black levels look deeper on the Kuro. If I replaced my screen with a Da-Lite HP screen I'd get the brightness back but at the cost of lower black levels.

But I do have to say that after I've had my setup for just a week and even though the picture is better on my Kuro that I'd never go back to it for movies. A year ago you couldn't convince me but even with the shortcoming of front projection it still can deliver a great picture and the impact on movies will never be the same on a 60" TV. :)

Also, others will have to comment but if you are looking for Kuro type black levels I'm not sure if the Panasonic (or maybe even the 6500UB) will suffice.

...I'm not discouraging you from buying a PJ, just keep the Kuro for regular viewing.

Art

I agree.

I agree with a lot of the sentiments here.

I own an RS20 and a Kuro 60".

Inch for inch, the Kuro is better, primarily because the Kuro keeps its amazing picture with the lights on.

Overall, the RS20 kills the Kuro.

I use the Kuro for daylight viewing. But, when I want to watch a movie, I don't ever want to watch it on anything other than the RS20.

I found when TV shopping once I purchased the Pio Pro Elite my search and obsession was over. Come home, hang it on the wall and enjoy the great 50" picture.

The PJ crowd, me included, I think are a bit more of perfectionist type crowd.
--JK

I was the same with my TV and it's 'only' an LCD that doesn't do 24p (but I had a PJ already when I bought it and I don't watch BluRays on anything that small anyway ;)). I couldn't watch on my PJ and just switch off from the 'analysing' side until I got my HD350. I still had to improve my room a bit to get the most out of it (my patent pending 'Bat Tent' helps) and I could still redecorate the walls a deeper colour at some point. However I've got to a level where I know what a better PJ (HD750 in fact) looks like in my room, but I'm happy to stick with the HD350 and just enjoy the image. I've kind of run out of a reason to come on these forums lately (though I still do out of habit and to 'preach' about including the room in a PJ setup :D) now I'm not looking for the 'next big thing'. Who knows, maybe you'll be like me and happy with a HD350 (RS10), though I'm sure it doesn't quite match a Kuro and certainly not in terms of ANSI contrast. :eek:

Also, others will have to comment but if you are looking for Kuro type black levels I'm not sure if the Panasonic (or maybe even the 6500UB) will suffice.

Can't speak for the 6500UB as I've not seen one, but I sold my AE3000 due to dissapointing dark scene performance, which seems to be a requirement of the OP. I will say however that a fade to black even on my HD350 (probably less than 15,000:1 on/off CR in real world allowing for manufacturer's 'boosted' figures) is far more dramatic than on a TV due to the size and the fact that I watch the PJ in the dark and the TV with lights on. So even a poorer CR on a PJ might seem more involving.

Seriously, you need to demo.....I'm already a convert; I hardly even bother to look at TVs in the shops these days as they're just too small and I'm happy enough with the one I have now for day to day (mostly rubbish) TV.

So it seems the answer is no, you cannot win at the 3k price point. How do local theater projectors compare to the ones i mentioned? I never evaluate black levels or contrast when im in a theater because im so wowed by the screen size and sound that I just dont seem to notice or care. Im sure the novelty of the big screen size will wear off and ill be drawn more to the performance issues. So at 3k it seems pointless to spend the money and it seems that im limited to weekly trips to the local cinema to keep the "wow" factor alive.

So it seems the answer is no, you cannot win at the 3k price point. How do local theater projectors compare to the ones i mentioned? I never evaluate black levels or contrast when im in a theater because im so wowed by the screen size and sound that I just dont seem to notice or care. Im sure the novelty of the big screen size will wear off and ill be drawn more to the performance issues. So at 3k it seems pointless to spend the money and it seems that im limited to weekly trips to the local cinema to keep the "wow" factor alive.

I would not go that far. I have seen Marantz VP4001 PJs going for less the $500 on epay--a whole lot of picture for next to nothing.

My wife and I went to see Star Trek today--Big picture, but it looked like crap--washed out, motion blur, crappy contrast and weak blacks. My FPJ1 looks much better (less then your price point), as did my VP4001 (much less then your price point.)

Just my opinion....

Where did you find that pioneer for less than 3k? That seems like a steal.

I remember going to the cinema when I had my original AE1000, thinking how poor the cinema looked and it made me realise I'd already exceeded the image quality they had. It did'nt stop me upgrading though. ;) I'd never really noticed the image quality at the cinema until I had my own projector, so maybe I've got choosy as time has gone on. :D

Where did you find that pioneer for less than 3k? That seems like a steal.


