New HT project - Silverwood - 16' x 19.5' x 12' [Text View]

jscifres

06-04-09, 03:11 PM

Pic of the day... (or hour, or week, depending on how much progress is happening)

Everything is done... almost...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0322-1.jpg?t=1288841824

Please note that I do edit this first post from time to time to make it easier for people to find the most recent and relevant information and pics, so the first page of responses is not necessarily relevant to the current status of the theater. Thanks.

Design philosophy: After researching this forum for about a year and saving images of my favorite theater designs, I formulated my design objective/philosophy... To create a uniquely styled and comfortable dedicated home theater where the room itself is the most important component. The room should have good acoustic properties. Room lighting and accents should be be highly artistic and effective yet not distracting. A/V equipment should be effective but not break the bank, realizing the law of diminishing returns.

Build philosophy: I'm pretty handy, but I'm not going to attempt anything like this by myself... so I hired an artist who is teamed up with A/V professionals and this room is now his canvas (subject to homeowner approval, of course!). I'm sure all the HT designers are craftsmen and take pride in their work... But this guy is an actual artist... who is also handy with a table saw. He designs and builds everything himself and isn't satisfied until it is perfect. I've never met anyone like him before and neither has anyone else working on the rest of the remodel project. When he has an idea, he'll draw it see if I have an interest in it, then actually build a miniature mock up for review... I have to get some pictures of those things to share.

Broke Ground: Oct 2009
Target completion: Sept 2010

Room size and design:
W: 16'
L: 19' - 6"
H: 10' base, up to ~12' above sofits.
Riser: ~16"
Noise isolation: Staggered stud and filled with insulation. Double Drywall with green goo on all surfaces. Also, the room is FAR away from anything or anyone who might be disturbed. HVAC unit is dedicated to the theater and adjacent game room.

Lighting:
7000+ Watts of lighting is going into this room separated into 12-14 groups, each individually controlled on a dimmer switch to allow fine tuning of the scenes. The wiring is in place, but we're not hot yet (4/14/2010) I'll post the dimmer switch and lighting control product information when we get ready to work on this.

Video:
Screen size: ~113" wide
Screen A/R: Going with 2.35...still working out the details.
Projector: Runco LS-5

Speakers:
L/R - Axiom M60
Center - Axiom VP180
Surrounds - Axiom Qs8 (x4)
Subwoofer - SVS PB13 Ultra

Receiver: NAD T765 : My only mandate was that I MUST be able to manually (on the fly) adjust the gain on the center channel. My local HT guys admitted this is nice to have, but said that most people don't ask for that... My question to the audio elite is: how can a room with a fixed audio profile (with presumably perfect calibration) be expected to handle the variability of the recordings in DVD's themselves? I've seen way too many professionally installed systems have terrible speech intelligibility (for some movies) because the center channel is running too quiet for a particular DVD. Anyway, I WILL have a receiver setup that allows me to manually adjust that center channel volume a few DBs. I think my A/V guy is saying that Newcastle receivers do this... And even better, they reset to the default program when shut down.

Media Sources:
Streaming Media: Samsung Blu-ray for now. May look at other options.
Media PC: Going with a HTPC for media storage and using SageTV for the UI.
Blue Ray: Samsung BD-C6900

Thanks!
-John

Here's the layout of the entire addition - While I wish I could add another 3-5 feet, I just can't get it.
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Addition.jpg

Here's the zoom in on the Home Theater.
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Hometheatercloseup.jpg

carboranadum

06-04-09, 03:16 PM

Welcome. I think you'll find this forum full of good folks that are very willing to lend a hand.

That's quite the space you have there. Where are you planning to house the A/V Equipment?

CJ

Cathan

06-04-09, 03:34 PM

Hi and welcome.

I'd rethink the TV. Unless you get something around 10' wide it's going to be tiny. Also, I'd look at getting the seats off the back wall. Finally, I'd advise you to use a theater designer and not an architect to pull the plans together. Does your guy understand theater acoustics?

zxlr8

06-04-09, 03:52 PM

I have about the same size place I am starting on. This should be interesting. Some speakers are designed to work well with with chairs against the wall. Specifically the Axiom Qs8s work well in that configuration.

autoboy70

06-04-09, 04:57 PM

I'm his brother. He's not that into the technology yet but I've been recommending Axiom speakers for him. We're pretty sure we're going for the QS8s and depending on what he does with the front screen (not a TV, the architect just called it that on the plans...) and the wall it hangs on we might go with some of their in walls or bookshelves like the M22.

I've been pushing for the equipment to go in front on the side or below the screen because it is easier to load a disk, rather than climbing over the rear seats.

Equipment will likely be:
Onkyo Receiver like an 806. Or maybe a Denon. He is partial to Harman Kardon but they lack new technologies.
Big SVS sub. Maybe a cylinder or two
Axiom Bookshelves and QS8s in 7.1
Unknown Projector
Unknown Screen
Unknown Blu-ray player
Wii
Satellite box w/ DVR

BIGmouthinDC

06-04-09, 07:52 PM

I'd make the room 3 feet longer. 1ft behind the rear seats and 2 feet for a false fabric wall hiding speakers up front. Add a stage and proscenium to make it feel like a real theater and give the space the WOW factor.

jscifres

06-05-09, 01:38 AM

Hi Z,

Thanks for introducing yourself, I'll keep my eye on your build. I've spent the last three weeks working out the room size and this was the best I could and I'm really happy with the size. Now, I'll just have to design the audio to compensate as best it can.

jscifres

06-05-09, 02:15 AM

Welcome. I think you'll find this forum full of good folks that are very willing to lend a hand.

That's quite the space you have there. Where are you planning to house the A/V Equipment?

CJ
It's not my favorite spot for equipment (in a perfect HT), but the best space available to me for equipment is a the 5'x5' closet in the back left corner of the room. It has excellent rear access, lots of room to work and should have plenty of ventilation options.

jscifres

06-06-09, 05:43 PM

Picked my chairs. Stressless by Ekornes

Roger Dressler

06-06-09, 08:19 PM

My wife and I just settled on our front row seats today. They are from the Stressless line by Ekornes.

They are super comfortable - like a Volvo seat
They individually recline without the footrest (really nice for me since I'm 6'7" and just about every recliner I'd tried doesn't have the length in the footrest and my feet dangle off the end) so I'll be putting my feet up on the ottoman.
Congrats on these--we felt the same and ordered two of the 3-seater Arions. I like them for the back row because without the footrest they can be pulled a couple feet forward, away from the back wall. Just a thought.

jscifres

06-06-09, 08:35 PM

jscifres

06-06-09, 08:38 PM

Congrats on these--we felt the same and ordered two of the 3-seater Arions. I like them for the back row because without the footrest they can be pulled a couple feet forward, away from the back wall. Just a thought.
Hi Roger,

One other thing... do you have a completed picture of your theater with those seats? I'm still seeking direction on my interior design and it would be interesting to see these seats in a completed theater.

Roger Dressler

06-07-09, 04:14 PM

Hi Roger,

That's great to hear about these seats working in the back row too... How far do you have to place them from the wall to allow them to recline fully?
As I don't have them yet, can't say exactly. As I recall, they do not recline very far, maybe 6" behind the rear legs, max. And without the headrests it's of course a little less.

One other thing... do you have a completed picture of your theater with those seats? I'm still seeking direction on my interior design and it would be interesting to see these seats in a completed theater. The theater is about 75% complete, and the Arions (black Batick leather) are not due to arrive from Norway until end of June. The color scheme is:
deep red and black paint, wood trim with medium stain, black GOM acoustic panels, and olive green carpet. The room is smaller than yours, just 11.5' wide, 17' long, 8' high. 13" tall riser extends 70" from back.

I'm taking pictures of the build, but haven't posted any yet. Here's a couple of teasers.

In the first one you see the timber frame arch which is 3' from the front wall, and behind it will be the drop-down screen and motorized black velvet drapes.
144665

The next picture shows the ceiling cloud installed, and the diffusor panels on the side walls near the surround speaker boxes.
144666

The last picture shows the Center speaker and power amps on a stand I made of oak. The speaker is at 5 degrees tilt as it will be right at the bottom edge of the screen, 27" off the floor.
144668

Oh, and here's a picture of a nice home theater in Norway using Ekornes seating:

http://static1.avforum.no/minhjemmekino/users/wmorig/66dbeae03abbaee2f16b56cae8635012.JPG

jscifres

06-07-09, 11:37 PM

Hi Roger,

Thanks for sharing some early details on your build, as it sounds like you are building a very nice room. Also, a big thank you for sending me that picture of the theater in Norway. I'm really glad to see how good those seats look in there. And, although I was thinking about a more traditional design in my theater... that theater looks great and is probably more in tune with the design of the seats. Simple, elegant, Clean.

autoboy70

06-08-09, 01:21 PM

The seats look great. Any idea what you are doing for the speakers? Building them into cabinets along the screen? where and how are you placing the subwoofers? Subs tucked in a cabinet don't leave flexibility for room tuning and can get boomy if not designed right.

John seems to have trouble with center channel clarity on systems he's auditioned. I've never had an issue with my Axioms. Has that been a problem for anyone else? Is easy access to a center channel level button important?

jscifres

06-10-09, 02:14 AM

Roger Dressler

06-10-09, 04:43 AM

If what I'm reading on the forums is correct, it would seem that my primary concern with regard to speakers should be to try to fit 3 identical speakers on my screen wall to cover Left, center and right.

Sounds like horizontal speakers are a big compromise. I'm thinking that given the height of my room (10' minimum), I should have room to use three identical speakers. But I'm not really interested in doing a perforated screen, so that would mean I have to place a vertical speaker above or below my screen... Ok, so there's room, but that would end up not being at the same level as my L & R front speakers...

So if three identical speakers with a perf screen is ideal, what is the least compromise if I don't do a perf screen?

1. Left - cabinet mid level, Center - above screen, Right -Cabinet mid level
2. All speakers placed on the same level under the screen and angled up
3. All speakers placed on the same level over the screen and angled down
4. Left - cabinet mid level, Center - below screen, Right -Cabinet mid level IMHO, Option 4. When you say mid level, let's refine that to mean the tweeters are roughly ear level for the "money" row--that's about 40". With a 10' ceiling, your screen can be as high as maybe 30" off the floor. That means the difference in height between L/R and center would be about 1 foot, whereas if the center speaker is above the screen, it would be 3-4' higher than L/R. It's much better if the heights L/C/R can be kept within 2' or less to promote smoother lateral panning.

The problem with horizontal center speakers is usually that they are 2-way designs, and it's not possible to obtain good off-axis response because the woofers run too high in freq and cause lobing. With a 3-way speaker, with a vertically stacked tweeter/midrange, this problem can be avoided. Yes, if you can use 3 identical speakers, great. But with careful selection, other options can work well, too. To see an example of the preferred driver config, see the Triad In-Room Gold LCR.

In either case, do tilt the C speaker up so it aims directly at the listener's heads. That will keep the drivers better aligned for best response.

dc_pilgrim

06-10-09, 09:19 AM

I've seen way too many professionally installed systems have terrible speech intelligibility (for some movies) because the center channel is running too quiet for a particular DVD.

If you aren't already, plan on acoustic treatments, and perhaps some advice on where to put them (there are some guys here who help on that front).

My wife and I just settled on our front row seats today. They are from the Stressless line by Ekornes.

Those are really sharp looking seats with great features. I assume they aren't cheap, what kind of ballpark do they run in your config (if you don't mind).

I think you should consider flipping the room and entering from the rear, at the riser level with the step outside the room. It is much more dramatic. Might require you to flip the orientation of the door (or it might hit the seats), which CA code might not like. Worth looking into though.

autoboy70

06-10-09, 01:30 PM

Is off axis response really that much of an issue? I haven't noticed it on my two way horizontal Axiom VP100.

He could also go with two centers, one above and one below the screen. A couple of small bookshelves would work well for this. Wired in parallel. It does require a bit more amp but it could be worth it so the money seats and the back seats get good sound.

If he is hiding his speakers behind acoustic fabric, mounted in cabinets, does he need to worry about having rear ported speakers? Should they have ports in front? Or be sealed boxes?

jscifres

06-10-09, 02:00 PM

In case anyone is interested, I posted a request for advice on speakers from Axiom. They do have a pretty neat request form which helps them recommend a system. I know they are probably steering me to some of their more expensive stuff, but at the same time, the extra cost isn't going to break the bank, so why not go with the config recommended by the speaker company themselves?

Note: I did especially appreciate the recommendation for the receiver given my request for center volume control.

Here's my request, which I sent along with the current floor plan.

------------------------------------

I'm seeking advice on a 7.1 system setup with Axiom speakers. I'm thinking of using the following setup for 7.1...

Axiom Audio M22 bookshelf
Axiom Audio VP150 center Channel
Axiom Audio QS8 surround Speakers
Axiom Audio EP 350 sub for decent bass or EP500 for big time bass

The room is 16'x19'x10' (WxLxH) with a raised ceiling (up to 12') centered in the middle of the room. Attached is a floorplan with approximate seating configuration.

Here's the response from Axiom's "expert".

Hi John,

My name is JC (Jean-Claude). I am an expert audio advisor at Axiom.

I thank you for your interest in Axiom Award-winning audio speakers and taking the time to send us in your request. Your sketch is well done and is very helpful.

You seem concerned about the center speaker level and dialog intelligibility. I am proposing you a system which will exceed your expectations on the performance of the center speaker avoiding the need to constantly play with the volume level. Once the initial adjustment and set-up completed there will be no need to modify its level.

