With the recent news that MLS will offer a "pricing schedule that will stagger" on the MFW-15...do you think this sub is worth a look, giving the recent amp issues?

I don't want to get into a discussion about the company or MLS, just your opinions on if you think this sub with the new amps are worth a try. I know from the reviews on here and elsewhere that a working MFW-15 is a helluva sub...just wondered if a too good to pass up price outweighs any potential risk with more amp issues...

With the recent news that MLS will offer a "pricing schedule that will stagger" on the MFW-15...do you think this sub is worth a look, giving the recent amp issues?

I don't want to get into a discussion about the company or MLS, just your opinions on if you think this sub with the new amps are worth a try. I know from the reviews on here and elsewhere that a working MFW-15 is a helluva sub...just wondered if a too good to pass up price outweighs any potential risk with more amp issues...


In my humble opinion no one knows how the new amp is going to hold up over time. That is one reason for the sale.

We don't have any more information than you do on the reliability of the new amp.

How low does the price have to be to be "too good to pass up"?

How low does the price have to be to be "too good to pass up"?

Well...for me, I would say anything below $499 might be hard to pass up (depending on shipping). Although $499 would not exactly be a no-brainer, especially since I can get the PB12-nsd for $549 plus shipping.

But, if the MFW-15 was priced at around $399, then I would have to say that it would be too good to pass up. That's how I feel right now anyway...

Well...for me, I would say anything below $499 might be hard to pass up (depending on shipping). Although $499 would not exactly be a no-brainer, especially since I can get the PB12-nsd for $549 plus shipping.

But, if the MFW-15 was priced at around $399, then I would have to say that it would be too good to pass up. That's how I feel right now anyway...


Best price I am aware of was $1087.50 shipped if you bought duals and did it using a 10% off gift certificate. Essentially you were paying $1200 for the pair shipped, minus 10%.

When the sh*t hit the fan, people may have gotten them even cheaper. Certainly some B-Stock went cheaper.

Also note that they redesigned the shipping carton to make it less expensive. IIRC, the current shipping carton is about shot by the time you get it.

Yeah...I've seen others post that they got the black satin for $499 plus shipping early on...I think the latest price was $699 plus shipping when they had them in stock. It will be interesting to see what price he comes up with...I've got to think he needs to be in the $499 range or lower if they want to sell them.

It has been awhile since I have been on the boards. I bought mine during the Xmas special and love it. I purchased this thing due to sheer price/performance for HT and have not been disappointed. My son and I cranked up Valkyrie 2 nights ago and the opening battle scene put cracks in the sheet rock.

Is there anything that performs at this level for less than $700 shipped? Leave out DIY and fugly subs with aligator finishes please.

Thanks,
JD

With the recent news that MLS will offer a "pricing schedule that will stagger" on the MFW-15...do you think this sub is worth a look, giving the recent amp issues?

I don't want to get into a discussion about the company or MLS, just your opinions on if you think this sub with the new amps are worth a try. I know from the reviews on here and elsewhere that a working MFW-15 is a helluva sub...just wondered if a too good to pass up price outweighs any potential risk with more amp issues...

I think the new amplifier boards should work out very well considering where they were sourced and built. I think they are worth considering at their off sale price and worth huge consideration during any sale when the sale includes them with the new amps installed.

I hope these new boards make them rock solid for years to come and I know even though I own two of them now I am considering a third for my bedroom HT a few months down the road.

Also note that they redesigned the shipping carton to make it less expensive. IIRC, the current shipping carton is about shot by the time you get it.

Agreed, neither of my boxes can be used again because the styro-foam fell apart. I think they should re-consider pricing and go back to using the foam from the original boxes, I'd prefer to spend a little more knowing the box and materials will hold up better.

New shipping and pricing up. ETA 6/30.

-$899 for dual MFW 15s in satin black Add $200 for veneers and diamond black. Add $300 for cherry and moho diamond veneers.

-$499 for single MFW 15 in satin black. Add $100 for veneers and diamond black finish. Add $200 for cherry and moho diamond veneers.

BTW Klipsch, nice job on the video of the UFW. Looks like you've got it cranking!

I have dual MFW-15 in the cherry finish from the first batch and all is good since April 2008. If you can get 2 MFW-15 with the new amps at anywhere near $1200 and the new amps are solid. Then I say go for it because the working MFW-15 at that price is none touchable from any other manufacturer.

The problem is no one knows how reliable the new amps would be. Their track record is not good here. The UFW's got new amps that also failed. Everyone hopes this time will be different, but there is a huge credibility gap that would keep me from plunking down $600 plus including shipping on a sub that still may have issues making any noise. This is a great opportunity to let someone else be the beta tester.

Then there is the stealing charity money issue that IMHO can not be left completely out of the buying decision. You have to have some standards on who you do business with and who you will support financially. Would you buy a pie from a KKK bake sale because you heard it was darn good pie and the best value in town? I guess everyone has to make their own decisions on where they fall in the tug of war between audio value and moral values, but to just pretend the issue does not exist is silly.

New shipping and pricing up. ETA 6/30.

-$899 for dual MFW 15s in satin black Add $200 for veneers and diamond black. Add $300 for cherry and moho diamond veneers.

-$499 for single MFW 15 in satin black. Add $100 for veneers and diamond black finish. Add $200 for cherry and moho diamond veneers.

Good grief, $799.00 for 2 B stock black MFW's that's just insane. My 2 MFW's are B stock Moho Rosa Satin, you can't find a blemish on them!


BTW Klipsch, nice job on the video of the UFW. Looks like you've got it cranking!

Thanks, amazing how having it set up right can help. I want to do another video using my good video camera, just have to take the time to do it. :)

So....$630 shipped for an A-stock satin black MFW (with a slightly bruised reputation) or $610 for an A-stock PB12-nsd...decisions, decisions. MLS could have made it easier with a little more discount...oh well.

So....$630 shipped for an A-stock satin black MFW (with a slightly bruised reputation) or $610 for an A-stock PB12-nsd...decisions, decisions. MLS could have made it easier with a little more discount...oh well.

So thats like Mike Tyson in his heyday, against Sugar Ray in his...

No brainer.

So thats like Mike Tyson in his heyday, against Sugar Ray in his...

No brainer.

Good analogy...the problem with that one for me is Sugar Ray was my all time favorite...

Good analogy...the problem with that one for me is Sugar Ray was my all time favorite...

Better analogy would be post ear biting Tyson verses Sugar Ray.

I have owned the pb-12 and my buddy has the MFW-15 (no amp issues thank goodness) so I think I can be non bias when I say the MFW is in another league. The pb-12 is great but fails to have the impact that the MFW does. I'm a DIY guy now so I have allegiances to either company. If I remember right the finish on my A stock pb-12 wasn't exactly breathtaking.

There's no doubt a working MFW-15 blows away the PB-12. The doubt comes from whether or not your MFW will be one that works, and for how long.

If the new board supposedly shipping late June does not solve the problems, how long before there is another fix, or will there even be another?

For the current prices I think it's worth the risk. The percentage of amps that went wrong in the problem batch was still under 15% if I remember right. So I think it might be worth the risk.

I'll be honest. $630 shipped isn't a bad price but I wouldn't call it a staggering one. I am very tempted to go B-stock duals in Rocket Rosewood.

If these were shipping today I would probably do it but I'm a bit uneasy at the June 30th date. I think it would have been a smarter move to delay this sale until the subs were actually shipping.

For the current prices I think it's worth the risk. The percentage of amps that went wrong in the problem batch was still under 15% if I remember right. So I think it might be worth the risk.

MLS said 30% Doug Goldberg admitted up to 50%. Just FYI.

Thanks for the correction. My mistake.

So.... Kick @SS sub that may have issues but cannot be beat for the price. My question is has anyone had a problem getting their amp replaced when it does die?

I have not followed but see the AV123 subwoofer thread is closed. If things have not changed they come with a 3 year warranty which is good enough for me. I just need to know that they will send out a replacement amp if required. As long as the customer service is good I will likely get a second during this deal.

JD

So.... Kick @SS sub that may have issues but cannot be beat for the price. My question is has anyone had a problem getting their amp replaced when it does die?

I have not followed but see the AV123 subwoofer thread is closed. If things have not changed they come with a 3 year warranty which is good enough for me. I just need to know that they will send out a replacement amp if required. As long as the customer service is good I will likely get a second during this deal.

JD

Depends upon your definition of "problem". So far as I know, no one with a warranty has been denied a replacement amplifier. The question lies in how often, how long it took and the questions on if the new board will in fact cure all the issues. Obviously all involved hope for the best with the new board and I have heard of only a few people that fell through the cracks when the amps (previous version) were in stock. The shipping of the replacement (s) was free of charge to the customer and the replacement process went smoothly enough for most. A few exceptions arose to that, but for the most part that was the norm.

Now, I have gone through 5 amp's between my two subs in 7ish months of ownership and had a cumulative down time of a couple of months while awaiting replacements (again, out of 7 months). That presents itself to be a problem for me, but may not be an issue for you. Additionally, if the new module does indeed cure the dead amp issue, or at least seriously curtail it to a reasonable level, this may not even be an issue going forward. The risk involved is known and is for each person to weigh on their own.

The sub's still appear to have the 3 year warranty on new items.

So.... Kick @SS sub that may have issues but cannot be beat for the price. My question is has anyone had a problem getting their amp replaced when it does die?

The new amps just came out so this question will be a question for another few weeks at minimum. We'll have to wait and see how the new ones hold up. As Snowmanick says they have always sent out replacements so I can't see that changing anytime soon.

The price for a pair of satin black MFWs has me tempted, but I would need the AV123 forum reopened before I would buy them. There has been too much silence, too much secrecy of late with the company. I want to read the feedback of others concerning all the issues that have come to ruin the reputation of a once fine company, not just a few "read-only" posts from the head guy. When they can show through forum participation that all is well again then I may decide to once again become a customer.

I am on the fence with buying a SVS-PB12, and would buy a MFW-15 if I could have confidence in the product. Sub performance is irrelevant to me if reliability is not there.

Does the MFW-15 use a class D amp? Honetly, I am not exactly sure of what a Class D amp is...i just constantly read that it is a desirable thing to have in your sub.

i've had teh MFW15 for almost a year and have had no problems (except the hum, which i can't hear when the movie is playing anyway). $499 for this sub, wow. this sub is a beast. i had the svs pb10 before the mfw15. their is no comparison. the mfw roars. this sucker really slams during movies. if it has amp issues with some people, ok. i dunno what they are because i haven't been keeping up with the sub world for the past year.

Then there is the stealing charity money issue that IMHO can not be left completely out of the buying decision..

who cares. if they make a great sub, then whatever. using an analogy of the KKK - which lynched, murdered minorities - is retarded and dishonest.

who cares. if they make a great sub, then whatever. using an analogy of the KKK - which lynched, murdered minorities - is retarded and dishonest.

Are we trying to get this closed?

With the recent news that MLS will offer a "pricing schedule that will stagger" on the MFW-15...do you think this sub is worth a look, giving the recent amp issues?

I don't want to get into a discussion about the company or MLS, just your opinions on if you think this sub with the new amps are worth a try. I know from the reviews on here and elsewhere that a working MFW-15 is a helluva sub...just wondered if a too good to pass up price outweighs any potential risk with more amp issues...

Without a doubt its worth taking a chance. I am gonna jump on the offer and get a second one. I recently purchase a Sentinel to paired with my MFW-15 but it was no match in output and articulation. You will be pleasantly surprise not only by its bass ouput, but how clean and detail its bass is. Good luck.

who cares. if they make a great sub, then whatever. using an analogy of the KKK - which lynched, murdered minorities - is retarded and dishonest.

No, you are the one who is mentally challenged. The point was we all SHOULD have some moral compass that places limits on how far we will go to get a deal.

Would you buy a sub from the KKK?

How about a child molester?

How about a sub you know was stolen?

How about a sub from a guy who stole from charities?

Somewhere you must have limits, unless you have no morals yourself.

Matt you really need to forgive, forget and move on, or your hate is going to consume you. The KKK come on that is just RIDICULOUS.

Good grief, $799.00 for 2 B stock black MFW's that's just insane. My 2 MFW's are B stock Moho Rosa Satin, you can't find a blemish on them!



Thanks, amazing how having it set up right can help. I want to do another video using my good video camera, just have to take the time to do it. :)

Yeah....that's mighty tempting on duals. $800 (actually less for me since I already have one MFW) for that kind of extension and output...well, pretty amazing.

I've got a cherry diamond already. It's very, very nice. Just wondering if I'd be happy with one in satin black since it wouldn't match. Diamond black might look pretty good, though.

Klipsch, I know you've got yours set up as L/R. Did you try stacking them? IF I do this, I'd put one in the front, and one parallel to the rear seating area. That way it wouldn't really matter if they didn't match. But, that may cause some room anomalies.

Hope to see your new video.:D

I am on the fence with buying a SVS-PB12, and would buy a MFW-15 if I could have confidence in the product. Sub performance is irrelevant to me if reliability is not there.