I have one too.
They were available a few months ago for mid to upper 2000 range as pioneer was dumping them to get out of the display business. Don't think they are around any more. Maybe try ebay or videogon

So it seems the answer is no, you cannot win at the 3k price point.

I'd say the answer is easily "Yes."

I'm a long time flat panel enthusiast and I love the Pioneer Kuro. But if you are looking for a more cinematic, immersive experience, even a cheaper projector will do that over the Kuro.

Everything on a decent projector is like seeing it new, I find, vs a regular "TV." (And now flat panels, while they used to seem big compared to our old CRTs, are regular TVs).

The projector forums are bursting with people who have either seen plenty of flat panels, or more often who own plasmas/LCDs, but who much prefer viewing movies on their projector, whether you are in the "above $3,000 or below $3,000" forum. Must be a reason.

For me the reason never clicked until I borrowed a projector. I was actually using the projector to project a 65" diagonal picture on my wall, because I was going to buy the 65" Panasonic plasma. I wanted to see how big it would look in my room, test out seating etc. But then I zoomed the picture much bigger on my wall and was blown away at the impact it had on watching movies (and sports). Once I experienced an image size that big in my home there was no going back. That's how the projector bug can bite you - I was dead set on a newer, bigger plasma than the one I had and lusted after various flat panels. Now when I go into the stores I just can't get too excited about them.

One example I like to use is movies I love, like the original Alien. I saw it in the theater many times when it first came out and subsequently it's only been available on video/dvd. Viewing it all these years on CRTs and then plasmas diminished movies like Alien. All the models were reduced to "model sized" images, so they looked so much less impressive. Vivid, yes, on a good flat panel, but vivid little objects. When I projected Alien huge on my wall, for the first time since I saw it in the theater the movie took on that epic scope and feel, and brought back the feelings I had watching it in the theater. The landscapes and models now looked HUGE, as they should, and the whole experience was more convincing, as it was intended.

And I can't believe the image on my JVC RS20 projector. Mindblowing. But I've seen truly fantastic images on lower cost projectors as well.

FP's aren't mass marketed like Plasma and LCD because they have a much more limited viewing enviroment for them to look proper, and how many people want a 100" screen hanging in their living room?

Personally, I don't care how stunning a 60" picture can look, it is much too small now that I'm used to 106". Watching a film on a screen that small would be torture now, even if the picture was better. My projector is the Epson 1080UB, and it's blacks are not Kuro black, but the color accuracy, good blacks, and size more than make up for it. Granted you need a completely dark room to get the max benefit from a projector. Size matters. :)

For my living room, I would definately go Plasma or LCD though, and probably not more than 46"-50" for fear of dominating the room with the TV (and my living room is 16'Wx22'Lx10'H ceiling) My theater room is 18'w X 22'l x 8.5' H and that is where the 106" screen is (basement)

For what it's worth, most people are blown away with the picture my projector puts out. The size of the picture, color accuracy, and sharpness of 1080P Blu-ray really surprises them (in a good way)

Dan

Depends on what you mean by Win. All PJs at all price points don't exactly win at everything (features)... You can do very, very well these days for 3K. Much better than just 2 years ago!

So it seems the answer is no, you cannot win at the 3k price point. How do local theater projectors compare to the ones i mentioned?

It's going to depend on what attributes you're talking about, but likely what you see in the theater will not be nearly as good as a decent 1080p FP. Especially if you're like most of us and have crappily-maintained film theaters. DCinema (DLP theaters) are closer, but due to the environment, that can't touch a good HT projector on On/Off CR, or black level.

So at 3k it seems pointless to spend the money and it seems that im limited to weekly trips to the local cinema to keep the "wow" factor alive.

I don't think you'll find many that agree with you here. Just go look at the under 3K forum, ton's of happy people there. If your budget is ~$3k, things are trickier on the forum, because (as I'm guessing you figured out) the projectors that fit that budget all have MSRPs over $3k, sometimes well over.

I would look for a used RS1. I have an RS20 and a 50" Kuro and prefer the RS20. The Kuro has amazing pic quality, but 50" is just too small for movie watching.

