I'm not a complete newbie here and I've looked and looked at rec's, but can't decide which route to go. I loved the 4805 which of course makes me partial to DLP. But it looks like LCD has been making more ground up. I would prefer a 1080p.

The 4805 is 15' from my 105" 16:9 DIY black-out screen. Light controlled (although standard white drywall ceiling), darker walls. Seating distance is adjustable, but right now I'm at 13' or so.

I'd like to spend under $2k but if there is something slightly above that, that's worth the extra cash for a non-videophile, I'm open to listening.

Mostly watch movies and football. I would like to hook up the Wii which would mean some on/off type use. Thank you.

The closeout on the Infocus X10 might be worth a look. Very bright 1080p.

My X1 died a slow lingering death. On a whim I bought a Mitsubishi HC1600 from Amazon. Why couldn't I have made judgements as good as that when I was choosing wives?

Forget 1080. The Mitsu will will blow you away, especially if your 4805 bulb had been old. The most popular 1080 projectors cost about $2,300. The 1600 at Amazon has dropped to near $600. It shipped (standard shipping) to me in just one day.

You will save over $1,500. I expect you to send me only $500 for this advice.

Panasonic AX200u. Great projector, very bright, good daytime use.

Since you loved the 4805, and indicate that you prefer DLP, I would stick with DLP. I went from an X1 DLP to a Panasonic AE700 LCD thinking the 720P resolution was going to be an upgrade. It was okay, but panel alignment issues, vertical banding, and finally the polarizer burning out made it a less than great experience. I went with the Planar WOOT deal last fall and got the 7150 for around $600. So happy to be back with DLP, and this generation of high level 720P DLP is fantastic. I was going to recommend this path, but based on another recommendation in this thread I looked up the Infocus X10 deal, and I have to say that changed my recommendation. Last fall the best deal was older high end 720P DLP technology. It would appear that 1080P DLP technology is starting to become bargin priced. Since you are not a videophile and were happy with the 4805, how could you go wrong with the X10? If my Planar starts behaving badly (like most of the ones reported on since last fall), this may be my option as well.

Since you loved the 4805, and indicate that you prefer DLP, I would stick with DLP. I went from an X1 DLP to a Panasonic AE700 LCD thinking the 720P resolution was going to be an upgrade. It was okay, but panel alignment issues, vertical banding, and finally the polarizer burning out made it a less than great experience. I went with the Planar WOOT deal last fall and got the 7150 for around $600. So happy to be back with DLP, and this generation of high level 720P DLP is fantastic. I was going to recommend this path, but based on another recommendation in this thread I looked up the Infocus X10 deal, and I have to say that changed my recommendation. Last fall the best deal was older high end 720P DLP technology. It would appear that 1080P DLP technology is starting to become bargin priced. Since you are not a videophile and were happy with the 4805, how could you go wrong with the X10? If my Planar starts behaving badly (like most of the ones reported on since last fall), this may be my option as well.

I have looked at the X10 and it does look really good but I want to make sure I'm getting something that will still look really good in 4 years or so.

Is there something in the $2,500 range that someone could recommend?

I hate to be one of those guys who recommends the projector they just bought (after all, that's all these threads ever are :D), but if you loved the 4805 I can't imagine you not being thrilled with the X10. The current price is an absolute steal and the supply won't last forever.

I made the progression from 4805, to IN76, to the X10, and in each case there was an incremental improvement in performance. The manual iris on the X10 is a great feature and is a big improvement over the older platforms. It allows you to dial in the brightness/black level.

It's possible you may ultimately be happier with a 1080p LCD like the Epson 6500UB, but unless you have a chance to view an LCD first, IMO it would be a huge risk to buy one sight unseen. You know what a DLP image looks like, and the X10 will give you the image you're used to, only better. If you blind buy an LCD, you may discover you've made a mistake.

Another good DLP option is a refurb BenQ W5000, which is also a great deal.

What X-10 deal is this thread referring to?

