Hello. I have read through several threads here in AVS regarding issues with bass management and time alignment when connecting universal players to AVRs, and I confess I'm confused.
I have a 7.1 set up and my Pioneer Elite AVR (which I'm using as a preamp) has HDMI, Digital coax and Optical inputs, as well as 8 analog inputs.
I am considering an Oppo DV-980H player purely for DVD-A and SACD playback.
Is there an audiophile preferred audio connection? Digital or analog?
Depending on the connection, will my AVR's MCACC be in effect or bypassed?
Will LFE and bass management be set in the player or in the AVR?
Thank you in advance for bearing with rehashed questions on this.

I now have downloaded the Oppo manual and hopefully these questions are addressed there.

The manual is well written and I think this is what I've learned. Since I have an HDMI 1.3 capable receiver, using this hookup can maximize the audio signal passed by selecting "raw" for digital output and selecting the highest LPCM output frequency. For SACD, select DSD over HDMI for optimal receiver decoding. It seems to me that if I use the HDMI connection method, I wouldn't have to bother with speaker setup menus in the Oppo player, is that right? The AVRs eq settings and bass management would be in play.
If all this is true, I guess I still don't know if there is any reason to utilize the analog connections between Oppo and AVR.

Hello. I have read through several threads here in AVS regarding issues with bass management and time alignment when connecting universal players to AVRs, and I confess I'm confused.


I suggest you focus on the overall value of the specific universal disc player, and put player bass management (or lack thereof) lower on the overall "must have" list.

I have a 7.1 set up and my Pioneer Elite AVR (which I'm using as a preamp) has HDMI, Digital coax and Optical inputs, as well as 8 analog inputs.

I am considering an Oppo DV-980H player purely for DVD-A and SACD playback.


Not a bad unit for the money.

I have a 981 (recently discontinued) and recently gave a 980 to a friend, so I have more than a little familiarity.

Is there an audiophile preferred audio connection? Digital or analog?


Not so far as I know.

Analog (8 RCA interconnects for 7.1) is more messy, but FWIW that's what I mainly use.

My 981 is somewhat weak with it's RCA outs, and AFAIK the same is also true of the 980.

Will LFE and bass management be set in the player or in the AVR?


You can do bass management in a number of ways. Aside from the above, if you have the right subs (nothing fancy) you can also buy an "inexpensive" 1/3 octave equalizer and use it for the LFE channel so that you avoid bass management digital processing possibly impacting the SQ of the midrange and highs.

re your choice of the OPPO 980, IMHO the current closeout on Denon DVD-2930ci players ($298 vs $849 new) is the best player deal that I've so far gotten. I've had it for 3 weeks and love it, mainly due to it's great audio and that it doesn't have a fan. Try amazon search with: Denon sacd player

I wouldn't worry too much about the mixed reviews over it as that appears to me to be over possibly having to open the unit up and use a saturated cotton swab (with iso alcohol?) to occasionally clean the laser head.

Also, the 2930ci setup menu does not appear to have any bass management. Maybe it's there, and I need to find it in the manual somewhere? But so far I don't miss it.

edit: currently amazon shows only 6ave selling at $298. If that disappears, keep checking for the next two weeks as closeout pricing tends to bump up and down. Given that they show themselves (amazon) and 5 others selling, this should be available for a bit longer.

Cheers

For SACD, select DSD over HDMI for optimal receiver decoding.Provided your AVR can accept DSD. Otherwise just set it to PCM.


It seems to me that if I use the HDMI connection method, I wouldn't have to bother with speaker setup menus in the Oppo player, is that right? The AVRs eq settings and bass management would be in play.
If all this is true, I guess I still don't know if there is any reason to utilize the analog connections between Oppo and AVR.Yep, you've got it. That is all true. You have no reason to use a multichannel analog connection for the player.

I suggest you focus on the overall value of the specific universal disc player, and put player bass management (or lack thereof) lower on the overall "must have" list.With a multichannel analog connection and a need to bass manage, the bass management capabilities of the player ARE important.