My 1080UB looks way better than any film I've seen in the Cinema's in the last few years. (film or DLP included)

DAn

So it seems the answer is no, you cannot win at the 3k price point...I never evaluate black levels or contrast when im in a theater because im so wowed by the screen size and sound that I just dont seem to notice or care. Im sure the novelty of the big screen size will wear off and ill be drawn more to the performance issues. So at 3k it seems pointless to spend the money and it seems that im limited to weekly trips to the local cinema to keep the "wow" factor alive.

I can tell you that I'm probably as picky as most here on this board when it comes to wanting a beautiful image. Maybe not so picky that I start looking for dead pixels or putting my nose to the screen and looking for IR or anything but very picky about black levels and a nice vivid picture.

I never would have thought I would have liked a projector setup because of how picky I am but regardless I now find movie watching much more enjoyable. I'm already noticing flaws with such things as motion blur, the picture isn't as bright and punchy as my Kuro, etc however I still am very much enjoying movie watching much moreso than on my plasma despite the shortcomings.

I was fortunate enough to pickup my Pioneer projector and motorized screen for not much more than $3k, however you might want to look at something like the 6500UB. If you enjoy the movie theater then you'll be able to overlook the flaws as I can tell you personally that I've been so picky that I'm the type who's constantly seeing flaws in the movie theater. And the last movie I saw in the theater I told my wife that my setup at home looks so much better than the theater and she readily agreed rather that telling me to shut up and watch the movie. ;)

I remember going to the cinema when I had my original AE1000, thinking how poor the cinema looked and it made me realise I'd already exceeded the image quality they had. It did'nt stop me upgrading though. ;) I'd never really noticed the image quality at the cinema until I had my own projector, so maybe I've got choosy as time has gone on. :D


Totally agree! I thought commercial theaters had such a great picture until I got my own PJ. I went to watch Fast And The Furious last month and it was horrible. Picture definately was not as nice as some of the HT I have seen and in my opinion my FPJ1 was a hole lot better. While watching fast and the furious at the commercial theater there was a green line alway down the right side of the of the screen. it was really annoying! I wanted to ask for my money back and go home but I was with friends so I stayed.

Only thing I think commercial theaters have over a home theater is screen size. Even though you can get a great experience with a 100+ inche screen I still love the huge screen of a commercial theater.

Just me opinion...:)

I just hope the novelty of a big screen in your house doesnt wear off as quickly as it did when I went from a 27inch tube tv to my first 50 inch set. The first week I just sat there amazed by the size and called over neighbors to come look at the set. A few weeks later the novelty wore off and I began questioning the picture quality. 6500ub vs panasonic 3000. 8.5 feet away from a 100 inch screen. The projector can be from 9-13 feet from the screen. Maybe a 2:35 screen would be best for my use and limited wall space.

I just hope the novelty of a big screen in your house doesnt wear off as quickly as it did when I went from a 27inch tube tv to my first 50 inch set. The first week I just sat there amazed by the size and called over neighbors to come look at the set. A few weeks later the novelty wore off and I began questioning the picture quality. 6500ub vs panasonic 3000. 8.5 feet away from a 100 inch screen. The projector can be from 9-13 feet from the screen. Maybe a 2:35 screen would be best for my use and limited wall space.

That why you should keep the Kuro for basic tv viewing and only use the projector for movies. Im sure if your watching tv,movies,sports etc.. all on your projector eventually 100 inch probably wont seem to big to you and you'll want to go bigger. I remember when I went from a 22 tube tv to my 42 inch plasma and it seemed like a huge difference and I was satisfied but now I have a PJ that can throw a 110+ image and 42 inches seems so small! So Im keeping the plasma downstairs for daily tv viewing and the PJ upstairs for movie night!

I dont think you will be dissapointed if you get a projector. But thats my opinion..;)

Ive pretty much decided on a JVC rs10 and a 2:35 carada screen. I dont feel like dealing with dust blob worries. If I can just find a good online retailer for the jvc.

I think if one specifically wants to match the Kuro in look, that is hard. If however you are looking for a more involving experience, especially with movies, then you really could turn the question around as to "Can a Kuro perform as well as a front projection?". Just depends on how it is looked at.

Well put Jason!

notoriousmatty, as others have mentioned, I would think that if you use a projector to view absolutely everything - all your TV watching - a certain amount of the novelty could wear off. That's a major reason why I would only watch movies, and some HD event stuff (like some sports events) on my projector and keep all other viewing to my plasma. I like to make movie watching feel special.