Does the MFW-15 use a class D amp? Honetly, I am not exactly sure of what a Class D amp is...i just constantly read that it is a desirable thing to have in your sub.

Not sure it matters what "class" the amps are (Not sure, but I believe it's AB, btw). Doug Goldberg did the redesign. He's rock solid as far as design work. From the pics I've seen, the new amp looks much better, but I'm not an EE.

Matt you really need to forgive, forget and move on, or your hate is going to consume you. The KKK come on that is just RIDICULOUS.

You must be a complete moron if you don't get it. There SHOULD be a line no one is willing to cross, and the KKK was supposed to be an example far enough out that even the MLS lovers would not cross. So you admit you would not buy from the clan, but you would from MLS?

Nothing wrong with collecting money for charity and keeping it yourself? Nothing wrong with everything else MLS has done?

Where do you draw the line? What crimes are OK and which ones are RIDICULOUS?

What did he ever do for you that you would keep supporting him, keep pitching his company and products and keep giving him money? It amazes me that so many people can ignore all the bad things and think that he is still a good guy and running a good company.

Matt you really need to forgive,

Oh, and before I forgive, Mark needs to 1) Admit his sins, 2) SINCERELY apologize, and 3) demonstrate that he has learned from his mistakes and deserves forgiveness.

His "I made mistakes but I am making it all up to you" posts don't cut it. Those come off more as an attempt to sweep the issues under the rug and move on without taking any real responsibility.

Not sure it matters what "class" the amps are (Not sure, but I believe it's AB, btw). Doug Goldberg did the redesign. He's rock solid as far as design work. From the pics I've seen, the new amp looks much better, but I'm not an EE.

In an effort to keep the thread on track...I don't think it has been definitively answered as to whether or not the MFW A-stocks on sale right now have the new amp or not...or has this been determined? I would feel much better about taking the chance on the new amp, rather than the old amp with a new amp in waiting should it fail...

I guess I can just call them today and ask and post what I find out...

Snowmanick,
Thanks for the reply. That is really bad luck losing 5 amps in 7 months. You using these in a commercial venue? How big is your room?

Snowmanick,
Thanks for the reply. That is really bad luck losing 5 amps in 7 months. You using these in a commercial venue? How big is your room?

It's really bad something but I am not sure how much luck factors in to it. The subs were originally used in my 4,200 cubic foot great room (large but not all that large) at medium to moderate levels. After a couple/few amps died I moved them out of my living room and into a second system that is very rarely used. The Last two amps that died, died when they were in stand-by mode, not being played. Just pop...hmmmmmmmmmm.....One of them also had a bad controller that needed replacing (two weeks after receiving it, but this was a low occurrence issue) and is now waiting to be replaced entirely as the Rocket Rosewood veneer has numerous fissures that started to develop when the sub was 3 months old.

I have switched to a SVS PB13-Ultra for my living room (better in every way IMHO, and reliable) and plan on selling the MFW's once they are repaired. I hope for everyone's sake that the issues will be resolved and the new amps are as solid as a rock but time will bear that out.

In an effort to keep the thread on track...I don't think it has been definitively answered as to whether or not the MFW A-stocks on sale right now have the new amp or not...or has this been determined? I would feel much better about taking the chance on the new amp, rather than the old amp with a new amp in waiting should it fail...

I guess I can just call them today and ask and post what I find out...

New MFWs=new amp design. This is what has taken so long, and why they were off the market for so long.

Yup...just heard from Jess. Every unit will have new amplifier and board.

what's MLS' new email? is it still the one with .mac at the end?

I am on the fence with buying a SVS-PB12, and would buy a MFW-15 if I could have confidence in the product. Sub performance is irrelevant to me if reliability is not there.

Does the MFW-15 use a class D amp? Honetly, I am not exactly sure of what a Class D amp is...i just constantly read that it is a desirable thing to have in your sub.

Two things. At this point, potential MFW buyers are being asked to take a leap of faith that the amp issue(s) have been solved. No matter what AV123 is saying, until the new amps have been field tested for at least 6 months, we don't know how real world use is going to go.

Second, class D amps are switching amps. The amps in most receivers and power amps are class A/B. BASH makes some of the best class D amps, and ICE amps are probably even better than BASH.

Switching amps can be smaller, lighter and run a bit cooler than class A/B. Seems to me that when it comes to the MFW it doesn't matter whether it is class D or not. The question is, have they finally designed and are producing a reliable amp that should easily last more than the 3 year warranty without any more changes, delays, wide-spread problems of any kind with the "new" amp.

Yup...just heard from Jess. Every unit will have new amplifier and board.

Including B-stock?

Including B-stock?

Pretty sure it's "b-stock", too that includes the new amps. But, I'd call Jess or Kyle just to make sure.

Including B-stock?

Pretty sure it's "b-stock", too that includes the new amps. But, I'd call Jess or Kyle just to make sure.

I just place an order for a B-stock and I think it was Jess that took my order. He said the B-stock will have the new amp. They will start shipping on June 28th and my CC will not be charged till then. Total shipped for the Satin Black is $579, $130 of that being shipping.

MLS just posted over there and he said EVERY MFW-15 being offered for sale will have the new amp.

I have switched to a SVS PB13-Ultra for my living room (better in every way IMHO, and reliable) and plan on selling the MFW's once they are repaired. I hope for everyone's sake that thee issues will be resolved and the new amps are as solid as a rock but time will bear there out.

I would agree, the PB13-Ultra is an excellent product and it can outperform dual MFW-15's.

JD

Anyone have a pic of Rocket Rosewood?

Anyone have a pic of Rocket Rosewood?

I assume you mean on the sub? (remove spaces to use URL)

http://forums.av 123 .com/showthread.php?t=40946&highlight=rosewood

Yeah....that's mighty tempting on duals. $800 (actually less for me since I already have one MFW) for that kind of extension and output...well, pretty amazing.

I've got a cherry diamond already. It's very, very nice. Just wondering if I'd be happy with one in satin black since it wouldn't match. Diamond black might look pretty good, though.

Klipsch, I know you've got yours set up as L/R. Did you try stacking them? IF I do this, I'd put one in the front, and one parallel to the rear seating area. That way it wouldn't really matter if they didn't match. But, that may cause some room anomalies.

Hope to see your new video.:D

You have to go matching diamond cherry! Even if you hide one now later down the road you may want to show them both off. :D

I tried stacking them, the wife had a fit to end all fits. I'm going to move everything out a little and try them directly to the left and right of the entertainment system and move the RF-82's to the outside of the subs and then see how this does.

I'm going to shoot the video tonight, this video camera should pick up most of the audio range as well. :)

I would agree, the PB13-Ultra is an excellent product and it can outperform dual MFW-15's.

JD

One PB13-Ultra out performing dual MFW's? Really, where was this shown? The review I saw showed dual MFW's kicking some serious booty, including beating the PB13-Ultra, maybe I'm wrong and I love the Ultra, prior to buying MFW's I wanted one in the worst way.

One PB13-Ultra out performing dual MFW's? Really, where was this shown? The review I saw showed dual MFW's kicking some serious booty, including beating the PB13-Ultra, maybe I'm wrong and I love the Ultra, prior to buying MFW's I wanted one in the worst way.

From the Official Craigsub rankings thread:

Elemental Designs A7-900 ($2200 ID/SI): 116 points (63-53)
Epik Conquest ($1599 ID): 112 points (60-52)
SVS PB13-Ultra ($1499 ID): 109 points (57-52)
Epik Castle ($999 ID): 109 points (59-50)
AV123 MFW-15 Duals: 109 points (56-53) (note, duals were tested as duals are offered as a package)

From the Official Craigsub rankings thread:

Elemental Designs A7-900 ($2200 ID/SI): 116 points (63-53)
Epik Conquest ($1599 ID): 112 points (60-52)
SVS PB13-Ultra ($1499 ID): 109 points (57-52)
Epik Castle ($999 ID): 109 points (59-50)
AV123 MFW-15 Duals: 109 points (56-53) (note, duals were tested as duals are offered as a package)

Doesn't that indicate a tie?

I just place an order for a B-stock and I think it was Jess that took my order. He said the B-stock will have the new amp. They will start shipping on June 28th and my CC will not be charged till then. Total shipped for the Satin Black is $579, $130 of that being shipping.

MLS just posted over there and he said EVERY MFW-15 being offered for sale will have the new amp.

I just did the same. I've been waiting for a good deal to upgrade my sub...this was too good to pass up.

The MFW-15 seems to be the best bang for the buck if you consider craigslist rankings and the price ($630 shipped for Satin black A-stock). MLS has been a pleasure to deal with and I have 4 Rocket 450s which have been outstanding.

I think I'll take a chance, given that he has really staked his reputation on the line with the new amps/boards.


I don't think you can get more quality sound per dollar at any price right now than this current deal.

The MFW-15 seems to be the best bang for the buck if you consider craigslist rankings and the price ($630 shipped for Satin black A-stock......

Sorry for the correction but it's Craigsub not Craigslist.

I would completely agree that this new pricing is the best bang for buck sub out there if the amp issues are taken care of. I plan on buying a b-stock satin black MFW-15 after I take the family to Disneyland this summer. Hopefully there will be some new amp subs out in the market so I can get a good idea if they hold up.

Anyone have a pic of Rocket Rosewood?

Klipschead's avatar is the Rosewood, I believe.

Klipschead's avatar is the Rosewood, I believe.I believe that's cherry, actually.

I believe that's cherry, actually.

Moho Rosa according to one of his previous posts - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16538325&highlight=#post16538325

Edit - actually that's what he has - as to what his avatar pic is, you're right, could be cherry

Doesn't that indicate a tie?

Craigsubs rankings do show them pretty much in a dead heat but you have to take into consideration the complexities involved with, and the additional work of, properly integrating dual's into your system. It is much easier to integrate a single sub and make the proper room corrections than it is to set up dual's. Also remember that the PB13-Ultra has built in room compensation control that the MFW's do not.

There is no doubt that dual MFW-15's can pressurize even some of the largest of residential spaces but you have to give kudo's to a single 13" design of fairly small proportions that can flat out hang with the big boys.

SVS has done an excellent job with the PB13-Ultra. The MFW-15 affords most people the opportunity to experience excellent bass performance at a reasonable price (amp issues aside).

JD

Well I ordered a pair of B-stock Rosewoods. Hopefully they will be as good as I hope.

Well I ordered a pair of B-stock Rosewoods. Hopefully they will be as good as I hope.

Was there any break on shipping for two? Or did it cost twice the shipping of one?

It is sad that anyone has to ask if ANY MFW being sold now still has the old amp.

With a failure rate of 30%, the last batch of MFWs should have been held off the market shortly after AV123 started replacing bunches of amps on a regular basis. Maybe 3-4 months ago.

Was there any break on shipping for two? Or did it cost twice the shipping of one?

If you call them they will try and see what options you have. You might be able to pick up the subs from a nearby freight center for a reduced cost. They didn't offer me reduced shipping but I didn't ask either. I don't really like haggling and really they should be giving the same price to all their customers.

If you call them they will try and see what options you have. You might be able to pick up the subs from a nearby freight center for a reduced cost. They didn't offer me reduced shipping but I didn't ask either. I don't really like haggling and really they should be giving the same price to all their customers.

Thanks. I was just wondering. I'm not going to get two. It doesn't fit in the budget anyways and I don't think I'll need a second one. Just curious. I think if I bought two I'd be even more in dutch with the wife.

How would duals do in a 6000+ cu ft room (18w x 28l x 8 to 12 h with peak down center)?

Bill

How would duals do in a 6000+ cu ft room (18w x 28l x 8 to 12 h with peak down center)?

Bill

Wow..that is a large space. I have no idea...might want to go with dual SVS Ultra13s in that space.

You could call AV123 up and see what they say...

Wow..that is a large space. I have no idea...might want to go with dual SVS Ultra13s in that space.

You could call AV123 up and see what they say...

Right now I'm getting a good bang with dual HSU 3.3's in MO mode with dual MBM-12's. Just looking for more grunt on the lower end.

Bill

So.... Kick @SS sub that may have issues but cannot be beat for the price. My question is has anyone had a problem getting their amp replaced when it does die?
JD

I had a UFW-10 that had a lot of amp problems. The first amp died a few months before the warranty expired and got replaced. Then the new amp (the one that got a lot written about being so incredible) had to be replaced a couple of months after the speaker warranty expired and they said it would be no problem and would be covered. So other then waiting for the replacement, they were great about the whole thing.

I'm putting duals in a 1050 cu ft room :)

rocket system too :)

Anybody seen any posted freq vs spl chart on the MFW-15?

Bill

Just ordered an A-stock in Satin Black...fingers crossed for on-time delivery and advertised performance.

Anybody seen any posted freq vs spl chart on the MFW-15?

Bill

It's not from the manufacturer, but from Craigsubs test...