Is there an audiophile preferred audio connection? Digital or analog?Not so far as I know.

Analog (8 RCA interconnects for 7.1) is more messy, but FWIW that's what I mainly use.It may not necessarily be the "audiophile preferred" connection, but an HDMI connection is far and away the best connection method in his particular circumstance (and probably the preferred audiophile connection, too).


re your choice of the OPPO 980, IMHO the current closeout on Denon DVD-2930ci players ($298 vs $849 new) is the best player deal that I've so far gotten. I've had it for 3 weeks and love it, mainly due to it's great audio and that it doesn't have a fan. Try amazon search with: Denon sacd player

I wouldn't worry too much about the mixed reviews over it as that appears to me to be over possibly having to open the unit up and use a saturated cotton swab (with iso alcohol?) to occasionally clean the laser head.

Also, the 2930ci setup menu does not appear to have any bass management. Maybe it's there, and I need to find it in the manual somewhere? But so far I don't miss it.

edit: currently amazon shows only 6ave selling at $298. If that disappears, keep checking for the next two weeks as closeout pricing tends to bump up and down. Given that they show themselves (amazon) and 5 others selling, this should be available for a bit longer.The 2930 can't pass SACD via HDMI. But it does have LARGE or SMALL speaker settings so it CAN bass manage.

Thank you both, for helpful replies. Since I am just dipping my toes into this particular pool, I am favoring the Oppo since I would like the flexibility of playing SACD and DVD-A over HDMI.
Then looking forward to pursuing threads here for favorite purchases.

Thank you both, for helpful replies.


You're welcome.

Since I am just dipping my toes into this particular pool, I am favoring the Oppo since I would like the flexibility of playing SACD and DVD-A over HDMI.


You can also do this with the Denon DVD-2930ci player. The one thing that the OPPO can do is send DSD over HDMI. IMHO the odds are that it's a hocus pocus mis-leading non-issue, for a cheap disc player like the OPPO 980, and one that you will either never use or if you do that you won't be able to tell any SQ (Sound Quality) difference about. FWIW, I have DSD capability with a $500 Pioneer player and so far I've never bothered to try it for the simple reason that it would force me to re-hook up my Denon AVR-3808 (which I don't think much of, other than as a backup unit) in order to transfer sound via HDMI into my AVR for decoding there. Letting a quality disc player do the decoding has equal or more merit for SQ, with the one downside that you need to use 6 RCA cables for 5.1 (or 7 (or 8?) for 7.1).

Then looking forward to pursuing threads here for favorite purchases.


In my own experience with the 3 players, i.e. Denon 2930ci (which I own), OPPO 981 (which I own), and OPPO 980 (which I bought as a present and helped set up), the 2930ci player is a no-brainer choice over the other two so long as you can get it on closeout at something like $298 (roughly $118 more than the 980 from amazon). Both the audio *and* video are noticeably better than that of either OPPO player.

Good luck whatever you choose.

And BTW thanks to sivadselim for the heads up that the 2930ci does some bass management; I'll look for that in the manual.

Cheers

Just out of curiosity, which Pio AVR do you have?

I have owned several of them, and really liked the ones with i-link capability for hirez audio use. I paired a 56txi and an VSX-84txsi with a DV47ai.

I recently swapped them out for a Onkyo PR-SC885 pre/pro with Emotiva amps, and had to give up the i-link capability in my HT. (Which was a tough decison for me. I really liked the i-link capability and SQ.)

The point of my question was whether you could use i-link on your AVR. There are DV47ai's and DV59avi's around prettty cheap these days, and one could be a solution for you.

To re-instill my hirez capability, I bought a refurb'd Oppo DV980H from Oppo direct on eBay a couple weeks ago, to do just what you are attempting. I've had a few minor issues with the DSD capability, but have really enjoyed the player for SACD and DVD-A playback.

The HDMI output allows use of all of the Audyssey DSP modes, and makes the whole install pretty easy. Best $135 I've spent lately, and Oppo gave me a 12 month warranty as well.

