I finally have my modified Barco 1209s up and running, just a few miner issues to sort out

I have a small problem with horizontal image shaking

about every 5 to 10 seconds I can hear a slightly watery clicking sound coming from the SMPS area of the PJ, exactly when this sound happens I get a very slight image shake on various portions of the image

it is usually around the edges and only effects what seems to be a portion of the screen about the same size as the Barco convergence cursor in fine adjustment, the image moves slightly inward (only horizontally) and then moves back out, all in a split second, this moves around the screen to various places but seems to stay along the outside area of the image and is most of the time on the left hand side somewhere, it happens exactly everytime with the clicking sound

could this be related to pot adjustments? lets be honest the service manual is a joke when it describes adjusting these, with my current setup block at 1080p/60 with the horizontal size at 99 I get 17.01v on that pot, where the service manual indicates to measure the +48v pot I am getting 169v which is BS for sure, if I set this pot to 48v with that same reading position the PJ will not power up and has a scan failure

can anyone give a quick and dirty correct PJ setup enviornment for adjusting those pots?

thanks for the help

-Gary

Both voltages should be adjusted using standard video frequency (15.6 kHz STD internal pattern) according to manual. Set also brightness and contrast to mid position and then adjust to 17.5V.

+48V is frequency dependable voltage and is much higher with high resolution.

I wouldn't use +48V method for picture width, because manual is made before resolutions we are using. So width set by manual is probably too narrow for example 1080p. I set Hwidth to around 90 with highest resolution I use and then adjust pot until picture fills tube.

I have done exactly as Ile as suggested on my 1100 and have no problem. Basically 17.5 rail is set to 17.5 (I know there is some question about what it should be set). Next I go to the highest resolution I am going to use and set the electronic width to 90 and then use the horizontal pot to exapnd until it fills the screen. Doing that I have had no problems so far. Knock on wood.

thanks guys

the manual says 49 picture width as well when adjusting the +17.5v pot

so I should put up a 15.6khz internal pattern, set contrast and brightness to 49 each and set horz size to 49 as well, then adjust that pot for +17.5v

Greg Eisemann says to make the image width wider than the screen by a pretty good amount(maxed out horizontal size and then set the pot for larger than the screen)

you then adjust the porches on your HTPC or scaler to bring the image back in to correct aspect, I have always done this with every CRT I owned because it makes a cleaner more stable image due to the funkiness of the scan on the sides(specifically the left side when front/ceiling mounted) is now way out of the picture, the Barcos without a doubt have the worst raster ringing interference type garbage on the left side of the image, so this helps with that

any takers on the portions of the image moving with the slight popping sound? there is a possibility that the click/popping sound is coming from the Quad or G2 board, too hard to pinpoint, but it is in the vicinity of the SMPS, G2, Quad, EHT area, this gets much worse with higher contrast and gets worse as the unit runs longer and longer, the first 30 mins or so after powerup this does not happen

I hope to God it is not the quad, I paid alot of dough for this from Mad Mr. H and it was supposed to be perfect

thanks

UPDATE:following the above procedure my voltage was 17.78, I set it to 17.50 exactly, there is some talk of 17.00, so I would love to hear anyone elses opinions on that

-Gary

I have done exactly as Ile as suggested on my 1100 and have no problem. Basically 17.5 rail is set to 17.5 (I know there is some question about what it should be set). Next I go to the highest resolution I am going to use and set the electronic width to 90 and then use the horizontal pot to exapnd until it fills the screen. Doing that I have had no problems so far. Knock on wood.


Oh goody,this was the only way I could fill my screen and was worried,as I'd gone over 48v,but seeing as others are having to do the same is reassuring:)
The only difference is I have my width at 96.


Dave

anyone have any info on the pots on the horizontal deflection board pots

very good news, Greg got back to me and said he thought my clicking sound with image twitter was the SMPS size pot, it looks like he was right, I corrected this with a standard timed 1080p signal and it has 99% stopped, about every 3 mins I am hearing a much fainter click and a very slight twitter in the far out corners, however doing this and getting rid of my porch adjustment on the scaler shows the nastiness along the edge of the image on the left hand side, my horizontal delfection board must be wrecked, I have the worst raster ringing and geometry distortion I have ever seen on a CRT

-Gary

Gary
Do you have a pic of the left,mine was also disscusting,especially the blue,even today it's not perfect but good enough.
You can elimate it via a combination of raster shift/horizontal phase and porch settings,and/or setup from scratch.