That said, I've rarely seen anyone tire of their front projection set up, even those who like using it for viewing most of their content.

Grazzi! Sometimes my brain works! (Although odd on a Monday that it is...). :D

For me the novelty has not worn off. I set up my home theater about a year ago, with a vw 60, 100 inch screen etc. I watch all material on the big screen and do ALOT of gaming as well. I made sure that I did my research and went into it full on, dedicatd room with very dark walls and painted ceiling, lots of blue velvet and a built raised stage to hide all componets. The result is amazing. Completly black with the lights off.... But I did spent well over 3K on everything combined. Well worth it and I have never questioned my choice. I love it everyday.

Epson Pro Cinema 1080p UB. This will be the closest to the Kuro (closest to 3k that is). Really. It retails for 4k, but can be found for 3k from reputable sources.

We got our first (and only) HDTV in 1999, before there was much HDTV broadcasting. We used to watch CBS mostly because the had the most HDTV content.
I have been following HDTV developments since then and have tried to keep pace with the technology. Because our set is so old, I have been particularly interested in new models. Also, our youngest kid is off to college this fall so we had a game room that was available.
We turned the game room into our HT and so far have loved it (3 weeks). We have the Epson 6500 UB and are continually amazed by the picture quality. We are projecting on a 118" Carada BW screen. The PJ is completely quiet even with the auto iris working on high lamp setting, and suffers from none of the issues that I have read about (defocusing, dust, etc).

Something to keep in mind, is that we spent a whole lot more on the HT than just the cost of the PJ. New surround sound, and furniture will run you budget up quickly. We planned for all of this, but it can be much more than just the PJ. So far, we are completely satisfied and I'm quite frugal so a big expense has to be justified to me.

Well put Jason!

notoriousmatty, as others have mentioned, I would think that if you use a projector to view absolutely everything - all your TV watching - a certain amount of the novelty could wear off. That's a major reason why I would only watch movies, and some HD event stuff (like some sports events) on my projector and keep all other viewing to my plasma. I like to make movie watching feel special.

That said, I've rarely seen anyone tire of their front projection set up, even those who like using it for viewing most of their content.


The novelty has not worn off for us. Our AE3000 went up on Oct 31st (almost 7 months ago) and we've put about 875-900 hours on the projector since (I've already purchased a spare bulb). We watch TV, play video games, watch movies and I just recently set up a new HTPC. With all the time and effort we put into building our theater, we want all of our uses of the space to be special.. not just movies. :D

Zooming out to fill the 2.37:1 screen with a Bluray movie... that's just EXTRA special. :)

Our old 44" HDTV is in the bedroom and maybe gets 2-3 hours of use per week at the very most.

For me the novelty has definitely not worn off. Although I came from a small Sony 41" RPTV I've seen enough larger LCD and plasma TVs at brick and mortar stores to convince me I made the correct decision. My 92" screen with either the Mitsubishi HC3000U (thanks, Jason) and Marantz VP15S1 compels me never to go back to a TV.

I have had my theater a couple of years now, and it is my favorite thing period. My wife and I are total movie buffs.

Ive pretty much decided on a RS10 though If I can find a rs1 much cheaper I may go with that. i want to avoid 3lcd because I dont want to have to deal with dust blobs. What its down to now is a 2:35 screen or just a regular. Ill keep my panasonic plasma I have (5085u) and sell my pio because Im not gonna take a 3k hit on a everyday viewing tv. Im going to go with Carada for the screen. As soon as I can unload my pio ill be a new owner of a jvc projector.:D

Get the 350 if you've got desires/plans for CIH. The 350 has (AFAIK) all the scaling modes necessary to support CIH with a lens where the RS1 doesn't.

Bump

Im looking at rs1's because I can literally save 1500 bucks this way and the picture quality is close enough to the rs10. It will be my first projector so I think ill be pretty happy. There are alot for sale on videogon.

I remember the first movie I ever saw - a showing of Li'l Abner on a second (or third) run movie screen. I might as well have been a cave man being shown fire for the first time. I was in awe! I also remember seeing a movie on a big TV screen for the first time. It was a 50" RCA front projector (the kind with the flip down mirror and curved silver screen) from a VHS tape. I remember thinking, this is the "missing link" between TV and the movies.