For your application, you should consider the Axiom Epic 60 – 500 in an 8.1 configuration Home Theatre Ensemble - http://www.axiomaudio.com/epic60_500.html. It consists of a 7.1 system (main left, main right, center, side surround left, side surround right, rear surround left, rear surround right and a subwoofer) with an additional center speaker. You install one center speaker on a wall bracket or a stand below the screen aiming at the ear level of the first row of seated listeners and a second one mounted on a wall or ceiling bracket aiming at the ear level of the second row of seated listeners.
http://www.axiomaudio.com/fullmetalbracket.html
http://www.axiomaudio.com/fullmetalceilingbracket.html
http://www.axiomaudio.com/fmscc.html

Furthermore, the Axiom VP150v2 center speaker offers exceptional dialog intelligibility with superior dispersion. The Newcastle A/V receiver R-872 will be able to power both center speakers from its single pair of center channel binding posts. The Newcastle A/V receiver is warmly recommended by Axiom to power its brand of speakers. You can buy it from Axiom benefiting from free delivery and the 5% home theatre discount.
http://www.axiomaudio.com/sherwood_r872.html

The Newcastle offers you the flexibility to adjust independently the center speaker volume level if you desire.

For the main speakers a tower or floor standing model would be more appropriate for your application it will provide you with a fuller and smoother room filling sound at lower volume which you prefer. I will email back your sketch from my personal Axiom email account with a suggestion to position your Axiom speakers shortly.

Thanks again for your e-mail! If you would like me to me to follow-up directly by phone, just drop me a line with an appropriate time and a number for me to do so. Alternatively, you are always welcome to dial Axiom's toll-free number (1-866-244-8796) - any of our Audio Experts would be pleased to help.

Have a nice day!

JC

jscifres

06-10-09, 02:21 PM

If you aren't already, plan on acoustic treatments, and perhaps some advice on where to put them (there are some guys here who help on that front).

Those are really sharp looking seats with great features. I assume they aren't cheap, what kind of ballpark do they run in your config (if you don't mind).

I think you should consider flipping the room and entering from the rear, at the riser level with the step outside the room. It is much more dramatic. Might require you to flip the orientation of the door (or it might hit the seats), which CA code might not like. Worth looking into though.

Thanks, and yeah, I do plan to have acoustic treatments in the room. I started out kind of thinking I'd hire a home theater professional to design and install the room, but as I move forward, I'm realizing that I'm kind of making more decisions on the design than I expected. That, and wiring should be pretty easy in my room, given all the access points (attic, interior walls, dedicated A/V closet...)

UPDATE: APRIL 2010... I did end up hiring someone pretty awesome...

The seats are REALLY great, especially for a tall guy like myself because the headrest extends and there is no built in footrest that ends up being too short for me. But, they really aren't cheap. Some of the most expensive chairs I'd seen in some HT stores were around $1400/seat. The furniture store selling my seats is asking $9500 for my four seat config. I asked if that price was negotiable and she said no. But, I have to believe there is some discount to be had. When I get closer to a final interior design, I will start calling around and see who will give me a price break.
I can flip the door to open outside the HT quite easily and it was something I was considering regardless of the room layout inside. I hadn't thought of putting a step up to the back riser outside the door. I'm not sure if the benefit is enough to justify the awkwardness of the steps intruding into my game room, but at this point, I'm still open to ideas.

jscifres

04-07-10, 02:07 AM

UPDATE: April 2010...Theater under construction... Posting pictures asap

Elill

04-07-10, 02:37 AM

Nice to see another cozy room going in! Good luck with it.

Roger's thread provides plently of good ideas for rooms of this size.....you could also have a look at mine, but its very, very early days

Roger, those seats are very nice, we're planning something similar for our back row....when it happens. I still want something comfy for the money seats though

Oh one last thing, you're going to want multiple subs and wire for every possible location - I've made my bed on this front having already purchased, which I reget having learnt many a thing about the issue

jscifres

04-07-10, 02:49 AM

Been a while... long story short: 1) I've been remodeling my house for about 6 months and the home theater was a key reason to move forward with the project, and 2) I hired an artist to build out my theater, albeit an artist with a few tricks up his sleeve...

I need to post some sequential pics of the buildout, but I can't wait to post some teaser shots of how the theater looks right now...

I will be trying to post an organized build thread here, but I'm way behind, so I may be doing more current updates vs. rehashing the early stuff.

For the record, I'm of the philosophy that the theater itself is the most important component here, so the design and build out of the room has been my primary focus to date (making sure that we keep acoustics in mind all the time).

The style may not be for everyone, but I hope you can appreciate the detail going forward.

jscifres

04-07-10, 03:45 AM

Several more images...

Walking in...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Construction%20Images/IMG_0704.jpg?t=1270626224
Teardrops spaning soffit
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Construction%20Images/IMG_0675.jpg?t=1270626550
Teardrops span about 18 inches down from the raised ceiling
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Construction%20Images/IMG_0685.jpg?t=1270626641
One of the lighting fixtures...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Construction%20Images/IMG_0719.jpg?t=1270628654
Scale image
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Construction%20Images/IMG_0700-copy.jpg?t=1270626707

adammb

04-07-10, 08:17 AM

Wow:eek::eek:. Very cool. Can't wait to see the final product.

Elill

04-07-10, 08:27 AM

wow, thats one special ceilimg!

theWalkinator

04-07-10, 11:07 AM

Wow, what a ceiling, it resembles to guitar chamber, just out of curiosity, what is the big ideas behind of this particular design? Does this design carries some specific acoustic properties?

jscifres

04-07-10, 11:32 AM

Wow, what a ceiling, it resembles to guitar chamber, just out of curiosity, what is the big ideas behind of this particular design? Does this design carries some specific acoustic properties?

Aside from installing a lot of curves, points and general randomness in the acoustic reflection angles, the short answer is...no.

A slightly longer answer is that there are two guys working on this theater. One is the interior designer/builder and the other is a reputable A/V installer. The two have worked on a few significant installations together before, with very nice results and the acoustics were definitely considered before the A/V guy ok'd this design.

The teardrops on the ceiling will likely be filled with insulation to avoid any undesirable reverberation.

jscifres

04-07-10, 12:56 PM

Here are some images from the early stages of construction

Staggered Studs (sure make it tough to move around the house during construction...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0107.jpg?t=1270657637

Future screen wall...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0311.jpg?t=1270659311

Good picture showing the back wall of the theater and the optima blown in insulation. In the hopefully VERY distant future, if or when I decide to sell, the new owner COULD easily rip out the HT and convert this room to a master guest suite because the back wall already has a header in for a door to access a full bath. There's also a header in place which would allow for a sliding glass window and access to the patio outside (barely visible in this image on upper right corner). The A/V equipment room is on the left. You can see the ducting on the bottom left which will be: 1) an air return placed in the riser, and 2) a duct to pull air from the theater into the equipment room when a temp controlled fan kicks on.
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0324.jpg?t=1270658390

Ceiling is coved, finished and ready for paint...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0221.jpg?t=1270658860

Painting primer on screen wall...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0272.jpg?t=1270659143

Sofit has a black base and the upper ceiling is a darker royal blue, illuminated by blue rope lights above the sofit...http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0280.jpg?t=1270659452

Ready for to install teardrop ceiling beams!

jscifres

04-07-10, 01:25 PM

The main design element of the ceiling is what we're calling the teardrop beams. There are four of them spanning the width of the room and bolted to the sofit. The construction of these pieces is worth a closer look. Not that anyone will ever try to copy it.

Each teardrop beam is actually two separate halves, to be joined in the middle. This is an early pic of the teardrop bones being fabricated in the workshop...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0283.jpg?t=1270661030

Another angle...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0284.jpg?t=1270661351

Finished teardrop (1/2): you can see the bones of the teardrop and the clips for holding the rope light... These will likely be filled with insulation upon listening to the room acoustics...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0305.jpg?t=1270661432

Another angle... each one of these weigh about 30 lbs - very light weight but rigid...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0303.jpg?t=1270661978

Waiting to be installed...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0307.jpg?t=1270661632

Putting up the first one...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0298.jpg?t=1270661786

Mario... the one man crew...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0300.jpg?t=1270661919

Teardrop fitting onto sofit... Darn cell phone camera in low light...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0308.jpg?t=1270662058

This angle shows where the steel connecting bar slides in. The center of each half gets connected to each other via a steel bar bolted to both halves. The result is a very rigid beam with less flex than a 2x4 joist...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0299.jpg?t=1270662160

Ducks are lined up in a row... in case you had noticed the misalignment of the sofits in the earlier pics of the room, this was so that the bottom of the teardrop beams would line up with the front and rear sofit. Here you can see the alignment to the rear sofit...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0319.jpg?t=1270662333

Getting trimmed... The trim is a copper metallic painted MDF, with black trim to accent the metallic pieces... The metallic trim is finished with a flat, non reflective clear seal which looks great and supposedly will reduce light reflections...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0345.jpg?t=1270662628

Final angle looking up to show the span and shape of a teardrop beam...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0674.jpg?t=1270662875

warrenP

04-07-10, 01:28 PM

Looking good. Love the ceiling!

In2Photos

04-07-10, 01:54 PM

That ceiling looks awesome! WOW!

jscifres

04-07-10, 01:59 PM

I've got a lot of pictures from other things going into the theater that I figure I'll share... Not going to explain much yet... Just teasing out the pics...

something for wall...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0285.jpg?t=1270663125

Something for wall...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0287.jpg?t=1270663212

Something for wall...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0286.jpg?t=1270663266

jscifres

04-07-10, 02:03 PM

I've got a lot of pictures from other things going into the theater that I figure I'll share... Not going to explain much yet... Just teasing out the pics...

Two things in this one... chandelier and baseboard...http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0290.jpg?t=1270663323

Color selection exercise...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0291.jpg?t=1270663496

In case you were wondering what the clips on the bottoms of the teardrop beams are for... Paint color is primer...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0328.jpg?t=1270663582

These are actually already up now, but I like this picture...http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0694.jpg?t=1270663865

In2Photos

04-07-10, 02:06 PM

jscifres

04-07-10, 02:09 PM

are these milled by hand or using a cnc machine?

by hand. :)

This guy works very hard.

jscifres

04-07-10, 06:52 PM

These chandeliers will be hung in the voids created by the teardrops. They are built so that the only light escaping them will be directly down.
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0350-1.jpg?t=1270680423

The actual teardrops which will be attached to the bottoms of the beams.
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0353.jpg?t=1270680514

To decorate the front and back sofit...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0357.jpg?t=1270680583

KNKKNK

04-07-10, 07:36 PM

That's cool John... Very intriguing!!

jscifres

04-07-10, 11:25 PM

That's cool John... Very intriguing!!

Thanks. Although I'm not physically building the theater, I've been very hands on throughout and know more about what's going into this theater than the average non-DIY owner. That said, so much of the design direction was left very open so that my guy could flex some creative muscle. That was a not so insignificant leap of faith in the beginning for the control freak in me... (I amassed hundreds of pictures of home theaters to identify what I liked back when I was considering a DIY project) but I couldn't be happier turning the reigns over to someone who I'm confident cares as much about the room as I do.

autoboy70

04-08-10, 02:06 PM

Wow, that guy is really going to town on the woodworking. How long is all this taking? It seems like he's getting it done really quickly

SinisterJ

04-08-10, 02:35 PM

I must say I cannot wait to see the final finished product!!! Im Subscribed!

Derry

04-08-10, 03:07 PM

Very impressive,,

Derry

jscifres

04-08-10, 04:30 PM

Wow, that guy is really going to town on the woodworking. How long is all this taking? It seems like he's getting it done really quickly

A few notes on the timeline...

He does work quite fast, but this has been a long process. The timing has been dictated more by the overall remodel than anything going on in the theater.

We broke ground for the 1200 SF + 900 SF (garage) addition in October of 2009, so although I had hired the designer and A/V pro back in September of 2009, he couldn't really work inside the room until it was framed. This was, of course, a very conscious decision on my part because I wanted the design set very early so that while we were framing the room, we could place the sofit just right, place wood blocks in the wall or ceiling where we were hanging items, put power and HVAC where it was needed, etc... Yes, my designer made quite a few cameo appearances during framing to make sure that everything was going according to the plan... The builder actually loved that because no one got chewed out after screwing something up! ;)

You might notice from the pictures that most of the teaser shots are from within the designer's workshop. So while he couldn't work on site during construction, he has been fabricating virtually everything off site, until now. Now the installation looks REALLy fast, but it will slow down as soon as he starts to build the riser and proscenium. The wall panels are still in pieces, but he has most of the parts cut already for that as well.

The design phase took about a month or so...

Mario (the designer) was hired in September and that same week he met with us at our home to begin a design discovery process that I can best describe as thoroughly unique. Well, I should add that it was also really fun.

Among other things, the oddest task we performed was when he had us go through a book of hundreds of beer labels, two to a page, and making us pick the one we liked better of the two and describe why. Did the same thing with colors and also with pictures of family rooms, kitchens, entry halls, etc...

So from all this info, the designer drew scaled drawings of a proposed room with the design elements that he thought we might like. From the day that I hired him, I had been dead set having a very high, dark starfield ceiling. So although I liked what he was showing us, I was definitely hesitating to approve his more unique design idea (the teardrop beams).

What followed was a pretty standard back and forth until he showed up one day with this...

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0356.jpg?t=1270758036

This scale mock up was about 2 feet long and gave me the confidence that this was going to work...

Oh, and over the last few months I've liked the guy so much that I subsequently commissioned him to design our fireplace in the game room... This is the mock up for that...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0355.jpg?t=1270758554

Perhaps you all can tell... I'm very high on this guy. I have this little personality trait that when I get excited, I can't stop talking about something. I suppose it's probably really annoying to people who don't care as much as I do... :)

adammb

04-08-10, 05:03 PM

jscifres

04-08-10, 05:12 PM

I must say I cannot wait to see the final finished product!!! Im Subscribed!

Awesome!!! Thanks, you might be the first! :)

Chandeliers are going in as we speak. I'll have a few pics from that soon.

jscifres

04-08-10, 05:45 PM

You very rarely see work like this and so creative. Also, that he went so far to convince you what he was doing would work. It's hard for alot of people to grasp what very creative people are thinking.

I wish he lived closer and I may have used him myself. How did you go about finding someone like him?