Dave

Dave, the left is a total mess for me

there are 7 or 8 large hum bars vertically on all 3 tubes, green being the worst, the top left corner on the green tube is darker and distorted with vertical disortion, the horizontal lines of the red and blue convergence grid are wavy all up and down the left side

seems I spoke to soon, the clicking sound has reappeared and the image twitter is still there, came back after a hour or so, I am now thinking it is coming from the quadrupler

-Gary

Gary,

I feel your pain, it must be getting frustrating dealing with these problems one after another. Keep with it though and you'll get it working 100% sooner or later.

Gary, check those two big white ceramic resistors in horizontal board, those defect easily when board is removed and I remember read that cracked one can cause extra ringing to left side.

Check also similar ceramic resistors in deflection switching module.

Ile, it looks like both my tall ceramic resistors are cracked!! :mad: one of them is in 3 pieces

-Gary

Gary,

I feel your pain, it must be getting frustrating dealing with these problems one after another. Keep with it though and you'll get it working 100% sooner or later.

i'm still truckin, getting things worked out now, just a few small issues, one was a stuck unthreaded red flapping adjustment, had to remove the tube to fix that but it is taken care of now

another small issue I have is what seems to be a bad 4 pole magnet setup, the astig control on my blue tube doesn't affect the tube, the flare works fine but the astig no, very strange

I don't want to speak too soon but I ran this guy 10 hours yesterday and it looks like the pop/image jitter issue might have started to burn itself out, Greg says quads will sometimes do that, when siting unused for a long time they need break in to remove tiny bits of moisture etc.

let me say this though, this fully modified 1209s/e(HDFury2, Box1020 and VP50pro with HD-SDI sources) is something special, I thought I had seen the best CRT image out there, nope! this thing is serious, I mean just WOW!! :eek:

Gregs mods are awesome!!!

-Gary

Well I'm sure everyone in the CRT world is pulling for you to get it running 100%.

I'm glad you like Greg's mods.

let me say this though, this fully modified 1209s/e(HDFury2, Box1020 and VP50pro with HD-SDI sources) is something special, I thought I had seen the best CRT image out there, nope! this thing is serious, I mean just WOW!! :eek:

Gregs mods are awesome!!!

-Gary

Glad you're impressed:):)
I wish you'd done the mods AFTER you had the thing running and set up properly,just to see how much of a difference the mods have made.To state "Gregs mods are awesome!!!" without seeing it prior to mods doesn't really mean much to someone like me who's on the fence,I mean the mods are the cost a new LUG!:(

Dave

Dave, I have seen before and after of various mods on gear, what I am seeing on this PJ with Gregs mods is what I usually attribute to mods, there is just a natural cleanness to the image which allows it to show more natural truly crisp detail

the Barco units are hammered with internal edging as well, so they need some TLC

but you are correct I cannot comment on the before

also remember that I replaced the entire RGBHV signal chain with Mike Parkers(and mine) favorite Belden minicoax, from BNC inputs to the neck card input I removed all connections in there(3 or 4) and used male/female RCAs at the neck card with the leads soldered directly to the cards(no pcb connectors), everything I did was 75ohm, what the Barco does on its board is another matter and I can't answer to, but the results are nice ;)

I bought all the mods and a new green LUG from Greg and I am 100% pleased, he is right about his LUG tubes, they are special :)

-Gary

Gary

Seems like you've invested alot of time and coin into the Runco,I hope it's accompanied by longevity:)

On a side note,how did you reglue your sheimpflug cams? I used Araldite,seems to have done the job but am curious as to what you used.



Dave

Dave

I removed the nut from the bottom of the adjustment, coated the inside of the cavity, screw and the nut with JB Weld, works better than standard form ;)

-Gary

anyone know the details on the ceramic resistors on the horz def board, mine are busted

otherwise the board looks good, no roasted linearity coil, still waiting to hear from Greg about his mods for this board, I have to be rid of this problem

just spent about 25 hours over 3 days whipping this beast into shape and she is done now, what a beauty :eek:

-Gary

Both are 82 ohm 17W wirewounds.

thanks Ile, looks like 10% tolerance as well

so I can swap any ceramic wire wounds in there that fit the specs? seems so

one problem:

newark=no
mouser=no
digi-key=no
ebay=no

looks like a very rare combination and hard to find :(

thanks

going exact won't work, I will never find that, so it looks like this is my only option:

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuQ5%2fsBR7SoAsjnehY2Uao58tyb b0Q4NSY%3d

-Gary

Are these the resistors that you're talking about. If so, you'll have to consider the space and size...


http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt130/mp20748/Picture2010.jpg

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt130/mp20748/Picture2009.jpg

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt130/mp20748/Picture2011.jpg

YEs the ones you can get from Mouser well work fine.

yes Mike

how would you guys position these?, put one end lead right on the board and the other left long an curled down to the board, the ones there are currently done that way

or something else?