Link (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40617&page=2)

From the Official Craigsub rankings thread:

Elemental Designs A7-900 ($2200 ID/SI): 116 points (63-53)
Epik Conquest ($1599 ID): 112 points (60-52)
SVS PB13-Ultra ($1499 ID): 109 points (57-52)
Epik Castle ($999 ID): 109 points (59-50)
AV123 MFW-15 Duals: 109 points (56-53) (note, duals were tested as duals are offered as a package)

109 to 109... I guess I'm reading it wrong, either way, the Ultra is a heck of a sub and I would love to have duals of it as well. The more the better! :D

Klipschead's avatar is the Rosewood, I believe.

Moho Rosa Satin :D It does resemble Cherry a little in the avatar though, but I'm sure side by side the difference would really show.

Craigsubs rankings do show them pretty much in a dead heat but you have to take into consideration the complexities involved with, and the additional work of, properly integrating dual's into your system. It is much easier to integrate a single sub and make the proper room corrections than it is to set up dual's. Also remember that the PB13-Ultra has built in room compensation control that the MFW's do not.

There is no doubt that dual MFW-15's can pressurize even some of the largest of residential spaces but you have to give kudo's to a single 13" design of fairly small proportions that can flat out hang with the big boys.

SVS has done an excellent job with the PB13-Ultra. The MFW-15 affords most people the opportunity to experience excellent bass performance at a reasonable price (amp issues aside).

JD

On the other hand dual subs reduce localization and room nulls. :D

Craigsubs rankings do show them pretty much in a dead heat but you have to take into consideration the complexities involved with, and the additional work of, properly integrating dual's into your system. It is much easier to integrate a single sub and make the proper room corrections than it is to set up dual's. Also remember that the PB13-Ultra has built in room compensation control that the MFW's do not.

There is no doubt that dual MFW-15's can pressurize even some of the largest of residential spaces but you have to give kudo's to a single 13" design of fairly small proportions that can flat out hang with the big boys.

SVS has done an excellent job with the PB13-Ultra. The MFW-15 affords most people the opportunity to experience excellent bass performance at a reasonable price (amp issues aside).

JD

Agreed 100%, integrating dual MFW's has not been easy but it sure was worth the effort!

...on Wednesday night. Like everyone else said who just took advantage of the new pricing hopefully there will not be any issues with this batch of MFW's.
I have a UFW-10 subwoofer that performed flawlessly for me for two years.
However I always felt that it was somewhat underpowered.
While the amp never failed me I sent it back to av123 at my own expense to have upgraded to the newer more powerful amp. I sent it back to them last June and didn't receive it back until September. I will say the UFW-10 with the new amp is definitely more powerful sounding.
Earlier this year my friend lent me an Outlaw LFM-1 he had sitting around his house he was not using. It is a much bigger box containing a down firing 12" woofer. Definitely more powerful than my little UFW-10. I love it on movies but think its only so-so on music. From the extensive reading I have done on the MFW-15 I think it will be excellent in both home theater and music.
Anyway I'm looking forward very much to getting the gorgeous diamond black finish on my new MFW-15! :D :D :D

...on Wednesday night. Like everyone else said who just took advantage of the new pricing hopefully there will not be any issues with this batch of MFW's.
I have a UFW-10 subwoofer that performed flawlessly for me for two years.
However I always felt that it was somewhat underpowered.
While the amp never failed me I sent it back to av123 at my own expense to have upgraded to the newer more powerful amp. I sent it back to them last June and didn't receive it back until September. I will say the UFW-10 with the new amp is definitely more powerful sounding.
Earlier this year my friend lent me an Outlaw LFM-1 he had sitting around his house he was not using. It is a much bigger box containing a down firing 12" woofer. Definitely more powerful than my little UFW-10. I love it on movies but think its only so-so on music. From the extensive reading I have done on the MFW-15 I think it will be excellent in both home theater and music.
Anyway I'm looking forward very much to getting the gorgeous diamond black finish on my new MFW-15! :D :D :D

I really do love that piano black diamond. Dual MFWs are on my upgrade list. And yes, both music and movies play very well through the MFW 15s.

If you're a John Mayer fan, pick up his live BD. He plays part of the concert as a trio. Listen to the music coming from the bass player....very musical. WOTW, the MFW hits low and is visceral in the pod scene.

So, it is very musical and very visceral at the same time.

I've measured -3b right around the 15 Hz level with room loading.

Agreed 100%, integrating dual MFW's has not been easy but it sure was worth the effort!

Klipsch.....do you have some sort of EQ you used in your dual set up? If so, which one?

I just took readings with an SPL meter while trying different placements to set mine up.

If I go the "dual" route, I'll probably not stack them. But, shoving two of them around the room is going to take some time. Looking for a little insight as to how you came to the setup you ended up with.

How's your UFW doing, btw?

Moho Rosa Satin :D It does resemble Cherry a little in the avatar though, but I'm sure side by side the difference would really show.

Not a very good pic, but here's one of my diamond cherry finish.

Klipsch.....do you have some sort of EQ you used in your dual set up? If so, which one?

I just took readings with an SPL meter while trying different placements to set mine up.

If I go the "dual" route, I'll probably not stack them. But, shoving two of them around the room is going to take some time. Looking for a little insight as to how you came to the setup you ended up with.

How's your UFW doing, btw?

I have thought about going with an EQ but haven't decided yet. The placement I came up with was sitting at each listening location and deciding on making it sound best at mine and my wife's location and the third location is a little weaker but much stronger than it was with a single MFW.

I had a big issue with a null in that position, now it's much better but there are still nulls in other parts of the room. So, one day I hope to have someone who really knows his stuff come over and help me really dial it in. I have written Mark Seaton but he never responded.

Anyway, for where the wife and I sit the sound is unbelievable. :)

Not a very good pic, but here's one of my diamond cherry finish.

Very nice! I thought about the diamond finish for mine but they didn't have any in stock.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=144050&d=1243777256.jpg

does anyone have a link to a page that has all the different finishes on it? i searched the site, but either my search skills aren't up to par, or it doesn't exist there...

thanks!

does anyone have a link to a page that has all the different finishes on it? i searched the site, but either my search skills aren't up to par, or it doesn't exist there...

thanks!

Chris....good to see you over here. I'll drop you a PM.

Very nice! I thought about the diamond finish for mine but they didn't have any in stock.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=144050&d=1243777256.jpg

Klipsch.....the picture doesn't really do it justice. It's actually a lighter cherry. But, the diamond finish is very nice. Still thinking of mixing finishes because I suspect I'm going to put them in different places in my HT. Kind of leaning towards piano black diamond.

Klipsch.....the picture doesn't really do it justice. It's actually a lighter cherry. But, the diamond finish is very nice. Still thinking of mixing finishes because I suspect I'm going to put them in different places in my HT. Kind of leaning towards piano black diamond.

Piano black diamond would look awesome, but wouldn't dust show very quickly? My house shows dust 10 mins after cleaning...

Chris....here are the colors without the diamond finish. I don't think they've got cherry diamond listed on the WEB site, but that's what mine is. Looks pretty close to Moho.

From top to bottom on the attachment....

-Moho
-Natural
-Satin Black

Suffice to say, they look better in person than in pictures.

Piano black diamond would look awesome, but wouldn't dust show very quickly? My house shows dust 10 mins after cleaning...

Yeah...probably would show dust. But, I can go in a couple of directions. My woodwork is all cherry. But, my equipment is all piano black finish.

You don't have a pic of your set up that you can post for ccotenj, do you?

Yeah...probably would show dust. But, I can go in a couple of directions. My woodwork is all cherry. But, my equipment is all piano black finish.

You don't have a pic of your set up that you can post for ccotenj, do you?

Here ya go. :)

http://radiofun.homestead.com/P1010958.JPG

http://radiofun.homestead.com/P1010955.JPG

http://radiofun.homestead.com/P1010940.JPG

Here ya go. :)

http://radiofun.homestead.com/P1010958.JPG

http://radiofun.homestead.com/P1010955.JPG

http://radiofun.homestead.com/P1010940.JPG

Man....do I ever love seeing that '50s era TV:D

Chris....good to see you over here. I'll drop you a PM.

thanks...

you knew you'd get me sucked in sooner or later... ;)

LOL! when i saw that first pic, i was like "wow, i haven't seen one of those tv's in a long time!"... then i thought, "wow, he really needs a display upgrade"... :p

thanks for the pics. does the tv still work?

I have thought about going with an EQ but haven't decided yet. The placement I came up with was sitting at each listening location and deciding on making it sound best at mine and my wife's location and the third location is a little weaker but much stronger than it was with a single MFW.

I had a big issue with a null in that position, now it's much better but there are still nulls in other parts of the room. So, one day I hope to have someone who really knows his stuff come over and help me really dial it in. I have written Mark Seaton but he never responded.

Anyway, for where the wife and I sit the sound is unbelievable. :)

Last time I saw anything in writing, Mark Seaton can make himself available to come to your house with his laptop, microphones, etc., to equalize your subwoofer(s). IIRC, he charges for air fare, and a hefty amount per hour for the time it takes him to get things EQ'd as well as possible.

Not only that, there is the cost of an equalizer. (You just can't get the same results by moving things around). Mark likes the DSP 30:

http://www.qscaudio.com/products/dsp/dsp30/dsp30.htm

especially with the Submersive. Right now it seems like the DSP 30 is running around $590. But for people on a smaller budget, Mark can work with virtually any equalizer, (including the BFD) which is only $100.

Instead of the DSP 30, for a couple hundred more, people should consider the SVS EQ, which can handle 2 subs independently and doesn't require knowing how to use software such as REW.

People can still pre-order the SVS EQ1 for $699.

LOL! when i saw that first pic, i was like "wow, i haven't seen one of those tv's in a long time!"... then i thought, "wow, he really needs a display upgrade"... :p

thanks for the pics. does the tv still work?

Yep, the TV still works! The wife and I watch old Honeymooner and Twilight Zone episodes on it.

Chris....just took a couple of better pictures of the finishes in my HT.

First one is a better shot of the MFW. 2nd attachment is my center channel Rocket in Rosewood.

Last time I saw anything in writing, Mark Seaton can make himself available to come to your house with his laptop, microphones, etc., to equalize your subwoofer(s). IIRC, he charges for air fare, and a hefty amount per hour for the time it takes him to get things EQ'd as well as possible.

Not only that, there is the cost of an equalizer. (You just can't get the same results by moving things around). Mark likes the DSP 30:

http://www.qscaudio.com/products/dsp/dsp30/dsp30.htm

especially with the Submersive. Right now it seems like the DSP 30 is running around $590. But for people on a smaller budget, Mark can work with virtually any equalizer, (including the BFD) which is only $100.

Instead of the DSP 30, for a couple hundred more, people should consider the SVS EQ, which can handle 2 subs independently and doesn't require knowing how to use software such as REW.

People can still pre-order the SVS EQ1 for $699.

I PM'd him and emailed him, we both live in the same area so that part is easy. If he's too busy he's too busy, I'm not disparaging him but a response would be nice.

Chris....just took a couple of better pictures of the finishes in my HT.

First one is a better shot of the MFW. 2nd attachment is my center channel Rocket in Rosewood.

Fixed. :D VERY nice!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=144068&d=1243788060.jpg

I have been trying to buy this center but they dropped it. :(

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=144069&d=1243788060.jpg

Don't forget thos MFW-15s will all have a 3 year parts and labor warranty, just like they did before

Fixed. :D VERY nice!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=144068&d=1243788060.jpg

I have been trying to buy this center but they dropped it. :(

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=144069&d=1243788060.jpg

Klipsch....that center is an RSC200. They still sell it. It's a beast.

I also have the RSC100 (which I upgraded to the 200). That's the one that they retired. Still have mine. Still works great. It's in the bullpen for a 2nd HT room I'm planning.

Klipsch....that center is an RSC200. They still sell it. It's a beast.

I also have the RSC100 (which I upgraded to the 200). That's the one that they retired. Still have mine. Still works great. It's in the bullpen for a 2nd HT room I'm planning.

graphicguy,

Sorry, I meant the surrounds, they only use bookselfs or the mid towers now instead of the surrounds they used to sell. I gots confused... :o

Klipsch....no problem.

If you're really interested in the RSS surrounds, I'd give them a call. They may have some hanging around. They're very good!

Klipsch....no problem.

If you're really interested in the RSS surrounds, I'd give them a call. They may have some hanging around. They're very good!

I tried, I even asked Kyle to check Mark's trunk, nothing found anywhere. I'm going to keep at them though, you never know when a pair might show up.

Glad to see people are buying the subs still. Even with some of the haters out there comparing MLS to the KKK, (RIDICULOUS), I do not want to see AV123 shut down. I have faith they are correcting their mistakes like they should.
I hope everyone posts their impressions once their subs arrive. Time to get back to discussion of audio like it's supposed to be. :)

Glad to see people are buying the subs still. Even with some of the haters out there comparing MLS to the KKK, (RIDICULOUS), I do not want to see AV123 shut down. I have faith they are correcting their mistakes like they should.
I hope everyone posts their impressions once their subs arrive. Time to get back to discussion of audio like it's supposed to be. :)

Audio is good on my MFW as it is. Actually, it's great!

