I have two DVR's 75 Eh and 85 EH, as everyone knows us OTA folk are screwed come June 'cause we don't have digital tuners.. has anyone info on changing out the old tuner on these DVR's with an ATSC? and...would that provide the programming with an antenna connection? Thanks in advance. Bill

The tuners cannot be changed- and you wouldn't want to anyway. Like almost every other brand, Panasonic has terrible problems with their ATSC recorder tuners (timer croaks, channels get dropped, recordings never happen or fail midway). Hard as it is to believe, there really aren't any DTV recorder options that are anywhere close to the reliability of your old Panny 75 and 85. The only OTA-DTV solution for these is to use one of the better accessory tuners like the Zenith DTT901 or Channel Master CM7000. These can be controlled by the IR blaster that came with your recorder, as if it was a cable box. One of these two outboard tuners will beat the pants off any new recorder with a built-in tuner and give new life to your great older models.

Unfortunately nothing can be done about the analog TVGOS- it gone on June 12th. All kinds of solutions have been floated as "pending", but its a crock so far. Until and unless they get around to fixing this, you will have to program your recorders as if they were VCRs: manually. Their timers will then switch channels on whatever outboard tuner you buy. Losing the TVGOS feature is not as bad as losing the entire recorder: there is nothing available new at all comparable to the EH-75 or EH-85, you're lucky to have them.;)

I have two DVR's 75 Eh and 85 EH, as everyone knows us OTA folk are screwed come June 'cause we don't have digital tuners.. has anyone info on changing out the old tuner on these DVR's with an ATSC? and...would that provide the programming with an antenna connection? Thanks in advance. Bill

This question has been discussed in some detail in an earlier thread.

The chip-based operating system must be specifically designed to support an ATSC/QAM tuner. The Panasonic operating system resides in the main CPU. That CPU is located on the factory configured and model-specific Digital PCB. For hard drive models the Digital PCB must be factory configured to provide support for the hard drive through the hard drive PCB. Since digital tuners were never offered in Panasonic hard drive models none of the Digital PCBs for hard drive models support digital tuners. Swapping in a later digital tuner (with more than forty tightly arranged soldered pins) in a 2006 or earlier model would probably destroy the functionality of that product.

If you want an ATSC tuner your best alternative is a Coupon Eligible Converter Box (CECB). I own and use the Zenith DTT901 connected to composite inputs on 2006 DMR-ES15 or DMR-ES35V models. That's the easiest solution for recording digital broadcast stations. I also own, but do not currently use the Zinwell ZAT-970A that has eight channel changing event timers. If one records a variety of OTA channels the Zinwell 970A or 950A would offer greater flexibility than the Zenith. There is a small market for more expensive stand-alone ATSC HD tuners.

If you want a QAM tuner your options are more limited. I haven't kept up on stand-alone QAM tuners because I own four HDD/DVD recorders and six DVD recorders with QAM tuners.

Two of the HDD/DVD recorders (Philips 3576 and Magnavox 2080) are set up cable ready and record daily from their QAM tuners. The other two HDD/DVD recorders (Philips 3575 and Magnavox 2160) are enslaved to a Comcast Motorola converter box so these machines do not record from their QAM tuners. These Philips and Mangnavox HDD/DVD models are flexible and reliable.

I also own five QAM tuner equipped 2007-2008 Panasonic EZ series DVD recorders. None of these Panasonics are currently used to record from their digital tuners. Four are currently enslaved to a Comcast Motorola converter box. The fifth EZ series DVD recorder has been removed from service. Workarounds are necssary to keep my Panasonic EZ series machines functional. The Panasonic EZ series has well-documented bugs and design flaws.

I also own a digital-tuner Sylvania DVD recorder. This recorder is set up cable-ready and records from it's QAM tuner daily. This model has bugs and design flaws. This Sylvania, like the Philips and Magnavox models, is built by Funai, but unlike those models the Sylvania CPU is from Panasonic.

It should be noted that the E85H can only control the Channel Master box with it's IR blaster, and not the Zenith.

The EH75V, on the other hand, can control both with it's blaster.

If you want a box that can be controlled by the EH75V's blaster, and also has event timers (so you have a choice of methods, if you prefer one over the other), the only one that'll work is the DTV Pal Plus. (I'm not sure if the E85H can control that one, but since it uses an old Scientific Atlanta cable box code, there's a possibility.)

If you strictly want to go with using event timers, the Zinwell is generally more dependable than the Pal.

The advantage to using the IR blaster, though, is that you only have to set the timers on the recorder, rather than both the recorder and the tuner.

If you're after the best picture quality bar none I'd suggest the Channel Master CM-7000 feeding your DVDRs via S-video. The downside of the CM is as mentioned you'll need to use manual TVGOS events, IOW you won't have your programming guide. With the CM I'd use the IR blaster to control multiple events.

