Anyone know of any 720P LED pocket projectors in the works? I just read PC's review of the LG HS102G and it sounds pretty much exactly what I'm looking for, except that it is only 800x600. I have a completely light controlled room so the low light output isn't a problem. I want to be able to watch my hockey games in 720P though. Right now my Infocus X1 just isn't cutting it...

Hmmm. Guess nothing has been announced yet.

Anyone have the LG HS102G that can comment on how it scales to 720P?

Not any time soon. At least 2012 before you see one.

Take it for what it's worth:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/26/forever-plus-finally-takes-a-pico-projector-to-720p/

Thanks for the link. I think I'll wait for a company I've actually heard of to come out with something :) Hopefully it will be before 2012. My X1 will be an antique by then!

as i mentioned in an other thread. the 720p led projector from forever plus isnt far away from release. as i contacted them, they offer me a sample of the 720p model for very low cost in my opinion. what detains me is the lack of information concerning warrantys for the products. but maybe it isnt such a big deal for you? why not just contact them? i you decide to get one i would be very pleased to read the first worldwide review of this puppy in this thread from you. but even if you dont want to order one, if they get more an more requests they maybe realise, that they could earn big money an push release further.

heres the link of the product:

http://www.digiscope.url.tw/yellowpage/product_cg13562.html#48176

Hi Jeff....read on....http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1132007... & yes...I would be interested in picking up a 720P PJ w/HDMI regardless of who manufactures it....just make it available!

does anyone know if the LEDs dim over time like the bulbs they use now in projectors and if so at what estimated rate ?

does anyone know if the LEDs dim over time like the bulbs they use now in projectors and if so at what estimated rate ?

The lifetime of LEDs is usually noted in hours and combined with a % of their original brightness. Most LEDs (read: NOT 5mm think high power led emitters) have 30 000+ hours before they hit 70% of their original brightness. There is no need to worry about high powered LEDs.

The only reason their lifetime might be significantly reduced if they are not kept at or below their maximum operating junction temperature Tj. You should never see a difference in brightness in a correctly made LED unit it would be too gradual to ever notice. Think 10 years.... LEDs also do not get "used up" every time they are ignited such as arc lamps. So your really not gonna see any difference for the life of the projector x2 probably.

On another note I have my own self moded LED projector right now. It is 800x600 LCD. With a 50 watt LED. It is sufficient to watch movies and play games on a 100inch screen in a blacked out room. I use a Da-lite High Power screen. I will be moving onto a broken/no-lamp HD projector for my second LED projector iteration. Possibly DLP and large die single emitters from Luminus. If I can get it refined enough maybe Ill start releasing mod kits or something. We will have to see in time :)

Hi SG. Thanks for the link to the hs102g thread. Sounds like a great little projector for the price point (much like the X1 was when I bought it so many years ago). Reading the glowing reviews it is really tempting to jump in. Hopefully LG will come out with a home theater version with native 720P. The lack of an HDMI connection would certainly be addressed with a dedicated home theater version as well. I guess I will be patient (My X1 is still working, after all) and see what shows up at this year's CEDIA.

Hi Jeff...your quite welcome...yes...awsum unit...very pleased with its performance! I am also hoping LG will do a nex gen of this LED PJ with 720P & HDMI...well worth the wait.

Texas Instruments to HD LED projectors = Intel/Microsoft to netbooks.

They see a big market there, but they fear that it will hurt their high-margin conventional projectors. IMHO there is no other reason for the absence of 720p LED projectors than TI simply forbidding to use them in combination with LEDs.

Damn these companies letting their practical business decisions get in the way of our movie and high def TV watching enjoyment! Grumble...

Don't really know where to place this but here goes:

uk.cinenow.com/articles/9570-projectiondesign-avielo-kroma-implements-realed

looks very big and pricey. 100k hours lifetime... oh boy, gimme that! maybe they unfold an affordable 720p version at high end in munich, too?^^

The cost to make 3 blinking LEDs powering a DLP machine is not hard, nor is it expensive. I'll stick with my HD70 until manufacturers realize we're not that stupid to pay their price.

I expeced LED DLP 720p machines to be out now with a MSRP of $1500 or so at most.

On another note I have my own self moded LED projector right now. It is 800x600 LCD. With a 50 watt LED.