I wanted a projector at home, but regular TV always showed up every flaw of regular television images. I wanted to try to recapture the feeling I had when I was young and saw that first movie - to experience that sense of immersion in the movie at home that had me going to the theater 3-4 times a week. I finally got that opportunity about 9 years ago, when I got my first front projector, a Dwin 700 CRT. Since then, I've had 3 DLPs - a Sharp 9000, an Optoma H79 and now a Sharp 20000.

Front projection has never gotten old for me. I'm still in awe every day when I sit down in front of it. The big screen has the ability to grab me and not let go in a way a smaller screen NEVER can. When people talk about getting a 42" or even 52" HDTV so it won't be too big for their room, I understand that sentiment, but they are going to miss out on an experience that can only be duplicated in a great movie theater. Front projection gives you that in your own home. And today the experience of going to the movies is always a disappointment. Even the recent Imax showings of Monsters vs. Alens and Star Trek I went to were disappointing in that the films were marred by blobs and hairs and spots. The screen I have in my living room exceeds anything I've seen in movie theaters for years.

I just hope the novelty of a big screen in your house doesnt wear off

Has the novelty of a big screen in a movie theater worn off? Probably not. That's the same experience you'll have in your home. I'm about 6 months into the front-projection game, and I still have to pinch myself everytime I fire-up a blu ray -- it's just an absolute thrill. The sheer size of the image trumps any other visual shortcomings a front projector may have. This is something a standard TV just can't match.

My wife and I went to see Star Trek today--Big picture, but it looked like crap

Same experience. The new STAR TREK blu ray has the HD trailer for the Abrams movie, and it looks a helluva lot better on my panny 3000 than it did in the theater!

"I agree with a lot of the sentiments here.

I own an RS20 and a Kuro 60".

Inch for inch, the Kuro is better, primarily because the Kuro keeps its amazing picture with the lights on.

Overall, the RS20 kills the Kuro.

I use the Kuro for daylight viewing. But, when I want to watch a movie, I don't ever want to watch it on anything other than the RS20."




Quick question(s) here.
Which generation Kuro do you have. (Mine is the 150fd).
And I am thinking of three possible upgrades.
Trade the 150fd up to a 151fd (I'll blow my brains out on the trade).
Purchase a rs-20 for the night time movie experience.
Purchase a planar 8150 for the night time movie experience.

It has been suggested that if I like plasma perhaps the planar DLP) is the way to go,
unfortunately I live in a remote part of the planet where these comparisons are only available "online".

So back to the quick question...........any thoughts?

best regards... trans

It's funny, because I have about $2000 I could spend to upgrade my Sanyo Z5 to a 1080p projector. I'm not looking because I'm unhappy, I'm just thinking because I'd like 1080p. Anyways, based on this thread, I've decided to do nothing, because it looks like some people can agree on the Z3000, some people can agree on the panasonic, and some people can agree on the 6500, but everyone agrees on the RS10. Therefore, I will stick with what I have until I can afford an RS10, which will probably be around the time the next model is out anyways (november).

I do sound design/editing for movies and tv so I end up in various mixing theaters.
Last week we were watching a mix playback of a show I'm working on, shot in HD.
As is typical for a lot of mixing theaters there are both the projected image on the big screen in front of you and at least one "regular sized" TV image (used to be CRT, sometimes RPTVs, these days typically a flat panel HDTV of some sort).

So I had in front of me the image played back both on a flat panel - fairly close to me - and the very large projected image. It was fun to look back and forth between the two. The flat panel clearly the more vivid image in this case, but nonetheless it was just "watching TV" sized. Whereas the projected image just brought a whole new dimensionality, a whole different take on the experience. It's like you are looking into real-sized sets, like you can inhabit them, rather than just watching TV.

Epson Pro Cinema 1080p UB. This will be the closest to the Kuro (closest to 3k that is)http://www.***************/stubby/097e26b2ffb0339458b55da17425a71f.gif. Really. It retails for 4k, but can be found for 3k from reputable sources.
Yep, Amazon have it for 2799.99$ !!! that's a great deal if you ask me! :):D

Yep, Amazon have it for 2799.99$ !!! that's a great deal if you ask me! :):D

Why would anybody buy the 1080UB (pro or home cinema version) when now the 6500/7500ub are available and are quite a bit better.