There was a deal on Tigerdirect (circuitcity.com) at the time.

Alright, I've narrowed by search to the following:

Benq5000

Sony HW10

Infocus IN83

I realize that the IN83 is priced quiet a bit more than the other two, but is the price worth the difference? Thanks.

Alright, I've narrowed by search to the following:

Benq5000

Sony HW10

Infocus IN83

I realize that the IN83 is priced quiet a bit more than the other two, but is the price worth the difference? Thanks.

Also, does anyone know of any good rebates/deals coming out in the near future? Thanks.

Not to parrot JeffKB, but I can't imagine you not being happy with the X10 if you can make it work in your room. It will be nearly identical to the IN83 except for black level. Take the money you save and apply it in a few years to a new projector using one of the new technologies that will no longer be using a bulb.

I have looked at the X10 and it does look really good but I want to make sure I'm getting something that will still look really good in 4 years or so.

Is there something in the $2,500 range that someone could recommend?

The Panasonic AE pt3000 is a superb choice. Excellent blacks, inorganic panels, aspect control built in and frame interpolation for the price you listed. Frame interpolation is one feature that will be a must have feature on any good ht projector in the future I predict...

The AE3000 is a very good choice. The built in aspect control would be a plus if the author intends to go with a scope setup. Frame interpolation is hotly contested as a pro or con however. I wouldn't say it is a must have feature. This thread on the $3000+ forum illustrates the varying opinions on the technology:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1145585&highlight=frame+interpolation

The technology is something one really needs to sit down and view to see if they like it. To me 24p playback is more important and thankfully most of the projectors being discussed have this.

The one area where the AE3000 will really shine in comparison to the X10 is overall black level. However the X10 will not suffer from any panel misconvergence or color uniformity issues. The X10 will also have superior out of the box color calibration. I have yet to see an AE3000 in person, but I would hazard a guess and say that the X10 is the sharper of the two.

The AE3000 is a very good choice. The built in aspect control would be a plus if the author intends to go with a scope setup. Frame interpolation is hotly contested as a pro or con however. I wouldn't say it is a must have feature. This thread on the $3000+ forum illustrates the varying opinions on the technology:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1145585&highlight=frame+interpolation

The technology is something one really needs to sit down and view to see if they like it. To me 24p playback is more important and thankfully most of the projectors being discussed have this.

The one area where the AE3000 will really shine in comparison to the X10 is overall black level. However the X10 will not suffer from any panel misconvergence or color uniformity issues. The X10 will also have superior out of the box color calibration. I have yet to see an AE3000 in person, but I would hazard a guess and say that the X10 is the sharper of the two.

Though I'm a DLP guy, I have seen the AE3000 in action and it's quite excellent, and overall a step above the X10.
Frame Interpolation is indeed controversial, and I still haven't decided if I like it or not, but I believe it is a feature that most people will insist on in the future. I actually feel it is most useful on a picture blown up to 10' or so rather than say 52".

Like any comparison, a lot depends on preference. No brick and mortar place around here carries Panasonic projectors, so I haven't had the chance to audition the 3000u. I do get to see Sony, Epson, and Mitsubishi's though. I have sat down and spent some time with a 1080UB as it was one that I was strongly considering buying. So I can make some comparisons and extrapolations from Art's review of the AE3000u and his comparisons to the Epson.

I am running my X10 on a 110" Da-Lite HCCV screen, the 1080UB I watched was on an approximately 100" matte white screen. I'm running the X10 with it's iris reduced to 36 and will base my comparisons to that. The 1080UB was calibrated and it's colors appeared slightly more saturated compared to the X10. The X10 does have better flesh tones and is more accurate. The X10 is noticeable sharper than the 1080UB (I have not seen a sharper 1080p projector). The X10 has no color uniformity or convergence issue (something I particularly dislike) where as the 1080UB had some noticeable fringing on text. The 1080UB has noticeably better blacks. Though with the iris settings the X10 isn't as far behind as one would think. The X10 is about equal in brightness to the 1080UB. According to the Projector Reviews comparison the Epson was brighter than the Panasonic AE3000u, which would make the X10 brighter as well. The Epson has slightly better blacks which would put the X10 closer to the Panasonic (though I have no doubt the Panasonic would still be better). The Epson is also slightly sharper than the Panasonic, which would also mean that the X10 is much sharper.