AV123 isn't going anywhere. Give them a jingle and find out.

Spoke to Suzanne at AV123 last week. She said orders were "brisk" on the MFW since it's been put back on the market.

I tried, I even asked Kyle to check Mark's trunk, nothing found anywhere. I'm going to keep at them though, you never know when a pair might show up.

Just curious, what are you running as surrounds now? Klipsch? Bi-pole? Di-pole?

A friend of mine has an all RF series of Klipsch in his HT. I just helped him move it and set it up again this weekend. His surrounds are some monster bi-poles that are timbre matched to his fronts. Pretty nice set up....except he's got an old Denon AVR. I have to take my SPL meter and tape measure to set them up "the old fashioned" way.

Just curious, what are you running as surrounds now? Klipsch? Bi-pole? Di-pole?

A friend of mine has an all RF series of Klipsch in his HT. I just helped him move it and set it up again this weekend. His surrounds are some monster bi-poles that are timbre matched to his fronts. Pretty nice set up....except he's got an old Denon AVR. I have to take my SPL meter and tape measure to set them up "the old fashioned" way.

I have 3 RF-42's in the back, I'd love to use the RS-62's but they are huge! I set my AVR the old fashioned way via tape and meter. I just don't like how Audyssey set it up.

The center RS-42 is set up as single combined channel and I'm glad I added it.

http://radiofun.homestead.com/P1010854.JPG

I have 3 RF-42's in the back, I'd love to use the RS-62's but they are huge! I set my AVR the old fashioned way via tape and meter. I just don't like how Audyssey set it up.

The center RS-42 is set up as single combined channel and I'm glad I added it.

http://radiofun.homestead.com/P1010854.JPG

Must have been the RS-62s my friend has, as they are huge.....and heavy....and he was absolutely no help as I was mounting them to the wall.:eek:

Nice set up, btw!:D

Like your MacBook (as a fellow MacBook owner).

Must have been the RS-62s my friend has, as they are huge.....and heavy....and he was absolutely no help as I was mounting them to the wall.:eek:

Nice set up, btw!:D

Like your MacBook (as a fellow MacBook owner).

I wanted the RS-62's but they are so damn big! If I had the couch out from the wall in a bigger room I would have bought them, the 42's fit perfectly for my small room.

As for the Mac, I have a love hate relationship with it.

I too just took the plunge since it was $100 less than when I looked the last time. Granted that was also before I heard about all of this. At the same price as an SVS PB12-NSD, I figure I'll give it a shot. If it doesn't work out, I'm not on the street and can always return it within 45 days. My first powered sub, I hope I love it.

I fear I'm going to need new speakers though to run with it. Those rockets don't look too bad, and are cheaper than I expected them to be when looking at the site. Given that they are ID, they probably run with much higher dollar speakers that I'm probably used to @ B&M's. Could you compare them to anything, say some Def Techs or Kef's? I have a set of 04 Kef Q1's I've been using forever with an older Kef Reference Center. I recently bought a pair of Polk Monitor 50's for like $180 on sale just to get some more speakers into the room. They really aren't terrible for what I paid for them but I know the quality isn't quite up to where I want it to be. Eventually I need to invest a little more and get something to make the room come alive. I was gonna stick with Kef before I bought them but the whole ID thing has me intrigued that quality can be had at a lower price, and higher value when purchasing based solely on reputation.

I too just took the plunge since it was $100 less than when I looked the last time. Granted that was also before I heard about all of this. At the same price as an SVS PB12-NSD, I figure I'll give it a shot. If it doesn't work out, I'm not on the street and can always return it within 45 days. My first powered sub, I hope I love it.

I fear I'm going to need new speakers though to run with it. Those rockets don't look too bad, and are cheaper than I expected them to be when looking at the site. Given that they are ID, they probably run with much higher dollar speakers that I'm probably used to @ B&M's. Could you compare them to anything, say some Def Techs or Kef's? I have a set of 04 Kef Q1's I've been using forever with an older Kef Reference Center. I recently bought a pair of Polk Monitor 50's for like $180 on sale just to get some more speakers into the room. They really aren't terrible for what I paid for them but I know the quality isn't quite up to where I want it to be. Eventually I need to invest a little more and get something to make the room come alive. I was gonna stick with Kef before I bought them but the whole ID thing has me intrigued that quality can be had at a lower price, and higher value when purchasing based solely on reputation.

Congrats....you're gonna really like the MFW. Literally, the biggest "bang for the buck" in subs.

I've only heard the speakers you mentioned in a showroom (and not all of the models you listed).

I've had my Rockets for a few years now. I've yet to hear anything better at anything near their price.

Sound is always room dependent....electronics dependent, etc.

But, if you forced me to pick a couple of words to describe the Rockets, they're smooth and articulate. Plus, they look beautiful. Drivers are top notch as are the crossovers. Built extremely well.

I've got the RS250s MK II for L/R duty. The RSC 200 center (Big Foot). RSS 300 surrounds (discontinued).

The ELTs have received great reviews, as have the X-Series. You really can't go wrong with any of them.

Call them and see what they recommend. Have fun!

I've got the RS250s MK II for L/R duty. The RSC 200 center (Big Foot). RSS 300 surrounds (discontinued).


LOL, that was my first Rocket set up. Nice set up, especially for HT.

LOL, that was my first Rocket set up. Nice set up, especially for HT.

Hey Nick....good to see you here.

My first AV123 speakers were the now retired ELTs. I still have them. Still like them. They're tucked away until I press them into service for a 2nd HT room I'm planning.

I finally upgraded to Rockets a couple of years ago. Very pleased with them. They're speakers that don't stand out in any one particular category, but seem to do everything well.

Everytime I think about trying something else, I always give my Rockets another listen and ask myself why I would, and what I would expect. It would cost me substantially more to get any significant improvement....and even that's not a guarantee in my room.

I think the Rockets are the "sweet spot" in the AV123 speaker line. There's no way I could fit LSs in my room. And, the X-Statics are interesting, but don't know if they'd offer anything that I feel I'm missing with the Rockets. I view the current ELT 525s as a step down, but people seem to love those, too.

Anyway, if I was going to make an "upgrade" move, it should have been when the 850s were on sale. Unfortunately, they were on sale when Uncle Sam sent me a big tax bill, and that opportunity slipped away.

Still, the RS 250 MK IIs are great with my music, and as a part of my HT.

Unfortunately, they were on sale when Uncle Sam sent me a big tax bill, and that opportunity slipped away.



You have a mean Uncle, he sent me a bill too. :p


That is a good strategy/thought process to go through whenever one plans to upgrade anything. It helps keep both expectations in check and clarifies what it is the person wants to attain through the upgrade. All too often we want "better" but don't think "better what...bass...vocals..." etc.

Rockets are a great speaker, especially for the prices they have been selling for. The have detailed but not exagerated highs, tight bass/mid bass and excellent big sounding mids.

My experience with the x-static is limmited but I walked away unimpressed. The was nothing wrong with them but nothing special either. I think they may need more from the room and setup to shine.

The x Encores in the -ls cs sls and mtm were great for the money. Not quite the level of rockets but close and a fraction of the price. Nuetral sounding speakers that put out a big sound.

I can't figure out the ELT 525 love. I spent a bunch of time with the m's and center and was disapponted. They are small and sound like it. There was nothing to love about the center, but the monitors were ok for nearfield listening such as desktop speakers. I would bet Craig's new WAF's will be a much better budget mini. I would not match anything in this class with an MFW though. The 525's were way outclassed by it. Not even close.

Rockets are a great speaker, especially for the prices they have been selling for. The have detailed but not exagerated highs, tight bass/mid bass and excellent big sounding mids.

My experience with the x-static is limmited but I walked away unimpressed. The was nothing wrong with them but nothing special either. I think they may need more from the room and setup to shine.

The x Encores in the -ls cs sls and mtm were great for the money. Not quite the level of rockets but close and a fraction of the price. Nuetral sounding speakers that put out a big sound.

I can't figure out the ELT 525 love. I spent a bunch of time with the m's and center and was disapponted. They are small and sound like it. There was nothing to love about the center, but the monitors were ok for nearfield listening such as desktop speakers. I would bet Craig's new WAF's will be a much better budget mini. I would not match anything in this class with an MFW though. The 525's were way outclassed by it. Not even close.

Matt.....I had thought that the "open baffle" design of the x-static would be interesting. Just not enough interest to make me give up my Rockets. Of course, I could say that about a lot of different speakers from a lot of different manufacturers.

I see a lot of love for the ELT 525s. But, there again, I don't know if there's enough there to make me ditch the original ELTs which I've got waiting to be pressed back into service.

Craig's WAF look to be on the market here in the near future. I'm thinking of giving them a listen for a little 2.1 channel set up in my office. Picked up a little Energy sub at Costco a couple of weeks ago. Not much there to speak of....8" driver, self powered, pretty lightweight. But, for a relatively small office environment, with an ipod based music system, it should suffice.

You have a mean Uncle, he sent me a bill too. :p


That is a good strategy/thought process to go through whenever one plans to upgrade anything. It helps keep both expectations in check and clarifies what it is the person wants to attain through the upgrade. All too often we want "better" but don't think "better what...bass...vocals..." etc.

Nick....couldn't agree more.

BTW....any more details on the email "stuff"?

Hey Nick....good to see you here.

My first AV123 speakers were the now retired ELTs. I still have them. Still like them. They're tucked away until I press them into service for a 2nd HT room I'm planning.

I finally upgraded to Rockets a couple of years ago. Very pleased with them. They're speakers that don't stand out in any one particular category, but seem to do everything well.

Everytime I think about trying something else, I always give my Rockets another listen and ask myself why I would, and what I would expect. It would cost me substantially more to get any significant improvement....and even that's not a guarantee in my room.

I think the Rockets are the "sweet spot" in the AV123 speaker line. There's no way I could fit LSs in my room. And, the X-Statics are interesting, but don't know if they'd offer anything that I feel I'm missing with the Rockets. I view the current ELT 525s as a step down, but people seem to love those, too.

Anyway, if I was going to make an "upgrade" move, it should have been when the 850s were on sale. Unfortunately, they were on sale when Uncle Sam sent me a big tax bill, and that opportunity slipped away.

Still, the RS 250 MK IIs are great with my music, and as a part of my HT.

Prior to hearing about AV123 I bought the Klipsch RF-82's and the RC-64 monster center channel, very very good speakers but they don't blend in very well (with the furniture). If I had to do it over again I would buy the Rocket RS850's, the Bigfoot and RSS300's.

I'm actually thinking about buying the Rockets and selling my Klipsch's but the wife would have a full on heart attack if I did that now. So next Spring I'll bring it up and see if she goes nuts or not. :cool:

BTW....any more details on the email "stuff"?

No, but I am still looking into it. Thanks for asking though. :)

My experience with the x-static is limited but I walked away unimpressed. The was nothing wrong with them but nothing special either. I think they may need more from the room and setup to shine.



My experiences with the X-Statik have been mixed. RMAF 2007 when AV123 had them set up in one of their rooms I thought they were good but not all that special. Last years RMAF Danny Ritchie had a set (or his versions, I am not positive of which) teamed up with a servo sub and I thought they sounded fantastic. The difference may well have been the room interaction, but when it all works together, they are pretty impressive.

Prior to hearing about AV123 I bought the Klipsch RF-82's and the RC-64 monster center channel, very very good speakers but they don't blend in very well (with the furniture). If I had to do it over again I would buy the Rocket RS850's, the Bigfoot and RSS300's.

I'm actually thinking about buying the Rockets and selling my Klipsch's but the wife would have a full on heart attack if I did that now. So next Spring I'll bring it up and see if she goes nuts or not. :cool:

Sounds like a trade off is in order. Probably cost you some expensive jewelry, but you can trade-in that good will for the Rockets.

Sounds like a trade off is in order. Probably cost you some expensive jewelry, but you can trade-in that good will for the Rockets.

Everything in the house has cost me double. ;)

Everything in the house has cost me double. ;)


Never get suckered into audio for jewelry trades!

More like audio for carpets, refridgerators, washer and dryers....

Its just an appliance, that makes sound dear.

Much like your blender! or hair dryer! :p

Never get suckered into audio for jewelry trades!

More like audio for carpets, refridgerators, washer and dryers....

Its just an appliance, that makes sound dear.

Much like your blender! or hair dryer! :p

I've been using our recent washer/dryer, fridge, & dishwasher purchases for offseting reasons for my lastest case of upgraditis. We just bought a house late last year and need all of them. But, I think I'll have to get a new tankless water heater next year...should buy me lots of ugrade room!

Everything in the house has cost me double. ;)

LOL....I was married when I first started getting into this HT hobby. I know all too well what it took to get the new speakers, the new BIGGER screen, the new sub, etc. You're right. It costs about double considering the "bribe" that has to come first.