He absolutely blew me away when he showed up with that model of the ceiling.

And he continues to impress with things like the little light fixtures which join the teardrop beams (a few pics of those are up). Those were never in the plans... I just said I wanted some lights in that area and he comes up with these...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0693.jpg?t=1270761472

And I just noticed that when I look right up at one of these, the arms go in the direction of the beams...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0776_2.jpg?t=1270771112

Good story for the AVS Forum about how I found him, because he's very new to the HT design business...

His first theater was a featured theater on this site (home page feature) last summer. I read the article, but didn't read that he was local to me and pretty much paid it no mind (I honestly didn't care for the style, but applauded the workmanship and his attention to the room lighting). I was just kind of coming to the conclusion that I might not have the time to tackle the theater design myself and I began to look into several designers (some big names from the forums here and google searching them out...) About a week or two later, I was just browsing a luxury home magazine in my, um, office... and I noticed a small ad placed by an A/V installer in our area which was clearly the same theater that I'd seen featured here. So I called them up and asked them if they did that theater. When they said that it was indeed their work, I paid them a visit. That's where I learned that they teamed up with this interior designer, with him doing the design and the A/V pros looking on, assisting the design and getting the work on the equipment... I checked out his website, called him up and he came over to interview. That day, the most impressive thing that he said was that he designs and builds EVERYTHING himself. That impressed me a lot and the rest is history.

His prior work was doing all the interior design for the offices of a very large home builder in the Sacramento area. He built cabinets, mantles, desks, reception rooms, chandeliers, you name it. The owner of the company grew to trust him with complete creative freedom and just gave him a budget and expected to be wowed. My understanding is that he delivered every time. BUT, the homebuilder went belly up during the housing bust and left my designer scrambling for work.

I'm the VERY lucky one, as timing is everything... I came along as he had just gotten one significant theater under his belt to prove his mettle and I got him for an absolute steal. That said, not once has he tried to nickel and dime me for anything. He promised he'd wow us for the budget and he just keeps adding cool stuff that he feels will make an impact.

I think I mentioned it earlier... I've never met anyone with the same skill set. He has a very creative and artistic vision, and also has a strong sense for engineering (those beams are very well constructed), and who has an absolutely unmatched work ethic (cuz he loves what he does).

jscifres

04-08-10, 05:59 PM

I wish he lived closer and I may have used him myself. How did you go about finding someone like him?

Hi Adam,

I really haven't been on the forums much lately, so I just saw your redo of your theater today. The red ribs that you put in are very much like what we're doing for the front and back sofits and I liked seeing how yours turned out. I also read that you were considering a trim piece between the ribs, which actually is exactly what we're planning here. There is a picture in one of my teaser shots that shows how he's doing it. Just a small wood rod that will snuggle nicely in that groove... Don't know if that's what you were thinking, but I thought I'd bring it to your attention if you hadn't considered it.

jscifres

04-08-10, 07:36 PM

Today, the Chandeliers are going in. These are custom built by the installer to fit the gaps created by the beams. The goal was to create a fixture which could provide light on the seating areas without spilling light onto the ceiling or other elements in the room. The top cap has been designed to allow heat to escape the unit, but no light.

Here is the view from below as one is being hung...

-----------
EDIT: After hanging the chandeliers, we decided to change how they're hung. Updates to follow.

-----------

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0747_2.jpg?t=1270768502

There is a ring that is fit around the outlet and attached to wood blocks left in the ceiling before drywall....

-----------
EDIT: This ring was ugly, the wires were ugly, it just didn't look as good as anticipated... Once we remove this hanging setup, we'll lose the outlet and smooth the ceiling again.

------------

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0752_2.jpg?t=1270769846

While I'm up here, I thought I'd take a shot up above the beams. You can just make out the rows of blue rope light above the sofit...

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0753_2.jpg?t=1270770133

Look Mom... NO HANDS! One down, two to go...

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0775_2.jpg?t=1270770467

I must say, I was skeptical that the wire thing would work and keep the chandelier centered in the opening, but after measuring on the first attempt, he got the distance to each beam's center to be the same to within 1/8 of an inch. Anything less than 1/2 of an inch off would not be noticed, so we're well within an eyeball's tolerance.

-----------
EDIT: Overall, once all three were hung, we could tell that there was a very slight alignment problem in getting all three to be aligned exactly the same. The new method will fix this problem.
-----------

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0772_2.jpg?t=1270770561

jscifres

04-08-10, 09:19 PM

looking up...

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0782.jpg?t=1270775823

and the back wall...

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0786.jpg?t=1270775909

and the screen wall....

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0787.jpg?t=1270775960

jscifres

04-08-10, 11:56 PM

What do you all think would be a good material to insulate the insides of these teardrop beams??? I have time to decide, so there's no rush, but I'm contemplating spray in foam, blown in insulation, or just stuffing it with regular insulation.

My goal is to have a clean and easy solution which will be effective at killing any sound that bounces off the ceiling and into the teardrop beams... Here's a good shot of the beam on the ground.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0303.jpg?t=1270661978

adammb

04-09-10, 08:10 AM

Hi Adam,

I really haven't been on the forums much lately, so I just saw your redo of your theater today. The red ribs that you put in are very much like what we're doing for the front and back sofits and I liked seeing how yours turned out. I also read that you were considering a trim piece between the ribs, which actually is exactly what we're planning here. There is a picture in one of my teaser shots that shows how he's doing it. Just a small wood rod that will snuggle nicely in that groove... Don't know if that's what you were thinking, but I thought I'd bring it to your attention if you hadn't considered it.

Thanks for the info John. I hadnt made up my mind yet and thought I would add it at a later time. I was initially just thinking about a painted strip but I really like the idea of a dowel rod. It would add so much depth to it.:D.

Btw. Your theater makes me want to give up. LOL I wish there was a smile icon for jaw on the floor. I get so excited now everytime I see a new post from you. LOL:D

hanesian

04-09-10, 08:10 AM

Oh, Toto ... I don't think we're in Kansas any more! :eek:

Totally blown away!

Totally subscribed!

In2Photos

04-09-10, 08:25 AM

adammb

04-09-10, 08:55 AM

jscifres

04-09-10, 10:46 AM

Chandeliers look awesome! Is there a plan to hide the mounting bracket (the wood ring on the ceiling) or will it be visible?

As far as insulation goes I would use standard insulation (wither Rockwool or the pink fluffy stuff) over spray foam or blown in. And don't pack it in, just make sure you fill it loosely.

So the idea is to have the chandelier float from the ceiling with the wires and brackets nearly invisible from most angles. However, after I had some time to look more closely at how we're hanging them, I'm now wondering how the heck he plans to get the cord up to the mounting bracket... If we're just going to hang it up the middle, then a chain up the middle might have been a more discreet way to hang them... I'll talk to him about it today.

Thanks for the advice about the insulation. That does sound like an easy way to do it. If I just leave exposed insulation up there, it wont produce a bunch of dust, will it? I don't know if that stuff sheds when left untouched or not.

jscifres

04-09-10, 10:59 AM

I was just thinking that it would be so awesome if you could setup some sort of projector system that would project a moving sky on the ceiling above the teardrops. Especially since the ceiling is curved and you don't see any corners.

Again, Such an awesome build.

Interesting idea. Maybe a future Version 2...

I love that the ceiling has no corners and am glad you noticed. Actually, the designer will be glad you noticed. It was something that he came in and fixed after the drywall guys had curved it and finished it with corners (kind of like crown molding comes together). They had also finished it with imperfect smooth texture and he had to smooth the ceiling before painting.

jscifres

04-09-10, 11:17 AM

Btw. Your theater makes me want to give up.

Good, that's the intention! LOL, just kidding.

I'm very impressed with all the theaters that I see on the forums here, including your ribbed one. I got my inspiration from so many pictures on this site that it makes my head spin. Course, my inspiration was then transformed by someone far more creative than me. But while designing this theater, I introduced my designer to this site and to images from at least 30 theaters posted on this forum and other sources... sometimes just to show him my preferences for a seemingly insignificant detail. He loves seeing the creative stuff from here and I personally like seeing just about every theater picture that I can get my hands on, and I'm still looking for ideas while we build this out.

No, the part that would actually make you want to give up would be if you knew how much I was paying for all this. :cool:

jscifres

04-09-10, 01:21 PM

Even though it looks pretty good in the pictures, there's a slight change to how we're going to hang the chandeliers...

Instead of hanging the chandeliers from the ceiling, we're going to attach them to the beams and eliminate the connection to the ceiling. There are quite a few benefits to this, the biggest of which is that the ceiling will return to being uncluttered.

So, no progress will be made in the theater while Mario creates the new brackets. But, we should have the teardrops and lighting for the ceiling in place next week.

autoboy70

04-09-10, 01:55 PM

Is there a plan to do a curve to the screen wall?

I can't wait to see what the walls will look like.

How is he going to hide the speakers?

adammb

04-09-10, 02:21 PM

I hope he didnt end up creating a triple leaf effect by adding the more gradual curve. If he did that could effect the sound transmittance to the above or adjacent rooms. But yes I noticed it and loved it. I had similar thought but since my ceiling is like half of yours I had to make cuts.

Price wise I think I am getting a steal doing most myself especially the design. I wish I had money to relieve my stress from doing it all but I just can't justify spending such a chunk of money on something like this when I can do it myself. This is definitely not my last theater so I will try to out do you next time. LOL:D

autoboy70

04-09-10, 02:47 PM

jscifres

04-09-10, 03:04 PM

The theater room is completely removed from the normal living space in the house. The house is single story so nothing is above the theater.

The bedrooms are all the way on the other side of the house, the theater is attached to a game room which is attached to the family room. He also used staggered studs to isolate the room. The fear though is that the open at the top dog bone teardrops will reverberate some sound inside their hollow structure. Hopefully that isn't the case.

Yes, the room is well removed from anyone who might complain about noise, thanks for chiming in. With the staggered studs, the blown in insulation, the double drywall with GG, and separate HVAC system, I'm reasonably confident that sound won't escape. The weakest point will be the door. Unfortunately, the door isn't even installed yet to test it, because there is power running into it from the doorjamb and we're waiting on parts...

jscifres

04-09-10, 03:07 PM

Price wise I think I am getting a steal doing most myself especially the design. I wish I had money to relieve my stress from doing it all but I just can't justify spending such a chunk of money on something like this when I can do it myself.

From what I can see, you've done a great job.

misugrad

04-09-10, 07:42 PM

John- I like the design details and your Mario find is a diamond in the rough. Look forward to watching this one mature! :)

The tear drop panels that will attach to the bottom of your beams; what were those made of? They look cool painted over.

jscifres

04-09-10, 10:59 PM

The tear drop panels that will attach to the bottom of your beams; what were those made of? They look cool painted over.

I'm not exactly certain what the material is called... I've heard Mario talk about it before, but it just never registered. I'll ask him again. From what I can tell...it is a very hard foam board that is mounted onto MDF and which can then be cut and scraped into shape. There are some pictures of a bunch of random shapes laid out on the floor in the teaser pics... that is the same material after it has been scraped. Those shapes are then plastered with a paper mache technique and then sanded down before being painted. Most of his stand alone artwork is made with the same technique, so he's very skilled with it.

Audixium

04-10-10, 10:00 AM

Love everything! I think your designer is going to make a good living at this. :cool:

dododge

04-11-10, 03:01 AM

Thanks for the advice about the insulation. That does sound like an easy way to do it. If I just leave exposed insulation up there, it wont produce a bunch of dust, will it? I don't know if that stuff sheds when left untouched or not.

I would be very wary of leaving blown fiberglass open to the room air. I have it in my attic and even though the air is pretty still and I can't see the dust, after working up there for a while I can really start to feel it in my eyes, nose, and throat.

You might consider UltraTouch cotton insulation (http://www.bondedlogic.com/ultratouch-cotton.htm). I don't think they have a blown version but the bats can be cut or even torn by hand to fit. The best thing about it is that no protective gear is required to work with it. It does produce some lint-like dust when being handled but even that isn't an irritant. I put in a wall of it a few weeks ago and my impression is that it doesn't produce much if any dust when left alone.

jscifres

04-11-10, 03:16 AM

I would be very wary of leaving blown fiberglass open to the room air. I have it in my attic and even though the air is pretty still and I can't see the dust, after working up there for a while I can really start to feel it in my eyes, nose, and throat.

You might consider UltraTouch cotton insulation (http://www.bondedlogic.com/ultratouch-cotton.htm). I don't think they have a blown version but the bats can be cut or even torn by hand to fit. The best thing about it is that no protective gear is required to work with it. It does produce some lint-like dust when being handled but even that isn't an irritant. I put in a wall of it a few weeks ago and my impression is that it doesn't produce much if any dust when left alone.

The dust is definitely my biggest concern, especially since I do plan to leave it open. Thanks for the suggestion. I'll look into it and report back here when we reach that step (it may be a while though... after we test the room acoustics).

jscifres

04-13-10, 07:14 PM

Today, Mario has put in three finished teardrops which finish the beams... I'll be uploading a few pics of these. Tomorrow, all 8 of them will be up and we'll be lighting the ceiling to test everything up there soon...

This picture shows the smooth and rounded finish on the teardrops. They are finished with a very smooth and low sheen glaze.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/photo.jpg?t=1271200165

MARIOARTS

04-13-10, 08:42 PM

I'm not exactly certain what the material is called... I've heard Mario talk about it before, but it just never registered. I'll ask him again. From what I can tell...it is a very hard foam board that is mounted onto MDF and which can then be cut and scraped into shape. There are some pictures of a bunch of random shapes laid out on the floor in the teaser pics... that is the same material after it has been scraped. Those shapes are then plastered with a paper mache technique and then sanded down before being painted. Most of his stand alone artwork is made with the same technique, so he's very skilled with it.