You can also do this with the Denon DVD-2930ci player.The 2930 will not do SACD, even as PCM, via HDMI.

http://home.comcast.net/~schiz/2930_sacd1.jpg


http://home.comcast.net/~schiz/2930_sacd2.jpg


http://home.comcast.net/~schiz/2930_sacd3.jpg

Just out of curiosity, which Pio AVR do you have?

I have owned several of them, and really liked the ones with i-link capability for hirez audio use. I paired a 56txi and an VSX-84txsi with a DV47ai.

I recently swapped them out for a Onkyo PR-SC885 pre/pro with Emotiva amps, and had to give up the i-link capability in my HT. (Which was a tough decison for me. I really liked the i-link capability and SQ.)

The point of my question was whether you could use i-link on your AVR. There are DV47ai's and DV59avi's around prettty cheap these days, and one could be a solution for you.

To re-instill my hirez capability, I bought a refurb'd Oppo DV980H from Oppo direct on eBay a couple weeks ago, to do just what you are attempting. I've had a few minor issues with the DSD capability, but have really enjoyed the player for SACD and DVD-A playback.

The HDMI output allows use of all of the Audyssey DSP modes, and makes the whole install pretty easy. Best $135 I've spent lately, and Oppo gave me a 12 month warranty as well.

I never considered the i link. I use the VSX91TXH as a processor and an Adcom amp. I will reread the Pioneer manual.

You're welcome.




You can also do this with the Denon DVD-2930ci player. The one thing that the OPPO can do is send DSD over HDMI. IMHO the odds are that it's a hocus pocus mis-leading non-issue, for a cheap disc player like the OPPO 980, and one that you will either never use or if you do that you won't be able to tell any SQ (Sound Quality) difference about. FWIW, I have DSD capability with a $500 Pioneer player and so far I've never bothered to try it for the simple reason that it would force me to re-hook up my Denon AVR-3808 (which I don't think much of, other than as a backup unit) in order to transfer sound via HDMI into my AVR for decoding there. Letting a quality disc player do the decoding has equal or more merit for SQ, with the one downside that you need to use 6 RCA cables for 5.1 (or 7 (or 8?) for 7.1).




In my own experience with the 3 players, i.e. Denon 2930ci (which I own), OPPO 981 (which I own), and OPPO 980 (which I bought as a present and helped set up), the 2930ci player is a no-brainer choice over the other two so long as you can get it on closeout at something like $298 (roughly $118 more than the 980 from amazon). Both the audio *and* video are noticeably better than that of either OPPO player.

Good luck whatever you choose.

And BTW thanks to sivadselim for the heads up that the 2930ci does some bass management; I'll look for that in the manual.

Cheers

After Sivad's comment, I looked at the 2930ci manual and it confirmed that the SACD wouldn't pass over HDMI. My AVR's manual also informed me that if I use the MCH inputs, there would be no effect of my bass management or room eq.

The 2930 will not do SACD, even as PCM, via HDMI.


OK, for the moment I'll accept that.


http://home.comcast.net/~schiz/2930_sacd1.jpg



Interesting pic/table. Kindly provide a ref for it, thanks.

FWIW, that's not in my just received Denon DVD-2930ci manual.

But how interesting, I just checked the back of my unit and it shows manufacturing date of Nov. 2006.

Anyhow, is your above pic/table for the older 2930, or for the newer 2930ci that I have??

The key thing I'm saying is that given the current closeout pricing of the Denon DVD-2930ci (even one made 2+ years ago like mine), it is a generally better player in my experience than either the OPPO 980 or 981, both of which I've experience with.

Given that you're pretty handy with 2930 info (the ci version, right?), do you actually own either a Denon 2930 player or a 2930ci player?

If you do own either a 2930 or 2930ci, don't you think that it is being very misleading to be suggesting that either OPPO player is somehow a "better" deal?

I mean, the price difference is not currently that much different.

The key things I'm saying are:

1) I use 5.1 RCA out from my players, and

2) my Denon 2930ci player (owned 3 weeks now) is far superior in both video (upscaled via HDMI cable) and audio of all kinds via 5.1 RCA out (including HDCD which is a compatible super variant of standard redbook CD).