Been single for several years. Don't know if I could ever go back to, "honey, would you mind if I spent $x,xxx for a new....

a) amps
b) speakers
c) big ass sub
d) Chuck it all and let me start over

That would bring a rash of, "why? what's wrong with what you've got? I need....."

a) A bigger jacuzzi tub
b) To redecorate the bedroom including new furniture
c) New window treatments, on every window
d) New granite counter tops to replace the 2 year old Corian ones you put in (at her request)

Usually, a diamond....

a) ring
b) ear rings
c) pendant
4) watch

...would get her to my way of thinking.

One of our big fights (right before we split) was when she said....

"You'd be just as happy with your motorcycle, living with a mattress on the floor, bean bags for chairs, and all your electronic junk all around you."

Well.....DUH, of course I would.

I've been using our recent washer/dryer, fridge, & dishwasher purchases for offseting reasons for my lastest case of upgraditis. We just bought a house late last year and need all of them. But, I think I'll have to get a new tankless water heater next year...should buy me lots of ugrade room!

Wayne, I like the pics of your set up. Nice and CLEAN!

"You'd be just as happy with your motorcycle, living with a mattress on the floor, bean bags for chairs, and all your electronic junk all around you."

Well.....DUH, of course I would.

what guy wouldn't? ;)

every time i read stuff like you guys are posting, i thank my lucky stars that i am married to someone who is an a/v nut too...

every time i read stuff like you guys are posting, i thank my lucky stars that i am married to someone who is an a/v nut too...

Cheater! :p

Cheater! :p

LOL!!!!

Chris....you are fortunate. These days, when I have "company" over, generally she loves my HT set up. Matter of fact, they usually see it as a way to spend time together.

A quick question concerning dual MFWs. At the sale price, including shipping, I'm looking at about $1260. For $1400 I could have a pair of ED A5-350s delivered. All the issues concerning AV123 put aside, what would the best choice be? Based on performance versus price which would be the best deal? I'd be going for black, so finish is not a problem. They both have 15" drivers, but the ED has a 500 watt amp versus 350 for the MFW. Anyone heard both and care to comment? Thanks!

Cheater! :p

lol! it was in the requirements document. "must like gadgets and toys"... :p heck, she has more ipods than apple does... :rolleyes: it helps that one of her first real jobs was running a mixing board for a studio... probably shouldn't rub it in, but she likes football too... :)

LOL!!!!

Chris....you are fortunate. These days, when I have "company" over, generally she loves my HT set up. Matter of fact, they usually see it as a way to spend time together.

sounds like you've been finding the right "company" these days... ;)

Prior to hearing about AV123 I bought the Klipsch RF-82's and the RC-64 monster center channel, very very good speakers but they don't blend in very well (with the furniture). If I had to do it over again I would buy the Rocket RS850's, the Bigfoot and RSS300's.

I'm actually thinking about buying the Rockets and selling my Klipsch's but the wife would have a full on heart attack if I did that now. So next Spring I'll bring it up and see if she goes nuts or not. :cool:

You know Klipsch....I was just thinking about trading your Klipsch set up for AV123 Rockets. Just a little advice.....the Rockets sound very different than the typical Klipsch sound. Not that one's better than the other. But, Klipsch are kind of dynamic sounding.

Rockets are more, as I described before, smooth and articulate. Don't know if that would enter into your decision or not. But, just something to consider.

btw, still trying to talk myself into a pair of these... my a/v budget is shot right now, but i could always sell my existing sub...

A quick question concerning dual MFWs. At the sale price, including shipping, I'm looking at about $1260. For $1400 I could have a pair of ED A5-350s delivered. All the issues concerning AV123 put aside, what would the best choice be? Based on performance versus price which would be the best deal? I'd be going for black, so finish is not a problem. They both have 15" drivers, but the ED has a 500 watt amp versus 350 for the MFW. Anyone heard both and care to comment? Thanks!

I looked at the same thing and decided to go "Sealed" so I got dual Ed A7S-450's for 1600. Sealed has a bass sound all its own.

Bill

I looked at the same thing and decided to go "Sealed" so I got dual Ed A7S-450's for 1600. Sealed has a bass sound all its own.

Bill

I was looking at those as well, 18" driver, wow! How do they stack up for HT versus 15" ported? I like tight bass, but I REALLY like down low HT action.

A quick question concerning dual MFWs. At the sale price, including shipping, I'm looking at about $1260. For $1400 I could have a pair of ED A5-350s delivered. All the issues concerning AV123 put aside, what would the best choice be? Based on performance versus price which would be the best deal? I'd be going for black, so finish is not a problem. They both have 15" drivers, but the ED has a 500 watt amp versus 350 for the MFW. Anyone heard both and care to comment? Thanks!

Welllll....that's a good question. I've never heard any of the eD products. So, I can't do a direct comparison.

I have a single MFW in a fairly good size room (~15'X18') with the back end open. I've measured mine at the listening position (about 10' away) down to an in-room response of about 15 Hz before the roll off. If I corner loaded it, it would probably measure even lower. It's also very visceral. In short, it hits hard and low.

Mentioned before, it can be musical, too. One of my reference disks for music is a BD of John Mayer in concert. He plays part of the concert with an electric trio. The bassist's lines are very tuneful on this disk using the MFW.

On the other hand, WOTW disk will flap your pants in the pod seen. You'll also "feel" the MFW moving a lot of air in the process.

Duals, for $900 +shipping, in my estimation, are "THE DEAL". I don't know that you can beat that amount of "subwooferage" for the price. Truth told, I'll probably add a 2nd MFW here pretty shortly. It's also been reported that the "new amp" they're shipping with the revised MFW is more powerful. Don't know by how much, though.

Klipsch has dual MFWs. I'm sure he can give you his impressions.

btw, still trying to talk myself into a pair of these... my a/v budget is shot right now, but i could always sell my existing sub...

Yes, I'd love to spend your money on dual MFWs.:D

You know Klipsch....I was just thinking about trading your Klipsch set up for AV123 Rockets. Just a little advice.....the Rockets sound very different than the typical Klipsch sound. Not that one's better than the other. But, Klipsch are kind of dynamic sounding.

Rockets are more, as I described before, smooth and articulate. Don't know if that would enter into your decision or not. But, just something to consider.

Oh I hear ya, don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE the sound of the RF-82's and RC-64, my only wish is they were offered in Rosewood. My RC-64 is Cherry veneer but the RF-82's a vinyl Cherry, there is a distinct difference between the two. But sound wise, WOW. :) They aren't nearly as bright as some people would assume them to be, I consider them to be very articulate and smooth as well but probably not as smooth as the 850's, I'd love to hear a pair.

Welllll....that's a good question. I've never heard any of the eD products. So, I can't do a direct comparison.

I have a single MFW in a fairly good size room (~15'X18') with the back end open. I've measured mine at the listening position (about 10' away) down to an in-room response of about 15 Hz before the roll off. If I corner loaded it, it would probably measure even lower. It's also very visceral. In short, it hits hard and low.

Mentioned before, it can be musical, too. One of my reference disks for music is a BD of John Mayer in concert. He plays part of the concert with an electric trio. The bassist's lines are very tuneful on this disk using the MFW.

On the other hand, WOTW disk will flap your pants in the pod seen. You'll also "feel" the MFW moving a lot of air in the process.

Duals, for $900 +shipping, in my estimation, are "THE DEAL". I don't know that you can beat that amount of "subwooferage" for the price. Truth told, I'll probably add a 2nd MFW here pretty shortly. It's also been reported that the "new amp" they're shipping with the revised MFW is more powerful. Don't know by how much, though.

Klipsch has dual MFWs. I'm sure he can give you his impressions.

Dual MFW impression, no problem...



HOLY FRIGGIN CRAP, not the best explanation right? Ok, they hit very hard to a low enough depth that the floor moves below your feet and you'd swear the walls are going to crack, enough so that you actually go and look to make sure they haven't.

I'm sure a pair of Submersives would knock my socks off more but for the money performance wise, NOTHING can touch these for the money you pay.

If I had room I'd add two more. :D

Dual MFW impression, no problem...



HOLY FRIGGIN CRAP, not the best explanation right? Ok, they hit very hard to a low enough depth that the floor moves below your feet and you'd swear the walls are going to crack, enough so that you actually go and look to make sure they haven't.

I'm sure a pair of Submersives would knock my socks off more but for the money performance wise, NOTHING can touch these for the money you pay.

If I had room I'd add two more. :D

If I could talk "bossobass" out of one or two of his DIY subs, that would be the only thing I'd consider over the MFWs. Probably give the Seaton Submersive the nod, too (given that Seaton designed the MFW, too).

Outside of those (which would cost substantially more), I don't see anything that would move me off my plan for dual MFWs.

I have duals in my condo right now and I think I'm going to add two diamond blacks when I get the dough. About all hell breaking loose and walls flexing, I don't know man, they are good though.

I actually got an e-mail from MLS after placing my order. I had left a little note concerning the whole amp thing and actually got 2 back, one as a secondary order confirmation which also stressed how all newly placed orders will include the amp redesign. The MLS e-mail pretty much echoed that as well stressing that it is NOT a BASH design which had been speculated in several threads. I actually was pretty impressed by this. Not that I was really that worried before, but I feel slightly better that the founder is taking time out of his day to write to me and echo again the confidence in his product, despite recent issues, and his dedication to the solution.

If I could talk "bossobass" out of one or two of his DIY subs, that would be the only thing I'd consider over the MFWs. Probably give the Seaton Submersive the nod, too (given that Seaton designed the MFW, too).

Outside of those (which would cost substantially more), I don't see anything that would move me off my plan for dual MFWs.

I hear dat! :D

I have duals in my condo right now and I think I'm going to add two diamond blacks when I get the dough. About all hell breaking loose and walls flexing, I don't know man, they are good though.

Flexing, no, but vibrate like a mofo, oh hell ya. If you put your hand on the siding outside while the system is going full tilt it is hitting pretty damn hard, in room peak measurement of 120db is pretty damn hard me thinks.

In a condo though, holy crap do the neighbors talk to you anymore or are they in your place when you let loose with the bass?

Yes, I'd love to spend your money on dual MFWs.:D

well, if they do show up here in da 'hood, you are going to have to make a road trip to help me muscle them around and get them dialed in... :) and you'd better bring your plaster tools too, becuase i'm thinking i'll end up needing some repair work... :D

If I could talk "bossobass" out of one or two of his DIY subs, that would be the only thing I'd consider over the MFWs. Probably give the Seaton Submersive the nod, too (given that Seaton designed the MFW, too).

Outside of those (which would cost substantially more), I don't see anything that would move me off my plan for dual MFWs.

oh yea... i'd LOVE one of those ones in his build thread... those things are SWEET...

a submersive wouldn't be a bad option either... but i'd need to hire someone to get it in my room... either that or end up having a hernia operation... :eek:

my paradigm has been very good to me, and i still like it a lot, but the urge to experiment is strong... :) i need another hobby... :o

Flexing, no, but vibrate like a mofo, oh hell ya. If you put your hand on the siding outside while the system is going full tilt it is hitting pretty damn hard, in room peak measurement of 120db is pretty damn hard me thinks.

In a condo though, holy crap do the neighbors talk to you anymore or are they in your place when you let loose with the bass?

20 year old building with slab concrete in between the pads. I'm on the bottom floor and my neighbours beside me and above me are in their 80's. Two complaints in 2 years so not bad. Adding a third behind my couch is gonna be sick!

Never get suckered into audio for jewelry trades!

More like audio for carpets, refridgerators, washer and dryers....

Its just an appliance, that makes sound dear.

Much like your blender! or hair dryer! :p

I tried the applicance argument, I used to hear, the TV has speakers, why not just use them? Then one day I told her, ya know, we could get rid of the black bars by buying a wide screen TV. That was 10 years ago, so it was her idea to buy one. ;)

I felt quite proud of myself for that one considering I was buying widescreen edition DVD's just so I could make the black bar argument. :D

Now she is at the point where she turns the HT gear on just to watch TV so this slow process has been working. Unfortunately I have to save up double because she makes me get her something no matter how small my purchase is,,, damn women! :rolleyes: :D

LOL....I was married when I first started getting into this HT hobby. I know all too well what it took to get the new speakers, the new BIGGER screen, the new sub, etc. You're right. It costs about double considering the "bribe" that has to come first.

Been single for several years. Don't know if I could ever go back to, "honey, would you mind if I spent $x,xxx for a new....

a) amps
b) speakers
c) big ass sub
d) Chuck it all and let me start over

That would bring a rash of, "why? what's wrong with what you've got? I need....."

a) A bigger jacuzzi tub
b) To redecorate the bedroom including new furniture
c) New window treatments, on every window
d) New granite counter tops to replace the 2 year old Corian ones you put in (at her request)

Usually, a diamond....

a) ring
b) ear rings
c) pendant
4) watch

...would get her to my way of thinking.