Just thought I'd chime in on this question. I'm Mario and I hope it's ok if I join the thread. John's close. The product is called Trymer 1800. It’s tech name is polyisocyanurate insulation. It's typically used to insulate pipes that reach extreme temps which also give it the ability to stand caltalyzed adhesives without melting. I order the "block" size that I need and glue it, with fiberglass resin, to 1/2 inch MDF (medium density fiberboard), that has been cut to the final shape. The excess foam is cut away and a "scraper" is build to match the profile and mounted to a plate that can glide on a table top. After many passes the shape you see in this picture is done. Two layers of plaster gauze material is used to seal the foam and give it strength. Joint compound was applied and sanded 3 times at factory viscocity. Watered down joint compound was applied until it was totally smooth with 220 grit sandpaper. Five coats of oil based primer was applied and sanded between each coat. The base color, two fauxed darker shades, and the metalic color were applied and the rim of "air brushed" black was sprayed on. Five coats of flat clear polyurethane were sprayed and sanded between each coat until an automotive finish was achieved. And that is has it's done. :eek:

jscifres

04-14-10, 01:50 AM

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0869.jpg?t=1271224180

jscifres

04-14-10, 01:53 AM

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0874.jpg?t=1271224365

jscifres

04-14-10, 01:56 AM

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0877.jpg?t=1271224531

jscifres

04-14-10, 02:01 AM

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0868.jpg?t=1271224833

jscifres

04-14-10, 12:48 PM

This is what's inside a Teardrop. The Rope light is set back from the sides and the white plastic piece serves as a light diffuser so we don't see the individual lights reflected on the beam above.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0879.jpg?t=1271263623

Another View...

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0890.jpg?t=1271263659

jscifres

04-14-10, 12:54 PM

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0883.jpg?t=1271264073

jscifres

04-14-10, 12:56 PM

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0885.jpg?t=1271264113

jscifres

04-14-10, 12:59 PM

While we were on the ladder and lighting stuff up...

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0886.jpg?t=1271264366

another angle...

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0887.jpg?t=1271264534

Stereodude

04-14-10, 01:00 PM

That is a very impressive looking ceiling! :)

autoboy70

04-14-10, 01:24 PM

Wow, cool. I didn't realize that is where the light was going to come from. I thought they would come from the tops of the teardrops.

calbear

04-14-10, 01:44 PM

jscifres

04-14-10, 01:48 PM

Wow, cool. I didn't realize that is where the light was going to come from. I thought they would come from the tops of the teardrops.

Well, there is a blue rope light mounted on top of the teardrop beams if that is what you were thinking about. But that's not installed yet (blue rope light is backordered).

There are over 7000 Watts of lights being installed in this room (if everything was turned on with full power - which thankfully wont happen often). The potential power usage is one reason why I also put in a pretty big solar system on the roof as part of the remodel. Each lighting group is separately controlled so that we can fine tune the lighting scenes. I'll post some information about the lighting control in the near future.

Pic of the dimmer switches (some on backorder) for the 12 groups of lights...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0893.jpg?t=1271274372

I thought about going with LED rope lights, but along with quality of light issues, it also sounded like there were some dimming concerns with them.

jscifres

04-14-10, 01:54 PM

Congratulations John!
That is a breath-taking theater! I can't wait to see what you and Mario come up with.
I was just in Sac a few weeks ago and reside in Pleasanton, about an hour and a half south of you. If you are ever in my area, please let me know if you would like to stop by to talk about each other's builds. I am very fascinated by the artistry of your theater.
In addition, I would like to hold another Bay Area meet at my home soon before we sell our home, so let me know if you would interested in attending.

Take care.

Thank you! I'm sure Mario will appreciate your compliments, particularly given the quality of your own build. I'd seen you theater during construction and I think your theater is amazing. Your game room is incredible too. I'm happy to visit theaters and when we're done with ours, We'll also be open to the public (sort of! LOL).

jscifres

04-14-10, 02:02 PM

I am very fascinated by the artistry of your theater.

'artistry'

THAT is likely the highest compliment one can give to Mario! :)

I was and still am intrigued by his ability to both design AND build all of this, completely ALONE... (just like an artist would)

SinisterJ

04-14-10, 02:13 PM

Amazing what you are doing with the ceiling is unreal, I cant wait to see what the rest is going to look like!

jscifres

04-14-10, 03:11 PM

Just got a picture of all of the teardrops mounted to the beams...

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0892.jpg?t=1271272182

jscifres

04-14-10, 03:23 PM

Here's the general contractor for the remodel doing his part for the theater while Mario works on the beams. The contractor's been telling me for a few weeks now that he needs to figure out a way to take credit for the theater. ;)

The Contractor's name is John also... I gave him permission to write, in big letters, "John was here" on the concrete slab. :)

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0894-1.jpg?t=1271272755

Coincidentally, this is the carpet that we'll be covering that up with...

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0895.jpg?t=1271273122

kezug

04-14-10, 08:32 PM

Wow....this is amazing. That ceiling is amazing.

Andy0217

04-14-10, 10:53 PM

Goodness me, never seen anything like it...this bloke is a marvel

jscifres

04-15-10, 02:39 AM

Thanks for the kind words.

The ceiling is going to be lit tomorrow morning (minus the blue rope light in the beams - which is still on backorder).

jscifres

04-15-10, 04:39 PM

Just testing the lighting in the room today. This is under full power... The only thing missing is some blue rope light which will be above each beam.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0902.jpg?t=1271363888

jscifres

04-15-10, 04:42 PM

Running about 50% power...

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0908.jpg?t=1271364085

jscifres

04-15-10, 04:44 PM

Running just rope lights.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0913.jpg?t=1271364222

Mr. Goodcat

04-15-10, 05:17 PM

Simply awesome.

autoboy70

04-15-10, 06:29 PM

adammb

04-15-10, 07:00 PM

Jaw Drop
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Wipe drool

MARIOARTS

04-15-10, 08:10 PM

Jaw Drop
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Wipe drool

Thank you Adam, you made my day. :)
Mario

MARIOARTS

04-15-10, 08:56 PM

If I could find anything to critique about Mario's ceiling, it would be that the rope lights don't extend all the way to the pointy ends of the teardrop.

And that it's too bad that you will have to turn the lights off to watch your movie because they look marvelous.

Yes a critique is share with you. But I can't stand the appearance of those little blinky lights on reflective surfaces and the only way to get rid of them when using rope light is to defuse them with transluscent plexiglass and that has to be mounted at least 1 inch from the rope light to achieve the effect. So when you get to the tip of the teardrop we're out of room to make it happen. Oh for the days when LED will be more reliable, available in more product styles, and cost effective.
Mario

adammb

04-15-10, 09:46 PM

In2Photos

04-15-10, 10:04 PM

Yes a critique is share with you. But I can't stand the appearance of those little blinky lights on reflective surfaces and the only way to get rid of them when using rope light is to defuse them with transluscent plexiglass and that has to be mounted at least 1 inch from the rope light to achieve the effect. So when you get to the tip of the teardrop we're out of room to make it happen. Oh for the days when LED will be more reliable, available in more product styles, and cost effective.
Mario

Mario,

There may be another way! I hope I can explain it!

Cut a piece of clear plexi that is the same shape of the tear drop, only slightly smaller (about the same size as the area where the rope light is laid out). Then, in the center of the plexi cut out a circle, a foot or so in diameter. You will need to polish the cut edge so that light will pass through the plexi. Next you use a fine grit sandpaper to rough the outer 2 inches or so of the tear drop shape and the outer edge of the tear drop. The light will pass from the center circle to the edge and it will emit from any area that has been sanded. You may wish to paint any unsanded area black to reduce any possible transmission of light. This works quite well with neon, but other light should work as well.

BTW I love the work!

MARIOARTS

04-15-10, 10:21 PM

Mario,

There may be another way! I hope I can explain it!

Cut a piece of clear plexi that is the same shape of the tear drop, only slightly smaller (about the same size as the area where the rope light is laid out). Then, in the center of the plexi cut out a circle, a foot or so in diameter. You will need to polish the cut edge so that light will pass through the plexi. Next you use a fine grit sandpaper to rough the outer 2 inches or so of the tear drop shape and the outer edge of the tear drop. The light will pass from the center circle to the edge and it will emit from any area that has been sanded. You may wish to paint any unsanded area black to reduce any possible transmission of light. This works quite well with neon, but other light should work as well.

BTW I love the work!

Hi Mike,
Truly appreciate the comment. Unfortunately, the "fiber obtic" technique is wasted on rope light. It simply doesn't give enough lummens to pull the technique off. Your're right though, if it were neon, which I've done alot of, your suggestion would be a very good idea, but, rope light is rope light. Thanks again.
Mario

MARIOARTS

04-15-10, 10:25 PM

Good idea on the plexi. I was trying to figure out how to reduce this effect on my rope lights.

Mario, Whenever you want to come to IN let me know. LOL:D

Well I got to tell ya. If California keeps going in the direction it's going, I just may being in your neighborhood sooner than you think.
So if I am, I'll drop you a line.
Mario:cool:

MARIOARTS

04-15-10, 10:26 PM

BTW Mike,
Thank you for the compliment. I do appreciate that.
Mario:)

theWalkinator

04-15-10, 10:32 PM

Talk about ceilings, I find out few oriental designs are every exquisite:
http://www.0576.com/images/img/20090620025847713.jpg

http://www.tumanduo.com/submitbitch/2008-10-5/1006328393.jpg

http://www.zggdyx.com/admin/eWebEditor_v200_Free/UploadFile/20081031114040628.jpg

http://www.tumanduo.com/submitbitch/2008-8-20/1102461383.jpg

http://www.hx9981.com/sucai/xiaoguotu/photo/xinzhongshi29.jpg

http://img.myhousing.cn/attchment/uploadimg/tplx_kt/955/1216709670.jpg

http://www.tumanduo.com/submitbitch/2008-9-12/11434510428.jpg

http://www.zyxuan.org/pic/200903/27/200932712181410.jpg

http://www.tumanduo.com/submitbitch/2008-10-9/1335392618.jpg

http://img1.soufun.com/album/2009_06/04/1244105088624_000.jpg

http://www.zggdyx.com/admin/eWebEditor_v200_Free/UploadFile/200811220354549.jpg

http://img.eju.cn/img/dr/25/73/92/221556.jpg

MARIOARTS

04-15-10, 10:46 PM

For me.
A real theater is ALL IN THE CEILING.
Make it grand. make it awesome. And that's a theater.
Look at the theaters of the 20's and 30's.
It doesn't have to be an art deco theme, it simply has to be another experiance from the rest of the house.
Then your in THE THEATER.
But that's just my opinion.
Mario

jscifres

04-15-10, 11:24 PM

Great. Mario's going to get sucked into the forum and never come up for air long enough to finish my theater! ;) Is it possible for a non-DIY project to be LOGANED? :p

Just kidding... I'm glad Mario is checking this thread every so often. He can answer design/build questions correctly, whereas I just like to take pretty pictures! :)

jscifres

04-15-10, 11:28 PM

Talk about ceilings, I find out few oriental designs are every exquisite:

A cool ceiling always improves a room.

For the Theater, I was lucky to have a blank slate with which to work (or rather to give to Mario to work). But I know most of the people doing HT builds are pretty much stuck with 8', 9' or 10' ceilings and you really don't want to do anything like this if you only had 8' to work with.

jscifres

04-16-10, 12:11 AM

Can anyone tell me if it's possible (and then how) I could change the title to this thread?

apokalypse

04-16-10, 02:03 AM

jscifres

04-16-10, 02:55 AM

wow! i really love the ceiling now which really make the room look awesome and i never knew that ceiling could make the room look stand out. first thing looking at your HT ceiling comes to my mind is having interactive ceiling like a water of an ocean or pond.

It's cool to hear people's interpretations of the theater so far. There was a reference to a guitar, and something else and now an ocean. I'm certain that the ambiguity of theme is by design, as the design is intended to be abstract (and thus open to individual interpretation, if I'm not mistaken).

hanesian

04-16-10, 07:19 AM

Can anyone tell me if it's possible (and then how) I could change the title to this thread?

I believe after the first few hours the only way to change the title of a thread is to send a request to the moderator asking if he would change it for you.

And thanks again for sharing your build & Mario ... what a breath of fresh air!

kezug

04-16-10, 07:30 AM

Running just rope lights.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0913.jpg?t=1271364222

Wow...wow!

My interpretation....this looks as if I am on a space ship (like on the 5th Element) and we are looking up through this "window" into outer space.

Any plans on adding some subtle fiber optic "stars"? ;)

KNKKNK

04-16-10, 08:23 AM

WOW!! How many hours would you estimate that you have just stood there admiring that ceiling so far John?

Mario, Mario, Mario!!!!....I'd say your talents are amazing, but that would be an understatement. I'm anxious to see how this room comes together. Over the last couple of years I've spent 100's of hours scouring the internet studying theaters trying to glean design ideas for my own build, and I must say that I have only seen one or two others that can begin to rival the the aesthetics and design of the "Lowes Theater", not to mention the creative, and imaginative talent that just "OOOOZES" from your abstract wall art.

Fortunately for both of us I live a couple of thousand miles away or you would inherit a "Work for Free" shop boy;). I have a million questions regarding the materials/techniques you employ, but I will refrain from side tracking Johns build any further.. Again, hats off to you sir.

Brad

jscifres

04-16-10, 12:30 PM

jscifres

04-16-10, 12:33 PM

Mario, Mario, Mario!!!!....I'd say your talents are amazing, but that would be an understatement. I'm anxious to see how this room comes together. Over the last couple of years I've spent 100's of hours scouring the internet studying theaters trying to glean design ideas for my own build, and I must say that I have only seen one or two others that can begin to rival the the aesthetics and design of the "Lowes Theater", not to mention the creative, and imaginative talent that just "OOOOZES" from your abstract wall art.

Brad

Brad,

I don't recall mentioning the Lowes Theater in this thread. How did you figure that out? :)

-John

jscifres

04-16-10, 12:51 PM

Wow...wow!