I won't be buying any more OPPO players, of any kind, for the foreseeable future.

Cheers

Hi, again. I didn't take Sivad's response as preferring the Oppo over the Denon (I'm sure he can speak for himself). I believe he was just alluding to the HDMI connection question I posed. The chart came from Denon's website updated 4/18/2009 on page 11 of the manual. http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3262.asp

FWIW, that's not in my just received Denon DVD-2930ci manual.It came straight from the 2930ci manual.

http://www.usa.denon.com/DVD-2930CI-OM-E_100.pdf

You were also unaware that your player could bass manage which is pretty unbelievable. That player has the capability of applying several different crossover values. That is very clear in the manual, too. I do not think there are ANY universal players without at least some sort of bass management capability.


Anyhow, is your above pic/table for the older 2930, or for the newer 2930ci that I have??It is directly from the manual for the 2930ci that I posted above.


The key thing I'm saying is that given the current closeout pricing of the Denon DVD-2930ci (even one made 2+ years ago like mine), it is a generally better player in my experience than either the OPPO 980 or 981, both of which I've experience with.If one is interested in using an HDMI connection there will be no difference between any of those players. Except of course that the 980 CAN pass SACD as both DSD and PCM via HDMI. And if HDMI is the desired connection method, I can see no reason to buy a player that can't pass SACD via HDMI.


Given that you're pretty handy with 2930 info (the ci version, right?), do you actually own either a Denon 2930 player or a 2930ci player?I'm pretty handy with the manuals for lots of products. All you have to do is download them and read them. It's all right there in the manuals. And I have quite a collection of manuals on my hard drive. I am very familiar with the specs as well as operational details of many other players and AVRs besides Denons. And if I am not, I can very quickly read the manual to make myself so.


If you do own either a 2930 or 2930ci, don't you think that it is being very misleading to be suggesting that either OPPO player is somehow a "better" deal?I never said that, did I? (Maybe I did, I don't know.) Given his requirements and preference for using an HDMI connection, the 980 would be a much better choice. I don't care how much it can be had for, the inability to pass SACD via HDMI is a real deal-breaker. The Pioneer products cited in this thread can also pass SACD as DSD or PCM via HDMI.


I mean, the price difference is not currently that much different.But the capability of the products is.


1) I use 5.1 RCA out from my players........That's fine but I do not think that is his intent if he can avoid it. And there are several reasons why using an HDMI connection from the player would be preferable to using a multichannel analog connection. There is really no reason NOT to use HDMI if you have that capability. An AVR usually offers much more processing capability than most any player. I do not have HDMI capability myself but sure wwish I did. I have struggled with utilizing the multichannel analog connection with 2 Denon universal players and I would MUCH prefer being able to do all the processing in an HDMI-equipped AVR. I am well aware of the inherent issues associated with using a multichannel analog connection.


2) my Denon 2930ci player (owned 3 weeks now) is far superior in both video (upscaled via HDMI cable) and audio of all kinds via 5.1 RCA out (including HDCD which is a compatible super variant of standard redbook CD).Both of those opinions are very subjective. You may be correct that the video is superior, but were both players calibrated properly with video calibration tools when you compared their video quality? And I have very little faith in anyone's comparative evaluation of audio quality. How did you do that comparison? Blinded? Level-matched? Identically calibrated? It is next to impossible for anyone to adequately control for all the variables that are there to do the audio comparison fairly and without bias, in-home. And even if you could, there is nothing that would dictate which was better except a personal preference. Someone else may find that the other player sounds better to them.


I have used Denon universal players as well as the OPPO 980. I returned the 980 because it had a bass management flaw with DVD-As and I was limited to a multichannel analog connection. With the need to bass manage with the player, that was a deal-breaker for me. That flaw has since been partially addressed with a firmware update but the player still has a DVD-A bass management flaw.