If you don't want to mess with the IR blaster and are OK programming 2 things (your DVDR and the CECB) the Zinwell may be your box.

If you're willing to sacrifice a little bit of picture quality (from what I've been told) the Pal + would be your box. The advantage of the Pal is you may be able to get it to convert the digital TVGOS to analog for your old DVDRs that only use analog TVGOS. A few people claim to have gotten the Pal to do just this. It seems like not all areas are broadcasting the correct signal yet (if ever) so depending on your market this may be a option for you.

Personally I have a large (46") flat screen so PQ is the #1 concern for me. I'm using several CM-7000s for my various DVDRs and am using my analog TVGOS in my EH-55 for now (until June). After June I'm not sure what I'll do, I may try a Pal or I may just live with manual events on my CM-7000. I have a Tivo HD that has a great guide if I need to look at a online guide.

Like everything else we all talk about here, there is a compulsive tendency to rate something "the best" as if it was 500% better quality than any other option. The truth is a little different, and psychology plays a role. The Channel Master CM7000 is an excellent tuner, but it really doesn't staggeringly outperform every other tuner by a huge margin. It has issues, just as every other CECB does: they're built to a price, and they show it. The CM7000 is the only passable model with an S-video connection, this one "exclusive" feature drives people into fits of rapture that usually requires a bong to induce. But S-video jacks don't guarantee an improvement for everybody: with some hardware it looks worse, and with the CM7000 you don't have the fallback option of ordinary RCA connection because it performs poorly via that socket. Depending on your exact reception location, you may find its station-pulling ability better than average or completely hopeless.

My point being, most of the tuner choices mentioned here will work OK for a DVD recorder. You have to filter some of the reviews because a lot of people hook these tuners directly to a 16:9 large-screen TV when testing them. Such tests are not comparable to using them with a recorder, because the recorder can't use the full 16:9 resolution and defaults to 4:3 letterboxing (unless you use RAM discs on the Panny or flip a menu switch on a couple of much older recorder models). In 4:3 letterbox mode its much harder see dramatic visual differences in these tuners. So if you need the full-featured program guide of the DTVpal Plus or the multi-event timers of the Zinwell or the reliable zoom features of the Zenith more than you need S-video, don't hesitate to choose one of those over the Channel Master. Also, the government subsidy program is pretty useless if you're particular: in most cases the coupon is only accepted by local retail stores, which inevitably don't carry the better tuners. At this point the CM7000, the Zenith and the Zinwell are totally sold out at retail and can only be found at online stores or eBay for about $50, and those sellers don't accept the coupon discount. The DTVpal sometimes shows up at Kmart but I haven't seen one in awhile.

The CM7000 does have the advantage of using old Pioneer Cable Box infrared signals, which makes it easy to use with the IR blaster the Pannies come with. But other CECBs can also be used this way, you just have to run a quick search thru AVS to find what remote code other people succeed with on their own Panasonics. If you choose the DTVpal, it uses its own variation on TVGOS for multi-event timers which is pretty simple and lets you dispense with the Panny blaster. The other tuners don't have program timers, so you would just leave them turned on all the time and set to whatever channel you want to record (or hook up the Panasonic blaster to control them).

If you're after the best picture quality bar none I'd suggest the Channel Master CM-7000

When I said "bar none" I wasn't really saying the others were poor, I was just getting at that if PQ is your #1 concern(and you were willing to give up things such as the TVGOS grid or the better zoom control on a box like the Zenith) you couldn't go wrong with the CM. It's true if you plan on using the composite output or you have a smaller LCD or tube TV any of the mentioned boxes will probably work just fine.
BTW I record 16:9 all the time to standard DVDs on my Panasonics fed from my CM boxes, it's just that the image is horizontally compressed and you need a TV capable of stretching it back out to full 16x9. Basically any 16:9 digital TV will have this feature. If you have a 4:3 TV you may want to letterbox the output of the CECB before recording from it otherwise the image will look vertically stretched on a 4:3 TV.
The CM does have a pretty nice 24 hour PCIP guide whereas the Zenith only has NEXT/NOW PCIP guide. I'm not positive if the Pal relies on PCIP or if it's a variation of TVGOS for it's guide. I've read it is supposed to go out 7 days so maybe it's something like TVGOS, but I can't believe it's as nice or fancy as the real TVGOS like your DVDR currently receives.

BTW my comments above regarding CECB accessory tuners should be taken as general-purpose, they were not a specific reply to jjeffs posts (which contain additional useful info on various ATSC boxes).:)

I have two DVR's 75 Eh and 85 EH, as everyone knows us OTA folk are screwed come June 'cause we don't have digital tuners.. has anyone info on changing out the old tuner on these DVR's with an ATSC? and...would that provide the programming with an antenna connection? Thanks in advance. BillTake a look at this thread Controlling a CM-7000 CECB w/Panasonic TVGOS DVDR (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14840328#post14840328). You'll find posts in there by jjeff and myself as to how we hooked up a CM-7000 to our Panasonic DVDR's and notes on operation -- what you give up for what you get. jjeff has an EH-55 which is the same as your EH-75 sans the VCR stage and I have an E-85 so you'll get exactly the information you are seeking. jjeff has a large widescreen and I have a 50" Panasonic plasma. As detailed in that thread, you get full support for recording and playback of 16:9 video.