My interpretation....this looks as if I am on a space ship (like on the 5th Element) and we are looking up through this "window" into outer space.

Any plans on adding some subtle fiber optic "stars"? ;)

I started the entire project having my heart set on having fiber optic stars on a dark night sky. We opted not to go there when Mario showed me the model, which convinced me that we can achieve much of the same effect without the added expense. Seeing it in person, I agree with Mario... mostly.

It's undeniably stunning just as it is, so no one will miss stars.... But, the stars would likely be one more shock and awe factor. Imagine a guest walking in the room and seeing it lit as is, then as the lights go down, the stars kick on and the raised ceiling just completely vanishes... Would be very cool.

But, even without the stars, there are still more fun things to come.

jscifres

04-16-10, 01:31 PM

Since Brad did a little research and found Mario's website and the first significant theater he built, I thought I'd help out the folks who might also be curious about his past work. His website can be found at www.marioarts.com

I told the detailed story about how I came to meet Mario on Page 1 or 2 of the thread and this is the theater which caught my eye. To summarize the story... Although I didn't particularly like the style of the theater, I definitely recognized the craftsmanship... and so I wanted to see what he could do with my ideas.

http://www.marioarts.com/plht.gif

I was shocked to hear that he hand built everything but the glass.

http://www.marioarts.com/plht14.gif

MARIOARTS

04-16-10, 08:33 PM

MARIOARTS

04-17-10, 12:12 PM

jelloslug

04-21-10, 01:43 PM

Wow, just wow. That ceiling is an unbelievable work of art. I cannot wait to see what else is in store.

jscifres

04-21-10, 11:40 PM

Wow, just wow. That ceiling is an unbelievable work of art. I cannot wait to see what else is in store.

Thanks. There's definitely still a lot more to come.

Not much going to happen this week though, as Mario is correcting the way the chandeliers hang.

Explanation: We both disliked how the chandeliers were hanging from the ceiling with the wire. Next week, they will be reinstalled by attaching them to each adjacent beam so that the entire lattice of the ceiling and chandeliers combined will float 18" below the raised ceiling.

mooveejunky

04-24-10, 08:04 PM

He absolutely blew me away when he showed up with that model of the ceiling.

And he continues to impress with things like the little light fixtures which join the teardrop beams (a few pics of those are up). Those were never in the plans... I just said I wanted some lights in that area and he comes up with these...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0693.jpg?t=1270761472

And I just noticed that when I look right up at one of these, the arms go in the direction of the beams...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0776_2.jpg?t=1270771112

Good story for the AVS Forum about how I found him, because he's very new to the HT design business...

His first theater was a featured theater on this site (home page feature) last summer. I read the article, but didn't read that he was local to me and pretty much paid it no mind (I honestly didn't care for the style, but applauded the workmanship and his attention to the room lighting). I was just kind of coming to the conclusion that I might not have the time to tackle the theater design myself and I began to look into several designers (some big names from the forums here and google searching them out...) About a week or two later, I was just browsing a luxury home magazine in my, um, office... and I noticed a small ad placed by an A/V installer in our area which was clearly the same theater that I'd seen featured here. So I called them up and asked them if they did that theater. When they said that it was indeed their work, I paid them a visit. That's where I learned that they teamed up with this interior designer, with him doing the design and the A/V pros looking on, assisting the design and getting the work on the equipment... I checked out his website, called him up and he came over to interview. That day, the most impressive thing that he said was that he designs and builds EVERYTHING himself. That impressed me a lot and the rest is history.

His prior work was doing all the interior design for the offices of a very large home builder in the Sacramento area. He built cabinets, mantles, desks, reception rooms, chandeliers, you name it. The owner of the company grew to trust him with complete creative freedom and just gave him a budget and expected to be wowed. My understanding is that he delivered every time. BUT, the homebuilder went belly up during the housing bust and left my designer scrambling for work.

I'm the VERY lucky one, as timing is everything... I came along as he had just gotten one significant theater under his belt to prove his mettle and I got him for an absolute steal. That said, not once has he tried to nickel and dime me for anything. He promised he'd wow us for the budget and he just keeps adding cool stuff that he feels will make an impact.

I think I mentioned it earlier... I've never met anyone with the same skill set. He has a very creative and artistic vision, and also has a strong sense for engineering (those beams are very well constructed), and who has an absolutely unmatched work ethic (cuz he loves what he does).

DID I READ THIS RIGHT?
This is his SECOND theater? I'm trying to wrap my arms around that. WOW. UNREAL. Not to mention the photos of his first theater don't exactly look like a FIRST TRY. I've looked at what feels like thousands of pics of theaters and I think this guy is going to change the game.
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Lightngsvt

04-24-10, 09:23 PM

Subscribing. Amazing, unreal, beautiful, words fail me in expressing how amazing this theater and its workmanship are!

DavidinCT

04-25-10, 12:52 AM

Jaw Drop
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Wipe drool

Exactly my thoughts....OMG...Mind blowing and just WOW I am almost at a loss on words. I am totaly blown away.

Unreal work. If this is that guy's 2nd theater, is there pictures of his first anywhere ?

Def Subbed...I have to see how this one turns out...just WOW...

MARIOARTS

04-25-10, 12:34 PM

Exactly my thoughts....OMG...Mind blowing and just WOW I am almost at a loss on words. I am totaly blown away.

Unreal work. If this is that guy's 2nd theater, is there pictures of his first anywhere ?

Def Subbed...I have to see how this one turns out...just WOW...

Thanks for all the great comments. Home theater design was a very natural transition from what I have been doing for the past 30 years which was sales office design for residential home builders. I was given a logo, a buyer profile and usually a three car garage at each sub division. I would design the room which included window, wall, and door locations, the displays, wall coverings, furniture, signage, and any architectural special effects. I would then act as general contractor on the build out, build everything I designed and install it. In the last 30 years I've done well over 200 projects.

I guess the best thing that came out of this was working for builders who always wanted to out do their competition so I was constantly challenged to find new materials and ways to fabricate new effects on a budget.

There are photos of my first theater which was an art deco design earlier on this thread.

So thanks again for your appreciation of my work. John's theater is about 1/3 finished. I hope you stick around to let me know what you think of the rest of it.

Mario

MARIOARTS

04-25-10, 06:47 PM

jscifres

04-26-10, 05:35 PM

I should add this to my last comment.
In 2006 I learned that my largest (90%) client was about to go bankrupt. So in the adventure to reinvent myself, seeing that the real estate market was about to implode, my wife suggested that I do home theaters. I had done some very small embellishments to a few and felt like it was a good fit. So when my client closed the doors, I was umemployed. I spent around 8 months, full time, surfing the internet, reading, talking to local AV guys learning as much as I could about the "art" of home theaters. Self taught trade school. I found a local AV brainiac, followed him around and tortured him with the "well what about that" kind of questions until I thought he was going to implode.

But this is John's thread and that's all I have to say about that.
Mario

What's so cool about Mario is that he is an artist/craftsman first. I knew a little about his background before hiring him, but it was really his passion and work ethic (which was clearly evident from the start) that convinced me to turn over the reigns to him. So far, I'm thinking I made a wise decision.

Although this is really only his second major theater project, he has obviously developed a skill set which I think translates very well into this market.

Here's the bad news... This market isn't hopping either! :(

jscifres

04-26-10, 05:45 PM

I was stuck having the entrance to the theater open into the room at the front of the theater... So Mario is designing a door with an acoustic panel mounted to it so that when the door is closed, the door itself is hidden from view. The acoustic panels in the room will have three lighting options.

The tricky part is really getting power to that panel, but Mario and the electrician found this...

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0924.jpg?t=1272318381

Here it is connected...

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/springhinge.jpg?t=1272318213

jscifres

04-26-10, 05:51 PM

These are the ribs covering the face of the front and back soffits

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_1111.jpg?t=1272318480

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_1109.jpg?t=1272318696

mooveejunky

04-26-10, 08:23 PM

jscifres

04-27-10, 12:40 AM

So the square thing with the ball on it in the pic matches the light fixture with the ball on it. What is the square thing? It obviously came from the same store. A light fixture is a light fixture, but what is the square thing? And where did that half of a tube come from? Did you buy it in that color? I'm lost.:mad:

Sorry for posting a confusing set of pictures.

Actually, the square thing with a ball on it is nothing more than an embellishment to cap the four corners of the raised ceiling/teardrop beams. They came from the same place, but not a store... no, they match the light fixtures with the balls because Mario makes everything himself.

99% of everything you will see in the room is hand made in Mario's workshop before it is brought to the house for installation.

I've been mostly posting pictures without explaining how to build this stuff because I couldn't do an explanation justice. Maybe Mario can chime in and explain what material and process he used to build the ribs and the fixtures.

MARIOARTS

04-27-10, 09:47 PM

So the square thing with the ball on it in the pic matches the light fixture with the ball on it. What is the square thing? It obviously came from the same store. A light fixture is a light fixture, but what is the square thing? And where did that half of a tube come from? Did you buy it in that color? I'm lost.:mad:

Well as John said, I made the things you're asking about. The white glass "lense" in the light fixtures came from Lowe's hardware. I made the fixture around the lense from MDF (medium density fiberboard) and maple hardwood. If I could figure out how to upload a pic of what the square is I would but I haven't figured that out yet. The tube is 3 inch ABS pipe cut in half, primed with oil base primer, sprayed with a metalic copper oil base paint, fauxed in a slighty darker mix of the metalic copper, and finally sprayed with satin finish polyurethane.

mooveejunky

04-28-10, 10:02 PM

I was stuck having the entrance to the theater open into the room at the front of the theater... So Mario is designing a door with a panel mounted to it so that when the door is closed, the door itself is hidden from view.

The tricky part is really getting power to that panel, but Mario and the electrician found this...

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0924.jpg?t=1272318381

Here it is connected...

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/springhinge.jpg?t=1272318213

Maybe it's obvious to most on this site but I'm new at this and I can't imagine why you would need power to a door. What are you doing to the door that needs electricity? Is there something special to home theater doors?

jscifres

04-29-10, 02:46 AM

Maybe it's obvious to most on this site but I'm new at this and I can't imagine why you would need power to a door. What are you doing to the door that needs electricity? Is there something special to home theater doors?

Sorry, I'm still learning how to post on here and what level of detail to put on each new post. I guess I'm sometimes just so excited to get a new picture that I just don't bother telling anyone what it is for.

The power in the door is not normal, from what I've seen. The Electrician had to dig deep to find something that would stand up to long term use and abuse.

The power is there because we're mounting an acoustic panel (with a lighting element) onto the door. Because the door is in the front left of the theater, we wanted to hide it. None of the acoustic panels are assembled yet, so that might explain a good part of the confusion.

jscifres

05-01-10, 12:36 AM

Today, we got power on to all the switches and Mario painted the walls black. I think that the black walls are messing with my camera, because I can't seem to get a focused picture. Anyway, here's a couple new pictures.

Screen wall
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_1130.jpg?t=1272688609

Looking up... We're still missing about 120' of blue rope light which is intended to go on top of the beams, but I'm actually starting to like the blue levels up there with just the perimeter rope light...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_1150.jpg?t=1272724867

DavidinCT

05-01-10, 05:22 AM

Can't wait to see the final product. Maybe I'll win powerball and have Mario do a theater for me !!!

adammb

05-01-10, 08:41 AM

I'm not sure what kind of camera you are using but once you start reducing the light you need a good camera to get a nice picture. I usually will take my pics with iso at 1000 and my aperture set at 3.5. I still wont get the shutter speed I like as some times it takes too long and makes a blurry picture. If I increase my iso to where it really needs you get the grainy look you have in your picture. I'm shooting with a Canon 7d which has good high iso performance. If your using a point and shoot you will most likely have this trouble unless you get more lighting in there or it has settings you havent played with yet but most point and shoots dont offer good settings to correct this.

I see now what you where saying with the dowel rods. I may end up trying that but maybe with more of a contrasting color.

jscifres

05-01-10, 10:39 AM

I'm not sure what kind of camera you are using but once you start reducing the light you need a good camera to get a nice picture. I usually will take my pics with iso at 1000 and my aperture set at 3.5. I still wont get the shutter speed I like as some times it takes too long and makes a blurry picture. If I increase my iso to where it really needs you get the grainy look you have in your picture. I'm shooting with a Canon 7d which has good high iso performance. If your using a point and shoot you will most likely have this trouble unless you get more lighting in there or it has settings you havent played with yet but most point and shoots dont offer good settings to correct this.

I've got a brand new canon S90, which is essentially a compact digital SLR. It actually takes great pics so far on auto settings and has options which allow me full control over aperture and shutter speed. Unfortunately, I don't remember much about how to use all that...

I'm also running into issues finding a good angle to take a picture. My room is a little short vs. its width at 19.5'(L)x16'(W). How do people recommend getting full room shots?

jscifres

05-01-10, 10:59 AM

Earlier in the thread, I showed pictures of Mario hanging the chandeliers with a wire setup, which neither of us liked (at all!).

Mario went back to the shop and came up with this solution... connecting the chandeliers to the beams.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_1166.jpg?t=1272725679

Now, the chandeliers are connected to the teardrop beams and the entire beam structure w/chandeliers is truly suspended from the soffits.

adammb

05-01-10, 12:31 PM

On the camera if you put it in aperture priority mode which is probably labeled AT on your camera. Then have your camera view as wide as possible and reduce the aperture as low as possible. a 2.8 is better than a 3.5 for low lighting. Then increase your ISO setting as high as your camera will allow. Like I said I went to 1000 but I probably could shoot at 2000 or more. As long as you get clear pics it is best to keep your ISO as low as possible to reduce picture noise.

As far as getting all your room in one shot I think that is out of the question for your camera unless you can change lenses on it. I use a very wide lens on my camera. To compensate you can get a computer program that stitches multiple shots together into one. So you could take 5 photos and make them one. For this you need to make sure all your shots have the same focal depth, aperture, and ISO setting so they blend well together. I have both photoshop and lightroom which will do this for me but there are other programs out there that cost alot less.