My current Denon 757, which I purchased as an inexpensive stop-gap after my Denon 2200 crapped out, also, unfortunately, has a DVD-A bass management flaw. My experience with both the 2200 and my current 757 is that the Denon transport is ridiculously loud and this is a very common complaint with many Denon players. The OPPO was whisper quiet. Whether the 2930ci exhibits this issue, I do not know. But if the 2930ci could pass SACD via HDMI, I probably would have already bought one already.

Hi, again. I didn't take Sivad's response as preferring the Oppo over the Denon (I'm sure he can speak for himself). I believe he was just alluding to the HDMI connection question I posed. The chart came from Denon's website updated 4/18/2009 on page 11 of the manual. http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3262.asp


I'd been meaning to download the 2930ci manual, thanks very much for the ref. :)

To my embarrassment, that table, on page 11, is also on my hardcopy page 11. <reddish grin>

Just to make it clear, I use a single 5.2 setup; 80% of the time for music playback and only 20% of the time for movies. I use an older expensive prepro ($5k when new, Cary Cinema 8 that does not have HDMI). I avoid all digital processing in the prepro. I've put my money where my mouth is (in a small way) with this purchase of this very decent Denon 2930ci universal disk player.

Good luck with whatever you do.

I'm still learning.

Maybe this is the "blind" trying to help the blind? :)

I hope you're enjoying this coz I guarantee you that I actually am too. :)

The one thing I've learned with music/HT is that the things that change (recently) are HDMI (mind boggling tables of what players and/or receivers can/can't do), and Blu-Ray players, and recent AVR's and recent prepro's (again HDMI issues).

It was an easy decision for me, 2 years ago after buying two different mid-level Denon AVR's, to set HDMI aside and use lots of decent self made RCA interconnect cables. For one thing, I get the cable length exactly right, the Canare RCA plugs I buy are the best and easy to grip when it comes time to pull things out in order to redo cabling, and decent RG6 wire costs 41 cents/ft. :)

Amps (SS or tube) don't change that much, and neither do CD players. SACD and DVD-A players also look stable to me, but seem to now being dumped in favor of new, but so called "better" Blu-Ray players.

I know a few things about new as I've done business computer software all my life.

On a different front, if new really was better, America would be a very healthy place.

Instead America spends more on prescription pills/meds than roughly the next 10+ countries combined, and our health is near the bottom of this class.

Same seems to me to also be true for the dumping of SACD/DVD universal players in favor of the still newer yet much more expensive Blu-Ray players. As far as I can tell, there are no sound benefits to MC Blu-Ray audio discs over either MC SACD or MC DVD-A discs.

It's built into our system and our thinking, and big company marketing has picked up on it big time.

Check out "Our Daily Meds" by Melody Petersen (paperback ~$10 at amazon, suggested list of $16). Significant controversy over this book.

Then too, there's that McDonald's movie: Super Size Me

What else is new? :)

Cheers

My current Denon 757, which I purchased as an inexpensive stop-gap after my Denon 2200 crapped out, also, unfortunately, has a DVD-A bass management flaw. My experience with both the 2200 and my current 757 is that the Denon transport is ridiculously loud and this is a very common complaint with many Denon players. The OPPO was whisper quiet. Whether the 2930ci exhibits this issue, I do not know. But if the 2930ci could pass SACD via HDMI, I probably would have already bought one already.


Thank you for your long <a lot of it snipped by me> and decent and thoughtful response.

I currently run 6 players into my prepro (Cary Cinema 8) and am trying to finagle in a 7th. Of these, the best 4 come in as analog (3 as 5.1 RCA via a Zektor MAS 7 switcher, and the 4th as straight in stereo), and go out as analog, without any digital processing.

Main system is SS 5.2; players, prepro, amps.

Secondary system is mixed 2 channel; SS player to simple tube pre to simple tube mono blocks.

My main interest is music playback. I'm still buying/trying mainly MC SACD discs (and the occasional DVD-A disc) but am still undecided if it (MC music) really means anything more to me than above average quality CD discs.

In general, CD audio disks are less expensive than either SACD or DVD-A discs.

OTOH, MC discs (either SACD or DVD-A) clearly have a lot more TLC (Tender Loving Care) that goes into the mastering and manufacture of them.