Is this one of those multichip white LEDs? How's the red reproduction?

I Found some Specs Online for the New 720p model from Forever Plus, the current version retails for $200... Hopefully the new model will be close to that in price;

http://foreverplus.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008825888749/pdtl/Projector/1010823178/Projector.htm


http://akamai.globalsources.com.edgesuite.net/f/593/3445/5d/pdt.static.globalsources.com/IMAGES/PDT/BIG/178/B1010823178.jpg


Slim 720P Multimedia Projector for Portable TV with Low Power Consumption
Model Number:720P for portable TVs

Key Specifications/Special Features:

Pocket media projector with 3.5-inch screen LED light
The combination of AV projector, portable media player, and digital video recorder
Lifespan of LED: 50,000 hours
No extra future cost to change lamp
Easy to carry and operate
Entertain yourself anywhere: watch movie, play game (projection on the wall or ceiling directly)
Personal entertainment center and hand held theater
Users can enlarge their small TV screen from this projector right away
User can lie down on the bed to watch movie on ceiling
CD story in bed time for kids
It will become bedside theater in bed time
Most students in dorm don't have TV set
With wall or ceiling, students can watch movie easily
User doesn't need to heat the projector at first and cool projector with fan in the end which are a must for general projectors
Low/no noise
Low power consumption
Connection: AV interface, USB for movie download and SD card


AND FROM:


http://www.digiscope.url.tw/yellowpage/product_cg13562.html#

http://www.digiscope.url.tw/yellowpage/product_l_48176.jpg

Portable 720P LED Projector
Worldwide smallest High-resolution (1280x728) 720P projector
The first Portable High-Resolution Projector in the world.

The most Handy powerful projector for Business Presentation.

An Easy-To-Use Handy High-Resolution Mobile Cinema.

Best P/P(Performance/price) ratio among 720P projectors.

Interface: HDMI, RGB (computer) or Video input.

Low-cost ownership: No future cost in lamp bulb replacement.



Applications:
1. Traveling Business Representatives.
2. High-Resolution Mobile Cinema Fans.
3. Professional projector and resolution-concern users.
4. Professional users concern about life span of lamp.
5. 16:9 Cinema lovers.
6. Wii or Game players; Video players of iPhone or iPod
7. Mobile Theater

Advantages:
1. The most compact dimensions of 12.5cmx15cmx5cm among high-resolution 720P (1280x 768) projectors.
2. The lightest 720P projector in only 800g.
3. No more extra cost in lamp replacement.
30,000 hrs long last LED light.
4. No more suffering from Low-Resolution images.
HDMI output supported.
5. Enjoy the pleasure of cinematic 16:9.
Original output of 16:9 meets the modern laptop computer and movie players.
It supports 4:3 as well.
6. Direct connection with HDMI, Computer or Video devices, i.e. DVD players, Wii, Game, iPod, iPhone. Friendly interfaces: HDMI, RGB, RCA.
7. Rich color saturation with fine resolution, non color distortion,
8. Energy saving of only 30W power consumption.

OK, here's the demo video (not mine) of the Forever Plus 720 projector (possibly called the "slim" projector):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzHH4ZlQvc0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftechvideoblog.com%2Fpage%2F2%2F&feature=player_embedded

You have to wade through the demo of the video microscope but the 720p is at the end.

The HD video feed actually gives you a good feel for the image it puts out. Unfortunately (or fortunately) the screensaver feed they are showing on the projector constantly scrolls color shifts to show off it's color capabilities, but what you can see is really not bad! Good resolution, pretty good edge to edge brightness (especially when compared to the current crop of pico projectors), and decent brightness (70 lumens).

They suggest it will street for $599 and will be available next month.

Sounds like a good second projector for those (like me) who want to use something for casual viewing without burning through my main bulb, but not a great first choice for a main projector.

OK, here's the demo video (not mine) of the Forever Plus 720 projector (possibly called the "slim" projector):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzHH4ZlQvc0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ftechvideoblog.com%2Fpage%2F2%2F&feature=player_embedded

You have to wade through the demo of the video microscope but the 720p is at the end.