For me the novelty has not worn off. I set up my home theater about a year ago, with a vw 60, 100 inch screen etc. I watch all material on the big screen and do ALOT of gaming as well. I made sure that I did my research and went into it full on, dedicatd room with very dark walls and painted ceiling, lots of blue velvet and a built raised stage to hide all componets. The result is amazing. Completly black with the lights off.... But I did spent well over 3K on everything combined. Well worth it and I have never questioned my choice. I love it everyday.

We have the exact same set up except for dedicated room. We use our SONY VPL-VW60 and 100" STEWART Firehawk SST electriscren to watch everything and like Breedbeyond, we are very happy with our set up and have no desire to return to LCD or plasma... way TOO s m a l l.

Sure it will cost you more to do front projection right but beleive us when we say that it will be well worth it once you are done and you will never want to go back. For fun, look at some of the "show us your screen shots threads. Look at some of the photo examples there and then imagine those images taking up nearly an ENTIRE WALL in your home. That my friend is the wonder of front projection.

To beat a dead horse, I really feel sorry for a lot of people who have yet to have that "Ahhhh-haaaa" moment about front projection. It's that point in time when you are sitting in front of a great home theater front projection system and realize that there simply is no other choice - you MUST have one for yourself. Don't misunderstand - I know there are people who will be happy forever with a smaller screen. That's fine. The people I feel sorry for are those who would love a front projector but who, for whatever reason, haven't realized that with a little imagination and effort it actually could be theirs. I think there are a lot of people buying LCDs and plasmas every day who will come to that realization a few weeks or months after the novelty has worn off their 42" or 52" or even 65" flat panels. I go out of my way not to rain on the parade of friends who've made the jump to HD with a 42" or 52" screen, but if I can, I always suggest front projection for anyone who has the space/budget/inclination to do it.

To beat a dead horse, I really feel sorry for a lot of people who have yet to have that "Ahhhh-haaaa" moment about front projection. It's that point in time when you are sitting in front of a great home theater front projection system and realize that there simply is no other choice - you MUST have one for yourself. Don't misunderstand - I know there are people who will be happy forever with a smaller screen. That's fine. The people I feel sorry for are those who would love a front projector but who, for whatever reason, haven't realized that with a little imagination and effort it actually could be theirs. I think there are a lot of people buying LCDs and plasmas every day who will come to that realization a few weeks or months after the novelty has worn off their 42" or 52" or even 65" flat panels. I go out of my way not to rain on the parade of friends who've made the jump to HD with a 42" or 52" screen, but if I can, I always suggest front projection for anyone who has the space/budget/inclination to do it.

Its always funny to me when we go to a friends house and they had just gotten a new flat screen and are all proud of it. My wife will always lean over to me and say "it's kinda small, don't you think?"

I know what you mean Joe. Took me a long time myself, actually.

Last Christmas my brother-in-law visited. He's mostly a "watch movies downloaded on computer guy" but has been very impressed watching movies on his recently purchased
LCD flat screen. He talked about it quite a bit.

Then he asked to see what I was planning. I only had borrowed business projector, 720p I think, at the time which I was using simply to discern my screen size and position on my wall - the final planning stages for my home theater reno.

And yet, when I fired up the opening scenes of Transformers my brother in law just went "Whoa." Despite the relatively low res, despite the fairly crappy contrast, the impact of such a huge image really hit him. "Man, this really seems the way to view movies, huh?"

He left asking me about how to acquire a good front projection set up.

As for my own set up, guests have got only tastes of what-is-to-come from a super dim 720p Panasonic projector on my wall. Yet they are taken in by the experience. Now that flat screen/widescreen 16:9 tvs have become the norm, it really takes something like front projection to produce an experience that is the next step, distinguishing from "watching TV" to "Cinematic."

Since then I've bought the JVC RS20 which is waiting to be projected on my soon-to-be-complete 124" wide screen. Friends and family say they can't wait until my HT is finished and it looks like I'll have lots of company for movie watching :-)

It's amazing how often the story repeats itself - people who see a front projection system want one. I was at a family BBQ today (about 20 people) and was helping my brother in law set up his home theater in the finished basement (he's a convert I lured into the fold). All the kids converged on the room when I got a DVD playing on that 100" screen - 5 hyper kids under 8 mesmerized and tamed by the experience. My nephew (who has a 57" rear projection HDTV - and 2 of those kids under 8) now wants a front projector. :)