Good luck:D

MARIOARTS

05-02-10, 11:43 AM

Can't wait to see the final product. Maybe I'll win powerball and have Mario do a theater for me !!!

Anytime you're ready Dave.:)
I hear CT is beautiful.

MARIOARTS

05-02-10, 12:33 PM

174543

I had to lay on the floor for this shot. It's slightly out of focus but if I had used a tripod I would have lost the outside lights.

So just for the record, John did not take this picture.

jscifres

05-02-10, 01:14 PM

174543

I had to lay on the floor for this shot. It's slightly out of focus but if I had used a tripod I would have lost the outside lights.

So just for the record, John did not take this picture.

Good picture, Mario!

jscifres

05-02-10, 01:16 PM

jscifres

05-03-10, 07:58 PM

Sorry for all the similar pictures in this posting, but I just couldn't help myself.

Right out of the box, on auto settings my new digital SLR camera took the best pictures I have to date. It has an 18mm lens, so I'm able to get a little more of the room in each shot.

Looking up from front of riser...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/beautifulceiling2.jpg?t=1272930840

A straighter view...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/beautifulceiling3.jpg?t=1272931190

A flatter view from standing at the riser area and holding camera up.
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/beautifulceiling6.jpg?t=1272931256

Screen wall shot.
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/beautifulscreenwall1.jpg?t=1272931380

jscifres

05-03-10, 08:06 PM

Here's a shot of the brackets Mario built to attach the chandeliers to the beams. The result is SOOOO much nicer than hanging them from the ceiling.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/beautifulchandeliers1.jpg?t=1272931459

Here's a shot of the ribbing which finishes the front and rear soffits

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0022.jpg?t=1272931731

Lightngsvt

05-03-10, 10:34 PM

Absolutely stunning workmanship! Put me on the "when I win the Powerball" list too!

MARIOARTS

05-03-10, 11:04 PM

OK, So when I designed the ceiling I wanted to make a visual illusion that would be there to discover. How many COMPLETE ovals do you see in the ceiling? Granted this effect will only be appreciated with all lighting effects on, but that was the goal. Before the movie starts, I would hope that what I have created would take a visitor from the real world through a passage way to the "movie" experience by virtue of looking at something they don't see everyday. Science and math. Now that the room has your attention, dim the lights and the room will fade away but your thoughts are hopefully no longer about the days worries..............start the movie.

I know.................................. a little esoteric but what do you expect from an old hippy artist.:cool:

autoboy70

05-04-10, 01:05 PM

What a difference in quality of photos. My wife's been bugging me for an SLR. It might be time to get one. That's the first time we've been able to see both walls at the same time, so you really get a better sense of how the ceiling looks as a whole.

mooveejunky

05-05-10, 09:07 PM

Great new shots. Well done.

So what's next?

heffneil

05-05-10, 09:45 PM

Hey this is an amazing build and an awesome ceiling. I just found this thread for the first time. I am about 90% complete my theater and I just noticed you are using the same carpet I used! Awfully coincidental but it is a perfect carpet for a theater! My wife loves the feel on her feet and I have to say it is very nice. Just make sure you have good installers. The carpet will only stretch in one direction since it is wool and the seams can be a little hairy. They had to redo my seams two times now to make it right. In the end it really paid off and it works really well.

I love your woodwork. I am working on building a box to hide my 4 pop up tv's under my projection screen and I am NOT good at it. I got one quote and it was in excess of $10,000! :eek:

So I am back to the drawing board and working on doing it myself again!

Keep up the good work!

Neil

mooveejunky

05-05-10, 11:33 PM

jscifres

05-06-10, 12:32 AM

Hey this is an amazing build and an awesome ceiling. I just found this thread for the first time. I am about 90% complete my theater and I just noticed you are using the same carpet I used! Awfully coincidental but it is a perfect carpet for a theater! My wife loves the feel on her feet and I have to say it is very nice. Just make sure you have good installers. The carpet will only stretch in one direction since it is wool and the seams can be a little hairy. They had to redo my seams two times now to make it right. In the end it really paid off and it works really well.

Neil

Hi Neil. Thanks for introducing yourself and for the information. I'm not certain that the carpet I selected is actually wool. Maybe mine is a knock off of yours? I'll have to call the carpet store and check the specs again just to be sure. Do you have any pictures of your theater with the carpet installed?

jscifres

05-06-10, 12:35 AM

Great new shots. Well done.

So what's next?

I believe the next steps are to faux the walls, install the riser, stage and baseboard... That will have some interesting photos because I'm planning to have an air return, plugs and other stuff on the face of the riser. Also, the baseboard is lighted.

MARIOARTS

05-06-10, 04:06 PM

I believe the next steps are to faux the walls, install the riser, stage and baseboard... That will have some interesting photos because I'm planning to have an air return, plugs and other stuff on the face of the riser. Also, the baseboard is lighted.

Today I'm presenting faux patterns for the wall color to John and Kristen for approval.

MARIOARTS

05-06-10, 04:13 PM

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/beautifulceiling1.jpg?t=1273176752

This is a test. John's teaching me how to upload images...

indygreg

05-06-10, 08:30 PM

MARIOARTS

05-06-10, 10:27 PM

I believe the next steps are to faux the walls, install the riser, stage and baseboard... That will have some interesting photos because I'm planning to have an air return, plugs and other stuff on the face of the riser. Also, the baseboard is lighted.

So I'll be adding 350 feet of blue rope light in the next few days. Can't wait. That should REALLY make the ceiling vibrate. After the walls are fauxed, the baseboard parts will be mounted and then the rizer construction will begin, as well as, the front stage. It's all "window dressing" at that point. Can't wait to see the wall panels with three lighting effects each add to the ambiance, not to mention the six side wall, back lit, wall sculptures. Man I love lighting and a home theater is the BEST place for it ! ! ! !

jscifres

05-06-10, 10:34 PM

hey john. spectacular detail work here! as an amateur woodworker i really appreciate the unique work here. most really good craftsmen in homebuilding have trouble thinking outside the box but this is all very creative as well as being beautiful execution.

i am particularly interested though in the layout of the house. this appears to be a main floor theater. you don't see a lot of those and especially in california where real estate is a premium. i am curious, is the house a ranch? the theater appears to be in the back of the house. would you be willing to share a layout of the rest of that floor? i live where land is cheap and i would like to someday build one more house that is all on one floor on a big lot in the country.

btw, i have the axioms for surrounds in Big Red and i really like them. i used 4 QS8's for the sides and 2 M22's for the rear. i am very pleased with them.

greg

Hi Greg,

Thanks for introducing yourself. Interestingly, I just read your build thread yesterday (regarding the floor mounted subs) and can see that you're pretty handy!

Mario deserves all the credit for the unique design and execution. I'm consistently amazed by his creativity and workmanship. Knowing that I'm getting him for such a deal is a small part of the reason why I'm doing my best to document this build. I think he can be a unique fixture in the business for years to come and I'd love to say that I played a small part in that rise.

The house is a ranch, which is a little rare, but we live on 1.5 flat acres and had plenty of room to expand. Unfortunately, I wasn't the original owner and I don't have the original plans. I only have plans for the addition and some of the original house. I posted plans of the theater and surrounding areas on the original post for this thread.

You are correct that the theater is on the main floor level and very far away from the rest of the primary living spaces. The adjacent rooms to the theater are the game room (for pool table, game table and small wet bar), a new garage (#2 for my toys - aptly named 'Dad's room' on the intercom system), a mud room connecting the garage to the the house and an exterior pool bath. The next closest rooms are a laundry room and family room, then next to that is the kitchen, then finally we get to some bedrooms. I don't expect anything to travel to the kid's rooms, maybe even without any sound proofing (but we did do GG and staggered studs). Course, the opposite problem necessitated that I add an intercom unit inside my theater so I can monitor the kid's rooms while watching a movie!

Here's a picture of the original house (minus the stucco) at the point of the remodel.
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Construction%20Images/IMG_0027.jpg?t=1273199048

Here's a shot of my wife 'sitting' where the theater seats would be...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/IMG_0038.jpg?t=1273199631

Here's a picture from roughly the same angle of the addition now...
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Construction%20Images/IMG_0708.jpg?t=1273199538

indygreg

05-07-10, 08:30 AM

jscifres

05-07-10, 10:25 AM

wow that addition looks great john. it has all the fun stuff - extra garage, game room, theater, fire pit, pool... i'll bet your family can't wait to get that done. you know i work for HP and all my friends in cupertino tell me that in california your house is not your castle like it is in the midwest because there is so much to do in california, etc. i think i will show them this thread. a couple years ago we added almost the same set of goodies to our house and now i think my favorite vacations are the ones where i don't have to go anywhere.

i look forward to watching your build progress!

greg

Well, I did go to Illinois and Purdue for school and grew up driving tractors on my Grandparent's farms. So I can appreciate Midwestern lifestyles.

indygreg

05-07-10, 12:18 PM

PURDUE!!!! yikes. did you catch the name of my build :)

greg

jscifres

05-07-10, 01:01 PM

PURDUE!!!! yikes. did you catch the name of my build :)

greg

Yeah, actually Purdue was for grad school so I'm not too caught up in the whole in state rivalry thing. BUT, I do despise Indiana BB for the whole Gordon/Sampson thing.

Now, I'm a big ten fan for everything EXCEPT Indiana BB.

autoboy70

05-07-10, 01:51 PM

Your addition makes me want to start digging under my house Great Escape sytle. Every night I'll dig up a few pockets of dirt and eventually I'll have my theater too!

autoboy70

05-07-10, 02:00 PM

wow that addition looks great john. it has all the fun stuff - extra garage, game room, theater, fire pit, pool... i'll bet your family can't wait to get that done. you know i work for HP and all my friends in cupertino tell me that in california your house is not your castle like it is in the midwest because there is so much to do in california, etc. i think i will show them this thread. a couple years ago we added almost the same set of goodies to our house and now i think my favorite vacations are the ones where i don't have to go anywhere.

i look forward to watching your build progress!

greg

Not all of California has issues with space. Sacramento has room to expand and is growing fast. I live next door to Cupertino, and your house can still be your castle, you just have to be efficient because over 2000 square feet gets pretty expensive. And hardly any houses have basements for expansion. It's expensive to dump the dirt and there isn't a need for underground shelter. Here in the Bay Area, your game room, theater, and family room are all one room.

jscifres

05-07-10, 07:56 PM

I'm getting a loaner projector in the next few days (crossing my fingers) and am going to project a pic on the screen wall soon.

This is getting me to think more about the screen size and aspect ratio...

I originally thought a 16:9 screen would be just fine because I didn't want to spring for the masking and the lenses for a 2.35 screen. But now, I'm thinking Mario's work would be ruined slightly by the 16:9 screen. So, I guess I'm about to embark on some forum research about format and screen sizes. If I have any questions, I'll post them here.

Thanks!

indygreg

05-09-10, 01:06 AM

jscifres

05-09-10, 02:11 AM

that samson thing made us sick too. the new coach crean is a real class act. did a basketball camp that my 10 year old attended and i walked away really impressed with what a quality guy he was.

whatever screen size you are thinking, go bigger. they seem huge at first then you get used to them and want more. for a room like yours i would certainly consider a CIH 2.40 setup. we are thrilled with ours.

greg

Thanks. I do seem to be getting that vibe about the bigger is better thing. I've seen several screen sizes at local showrooms and thought I knew what I wanted. At least that's a good starting point for us to tape out the test in this room. Anyway, we were delayed. So no projecting till Monday at the earliest...

mooveejunky

05-11-10, 09:32 PM

Bigger could be better.

ripcord87

05-12-10, 09:20 AM

Wow...Incredible. Thanks so much for sharing this incredible project! John and Mario, that ceiling is pure art and I actually love the thought of helping people forget about the day before the lights go down to start the movie. Just AWESOME.

Thanks!

MARIOARTS

05-12-10, 10:02 PM

Thank you Ryan,
It's truly been a pleasure working for John and Kristen. I added more rope light to the ceiling today and took this shot just for giggles. Hopefully I know how to add photos. We'll see. So now there's just under 500 feet of the blue stuff up there. I'm going to post a before and after the added rope light here shortly.

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/aseaofropelight-small.jpg

MARIOARTS

05-12-10, 11:06 PM

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/RopeLight.jpg

So the theater entry door was re-installed today with all the plugs to accomodate four lighting effects, three to be apart of an acoustical panel and the lower one for the down lit baseboard. The goal is to hide (as much as possible) the entry door. Just something to add to the movie experience.
Now it's faux painting time. Two rag passes and a brushed circle effect.

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/door1.jpg
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/door2.jpg

jscifres

05-12-10, 11:55 PM

So the theater entry door was re-installed today with all the plugs to accomodate four lighting effects, three to be apart of an acoustical panel and the lower one for the down lit baseboard. The goal is to hide (as much as possible) the entry door. Just something to add to the movie experience.
Now it's faux painting time. Two rag passes and a brushed circle effect.

Nice job on the pics, Mario.

mooveejunky

05-13-10, 08:26 PM

jscifres

05-21-10, 02:10 PM

Lots has happened over the past couple weeks.

I selected a screen size (2.4 AR - 120" viewable width)

The walls were faux painted

Baseboard is coming in

The riser is getting built as we speak.