One of our big fights (right before we split) was when she said....

"You'd be just as happy with your motorcycle, living with a mattress on the floor, bean bags for chairs, and all your electronic junk all around you."

Well.....DUH, of course I would.

I so hear ya! For my wife it's friggin SHOES, why on God's green earth do they need 60 pairs of shoes. She explains it to me, but it just doesn't make sense at all. So, I guess my hobbies might seem just as crazy.

I'm into Home Theater, Computers, Antique Tube radios (1930's wooden), Ham Radio and fast cars....ok, she can buy some more shoes... :o

20 year old building with slab concrete in between the pads. I'm on the bottom floor and my neighbours beside me and above me are in their 80's. Two complaints in 2 years so not bad. Adding a third behind my couch is gonna be sick!

No, not bad at all! :D

When my wife and I had just started dating she had a 19" mono TV with a crack in the screen and a Yorx stereo with the speakers in the corner behind her TV shelf, stacked on top of each other and facing the corner. She was also savvy enough to use her VCR as a demodulator for her DVD player and then from the VCR to the TV via coax F-Pin, so everything was pretty...uhm...crappy. She lived in a 400 square foot studio in a very nice beach town in So Cal. She stated everything worked fine and that she wouldn't have room for anything bigger anyway. All the while she had over 100 pairs of shoes (no fooling, I counted once) tucked into some of the most ingenious hidey-holes I have ever seen.

The best move I ever made in regards to getting her to accept and use the HT equipment was getting a good universal remote that had pretty powerful macro's but was super easy to use (one of the first gen Harmony's). I set it up to where everything always runs through the HT audio gear. She is now used to it and even called me when a sub went out because Transformers didn't have the usual bass level. It took years, but I wore her down.

Thinking about trading/selling my SVS cylinder sub for something a little more traditional, and I came across these. Are there any better pics of the finish options?

Also, a little confused on the finish options. So there's a satin black, cherry, rosewood and then moho? And then the diamond finish offers a gloss finish, on top of the same color/veneer? Is the black diamond the same as everyone else's gloss black?

Have there been any comparisons with the HSU VFT-2's and 3's? That's probably my other choice. I'd actually prefer to stay with SVS, but there choices are kinda limited on a ~$750 sub with veneer/gloss black options.

When my wife and I had just started dating she had a 19" mono TV with a crack in the screen and a Yorx stereo with the speakers in the corner behind her TV shelf, stacked on top of each other and facing the corner. She was also savvy enough to use her VCR as a demodulator for her DVD player and then from the VCR to the TV via coax F-Pin, so everything was pretty...uhm...crappy. She lived in a 400 square foot studio in a very nice beach town in So Cal. She stated everything worked fine and that she wouldn't have room for anything bigger anyway. All the while she had over 100 pairs of shoes (no fooling, I counted once) tucked into some of the most ingenious hidey-holes I have ever seen.

The best move I ever made in regards to getting her to accept and use the HT equipment was getting a good universal remote that had pretty powerful macro's but was super easy to use (one of the first gen Harmony's). I set it up to where everything always runs through the HT audio gear. She is now used to it and even called me when a sub went out because Transformers didn't have the usual bass level. It took years, but I wore her down.A touching story :)

People have said about my wife & me, "What a peaceful & loving couple".

The local newspaper reporter happened to inquire as to the secret of our long and happy marriage. My wife replied "Well, it dates back to our honeymoon when we visited the Grand Canyon, in Arizona, and took a trip down to the bottom of the canyon by horse. We hadn't gone too far when my husband's horse stumbled and he almost fell off. My husband looked down at the horse and quietly said, "That's once."

"We proceeded a little further and his horse stumbled again. Again my husband quietly said, "That's twice."

We hadn't gone a half-mile when the horse stumbled for the third time. My husband quietly removed a revolver from his backpack and shot the horse dead.

I SHOUTED at him, "What's wrong with you, man! Why did you shoot the poor animal like that, are you a ****ing maniac?"

He looked at ME, and quietly said, "That's once." and from that moment... we have lived happily ever after."

Wayne, I like the pics of your set up. Nice and CLEAN!

Thanks, my wife has been great with letting me setup the HT just like I want.

I so hear ya! For my wife it's friggin SHOES, why on God's green earth do they need 60 pairs of shoes. She explains it to me, but it just doesn't make sense at all. So, I guess my hobbies might seem just as crazy.

I'm into Home Theater, Computers, Antique Tube radios (1930's wooden), Ham Radio and fast cars....ok, she can buy some more shoes... :o

Yep, my wife has a ton of shoes (haven't been brave enough to count them all). She has little containers for each with a picture of the shoes on the outside.:D

A touching story :)

People have said about my wife & me, "What a peaceful & loving couple".

The local newspaper reporter happened to inquire as to the secret of our long and happy marriage. My wife replied "Well, it dates back to our honeymoon when we visited the Grand Canyon, in Arizona, and took a trip down to the bottom of the canyon by horse. We hadn't gone too far when my husband's horse stumbled and he almost fell off. My husband looked down at the horse and quietly said, "That's once."

"We proceeded a little further and his horse stumbled again. Again my husband quietly said, "That's twice."

We hadn't gone a half-mile when the horse stumbled for the third time. My husband quietly removed a revolver from his backpack and shot the horse dead.

I SHOUTED at him, "What's wrong with you, man! Why did you shoot the poor animal like that, are you a ****ing maniac?"

He looked at ME, and quietly said, "That's once." and from that moment... we have lived happily ever after."
Chu....old joke, but still FUNNY!

Truth told, when we were first married, we didn't have a pot to...well you know....or a window to throw it out of.

Lived in an apartment that was at most, 600 sq ft. As time went on, we bought one house, then another bigger house, and then an even bigger one.

In the process, we acquired stuff.....more and more expensive "stuff".

1st HT was 15+ years ago. It was made up of an Hitachi 50" RPTV (which was state-'o-the art, at the time). A hi-fi VCR and a Sony STEREO AVR. Comparatively, it was pretty bad considering what the state of the art is today.

Went through a string of speakers, some Cambridge Soundworks, to two sets of Ascends, to a couple of HSU subs, to two separate sets of Rockets and finally the MFW.

Interestingly enough, the key to acquiring the HT stuff was the remote....and how simple or difficult it was to use. The original Harmony kind of took care of that part. Before that, the "then" wife's level of dissatisfaction with my AV hobby was directly related to how easy or difficult the remote was to use.

When we first met, I had a beat up Toyota. She had a beat up Cavalier. Those gave way to new Toyotas, BMWs, a couple of Soft Tails...an odd Mustang Cobra here and there.

Vacations in the early years were weekend trips to Gatlinburg. Those gave way to cruises, Europe, Hawaii, etc.

The old adage still has legs......we were happier when we had less, and were dirt poor, than when we had expensive "stuff", doing expensive "things".

Enough nostalgia, though.

How about those MFWs?

Thinking about trading/selling my SVS cylinder sub for something a little more traditional, and I came across these. Are there any better pics of the finish options?

Also, a little confused on the finish options. So there's a satin black, cherry, rosewood and then moho? And then the diamond finish offers a gloss finish, on top of the same color/veneer? Is the black diamond the same as everyone else's gloss black?

Have there been any comparisons with the HSU VFT-2's and 3's? That's probably my other choice. I'd actually prefer to stay with SVS, but there choices are kinda limited on a ~$750 sub with veneer/gloss black options.
Pictures of the finishes don't do them justice. But, you've pretty much nailed it for the diamond finishes....high gloss over the veneer.

Earlier in this thread, I posted some pics of what diamond cherry and rosewood finishes look like. From pics I've seen (see attached), the diamond black is in line with piano black finishes. To the right, it looks like the rear view of Moho natural. And, to the rear, it looks like there's an MFW in Rosewood.

Yep, my wife has a ton of shoes (haven't been brave enough to count them all). She has little containers for each with a picture of the shoes on the outside.:D

I don't mind her having them, but when you get home from work, and there are so many shoes in the foyer because she is too lazy to put them away and you have to either walk on them or navigate around them, ugh.

I should post a picture... :rolleyes:

While these graphs aren't mine, there's another person who has measured his in room response with dual MFWs over at Tweak City Audio. It's EQ'd....one octave smoothing.

Interesting that with his duals, he got as low as 11.5 Hz.

While these graphs aren't mine, there's another person who has measured his in room response with dual MFWs over at Tweak City Audio. It's EQ'd....one octave smoothing.

Interesting that with his duals, he got as low as 11.5 Hz.

Another worthless FR curve. If you want to show a meaningful FR curve, the baseline should be at least 105 db, not 78 db. Power compression would roll off the lower frequencies.

Mark Seaton likes to mention that a 5 inch driver can reproduce frequecies under 20 Hz, but below the threshold of audibility.

The MFW has a tuning point of ~19Hz. Given that it's ported, FR at healthy volume falls off rapidly below tuning.

Besides all that there is the threshold of hearing chart:rolleyes:

Another worthless FR curve. If you want to show a meaningful FR curve, the baseline should be at least 105 db, not 78 db. Power compression would roll off the lower frequencies.

Mark Seaton likes to mention that a 5 inch driver can reproduce frequecies under 20 Hz, but below the threshold of audibility.

The MFW has a tuning point of ~19Hz. Given that it's ported, FR at healthy volume falls off rapidly below tuning.

Besides all that there is the threshold of hearing chart:rolleyes:

Ahh... Nice Catch. Was almost impressed enough with the MFW's to consider them over an Epik Dynasty given the price point. I should have paid attention closer.

Ahh... Nice Catch. Was almost impressed enough with the MFW's to consider them over an Epik Dynasty given the price point. I should have paid attention closer.

Thanks

There are a few people who repeatedly post FR graphs at ~75 db, instead of three graphs with baselines of 105, 110, and 115 db.

Most >$700 subs can hit 110-115 db at certain frequencies, (typically at around 60 Hz), but simply can't maintain those levels below 32 Hz. Even great subs like the Genelec HTS6 can only do so much.

http://www.avtalk.co.uk//showthread.php?t=12079

Compare the 85 db curve with the 120 db curve. The fact that it even has a 120 db curve says a lot.

I have never heard the HTS6, but those who have heard it report that it is stunning, (as well it should be for the price).

OK....then....another worthless graph.:confused:....Your's? Mine? Whomevers?

Just trying to give some a reference point to make a decision.

Some will like it. Some won't.

I'm just asking that the "ney sayers" (who have their own thread) give us this thread, a place where we can discuss the merits of the MFW and answer questions.

Please....PLEASE, respect that!!!!!;)

Another worthless FR curve. If you want to show a meaningful FR curve, the baseline should be at least 105 db, not 78 db. Power compression would roll off the lower frequencies.

Mark Seaton likes to mention that a 5 inch driver can reproduce frequecies under 20 Hz, but below the threshold of audibility.

The MFW has a tuning point of ~19Hz. Given that it's ported, FR at healthy volume falls off rapidly below tuning.

Besides all that there is the threshold of hearing chart:rolleyes:

The reason I showed some graphs at Tweak City Audio was to demonstrate how I was able to EQ with REW and a DCX2496. I showed unsmoothed, 1/3 octave and 1/1 octave charts. The 1/1 octave chart was just to show that you can make similar results to an AS-EQ1 (if that is its graph resolution).

Before EQ, the MFW-15's start to roll of at around 16-17 Hz. I cut a peak at 20Hz by -4.7 dB and one at 24Hz by -2.7 dB. The effect of these cuts causes the MFW-15's to roll off at a lower frequency. However, I probably do not have as much headroom.

I have found that for EQing purposes, the frequency response above 20 Hz stays very similar regardless of volume level. I can't EQ below 20 Hz with my DCX2496 anyway, so why should I run sweeps at 105 dB for the purpose of EQing?

I just ran another sweep at 105 dB. I also made the graph so it only has 4 dB changes between lines. It looks like I am +/- 2.5 dB from 12.5 to my crossover at 100 Hz.

Are they replacing all amps even though they may have not died yet? Seems if there was an known issue they would replace all previous amps.

The reason I showed some graphs at Tweak City Audio was to demonstrate how I was able to EQ with REW and a DCX2496. I showed unsmoothed, 1/3 octave and 1/1 octave charts. The 1/1 octave chart was just to show that you can make similar results to an AS-EQ1 (if that is its graph resolution).

Before EQ, the MFW-15's start to roll of at around 16-17 Hz. I cut a peak at 20Hz by -4.7 dB and one at 24Hz by -2.7 dB. The effect of these cuts causes the MFW-15's to roll off at a lower frequency. However, I probably do not have as much headroom.

I have found that for EQing purposes, the frequency response above 20 Hz stays very similar regardless of volume level. I can't EQ below 20 Hz with my DCX2496 anyway, so why should I run sweeps at 105 dB for the purpose of EQing?

Thanks for clarification. Hope you didn't mind that I posted your graph!

Are they replacing all amps even though they may have not died yet? Seems if there was an known issue they would replace all previous amps.