The HD video feed actually gives you a good feel for the image it puts out. Unfortunately (or fortunately) the screensaver feed they are showing on the projector constantly scrolls color shifts to show off it's color capabilities, but what you can see is really not bad! Good resolution, pretty good edge to edge brightness (especially when compared to the current crop of pico projectors), and decent brightness (70 lumens).

They suggest it will street for $599 and will be available next month.

Sounds like a good second projector for those (like me) who want to use something for casual viewing without burning through my main bulb, but not a great first choice for a main projector.


Sounds like a great low-cost alternative to a TV in the bedroom, 2nd flat-panel for the cottage, etc etc.... Heck, even use it for regular TV viewing, and use main 1080p for movies.

Is this one of those multichip white LEDs? How's the red reproduction?

Decent!

after some email-correspondense with forever plus some additional information:

- sample units are available for 550 usd excluding delivery charge
- the projector HAS to stand in the way shown on pictures and the video but is able to rotate for 180 degrees
- the warranty is 1 one year with splittet costs for delivery in case of a malfunction
- the projector supports 1080p as well (scaled)
- theres a remote control !!! first led projector i know which has one
- english menu language available
- low noise

so in my opinion this is a very interesting projector even as a main ht unit. the only thing detains me from ordering one is that i live in germany. that means in a case of malfunction i would pay very high shipment costs. i hope there will be a european trader soon.

maybe someone ordering a unit and share his impressions on this forum soon. ;)

after some email-correspondense with forever plus some additional information:

- sample units are available for 550 usd excluding delivery charge
- the projector HAS to stand in the way shown on pictures and the video but is able to rotate for 180 degrees
- the warranty is 1 one year with splittet costs for delivery in case of a malfunction
- the projector supports 1080p as well (scaled)
- theres a remote control !!! first led projector i know which has one
- english menu language available
- low noise

so in my opinion this is a very interesting projector even as a main ht unit. the only thing detains me from ordering one is that i live in germany. that means in a case of malfunction i would pay very high shipment costs. i hope there will be a european trader soon.

maybe someone ordering a unit and share his impressions on this forum soon. ;)

I have a Sharp DLP projector which tends to eat expensive bulbs too often. But it is bright and has probably spoiled me with the light output. I don't know what that is on mine but it seems DLP's are usually measured in thousands of lumens. I don't know if the 70 lumens of the Forever Plus would do it as a main ht unit.

- Tom

depends on the circumstances. i've had an lg hs 101 which outputs 100 lumen in normal mode. i used it in eco-mode which should be comparable to the 70 lumen of the forever plus. projecting to an 60" screen the output was no problem, bright enough for sure as long as you watch in darkened room.

after some email-correspondense with forever plus some additional information:

- sample units are available for 550 usd excluding delivery charge
- the projector HAS to stand in the way shown on pictures and the video but is able to rotate for 180 degrees
- the warranty is 1 one year with splittet costs for delivery in case of a malfunction
- the projector supports 1080p as well (scaled)
- theres a remote control !!! first led projector i know which has one
- english menu language available
- low noise

so in my opinion this is a very interesting projector even as a main ht unit. the only thing detains me from ordering one is that i live in germany. that means in a case of malfunction i would pay very high shipment costs. i hope there will be a european trader soon.

maybe someone ordering a unit and share his impressions on this forum soon. ;)

The LG and Samsung LED units both have remote controls.

I would be a little wary of relying on this rather dim unit as a primary projector until some user reports are in.
I would put this projector as a step up from the little pico units available now in picture quality but the black levels, reliability, brightness are all major question marks right now. My pico projector from china lasted all of one day before the sound system blew...

Is it only using 1 LED bulb? ive seen flashlights and different things that use LEDs as a light source and when they stack multiple LEDs side by side or in a circle pattern they seem to put out alot more light.

Why would they only use 1 when they could pack more in and get the lumens up? I realize its for portability or its size but still.

Is it only using 1 LED bulb? ive seen flashlights and different things that use LEDs as a light source and when they stack multiple LEDs side by side or in a circle pattern they seem to put out alot more light.

Why would they only use 1 when they could pack more in and get the lumens up? I realize its for portability or its size but still.


I am no optics expert but I will take a crack at this. I believe the problem relates to an optical property called etendue. In the optics you learn in basic physics classes they generally use point light sources and other ideal components that disregard efficency. But in the real world some other properties of the system can become important. And with micro display projectors etendue, which relates to optical efficeny, is one of them.