I'll post some new pics shortly. (They'll be more meat and potatoes type pics though, as it will show the riser bones and other boring stuff)

edit: I'm also building a htpc system using sageTV

In2Photos

05-21-10, 03:19 PM

I'll post some new pics shortly. (They'll be more meat and potatoes type pics though, as it will show the riser bones and other boring stuff)
Boy you have a lot to learn! :rolleyes: That is the stuff we live for. This is the DIY forum on AVS. We like tools, raw materials, and all the pics that go along with it! Some of us even document our shed builds. ;)

jscifres

05-21-10, 03:41 PM

MARIOARTS

05-21-10, 11:27 PM

Boy you have a lot to learn! :rolleyes: That is the stuff we live for. This is the DIY forum on AVS. We like tools, raw materials, and all the pics that go along with it! Some of us even document our shed builds. ;)

OK, well here's a little nuts and bolts of it.
Because the baseboard was not a conventional style, sections had to be installed before the riser. So this is what took place.........................
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/baseboard1-2.jpg
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/baseboardstripprep.jpg
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/stripsinapile.jpg
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/finalbaseboard.jpg\

So there you have it. If anyone is thinking about trying this it takes about 100 hours (give or take) to pull it off but the effect is worth every second of lighting effects magic.

Moggie

05-21-10, 11:42 PM

MARIOARTS

05-22-10, 12:00 AM

Mario, you are creating some UNREAL effects and I for one admire the effort you put in as well and the (obviously) master artistic creations. You are giving me so many ideas, too many actually.

Thanks for posting.

Moggie,
Thank you VERY much for your compliments. Never EVER comprimise your vision. It is the vehicle that allows us to grow. I love pushing it to the next level. What else is there?
Thank you again, it's energizing.
Mario:cool:

hanesian

05-22-10, 08:22 AM

Amen, Mario! My problem is that I sometimes confuse my hallucinations for an actual vision. :o

Keep the good stuff coming - it's amazing!

indygreg

05-22-10, 08:56 AM

jscifres

05-22-10, 11:33 AM

The walls are taped where the acoustic panels will be hung, so the exposed wall is to be faux painted. Here, Mario is showing me two faux samples. We all went with the circles.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0059.jpg?t=1274542026

Pleasantly enough, the first two passes in the faux process yielded a very nice, 'leathery' appearance that we all liked better than the circle overload and so Mario just stopped there. You can see the final faux pattern on this shot where Mario has installed some baseboard and is beginning work on the 16" tall riser.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0060.jpg?t=1274542541

Other half of the riser is a little trickier, given that we're putting an HVAC air return on the face of the riser to help with air circulation in the room. We shouldn't have any trouble with whooshing air sound, given that the HVAC guy oversized the entire air handling system so that air is supposed to just kind of spill into the room... but of course, the jury is still out on that until we get this connected.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0066.jpg?t=1274543957

In2Photos

05-22-10, 01:45 PM

WOW those baseboards look awesome! So does the paint!

misugrad

05-22-10, 08:44 PM

:eek:WOW! I'm going to send you my jaw replacement surgery bill because you guys are creating something special:D....and like Moogie, you are getting ideas going in my head!

MARIOARTS

05-22-10, 09:34 PM

Amen, Mario! My problem is that I sometimes confuse my hallucinations for an actual vision. :o

Keep the good stuff coming - it's amazing!

Dear Hanesian,
Boy I know exactly what you're talking about. The line between hallucination and vision has blurred over all the years. Forturnately, it's all good.:cool:
Mario

MARIOARTS

05-22-10, 09:39 PM

hey mario. i LOVE the textures you create with all these shapes. i am curious why you don't leverage premade moldings more. any mill could spit out bullnose and save you hours of cutting and routering. i know some of us diy guys like to make everything but i have seen commercial folks tend to leverage the mill for subcomponents to save time and labor. perhaps you are kind of inventing as you go so you don't want to deal with the lead time from a mill?

awesome work!

greg

Very good point Greg,
The reason being is that I came up with the baseboard design AFTER contract so I didn't have the luxury of out sourcing. At a price of approx. 2.50 a foot that would have been $2000.00 out of pocket. No can do. Problem was that once I got the idea, there was no way I was not going to do it.
Mario

indygreg

05-22-10, 09:58 PM

MARIOARTS

05-22-10, 10:44 PM

Greg,
You just paid me the highest compliment and I thank you.
Mario

MARIOARTS

05-22-10, 10:46 PM

And I might also say that if this economy doesn't pick up I might be calling marc andreessen for a interview ! ! ! ! ! !

Moggie

05-22-10, 11:18 PM

that says a lot about you as a contractor Mario. doing your best is your top priority.

+1. I might even consider changing my signature ;)

Lightngsvt

05-23-10, 10:13 AM

Amazing doesnt begin to describe this theater and the quality of your work Mario!

jscifres

05-23-10, 03:34 PM

that says a lot about you as a contractor Mario. doing your best is your top priority. marc andreessen is on our board of directors and spoke at a technical summit i was at a few weeks ago and someone asked him how you hire really good people. he said he was never a fan of the microsoft style iq tests as a metric because his top criteria was passion. he said he wanted to hire people that would be willing to go against him and break the rules to do what they thought was right. his logic was that you don't have to motivate people with that kind of passion and your organization would be successful. i think he would hire you in a heartbeat! :)

great work.

greg

Good to know that I have something in common with Marc other than calling the U of I my alma matter.

I think I said it before in this thread, but I'll repeat it again... Mario was hired for this project based on his clear and obvious passion. Aside from my keeping a close eye on some nuts and bolts, I turned over the room to him to treat as his canvas and the artist in him took over from there.

There's been many a time where I've felt bad about the extra time or material he invests in the project without so much as a peep from him seeking extra compensation (which I've offered a couple times).

To name a few post contract additions or alterations to date:

1. Baseboard - lighted, ribbed, wavy. vs. plain baseboard.
2. Chandelier mounting to the beams vs. at the ceiling.
3. Homemade lanterns on the teardrops vs. simple recessed cans.
4. Coving and smoothing the ceiling after the general contractor left corners and an imperfect smooth surface on the ceiling.
5. Ribbing on the front and back soffit.

And several others that are too hard to explain... Talk about a rare trait for a contractor!

I do hope he finds a way to stay in this business for a long time.

MARIOARTS

05-23-10, 09:27 PM

Thank you to everyone for your compliments.
I love what I do.
John and I were having a conversation awhile back about passion for your work and I think he put it best...........................
"People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care"..
Trust becomes freedom and freedom is everything to me.
I strive to do what I would want someone working for me to do and the result is that I sleep very soundly at night.
Thanks again.
Mario:)

jelloslug

05-23-10, 09:39 PM

I don't even know what to type.......

This just keeps getting better and better.

autoboy70

05-24-10, 06:34 PM

Hey guys, we could use some feedback on the audio side.

A little backstory. I'm John's brother and am the audio video guy in the family. I got John involved with this forum and showed him what you can do with a theater by showing him some great theaters here. I thought it was going to be a simple bang for you buck theater and so did John until he found Mario who's taken it to a whole new level I didn't even know existed.

Anyways, you all know about Mario, but we need a bit of help figuring out the screenwall. Early on we decided on Axiom Audio speakers because it's what I run at my house, they are great sounding speakers, aren't expensive, come in custom finishes, and most of all have the excellent QS8 surrounds that work well with seating on the back wall.

The problem is that they aren't stunningly beautiful. They look pretty good and their real wood finish is top notch, but in my opinion their shape just doesn't really fit the curves of the room. John has said he was planning on doing a simple screen wall and leaving the speakers sitting out on display. That's great when you've got something like the beautiful but expensive B&W 800 series, but I'm not sure leaving the Axioms out is a great fit for this room. I'm thinking it would be better to hide them in fabric covered posts along the front wall.

We were planning on using the Axiom M60 towers, VP180 center channel (new full range center channel not yet available) and QS8s and I'm looking for advice on how to arrange them on the front wall. Sitting out, encased in fabric towers, or what? I'm also concerned that these are rear ported speakers and could get boomy if we don't pull them off the wall slighly. How do we prevent the bass from reinforcing off the wall? Should we go with sealed speakers? Are there other speakers we should be looking at?

The sub will also have to fit up there and we're thinking one of SVS, Axiom, or HSU's big boys. It will probably depend on fit rather than sound, since they are all powerful good sounding subs. I want to make sure the sound in this room won't disappoint, without spending big bucks on equipment. Thoughts?

In2Photos

05-24-10, 09:16 PM

In my opinion the theater is too beautiful to let just any ordinary speaker sit out in the open. If you aren't planning a specific model to match the appearance of the room its time to hide them and let the room speak for itself (which will be no problem!). Hide those speakers behind the screen up front. Use an AT screen.

autoboy70

05-24-10, 09:33 PM

I haven't done much research on AT screens. Are there significant downsides? Brightness of the projector, coloring of the speakers, or some other factors?

Also, putting the speakers behind the screen would put them right up against the wall, and these speakers are pretty deep which would take up space in the front of the room making the screen closer to the seating positions.

But, if he did go with an AT screen, he could also use an inwall speaker like their in wall M22 bookshelf for all three front channels. Then he'll have a perfectly matched front row of speakers.

But, he still needs to find a place for the sub. And I'm not a fan of small subs. A built in shelf below the screen could accommodate the sub.

Audixium

05-24-10, 10:04 PM

I think what Mike was saying is that it's time to re-evaluate your choice of speakers. While many folks love the Axiom line, you should be open minded. There are speakers that aren't rear ported that can be mounted in a baffle type front wall without losing too much depth, and behind an AT screen.

Such an awe inspiring interior design should also exceed expectations on the audio front (oh yeah, and the visual front too). ;)

Lightngsvt

05-24-10, 10:32 PM

What about something like the new Klipsch Paladium P-37F floor standers and P-27C center? They are an amazing looking speaker and sound great too. Although not sure if they might be a bit on the modern side for the overall design of the room? Or the Monitor Audio Platinum 200 with the PL150 center? They are a bit more "classically" styled and are a gorgeous piece of furniture that is also an amazing high end speaker.

Roger Dressler

05-24-10, 10:48 PM

What about something like the new Klipsch Paladium P-37F floor standers and P-27C center? They are an amazing looking speaker and sound great too. Good call! I agree they have the right look.

And hey, if he plays his cards right, offering Klipsch the opportunity to photograph them for an ad, they'd probably cut him a great deal. Should contact their marketing folks. It's not everyday they can feature products in a real showplace like that!

jscifres

05-24-10, 11:34 PM

Good call! I agree they have the right look.

And hey, if he plays his cards right, offering Klipsch the opportunity to photograph them for an ad, they'd probably cut him a great deal. Should contact their marketing folks. It's not everyday they can feature products in a real showplace like that!

Good idea! :)

Yeah, the speakers have to sit in front of the screen wall, so now it seems there's a strong incentive to have beautiful speakers.

Thanks for the suggestions on nice looking speakers that might match the style of the room. There are so many manufacturers that it's just hard to find something when you don't even know what all's available.

For the record, Mario does also team up with a local A/V pro, who can also make suggestions... To be fair, I haven't really given him the opportunity to do so yet. He still thinks I'm sold on the axioms...

Elill

05-24-10, 11:48 PM

Focal Electra "1028 Be" or "1038 Be" could be another nice choice - in terms of style (no idea what they sound like, but they look cool....nor do I know of their cost)

jscifres

05-25-10, 11:00 AM

If I want to push these speakers back against the screen wall as far as I can, don't I need to get front porting speakers?

jscifres

05-25-10, 11:27 AM

My wife made me get love seats for the front row (Not ideal, but it was a condition for the WAF), and I wanted to seat 4 across... So I bought this reclining (with pop up head rests - cool cuz I'm 6'7" and she's only 5'6") seating configuration, a Stressless piece by Ekornes.

Anyway, we had to move it into the HT in order to get a good feel for how the step up to the riser should be designed.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0070.jpg?t=1274800605

The seats are slightly angled from the center, which really helps the viewing angle for all seats. It also means I can get a longer riser at the sides of the room. The shortest part of the riser is in the middle at 6', and the sides are now about 6'8".

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0082.jpg?t=1274800912

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0077.jpg?t=1274800984

The red chalk line on the floor is the outline of the front row seats, which at the widest point, are only 26" from the wall. Luckily, the seatbacks are about 36" from the wall and the way we have this designed, it does not feel cramped at all, either visually or functionally.

http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/jinrsvl/Silverwood%20Theater/IMG_0078.jpg?t=1274801008

adammb

05-25-10, 11:37 AM

How deep is that riser? Are you using recliners and how far away from the back wall will your seats be?

jscifres

05-25-10, 12:03 PM

How deep is that riser? Are you using recliners and how far away from the back wall will your seats be?

The riser is 6' deep in the center and 6' 8" on the sides, so for all practical purposes, it is 6' deep with 8" extra walking room on the two sides (where it's needed).

Because I'm using a wall to wall couch in the back row, we'll be pulling it off the wall about 6" or so and still have plenty of walking and leg room. The front row, reclined, does not encroach on the riser (a nice benefit to the angled seats up front). Overall, I think we're making the best of a length challenged room.

Audixium

05-25-10, 02:32 PM

Would you mind sharing more info regarding the love seats? (make, model, etc)

I might end up having to go that route and really like you choice of color/style.

KeithYates

05-25-10, 02:57 PM

If I want to push these speakers back against the screen wall as far as I can, don't I need to get front porting speakers?

Just saw this thread, wow, what a fun ceiling design. The arcs and swoops move the eye around very nicely, and the craftsmanship looks exquisite throughout. And in my own backyard! I had no idea this type of talent was so close. Bravo, Mario!