As jjeff has already noted, if you have a large, sharp display and you want the best PQ, then the CM-7000 is the best choice because of the S-Video output to feed your recorder. I have a CM-7000, Zenith and Digital Stream CECB's. When feeding the E-85 via their composite outputs they all look the same as far as recorded PQ displayed on a 50" plasma -- which is to say, they look OK but are very noticably SD and you never forget that. The CM-7000 feeding through S-Video produces a much sharper recording; after a while you forget you are not watching HD. I used a CM-7000 on my E-85 for six months after I bought my plasma because I couldn't bear to watch analog recordings on it. Once it is set up with the ir blaster you just leave the CM-7000 on 24x7, tuck it away in the back and put away it's remote -- everything is controlled by the DVDR. I found it all to be completely reliable for lots of daily recordings during the fall TV season.

The arrangement is not perfect, you give up a bit of functionality, but it is a very cheap way to maintain the utility of your legacy analog equipment and better adapt them for a widescreen digital display. The Channel Master CM-7000 is available online from Solid Signal (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=CM-7000) for $42.93 + S/H -- Gov't coupons are accepted by Solid Signal.

My Pannys do not have a programming guide nor IR blaster. Worst case scenario would be to connect a different converter box to each video input, and tune each one to a different channel. This would give a choice of recording two different channels.

My Pannys do not have a programming guide nor IR blaster. Worst case scenario would be to connect a different converter box to each video input, and tune each one to a different channel. This would give a choice of recording two different channels.With the exception of one model (which I can't remember) only the HDD Panasonic DVDR's from the E-85 to the EH-55/75 had TVGOS functionality and an IR blaster. If you have a non-HDD model without IR blaster you cannot control any external tuner box from the recorder. In that case, and assuming you are OTA, you would be best off with a Zinwell or DTV Pal Plus which have programable timers. You would then have to program both the CECB to change channel at the appropriate time and the DVDR to record from the line input at the corresponding time.

If you only record a few things per week, this may not be an arduous task. If you do more frequent recording for time-shifting you will quickly grow weary of the task. If so you might want to look into a DTV Pal DVR or a TiVo HD.

Also, the government subsidy program is pretty useless if you're particular: in most cases the coupon is only accepted by local retail stores, which inevitably don't carry the better tuners. At this point the CM7000, the Zenith and the Zinwell are totally sold out at retail and can only be found at online stores or eBay for about $50, and those sellers don't accept the coupon discount. The DTVpal sometimes shows up at Kmart but I haven't seen one in awhile.


CECB availability, although getting a bit thin, is not as bad as you claim CitiBear. CM7000, Zenith and Zinwell are all available through online retailers (amazon, solidsignal) and gov't coupons are accepted. Kmart/Sears seem to be restocking the Zenith; I bought mine at Kmart several days ago. DTVpal is harder to get but I believe Sears still carries them.

IMHO, the Zenith is ahead of the pack unless you absolutely can't live without an event timer or you really want s-video. It's user interface and displays are remarkably sane, and the box doesn't feel cheap at all. And after the gov't coupon it is only $9.95 at Kmart. Yet folks have given the Channel Master excellent reviews; it is certainly worthy of consideration, and it only costs a few bucks more (with shipping). The Zinwell and, especially, DTVpal have garnered very mixed reviews.

And I agree with CitiBear on his comment: "most of the tuner choices mentioned here will work OK for a DVD recorder".


_Lazza

With the exception of one model (which I can't remember) only the HDD Panasonic DVDR's from the E-85 to the EH-55/75 had TVGOS functionality and an IR blaster.

According to my post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16171983&postcount=1)the "only" non HDD Panny that had TVGOS(and as such a IR blaster) was the '04 E-65. Conversely, the only Pannys to have a HDD and no TVGOS was the first Panny with a HDD, the '02 HS2 aka 3040 and also the '03 models E80H and E100H.

Currently I have Comcast cable and use an EZ17 for clear QAM HD programs and an ES20 connected to a Motorola HD STB. And the Motorola STB can be programmed to change channels. If I drop Comcast, the EZ17 can handle OTA ATSC and the ES20 would be connected to two CECB units. Since the recorders do not have hard drives there is only so much programming they can hold. Hopefully two RAM discs would hold the essentials when I'm on vacation, especially during summer. And Hulu might provide access to other programs. I am thinking about building/buying an HTPC and have been reading a lot of threads on that forum. It seems like having several tuners is not a problem.