Cheers

Just out of curiosity, which Pio AVR do you have?

I have owned several of them, and really liked the ones with i-link capability for hirez audio use. I paired a 56txi and an VSX-84txsi with a DV47ai.

I recently swapped them out for a Onkyo PR-SC885 pre/pro with Emotiva amps, and had to give up the i-link capability in my HT. (Which was a tough decison for me. I really liked the i-link capability and SQ.)

The point of my question was whether you could use i-link on your AVR. There are DV47ai's and DV59avi's around prettty cheap these days, and one could be a solution for you.

To re-instill my hirez capability, I bought a refurb'd Oppo DV980H from Oppo direct on eBay a couple weeks ago, to do just what you are attempting. I've had a few minor issues with the DSD capability, but have really enjoyed the player for SACD and DVD-A playback.

The HDMI output allows use of all of the Audyssey DSP modes, and makes the whole install pretty easy. Best $135 I've spent lately, and Oppo gave me a 12 month warranty as well.


I suspect that you meant these comments for someone else?

Anyhow if you meant it for me, I don't have a Pioneer AVR.

But I do have a universal Pioneer Elite DV-58AV player. A mixed bag. Decent player, very decent universal playback capabilities, but a total PITA to use as it generally requires the TV on in order to make use of stuff like putting a disc into a simple thing like repeat disc (whole disc) mode. The one unique thing that it does, that I really like, is that it remembers several DVD movies; so if I eject movie#1 at the mid-way point and then watch movie#2 all the way through (over say 2 days), and then reinsert movie#1, it instantly remembers to start at the mid-way point where I left it, without again repeating all the stomach turning total Hollywood BS about going to prison if you even think about trying to backup (ordinary DVD movie) the disc.

Cheers

I never considered the i link. I use the VSX91TXH as a processor and an Adcom amp. I will reread the Pioneer manual.

I don't think the 91 will do i-link (although it may). Seems like the 84 was the last one. The ones that do have an "i" in the model number. I-link is an IEEE1394 compliant connection that would pass hi-rez signal back years ago. Never really caught on, probably since it was prorietary to each mfgr. Denon had theirs, Pio had theirs, wouldn't talk to each other. Sounded good, though. Kind of the "best" of the multi-channel digital interconnects until HDMI.

I suspect that you meant these comments for someone else?

Cheers


The original poster.

I am much more familiar with surround formats in home theater, so, I am still trying to understand multichannel music (before my Oppo arrives).
I have a 7.1 setup. My yet to arrive high rez player has 7.1 analog capabilities, but I've settled on using the HDMI hookup to my 7.1 processor/receiver.
Question: will SACD and DVD-A music play on 5 of my speakers, all 7, or is there selection flexibility?
Would the answer matter whether I used the 7.1 analog connections vs the HMDI?
If the answer is only 5 of my 7 speakers will be utilized, what if I wanted to use the surround back speakers rather than the 2 surround side speakers?
Not knowing the answer to the above, I will ask one more stupid question. Are there any recordings in these formats that utilize the entire 7.1 setup?
Thanks.

I am much more familiar with surround formats in home theater, so, I am still trying to understand mulitchannel music (before my Oppo arrives).
I have a 7.1 setup. My yet to arrive high rez player has 7.1 analog capabilities, but I've settled on using the HDMI hookup to my 7.1 processor/receiver.
Question: will SACD and DVD-A music play on 5 of my speakers, all 7, or is there selection flexibility?
Would the answer matter whether I used the 7.1 analog connections vs the HMDI?
If the answer is only 5 of my 7 speakers will be utilized, what if I wanted to use the surround back speakers rather than the 2 surround side speakers?
Not knowing the answer to the above, I will ask one more stupid question. Are there any recordings in these formats that utilize the entire 7.1 setup?
Thanks.
5.1 will be 5.1 from the player. Your AVR may or may not be able to matrix 5.1 to 7.1 using one of the popular 7.1 decoders or DSP modes. Doubtful that you can re-map the side surrounds to the rear in your AVR.