thanks guys

-Gary

Just stand them up like they are now. You'll have to extend the top lead, just put some small heatshrink over the lead(s) and run it down the side.

thanks Walter

will report back soon, hopefully this helps my problems, the left side of my image is a wreck, convergence is a mess and can't be fixed

the horizontal grid lines of the red near the left edge look like a sine wave :(

-Gary

thanks Walter

will report back soon, hopefully this helps my problems, the left side of my image is a wreck, convergence is a mess and can't be fixed

the horizontal grid lines of the red near the left edge look like a sine wave :(

-Gary

Dude, you have one of the worse problems you could have with a Barco HDM. You should pull the board and check for other loose or broke components. Something may have come loose during shipping.

If you have a meter you can easily check the resistors in circuit. They are low ohm resistors, and breaking loose is not un-common on these.

If that board was modified, then you should send it back to Greg to correct. That is of course, if it was one of the boards that he modified during his mods. That should be the good news for you... the bad news is, you'd not want to continue using that board in your projector with the problem that it's having.

Mike

what will happen if I run the PJ with this board like this? I have been running the heck out of it for 3 days to get everything broke in

this was not one of Gregs modified boards, but he does have a special mod set just for this board which I am talking to him about right now

Mike I will remove it and check it over, any tips or etc. are appreciated

thanks

-Gary

I have went over ever solder joint top and bottom, inspected every cap and resistor, nothing is loose, out of place or missing, nor any solder issues

I checked all the values of the biggest resistors, all are perfect dead on, the 2 large ones I removed were a bit off though, the 95% perfect resistor was 82.4 ohms, the one cracked majorly was 82.8 ohms

no swollen caps or discolored caps/resistors, no burn marks, my linearity coil looks brand new

this Horz def board looks brand new all around in fact

I need Gregs complete fix looks like :(

-Gary

so a little update, got the large 82ohm resistors in and replaced the cracked ones, not a damn difference :(

got another brand new horz def board in installed it and again not a bit of difference, still massive raster ringing and distortion on the left side of my screen

could it be anything else? remember this is currently setup to be a data 1209s/e, the scan system is one mode, the scan board on the flip down panel has one width adjustment for each tube, BUT I actually just got in all the boards to ugrade to graphics 1209s/e, should I do it?

thanks

I thought that Greg's mods were suppose to clean up the left side ringing?

Walter, Gregs mod package does not include that, they are video only

he is now offering a left side complete fix, but it is separate and I bet that every Barco 1209s needs it from what I have seen, this is just nasty :mad:

its throwing my vertical convergence off on both sides as well(red on left and blue on right), impossible to get it dialed in, not to even mention the sine wave looking red horizontal convergence issues on the left edge of the screen

this is without a doubt the worst raster ringing problem I have ever had on a CRT, by a mile, swapping in new boards tells me it is a design problem, which I have heard about the Barco many times

-Gary

Gary,

Those mods have been available for a few months now according to Greg. Actually I thought he had said that if you get the other boards done he would throw in the left side fix for free.

Walter, I think has has had them completed for a bit now but needed testing done from Andy and a few others, I think the fix is something like 300$

whatever the case I am going with it, can't stand this crap and the Barco can't handle extreme porch tweaking like my previous XG did, otherwise I could size this crap off screen and porch tweak via my scaler

-Gary

Well let us know how it works out after you get it done. On my Cine8 I can barely notice the ringing and it only extends out from the left side about 6" on my 7" screen and thats on 1080i or p. There are ways to get it off the viewable screen but not usingthe whole reaster etc. but I have my raster maxed out on both sides.

will do Walter, thanks

-Gary

I would like to know the "fix" too, as mine does it also, more in highscan mode, only my VP50 can minimize the 'problem'.
Dan

Dan, I have done everything I can to minimize it and it is still horrible, now if I didn't know how to minimize this (as you say a scaler is vital or HTPC I guess) then it would be unwatchable IMHO, but I have tamed it 75% and again can still barely tolerate it, the convergence issues it is causing is more of a problem than anything

I will let you guys know how it goes, Greg making a fix for this is one of the biggest things to hit CRT in a long time ;)

after that if I can just get the HDFury folks to correct some issues or at least try and work with me in some way to address them, I will be good to go, at this point since I am using all SDI/HD-SDI sources I am thinking of going straight analog from the VP50pro to the Box1021, but that means running those cables which ain't easy :mad:

-Gary

Gary, How is the 1209s going these days? I'm interested in how the video chain mods have turned out.

Gary, How is the 1209s going these days? I'm interested in how the video chain mods have turned out.

Your just a Woody Woodpecker arent you!! ;)

Athanasios