The etendue of a system can become a real problem when you have a bottleneck in the optical path such as a micro-display. Things can get worse if you plan to enlarge the image from that very small display to fill a very large screen AND maintain good resolution. You may find that even though you are starting with a very bright lamp very little usable light ever makes it to the screen. Most real light sources are extended light sources and not point sources and that is perhaps the biggest part of the problem.

In order to get reasonable efficency out of a projection system with these constraints the light source must be small as compaired to certain of the other components otherwise your efficency goes way down. In extreme cases you will actually get less light out of a system by adding more LED's.

We all know how expensive a few hundred watt projector lamp is. And yet you can buy a 30,000 lumen high bay general illumination HID lamp for about $20 that will easilly last 20,000 hours. How can that be? Part of the reason for this is the need for good color rendition and lack of flicker. But perhaps the biggest part of the problem is getting the impossibly small arc lenth required by the system, and lineing it up precisely with a very specialized reflector.

You could just add more LED's, lamps, etc. to a projector. But do not expect to get more light out of it unless you take the rest of the optical pipeline into consideration. In the long run what you really need is a (very) small and bright single LED to get the usable brightness and image quality people really want and that usually takes new brighter LED technology and not just more LED's.

I hope I did not mess this description up too bad.

according to:

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/blogs/team+hcc/hands+worlds+first+led+dlp+home+theater+projector+undercuts+ three+chip+rivals+24+06+0

Vivitek plans to release a 1000 pound 1-chip-led-home-cinema-projector in autumn :)

seems to me that this christmas led-projectors could be THE moneymaker^^

i would bet that many companies will be joining LG and Vivitek of producing led-powered projectors. the last hurdle of low resolution will be overcome very soon and that will be the time of a rapidly growing market. ;)

according to:

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/blogs/team+hcc/hands+worlds+first+led+dlp+home+theater+projector+undercuts+ three+chip+rivals+24+06+0

Vivitek plans to release a 1000 pound 1-chip-led-home-cinema-projector in autumn :)Looks to me like that won't be LED:
According to Vivitek’s James Hue, two more conventional single-chip DLP models will join the brand’s line-up this autumn. Both aimed at AV fans, one will be priced at a highly competitive £1,000, with a step-up high-end model coming in at around £5,000.--Darin

then i am not the only one misunderstanding mr. hue:

http://www.aboutprojectors.com/news/2009/06/25/vivitek-h9080fd-projector-review/

"The writers were pleased to hear that in addition to the H9080FD, Vivitek plans to release two more low cost LED models that are similar to the H9080FD."

we will see in a couple of month ;)

i would be interested in a comparison between the noname 720p and a samsung 410p or lg hs...
its also the same price ..
the forever 720p is imported in germany now by this company
enwo-intl com
and available on ebay or cheaper (499eur) at some onlinestores.
its named "enwo hd"
there are also allready some fake user reviews and a stupid review on a crap sitecalled "sft"
i d really like to test this thing just to find out if its ok or total useless.
but 500eur? ....for a cheap looking piece of plastic?

Hi!

First time poster but a real review :)

I was reading this forum to find out what projector to buy, and I was interested in the Enwo 720p one. I couldn't find a review of it anywhere either, but I took a chance and got one off Ebay.

I used to have an LG HS-102, and I really loved it. The colours were just as good as a plasma TV and the blacks were great. Sadly it died. Well.. the screen went pink and it wasn't the VGA cable. But for over a year now I only turned it off three times, so that might have something to do with it :(

First thing, the Enwo has a longer throw distance. Its about 3ft further back to make the same 7ft diagonal screen the LG made.

I use my projectors as giant computer monitors, and for pretending my bedroom is a cinema. I need big screens.

The instruction book for the Enwo says it is only 60 lumens. My bedroom is completely light controlled. I would turn the brightness on the LG down, but I've turned the Enwo up.

It took me a long time to get a decent picture, as I'm fussy, and after the shock of seeing magentas and purples really *sing* on the LG, I spent about 3 hours fiddling with the Enwo's colours to get almost the same result.

The contrast ratio is not quite as good, thats why I was fiddling a long while. And if I send the picture any darker there is a brightness drop off in the far corners. Nothing to worry about though.