SACD does not support 7.1, and neither does DVD-A. For 7.1 you'd have to go to BluRay, and those are rare.

And FWIW, the 7.1 analog outs from the player are the least functional option. If your AVR supports all the audio types over HDMI, that's by far the best route to take. But of course you can do both.

Very clear and helpful reply, thanks. So, the MCH 7.1 Oppo outputs are there for the HT surround formats, not high rez audio.
I will play with my setup once all the hardware is in place. I imagine I could bother to disconnect my side surround preout interconnects, and connect the back surround interconnects in their place, if those were the speakers I wanted to use playing back high rez audio sources.

Very clear and helpful reply, thanks. So, the MCH 7.1 Oppo outputs are there for the HT surround formats, not high rez audio.
I will play with my setup once all the hardware is in place. I imagine I could bother to disconnect my side surround preout interconnects, and connect the back surround interconnects in their place, if those were the speakers I wanted to use playing back high rez audio sources.What receiver do you have? Many Denons allow for two sets of surrounds - sides for movies and pulled back for music. But, yes, if your rear speakers are positioned properly for music, then you could always swap cables depending on what layout you want to use. Or, you might find that a DSP such as PLIIx works well for you with music in a 7.1 set-up.

What receiver do you have? Many Denons allow for two sets of surrounds - sides for movies and pulled back for music. But, yes, if your rear speakers are positioned properly for music, then you could always swap cables depending on what layout you want to use. Or, you might find that a DSP such as PLIIx works well for you with music in a 7.1 set-up.

Wow, am I out of it, or what?? I assumed that I wouldn't want to apply a DSP to SACD or DVD-A, to listen to the music exactly the way it was mixed (which I've just learned shouldn't be any more channels than 5.1). DPLIIx Music mode is there on my AVR (Pioneer Elite VSX91) and a lot of others. I will experiment. Gracias.

Very clear and helpful reply, thanks. So, the MCH 7.1 Oppo outputs are there for the HT surround formats, not high rez audio.


Um, no. The SACD and DVD-A formats don't support 7.1, only 5.1. The Oppo analog outs work for anything you play.

Swapping cables is one way to deal with your desired output. Dolby PLIIx-Music will duplicate the side channels into the back channels. PLIIx-Movie might also be useful even for music, as it actually creates different back and side channels. ES and EX decoders will create a single back channel into both back speakers. There are certainly several DSP modes in your AVR that will have similar effects.

Wow, am I out of it, or what?? I assumed that I wouldn't want to apply a DSP to SACD or DVD-A, to listen to the music exactly the way it was mixed (which I've just learned shouldn't be any more channels than 5.1). DPLIIx Music mode is there on my AVR (Pioneer Elite VSX91) and a lot of others. I will experiment. Gracias.You cannot listen to any format/source "exactly the way it was mixed" until you eliminate the effects of your room's acoustics. Ergo, processing/EQ is needed for that.

:)
Thanks, Kal. Point understood and well taken.

if i had the oppo and a pioneer dsd/hdmi avr i would use it as a transport. if i had the denon (and I do have a 1930 and a 5910) i would use the analog outs. but thats just me.

I assumed that I wouldn't want to apply a DSP to SACD or DVD-A...............You wouldn't. Unless you just had to have your rear surrounds involved. In which case you MIGHT be able to apply a DSP such as DPLIIx in order to get something to the rear surrounds. Not all AVRs can apply DPLIIx (and other DSPs) to decoded SACD and DVD-A when it is passed as bitstream and not all AVRs can apply DPLIIx (and other DSPs) to 5.1 channel multichannel PCM. Your AVR may be able to one or the other, both, or neither.

But I wouldn't use "DPLIIx music mode" as it will alter the front channel mix as it was intended to be played back. Plain ol' DPLIIx (cinema?) will only bugger with the surround channels to give you 4 instead of 2 channels back there. It may actually be preferable to use a different DSP which may be available to you which will simply create an exact duplicate of the side surround info at the rear surrounds. You should experiment but, as you hinted, if you desire 7.1 channel playback with SACD and DVD-A, it would be preferable to alter the intended mix as little as possible.