They're replacing any that have problems.

They're replacing any that have problems.

Which by their own admission (counterfeit parts, faulty design) would be all of them.

I just ran another sweep at 105 dB. I also made the graph so it only has 4 dB changes between lines. It looks like I am +/- 2.5 dB from 12.5 to my crossover at 100 Hz.

That graph is useless. Save that sweep, then run another at 110, and a third at 115. Show them all on the same graph so we can seen any compression. When you are done with that, wash and wax my car and then mow my lawn. Don't forget to do the edging with the trimmer. Oh, REW uses low to high sweeps, which are marginal at best. Redo everything with high to low sweeps and also vary the sweep times. Make sure you test with both low humidity and high humidity so we can see how your air is influencing the graph results. Also...

OK....then....another worthless graph.:confused:....Your's? Mine? Whomevers?

Just trying to give some a reference point to make a decision.

Some will like it. Some won't.

I'm just asking that the "ney sayers" (who have their own thread) give us this thread, a place where we can discuss the merits of the MFW and answer questions.

Please....PLEASE, respect that!!!!!;)


"Just trying to give some a reference point to make a decision."

And JackOften was pleased that I pointed out the useless 78 db baseline graph that you posted.

Others find the reference points about how you came to buy an MFW of significant interest.

How much more did you pay to get the MFW than to get the new woofer for your HSU VTF-3? That would be a good reference point for people.

That graph is useless. Save that sweep, then run another at 110, and a third at 115. Show them all on the same graph so we can seen any compression. When you are done with that, wash and wax my car and then mow my lawn. Don't forget to do the edging with the trimmer. Oh, REW uses low to high sweeps, which are marginal at best. Redo everything with high to low sweeps and also vary the sweep times. Make sure you test with both low humidity and high humidity so we can see how your air is influencing the graph results. Also...

At least I am using the Tascam US-122L you recommended to me. :cool: I keep my ECM8000 attached to my tripod and connected to the US-122L. Whenever I want to run sweeps I just plug the Tascam in the computer's USB port, open REW and select the Tascam as the input, calibrate the SPL, and start measuring. It is nice that the Tascam is powered via USB.

"Just trying to give some a reference point to make a decision."

And JackOften was pleased that I pointed out the useless 78 db baseline graph that you posted.

Others find the reference points about how you came to buy an MFW of significant interest.

How much more did you pay to get the MFW than to get the new woofer for your HSU VTF-3? That would be a good reference point for people.

This is an MFW thread. We're trying to answer those questions as they crop up. And, to give those of us who own the MFW, our impressions.

This is NOT a HSU thread.

I've made the offer a couple of times recently for any who want to find out the details of my issues with HSU to do so via PM. No one has dropped me a PM, via that request.

Again, that has no place here in this thread.

Which by their own admission (counterfeit parts, faulty design) would be all of them.

Matt, no doubt in my mind that when/if the amps fail, they will be replaced.

"Just trying to give some a reference point to make a decision."

And JackOften was pleased that I pointed out the useless 78 db baseline graph that you posted.

Others find the reference points about how you came to buy an MFW of significant interest.

How much more did you pay to get the MFW than to get the new woofer for your HSU VTF-3? That would be a good reference point for people.

"You are starting to sound like the guy who thinks he is an expert on women because he reads Playboy and Penthouse." -craigsub

A really funny quote, eh? Have you heard this one spyboy?

that graph is useless. Save that sweep, then run another at 110, and a third at 115. Show them all on the same graph so we can seen any compression. When you are done with that, wash and wax my car and then mow my lawn. Don't forget to do the edging with the trimmer. Oh, rew uses low to high sweeps, which are marginal at best. Redo everything with high to low sweeps and also vary the sweep times. Make sure you test with both low humidity and high humidity so we can see how your air is influencing the graph results. Also...

All I see when I read this. :D

Is it getting chilly in here? :cool:

At least I am using the Tascam US-122L you recommended to me. :cool: I keep my ECM8000 attached to my tripod and connected to the US-122L. Whenever I want to run sweeps I just plug the Tascam in the computer's USB port, open REW and select the Tascam as the input, calibrate the SPL, and start measuring. It is nice that the Tascam is powered via USB.

My wife stole mine :( With all of its microphone capabilities, she uses it to stream Pandora from her laptop through 25 feet of RCA cables to the X-MTM Encores in the familly room.

I was just making fun of Spyboy. The shape of the graph at 75db and 105db is the same, so if one is useless, the other must be too! :D I don't know if he wants to see max output capabilities or where compression begins, but those measurements serve a different purpose and take much more care since you very well may run into the max SPL levels the Behringer can handle and you have to watch for clipping throughout the entire signal and measurement chain and not just the sub.

Here is another useless graph of an MFW-15 in a medium to small room after EQ by Audessey and some manual fixes to crossover and phase/delay (Audesey F'ed that up). Target is 75 db (hence it must be worthless) and the -3db point is at 12.1 hz. Different room different target level, simmilar results to desertdome's.

http://www.m-fine.com/bf-mfw-15.jpg

Matt, no doubt in my mind that when/if the amps fail, they will be replaced.Since you're apparently clairvoyant with all things regarding AV123 can you tell me when MLS will ship my parents the subwoofer I paid for 7 months ago that's currently sitting in his basement? :rolleyes:

Since you're apparently clairvoyant with all things regarding AV123 can you tell me when MLS will ship my parents the subwoofer I paid for 7 months ago that's currently sitting in his basement? :rolleyes:

C'mon, man.. you know the answer to this question...

"SOON."

*hugs*

All the best..

:D

Since you're apparently clairvoyant with all things regarding AV123 can you tell me when MLS will ship my parents the subwoofer I paid for 7 months ago that's currently sitting in his basement? :rolleyes:

Too easy, "Three weeks" :p

Since you're apparently clairvoyant with all things regarding AV123 can you tell me when MLS will ship my parents the subwoofer I paid for 7 months ago that's currently sitting in his basement? :rolleyes:As soon as he replaces the amp because I think both you and I know it's probably not working. Hopefully he won't send the cat that's supposedly curled up around it.

c'mon, man.. You know the answer to this question...

"soon."

*hugs*

all the best..

lmao!

Since you're apparently clairvoyant with all things regarding AV123 can you tell me when MLS will ship my parents the subwoofer I paid for 7 months ago that's currently sitting in his basement? :rolleyes:

I have no idea. Have you called MLS? He's made himself fairly available.

C'mon, man.. you know the answer to this question...

"SOON."

*hugs*

All the best..

:D

lol

/Grandarf vomits on his carpet

I have no idea. Have you called MLS? He's made himself fairly available.

Haven't followed the whole saga, but at one point, I think he stopped answering his phone or disconnected it, or I don't know what, blaming his health... Is there a sort of resume of the whole thing? Timeline of all their problems for those who haven't bothered to follow their crap? Really seem to be everything, from delays, to knowingly ship defective products and replacements, keeping charity money for himself, not sending winning prices from his lotterie, selling speakers through the company forms as if they were ********** speakers and then claiming that they in fact did not purchase from them but from another 3rd party after once again huge delays? etc... That would be something...

I've never had any problems getting through to MLS.....sometimes via phone, other times email. Again, call him up. He's been around in CO for the past couple of months, and pretty readily available. He's always been willing to chat when I've reached him.

I know for awhile, he wasn't in for some serious health reasons. But, even then, you could get hold of Suzanne, Jess, or Kyle.

I've never had any problems getting through to MLS.....sometimes via phone, other times email. Again, call him up. He's been around in CO for the past couple of months, and pretty readily available. He's always been willing to chat when I've reached him.

I know for awhile, he wasn't in for some serious health reasons. But, even then, you could get hold of Suzanne, Jess, or Kyle.

Which in some cases couldn't do anything without MLS who was nowhere to be found... In one of the cases I mentioned, they actually couldn't do anything because MLS had sold speakers (the 4000$ line arrays, which you can see on the products page as 'in development' images) on their forums, but they weren't bought from av, but from MLS's 3rd party paypal... So everyone who had purchased them were getting basically no help from them because it wasn't even a transaction with the company they thought they had bought it from. And since MLS was impossible to reach, those who had prepaid and were waiting for months, if not year(s) (don't know the exact time frame), were seriously getting the shaft. Some were really fed up and wanted out, wanted their money back after all the BS, but it was impossible for them to do it because MLS was unreachable and MLS had somehow sold speakers through their forums but not from the company itself... (like personal transaction).

Anyhow, so many different issues, that's why I said it would be interesting to see them all in one place. I've really not followed things and what I've seen/read has been pretty amazing, pretty amazing in the sense of bad and pathetic. And I wouldn't be surprised if that was just the tip of the iceberg... Probably couple more horror stories for every one I've heard...

Also yeah, I think there was a story about MLS selling his personal speakers and then never sending them... Is that you, stereodude?

I have no idea. Have you called MLS? He's made himself fairly available.Ah yes, I should have to nag someone like a jilted ex-wife in order to get them to complete their side of a business transaction. That's exactly who I want to do business with in the future. And, I would definitely keep recommended people to buy products from. Oh wait... No... I'm confused, that's your opinion and what you do, not me. My bad...

Ah yes, I should have to nag someone like a jilted ex-wife in order to get them to complete their side of a business transaction. That's exactly who I want to do business with in the future. And, I would definitely keep recommended people to buy products from. Oh wait... No... I'm confused, that's your opinion and what you do, not me. My bad...

Hey, it's up to you what you do. Just making a suggestion. And yeah, that's what I would do. I'd call him. Can't hurt.

Hey, it's up to you what you do. Just making a suggestion. And yeah, that's what I would do. I'd call him. Can't hurt.

It's pathetic that you have to call to get something you paid for 7 months ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post
Hey, it's up to you what you do. Just making a suggestion. And yeah, that's what I would do. I'd call him. Can't hurt.
It's pathetic that you have to call to get something you paid for 7 months ago.

Guys c'mon now...no need to squabble.

Hugs ...

Kisses...

All The Best...

Take Care of yourself...

I love you guys...

oh, and...

Happy [insert holiday] to you and yours.

Guys c'mon now...no need to squabble.

Hugs ...

Kisses...

All The Best...

Take Care of yourself...

I love you guys...

oh, and...

Happy [insert holiday] to you and yours.

man you guys make me laugh...thanks...and kinda cry cause it's all TRUE....

lies, deceit, mis information, hugs and kisses....it's all hilarious honestly and pathetic at the same time.

I see the ETA has now changed from June 30th to July on the MFW-15 (satin black). I know this could mean July 1, but I doubt it. I'm not shocked by this, and unfortunately I do think this is just a trend that will continue. Especially since it doesn't sound like anyone has gotten one of the new amps yet.

I'm contemplating canceling my order and jumping on the HSU special for wood veneered vtf 2.3's or possible looking at the SVS pb12-nsd. I know a working MFW is more sub than either of these, but my room is not huge and I don't think I can go wrong with HSU or SVS.

I see the ETA has now changed from June 30th to July on the MFW-15 (satin black). I know this could mean July 1, but I doubt it. I'm not shocked by this, and unfortunately I do think this is just a trend that will continue. Especially since it doesn't sound like anyone has gotten one of the new amps yet.

I'm contemplating canceling my order and jumping on the HSU special for wood veneered vtf 2.3's or possible looking at the SVS pb12-nsd. I know a working MFW is more sub than either of these, but my room is not huge and I don't think I can go wrong with HSU or SVS.

Agreed, both are good choices, performance wise the MFW is better but you have to weigh how patient you want to be and how much risk you want to deal with. Since the same part fails (amp module board) on the MFW and it has been re-designed and sourced from the US it "should" be more reliable and continue to be a performance leader for its segment but nothing will prove this out but time in the field.

Amplifiers have to actually make it out though and so far nothing has been posted about it for over a week so the saga continues.

I've never had any problems getting through to MLS.....sometimes via phone, other times email. Again, call him up. He's been around in CO for the past couple of months, and pretty readily available. He's always been willing to chat when I've reached him.

I know for awhile, he wasn't in for some serious health reasons. But, even then, you could get hold of Suzanne, Jess, or Kyle.

People need to take graphicguy with a grain of salt. He was a disgruntled customer of HSU who wanted special treatment on an out of warranty driver from HSU. He also made the mistake of telling technical support staff at HSU that he had used his HSU sub in an unsafe mode. Then expected them to sell him the replacment driver at a discount.

So far, graphic has not revealed how much more he spent on the MFW compared to paying for a new driver for his HSU, but it must be in the >$400-$500 range.

When HSU refused to sell the replacement driver at a discount, he turned to someone who was willing to sell him a sub at a discount. Of course, his MFW has the defective amp.

He has been an apologist for AV123 ever since, and tends to team up with KlipschHead much of the time in that activity.

*I have a special running...never to be repeated...EVER*

What I have found funny is that I got notification from Kyle at AV123 about another "special deal" a few days after I spilled by guts and confessed my love for all things AV123 (or is it 'The Graham Council...er, I mean, Company).