There is something I think not quite right about the almost black. When I have the blacks just right the next darkest shade is a little too light. I shall go play more with the adjustment curves screen on my video card.

I haven't noticed the fan noise.

Theres a rainbow effect on the Enwo I never noticed on the LG. It doesn't bother me as I won't be watching football, but if you like to see fast things moving about a lot, the Enwo might not be for you.

The increased resolution makes reading and general computery things a joy, but I'd say for home cinema the colors and gradations on the LG are better, slightly. Shame about the LG's lower resolution though.

I think, for my purposes, the two projectors are equal. LG makes a better home cinema, the Enwo makes a better computer monitor, if, like me, you have a general horror of daylight.

I only got the Enwo today. If it blows up in less than a year, I'll come back and tell you all about it.

I'd post pictures, but I haven't a decent camera. I can tell you without a pic though that you don't want to be using the Enwo under ambient light.

I like my new projector!

I Found some Specs Online for the New 720p model from Forever Plus, the current version retails for $200... Hopefully the new model will be close to that in price;

http://foreverplus.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008825888749/pdtl/Projector/1010823178/Projector.htm


http://akamai.globalsources.com.edgesuite.net/f/593/3445/5d/pdt.static.globalsources.com/IMAGES/PDT/BIG/178/B1010823178.jpg


Slim 720P Multimedia Projector for Portable TV with Low Power Consumption
Model Number:720P for portable TVs

Key Specifications/Special Features:

Pocket media projector with 3.5-inch screen LED light
The combination of AV projector, portable media player, and digital video recorder
Lifespan of LED: 50,000 hours
No extra future cost to change lamp
Easy to carry and operate
Entertain yourself anywhere: watch movie, play game (projection on the wall or ceiling directly)
Personal entertainment center and hand held theater
Users can enlarge their small TV screen from this projector right away
User can lie down on the bed to watch movie on ceiling
CD story in bed time for kids
It will become bedside theater in bed time
Most students in dorm don't have TV set
With wall or ceiling, students can watch movie easily
User doesn't need to heat the projector at first and cool projector with fan in the end which are a must for general projectors
Low/no noise
Low power consumption
Connection: AV interface, USB for movie download and SD card


AND FROM:


http://www.digiscope.url.tw/yellowpage/product_cg13562.html#

http://www.digiscope.url.tw/yellowpage/product_l_48176.jpg

Portable 720P LED Projector
Worldwide smallest High-resolution (1280x728) 720P projector
The first Portable High-Resolution Projector in the world.

The most Handy powerful projector for Business Presentation.

An Easy-To-Use Handy High-Resolution Mobile Cinema.

Best P/P(Performance/price) ratio among 720P projectors.

Interface: HDMI, RGB (computer) or Video input.

Low-cost ownership: No future cost in lamp bulb replacement.



Applications:
1. Traveling Business Representatives.
2. High-Resolution Mobile Cinema Fans.
3. Professional projector and resolution-concern users.
4. Professional users concern about life span of lamp.
5. 16:9 Cinema lovers.
6. Wii or Game players; Video players of iPhone or iPod
7. Mobile Theater

Advantages:
1. The most compact dimensions of 12.5cmx15cmx5cm among high-resolution 720P (1280x 768) projectors.
2. The lightest 720P projector in only 800g.
3. No more extra cost in lamp replacement.
30,000 hrs long last LED light.
4. No more suffering from Low-Resolution images.
HDMI output supported.
5. Enjoy the pleasure of cinematic 16:9.
Original output of 16:9 meets the modern laptop computer and movie players.
It supports 4:3 as well.
6. Direct connection with HDMI, Computer or Video devices, i.e. DVD players, Wii, Game, iPod, iPhone. Friendly interfaces: HDMI, RGB, RCA.
7. Rich color saturation with fine resolution, non color distortion,
8. Energy saving of only 30W power consumption.

Are these out? Its been a year since this was posted..

I only got the Enwo today. If it blows up in less than a year, I'll come back and tell you all about it.
Since you have told us about nothing new, everything appears to be all right with your Enwo. Besides, this is the current German amazon (http://www.amazon.de/EnWo-HD-Notebook-Projektor-1280x768/dp/B002U2HJWI) offer of that 70 lumen HD-Ready LED projector.