I haven't read the entire thread from the beginning, so I apologize if this is just a rehash of stuff that's already been talked to death, but the usual, textbook-right method of siting speakers in dedicated, performance-based theaters is: 1.) Recess/flush "in-cabinet" types into niches in a baffle/"soffit wall" behind the screen. Make each niche about 1" wider and 1.5" higher than the speaker itself, and locate these niches so that, once installed, the LCRs' acoustic centers (typically about midway between the center of the tweeter and the center of the midrange) land one-half to two-thirds up the height of the image area; 2.) Set the speakers on ~0.75-1.0" high viscoelastic pads to decouple cabinet vibrations from the soffit wall and the rest of the room structure (we don't want to turn Mario's beautiful work into something that sounds like a mariachi band when you fire up the system!); 3.) Shim under the 2 rear pads so that the speaker's acoustic center is tilted down, towards the head position at the money seat; 4.) Gasket air-tight the 0.5-1" gap around the speaker cabinets; 5.) Compliantly restrain the speaker from toppling out of its niche (Mario could make a little MDF tab that hangs down from the soffit immediately above the speaker; create a non-vibrating bumper by putting a .25" thick piece of felt btwn the MDF tab and the top edge of the spkr cabinet); 6.) Equalize the resulting bass lift -- quick & painless; 7.) Place multiple subs in the right places (a separate topic, of course); and 8.) Acoustically treat the screen wall (4-6 inches thick will do the job in most circumstances) and hide bass absorbers where the modal buildups are (these can be predicted in fluid dynamics, or your A/V expert can test to isolate all the modal freqs and where their antinodes land before spec'ing the acoustic treatments).

Soffit mounting LCRs in this way pretty much rules out use of spkrs with ports or ABRs on the rear, top, btm or side panels. No need to focus on freestanding spkrs for this theater-specific application, though. There are some wonderfully effective in-cabinet LCRs out there (the behind-the-screen location means you pay only for a sprayed black utility finish, not furniture-type edges, veneers and lacquers), and even some worthy in-wall types, too.

Hope that helps, sorry if it's a rehash, and, hey, it'd be nice to experience it in its fully glory when it's all tuned up!

--Keith

adammb

05-25-10, 04:32 PM

jscifres

05-25-10, 04:37 PM

Would you mind sharing more info regarding the love seats? (make, model, etc)

I might end up having to go that route and really like you choice of color/style.

The front row chairs are very comfortable recliners with some nice features (moveable headrest, neat recline features, etc). They are from the Stressless product line by Ekornes. Mine are the stressless SPACE (the widest seat available - which is wide enough for two guys to feel comfortable sitting next to each other) and HIGHBACK (the seatback has the moveable headrest). They have one or two seat options which are slightly narrower if you have space constraints... I think the ARION is the narrowest.

Here's the link to the love seat, then I used a sector table (wedge shaped) for the middle unit.

http://www.ekornes.com/us/stressless/stressless_sofas/stressless-space3/

jscifres

05-25-10, 04:44 PM

Be careful on how deep that is. Mine is 8 feet deep but has power recliners and I am 6'5" and I still have to move my feet when reclined to let people through. I do have my chairs about 12" away from the rear wall.

Well, I already have the couch (it's not reclining, you know) for the back row, and when I measured myself sitting on the couch, in lounge position, I'm only like 5'6" deep. Typically, 6' is the bare minimum depth for a riser to use a recliner, but without a reclining couch and the extra 8 inches to each side of the middle seats, I foresee no need for anyone to ever move a muscle for a fellow man. :D

jscifres

05-25-10, 04:50 PM

+1. I might even consider changing my signature ;)

Moggie, I just read your signature... FUNNY!!!! :D

jscifres

05-25-10, 05:03 PM

Thanks for the input, Keith. I just engaged my equipment guy (Brian) on this question and I think we will be sticking with the Axioms after all. So I apologize for the false alarm, started by my little brother! :) Though, I did enjoy looking up those speakers that people shared (personal favorites were the Platinum line by Monitor Audio)

With Brian's careful guidance on placement, Mario IS going to doctor up the screen wall and/or the speakers themselves to 'pretty' them up. It should be fun to see what they come up with.

autoboy70

05-25-10, 07:26 PM

Sounds like I jumped the gun, but at least I got you to start thinking about that screen wall again. I was a bit concerned when you said you planned on leaving the axioms out in the open cause they aren't the prettiest things in my setup either. I love em, but the standard black finish is "standard." Nothing about your room is standard.

http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee344/autoboy70/IMG_0814.jpg

Elill

05-25-10, 07:48 PM

Thats a nice armchair you've got there - shame to jam it in the corner like that

jscifres

05-25-10, 07:50 PM

Sounds like I jumped the gun, but at least I got you to start thinking about that screen wall again. I was a bit concerned when you said you planned on leaving the axioms out in the open cause they aren't the prettiest things in my setup either.

I don't know why, but they just aren't bugging me that much. But still, Mario has some ideas to jazz it up. We'll see what that means in the coming weeks.

autoboy70

05-25-10, 08:13 PM

I don't know why, but they just aren't bugging me that much. But still, Mario has some ideas to jazz it up. We'll see what that means in the coming weeks.

That's because you haven't put your hands on them at my house yet. I'd consider some of the options these guys are offering up as well.

The armchair is a very expensive way to cover up my SVS sub back there in the corner. :)

Elill

05-25-10, 08:29 PM

Ah fair enough - its very nice nevertheless

KeithYates

05-26-10, 02:19 AM

hanesian

05-28-10, 12:28 AM

But still, Mario has some ideas to jazz it up.

Mario has some ideas?! I'm shocked!! :eek::eek:

NOT!!

I can't wait to see what Mario the Magnificent comes up with next! Pass the popcorn.

MARIOARTS

05-28-10, 11:48 PM

So now that the rizer is in it's time to add the deck and finish off the baseboard. The design included a stage under the screen that would have the same down-lit baseboard to match the room. The challenge was to do a 8 foot rounded center, and that was going to require special handling in order to make the curve. The only way to do that is to laminate several layers on the curve. You can NEVER have enough clamps.
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/curvedstage700X900.jpg
I hope everyone has a great holiday weekend.
Thanks for watching the thread.

MARIOARTS

06-02-10, 12:16 AM

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/wallart.jpg
A little something for the side walls. On a skill level of 1 to 10, this took about a 14. The effect will be very subtle but I hope worth every drop of effort. It was made from a combo of 1 inch and 1/2 inch MDF.

indygreg

06-02-10, 12:31 AM

as an amature woodworker i can say that it would definitely take some skill to make ... one of those :)

greg

DavidinCT

06-04-10, 06:18 PM

as an amature woodworker i can say that it would definitely take some skill to make ... one of those :)

greg

I've been thinking the same thing through this whole thread....

Awsome work

Leifashley27

06-04-10, 06:30 PM

SUUUUUUUUUUUUB-scribed!

Mario you're doing some pretty amazing work. I haven't seen some of these techniques before.

Can't wait to see the finished product!

MARIOARTS

06-05-10, 10:03 PM

SUUUUUUUUUUUUB-scribed!

Mario you're doing some pretty amazing work. I haven't seen some of these techniques before.

Can't wait to see the finished product!

Welcome to the thread and thank you for your comments. No matter what I do, I always try to find a new hook. It's like a treasure hunt to find something that hasn't been done yet.
Just an FYI, I wasn't trying to boast about the skill level. The task truly caught me by surprise and I was challenged (big time) to pull it off. I've done this technique before but not to this level. You got to love a challenge.

Mfusick

06-06-10, 12:48 PM

wow looks good

MARIOARTS

06-06-10, 09:50 PM

So From This.......................................................
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/curvedstage700X900.jpg
To This........................................................
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/CurvedStageSectionSmall.jpg
The baseboard was finished this weekend and is ready to install.
But I couldn't wait to see it lit so I fired it up at the shop.

The shot you're looking at is the curved section of the front stage. The entire room will have this effect for a total of around 70 feet of rope light. That's why I needed about 775 feet of 3/8" wide molding to make it happen. The baseboard will be burning about 210 watts of indirect light and will be controlled by it's own dimmer. This will be seperate from the step lighting so that the baseboard can be dimmed or off while leaving the steps lit for moving safely around the room in the dark.

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/BaseboardCloseUpSmall.jpg
This is just a close up

xzener

06-06-10, 10:52 PM

That looks AMAZING!! Cant wait to see the final product.

DavidinCT

06-07-10, 01:44 PM

WOW....just...WOW

cuzed2

06-07-10, 04:57 PM

Damn,

That look is awesome - I am also subscribed and wanting to see more :)

cuzed2

06-07-10, 05:30 PM

That last post was understated. I just went back and reviewed the whole build >> UNBELIEVABLE - FANTASTIC.

Mario is thee Man !!

MARIOARTS

06-07-10, 10:36 PM

That last post was understated. I just went back and reviewed the whole build >> UNBELIEVABLE - FANTASTIC.

Mario is thee Man !!

THANK YOU.
All your comments are really very encouraging.
You know when I get out in the shop behind a saw or a router I sometimes loose the real world. Just trying to do it right.
So when I read your comments I'm energized and really appreciate hearing from you.
I thought I'd explain what the H_ _ L the weird shape is all about.

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/wallsculpture.jpg

I've got a few shots of the progression of the process if anybody is interested, let me know and I'll post them and try to explain the steps.

warrenP

06-07-10, 10:53 PM

I hope you own stock in the clamp company... either that or own it!

Lightngsvt

06-09-10, 12:18 AM

Words fail me!!!!

jscifres

06-09-10, 12:29 AM

I don't have a picture of it, but right now Mario is working on the not so glamorous task of filling the riser with insulation. I feel for the guy!

MARIOARTS

06-09-10, 10:16 PM

The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. - Thomas Paine!

Thomas was right.............no Paine...............no Gaine.

AndreasMergner

06-11-10, 10:01 AM

I've got a few shots of the progression of the process if anybody is interested, let me know and I'll post them and try to explain the steps.

I'd like to see them. :)

Some of these things you're doing would be good work for a CNC, although I'm not sure you would save all that much time after programming each piece in CAD then CAM. There's something to be said for creating a design on paper or wood on the fly.

MARIOARTS

06-12-10, 09:00 PM

I'd like to see them. :)

Some of these things you're doing would be good work for a CNC, although I'm not sure you would save all that much time after programming each piece in CAD then CAM. There's something to be said for creating a design on paper or wood on the fly.

Thank you for your interest AndreasMergner,
Nothing would have been more of a pleasure than to send this out to my CNC department which seems like another lifetime ago. But that luxury has come and gone SOOOOOOOOO................here's how I did it.
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/1stcut.jpg
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/2ndcut.jpg
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/3rdcut.jpg
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/4thcut.jpg

Once again, thank you for your interest.

DavidinCT

06-12-10, 09:53 PM

I kind of had that Idea on how it was done (jigsaw) but, not sure if I could repo that (well, maybe after trying it on 3 or 4 for scrap first).

Very nice attention to detail. Looking forward for the progress.

AndreasMergner

06-13-10, 08:14 AM

Interesting technique. All because the jigsaw blade wanders.

So now I can see what it is going to look like. The comma will be standing out from the wall a little bit to let the light shine out from behind it. That will be a nice effect.

Mario, have you come up with a good way to finish machined MDF to a glossy, high quality finish? You are probably not doing it with this build, but I have a project that requires it.

Dennis Erskine

06-13-10, 08:59 AM

Mario, have you come up with a good way to finish machined MDF to a glossy, high quality finish?
Andreas - Mario seems to have tricks and experience up his sleeve we haven't heard of yet...very, very talented man. Should Mario not have a technique for you, we can do that in our paint booth. Just FYI.

MARIOARTS

06-13-10, 08:35 PM

Mario, have you come up with a good way to finish machined MDF to a glossy, high quality finish? You are probably not doing it with this build, but I have a project that requires it.

Hello Andreas,
Yes I do have a way.
The photos below are of a sculpture created for a car collector in Scottsdale AZ.
It is made entirely of MDF and foam with, of course, the exception of the lens caps.
Notice the reflection of the hood ornament on the hood.
I consider it a trade secret so if you email me I will tell you about it.
mario@marioarts.com.

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/bd-jpg1.jpg
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/bd-jpg3.jpg

hardmoneylender

06-14-10, 12:04 AM

Thanks. Although I'm not physically building the theater, I've been very hands on throughout and know more about what's going into this theater than the average non-DIY owner. That said, so much of the design direction was left very open so that my guy could flex some creative muscle. That was a not so insignificant leap of faith in the beginning for the control freak in me... (I amassed hundreds of pictures of home theaters to identify what I liked back when I was considering a DIY project) but I couldn't be happier turning the reigns over to someone who I'm confident cares as much about the room as I do.

I am not easily impressed, but my mouth is agape. Holy cow, I could not have even imagined half this stuff, much less figured out a way to build it. Wow, Wow, WOW!!

MARIOARTS

06-14-10, 12:06 AM

Andreas - Mario seems to have tricks and experience up his sleeve we haven't heard of yet...very, very talented man. Should Mario not have a technique for you, we can do that in our paint booth. Just FYI.

Dennis,
Thank you.
Mario

Lightngsvt

06-14-10, 09:06 PM

Your talents do not cease to amaze!!! You work is beyond incredible.

MARIOARTS

06-14-10, 09:37 PM

Your talents do not cease to amaze!!! You work is beyond incredible.

Thank you for your comments. It is both encouraging and energizing. I truly love what I do and no doubt I'm in my own world but there is a joy and sense of accomplishment when I first choose to reach for something design wise that is stretching the boundaries and then embark on the journey to achieve it.
I am humbled by your appreciation for my work. Thank you .................................... TRULY THANK YOU.
I have completed the rizer and have installed the flooring. I hope to be able to begin the basebaord installation in the next couple of days. I am now working on the side wall panels, art, and back wall sculpture. I guess I could post a couple a steps of the wall panels.
Mario

MARIOARTS

06-14-10, 10:22 PM

So there will be six side wall panels. These will be used for both lighting effects and acoustic treatment. The first step was to make the interior curved wall panels. Two of these panels will be shorter to compensate for the rizer height.

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/Wall1small.jpg

A 1/8" face is then glued to the curved ribbs to form a platform to apply the foam and fabric treatment.

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/Wall2small.jpg

This is the back plate which will be the main structural support and provide lighting reflectors as well as an additional lighting effect. (I love lighting effects).

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/Wall3small.jpg

The rope light is now installed.

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/Wall4small.jpg

The foam is installed to the facia.

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/Wall5small.jpg

And then the fabric is stretched and stapled to the structure.

http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/ae170/marioarts_photos/Wall6small.jpg