Again, unfortunately, I can't make a direct comparison. The original MSRP of the X10 put it in direct competition to the AE3000u. The AE3000u should have a better black level, has built in anamorphic, and has frame interpolation and frame tripling of 24p matieral. The X10 should be much sharper, be brighter, and have a little better out of the box color accuracy. The X10 will also not suffer an convergence or uniformity issues. Whether the Panasonic is a "step up" depends on which features you value and which elements of the overall picture are more important to you.

I bought the X10 because it's current pricing makes it an outstanding value. I did not expect to like it as much as the 1080UB I had been considering. But it's sharpness, color accuracy and lack of any misconvergence and uniformity really put it in the same league. Closing the iris makes the black level acceptable enough given it's other strengths.

Like any comparison, a lot depends on preference. No brick and mortar place around here carries Panasonic projectors, so I haven't had the chance to audition the 3000u. I do get to see Sony, Epson, and Mitsubishi's though. I have sat down and spent some time with a 1080UB as it was one that I was strongly considering buying. So I can make some comparisons and extrapolations from Art's review of the AE3000u and his comparisons to the Epson.

I am running my X10 on a 110" Da-Lite HCCV screen, the 1080UB I watched was on an approximately 100" matte white screen. I'm running the X10 with it's iris reduced to 36 and will base my comparisons to that. The 1080UB was calibrated and it's colors appeared slightly more saturated compared to the X10. The X10 does have better flesh tones and is more accurate. The X10 is noticeable sharper than the 1080UB (I have not seen a sharper 1080p projector). The X10 has no color uniformity or convergence issue (something I particularly dislike) where as the 1080UB had some noticeable fringing on text. The 1080UB has noticeably better blacks. Though with the iris settings the X10 isn't as far behind as one would think. The X10 is about equal in brightness to the 1080UB. According to the Projector Reviews comparison the Epson was brighter than the Panasonic AE3000u, which would make the X10 brighter as well. The Epson has slightly better blacks which would put the X10 closer to the Panasonic (though I have no doubt the Panasonic would still be better). The Epson is also slightly sharper than the Panasonic, which would also mean that the X10 is much sharper.

Again, unfortunately, I can't make a direct comparison. The original MSRP of the X10 put it in direct competition to the AE3000u. The AE3000u should have a better black level, has built in anamorphic, and has frame interpolation and frame tripling of 24p matieral. The X10 should be much sharper, be brighter, and have a little better out of the box color accuracy. The X10 will also not suffer an convergence or uniformity issues. Whether the Panasonic is a "step up" depends on which features you value and which elements of the overall picture are more important to you.

I bought the X10 because it's current pricing makes it an outstanding value. I did not expect to like it as much as the 1080UB I had been considering. But it's sharpness, color accuracy and lack of any misconvergence and uniformity really put it in the same league. Closing the iris makes the black level acceptable enough given it's other strengths.

The x10 is a great deal right now if you can fit it. I'm glad you are happy with yours. The OP was asking for any recommendations in the $2500 range.

While I was going to go with the IN83, I've decided to save a bit of money and go with the X10, provided it fits.

I have a fixed 105" 16:9 screen (movable yes, but would prefer not to by much if it can be helped). I have nearly 9' ceilings (they are 9' minus drywall). I currently have my 4805 at 15' back which still works for the X10. However, I'm trying to gauge the height as I know that's a problem sometimes with this one.

If the top of my screen is 22" from the ceiling, how high does the PJ have to be? Thanks.