This is what's so great about the AVS forum. I learn a great deal about my audio/video hobby; I derive a better understanding and appreciation of my equipment, and life is good.

Unfortunately, my manuals do not contain detail describing how the surround speakers acheive their signals from stereo or 5.1 sources with the varied modes I have at my disposal. For instance, I would have no idea that using the DPLIIx Music mode would affect the front channel mix. Do you have a good reference I can download that explains the similarities and differences among DPLIIx modes, Dolby Digital EX, THX MUSICMODE, etc. I know eventually I will be asked to to listen to what sounds good to me :), but I do like drilling down into the science a bit.

I have been very pleased with the performance of my Oppo player and my Pioneer Elite AVR processing of SACD and DVD-A over HDMI.
I am curious if all high rez players (like my Oppo) recommend a hookup of at least 720 or 1080 resolution to the display unit in order to maximize the bandwidth of the signal. Also, the manual recommends turning off the video signal for the same reason. Frankly, I am somewhat skeptical that my aging auditory nerves appreciate an audible difference, what with no double blind tests, but I am curious.
As a corollary, my AVR suggested changing the default to "High Bit Sampling" when playing back these discs. Okay, done, but wonder why that isn't a default setting. Thanks.

The Oppo requests that you use 720p or 1080i/p for video because the HDMI spec provides increasing audio bandwidth with the increasing video bandwidth. At 480i/p, the HDMI audio bandwidth is not sufficient for all 5.1 channels at 96/24, which would result in either degraded audio quality or only 2-ch transmission.

Turning off the video circuit is simply because it is possible that the video processing circuitry could impact the audio somewhere in the system (either digital or analog, theoretically), and so some people like to be assured they have no unneeded sources of interference. For me - I can't hear the difference, or at least I haven't noticed that I hear the difference.

AFAIK,

shinksma

I have been very pleased with the performance of my Oppo player and my Pioneer Elite AVR processing of SACD and DVD-A over HDMI.
I am curious if all high rez players (like my Oppo) recommend a hookup of at least 720 or 1080 resolution to the display unit in order to maximize the bandwidth of the signal. Also, the manual recommends turning off the video signal for the same reason. Frankly, I am somewhat skeptical that my aging auditory nerves appreciate an audible difference, what with no double blind tests, but I am curious.
As a corollary, my AVR suggested changing the default to "High Bit Sampling" when playing back these discs. Okay, done, but wonder why that isn't a default setting. Thanks.
The Oppo BDP-83 will default to 1080 output any time you put in a SACD or DVD-A, regardless of your settings in the player's setup. This has been made fool-proof for obvious reasons. All the other Oppo players require that you manually set the resolution. SACD and DVD-A multichannel audio cannot be sent over HDMI at resolution of less than 720.

As to the advantages of using "pure direct" mode in the player. You cannot "shut off" video in an HDMI setup, there has to be a video signal or there's no audio. Most players will create a black screen in that scenario. Doing so will free up processor power for audio processing, the benefit of which depends on the source material and whether it's being processed at all. At best, the benefit is arguable.

Excellent information by both replies, thanks. To clarify my AVR, I am not using Pure Direct. I have to go to the AV Parameter Setup Menu and select :
HI-BIT / HISAMP
(High Bit /
High
Sampling)
Creates a wider dynamic range with
digital sources like CDs or DVDs.
OFF
ON
The Default is Off. Just wondering what downside would be for the device to have it ON.

Excellent information by both replies, thanks. To clarify my AVR, I am not using Pure Direct. I have to go to the AV Parameter Setup Menu and select :
HI-BIT / HISAMP
(High Bit /
High
Sampling)
Creates a wider dynamic range with
digital sources like CDs or DVDs.
OFF
ON
The Default is Off. Just wondering what downside would be for the device to have it ON.
Hard to say based on what you've posted. If it's some sort of PCM up-sampling then it's not going to offer much if anything. Won't hurt to try it.