*Love from everyone here and at Cali*...*Hugs from Cali.* .. *Be safe, lots of love...* *....Sorry that your subs were delayed but I hear that my worker St Tonio Luchez is doing fine from his cart wheel accident*....

*Guys, just wanted to tell you about the best deal EVER...never to be repeated...EVER...in the history of the earth...this is the only opportunity for you to seize the moment*....* My friend and I started a charity event in Cali...* Meanwhile you're sitting on your PC wondering where the hell your goods are. **** Cali.

*Hugs*...

He can take his hugs and shove it down a toilet.

Regards,

Since the same part fails (amp module board) on the MFW and it has been re-designed and sourced from the US it "should" be more reliable

Yeah but it seems the drivers are no longer sourced from the US, so one component was supposedly upgraded, but another has been downgraded. Will the combination perform as well, and be more reliable? Only time will tell.

*I have a special running...never to be repeated...EVER*

What I have found funny is that I got notification from Kyle at AV123 about another "special deal" a few days after I spilled by guts and confessed my love for all things AV123 (or is it 'The Graham Council...er, I mean, Company).

*Love from everyone here and at Cali*...*Hugs from Cali.* .. *Be safe, lots of love...* *....Sorry that your subs were delayed but I hear that my worker St Tonio Luchez is doing fine from his cart wheel accident*....

*Guys, just wanted to tell you about the best deal EVER...never to be repeated...EVER...in the history of the earth...this is the only opportunity for you to seize the moment*....* My friend and I started a charity event in Cali...* Meanwhile you're sitting on your PC wondering where the hell your goods are. **** Cali.

*Hugs*...



I know this post is a bit mean spirited but it "IS" pretty funny. :D

Yeah but it seems the drivers are no longer sourced from the US, so one component was supposedly upgraded, but another has been downgraded. Will the combination perform as well, and be more reliable? Only time will tell.

Link?

He has been an apologist for AV123 ever since, and tends to team up with KlipschHead much of the time in that activity.

IDK about KlipschHead being an apologist. He strikes me more as someone who has purchased a couple of products and is very impressed by their performance. Most of KH's comments I have read of late have either been reserved in tone but hopeful that the company will turn it around, or referring to the performance of his particular products. There's nothing wrong with being happy with what you have, in fact I think all of us would like that. Again, his posts regarding AV123 that I have seen lately are like the above. He is exercising his opinion but tempering it with caution while we wait for more information to come out from users down the road.

There are definitely some who are apologists or just plan old antagonists. GG, while most certainly a huge AV123 fan (a bit of an understatement), at least doesn't attack or belittle others in his posts.

Also, I do not believe we ever got confirmation of any driver changes to the MFW. Certainly within the realm of possibility, but never confirmed as far as I have seen.

He has been an apologist for AV123 ever since, and tends to team up with KlipschHead much of the time in that activity.

I don't apologize for anybody, I gave/give my opinions based on information I had/have, just like you and everybody else.

Also, I do not believe we ever got confirmation of any driver changes to the MFW. Certainly within the realm of possibility, but never confirmed as far as I have seen.

Well, if you are buying new subs I would HIGHLY recommend you look try to get verification that the driver will still be the Eminence driver speced by Mark Seaton. I am not sure you will see a post from AV123 announcing the downgrade, but that does not mean it hasn't already happened. ;)

Well, if you are buying new subs I would HIGHLY recommend you look try to get verification that the driver will still be the Eminence driver speced by Mark Seaton. I am not sure you will see a post from AV123 announcing the downgrade, but that does not mean it hasn't already happened. ;)
I hear that Empire Valuation Consultants has downgraded one of their employees for spending too much time on the forums. You might want to check with Joan. :D

Well, if you are buying new subs I would HIGHLY recommend you look try to get verification that the driver will still be the Eminence driver speced by Mark Seaton. I am not sure you will see a post from AV123 announcing the downgrade, but that does not mean it hasn't already happened. ;)

That would be tricky. I have no faith in AV123 or anything they say. That leaves markings on the driver itself, which may or may not be there. I saw Seatons post about a sticker, but that is about all we have to work with.

If I planned on keeping my pair after the repairs I would be tempted to pull a driver, but I don't want to give AV123 a reason for not following through on their warranty.

Well, if you are buying new subs I would HIGHLY recommend you look try to get verification that the driver will still be the Eminence driver speced by Mark Seaton. I am not sure you will see a post from AV123 announcing the downgrade, but that does not mean it hasn't already happened. ;)

I just talked with Kyle and he said the driver is not changing. He also said the new subs probably won't go out until the third week of July because they want to get all the warrenty replacements out first.

I realize most will not take his or AV123s word as verification. But this is the only way I know to verify.

If proof of a driver change does exist I would be interested in knowing this before my order is completed. I don't mind the wait of a few weeks because it will give time for some initial impressions of the new amp from the warrenty replacement folk. And I do think they should get their amps before the new subs ship.

From 6.24.2009
OK, I just talked to Kyle at av123 and he said that the new amps are installed in all the new MFWs and will be shipped tomorrow...latest Monday. He said that they are BASH amps, and they sent those amps to SEVERAL engineers for testing....and they all came back with flying colors. I know everything heard from AV123 has to taken with a grain of salt...but i thought I would post my newest conversation with them.

Kyle is a nice guy but something got messed up. The amp in the MFW's in my living room are not BASH and when I asked Mark Joslin he told me they weren't. Unless I'm wrong or guessing, if you use BASH technology you are required to state it on the amplifier, but this is just a guess, no facts to back it up or anything, peoples wives are safe.This Kyle isn't the same Kyle Steidle that is the AV123 forum Administrator and Customer Care Manager....is it? Hopefully only customers are getting wrong information from him and not other AV123 employees. :o

I just talked with Kyle and he said the driver is not changing. He also said the new subs probably won't go out until the third week of July because they want to get all the warrenty replacements out first.

I realize most will not take his or AV123s word as verification...
Gee, I can't imagine why anyone would doubt Kyles "word". He seems so "tuned in" to the technology and insider happenings at AV123. He is in management after all.........:rolleyes:

Is it not changing because it's never changed or is it not changing because it was changed some time back and they're sticking with it?

Hey algae. What sub did you finally decide to buy?
Do you currently have an MFW-15 that's broke? Is that why you are on a mission against av123.

Oh by the way the av123 forum is mostly closed. Got something to sell. The classifieds are open.

That would be tricky. I have no faith in AV123 or anything they say. That leaves markings on the driver itself, which may or may not be there. I saw Seatons post about a sticker, but that is about all we have to work with.

If I planned on keeping my pair after the repairs I would be tempted to pull a driver, but I don't want to give AV123 a reason for not following through on their warranty.

Mine is from the first batch,It does have the sticker under the rubber boot, eminence oem mfw-15

Mine is from the first batch,It does have the sticker under the rubber boot, eminence oem mfw-15

You didn't by chance snap a pic of this did you? :o

I know this post is a bit mean spirited but it "IS" pretty funny

I just thought I could give back...you know, after being spoiled by the outstanding service and everything. I can't wait to jump on the next amazing deal.....makes my mouth water just thinking about it. It's hard to imagine getting a better deal sometimes. But when it happens, man oh man.

I was told that there would be an 'ultimate deal' but no further information was given. Because you know, I'm been waiting for Mark to offer quad MFW-15's (a-stock) for half the price of a single MFW-15. A rumor from an inside source says that the offer would include 4 subs (in four different finishes !); one satin black, one moho, one diamond black and one cherry (there are another 100 finishes but they didn't get around to it).

Man oh man ! The disclaimer is that you might not get what you ordered but heck, I'll take my chances.


Just wait for that deal. Kyle reports to me whenever there is an amazing deal. He seems to be, I don't know, almost omnipresent. See, the thing is, people need to understand the difference between 'amazing once in a lifetime deals' and 'really, really amazing, once in a lifetime never to be repeated deals'. Now that's a difference if you ask me.

Well, I know for a fact that my predictions will come true. Damnit, I want all 4 MFW-15's now ! Buggered and all, heavens to Betsy ! I think he'll offer that amazing deal sometime down the road, although, in my opinion, I predict it will be very, very soon.

As a gesture of good will, Mark will send me a couple hundred plate amps so I can mix and match. Although He told me he could organize a couple thousand for cheap so it's like, WTF ? Mark Joslin once gave a client a thousand amps and I'm being offered a couple hundred ? Perhaps I'll buy the factory. When I get home from work I'll have a field trip testing each of those amps since M.J would have retired by then (He suffered from accountability 'you-don't-drink-enough-caffine-and-therefore-can't-do-the-damn-job syndrome ? I think )

Regards,

Oh by the way the av123 forum is mostly closed.
Why are the AV123 forums "mostly" closed?:rolleyes:

Why are the AV123 forums "mostly" closed?:rolleyes:

You're like that kid everybody knows that has a strange tick...


Just saying. :rolleyes:

Why are the AV123 forums "mostly" closed?:rolleyes:

For you, the classified section is. ;)

You're like that kid everybody knows that has a strange tick...
Have you called AV123 and talked to MLS lately? Ask him about the charity money. He's a nice guy and I'm sure you can trust him.:)

Have you called AV123 and talked to MLS lately? Ask him about the charity money. He's a nice guy and I'm sure you can trust him.:)

I'm guessing you meant this for somebody else, or maybe you're just not paying attention, probably both. That tick gets in the way...

The forum is closed, maybe you should stick to that one?

You didn't by chance snap a pic of this did you? :o
http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx223/slug1981/DSC00801.jpg

Sorry,Couldn't figure out how to resize it so you could read the tag.You can save it and zoom in with windows photo gallery to read it.

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx223/slug1981/DSC00801.jpg

Sorry,Couldn't figure out how to resize it so you could read the tag.You can save it and zoom in with windows photo gallery to read it.

Thanks! Did they send you gasket material or is the one installed still good?

I bought it used,So no warranty for me.This is the original driver.The factory gasket was put on in 4 strips,You can see the gaps in it where it could leak.I used some better gasket material on the box.

I bought it used,So no warranty for me.This is the original driver.The factory gasket was put on in 4 strips,You can see the gaps in it where it could leak.I used some better gasket material on the box.

Yeah, I saw the gaps but wasn't sure if they happened from removing the driver. After seeing your pics I'm going to check both of mine out.

Yeah, some definite gaps in the gasket, fer sure. By the way, is that a foam surround or rubber? It looks like foam on my monitor.

It's foam.

Forget the amp. That driver is pretty weak looking. :eek:

Forget the amp. That driver is pretty weak looking. :eek:

But in the hands of a capable man ;)

But in the hands of a capable man ;)

I guess. But you can only get so much juice out of a kumquat.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=146458&d=1246161717 before

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=146459&d=1246161738 after

On the av123 forum there is a thread that posted the rearrangement of wires to reduced the hum. I saved the two charts but did not remember the full text of disassembling and reassembling the sub. Anybody remember that? I did buy a few small sucktion cup from home depot to lft the back panel but they are too small and too weak.

146458

146459On the av123 forum there is a thread that posted the rearrangement of wires to reduced the hum. I saved the two charts but did not remember the full text of disassembling and reassembling the sub. Anybody remember that? I did buy a few small sucktion cup from home depot to lft the back panel but they are too small and too weak.

I haven't visited this site for a long long time and found that thread was disabled. What happened? I had the dual MFW-15 and haven't used them much in the past half of year. Was there a surge of blown up drivers or amplifiers? I knew there was a verbal heat on that post.

146458

146459On the av123 forum there is a thread that posted the rearrangement of wires to reduced the hum. I saved the two charts but did not remember the full text of disassembling and reassembling the sub. Anybody remember that? I did buy a few small sucktion cup from home depot to lft the back panel but they are too small and too weak.

Here is the link (http://forums.**********/showthread.php?t=36284) to the thread with instructions. Some people have pried, others used a pick like device in the screw hole (be careful not to damage the MDF), and others had good luck using zip ties through the speaker jacks. I used the suction cup from my GPS mount. It worked perfect.

The actual instructions are easy. Unplug. Place the sub with amp facing up. I put a towel on the sub to place the amp once removed. remove the screws, pull the amp straight up. It's a little heavy and requires some effort. Re-route the wires, reassemble. It takes more time to describe than to do the actual fix.

The wire re-route fixed my non-ground loop hum.

The sucktion cup on my GPS is too weak, so are the ones I bought from home depot. I eventually found a bolt that I can screw it onto the metal panel and pull it out with it, causing a little damage on the MDF.

Here is the photo I took after I lifted it and flipped it overonto the sub. So which wire I should separate? Thanks. (the link on the AV123 was broken)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=146497&d=1246207061

The photo is not complete in the last post. Here is the new one.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=146529&d=1246211503

After unrapping the tape. I guess I need to put the Red/Black wire at right side and the other two wires on the left side. I will see if I need some pins or tape to fasten the wires. The tape may fall off after heating or some time. Pin may be hard to pushed in.