Hi MidwestPJ,

The offset of the 4805 is 27% (of image height) and the offset of the X10 is 36%, so that works out to a difference of ~4.5" for a 105" (~51" high) screen. So you either need to raise the X10 4.5" versus the 4805, or drop your screen 4.5", or a combination of both.

If your screen is 22" from the ceiling, that means your 4805 must be around 8" from the ceiling based on its offset. You won't be able to get the X10's center of lens 3.5" from the ceiling, so you'll need to lower your screen slightly. About 5.5" is the closest to the ceiling you can get the X10's lens, so your screen will need to drop ~2" if you mount the X10 as close to the ceiling as possible.

If I were in your shoes I would leave the PJ mounting height alone, and drop the screen the full 4.5". Just a personal preference, but I prefer my eye height a little higher up the screen than what you have.

That's exactly what I was looking for, thank you!

Now I just need to figure out if the X10 can use the same mount as the 4805.

Now I just need to figure out if the X10 can use the same mount as the 4805.
If you are using a universal mount you'll probably be OK, but the mounting points of the 4805 and X10 are different, so if you are using a mount with a plate specific to the 4805 you'll need a new plate (or mount).

Also, the lens of the X10 is on the opposite side from the 4805, so you'll need to move your mount a little to the right to accomodate for that. Or you can move your screen a little to the left. Things can never be simple! :D

Looks like the screen is going to get shifted down and over a touch. You've been unbelievably helpful. Thank you.

No problem, glad to help. :) When you get the X10, let us know what you think. I think one of the areas of improvement you'll notice (among others) is noise level. The X10 is much quieter than the 4805.

And if you don't have one already, I'd recommend spending some of the money you saved by getting the X10 on a Bluray player. Move your seating up 3', put on a good Bluray, and a 480p PJ will be a distant memory. :D

No problem, glad to help. :) When you get the X10, let us know what you think. I think one of the areas of improvement you'll notice (among others) is noise level. The X10 is much quieter than the 4805.

And if you don't have one already, I'd recommend spending some of the money you saved by getting the X10 on a Bluray player. Move your seating up 3', put on a good Bluray, and a 480p PJ will be a distant memory. :D

Is it better to simply get a PS3 or a Bluray player?

Thanks for the great info X10 owners. My 4805 is in for light tunnel repairs so got me looking - and the X10 caught my eye. Thx JeffKB - I did not notice the lense on the other side - so looks like something would need to shift. I have 120" diagonal and would love to put something right where the old 4805 is now. I think the mount is about 17 feet back now. I just did screen goo on the wall - as big as I could get the 4805 to throw for the spot - and framed it up. I keep reading - need more distance with X10. I would not mind losing a couple inches - just not too much. If I can put it at the same distance - and still get 120 inch diag - I think we got a winner.

Is it better to simply get a PS3 or a Bluray player?
Hi Midwest PJ - sorry for not responding sooner, didn't notice the post. I would say the answer to that depends on whether you are a gamer or not. I am not, but bought the PS3 a ways back because at the time it was the only BD player I trusted to play all discs and have continuing firmware support/updates. Things have changed though, and standalone players have become pretty reliable as well now. I still have the PS3, but it was replaced in my HT by a Panny BD55, which has performed every bit as well.

If you aren't into gaming I would personally recommend a Panny or Sony BD player instead of the PS3. My main gripe with the PS3 was fan noise. It was in a semi-enclosed area and the noise was fairly noticeable. I also lived in fear of the fan going into jet airplane mode, which it only did on a few occasions, but pretty much made continued viewing impossible.

I keep reading - need more distance with X10. I would not mind losing a couple inches - just not too much. If I can put it at the same distance - and still get 120 inch diag - I think we got a winner.
Hi myHTheaven - X10 can throw a 120" diag image from ~16.5' min, so if you can do that (and accomodate the slightly bigger offset), you should be all set.

Thx JeffKB. It will be a month until I get my 4805 back from warranty repair. With that in mind - it may be time to make the 4805 the back up.